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| CosmoHill | night night | 00:09 |
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| Stskeeps | good morning | 07:34 |
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| lpotter | tired | 07:37 |
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| Stskeeps | indeed | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | had a good weekend though? | 07:37 |
| lpotter | busy weekend. kids party and a brisbane trolls get together | 07:38 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:39 |
| Stskeeps | in helsinki there's kinda accidential get togethers .. there's a bar/resturant next to the old nokia research center building which it was quite normal to go to with your team back in nokia, we continue that tradition in jolla (a bit excessively at times..) and we often end up meeting other people from other teams that does same :P | 07:40 |
| lpotter | still waiting on my full sized sim to arrive so I can do some desktop ofono fun | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | ah, with a usb modem? | 07:41 |
| lpotter | yes | 07:43 |
| Stskeeps | makes sense, may be a good way to investigate LTE modems too | 07:44 |
| lpotter | only thing is, connman insists on making usbnet, as in n9 phone, a tethered device with default gateway | 07:46 |
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| Stskeeps | i think it's more than usbnet though, i think it's phonet | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | which'd show up as a modem | 07:49 |
| lpotter | annoting is what it is :) | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, there's some things that are rather annoying in connman, i wish they had open sourced maemo's icd2 :P | 07:49 |
| lpotter | indeed | 07:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah! | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw networkmanager is exactly same annoyance regarding this behaviour | 08:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | old KDE3 (k)networkmanager been less "smart" and thus also less annoying, at least in Suse | 08:05 |
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| * Bostik looks nastily at qt5-rc1 | 08:39 | |
| Stskeeps | Bostik: i'm kinda curious about the non-released modules and their versioning | 08:42 |
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| Bostik | Stskeeps: you're not the only one, especially considering this "gem" | 08:48 |
| Bostik | odin:~/kala/qt5/qtwebkit% git describe v5.0.0-rc1 | 08:48 |
| Bostik | fatal: Not a valid object name v5.0.0-rc1 | 08:48 |
| Bostik | but the "kill $include/Qt/..." has landed, which is a happy thing indeed | 08:49 |
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| Stskeeps | morn TomaszD | 09:23 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, morn | 09:38 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, how's... what exactly are you doing nowadays anyway? | 09:38 |
| CosmoHill | hi rcg | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: chief of research at jolla, or something | 09:39 |
| TomaszD | I like the slight uncertainty | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | well, things shuffle around :) i've done HR process at some point too | 09:41 |
| TomaszD | "I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING PEOPLE!"... things blow up afterwards | 09:41 |
| CosmoHill | "I've not idea what I do but it's very very important" | 09:41 |
| TomaszD | hah, HR | 09:41 |
| rcg | hey CosmoHill and all :) | 09:41 |
| TomaszD | people want to recruit me for a webkit browser project | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | not sure if I want that deathtrap | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: scary, tizen? | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | no clue | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | first they wanted me as a programmer | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | but I'm not a programmer, which I politely explained to them | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | now just sent a general proposal | 09:42 |
| TomaszD | they've no idea what they want | 09:42 |
| dm8tbr | sounds like tizen ;-รพ | 09:43 |
| dm8tbr | but could be generally any corporate project | 09:43 |
| TomaszD | who the hell would want another webkit browser | 09:43 |
| CosmoHill | TomaszD: I had someone saying I'd be great for a role but they'd like some more detail, I pointed out I couldn't do most of the things on the job spec and that my CV makes no mention of them, they went "oh you're right" | 09:43 |
| TomaszD | I mean I don't want another one, so why would I want to join | 09:43 |
| TomaszD | CosmoHill, lol that's exactly my impression | 09:44 |
| CosmoHill | I get people contacting me going "we have a job you'd be great for, can we sent off your CV?" i say yes and that's normally the last i hear | 09:44 |
