Sunday, 2012-12-09

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CosmoHillnight night00:09
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Stskeepsgood morning07:34
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lpottertired07:37
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Stskeepsindeed07:37
Stskeepshad a good weekend though?07:37
lpotterbusy weekend. kids party and a brisbane trolls get together07:38
Stskeeps:nod:07:39
Stskeepsin helsinki there's kinda accidential get togethers .. there's a bar/resturant next to the old nokia research center building which it was quite normal to go to with your team back in nokia, we continue that tradition in jolla (a bit excessively at times..) and we often end up meeting other people from other teams that does same :P07:40
lpotterstill waiting on my full sized sim to arrive so I can do some desktop ofono fun07:40
Stskeepsah, with a usb modem?07:41
lpotteryes07:43
Stskeepsmakes sense, may be a good way to investigate LTE modems too07:44
lpotteronly thing is, connman insists on making usbnet, as in n9 phone, a tethered device with default gateway07:46
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Stskeepsi think it's more than usbnet though, i think it's phonet07:48
Stskeepswhich'd show up as a modem07:49
lpotterannoting is what it is :)07:49
Stskeeps(i think)07:49
Stskeepsyeah, there's some things that are rather annoying in connman, i wish they had open sourced maemo's icd2 :P07:49
lpotterindeed07:50
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DocScrutinizer05oh yeah!08:03
DocScrutinizer05btw networkmanager is exactly same annoyance regarding this behaviour08:04
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DocScrutinizer05old KDE3 (k)networkmanager been less "smart" and thus also less annoying, at least in Suse08:05
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* Bostik looks nastily at qt5-rc108:39
StskeepsBostik: i'm kinda curious about the non-released modules and their versioning08:42
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BostikStskeeps: you're not the only one, especially considering this "gem"08:48
Bostikodin:~/kala/qt5/qtwebkit% git describe v5.0.0-rc108:48
Bostikfatal: Not a valid object name v5.0.0-rc108:48
Bostikbut the "kill $include/Qt/..." has landed, which is a happy thing indeed08:49
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Stskeepsmorn TomaszD09:23
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TomaszDStskeeps, morn09:38
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TomaszDStskeeps, how's... what exactly are you doing nowadays anyway?09:38
CosmoHillhi rcg09:39
StskeepsTomaszD: chief of research at jolla, or something09:39
TomaszDI like the slight uncertainty09:40
Stskeepswell, things shuffle around :) i've done HR process at some point too09:41
TomaszD"I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING PEOPLE!"... things blow up afterwards09:41
CosmoHill"I've not idea what I do but it's very very important"09:41
TomaszDhah, HR09:41
rcghey CosmoHill and all :)09:41
TomaszDpeople want to recruit me for a webkit browser project09:42
TomaszDnot sure if I want that deathtrap09:42
StskeepsTomaszD: scary, tizen?09:42
Stskeeps:P09:42
TomaszDno clue09:42
TomaszDfirst they wanted me as a programmer09:42
TomaszDbut I'm not a programmer, which I politely explained to them09:42
TomaszDnow just sent a general proposal09:42
TomaszDthey've no idea what they want09:42
dm8tbrsounds like tizen ;-รพ09:43
dm8tbrbut could be generally any corporate project09:43
TomaszDwho the hell would want another webkit browser09:43
CosmoHillTomaszD: I had someone saying I'd be great for a role but they'd like some more detail, I pointed out I couldn't do most of the things on the job spec and that my CV makes no mention of them, they went "oh you're right"09:43
TomaszDI mean I don't want another one, so why would I want to join09:43
TomaszDCosmoHill, lol that's exactly my impression09:44
CosmoHillI get people contacting me going "we have a job you'd be great for, can we sent off your CV?" i say yes and that's normally the last i hear09:44
TomaszDI guess I'll respond and ask what's this all about, they're asking if I would be willing to join their HR process09:44
CosmoHillHuman ResourceS?09:45
TomaszDyou know, hiring09:45
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CosmoHillnot realy09:45
TomaszDhuman hiring09:45
TomaszD;)09:45
CosmoHillI've only had one job and that was offered to me at the end of the interview09:45
TomaszDan international client...09:47
TomaszDwebkit browser development...09:48
TomaszDoh well, it might as well be google, the message doesn't clearly state if this is the beginning or continuation09:48
CosmoHillis the job description a soup of key words?09:50
TomaszDbuzzwords galore09:50
TomaszDno not really actually09:50
CosmoHillor better yet, contradictory key words09:50
TomaszDshort and to the point09:52
TomaszDjust like my reply09:52
TomaszDwe'll see09:52
CosmoHillcool09:53
