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| iekku_ | morning | 03:01 |
|---|---|---|
| GentSir | iekku_, morning mate | 03:08 |
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| krabador | it's possible to build it for try? | 04:18 |
| iekku_ | lbt, i can start to speak and write finnish to you if you prefer that :P | 04:23 |
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| situ | Morning | 05:16 |
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| GentSir | morning | 08:59 |
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| Jonni | morning | 09:10 |
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| niqt | morning | 09:17 |
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| GentSir | Guess all the Europeans are getting up | 09:18 |
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| niweber | GentSir: are you doing night-shifts? | 09:19 |
| GentSir | niweber, nah, I just don't sleep much | 09:20 |
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| GentSir | Sorry, forgot the "no English slang" rule. | 09:23 |
| lbt | iekku_: I think you should from time to time :D | 09:26 |
| GentSir | lbt, am I going to need to learn finnish? | 09:28 |
| lbt | seems reasonable ... I learnt 'thank you' | 09:28 |
| GentSir | Isn't it kiitos or kiitti? | 09:29 |
| Nicd- | both | 09:30 |
| GentSir | Where kittos is the more formal version, like "Thank you" in English, and kiitti is like saying "thanks" in nglish? | 09:31 |
| Nicd- | yes | 09:31 |
| GentSir | I can pick up programming languages easily, but I have a really hard time with spoken languages. I know in most of the world most people are taught two languages growing up, but here in the states we aren't. | 09:32 |
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| niqt | GentSir if you want I'll give Italian lessons :D | 09:38 |
| GentSir | niqt, I'm already obligated to learn German | 09:39 |
| GentSir | niqt, I took some spanish in secondary school, isn't Italian fairly similar? | 09:40 |
| niqt | the sounds are similar, but both talk a lot with gestures :) | 09:43 |
| GentSir | niqt, I live in the south of Florida and there's a large Mexican-American population. So a little Spanish goes a long way. | 09:44 |
| Yaniel | GentSir: it is 'kiitos' | 09:57 |
| Nicd- | or 'kiitti' | 09:57 |
| Nicd- | or 'kiits' or 'kitoooos' or 'kts' or 'kiitoksia' or 'kiitokset' or 'kiitän' or | 09:58 |
| Yaniel | don't get started with what is used on IRC :D | 09:58 |
| GentSir | Nicd-, is there really that much variation? That's what scares me about learning another spoken language, all the slang and cultural inflections I'll never be able to learn. | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | GentSir: the 3 last ones are formal, the rest are just slang / informal speech | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | and there's an infinite amount of informal speech in every language | 09:59 |
| Yaniel | the formal ones are in the end all 'kiitos' | 10:00 |
| Nicd- | except for 'kiitän' which is 'kiittää' | 10:00 |
| Yaniel | like 'thank you', 'thanks', 'you have my thanks' | 10:01 |
| Nicd- | but it's kind of different anyway | 10:01 |
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| GentSir | Nicd-:Yes, if I posted a log of a chat with a friend on Skype/Jabber I doubt many non-native speakers would be able to read it easily. I'm only 19, there're so many informal uses of English that I actually have to concentrate to use it correctly typing here. | 10:01 |
| Yaniel | I wonder if there is a #finnish :P | 10:01 |
| GentSir | I actually re-read everything I type here to correct minor grammar issues that have creeped into how I use English. | 10:02 |
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| iekku_ | lbt, hieno homma, aloitan nyt | 11:28 |
| lbt | kiitos ? | 11:28 |
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| phako | lbt: I think ole hyvää would be more correct. | 11:36 |
| phako | I think | 11:36 |
| lbt | *g* | 11:36 |
| phako | the finnish equivalent of "you're welcome" | 11:36 |
| phako | whatever that was ;) | 11:36 |
| Nicd- | ole hyvä | 11:37 |
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| GentSir | I finally had a great app idea! | 12:06 |
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| Stskeeps | oh? | 12:09 |
| GentSir | It's an api client for a game, that's all I'll say right now :) But I use a similar app daily on my Android phone | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 12:16 |
| GentSir | Stskeeps, do you know if Python scripts can be called by native apps? | 12:18 |
| GentSir | The interface will be exclusively Qt/QML, but I'm used to writing logic in Python | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | mm, it's better not to assume it | 12:23 |
| GentSir | I guess I'll have to learn how to do http requests directly within Qt then | 12:23 |
| GentSir | Better yet, all the hard application logic can just be done in C++ | 12:27 |
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| GentSir | Morpog_Mobile, morning mate | 12:40 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Morning all | 12:41 |