| TomaszD | I guess I'll respond and ask what's this all about, they're asking if I would be willing to join their HR process | 09:44 |
| CosmoHill | Human ResourceS? | 09:45 |
| TomaszD | you know, hiring | 09:45 |
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| CosmoHill | not realy | 09:45 |
| TomaszD | human hiring | 09:45 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 09:45 |
| CosmoHill | I've only had one job and that was offered to me at the end of the interview | 09:45 |
| TomaszD | an international client... | 09:47 |
| TomaszD | webkit browser development... | 09:48 |
| TomaszD | oh well, it might as well be google, the message doesn't clearly state if this is the beginning or continuation | 09:48 |
| CosmoHill | is the job description a soup of key words? | 09:50 |
| TomaszD | buzzwords galore | 09:50 |
| TomaszD | no not really actually | 09:50 |
| CosmoHill | or better yet, contradictory key words | 09:50 |
| TomaszD | short and to the point | 09:52 |
| TomaszD | just like my reply | 09:52 |
| TomaszD | we'll see | 09:52 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 09:53 |
| CosmoHill | tbh i don't see much point looking for a new job around december | 09:53 |
| TomaszD | well I can't just shrug the proposal off, they sent it on Friday | 09:54 |
| TomaszD | professionally I'm exactly where I want to be atm apart from the money, so it's ok anyway | 09:55 |
| TomaszD | bbl | 09:56 |
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| Bostik | TomaszD: you're correct to be afraid of webkit projects, they tend to have more tentacles than a hentai archive | 10:17 |
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| TomaszD | Bostik, hah | 10:20 |
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| Bostik | TomaszD: it sounds like a joke, but I'm serious; "Oh, you mean you want WebGL *now*?" "Ummmm... you mean I need to fix the EGL backend too?" "Now just wait a minute, what do you mean it's not the same $feature version as in upstream?" | 10:31 |
| Bostik | and so on | 10:31 |
| TomaszD | we're pioneering some things using webgl and maps at my workplace atm | 10:32 |
| TomaszD | it's a fucking nightmare | 10:32 |
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| Stskeeps | phaeron: can we somehow fix WARNING: Skiping duplicate certificate ca-bundle.trust.crt | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 10:38 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: it was on the independence day list btw | 10:38 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: mer:cobs ok for a name ? | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | yes, sure | 10:38 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade: keyboard works perfectly on my vm now too, thank you | 10:57 |
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| * Stskeeps waits for qtbase rc2 to build | 11:04 | |
| Stskeeps | finally it has pkgconfig(Qt5Base) | 11:05 |
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| Bostik | rc2? | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | er | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | rc1, excuse me, i'll hide my timemachine | 11:14 |
| RzR | :) | 11:14 |
| Aristide | Stskeeps: Please disable your IPOT protocol :D | 11:14 |
| RzR | Stskeeps, do u plan to ship qt5 in some image ? | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | RzR: mer already has qt5 beta1 in it | 11:15 |
| RzR | in the near future ? | 11:15 |
| RzR | i was talking about rc1 | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | rc1, yeah, i just need to package it | 11:15 |
| RzR | because i am about to rebuild it all too | 11:15 |
| RzR | for rpi | 11:15 |
| Bostik | Stskeeps: picked up my changes from modular specs already? | 11:16 |
| Bostik | there might be some more, as some qml stuff now gets installed under "/usr/qml" | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | unsure, URL? | 11:16 |
| Bostik | and that's not right, so some extra path is possibly needed for qtbase | 11:16 |
| Bostik | the usual place | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | k | 11:17 |
| Bostik | I've pushed the ones that already work | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | we should really do a one day where we unify the modular-qt-specs stuff | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | so we use the same thing | 11:17 |
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| Bostik | Stskeeps: yes, I'd truly love a day of uninterrupted work on this | 11:21 |
| Bostik | either it's pressure at work or wife/daughter requiring attention, it's been painful for months now | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:22 |
| TomaszD | Stskeeps, how's your Secure Office, still living up there? | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but moving atm | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | bought a new apartment across the street | 11:24 |
