Wednesday, 2012-11-28

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phaeronlbt: of course, you wrote it :D00:03
lbt:D00:06
lbthmm00:08
lbtsystemd cycle trying to run sshd.socket in emergency.target.wants :/00:08
lbtstill, it seems to run a nice journal now00:11
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sonachmorning00:32
lbthey sonach00:33
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sonachlbt: good evening. How are things going?00:35
lbtsonach: really rather well - you saw the Jolla and Sailfish launch?00:36
sonachsure. And maybe you will come here sometime in the future?00:36
lbthoping so00:36
lbtthere's a small chance in december00:36
lbthave you spoken to the Jolla people about Sailfish ?00:37
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sonachno at the moment,00:37
lbtsince they have a solution for running android apps on Mer00:38
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sonachyes,00:39
lbtI'm going to talk at the Qt Developer Days next week too00:39
sonachLet's see what Jolla will bring to the market,00:41
sonachYes, Qt Dev days, There will be many interesting info :)00:42
lbtand maybe Mer is something Qt will be looking at a lot more closely now00:45
lbtyay - my Nook is an RNDIS device and it runs my shell config stuff ...00:46
sonach:)00:47
lbtgood enough for tonight ... bed now00:47
sonachgood night!00:50
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iekkumorning04:17
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Bostikmorning05:28
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situMorning everyone05:37
iekkuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz05:41
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situiekku: Are you at work ?05:50
iekkusitu, hmm, hard question :D trying to work at bus while travelling to helsinki05:52
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situAllright05:55
iekkuand trying to be awake :P05:58
situI can see that :P06:00
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Stskeepsmorn06:20
ljpmorning06:21
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* Stskeeps needs coffee06:26
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ljpI am so over this 'retina display' crap06:28
Stskeepsit's just a marketing ploy in order to make people accept apple putting their devices straight onto the retina of people06:29
Stskeeps:P06:29
Figure:D06:34
ljpnew Apple Retina(tm) inplantable chip06:37
chriadami'll take 206:38
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ljpI'm waiting for the 7.1 Surround Retina Chip06:43
chriadamCochlea Chip, I'd imagine06:45
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niqtmorning07:20
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ljpyum. food.07:44
Stskeeps:)07:44
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Stskeepspq: is there any good reason why wayland-android-client-protocol.h refers to android_wlegl_handle_interface which only exists in server part? server_wlegl_handle.cpp that is09:04
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pqStskeeps, mm, let me check09:21
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Stskeepshey francois___, how is it going?09:21
Stskeepspq, might simply be that i need to implement the client side, of course09:21
francois___hello! well, thanks!09:21
francois___wtill playing with Mer :-)09:22
francois___I have a somewhat working sh4 project09:22
francois___but haven't had time to test it that much09:22
francois___had to switch to a mips platform09:23
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Stskeeps:nod:09:23
francois___but of course that was a chance to test the Core:mipsel distribution :)09:23
Stskeepshehe09:24
Stskeepsno idea how it works, but it seemed to work on qemu09:24
francois___well almost fine :)09:24
francois___I had to patch libsolv09:25
francois___for zypper to work09:25
Stskeepsah, what kind of issue did it have?09:25
francois___zypper would not install mips packages otherwise09:26
Stskeepsah09:26
Stskeepsfeel free to submit patch :)09:27
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pqStskeeps, android_wlegl_handle_interface is defined in the generated protocol .c file, that is needed both server and client side09:28
francois___there are few things I wanted to report :)09:29
francois___I'll have to go through the wiki to see how to submit patches09:29
pqStskeeps, that is the variable called android_wlegl_handle_interface. OTOH, struct android_wlegl_handle_interface type is server-side only.09:29
Stskeepspq: ah feck, you're right09:29
francois___these are tiny contributions though ^^09:29
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Stskeepspq: i didn't see the _impl part :)09:29
