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| sandy_locke | for people around, a new post I made on qwazix 's blog : http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=665 | 03:21 |
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| sledges | g_morning | 08:08 |
| jussi | morning mr sledges | 08:12 |
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| zbenjamin | morning | 08:13 |
| fk_lx | hi guys | 08:14 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no fatalities? | 08:19 |
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| fk_lx | DocScrutinizer05: nope :-P | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | not a LG event | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 08:22 |
| stephg | MORNING | 08:22 |
| stephg | (for all those with sore heads) | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | stephg: @@$@$ | 08:22 |
| stephg | shhh! | 08:22 |
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| crevetor | Congrate yall | 08:33 |
| crevetor | Congrats | 08:33 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 08:34 |
| crevetor | Stskeeps: from starting mer to this : hats off sir. | 08:34 |
| stephg | ^that | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, libhybris made life a lot easier | 08:35 |
| crevetor | maybe but who wrote it ? | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 08:36 |
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| fk_lx | hehe | 08:37 |
| fk_lx | :-) | 08:37 |
| stephg | onwards and upwards now though right? | 08:37 |
| crevetor | Now I have to devise an evil plan to get my Jolla shipped wherever I am when my parents get it in France. | 08:37 |
| fk_lx | crevetor: libhybris Stskeeps idea - and also some good contributions from others | 08:38 |
| crevetor | fk_lx: yup | 08:39 |
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| zbenjamin | as soon as my jolla phone is here i can start to abuse my nexus for nemo development ;) | 08:59 |
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| locusf | good | 09:02 |
| locusf | I already have m7jd | 09:02 |
| locusf | mind | 09:02 |
| locusf | mine | 09:02 |
| locusf | will share details once i get home | 09:03 |
| zbenjamin | locusf: i hate you ;) | 09:03 |
| locusf | lol | 09:03 |
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| ghz | hello | 09:24 |
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| niqt | morning | 09:25 |
| gry | hi | 09:27 |
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| locusf | can somebody paste neme:devel:apps repo here? | 10:51 |
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| sledges | locusf: http://repo.merproject.org/obs/nemo:/devel:/apps/latest_armv7hl/ | 11:21 |
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| locusf | thanks | 11:23 |
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| locusf | ss ar did add it | 11:32 |
| locusf | but pkcon doesnt install it | 11:32 |
| locusf | will wait for Stskeeps | 11:32 |
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| sledges | O_o | 11:50 |
| sledges | zyppe? | 11:50 |
| sledges | ;) | 11:50 |
| locusf | no zypper | 11:50 |
| kaltsi | locusf: what are you trying? | 11:51 |
| sledges | locusf: | 11:51 |
| sledges | pkcon upgrade-system nemo-apps-wayland complete | 11:52 |
| sledges | O_O handle with care though :) | 11:52 |
| locusf | kaltsi to install mosh from devel.:apps | 11:54 |
| sledges | locusf: then don't run that command above :D | 11:54 |
| locusf | lol | 11:54 |
| kaltsi | locusf: after you added the repo, did you do "pkcon refresh" | 11:55 |
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| locusf | no | 11:55 |
| kaltsi | that's just like zypper refresh or apt-get update, fetches the metadata from the repo | 11:56 |
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| locusf | didnt find mosh after | 12:02 |
| locusf | how do i search for packages | 12:03 |
| locusf | with pkcon | 12:03 |
| kaltsi | pkcon search name mosh | 12:03 |
| locusf | hmm no rezults | 12:04 |
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| sledges | locusf: | 12:05 |
| sledges | mosh is not in repos | 12:05 |
| sledges | build failed | 12:05 |
| locusf | oh | 12:06 |
| sledges | https://build.merproject.org/package/show?package=mosh&project=nemo%3Adevel%3Aapps | 12:06 |
| locusf | shite | 12:06 |
| locusf | no wonder then :D | 12:07 |
| sledges | :) | 12:07 |
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| faenil | o/ | 12:51 |
| sledges | \o | 12:51 |
| locusf | hey faenil | 12:54 |
| fk_lx | faenil: hi | 12:54 |
| fk_lx | locusf: hi | 12:54 |
| fk_lx | sledges: hi | 12:54 |
| fk_lx | :-) | 12:54 |
| faenil | hey guys :) | 12:54 |
| locusf | fk_lx: hey | 12:54 |