| TomaszD | More Secure Office? | 11:24 |
| TomaszD | :) | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | good enough, at least | 11:24 |
| Bostik | ..and I'll want to rewrite the updater script from scratch, probably going to python instead of bash to make it saner | 11:25 |
| TomaszD | cool | 11:25 |
| TomaszD | I've had the htc one x for two days now, installed cm10, it's freaking amazing | 11:26 |
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| kerio | meeeeeeeeh | 11:28 |
| kerio | android | 11:28 |
| TomaszD | well I know ordinary people don't visit this channel | 11:29 |
| TomaszD | android is totally fine | 11:29 |
| niqt | morning | 11:29 |
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| jonwil | aah, I finally found out something about the newer PulseAudio, it looks like some code for a few things (Sidetone in particular) was added to the 2.1 PulseAudio code. This explains some unexplained stuff :) | 11:43 |
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| Stskeeps | Bostik: http://pastie.org/5501895 seems like the culprit of /usr/qml | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | -archdatadir "%{_datadir}/qt5" \ | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | -testsdir "%{_libdir}/qt5/tests" \ | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | -qmldir "%{_libdir}/qt5/qml" \ | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | now in place | 12:10 |
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| vgrade | Stskeeps: np | 12:25 |
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| vgrade | sgx in the new allwinner SoC, http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/12/09/allwinner-a31-and-a20-processors-details/ | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | curious | 12:44 |
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| dm8tbr | quad core A7? that's 'interesting' | 12:45 |
| RaYmAn | big.little, without the big, lol | 12:46 |
| dm8tbr | exactly my thought | 12:46 |
| RaYmAn | their last cpu is cortex a8 - so they don't exactly target highend | 12:47 |
| vgrade | but low price | 12:47 |
| RaYmAn | definitely | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | did anybody ever see allwinner in phones, out of curiousity? | 12:48 |
| vgrade | I wonder if the support will be improved? | 12:48 |
| vgrade | not seen phone, only tabs, stb and computer on stick | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:48 |
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| dm8tbr | the'd need a modem to go with it | 12:49 |
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| jonwil | What surprises me is that of all the major mobile GPUs PowerVR is the one that has had the least work done on it | 12:50 |
| jonwil | yet its the most popular and widely used | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: work done on it, in terms of? | 12:50 |
| RaYmAn | vgrade: the last few cpus they've done, they've release source with loads of pre-compiled binary objects in kernel :/ | 12:50 |
| jonwil | work on open drivers | 12:51 |
| jonwil | Look at the work done on ARM Mali, Qualcomm Adreno, NVIDIA Tegra and Samsung Exynos, all of them have some level of open drivers AFAIK | 12:51 |
| jonwil | at least from a google that is | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: i think it's always been a thing between that factually, if you had hold on gles/egl drivers and easily downloadable under sane licensing (like on TI).. then why would you reverse engineer it? | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | as it functions fine | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | so that reduces the amount of people interested in working on it | 12:52 |
| jonwil | Surprised we haven't seen more push in reverse engineering it from those interested in the various ATOM chips with PowerVR GPUs | 12:52 |
| jonwil | The driver state on those is a nightmare AFAIK | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | they're comparable to arm sgx in distributability | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | it's just the X ABI thing usually being a problem | 12:53 |
| jonwil | RaYmAn: Depending on how those guys are doing these binary bits, I bet they may be violating the GPL | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | it's china.. | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | it's not only a bet ;) | 12:55 |
| jonwil | yeah it seems like Chinese companies in that space are genuinely afraid about publishing source for some strange reason | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | would be interesting to study why that is | 12:57 |