Stskeepsfrancois___: mer's made up of tiny contributions :)09:30
Stskeepspq: thank you09:30
pqStskeeps, yeah, it's kind of... subtle :-/09:30
pqbut inventing intuitive names is hard09:30
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francois___oh I had to patch mic too to build a mips filesystem09:46
francois___to copy qemu-mips09:46
Stskeepsah, that'd be a welcome patch09:47
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CosmoHillhey slaine09:58
slaineHey CosmoHill09:59
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francois___I can't debug mips programs on the target. I get the following message when gdb reads the symbols: Dwarf Error: wrong version in compilation unit header (is 29805, should be 2, 3, or 4)10:01
francois___it seems to be because of eu-strip10:01
francois___when building the rpm10:01
francois___it uses the x86 version10:01
francois___I don't get that error if I use the plain mips version of elfutils10:02
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Stskeepshmm, it should use the one matching the target though10:03
Stskeepssb2-show exec /usr/bin/eu-strip10:03
Stskeepsosc chroot , su abuild, sb210:04
Stskeepsand then do that10:04
francois___Mapped/usr/bin/eu-strip10:04
francois___the file command states it's the x86 binary that is used10:05
Stskeepswhat does /usr/bin/strip say?10:05
francois___same thing10:05
Stskeepsok10:05
francois___maybe I'm using an old sb2config?10:05
francois___mode10:06
Stskeepsno, should be right...10:06
francois___in my mode files, I have accelerated_program_actions for both10:07
Stskeepsyeah, makes sense10:07
francois___ok10:07
Stskeepsis version 4 shomething like 29805 in big/little endian or whatever?10:08
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Stskeepshttps://lists.fedorahosted.org/pipermail/elfutils-devel/2012-March/002279.html maybe relevant10:09
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francois___seems relevant indeed!10:12
Stskeepsi'm almost a bit worried that not many cares about mips anymore, though10:13
francois___yes it seems so...10:14
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phakoStskeeps: well there's a lot of arm fuzz going on - I don't really remember something like a "raspberry-mips" e.g.10:17
Stskeeps:nod:10:17
phakowhich I would like, the only MIPS I've access too weighs quite a lot.10:18
sledgesgood yawning10:20
phakoStskeeps: hm. Actually10:21
phakohttp://shop.8devices.com/carambola-bundle10:21
* phako has interesting bookmarks10:22
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francois___I updated the Core:i586/elfutils package with the one from Debian sid that includes the patches your pointed at and it works :)10:48
Stskeepscool10:49
francois___guess I have to rebuild all my mips packages now ^^10:49
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VDVsxStskeeps, second patch for accounts-qt integration into qmf, would be good to get this in since previous one will cause some UT's to fail: http://review.merproject.org/#change,101711:06
Stskeeps2ok11:06
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SageStskeeps: http://review.merproject.org/101811:40
Stskeepsok, i'll merge after i've sorted out the accounts mess11:42
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Stskeepssroedal: are there any good reasons why eglfs doesn't take nativeResourceForWindow in it's native interface?11:46
Stskeepsthinking egldisplay11:47
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sroedalStskeeps: nope, those are basically added on a need by need basis :)12:13
Stskeepsalright, just noticed that wayland_egl integration requires nativeResourceForWindow, so12:16
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vgrade_w00t: did you notice the fps log I posted13:03
w00tvgrade_: no, i didn't :)13:03
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w00thave been a bit unwell, so having trouble following everything13:04
w00tpoint me at it?13:04
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vgrade_w00t: sec13:23
vgrade_w00t: http://merproject.org/logs/%23mer/%23mer.2012-11-27.log.html#t2012-11-27T21:39:3613:24
w00thmm13:24
w00t30fps more or less constant13:24
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CosmoHillhi gabrbedd13:44
gabrbeddCosmoHill: Howdy!13:45
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w00tvgrade_: thanks btw13:49
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vgrade_w00t: np, anytime13:50
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zhxthi, all.14:04
zhxtI got an error when building Mer SDK.14:04
zhxtInfo: Installing: virtualbox-guest-mod +++++++++++++++++++++++            [148/210]ERROR: could not open directory /lib/modules/3.4.11-2.16-desktop: No such file or directory14:04
