Tuesday, 2011-11-29

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SageStskeeps: how can I remove one of my submits from gerrit?05:22
Sageis there any way for that?05:22
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StskeepsSage: click abandon change06:11
SageWhere is taht? :D06:18
SageStskeeps: maybe only you can see it?06:18
Stskeepsnext to diff all-side-by-side in the patch set?06:29
Stskeepsscreenshot me your view?06:31
Stskeepsabandon means you give up completely, even uploading a new patchset06:34
Stskeepsone positive thing about the OBS upgrade06:37
Stskeepsbuild logs in DBC statements now show06:37
* Sage was really waiting for that06:40
SageI'm checking the ca-certificates package again06:41
Sagedropping the java stuff out from latest fedora so it shoudl build ok.06:43
Sagewe probabl ydon't need /etc/pki/java anyway in mer atm.06:43
Sagehttps://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=ca-certificates&project=home%3Asage%3AMer%3AMW%3AShared \o/06:43
Sagemight be the package we want in mer after that is tested06:43
Sagesame as in fedora but without the java stuff06:44
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iekkuvgrade, congrats07:08
iekkui want a new job also :/07:08
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kyb3Riekku: still at bug related work?07:08
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* timoph starts a new job on thursday07:08
iekkukyb3R, yes please07:08
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iekkukyb3R, or qa07:08
Stskeepskyb3R: i just had a mental picture of iekku with a flamethrower and alien bugs running away..07:09
kyb3RI always mix the terminology :)07:13
timophStskeeps: you pinged the other day?07:13
iekkuStskeeps, that would be SO cool! :D07:13
Stskeepstimoph: yes, i was wondering about something related to qa tools and realized it was all documented :P07:13
Stskeepstimoph: which is erm, pretty unusual in OSS07:13
iekkuStskeeps, can I wear tank girl type of clothing :P07:13
Stskeepsiekku: i'm not allowed to imagine girls in tank girl clothing, sorry, married ;)07:13
iekkustarted to laugh here and today i'm 2 office07:13
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kyb3RStskeeps: :)07:16
kyb3Rthis is some basics07:16
* w00t yawns07:16
w00tmoin all07:16
timophkyb3R: at NF today?07:17
kyb3Rtimoph: at the moment and for the rest of the day07:17
timophI think I'll head there to kill time07:17
kyb3Rlunch time around noon :)07:18
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timophhmmh. googling for mer on n810 finds a bit old news :)07:25
Stskeepswe're not terribly high in google results just yet07:26
timophalso found a finnish review of n810 that says it's the travellers dream device while searching07:28
Stskeepsit is still, somewhat07:28
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timophI was thinking of doing a n8x0 tetris so that one device == one block07:31
timophdunno if I can find enough n8x0s though07:32
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SageStskeeps: was there a known reason why armv7l repository is a bit slower than others?07:57
SageStskeeps: in obs it seems to take minutes it to recalculate state and others are fine in 10s or so07:58
Stskeepsarmv7el has three different ports in it07:58
Stskeepswhile i486/i586 only has two07:58
Stskeepsso it will take more load than those07:59
Sagebut there is still only one arch in repository08:01
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Stskeepsyeah, but scheduler works linearly, so some things may be queued up elsewhere08:03
SageI'm still not convinced as it is always the armv7l repo and not arvm7hl or armv6l08:05
Stskeepsthe other side of it is that we can switch to solvstate, which is faster08:05
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elfiohello there08:37
Stskeepshey :) so what brings you here?08:38
elfioi would like know something else about mer08:39
Stskeepsask away :)08:39
elfioI didn't found any news about him08:40
elfioand I would like to know the state of develop or something08:40
Stskeepsyeah, our homepage is a bit lackluster, hang on08:40
elfioI want mer in my phone :p08:40
Stskeepsthat should be a good start08:41
elfioI knew about the wiki08:41
elfiobut not about the mail list08:42
Stskeeps:nod: it's a bit hidden away08:42
Stskeepshttp://review.merproject.org/ , All->Merged is also quite nice to show progress08:42
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Stskeepsremember Mer's just a core, for more shiny things like UIs, you'd follow plasma active, Nemo, etc08:43
elfiohave you got a twitter or identi.ca account or something like that?08:43
Stskeepsnah.. but follow twitter.com/stskeeps and twitter.com/vgrade and other people08:44
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Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQLIjcYAMU is one of my favourite videos as of late08:46
elfioand what about tizen?08:46
elfiodo you share the core with them?08:46
Stskeepsthey haven't published any code yet, architecture08:46
Stskeepsso it's a bit hard to tell if we are08:46