| sledges | hi hi all :) | 12:55 |
| sledges | how's the jphone? :D | 12:55 |
| locusf | still getting used to it | 12:55 |
| sledges | saw you on the stream fk_lx , but faenil didn't pop into the view this time | 12:55 |
| * sledges feels outnumbered by already jusers around here ;D | 12:56 | |
| faenil | dm8tbr's stream? | 12:56 |
| sledges | yes | 12:56 |
| faenil | no way | 12:56 |
| sledges | and mtv3's | 12:56 |
| sledges | might have missed ;P | 12:56 |
| faenil | he pointed at me with the camera and I pointed at him :D | 12:56 |
| * sledges kept flipping between the two streams | 12:56 | |
| locusf | I left quite early, too cold | 12:56 |
| sledges | hehe locusf you should've stayed with the nemo union ;D | 12:57 |
| faenil | locusf, yeah I saw you leaving :( it's a pity we didn't have much time to talk | 12:57 |
| sledges | but i bet you couldn't wait to try the gem out ;) | 12:57 |
| locusf | faenil: yeah sorry man :/ | 12:57 |
| faenil | locusf, no problem :) I'm sure there will be another time | 12:57 |
| locusf | sledges: that too lol | 12:58 |
| fk_lx | sledges: hehe, dm8tbr did a lot of hard work going around with that tablet | 12:58 |
| sledges | locusf: devaamo? | 12:58 |
| locusf | sledges: ? | 12:58 |
| sledges | s/devaamo/fosdem/ | 12:58 |
| locusf | hmm | 12:59 |
| locusf | where is it this year? | 12:59 |
| sledges | same | 12:59 |
| sledges | brusseks | 12:59 |
| sledges | ls | 12:59 |
| sledges | &) | 12:59 |
| locusf | ok | 13:00 |
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| locusf | so yeah lipstick-colorful-home does run and all icons look good, with Jolla icons, its just that apps are upside down :D | 15:11 |
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| locusf | probably the Y-rotation needs to be enabled | 15:11 |
| w00t | make sure you've enabled rescue mode on usb-moded if you're tinkering with UI | 15:15 |
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| locusf | w00t: how do I do that? | 15:20 |
| w00t | phdeswer: ^ | 15:21 |
| locusf | w00t: were you in Finland yesterday? | 15:21 |
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| faenil | locusf, no w00t abandoned us :( | 15:22 |
| w00t | locusf: unfortunately not | 15:22 |
| locusf | w00t: ok | 15:22 |
| * w00t has to go out for a bit | 15:22 | |
| w00t | bbiab | 15:22 |
| phdeswer | locusf: find the usb-moded.service file and add -s to the arguments | 15:25 |
| phdeswer | -r sorry | 15:27 |
| locusf | phdeswer: thanks :) | 15:28 |
| phdeswer | locusf: everything that can be done with usb_moded is documented here : https://github.com/nemomobile/usb-moded/blob/master/docs/usb_moded-doc.txt | 15:29 |
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| locusf | phdeswer: okay | 15:34 |
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| timoph | oh. the username in Jolla is nemo | 18:24 |
| sledges | ftw | 18:24 |
| timoph | yeah | 18:24 |
| sledges | timoph: congrats on your jphone :) | 18:24 |
| timoph | thanks | 18:24 |
| sledges | how is that piece of engineering? | 18:25 |
| timoph | just wish there would be a list of known issues and a public bug tracker | 18:25 |
| timoph | I like the hw | 18:25 |
| sledges | Aard is busy gathering feedback, i think also busy dumping it all into their bz | 18:25 |
| timoph | sw is still a little rought around the edges | 18:26 |
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| faenil | timoph, +1 | 18:26 |
| timoph | only had to do two factory resets :) | 18:26 |
| faenil | timoph, 2 factory resets? for what reasons? XD | 18:26 |
| timoph | zypper/store stopped working | 18:26 |
| sledges | putting nemo in? :) | 18:26 |
| timoph | always failed to install anything | 18:27 |
| timoph | I think it was left in a weird state when trying to install developer mode in a car | 18:27 |
| timoph | network kept going on and off | 18:27 |
| timoph | that was the 2nd reset | 18:28 |
| timoph | 1st one I did since account creation didn't work for twitter | 18:28 |
| timoph | the signin thing for twitter never showed up | 18:28 |
| timoph | just failed silently | 18:29 |
| timoph | still trying to figure out if contacts sync works and if it does how to do it :) | 18:29 |
| sledges | Aard, are you following this ^_^ | 18:30 |
| timoph | :) | 18:30 |
| sledges | carddav is his area too | 18:31 |
| * sledges is backlogging #jollamobile atm | 18:31 | |
| timoph | on top of those there are some minor bugs that I can't remember all now | 18:33 |
| timoph | should've made notes | 18:33 |
| locusf | timoph: there is vcf import in the Jolla guide | 18:43 |
| locusf | no syncing afaik | 18:43 |
| timoph | ok | 18:44 |
| timoph | hmm. can't find it | 18:45 |