| GentSir | Morpog_Mobile, are you german? | 12:53 |
| Morpog_Mobile | Yep | 12:53 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | hello ! | 13:04 |
| GentSir | Sfiet_Konstantin, morning | 13:05 |
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| shmerl | Hi | 15:48 |
| shmerl | Stskeeps: Did Sailifish apply for Google's CalDAV/CardDAV form? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19gOLSlkTzHi-zub3BkMv7Ot0JMLPj4YSxJUBseGAMSg/viewform | 15:49 |
| shmerl | They are using whitelists now unfortunately. | 15:49 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: or Sailfish can implement Google calendar API | 15:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but dunno if guys at Jolla want to write it from scratch | 15:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I'm sure that there are libs to sync with Google calendar API | 15:50 |
| shmerl | I doubt it's a good idea - more proprietary APIs? | 15:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: http://code.google.com/p/qt-google-calendar/ | 15:51 |
| shmerl | Plus Cal(rd)DAV is planned to be supproted in Sailfish already. | 15:51 |
| shmerl | So no reason not to apply for whitelisting | 15:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: but you are depending on Google's will | 15:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and they might never reply to you | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | so better try all solutions | 15:52 |
| shmerl | You are depending on it either way. What it the status of that API? | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | including other API | 15:52 |
| shmerl | Is it open standard or some closed stuff? | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: no open standard at all | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | google stuff | 15:52 |
| shmerl | If the later - nothing is guaranteed anyway. | 15:52 |
| shmerl | So you rely on them not changing it or letting you use it at all. | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | well, if they close everything, then we can do nothing | 15:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | yeah, applying to whitelist is good | 15:53 |
| shmerl | CalDAV is not owned by them on the other hand | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but better use the google API as well | 15:53 |
| shmerl | Won't hurt to have more options of course. | 15:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | that's the idea | 15:53 |
| shmerl | I still don't get it, why they need to reinvent the wheel. | 15:54 |
| shmerl | Usually they don't do it. | 15:54 |
| Yaniel | what is this thing about anyways? | 15:54 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: well, it is not reinventing the wheel | 15:54 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it is about war vs ms | 15:54 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | just to piss ms even more | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | google don't care about other, they care about themselves | 15:55 |
| shmerl | CalDAV is IETF approved standard, so MS is irrelevant really here. | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and since MS is a threat | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they do anything to remove that threat | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and they know that consumers won't go away, they are too dependant of google | 15:55 |
| shmerl | I don't like this trend. | 15:55 |
| shmerl | Google becomes another Apple | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: it is relevant, because MS first pushed their exchange protocol vs google | 15:55 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but then google close it | 15:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | thinking that MS will not think about implementing caldav | 15:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but MS decided to do that | 15:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | so google decided to go beyond | 15:56 |
| shmerl | Yaniel: That's about syncing protocols for calendar and contacts. | 15:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | that's the idea, well, what I see | 15:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: I don't like that trend either | 15:56 |
| Yaniel | CalDAV is a nice protocol but why does it need to be restricted | 15:57 |
| shmerl | Yaniel: Google decided to restrict it. | 15:57 |
| shmerl | I have no idea why - selfish reasons probably | 15:57 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: yeah | 15:57 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | meanwhile, owncloud allow caldav, carddav sync | 15:57 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | is very nice | 15:58 |
| Yaniel | so "because f*** you" apparently | 15:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | use owncloud :) | 15:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | just lacking a mail client though | 15:58 |
| shmerl | Yeah, "don't use Google" is a good advice, but many rely on it already as you said | 15:58 |