| jonwil | I think part of it has to do with chinese companies knowing that if they give out full source, it will be easier for their competitors to rip-off anything that makes their product good | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | that might be true, they're very capable | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | when there's no legal protection, GPL doesn't really matter | 12:59 |
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| vgrade | fear of patent infringement, OEM is not given source, SoC vendor mandates NDA on OEM, fear of competitors | 13:00 |
| jonwil | Chinese companies probably dont care about patents | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not so sure, there was something about MIPS patents some years back | 13:01 |
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| jonwil | possible | 13:01 |
| vgrade | OEM's might not but allwinner/amlogic are big companies | 13:02 |
| jonwil | also they may not care so much about patents in China but if they want to sell in USA they will need to either make sure they have patent licenses for relevant patents (unlikely) or do their best to conceal any violations | 13:03 |
| niqt | sledges i have tihs problem:http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00933.html is just me or is known? | 13:08 |
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| RaYmAn | jonwil: they are definitely, and willingly, violating the GPL. Heck, I've heard about them requiring NDA's from their customers, that prevent the customer from releasing kernel sources | 13:15 |
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| Stskeeps | good ideas on how to make it a disadvantage to have closed kernel source/modules welcome | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:20 |
| RaYmAn | they are somehow afraid that people are going to steal their uber crappy sourcecode | 13:21 |
| RaYmAn | also, they have no real advantage to doing it. Most of their stuff is quick money, move on to next kind of thing | 13:22 |
| jonwil | One idea I had is to put pressure on retailers not to carry products that violate the GPL. If the retailers in these countries wont carry your product, then the OEMs will start hurting and consider finding a better vendor for their next product | 13:22 |
| RaYmAn | afaik witstech pretty much design 90% of allwinner-based devices. OEM's just rebrand and use the provided software | 13:22 |
| jonwil | I mean I saw the idea | 13:22 |
| jonwil | somewhere | 13:22 |
| RaYmAn | the problem is, as far as I understand, is that it's pretty much impossible to pursue in china | 13:23 |
| RaYmAn | so all you can do is go after all retailers not in china | 13:23 |
| jonwil | I guess most of these chinese OEMs dont make enough sales outside of China to care about this | 13:23 |
| RaYmAn | indeed | 13:24 |
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| Superpelican | Isn't Nvidia Tegra slowly getting the most attractive linux ARM platform? | 13:24 |
| Superpelican | At least they're contributing code and documentation | 13:24 |
| RaYmAn | that would certainly surprise me. But yeah, they are releasing a lot of code and documentation | 13:25 |
| Superpelican | Which Imagination Tech. doesn't do | 13:25 |
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| Superpelican | According to Phoronix (but I don't know if they're right, as Phoronix often seems to not be right) Samsung is also contributing a lot for the Exynos platform | 13:26 |
| Superpelican | Which mainly uses Mali graphics | 13:26 |
| jonwil | yeah there are ARM Mali drivers out there | 13:26 |
| Superpelican | What's the state of Adreno? | 13:26 |
| RaYmAn | Superpelican: samsung seems to be hit-and-miss wrt support..With exynos5 they seem to be contributing a lot..Supposedly they also did that a lot with exynos 3...but with exynos 4 support is just horrific | 13:27 |
| jonwil | https://gitorious.org/freedreno/ seems to be whats out there for qualcomm | 13:27 |
| Superpelican | Oh, yeah isn't that the driver that's being reverse-engineerd by a TI developer? | 13:28 |
| RaYmAn | looks like they moved to github: http://freedreno.github.com/ | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | lbt_away: import latest prerelease to cobs when you have time | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | (pretty pleae) | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | se | 13:29 |
| Superpelican | What's the state of Freedreno, is it better than the reverse-engineered Mali drivers? | 13:29 |
| Superpelican | Better than Nvidia Tegra Drivers? | 13:30 |
| jonwil | no idea | 13:30 |
| RaYmAn | tegra only has vaguely open 2d stuff. 3D is still closed down | 13:30 |
| Superpelican | I thought they're was also a driver being reverse-engineered by Luc Verhaegen, a Belgian former SUSE developer | 13:30 |
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| kulve | luckily tegra has quite decent closed source drivers | 13:30 |