| locusf | settings -> apps -> people | 18:48 |
| timoph | ah | 18:48 |
| sledges | timoph: i found this: https://jolla.zendesk.com/entries/28410037-What-is-the-People-application-and-how-do-I-use-it- | 18:48 |
| sledges | silly it's not listed here: https://jolla.zendesk.com/forums/22779303-People | 18:48 |
| sledges | some duplication here and there | 18:48 |
| timoph | seems there's sim import only | 18:49 |
| sledges | looks like you can submit a bug: https://jolla.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new | 18:49 |
| sledges | but can't see what others have submitted :( | 18:49 |
| sledges | s/silly it's not listed here/silly "How do I import contacts" feature is not listed here/ | 18:49 |
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| qwazix | o/ | 18:56 |
| qwazix | just read the backlog | 18:56 |
| sledges | qwazix: wb \o | 18:57 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, btw, regarding the discussion about openness: You said about revenging the maemo closed bits. What I like about nemo and by association sailfish, is that there aren't any bits to reveng. | 18:57 |
| qwazix | Okay, there's the closed UI on Sailfish, but the situation isn't much better on maemo either. Can't use the phone without nokia closed apps. Only hildon is open, and we have colorful home | 18:58 |
| sledges | http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo | 18:58 |
| qwazix | sledges, yep, I know... | 18:59 |
| sledges | someone posted this yesterday while on #jollamobile :) | 19:00 |
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| sledges | all of those who care so much about open and free should look into whole Nemo as a top-bottom providing distro | 19:03 |
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| timoph | yep | 19:03 |
| sledges | and help it thrive and communicate (=enrich the community ;)) | 19:03 |
| * qwazix still believes that porting every single maemo extras package to nemo/X11 would be less effort than revenging all maemo closed bits | 19:03 | |
| timoph | :) | 19:04 |
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| timoph | I actually think that is true | 19:04 |
| qwazix | not counting that the end result is much cleaner and up to date, and you get updates for free | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | should be entirely possible to strip away the sailfish ui and put nemo on top | 19:05 |
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| timoph | hmmh. can't create my own ssh key | 19:07 |
| timoph | no it worked | 19:08 |
| sledges | or fremantle on top ;) | 19:08 |
| timoph | who would want that? | 19:09 |
| sledges | tmo | 19:09 |
| timoph | ah. those people :) | 19:09 |
| sledges | aren't them we are talking about? | 19:10 |
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| sledges | as per qwazix' thoughts | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf revenge? | 19:16 |
| qwazix | reverse engineer | 19:16 |
| qwazix | timoph, actually fremantle has one of the most productive UI's ever put on a phone. Still finger friendly, but also not-so-limiting as other full touch UI's | 19:16 |
| timoph | it was ok but I don't miss it that much | 19:17 |
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| qwazix | (I don't miss it at all, still using it :P) | 19:17 |
| timoph | and I know noone wants to maintain the Qt version for it :) | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and *I* said something abiut RE of maemo? in nemo context? sounds alien to me | 19:19 |
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| qwazix | [11:40:56] and we have some real fun RE'ing the closed blobs in it | 19:20 |
| qwazix | ^^ that was you | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't know what for, tbh | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, that was me, but not meant to suggest any future actions, particularly not regarding nemo | 19:20 |
| qwazix | no, no, I'm just commenting about why I find the "sandwich" situation better | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it was just to explain what a PITA a closed GUI gives us | 19:21 |
| qwazix | and I am saying that the closed sailfish GUI should be much less of a pita, because the system doesn't break when you get rid of it | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU team strugglinh hard to smash bugs like memleaks in lockscreen and system status applets at large | 19:23 |
| qwazix | :nod: I was thinking the comment was more about middleware blobs | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, when the best property of a system is that you can get rid of it, then that tells a story about the system's foundation ideas | 19:24 |