Stskeepsbut honestly, if we all work together in upstream projects like connman, ofono, gcc, glibc.. then we do share a lot08:47
Stskeepswe're hoping to eventually have the tizen app story (html5+WAC) also supported in mer, but with a qt runtime08:48
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Stskeepsso, are you a user or a hacker?08:49
elfioi wish have a linux mobile one day...08:49
elfiothe videos looks good08:50
elfiowith future08:50
elfiomy english is not very good :p08:50
Stskeepsit's fine, i've seen worse08:51
Stskeepsjust remember mer isn't only handsets, we hope to see people do everything from tablets to interactive busstops with it08:55
elfioit would be awesome08:55
elfioi hate nokia a bit08:56
elfiofor left out meego08:56
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Stskeepsmeego had it's own share of problems, but at least it made us able to have a solid base to build Mer on08:56
elfiothe N9 was wonderful... haha08:57
elfiowhere do you test the core?08:58
Stskeepsa lot of different places08:58
elfioor a virtual machine08:58
Stskeepswe don't have hardware adaptations and UIs in the mer core, so we let people who actually are customers of the core help test things08:58
Stskeepsso we signal when something needs to be tested, and they'll feed back08:58
Stskeepsso we test on N900, N950, N9, beagleboard, exopc, ideapad, etc08:59
Stskeepstegra2 tablets, raspberry pi ...08:59
elfioI admire you and your work09:00
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elfioI hope the core grow up and become a good core09:00
elfioto use everywhere09:00
elfioI have to go09:01
elfioGood luck!09:01
Stskeepssee you09:01
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lbtmorning all09:15
Stskeepsmorn lbt, jukka09:16
iekkuhe is alive!09:18
* slaine yawns and stretches09:18
slaineman I need a coffee09:19
slainetime to kick off a sync of fakeobs09:20
jukkaeklundwho is alive, not me..09:20
slainehmmm, did the fakeobs urls change while I was off ?09:21
Stskeepsslaine: yeah, we've been moving around a bit and putting things in their final place09:22
Stskeepsslaine: git remote add gerrit http://review.merproject.org/p/mer/release-tools09:23
Stskeepsgit pull gerrit master09:23
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timophStskeeps: about the tools docs. Might make sense to move things related to them to somewhere else from meego wiki09:23
slaineStskeeps: cheers, only changes seem to be to createrelease.sh09:24
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Stskeepsslaine: hmm, nothing in Makefile with releases.merproject.org etc?09:25
slainethat was based on the git pull output09:25
Stskeepsjust verify monster.tspre.org isn't mentioned anywhere ;)09:25
Stskeepsmight have to re-clone Core09:26
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slainerunning make atm09:26
* lbt keeps an eye out for alterego....09:27
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mgrover_anybody ever tried nemo on the N9?09:59
jukkaeklundworks great09:59
mgrover_great thank you10:01
mgrover_ill be trying that soon if i win this bid10:01
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Stskeepsa nice junior job: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1510:37
Stskeeps(Bug 15 - Switch from libjpeg to libjpeg-turbo)10:37
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slainethink I'm gonna end up a coffee fiend today10:52
* slaine goes and gets another one10:53
w00tStskeeps: https://github.com/special/qjpeg-turbo is also worth investigation10:54
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SageStskeeps: Am I counted as junior?10:57
StskeepsSage: dunno, if you have spare time ;)10:57
dcthangMaybe senior can't solve a junior's problem :P10:59
* Sage ponders if he should upgrade from f15->f16 or just reinstall the f16.10:59
* Sage is hopin that the USB behaviour would improve with the update.11:00
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Stskeepslbt: could you op merbot in #mer-meeting ?11:10
lbttrying... /op MerBot #mer-meeting11:10
Stskeepsmsg chanserv op11:11
StskeepsANNOUNCE: Nemo steering group meeting in #mer-meeting now (timezones suck)11:13
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Jucato(oh didn't know there was a steering group already. nice one!)11:50
jukkaeklundfor nemo, yes11:51
Jucatooh right right ... I needs moar coffee to read  properly >.<11:52
Stskeepswe should kickstart mer governance soon though11:52
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Sagephaeron: http://pastie.org/293830412:16
Sagephaeron: ah, http:// missing ;)12:17
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Sagephaeron: fixed bootstrap ;)12:18
Sagephaeron: there are couple of things missing in mer core but enabling boostrap building is just a oneliner12:19
phaeronSage: ok we have a mic build in the MINT repos. do an SR towards that and then I'll upgrade the one on the imager vm12:20
phaeronthen we can test it later12:20
Sagethat line prevents the bootstrap being created12:20
Sagehowever, these packages might be a problem later on creating images12:21
