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| thomas_sch | I saw on https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Status/Matrix that the functionality of the n900 with wayland isn't yet tested?does this mean that there is no version yet that can boot it up or is there an image somewhere I could give a try/can I build it expecting it to show me something? :) | 00:38 |
|---|---|---|
| faenil | thomas_sch, you can ask vakkov the current status :) don't know if it boots already | 00:38 |
| sledges | thomas_sch: vakkov has an image | 00:38 |
| faenil | I heard he had issues with wifi at least | 00:38 |
| faenil | FIRST! lol | 00:38 |
| sledges | in the middle of the night ;) that's some support going on! :D | 00:39 |
| faenil | highfive! o/ | 00:39 |
| sledges | 7o | 00:39 |
| thomas_sch | :D | 00:39 |
| thomas_sch | happy to see you all so lively ;) I will ask vakkov as soon as he answers | 00:40 |
| faenil | cool :) | 00:40 |
| sledges | thomas_sch: you can also ping him on twitter (@crazybulgarian) so he senses more traction coming up ;) | 00:42 |
| * faenil follows | 00:44 | |
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| M4rtinK | I'd be quite interested what the performance of Wayland running on N900 is :) | 00:54 |
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| faenil | M4rtinK, did you see the perf on n9/n950? | 00:55 |
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| M4rtinK | faenil: on the N950 | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: pretty good I would say | 01:00 |
| faenil | really? :/ I'd say noticeably worse than nemo x11, + no vsync | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: and surprisingly stable, not a single crash even when trying silly stuff | 01:00 |
| faenil | (buggy vsync actually) | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: considerable improvement for Wayland given its buggy state even quite recently | 01:01 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: maybe I'm just less demanding :) | 01:01 |
| sledges | faenil is our >=60fps man ;) | 01:01 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: having "used" the Neo | 01:01 |
| faenil | no really guys :D | 01:02 |
| M4rtinK | faenil: and using N900 :) | 01:02 |
| faenil | I remember nemo x11 being much smoother | 01:02 |
| faenil | not saying nemo wayland is unusable | 01:02 |
| faenil | but when compositing, it's a lot worse | 01:02 |
| sledges | it was smoother, but are you suggesting to go back to x11? :) | 01:02 |
| faenil | not that subjective :D | 01:02 |
| faenil | sledges, well, I don't have experience with x11 (luckily, some would say), but since I heard many things lost mental sanity because of it, I won't :D | 01:03 |
| faenil | s/things/people/ | 01:03 |
| sledges | and simply whole nemo has gone wayland | 01:03 |
| faenil | yeah, that as well | 01:03 |
| faenil | there's no turning back :) but none would like to anyway ;) | 01:04 |
| faenil | just have to optimize this stack, and it will FTW \o/ | 01:04 |
| sledges | so gotta fight with what's on the table.. | 01:04 |
| sledges | yep | 01:04 |
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| faenil | I just imagined it very different :) everything talking about wayland as if it were the best thing since sliced bread | 01:04 |
| faenil | spend a month trying to get nemo wayland to boot, and what I got was noticeable worse experience | 01:05 |
| faenil | it was a trauma, I'll never get over it :D | 01:05 |
| sledges | it's not wayland's fault | 01:05 |
| sledges | and we started talking about n900 ;P | 01:05 |
| faenil | yeah I know, it's the whole thing | 01:05 |
| sledges | its performance might be the same as n950 | 01:05 |
| sledges | ;) | 01:05 |
| sledges | on wayland | 01:05 |
| sledges | because the stack is the bottleneck | 01:05 |
| sledges | not the hardware | 01:06 |
| sledges | (*more noticeable bottleneck) | 01:06 |
| faenil | actually according to master stskee it's the sgx530 that sucks at compositing | 01:06 |
| sledges | so how does x11 ask it to do nicely? | 01:06 |
| sledges | ;) | 01:06 |
| faenil | x11 did half half | 01:07 |
| faenil | it wasn't all composited as it is now | 01:07 |
| faenil | it was actually in direct rendering most of the time (afaiu) | 01:07 |
| sledges | so you're saying that sgx530 chip itself sucks | 01:07 |
| sledges | not the driver | 01:07 |
| sledges | (quoting our master ;)) | 01:07 |