zhxtFATAL: could not search modules: No such file or directory14:04
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zhxtany suggestions?14:06
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zhxtthe whole log is here: http://pastie.org/544790014:08
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Stskeepspq: was able to pretty much drop in your server_wlegl stuff14:48
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pqStskeeps, cool :-D14:51
Stskeepspq: adding rest stuff but i'm successfully sending frames from a process to the compositor and it registering the buffers14:52
Stskeepson qml compositor, too14:52
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pqStskeeps, congrats! Can you see if the image contents come through fine?14:56
Stskeepspq: soon enough, registerBuffer goes fine, so i assume things ago14:56
Stskeepsare ok14:56
pqhopefully :-)14:56
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kallecarllbt: any news from Slush? stuff that would be good to know at Qt Developer Days.16:27
Stskeepskallecarl: did you see our launch video(s)?16:27
kallecarlnot yet16:27
kallecarlsaw them though16:28
kallecarltoday later16:28
Stskeepsalright16:28
kallecarlare you happy with Slush experience16:28
kallecarlget any tips on what people want to hear more about16:28
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Stskeepsprobably SDK :P16:31
sledges@ #jollamobile pls ;)16:31
kallecarlStskeeps: platform SDK prolly...anything about apps16:31
iekku+1 for sledges16:32
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iekkuif speaking sailfish sdk16:32
kallecarlsledges: iekku: sorry guys. I'm giving a talk in a week about Mer16:32
iekkukallecarl, ah. sorry :)16:33
kallecarlI want to know what Stskeeps and lbt encountered about Mer in Helsinki16:33
kallecarlStskeeps: any interest in Qt?16:33
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Stskeepsquite a bit, qml side was received well16:34
kallecarlppl interested in what they can do on top of Mer16:34
kallecarlStskeeps: any new Mer takers?16:35
Stskeepsi think most are looking to see what sailfish can do (which is kinda a combo thing)16:36
Stskeepsso that includes mer too naturally16:36
kallecarlI'll watch videos16:36
iekkukallecarl, sdk presentation was good, problem in video is that you can't really see what is in the screen16:37
kallecarlStskeeps: there was gonna be something about Mer and QtCreator announced soon16:37
Stskeepsyeah, that was part of the sdk presentation, sailfish sdk is built on top16:38
faenilkallecarl, we're waiting :D16:38
kallecarlbut sailfish wiki says talk with #mer or #nemomobile16:39
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faenilkallecarl, yeah...16:40
kallecarlalso...soon you'll be able to download "your own copy of QtCreator"16:40
kallecarlthen you can work with mer and nemomobile16:40
faenilkallecarl, you can already clone mer-qt-creator repo and build mer qtcreator yourself16:41
kallecarlStskeeps: lbt: are you satisfied with how Slush went for you16:41
faenilbut it's missing Jolla components :)16:41
Stskeepskallecarl: up16:41
Stskeepsyup16:41
Stskeepswe got to show what mer is really capable of with a bit of ui work16:41
kallecarlwere their any nibbles from mfrs or such?16:41
kallecarlthere16:41
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Stskeepsthere was some interested, but it wasn't really a trade show16:42
Stskeepsmore like startups16:42
Stskeepsi have a good feeling about it, at least16:42
kallecarlany messages I should include at Qt show?16:43
mikhas"News about Qt's premature death haven been greatly exaggerated."16:43
iekkumikhas, :D16:44
kallecarlfrom Nokia to open ... has it already changed things for Qt people?16:45
Stskeepskallecarl: something about that this shows that even a qt4 stack can be made to perform extremely well16:45
Stskeepsit's not even qt5, so it'll absolutely fly on qt516:45
kallecarlStskeeps: cool16:45
Stskeepsand mer delivers the engine to get to 60fps with ease and stay there16:45
kallecarlwhat startups - devices? or app developers?16:46
* ShadowJK would've generally thought newer meant more bloat and slower perf16:46
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kallecarlShadowJK: not in MerLand16:46
faenilpowered by Stskeeps™16:46
Stskeepskallecarl: it was a startup festival of sorts for all sorts of finnish startups16:46
kallecarlnewer means 1/4 the # of packags16:46
ShadowJKDoes it sacrifice response time to get higher fps?16:46
kallecarlStskeeps: more software people then, but maybe some h/w too?16:47
iekkumostly sw16:47
kallecarlyeah16:47
iekkuthere were also some companies from scandinavia and  russia16:47
kallecarlshould be more h/w in California I think16:47