| Yaniel | I was planning to setup radicale | 15:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: that's true, but there is also a trend to get rid of it | 15:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | little by little | 15:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and you can get rid of it | 15:58 |
| shmerl | I'm sure if they'll continue in this manner, more people will get rid of it. | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | you don't need it for your mails | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: it already started | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | like facebook | 15:59 |
| Yaniel | let's hope sailfish lives longer :) | 15:59 |
| shmerl | I just switched my XMPP from them to duckduckgo. | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Yaniel: :) | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: ddg is being better and better | 15:59 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | still slightly slow | 16:00 |
| Yaniel | that should not be a problem if Jolla stays adaptive | 16:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but soon, I will switch I think | 16:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I think one of the strength of Sailfish will be to be independant of all web ecosystem | 16:00 |
| shmerl | They have an XMPP server: https://duck.co/topic/duckduckgo-s-new-public-xmpp-jabber-service-on-dukgo-com | 16:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and be able to profit from all | 16:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: woow good news | 16:00 |
| Yaniel | good news indeed | 16:00 |
| shmerl | It's not even that new, I just found out about it now :) | 16:01 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: do you know where ddg gets money ? | 16:01 |
| shmerl | I'm not soure actually how they operate. | 16:01 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: because, like wikipedia, everything is nice | 16:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but they should have funding somewhere | 16:02 |
| shmerl | Sure. I saw them talking about it some time ago. | 16:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: is there video chat on ddg's server ? | 16:02 |
| shmerl | video chat in XMPP is client based (Jingle) | 16:02 |
| shmerl | It should work as is. | 16:03 |
| shmerl | Except for multiplexing for conferencing. | 16:03 |
| shmerl | This has two options - either full multuplexing on each client, like Muji does. | 16:03 |
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| shmerl | But it's heavy if you have low bandwidth. | 16:03 |
| shmerl | Other option was proposed by Jitsi team - a XEP for server multiplexing. | 16:04 |
| shmerl | Both aren't widely adopted yet. | 16:04 |
| shmerl | Pidgin for example doesn't support any conferencing yet. | 16:04 |
| shmerl | But 1:1 video is supported in many clients already. | 16:05 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: cool :) | 16:05 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | something to replace skype one day maybe | 16:05 |
| GentSir | I've been using a gmail address for the last 5 years, there's no way I could completely kick google | 16:05 |
| shmerl | GentSir: Just migrate your e-mail :) | 16:05 |
| shmerl | And set up forwarding if you need to. | 16:06 |
| GentSir | shmerl, migrate it where? | 16:06 |
| shmerl | Anywhere you wish. | 16:06 |
| GentSir | It's a PITA to run my own mail server. | 16:06 |
| shmerl | There are enough e-mail providers if you want to switch | 16:06 |
| shmerl | It's the question of trust. | 16:06 |
| shmerl | I'd say Google isn't the worst. | 16:06 |
| shmerl | But they aren't the best either | 16:06 |
| GentSir | Anything important that goes through my gmail is encrypted | 16:06 |
| shmerl | Sure, then it doesn't matter much which server you use. | 16:07 |
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| Yaniel | most shell providers also provide email so you get email + ssh access which is nice | 16:07 |
| GentSir | It's impossible for me to use the webmail for gmail because of that, but it's worth the tradeoff | 16:07 |
| Yaniel | esp. if they allow irc clients on the shell | 16:07 |
| shmerl | I rarely use webmail. Mostly Thunderbird. | 16:07 |
| GentSir | I use Thunderbird on my desktop and laptop, and K-9 mail on my Android phone | 16:08 |
| GentSir | I've got it nicely setup with my keyrings, all my mail stored locally so I can search it, etc | 16:09 |
| shmerl | About video multiplexing proposals for XMPP see: http://xmpp.org/2013/03/jitsi-2-0-now-released/ | 16:09 |
| GentSir | Jitsi is cool, but Skype is the standard, and it's pretty much impossible to dislodge it for the casual users | 16:10 |
| shmerl | Here is about Muji approach: https://blogs.gnome.org/danni/2010/06/07/muji-multi-user-jingle/ | 16:10 |
| shmerl | I don't use Skype really. | 16:11 |
| shmerl | Can't say it's "standard". | 16:11 |
| GentSir | I have some contacts that use it exclusively, it's a pain | 16:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | interesting | 16:11 |