CosmoHilltbh i don't see much point looking for a new job around december09:53
TomaszDwell I can't just shrug the proposal off, they sent it on Friday09:54
TomaszDprofessionally I'm exactly where I want to be atm apart from the money, so it's ok anyway09:55
TomaszDbbl09:56
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BostikTomaszD: you're correct to be afraid of webkit projects, they tend to have more tentacles than a hentai archive10:17
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TomaszDBostik, hah10:20
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BostikTomaszD: it sounds like a joke, but I'm serious; "Oh, you mean you want WebGL *now*?" "Ummmm... you mean I need to fix the EGL backend too?" "Now just wait a minute, what do you mean it's not the same $feature version as in upstream?"10:31
Bostikand so on10:31
TomaszDwe're pioneering some things using webgl and maps at my workplace atm10:32
TomaszDit's a fucking nightmare10:32
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Stskeepsphaeron: can we somehow fix WARNING: Skiping duplicate certificate ca-bundle.trust.crt10:38
Stskeeps?10:38
phaeronStskeeps: it was on the independence day list btw10:38
phaeronStskeeps: mer:cobs ok for a name ?10:38
Stskeepsah10:38
Stskeepsyes, sure10:38
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Stskeepsvgrade: keyboard works perfectly on my vm now too, thank you10:57
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* Stskeeps waits for qtbase rc2 to build11:04
Stskeepsfinally it has pkgconfig(Qt5Base)11:05
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Bostikrc2?11:13
Stskeepser11:13
Stskeepsrc1, excuse me, i'll hide my timemachine11:14
RzR:)11:14
AristideStskeeps: Please disable your IPOT protocol :D11:14
RzRStskeeps, do u plan to ship qt5 in some image ?11:15
StskeepsRzR: mer already has qt5 beta1 in it11:15
RzRin the near future ?11:15
RzRi was talking about rc111:15
Stskeepsrc1, yeah, i just need to package it11:15
RzRbecause i am about to rebuild it all too11:15
RzRfor rpi11:15
BostikStskeeps: picked up my changes from modular specs already?11:16
Bostikthere might be some more, as some qml stuff now gets installed under "/usr/qml"11:16
Stskeepsunsure, URL?11:16
Bostikand that's not right, so some extra path is possibly needed for qtbase11:16
Bostikthe usual place11:17
Stskeepsk11:17
BostikI've pushed the ones that already work11:17
Stskeepswe should really do a one day where we unify the modular-qt-specs stuff11:17
Stskeepsso we use the same thing11:17
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BostikStskeeps: yes, I'd truly love a day of uninterrupted work on this11:21
Bostikeither it's pressure at work or wife/daughter requiring attention, it's been painful for months now11:22
Stskeeps:nod:11:22
TomaszDStskeeps, how's your Secure Office, still living up there?11:24
Stskeepsyeah, but moving atm11:24
Stskeepsbought a new apartment across the street11:24
TomaszDMore Secure Office?11:24
TomaszD:)11:24
Stskeepsgood enough, at least11:24
Bostik..and I'll want to rewrite the updater script from scratch, probably going to python instead of bash to make it saner11:25
TomaszDcool11:25
TomaszDI've had the htc one x for two days now, installed cm10, it's freaking amazing11:26
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keriomeeeeeeeeh11:28
kerioandroid11:28
TomaszDwell I know ordinary people don't visit this channel11:29
TomaszDandroid is totally fine11:29
niqtmorning11:29
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jonwilaah, I finally found out something about the newer PulseAudio, it looks like some code for a few things (Sidetone in particular) was added to the 2.1 PulseAudio code. This explains some unexplained stuff :)11:43
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StskeepsBostik: http://pastie.org/5501895 seems like the culprit of /usr/qml12:07
Stskeeps  -archdatadir "%{_datadir}/qt5" \12:10
Stskeeps    -testsdir "%{_libdir}/qt5/tests" \12:10
Stskeeps    -qmldir "%{_libdir}/qt5/qml" \12:10
Stskeepsnow in place12:10
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vgradeStskeeps: np12:25
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vgradesgx in the new allwinner SoC, http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/12/09/allwinner-a31-and-a20-processors-details/12:43
Stskeepscurious12:44
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dm8tbrquad core A7? that's 'interesting'12:45
RaYmAnbig.little, without the big, lol12:46
dm8tbrexactly my thought12:46
RaYmAntheir last cpu is cortex a8 - so they don't exactly target highend12:47
vgradebut low price12:47
RaYmAndefinitely12:47
Stskeepsdid anybody ever see allwinner in phones, out of curiousity?12:48
vgradeI wonder if the support will be improved?12:48
vgradenot seen phone, only tabs, stb and computer on stick12:48
Stskeepsok12:48
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dm8tbrthe'd need a modem to go with it12:49