| qwazix | hmm, it's not all black and white | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm basically not really involved in all this. Got other pressing stuff to accomplish | 19:25 |
| qwazix | I mean if that closed UI layer makes Jolla money, and allows us to have a nice open nemo distro, I don't see the harm | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm basically not really interested in whether jolla succeeds or not, since they are dedicated to a device class that's not relevant for me: smartphomes | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I joined maemo not because smartphone but because NIT | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the NIT concept got abandoned with N9 already | 19:28 |
| faenil | timoph, sorry I was multitasking and forgot to read your replies :P please highlight me :D | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I nevertheless initially (on massive public demand) been willing to contribute to meego (harmattan) development despite I always said N9 isn't a device I'd consider using for myself. I changed my mind when it turned out all the promises about openmode been blatant lies | 19:33 |
| faenil | timoph, did you get vcf import to work? | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and I would've been required to learn a whole new way to manage the OS thanks to abominations like aegis and the undocumented commands it came with, to replace stuff like su and whatnot else | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the whole appeal of NIT been their similarity to any arbitrary desktop linux PC | 19:36 |
| faenil | DocScrutinizer05, ok, that was the past :) | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when i need to learn a whole new way to do things, then why not for a widespread system like android instead of some niche OS? | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I won't do either | 19:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I won't use a N9 nor a jolla for my digital companion, no matter which OS running on it | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simply because of the formfactor and general specs. So excuse me please | 19:40 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, we're talking software not form factor | 19:41 |
| qwazix | and nemo is still your normal linux distro | 19:41 |
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| qwazix | on form factor front we couldn't agree more | 19:42 |
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| Mric | Hey everyone ! Hope you are having an anwesome time with Jolla ? | 19:45 |
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| Mric | sledges, locusf, great job with Nemo/Glacier on wiki, I was really hoping that someone would do that. I have added the page on the main page of Nemo to publicise it more :) | 20:05 |
| Mric | sledges, locusf, great job with Nemo/Glacier on wiki, I was really hoping that someone would do that. I have added the page on the main page of Nemo to publicise it more :) | 20:05 |
| Mric | sorry for double post | 20:06 |
| sledges | thanks Mric :) | 20:08 |
| * sledges afk a bit | 20:08 | |
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| sledges | DocScrutinizer05: interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Internet_tablet#cite_note-7 | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, a reporter claiming that doesn't make it true. | 23:28 |
| sledges | ok, just checking :) | 23:28 |
| sledges | was just stumbling of what you meant by saying NIT | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually fremantle and diablo been pretty similar, except for minor changes in the GUI | 23:28 |
| sledges | I thought NIT was also following some phylosophical/FSF trends | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while N9 pretty much nuked everything, to a degree that we even got a new irc channel dedicated to harmattan, since answers on same question would differ significantly between freamntle and before, and harmattan | 23:30 |
| sledges | that's right, because technologies merged | 23:30 |
| sledges | and swapped | 23:30 |
| sledges | not to mention the names :) | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | til fremantle you basically got a mini PC in your pocket, with N9 and HARM this changed to a smartphone with apps | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and frankly I hate apps | 23:33 |
| Hurrian | luckily, Harmattan doesn't dump eglibc for bionic :P | 23:33 |
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| sledges | o_O | 23:34 |
| sledges | all clearer now | 23:34 |
| * sledges should really try to resurrect his n900 ooi | 23:34 | |