| faenil | well, I'm a bit confused about the matter | 01:08 |
| sledges | if that is true (sadly), means we're fighting windmills | 01:08 |
| faenil | I've been asking so many people about this direct rendering | 01:08 |
| faenil | n9... | 01:08 |
| faenil | performance | 01:08 |
| faenil | etc etc | 01:08 |
| faenil | and I haven't got a clear idea about it yet :D | 01:08 |
| sledges | for the fb matters, it's all about blipping | 01:09 |
| sledges | but where the frame is rendered | 01:09 |
| sledges | that's where bottlenecks come in | 01:09 |
| faenil | for example sgx530 doesn't have hw overlays iirc | 01:09 |
| faenil | it only has video overlays | 01:09 |
| sledges | GPU HW vs in-house SW/compositing/direct-rendering | 01:09 |
| faenil | so the optimization which will eventually be done for jolla won't affect n9 | 01:09 |
| faenil | which will stay in its rock-age status | 01:10 |
| faenil | stone-age | 01:10 |
| sledges | well i was pretty sure n9 can be improved mostly by improving hw-dependent wayland rendering stack | 01:10 |
| sledges | but also we should disable rendering the offscreen QML layers | 01:10 |
| sledges | like app switcher when a front app is on top | 01:10 |
| sledges | that's about lipstick-colorful-home | 01:11 |
| faenil | I've been discussing with aknight about improving perf on n9 and I think the final thing was that we could try using the video overlays of sgx530 | 01:11 |
| sledges | zbenjamin was poking that | 01:11 |
| faenil | no that's done already | 01:11 |
| sledges | and no big improv? | 01:11 |
| faenil | (somebody afterwards confirmed that this was the current behaviour already, at least afaik) | 01:12 |
| sledges | oki | 01:12 |
| sledges | TI DSS has a nifty system for rendering a final frame | 01:13 |
| sledges | like, it has a video layer from camera | 01:13 |
| sledges | and then overlays an graphics layer | 01:13 |
| sledges | using a colour key (alpha if you are lucky) | 01:13 |
| sledges | for camera controls | 01:13 |
| faenil | that could be what the video overlays are | 01:13 |
| sledges | that's as far as i worked with TI DSS | 01:13 |
| sledges | but we are talking about [Qt/QML] graphics layers/composition (not-video) | 01:14 |
| faenil | yeah but they're called video overlays | 01:14 |
| * sledges always thought video means a stream from a DSP - capture device (camera/NTSC/PAL sources) | 01:15 | |
| faenil | I don't know man, you played with that you could be right, that's what I was told :) | 01:15 |
| sledges | but probably could be a stream from anywhere :) | 01:15 |
| faenil | yeah, that's what I got of it | 01:16 |
| sledges | to aid compositing.. | 01:16 |
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| faenil | btw, good night :) | 01:19 |
| sledges | a good btw :) | 01:21 |
| sledges | nite! | 01:21 |
| thomas_sch | hmm vakkov btw if you read this and want to answer you can query me :) and gn8 faenil | 01:21 |
| faenil | o/ | 01:21 |
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| wazd | morning people | 07:05 |
| Stskeeps | morn wazd | 07:05 |
| tbr | moaning | 07:15 |
| coderus | happy morning! | 07:17 |
| coderus | *Tea time | 07:17 |
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| sledges | \o | 12:52 |
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| goroboro | hey all... I'm using OBS on the build.merproject.org to try to build a linux C util for sailfish... I'm having a little trouble... can someone help me out for a minute? | 18:23 |
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| goroboro | problem is that I keep getting an 'unresolvable' build... nothing provides gcc, binutils etc... I'm new to OBS so I was wondering if I didn't set something up correctly | 18:25 |
| faenil | goroboro, that most likely means you're building against the wrong repo | 18:26 |
| goroboro | I just added the sailfish repo | 18:27 |
| faenil | mm I don't know how that repo is handled, lbt probably knows | 18:28 |
| goroboro | I see that it is trying to build for i586... which I don't believe that I care about | 18:28 |
| faenil | maybe you only added i586 repo to build against? | 18:28 |
| goroboro | brb phone | 18:28 |
| wazd | evening people :) | 18:34 |
| faenil | wazd, o/ | 18:34 |
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| goroboro | mmm have to dash... will take a look at this OBS stuff tomorrow | 18:52 |
