Tuesday, 2012-11-27

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sonachmorning01:41
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Ken-YoungOn the mer project wiki, I see instructions for creating the "Platform SDK", but there are references to an "Application SDK", and I see no instructions for building that.   Is there a separate Applications SDK for mer, and if so, where can I get it?02:52
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Ken-YoungOn the mer project wiki, I see instructions for creating the "Platform SDK", but there are references to an "Application SDK", and I see no instructions for building that.   Is there a separate Applications SDK for mer, and if so, where can I get it?04:38
specialthere is only one Mer SDK04:38
Ken-Youngspecial, Do people normally not develop apps with the Mer SDK?   The wiki implies that is the case.04:40
specialwell, what're you developing for?04:40
Ken-Youngnemo on an N950.04:40
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Ken-YoungI'm hoping to do that as a stepping stone towards Sailfish app development.04:41
specialthen the mer SDK is what you want04:42
Ken-YoungIt does not look like the Sailfish SDK is available yet.04:42
specialsee https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#Installation_.2F_setup for instructions on installing the sdk04:42
specialand https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2 explains how to set up a target for nemo04:42
specialthe sailfish SDK, when it is available (which hopefully won't be long, but I don't know) will probably be much easier.04:43
Ken-Youngspecial, Thanks very much for the pointers!04:45
specialper https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Overview, the sailfish SDK will be a copy of QtCreator + the mer SDK + sailfish-specific stuff04:46
Ken-YoungI hope they provide a VM image of it.04:47
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situMorning everyone05:17
chriadamgmorning05:23
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dm8tbrgood moaning http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/57/5796/579673.gif06:35
Stskeepsmorn06:35
Jucatoall hail!06:36
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Bostikmorning06:40
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Bostikapparently ruby _is_ a hard requirement for {,qt}webkit now...06:41
Stskeepswtf06:41
Stskeeps:P06:41
timophhuh06:42
Bostikmacroassembler+llint, and bytecode stuff uses llint_op_** directly06:42
timophand morn06:42
Bostikand no - I am not going to patch that one out06:42
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mountainHi, I can run "osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com/ ls Mer:Tools " outside MerSDK, but got error "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 404: Not Found " when issued inside MerSDK, I've done 'sdk mount' before 'sdk enter', what could be wrong here?06:43
Bostikor is there another wa...06:43
Stskeepsanything that can be pre-generated before build, maybe?06:43
Stskeepsmountain: osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com ls06:43
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Bostik#if ENABLE(LLINT) ...06:44
mountainstill the same error: Server returned an error: HTTP Error 404: Not Found06:44
Bostikthat looks like a good spot06:44
Stskeepswhat is llint anyway?06:44
Stskeepsah, low level interpreter..06:45
Stskeeps"Anyway, the LLint -> C/ASM code generation can be done ahead of time for a given revision.?06:45
Stskeeps" supposedly06:46
BostikI'll have to look into that after this week06:46
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Stskeepselse i'm going to have to bite the bullet and add ruby06:49
Stskeepsmountain: remove the parts about api.pub.meego.com from $HOME/.oscrc and try again06:50
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Stskeepsmountain: remember to set proxy, etc06:51
StskeepsBostik: i think i'll bite the bullet and add ruby, there's no good reason why we should not06:52
Stskeepsby the rule that qtwebkit requires it06:52
Stskeepsit's not used for runtime, so06:52
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mountainStskeeps: it works after I remove the parts about api.pub.meego.com from $HOME/.oscrc, thanks06:53
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niqtmorning07:12
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BostikStskeeps: okay, we just have to keep it away from any images :)07:14
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ccssnetso does mer run on cortex a8 / mali 400?07:27
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Stskeepsshould07:28
ccssnetcool07:28
ccssneti got one in the mail :)07:28
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Stskeepswell, it depends on the SoC07:29