| sledges | mjones: im not seeing duplicate touch events :/ https://pastee.org/smuej | 23:35 |
| Hurrian | it's actually surprising how under the hood, Harmattan looks like Fremantle. | 23:35 |
| Hurrian | but the whole Hildon thing was scrapped, so it's now more a phone than UMPC. | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | looks like != works like | 23:35 |
| sledges | Hurrian: under the hood = middleware ? | 23:36 |
| Hurrian | yep. | 23:36 |
| sledges | well | 23:36 |
| sledges | mce dsme & Co ? | 23:36 |
| mjones | sledges: so there's something happening a little higher in the stack | 23:36 |
| sledges | mjones: yup, whilst interpreting those events it seems | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, both OS have for example a dbus msg to control the indicator LED. Just in HARM it's... dead | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | killed by aegis | 23:37 |
| Hurrian | the use of preinit instead of calling init, other scripts, mce, dsme, csd, excessive dbus use, etc. | 23:37 |
| * sledges wonders if it's possible to recompile qtbase without recompiling packages depending in it | 23:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in fremantle you can patch stuff in preinit, in HARM you can kill device by editing preinit | 23:38 |
| Hurrian | i was actually surprised that OSSO didn't base Harmattan on upstream MeeGo | 23:38 |
| sledges | right so basically Nokia should've stayed with Maemo | 23:38 |
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| sledges | how would a Maemo n9 have looked like you think? ;) | 23:39 |
| sledges | i'm of opinion Qt is more for embed devices than GTK.. | 23:39 |
| Hurrian | sledges: N950 running that really cluttered Harmattan concept | 23:39 |
| Hurrian | also we'd have got it in 2010 | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think Qt is much more bloated and way slower than GTK | 23:40 |
| sledges | is because GTK is less platform independent | 23:40 |
| sledges | no? | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and SURE I need and want and can't live without platform independence for my "apps" | 23:41 |
| sledges | for my whole ux layer | 23:41 |
| sledges | for all other boards im going to port the system to | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so they can get ported to... errr..... WinP? Sybian? AAh maybe blackberry | 23:41 |
| sledges | other architectures | 23:41 |
| sledges | et al | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in the end it turns out they can't even get ported to anpother maemo device | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-P | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | another* | 23:42 |
| sledges | but probably im one of the few who want emails embedded into their fridge door, and need to go and find something more portable ;) | 23:42 |
| sledges | probably that's why MeeGo boasted to go on netbooks,ivi,phone, and then lot more places | 23:43 |
| Hurrian | sledges: and unfortunately ended up on... none of them | 23:43 |
| sledges | not because it wasn't suitable | 23:43 |
| sledges | but again | 23:44 |
| sledges | funnily enough, meego for netbooks was GTK | 23:44 |
| sledges | :DD | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and btw one of the great achievements of Qt platform independence is: it implements its own brainfscked HID | 23:46 |
| sledges | that's worth the effort imho | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't it great how your own kbd layout doesn't apply to all the Qt apps? | 23:47 |
| sledges | and sadly too late to implement a less complex one now ;) | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...how each and every tool you're used to employ to handle any aspect around input is simply futile with Qt | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but well, let's perfectionize this: QtM | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what you get when you GFX toolkit tries to become your OS sandbox | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then I heard - dunno if tue or not - that qt is using floats to calculate simple things like rescaling. OMG | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | true even | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or scrolling, or simple moving around a sprite | 23:53 |
| sledges | one toolkit to rule them all :D | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see puzzlemaster, which turned from *wow* to *dead slow* when the auther changed to using the Qt gfx stuff, iirc | 23:54 |
| sledges | i spoke to the author, being very happy to notice how much faster it became in Qt5 | 23:55 |
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