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| RaYmAn | they've certainly gotten better :) | 13:31 |
| RaYmAn | they used to require all sorts of weird hacks and proprietary userspace deamons and stuff | 13:31 |
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| kulve | rcg is doing some nice work on getting plasma active running on nexus 7. | 13:32 |
| jonwil | The good thing about the ARM space is that all ARM GPUs I have seen have no closed source kernel modules with all the secret bits being in userspace | 13:33 |
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| phaeron | Stskeeps: http://review.merproject.org/1032 | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: heh, wasn't always like that | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: thank you | 13:34 |
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| * phaeron strikes off another todo | 13:35 | |
| * Stskeeps adds another 5 | 13:35 | |
| jonwil | Does Tegra have any binary kernel bits? | 13:37 |
| kulve | I don't think so | 13:37 |
| kulve | you can flash and boot at least tegra2 with 100% open source software. For acceleration, you need closed source binaries for user space (video, opengl es, X.Org) | 13:39 |
| jonwil | That's good to know | 13:39 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: enough please :D | 13:40 |
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| whi5key | /exi | 13:53 |
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| Stskeeps | phaeron: alrighty then | 14:01 |
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| Bostik | Stskeeps: oh good, you found what I was looking for (and was prevented from hunting due being daughter's nap bed) | 14:30 |
| Superpelican | I just bought a 2nd hand N900 (but it'll take a few days before it's delivered) :) | 14:53 |
| Superpelican | After I've explored Maemo 5, I think I'll dual boot Nemo Mobile | 14:53 |
| Superpelican | But I've one question, which SD card is recommend for booting Nemo Mobile? | 14:54 |
| Superpelican | I currently have a 8GB Kingston Class 4 | 14:54 |
| Superpelican | Will that be fast enough? | 14:54 |
| Superpelican | Mer Wiki recommends Class 10 | 14:54 |
| Superpelican | But I've been reading the web and lots of sources say that random read and write is the most important for OS | 14:55 |
| Superpelican | And that lower class cards have higher random write and read speeds | 14:55 |
| Superpelican | So now I'm quite confused, will my current card be fast enough, or should I buy another card? | 14:56 |
| Superpelican | And if I should buy a new one, which? | 14:56 |
| Superpelican | s/recommend/recommended | 14:56 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps:Does phone functionality currently work on N900 with Nemo Mobile? | 14:57 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps:As that's really a must for me | 14:58 |
| dm8tbr | that should work. at least there were builds where it does ;) | 14:58 |
| dm8tbr | also, yes random-io is important. the best way is to test cards | 14:58 |
| Superpelican | dm8tbr:Does it work on the latest stable build? | 14:58 |
| dm8tbr | no clue | 14:58 |
| Superpelican | dm8tbr:So do you think I should buy a new micro SD card? | 14:59 |
| Superpelican | dm8tbr:class 4 Sandisk cards seem to get praised a lot for random io speed | 14:59 |
| dm8tbr | likely | 14:59 |
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| Superpelican | Does anyone have experience with the Nokia MU-43 8GB micro sd Card? | 15:13 |
| Superpelican | Does it offer good performance with Nemo Mobile? | 15:13 |
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| shmerl | Mozilla just added a patch for IonMonkey ARM/hardfp support: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802358 it should work properly now. | 18:50 |
| Merbot | Mozilla bug 802358 in JavaScript Engine "IonMonkey: (ARM) Add support for hardfp" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | that's kinda late though | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | added a patch | 18:50 |
| shmerl | It worked, but wasn't consistent. | 18:51 |
| shmerl | IonMonkey is pretty new anyway. | 18:51 |
| shmerl | I.e. it's already in the trunk | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:51 |
| shmerl | They are bugged with too much focus on Android which is all softp | 18:52 |
| shmerl | For more info about IonMonkey see: https://wiki.mozilla.org/IonMonkey | 19:00 |
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| Stskeeps | cool | 19:10 |
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| rcg | http://ruedigergad.com/2012/12/09/nexus-7-easily-flashaccess-entire-userdata-partition/ | 21:52 |
| rcg | jfyi | 21:52 |
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| rcg | that's the current state of moslo on nexus 7 | 21:52 |
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