ccssnetemerson 4.3" tablet07:29
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ccssnetnot sure yet ill open it when i get it07:29
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Stskeepsmorn sledges08:20
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plfiorinihi09:48
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Stskeepsheya plfiorini, how is it going?09:49
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plfioriniStskeeps: good, you?09:49
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Stskeepsgood good, happy to be past our OS launch, now hacking on libhybris09:50
plfiorini:)09:50
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Stskeepshow's maui going?09:50
Ken-YoungStskeeps, Is there a place one could sign up for email notification once the Sailfish SDK becomes available?09:51
StskeepsKen-Young: don't know, sorry09:51
Bostikhow long did it take you to recover from (pre-) Slush crunch, by the way?09:51
plfioriniStskeeps: very good, desktop shell is almost ready for an initial development version and i'm already getting my feet wet for the OS09:51
Bostikbecause you all seemed pretty drained09:51
StskeepsBostik: there's a slush-flu going around, it is claiming a lot of energy09:52
Bostikonly expected, I guess :/09:52
plfiorinii would like to test mer on x86_64 desktop machines for now, but it seems Mer only supports 32bit systems, is that right?09:52
Stskeepsplfiorini: [ol] is working to bootstrap mer for it09:52
Stskeepsfrom scratch, so we can put on any systems09:53
plfioriniStskeeps: do you have any ETA?09:54
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Stskeepsplfiorini: this stuff takes time, but let's see how it goes09:55
Stskeepswe're in the bootstrap phase right now09:55
plfioriniok thanks09:57
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plfioriniStskeeps: do you have plans for secureboot?10:18
Stskeepsi think that belongs in hardware adaptation for us, if you mean the UEFI stuff10:18
Stskeepswe might have privacy framework in mer, but that's about as far as we go10:19
plfioriniyes10:19
Stskeepsie, something that talks to TPM chip or whatever10:19
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Stskeepsmorn faenil10:20
faenilmorn Stskeeps10:20
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faenilStskeeps, did I miss anything? https://www.facebook.com/JollaMobile/posts/55450103456373910:33
Stskeepsofficial is jollaofficial10:33
faenilyeah I know, that's why I'm asking10:34
faenilto know how reliable the source is10:35
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fAz4Is there any stable port of Sailfish OS on Samsung Galaxy Nexus ?10:40
kimjuhmm, "JollaOfficial" seems to like "JollaMobile", but also "JollaUnofficial". eh?10:41
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lbtfAz4: kimju there's10:44
lbt #jollamobile for sailfish/jolla chats :)10:44
fAz4lbt: kimju ?!10:45
lbtjust addressing you both - hit <return> when aiming for # :D10:46
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Stskeepslbt: & others: Mer release management meeting in 15 minutes?11:45
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lbtStskeeps: OK11:48
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lbtStskeeps: ping12:06
Stskeepspong12:06
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lbtshoulda pinged Sage and phaeron too I guess12:08
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lbtSage: did you try my test-case? --groupxml fails here12:28
Sageit fails12:29
lbtonly does one entry12:29
lbtsry - pasted wrong one ... --patternxml fails :)12:30
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Sagelbt: check TODO ;)12:31
lbtsounds broken if it can handle group but not patterns12:32
Sagewell, patterns is ment originally for one pattern per one file12:32
lbtwhy - it's the same source data12:33
Sageand now when there is only one souce and multiple outputs not sure what should be the name for the output files if there are multiple ones12:33
Sageif you output multiple patterns to one file it becomes groupxml :)12:33
lbtpatterns supports :  <patterns count="16">12:33
Sageyes, that is groupxml12:34
lbtno, that's pattern12:34
lbt<patterns count="16"><pattern xmlns:rpm="http://linux.duke.edu/metadata/rpm" xmlns:patterns="http://novell.com/package/metadata/suse/pattern" xmlns="http://novell.com/package/metadata/suse/pattern">12:34
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CosmoHillis the meeting happening in here?12:35
lbt<comps xmlns:rpm="http://linux.duke.edu/metadata/rpm"  also has the pattern xmlns: but uses <group>12:35
iekkuCosmoHill, #mer-meeting?12:35
CosmoHillah okay12:36
CosmoHillI'm not going to attend. I just wondered since lbt wanted sage and now they're talking in here12:36