Sagephaeron: http://pastie.org/293832512:21
phaeronSage: wasn't there a workaround where it linked the host mic2 into the bootstrap ?12:21
Sagephaeron: that is still used, but is still wants to install the mic from the repo as well ;)12:22
phaeronSage: can we maybe force non bootstrap mode12:22
phaeronah arm12:22
Sageyes, arm we can't :)12:23
phaeronyeah I remembered12:23
Sagehowever, if you check those packages that in the last pastie12:23
Sagethe ones missing are mainly used on x8512:23
Sagelike, syslinux, btrfs, genisoimage etc.12:23
phaeronSage: only wget makes sense12:24
Sagephaeron: urlgrapper?12:24
phaeronwasn't there some hardcoded usage ? or was that fixed ?12:24
phaeronpython-zypp ?12:25
phaeronuse yum ?12:25
Sagewell then yum package should get that dep12:25
Sagewe should not drag it explicitly12:25
Sagebut need to test that a bit more and check if any of those are actually needed12:26
phaeronpython-zypp is used to to talk to zypper , but you use yum right ?12:26
Sageyes, well... we should use zypp but there are problems thus using yum :/12:27
phaeronlast I checked python-zypp has problems with groups and my question on the mailing list was never answered12:28
Sagepython-zypp has many problems :/12:28
SageI got some mail of one maintainer or something saying that it was being merged to some other package or something12:28
phaeronthen yum it is for now12:30
Sagelibzypp-binding = python-zypp?12:30
phaeronyeah src and bin12:31
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Stskeepswe should probably use -binding instead then12:33
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SageStskeeps: python-zypp and the libzypp-bindings are the same things from the looks of it.12:35
Sagewe should just update the packages12:36
Sagephaeron: what is a bit odd is that mic boostrap doesn't install yum to the bootstrap.12:42
Sagephaeron: or, hmm.. might be a mic2 dep and thus it is not there12:42
Sageyup, mic2 depends on yum12:48
Sageand many other things12:48
SageName:       mic12:49
SageSummary:    image creator for Linux distributions12:49
SageName:       mic212:50
SageSummary:    Tools for building images for MeeGo12:50
phaeronI think we should look into kiwi :D12:51
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Sagehmmp... they have really cleaned it up quite a bit12:54
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* lbt mumbles something about "told you so"12:59
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phaeronlbt: about what ?14:59
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Stskeepslbt: looks like agilebrowser guy is updating the documentation15:32
lbtyeah - this morning15:34
Stskeepsi should really do a run of agilebrowser on mer at some point..15:34
lbtI kinda downgraded the priortity given there's not even a redistribution license15:35
lbtand I'm really dubious about "hey, download and run this exe from a wiki"15:36
lbt"as root"15:36
Stskeepsi don't think it's an exe, it's a jar, and i don't think it requires root15:36
Stskeepsbut yeah, same evil ;)15:36
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lbtyeah - it could have been a different one - I installed AB and I think there was another tool that I skipped15:38
lbt"longer-term plan is to contribute the code as a proper Foundation tool package"  ... I forget whether Symbian is OSS or not nowadays15:39
Stskeepsit's well, dead15:39
* Stskeeps checks something15:40
lbtso's meego :)15:40
lbthe seems to be a bit of a necropheliac when it comes to OSes15:40
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Stskeepsanyway.. what other alternatives do we have?15:42
lbtwhich approximates to "nothing"15:42
Stskeepsokay, anything involving qt..15:43
Stskeepsi wonder if we could simply export this into qt15:44
Stskeepser, qml15:44
lbtI worry that it's more shine than substance15:45
Stskeepswell, think about it.. dependancy graph exported into qml15:47
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Stskeepsah, he's on twitter15:49
* Stskeeps sends a mesage15:49
lbtyep - you'd get the visual of it but not much interogation15:54
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lbtdoing a mount --bind into the wrong place in an obs build hurts16:36
Stskeepsdon't say it was on CI16:37
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Stskeepslbt: http://pastie.org/pastes/2939429/text16:40
Stskeepslittle fuzzy on 'prerelease' as you already see that in proposed changes16:41
lbtnah .. here16:41
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lbt"update the Core"  ??16:43
Stskeepsokay, as in, update packages.xml16:43
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Stskeepscore == mer/project-core16:44
lbtwhat OBS projects exist here16:44
lbtand how do they relate to ongoing builds by BOSS in CI16:44
Stskeepsright, perhaps it'd be good to scheme that out better16:44
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lbta release is a release from the Mer Release System - ie a published OBS repo with corresponding sha1s  from git for pkgs16:45
lbtset of published repos16:45