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| wazd | faenil, qwazix: check it out, what do you think? (WIP) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Nemo/Glacier/ui1.png | 19:01 |
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| qwazix | wazd, we decided to keep the header up top and move the back arrow only, back arrow (or gesture for that matter is still TBD) | 19:02 |
| wazd | I think toolbar label for initial bar should appear when you open it and disappear when close | 19:03 |
| qwazix | back behaviour obvious choices are: (a) gesture like sailfish (b) overlay button like MicroB fullscreen on bottom left (c) edge swipe, but I strongly vote against (c) | 19:04 |
| wazd | you mean header and drawer are still combined and back button is where? | 19:04 |
| wazd | oh, ok | 19:04 |
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| wazd | why are you against edge swipe? | 19:05 |
| qwazix | because different edge swipes are confusing. IMO harmattan nailed it | 19:05 |
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| wazd | why different? it's always "back/home" | 19:07 |
| qwazix | different from each edge | 19:07 |
| wazd | hmm, so Glacier don't use edge swipes at all? | 19:08 |
| wazd | like swipe down to close | 19:09 |
| qwazix | now it is minimize from all 4 edges | 19:10 |
| qwazix | swipe to close is nice, but having each edge perform a different thing will be confusing | 19:11 |
| qwazix | as I said, I think harmattan behaviour is the best | 19:11 |
| wazd | Never heard of it from anyone | 19:11 |
| wazd | of confusion | 19:11 |
| qwazix | I wasn't clear, down to close is not confusing. | 19:12 |
| qwazix | if we add more edge-specific swipes IMO it will be | 19:12 |
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| qwazix | I tried harmattan with swipe-manager, BB10, W8 and sailfish and also gave them to other people, it's hard to muscle-memorize more than two different actions on swipes. It also makes operation with other hand weird. | 19:14 |
| qwazix | I like (a) - sailfish style back more, but qml has issues with direction recognition and it is obvious in sailfish, going back fails frequently enough to be annoying | 19:15 |
| wazd_ | I think pull back the page from the left edge is so obvious guesture that I can't come up with more obvious one imo, especialy eith all these visual animations | 19:15 |
| qwazix | and if you are on the first page of the app? | 19:16 |
| qwazix | minimize? | 19:16 |
| wazd_ | then you minimize it | 19:16 |
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| wazd_ | back/home | 19:16 |
| qwazix | sounds sane | 19:16 |
| wazd_ | even a book has 2 gestures :P | 19:17 |
| qwazix | so in general it does what other edges do, except if you are deeper in | 19:17 |
| wazd_ | yes, that was the idea | 19:17 |
| qwazix | and if we make the back animation like ipad safari back gesture it will also be visually consistent | 19:17 |
| wazd_ | what do you think of drawer visual style btw? | 19:18 |
| qwazix | http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_0032.jpg | 19:18 |
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| qwazix | wazd_, I like it | 19:18 |
| qwazix | but is it better enough to warrant a change of course? | 19:19 |
| wazd_ | yeah, I was thinking about that kind of visual clues | 19:19 |
| qwazix | AIUI faenil is almost finished with it | 19:19 |
| wazd_ | oh, didn't know that | 19:20 |
| qwazix | wazd_, would you like to spec the back behaviour? | 19:20 |
| wazd_ | Yeah, I guess I can do that | 19:20 |
| qwazix | :-) | 19:20 |
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| wazd_ | as for the drawer, I think faenil can still check it out and decide if it's worth his time :) | 19:21 |
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| qwazix | no problem with me | 19:22 |
| wazd_ | It's almost completely spec'ed, no random dimensions and stuff | 19:22 |
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| qwazix | though in accordance with hurrian's mockups the small labels (Font, File etc) should be uppercase | 19:23 |
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| wazd_ | Well, not sure if that trick follows typography rules but I guess we can add some kerning | 19:25 |
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| qwazix | I don't generally love uppercase either but it doesn't look bad and we kept it like that up to now. In general, as we have looots of work to do I prefer we don't lose time backtracking except if it's a big mistake to go with what is already decided | 19:28 |