Sagelbt:  validation error: Expecting element pattern, got patterns12:36
Sagelbt: patternxml is only <pattern> per file as obs expectes that12:36
lbthttp://repo.pub.meego.com/releases/Mer-Tools/6.1.0/builds/i486/packages/repodata/patterns.xml12:37
iekkuCosmoHill, they talk here there and everywhere :P12:38
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Sagelbt: yes but try osc meta pattern patname -F patterns.xml12:38
lbtso we have 2 usecases then12:39
lbtcreaterepo needs <patterns>12:39
CosmoHilliekku: hehe12:39
lbtobs uses the <pattern>/file mess12:39
Sagelbt: you mean   -g GROUPFILE, --groupfile=GROUPFILE12:40
Sage                        path to groupfile to include in metadata12:40
Sage?12:40
CosmoHilliekku: yesterday one of my friends was talking to me on facebook, msn, steam and texting me at the same time12:40
iekkuCosmoHill, no irc?12:40
Bostikwhere's the videocall?12:40
CosmoHillno irc and no webcam12:41
lbtSage: modifyrepo $RELEASEDIR/$RELEASE/builds/$NAME/packages/repodata/patterns.xml $RELEASEDIR/$RELEASE/builds/$NAME/packages/repodata/12:41
iekkuBostik, video when irc is missing? pyh pah12:41
Bostikiekku: hey, I'm one of those guys who start looking at black tape when they see an integrated webcam in their laptop :)12:41
Sagelbt: third usecase ;)12:42
CosmoHillguy?12:42
Sagelbt: createrepo takes group.xml file which seems quite similar to your patterns.xml file actually12:42
iekkuBostik, oh12:42
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CosmoHillBostik: i have a webcam on my windows laptop and it keeps telling me to plug my intergrated webcam into a usb2 port12:42
lbtyes - very similar, but different12:42
lbtI use : createrepo -g /tmp/groups.xml $RELEASEDIR/$RELEASE/builds/$NAME/packages/12:43
BostikCosmoHill: that error kindof makes sense when we know that integrated webcams generally are connected to motherboard via USB...12:43
Sagelbt: --groupsxml is ment for the createrepo case and --patternxml is for the osc. Didn't know about the modifyrepo ting12:44
Bostik(hw manufacturer skimping on USB controller and putting 1.1 where 2.0 was not strictly necessary? not possible)12:44
lbtit makes the actual pattern.xml for the repo that zypper gets12:44
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lbtso for non-obs created repos with patterns, you need it12:44
lbtI think it should optionally make a <patterns> file as well as individual <pattern> files12:45
CosmoHillBostik: it's some kinda fault in the laptop, it works until the laptop goes to sleep then it won't work until you reboot12:45
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mountainI add "Mer_Core_armv6l (armv7el)" repository manually with "osc meta prj ", and consequently can see it appears in web, but it's not there when I issued "osc repos" in MerSDK, has anyone met this?12:47
Sagelbt: what is the difference with groups.xml and patterns.xml only one line in the start?12:48
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lbtmmm12:48
lbtthe schema is very different12:48
Sagelbt: actually the current groups.xml is probably patterns.xml12:48
lbtno, it's not ..12:48
lbtwhere's my pastie12:48
lbtpastie.org/543723012:49
lbthttp://pastie.org/543718912:49
lbtfeel free to complain about re-inventing the wheel - wasn't me guv :)12:50
Sageso the groups.xml is actually the patterns.xml atm. :)12:51
lbtwhich doesn't work12:51
lbttbh I can't recall why we actually want patterns - I'm pretty damn sure we had a reason and we do though12:52
lbtlike not-worth-discussing-we-just-need-them enough :)12:53
lbtand it's trivial to do so it's not an issue12:53
SageI've using only single pattern files with obs12:53
lbtwell, Mer in particular does messing about with packages so needs to createrepo12:54
Stskeepsmountain: does it show when you do osc meta prj -e ?12:54
lbtTools does too but could probably use OBS12:54
lbtanyhow ... I need to go out for a couple of hours12:54
phaeronthing is : multiple single pattern files -> OBS -> one pattern file12:54
Sageyes12:54
lbtphaeron: yeah - we need to support that12:54
lbtalthough it's fricking stupid12:55
lbtwhy not have 1 line per file?12:55
lbtand name the files 001...002...003...12:55
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zhxtlbt: ping12:56
mountainStskeeps:yes, I add the armv6l repo with 'osc meta prj -e',12:56
lbtzhxt: pong12:56
zhxtwould you please create a Meego OBS account for me?12:56
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zhxtI want to build mer core for rpi.12:57
lbtzhxt: sure - where did you read that I would?12:57
zhxtwiki on mer project . about build mer core for rpi.12:57
lbtah, I corrected the instructions there12:57
lbtyou need to register on meego.com, then tell me12:58
mountainStskeeps: and the result of 'osc repos' is not exactly same as what it shows when 'osc meta prj -e'12:58