| GentSir | I'm using it right now | 16:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | seems to work :) | 16:11 |
| shmerl | Jitsi try to make a standard XEP for server solution, since Google as usual made proprietary stuff with "hangouts" that others can't use. | 16:13 |
| shmerl | I.e. server multiplexer for video. | 16:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: thanks ! | 16:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | now I know how to replace that MSN messenger stuff | 16:13 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | hello Naranek | 16:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | hello nsuffys | 16:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | how are you | 16:14 |
| GentSir | I'm all for open standards, it's a shame Google is going evil | 16:14 |
| shmerl | I hope Sailfish will have a decent XMPP client with video support :) | 16:15 |
| GentSir | shmerl, I'm sure somebody in the community will make it. That's the beauty of open source | 16:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | cool | 16:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | works also on the N9 :) | 16:17 |
| nsuffys | hi guys ! :) | 16:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | how are you ? | 16:17 |
| nsuffys | Sfiet_Konstantin, fine and you ? | 16:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | not a very long day nsuffys | 16:17 |
| GentSir | Sfiet_Konstantin, what works on the n9, Jitsi? | 16:17 |
| shmerl | nsuffys: Hi | 16:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | when will you make a vid about Sailfish on the Wetab | 16:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | GentSir: no, just plain jabber chat | 16:17 |
| shmerl | jabber chat works there with some hacks (using telepathy tools). | 16:18 |
| shmerl | I.e. the UI didn't support it by default | 16:18 |
| nsuffys | Sfiet_Konstantin, need a qwerty keyboard :/ | 16:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nsuffys: why ? :( | 16:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | shmerl: it works with the extra accounts stuff | 16:19 |
| nsuffys | can't connect with SSH on Sailfish on my Wetab | 16:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nsuffys: and the wetab do not have KBD ? | 16:21 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | hello fk_lx | 16:23 |
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| GentSir | Is there a list of hardware Sailfish is currently running on? | 16:27 |
| shmerl | I'd guess it's the same where you can port Mer and Nemo. | 16:27 |
| shmerl | Supposedly libhybris expands it even wider, but I didn't see many examples of that published. | 16:28 |
| GentSir | My N9 is getting shipped down from up north, but everyone dodges the question of Sailfish on the N9 | 16:29 |
| shmerl | You can take a look how Nemo can be run there. | 16:29 |
| shmerl | Sailfish probably would use exactly the same approach. | 16:29 |
| GentSir | I thought Sailfish was currently only x86 only? | 16:30 |
| GentSir | Drop that second "only" | 16:30 |
| shmerl | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N9 | 16:30 |
| shmerl | Images aren't released anyway. | 16:30 |
| Jonni | GentSir: sailfish OS does not currently run anywhere, as sailfish OS has not been released. Sailfish SDK runs publicly on x86 only. | 16:31 |
| shmerl | Jonni: I'm sure it's running somewhere for Sailfish developers internally :) | 16:31 |
| GentSir | shmerl, there are videos of it running on an N9 and I believe an N950, so it's certainly possible... | 16:31 |
| GentSir | But I understand the reason those images can't be released | 16:32 |
| Jonni | GentSir: but if armhf rootfs is released at some point, then community can port it on any device that they want to, like N950, N9, N900, [insert any armhf device here]. | 16:32 |
| shmerl | It should be. But so far it relies on older kernel. I don't think new kernel adaptation became functional. | 16:32 |
| GentSir | It's a shame Jolla isn't targeting the american market | 16:32 |
| shmerl | (I mean N9 one) | 16:32 |
| shmerl | They said it's because they want to avoid patents mess in the beginning - it's reasonable. | 16:33 |
| shmerl | US is a huge mess. | 16:33 |
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| GentSir | shmerl, our legal system is very lawsuit friendly | 16:34 |
| shmerl | But it still might be possible to buy it here. I'd worry about the warranty only. | 16:34 |
| shmerl | It's not jsut about lawsuit - it's about totally crooked patent law. | 16:34 |
| GentSir | I won't argue with that | 16:35 |
| GentSir | It's pretty much whoever has the deeper pockets wins | 16:35 |
| shmerl | N9 wasn't targeted for US either, but you could buy it on Newegg | 16:35 |
| shmerl | They just imported it somehow. | 16:35 |
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| GentSir | I know Jolla is going for an initial Chinese release, and luckily I have family there | 16:36 |
| GentSir | So I could get my uncle to buy it on my behalf and ship it | 16:36 |
| GentSir | Hopefully they're compatible with HSPA+ or american LTE bands | 16:36 |