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jonwilWhat surprises me is that of all the major mobile GPUs PowerVR is the one that has had the least work done on it12:50
jonwilyet its the most popular and widely used12:50
Stskeepsjonwil: work done on it, in terms of?12:50
RaYmAnvgrade: the last few cpus they've done, they've release source with loads of pre-compiled binary objects in kernel :/12:50
jonwilwork on open drivers12:51
jonwilLook at the work done on ARM Mali, Qualcomm Adreno, NVIDIA Tegra and Samsung Exynos, all of them have some level of open drivers AFAIK12:51
jonwilat least from a google that is12:51
Stskeepsjonwil: i think it's always been a thing between that factually, if you had hold on gles/egl drivers and easily downloadable under sane licensing (like on TI).. then why would you reverse engineer it?12:51
Stskeepsas it functions fine12:52
Stskeepsso that reduces the amount of people interested in working on it12:52
jonwilSurprised we haven't seen more push in reverse engineering it from those interested in the various ATOM chips with PowerVR GPUs12:52
jonwilThe driver state on those is a nightmare AFAIK12:53
Stskeepsthey're comparable to arm sgx in distributability12:53
Stskeepsit's just the X ABI thing usually being a problem12:53
jonwilRaYmAn: Depending on how those guys are doing these binary bits, I bet they may be violating the GPL12:54
Stskeepsit's china..12:55
Stskeeps:P12:55
Stskeepsit's not only a bet ;)12:55
jonwilyeah it seems like Chinese companies in that space are genuinely afraid about publishing source for some strange reason12:56
Stskeepswould be interesting to study why that is12:57
jonwilI think part of it has to do with chinese companies knowing that if they give out full source, it will be easier for their competitors to rip-off anything that makes their product good12:58
Stskeepsthat might be true, they're very capable12:58
Stskeepswhen there's no legal protection, GPL doesn't really matter12:59
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vgradefear of patent infringement, OEM is not given source, SoC vendor mandates NDA on OEM, fear of competitors13:00
jonwilChinese companies probably dont care about patents13:00
Stskeepsi'm not so sure, there was something about MIPS patents some years back13:01
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jonwilpossible13:01
vgradeOEM's might not but allwinner/amlogic are big companies13:02
jonwilalso they may not care so much about patents in China but if they want to sell in USA they will need to either make sure they have patent licenses for relevant patents (unlikely) or do their best to conceal any violations13:03
niqtsledges i have tihs problem:http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00933.html is just me or is known?13:08
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RaYmAnjonwil: they are definitely, and willingly, violating the GPL. Heck, I've heard about them requiring NDA's from their customers, that prevent the customer from releasing kernel sources13:15
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Stskeepsgood ideas on how to make it a disadvantage to have closed kernel source/modules welcome13:20
Stskeeps:P13:20
RaYmAnthey are somehow afraid that people are going to steal their uber crappy sourcecode13:21
RaYmAnalso, they have no real advantage to doing it. Most of their stuff is quick money, move on to next kind of thing13:22
jonwilOne idea I had is to put pressure on retailers not to carry products that violate the GPL. If the retailers in these countries wont carry your product, then the OEMs will start hurting and consider finding a better vendor for their next product13:22
RaYmAnafaik witstech pretty much design 90% of allwinner-based devices. OEM's just rebrand and use the provided software13:22
jonwilI mean I saw the idea13:22
jonwilsomewhere13:22
RaYmAnthe problem is, as far as I understand, is that it's pretty much impossible to pursue in china13:23
RaYmAnso all you can do is go after all retailers not in china13:23
jonwilI guess most of these chinese OEMs dont make enough sales outside of China to care about this13:23
RaYmAnindeed13:24
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SuperpelicanIsn't Nvidia Tegra slowly getting the most attractive linux ARM platform?13:24
SuperpelicanAt least they're contributing code and documentation13:24
RaYmAnthat would certainly surprise me. But yeah, they are releasing a lot of code and documentation13:25
SuperpelicanWhich Imagination Tech. doesn't do13:25
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SuperpelicanAccording to Phoronix (but I don't know if they're right, as Phoronix often seems to not be right) Samsung is also contributing a lot for the Exynos platform13:26
SuperpelicanWhich mainly uses Mali graphics13:26
jonwilyeah there are ARM Mali drivers out there13:26
SuperpelicanWhat's the state of Adreno?13:26
RaYmAnSuperpelican: samsung seems to be hit-and-miss wrt support..With exynos5 they seem to be contributing a lot..Supposedly they also did that a lot with exynos 3...but with exynos 4 support is just horrific13:27