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| wazd_ | alright, I need to get some sleep, cya tomorrow :) | 19:31 |
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| superusernine | hello, I need urgent help regarding my nemo | 22:38 |
| superusernine | I get 'Repartitioning failed! you might be in truble' on n9 | 22:39 |
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| tbr | that's covered on the wiki, isn't it? | 22:39 |
| superusernine | no, it dosn;t cover my problem | 22:39 |
| superusernine | How to reflash to meego? Nemo did something to my phone. I get bb5_rdc_cert_read failed. | 22:40 |
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| tbr | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#FATAL:_Re-partitioning_failed.21_You_might_be_in_trouble.21 | 22:44 |
| tbr | it sure does cover this | 22:44 |
| superusernine | I looked at that for an hour | 22:44 |
| superusernine | Actually, I used my whole day trying to do this yesterday, from that same page. | 22:45 |
| tbr | 16G or 64G? | 22:46 |
| superusernine | 16 BG | 22:46 |
| superusernine | 16 GB | 22:46 |
| tbr | then telnet in and check it out | 22:46 |
| superusernine | how to telnet? | 22:47 |
| tbr | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N9_16GB | 22:47 |
| tbr | ummm, you have usb connected right? | 22:47 |
| superusernine | telnet 192.168.2.15. Keeps trying to connect, but dosn't. | 22:47 |
| superusernine | Of course I have usb | 22:47 |
| tbr | you need to set your PC IP address on the USB interface to 192.168.2.14 first | 22:48 |
| superusernine | how | 22:48 |
| superusernine | im noobie at this | 22:48 |
| superusernine | using linx | 22:48 |
| tbr | then you shouldn't have been doing this AT ALL in the first place | 22:49 |
| superusernine | I mean at telneting | 22:49 |
| tbr | comment stands | 22:49 |
| superusernine | How do i 'set my PC IP address on the USB interface to 192.168.2.14 first'? | 22:50 |
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| superusernine | Can SOMEONE help please? | 22:52 |
| Yaniel | what os? | 22:53 |
| superusernine | linux | 22:53 |
| Yaniel | distro? | 22:53 |
| superusernine | fedora | 22:53 |
| superusernine | 20 | 22:53 |
| superusernine | have flasher and beta flasher installed | 22:56 |
| superusernine | No help yet? | 22:58 |
| Yaniel | hmm so from my experience on arch linux | 22:58 |
| Yaniel | use ifconfig -a to find out what the usb interface is called | 22:58 |
| superusernine | got this: em1: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 ether f0:de:f1:05:18:f3 txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) RX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 0 bytes 0 (0.0 B) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 device interrupt 20 memory 0xf2500000-f2520000 enp0s29u1u2c2: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULT | 22:59 |
| Yaniel | then use ifconfig to set yourself an ip address on that interface, and finally, enable it | 22:59 |
| superusernine | how, may i ask? | 22:59 |
| Yaniel | I don't know, I have iproute2 instead of ifconfig & friends | 23:00 |
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| Yaniel | but "how to set ip address with ifconfig" should not be too difficult to google | 23:00 |
| superusernine | so, how? No good answers when i binged it | 23:02 |
| Eztran | man ifconfig, anyone? | 23:02 |
| superusernine | I don't have command man | 23:03 |
| Yaniel | wat | 23:03 |
| Eztran | Amazed this didn't turn up when searching anyway: http://linux.die.net/man/8/ifconfig | 23:03 |
| superusernine | let me try | 23:04 |
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| superusernine | when 'ifconfig 192.168.0.15 up' typed, this is shown: 192.168.0.15: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device | 23:05 |
| superusernine | no answers? | 23:06 |
| Yaniel | 192.168.0.15 is not a device | 23:06 |
| Yaniel | (device == interface) | 23:07 |
| Eztran | It's probably called usb0 or similar, but can't speak for your setup. | 23:07 |
| superusernine | should i get arch | 23:07 |
| Yaniel | I don't think that would be a good idea | 23:07 |
| superusernine | anyway, i'll ask this at maemo talk | 23:08 |
| Yaniel | I have certain doubts that you would not get it installed | 23:08 |
| superusernine | what? | 23:08 |
| superusernine | bye... out of here. | 23:08 |
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