Stskeepsright, definitions could be good16:46
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lbtPickup is essentially a snapshot then?16:48
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Stskeepsso, in core i have a 'pickupchanges' thing in Makefile .. what it does is that it checks what is latest commit in each of the packages (ie, merged changes) and updates the sha in packages.xml to correspond to the new commit16:50
Stskeepseffectively bringing the package to a new version16:50
Bostikthat approach sounds... familiar16:51
lbtwhy the rebuild ?16:53
Stskeepswell, rebuild or localdep, either one, but the idea is to make sure we're not entering crap into master16:54
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lbtdidn't BOSS do that already ?16:54
lbton a per-package commit-by-commit basis16:54
Stskeepsyes, but there can be evil interactions16:55
Stskeepstwo independent changes can conflict, so we need to stop them there16:55
lbtjust wondering why we don't just pause BOSS, wait for quiet, validate clean and cp -a16:55
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lbtand is the answer to improve the acceptance process rather than work around it in the release?16:56
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Stskeepsyeah, took a walk and you're right, we need a more efficient procedure17:11
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lbtI will add.... (and not just to be difficult!) .... what happens when a vendor needs a fix? ie they hit something in pre-release that impacts release.17:29
lbtit suggests to me that a pickup is nominally a branch point17:29
lbt'master' carries on but somehow we need to cherry pick (or exclude) from master17:30
Stskeepsso, let's say we have a OBS repo that corresponds always to master, and one that is sketch area17:31
lbtsketch.... == release-candidate?17:31
Stskeepswell, think trunk:testing17:32
Stskeepsa pickup of changes17:33
Stskeepsie, can we move this into master17:33
Stskeepsand then a release is some tag eventually of master17:33
lbtI think releases would logically come from a mini-stabilishing-branch17:34
lbtI think that's what your pastie describes17:34
lbt"Release consists of the prerelease with eventual fixes and pulled out changes"17:34
lbtwhich is sane17:35
lbtit even permits continuation of an arbitrary 'release' as a stable release17:35
lbtif someone wants to17:35
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* Stskeeps ponders how to model that sanely18:00
lbta text file containing sha1s ? many files? a git submodule tree18:08
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Stskeepsone of my ideas is that we somehow can provide ability to +1 / -1 for vendors in gerrit, but that might be difficult18:20
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Stskeepslbt: yeah, something's behaving really weird in VM's18:36
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lbthorrid isn't it18:36
lbtseems to be related to openvpn load - but it's in the VM I think as even ssh tunnels exhibit it18:37
vgradeStskeeps, there was a pdf of OBS devel process created for training at nokia, I can't find it.18:37
vgradeStskeeps, any idea where it is, I seem to recall on wiki18:37
Stskeepsvgrade: i think we have two..18:37
Stskeepsi know of a set lbt and co has done, another was the training material we brought CE people up to speed with18:38
vgradethe second one I was looking for18:38
vgradeit was a pdf18:38
Stskeepshttp://wiki.meego.com/images/Meegokickoff.pdf ?18:39
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Stskeepshttp://en.opensuse.org/images/d/df/Obs-cheat-sheet.pdf also looks useful18:41
Stskeeps(thanks javier)18:41
vgradeStskeeps, thats the one, thanks. Its for a Plasma dev who was asking18:41
javieryw :)18:41
Stskeepslbt: the training material for OBS classes, was that ever public?18:42
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lbtit was intended to be - you'd have to ask phaeron now18:42
phaeronno it isn't, but it could be opened if it is still useful / not outdate18:42
Stskeepsmm, i could take a look at some point i guess to assess that18:44
phaeronStskeeps: did you look into imager ? any comments ?18:44
Stskeepsphaeron: i haven't gotten that far just yet sadly, stuck on release process right now :)18:45
lbtI was going to suggest using some of Stefan's HW for an IMG deployment18:45
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Stskeepsyeah, a likely target18:46
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Stskeepsphaeron: my intent is basically to wire it into the gerrit process18:47
Stskeepsie, the one running in BOSS18:47
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phaeronsounds cool18:48
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Stskeepslbt: it's not possible to do a obs bs_admin --clone-repository through OBS API is it?18:49
lbtnot afaik18:49
phaeronor wrap it in a participant18:50
phaeronobs_admin participant18:51
Stskeepsso, maybe you can help brainstorm: the description of Mer's Core:ARCH OBS projects are in one git tree. Two types of changes usually go in: adjustments to packages.xml and changes to prjconf(s)18:51