| shmerl | They didn't comment on any frequencies yet. | 16:36 |
| shmerl | So no idea. | 16:37 |
| GentSir | I'm hoping they take the N9 approach | 16:37 |
| GentSir | Pack every frequency that can be supported in one device | 16:37 |
| shmerl | Preferably they should support a wide range of networks. | 16:37 |
| shmerl | Is it possible to support LTE and regular 3G GSM? | 16:37 |
| shmerl | Or they are mutually exclusive? | 16:38 |
| GentSir | GSM is GSM | 16:38 |
| shmerl | LTE is the next generation of GSM, right? | 16:38 |
| GentSir | GSM is exclusively for calls/texts | 16:38 |
| GentSir | It's the frequency the dumbphones of the olden days used | 16:38 |
| GentSir | 3g is HSPA | 16:39 |
| shmerl | I thought it's generic name for the standard. | 16:39 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | damn so much names | 16:39 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :s | 16:39 |
| GentSir | For the call/text standard | 16:39 |
| dm8tbr | geeze, just go read wikipedia on the stuff | 16:39 |
| GentSir | 3G is HSPA | 16:39 |
| dm8tbr | no it's not | 16:39 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | dm8tbr: I went ... | 16:39 |
| shmerl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM | 16:39 |
| GentSir | oh, my apologies | 16:40 |
| dm8tbr | HSPA is improved bandwith inside the 3G bracket | 16:40 |
| shmerl | I.e. I view LTE as GSM evolved. | 16:40 |
| dm8tbr | LTE is the next step after 3G | 16:40 |
| GentSir | HSPA+ was marketed as 4g by many american carriers | 16:41 |
| dm8tbr | which is exactly that. marketing | 16:41 |
| shmerl | all those 3/4g names are way confusing. | 16:41 |
| shmerl | Don't rely on them. | 16:41 |
| GentSir | I have an Atrix 2, and it displays my mobile connection as "4g" even though it only has an HSPA+ antenna and not an LTE one | 16:41 |
| dm8tbr | a _common_ evolution path would be: GSM → HSCSD → GPRS → EDGE → WCDMA → HSPA → HSPA+ → LTE | 16:42 |
| GentSir | Most people fall for the marketing though. Many a teenage girl believes the iPhone 4/s = 4G | 16:42 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | GentSir: iP5 = 5G ? | 16:43 |
| GentSir | Sfiet_Konstantin, I'm sure plenty believe that... | 16:43 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | you are running windows 8, I'mrunnign windows 98 | 16:43 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :P | 16:43 |
| GentSir | dm8tbr, that's how I always thought it went | 16:43 |
| shmerl | Standards are complex. I have no idea how most people figure it out easily and their frequencies as well. | 16:43 |
| shmerl | I mean non technical people. | 16:44 |
| GentSir | Sfiet_Konstantin, reminds me of how Firefox went to their rapid release cycle to "catch up" with the version numbers of Chomr | 16:44 |
| dm8tbr | drawing clear cuts between 2G and 3G and 4th generation is not quite easy | 16:44 |
| GentSir | *Chrome | 16:44 |
| GentSir | dm8tbr, I have a HAM license and I'm pretty adept at understanding the technical issues behind it. The marketing BS and FUD still confuses me sometimes. | 16:45 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | GentSir: well, that's a way of numbering | 16:45 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nor a problem | 16:45 |
| shmerl | dm8tbr: Does LTE mandate the usage of simcards? | 16:45 |
| GentSir | Sfiet_Konstantin: It just shows how people assume a higher version number means a better product | 16:45 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | GentSir: that's true at least | 16:45 |
| dm8tbr | shmerl: I haven't read the standard, but there must be some sort of secure subscriber module, so most likely | 16:45 |
| GentSir | shmerl, here in the states it does | 16:46 |
| shmerl | So in that sense it should be at least as flexible as 3G GSM, unlike CDMA which doesn't let switching providers. | 16:47 |
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| GentSir | Which is why I like HSPA/+, all the major carriers support it. The carriers that have LTE all operate on separate bands | 16:50 |
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| shmerl | T-Mobile is supposed to get LTE soon. | 16:54 |
| shmerl | I hope Jolla's hardware will support all LTE frequencies. | 16:55 |
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| GentSir | shmerl, I'm not sure how hard it is to do that | 16:59 |
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| shmerl | Hard to say - looks like there are lot's of frequencies there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks | 17:06 |
| shmerl | Good radio can support them all, but I have no idea how SoCs implement it. | 17:07 |
| GentSir | shmerl, LTE in the states it a mess. In the actual implementation, but more so from the legal standpoint | 17:08 |
| shmerl | How is it? | 17:08 |
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| GentSir | shmerl, the US is sue happy | 17:11 |
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| Stskeeps | evening thp | 17:24 |
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| thp | Stskeeps: hey ;) | 18:36 |
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