jonwilhttps://gitorious.org/freedreno/ seems to be whats out there for qualcomm13:27
SuperpelicanOh, yeah isn't that the driver that's being reverse-engineerd by a TI developer?13:28
RaYmAnlooks like they moved to github: http://freedreno.github.com/13:28
Stskeepslbt_away: import latest prerelease to cobs when you have time13:29
Stskeeps(pretty pleae)13:29
Stskeepsse13:29
SuperpelicanWhat's the state of Freedreno, is it better than the reverse-engineered Mali drivers?13:29
SuperpelicanBetter than Nvidia Tegra Drivers?13:30
jonwilno idea13:30
RaYmAntegra only has vaguely open 2d stuff. 3D is still closed down13:30
SuperpelicanI thought they're was also a driver being reverse-engineered by Luc Verhaegen, a Belgian former SUSE developer13:30
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kulveluckily tegra has quite decent closed source drivers13:30
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RaYmAnthey've certainly gotten better :)13:31
RaYmAnthey used to require all sorts of weird hacks and proprietary userspace deamons and stuff13:31
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kulvercg is doing some nice work on getting plasma active running on nexus 7.13:32
jonwilThe good thing about the ARM space is that all ARM GPUs I have seen have no closed source kernel modules with all the secret bits being in userspace13:33
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phaeronStskeeps: http://review.merproject.org/103213:33
Stskeepsjonwil: heh, wasn't always like that13:34
Stskeepsphaeron: thank you13:34
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* phaeron strikes off another todo13:35
* Stskeeps adds another 513:35
jonwilDoes Tegra have any binary kernel bits?13:37
kulveI don't think so13:37
kulveyou can flash and boot at least tegra2 with 100% open source software. For acceleration, you need closed source binaries for user space (video, opengl es, X.Org)13:39
jonwilThat's good to know13:39
phaeronStskeeps: enough please :D13:40
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whi5key /exi13:53
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Stskeepsphaeron: alrighty then14:01
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BostikStskeeps: oh good, you found what I was looking for (and was prevented from hunting due being daughter's nap bed)14:30
SuperpelicanI just bought a 2nd hand N900 (but it'll take a few days before it's delivered) :)14:53
SuperpelicanAfter I've explored Maemo 5, I think I'll dual boot Nemo Mobile14:53
SuperpelicanBut I've one question, which SD card is recommend for booting Nemo Mobile?14:54
SuperpelicanI currently have a 8GB Kingston Class 414:54
SuperpelicanWill that be fast enough?14:54
SuperpelicanMer Wiki recommends Class 1014:54
SuperpelicanBut I've been reading the web and lots of sources say that random read and write is the most important for OS14:55
SuperpelicanAnd that lower class cards have higher random write and read speeds14:55
SuperpelicanSo now I'm quite confused, will my current card be fast enough, or should I buy another card?14:56
SuperpelicanAnd if I should buy a new one, which?14:56
Superpelicans/recommend/recommended14:56
SuperpelicanStskeeps:Does phone functionality currently work on N900 with Nemo Mobile?14:57
SuperpelicanStskeeps:As that's really a must for me14:58
dm8tbrthat should work. at least there were builds where it does ;)14:58
dm8tbralso, yes random-io is important. the best way is to test cards14:58
Superpelicandm8tbr:Does it work on the latest stable build?14:58
dm8tbrno clue14:58
Superpelicandm8tbr:So do you think I should buy a new micro SD card?14:59
Superpelicandm8tbr:class 4 Sandisk cards seem to get praised a lot for random io speed14:59
dm8tbrlikely14:59
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SuperpelicanDoes anyone have experience with the Nokia MU-43 8GB micro sd Card?15:13
SuperpelicanDoes it offer good performance with Nemo Mobile?15:13
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shmerlMozilla just added a patch for IonMonkey ARM/hardfp support: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802358 it should work properly now.18:50
MerbotMozilla bug 802358 in JavaScript Engine "IonMonkey: (ARM) Add support for hardfp" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]18:50
Stskeepsthat's kinda late though18:50
Stskeepsah18:50
Stskeepsadded a patch18:50
shmerlIt worked, but wasn't consistent.18:51
shmerlIonMonkey is pretty new anyway.18:51
shmerlI.e. it's already in the trunk18:51
Stskeepsah18:51
shmerlThey are bugged with too much focus on Android which is all softp18:52
shmerlFor more info about IonMonkey see: https://wiki.mozilla.org/IonMonkey19:00
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rcghttp://ruedigergad.com/2012/12/09/nexus-7-easily-flashaccess-entire-userdata-partition/21:52
rcgjfyi21:52
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rcgthat's the current state of moslo on nexus 721:52
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