phaeronbut would need some auth18:51
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Stskeepswe need to have a weekly release process going18:52
Stskeepsand pre-releases and fixing some things/pulling out some changes18:52
Stskeepschanges are typically changing which SHA1/commit a package consists of, in a packages.xml18:52
Stskeepsideally we need to be able to gather input from the vendor community on if a prerelease is good or bad18:53
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phaerondo you really expect such fast feedback from vendors ?19:04
Stskeepsi'm hoping to make tools to give preliminary results19:04
Stskeepsie, deltas in failures, etc19:04
Stskeepskeep in mind there's no 'internal' projects in mer like UIs or hardware adaptations19:05
Stskeepsso there's two levels of subscription19:05
Stskeepsright away, or after 48 hours if the first tiers didn't vote it down19:05
phaeronusing bugzilla for example you can count bugs against a certain pre-release19:06
phaeronor are you thinking more lightweight like vote count19:06
Stskeepsgenerally just to gain feedback before pressing the release button19:06
Stskeepsif a prerelease gives us a lot of red results, something is up19:06
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Stskeepsand we need to dive into why it happens19:07
phaeronthen maybe a simple thumbs up / down page attached to a repo that keeps count ..19:08
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phaeronif we expect vendors to automate the release importing , then some script can report back "red" (failed test for example) to that page using some api19:10
phaeronand vendors should be automating things as we all know :D19:10
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Stskeepsthe idea is to make fakeobs more intelligent and configureable19:13
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berndhsyes and get a better name for it19:18
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berndhsfakeobs provides a real service, it shouldn't have this degrading name :)19:20
smokuobs-git ?19:21
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Stskeepsberndhs: mer delivery system19:50
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berndhsyes that sounds better20:01
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smokuhow do I resolve?20:34
smokuhave choice for pkgconfig(egl): mesa-libEGL-devel pvr-omap4-libEGL-devel, have choice for pkgconfig(glesv1_cm): mesa-libGLESv1-devel pvr-omap4-libGLESv1-devel20:34
Stskeepsand keep hardware adaptations and UI seperate for your own sanity's sake20:36
Stskeepsyou should only build against the mesa GLES/EGL headers anyway20:36
smokuI build against Mer:fake:Core:armv7l/Core_armv7l + Project:KDE:Mer_Extras/Mer_Extras_armv7l20:38
smokuI didn't expect Mer_Extras to bring conflicts20:38
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smokuStskeeps: are you sure "Prefer:" is valid?  I can't find it in documentation20:45
smokualso spectacle does not like it20:45
smokuthere is BuildConflicts: though20:47
smokui will try that20:47
smokunope :/20:50
Sagesmoku: you need to have that prefer in project conf20:51
Sagesmoku: it is not spectacle/rpm/spec thing20:51
Sageosc meta prjconf project20:51
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vgradelbt, cobs down for me atm22:57
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vgradeok, have a status page now, but very slow, looks very busy23:01
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vgradeworkers maxed since 16:0023:02
lbtyeah - looks like we "just" have a big queue - I guess rzr is doing a build23:05
vgradelbt, ok, thanks,23:06
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mingwandroidvgrade: I tried to boot my vega with where I left off (PA running), but it didn't play ball.. not sure what's going on there.23:09
lbtvgrade: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan23:10
vgradelbt, yikes23:11
lbtand those are non cross- builds .. so *sloooow*23:12
vgradelbt, looking forward to the new infra23:13
lbtit's not going to be as powerful as c.obs ... probably not by a long way - but it's more dedicated to Mer/Nemo23:14
vgradewhat have we got so far?23:14
vgradefor Mer/Nemo OBS23:15
lbt3x  4core 24Gb machines23:15
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lbtvs 16x 16 core 64Gb machines in c.obs23:15
lbtwell, that includes wiki/bz etc too - but we have to run them on the 3x23:16
vgradethe hetzner ones23:16
lbtI need to mail stefan too23:16
vgradebut cobs was not fully utilised23:18
vgradewell not until these harmatten builds :)23:19
lbtit goes through spikes23:19
lbtas you'd expect23:19
lbtI'm being asked "what do you need"23:19
lbtand it's hard to answer23:20
vgradedoes obs do any scheduling of small jobs vs bid harmatten style rebuilds23:20
vgradelbt, from swerden23:20
vgradewould EC2 help with the spikes?23:21
lbtnot easily23:23
lbtwe need nested virtualisation for that23:23
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