kallecarlmore than Finland that is16:47
kallecarlbut dominated by software16:48
iekkuslush had this "this isn't california.." slogan :P16:48
kallecarlthe next Angry Birds16:48
kallecarliekku: was it snowing?16:48
kallecarlwere people sane?16:48
mikhashah!16:48
mikhasstartup people … sane16:48
mikhas:-D16:48
kallecarldid you see Arnold Schwarzenegger16:49
kallecarlnot California for sure16:49
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iekkukallecarl, weather was suprisingly good. no snowing, etc16:49
mikhasdespite the conference's name16:49
iekkukallecarl, define sane?16:50
iekkunot sure if i ever have met sane person16:50
iekku:P16:50
kallecarldefies definition...that's the beauty of it16:50
iekkuif i have, i bet they haven't talk to me16:50
kallecarlcuz you're suomalainen16:51
kallecarlulkomaa ppl don't know how to speak the language16:51
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iekkukallecarl, i have thoughts that my nationality isn't the reason :) but anyway i think creative and innovative people are insane in some way, so16:52
kallecarlys16:52
kallecarlI was some years in Joensuu16:53
iekkuuh16:53
kallecarlhulu jatka they called me16:53
iekkuin uni?16:53
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kallecarllyseo16:53
iekkukallecarl, hullu jätkä16:53
kallecarlI'm in the states we don't recognize that dot stuff16:53
kallecarlbut yes16:53
kallecarlhullu16:53
kallecarlhullu ja olut ja koskenkorva16:54
iekkujajajajajaj16:54
iekkuhahahahha even16:54
kallecarlokay I will talk about Finland in silicon valley then16:54
kallecarlthanks Stskeeps lbt please email if you think of anything else that I should mention re: Mer16:55
iekkukallecarl, try to get more vendors :)16:55
kallecarliekku: yes, selling what?16:56
kallecarldevice mfrs16:56
iekkudunno16:56
Stskeepssmall to medium businesses which want to make devices, i think16:56
iekku+116:56
kallecarlokay16:56
iekkui think it would be health for mer to get more companies around it16:57
kallecarlIs Mer running well on RaspPI and the like16:57
kallecarleasy to install etc.16:57
Stskeepssure16:58
kallecarlokay I'm good16:58
kallecarlit fits with what I've already put together16:58
kallecarlexcept I'll do more about getting more vendors16:58
kallecarlspeaking to them anyway16:58
iekku:)16:59
iekkuthanks kallecarl16:59
kallecarlit is my pleasure16:59
kallecarlI like the Mer project16:59
iekkuyou aren't alone with that feeling16:59
kallecarlfyi ... I do a lot with KDE and work on Plasma Active as non-techie17:00
kallecarlthe person who goes to trade shows17:00
kallecarlbooth babe17:00
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mikhasactually, Mer could serve as an interesting platform for medical services17:04
mikhassay, medical homecare, medical entertainment devices …17:04
Stskeepswell, that's where slaine is looking, http://lincor.com/17:05
mikhasd'oh17:05
Stskeepsfirst mer was a prototype base for next-gen healthcare systems in the home17:06
slaine:)17:06
phakomedical entertainment?17:07
mikhasgiven that Finland spends ridiculous amounts of taxpayer money on healthcare, this sounds obvious now17:07
mikhasphako, yeah, ever heard of the game "flatliners"?17:07
phakoI saw a game to teach disabled people waling again yesterday17:08
phakowalking17:08
Stskeepsso, yeah, mer makes an excellent basis for that kind of stuff17:08
mikhasone team (usually the doctor) tries to keep the lines low while the other team (usually nurses) revive the patient17:08
Stskeepsmy personal goal is to make smarthouses with mer17:08
Stskeeps:P17:08
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mikhasphako, The Walking Dead?17:09
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slaineStskeeps: I could see your interest in Glass in the Sailfish stuff17:09
mikhasI'll show myself out.17:10
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Stskeepsslaine, hehe, i didn't design any ui parts :)17:18
slaineYour ethos obviously has far reach ;)17:18
mikhasStskeeps, isn't the buzzword home automation?17:22
mikhashaven't seen smart house yet17:22
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* lbt wanders back after a short break17:26
lbto/ kallecarl17:26
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kallecarllbt: hey there17:53
kallecarlcame looking for any last minute tips on what should be covered at Qt Developer Days17:54
kallecarlanything new coming out of Slush and whatever else17:54
SpeedEvilwhat does 'qt' stand for.17:55
kallecarlit was better than "cute"17:55
kallecarlniftier for geeks at the time apparently17:56
kallecarlI don't know17:56
SpeedEvilnvm.17:56
SpeedEvilI was referring to an17:56
SpeedEvila silly question back in maemo times.17:56
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ljpquasar technologies18:01
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lbtkallecarl: one thing that came out of Slush is that Jolla is supporting Mer's work on QtCreator as the foundation of the Sailfish SDK and clearly there will be an app-store story based around Qt apps.18:18
kallecarllbt: just watched the videos. No mention of Mer18:25
kallecarlin those18:25
kallecarlhow visible was Mer at Slush?18:25
lbtreally - I don't think it was in the keynote but I mentioned it a bit in the SDK talk18:26
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kallecarlso the Sailfish OS seems like it is app-centric18:26
kallecarlURL for SDK talk?18:26
lbtjolla.com18:26
kallecarlk18:26
lbt4th video link18:27
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lbtSlush was very much a launch of Sailfish UI and Sailfish SDK by Jolla - Mer was certainly mentioned but it wasn't the focus by any means.18:28
Bostikthe audience in SDK talk certainly knew about it18:28
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lbtgah - can ping my device and see usb0 on it - but ssh is not up18:38
kallecarlStskeeps: is the welcome bot. who knew?18:40
lbthehe18:40
lbtI think this is systemd's wonderful "if in doubt, fail" attitude18:42
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kallecarllbt: did you tell people that you are going to be in the U.S.?18:54
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lbtwho?18:55
kallecarlppl at Slush18:56
iekkukallecarl, many newcomers actually thinks that Stskeeps is bot :D18:56
lbtyes, some of them18:56
kallecarlwere there U.S. financial ppl there who were interested in more?18:56
kallecarlhe is efficient at welcoming ppl sure18:57
lbtnot really tbh - focus was very much on Sailfish18:57
* lbt has guests ... bbl8r18:57
RzRwell how he may be one, how to know ... how to even know we may are ones too18:57
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iekkuRzR, i have seen him writing to here irl :P18:58
iekkuhmm, am i a bot?18:58
RzRwell robots may look like humans , rip off his flesh to check18:58
* iekku goes to think about that18:59
RzRiekku, people who denies existence of robots , are actually robots themselves they just need to accept it ...19:00
kallecarldid Stskeeps pass the Turing test?19:00
RzRlet me suggest to try that one19:01
RzRhttp://bladerunner.wikia.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_machine19:01
kallecarlthat plus the needle from Matrix that goes under his skin19:03
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kallecarllbt: great job presenting without slides19:04
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CosmoHilllbt: ever wanted a VW Camper?19:05
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kallecarlhow much of the application development demo is done in Qt/QML?19:09
kallecarliekku: ^^19:10
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CosmoHilllbt: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/VW_Bus_lookalike_2.JPG19:13
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Stskeepsgood morning ljp20:17
ljphello20:17
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andre__How is the driver situation for the Vivaldi tablet? Is it all free software?20:56
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andre__I only remember aseigo's fights with Chinese hardware vendors, explaining what GPL means, but don't remember the outcome...20:56
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SpeedEvilfuck all20:58
SpeedEvilin general20:58
andre__SpeedEvil, I'll try!20:58
SpeedEviloh, I missed the first line20:59
SpeedEvildon't know specifically20:59
andre__ehehe20:59
Stskeepsandre__: vendor didn't want to provide kernel, i think20:59
SpeedEvilas far as I know, open GPU is impossible20:59
CosmoHillhi SpeedEvil21:00
SpeedEvilhi21:00
andre__I only want to contradict a posting by RMS on a gnome mailing list stating that there is no 100% free tablet. I love to contradict him, you know :P21:00
SpeedEvilthere is no 100% free laptop21:00
SpeedEvilor desktop21:00
SpeedEvil...21:00
Stskeepsandre__: exopc? ;p21:01
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andre__Stskeeps, hihi :P21:01
SpeedEvilcalling firmware running on different processors irrelevant because it's convenient is a silly position21:01
SpeedEvilthere are over a dozen processors in many phones21:02
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niqthi21:36
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CosmoHillbleh22:39
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lbtat last .. ssh to nook23:34
lbtalso, fwiw got 3.0.8 kernel and 2.6.32.9 kernels running23:35
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