lbtthen tell me your account, that is12:58
zhxtyeah, I have one.12:58
zhxtsame as my irc name.12:58
lbtdone, have fun :)12:58
lbtnb - when did you register?12:59
zhxtthank you very much! :)12:59
lbtoh, *ages* ago!12:59
zhxtmany years ago... :p12:59
Stskeepsmountain: have you built any packages yet?12:59
zhxthehe. when meego was born. may  be.13:00
mountainI've build locally 'osc build Mer_Core_armv7l armv7el'13:00
lbtzhxt: welcome to Mer then :)13:00
* lbt goes afk for a few hours ... l8r o/13:01
zhxtlbt: thanks.13:02
Stskeepsmountain: interesting it doesn't show13:02
Stskeepswhat repo on build.pub.meego.com?13:03
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mountainI added the repo "Mer_Core_armv6l"  with "armv7el"arch (followed 'https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_architecture_naming') since there's no default option to choose from on web.13:05
mountainnow with 'osc repos' locally I can see I have "Mer_Core_armv7hl, Mer_Core_armv7l, Mer_Core_i486" while I see I have "Mer_Core_armv6l, Mer_Core_armv7l, Mer_Core_i486" from web.13:06
Stskeepsok, i meant, what project name :)13:06
mountainStskeeps: home:mountain:mer hello13:07
Stskeepsok, looking13:08
Stskeepsmountain: and what does your 'osc repos' output give right now?13:09
mountainit gives "Mer_Core_armv7hl  armv8el"; "Mer_Core_armv7l   armv7el"; "Mer_Core_i486     i586"13:10
Stskeepsthat's really bizarre13:10
Stskeepsmoment13:10
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Stskeepsmountain: http://pastie.org/544237113:13
Stskeepsmountain: is that same output as you?13:13
mountainno, but that's just what it supposed to be! :)13:14
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Stskeepsmountain: ok, so you probably have some corporate company proxy somewhere..13:15
mountainYes, I am using a company laptop with VPN, does that affects?13:16
Stskeepswell, see if it changes behaviour if you go off VPN13:16
mountainok, I'll try13:16
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zhxtlbt: when will that account work after enabled?13:18
Stskeepsinstantly, probably13:18
zhxthm...,  I still cant not login now.13:18
zhxtAuthentication failed13:19
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Stskeepswriting wayland backends are such fun13:36
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pqStskeeps, weston or egl?13:53
Stskeepsmaking a wayland-egl implementation13:54
Stskeepsso far the android bits are coming in very handy, from you guys13:54
Stskeepsi got multiprocess buffer sharing going with libhybris the other day13:54
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pqwhoa, congratulations :-)13:57
slaineIs it just me or is Tizen in total disarray ?13:57
Stskeepsslaine: not just you. i don't like the situation though as it means there might be less resources into useful non-android stuff like connman, etc13:58
slaineTrue, hadn't thought of that13:58
slaineThough, I'm still not convinced connman was the right answer for that problem13:58
slaineBut that's a different conversation13:58
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slaineI'm guessing that Samsung are making so much off Android they've lost the impetus to drive Bada and Tizen very hard. And Intel just never felt committed to Tizen in the same way they had been to Moblin/Meego14:00
Stskeepsi'll be looking forward to the news articles in 5 years as nda's expire14:00
Stskeeps:P14:00
* jukkaeklund_ starts counting when nokia nda expires14:01
slainelol14:01
slaineOn a call now to decide if we do move to ARM products or not14:02
slaineAny comments >14:02
slainelol14:02
Stskeepsit depends really - your use case may need significant cpu power for some things14:02
slaineNot really14:02
Stskeepsand how much hw adaptation people you have14:02
slaineHD media playback14:02
mikhaswait for Haswell?14:03
slaineWe're currently using Pinetrail Atoms14:03
slaineLikely having to use Cedartrail over the next few months, even if just for a product demo14:03
mikhasIf I had to plan products and was already using Intel, I would not switch right now.14:03
slaineThe question is can we wait for VallyView late next year or do we take the plunge14:04
mikhasBut then again, I am not doing such planning ;-)14:04
slainemikhas: I am :)14:04
slaineI flip flop between it14:04
slaineStskeeps: at the moment it's me, part time to hw adaptation14:04
slaineits relatively easy for our intel devices, I generally might just have to package up touchscreen drivers14:05
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slaineStskeeps: the bigger challenge coming up there will be Cedartrail support14:06
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bfederauHey. I'm using a OBS appliance and want to setup a local Mer fakeobs instance. Is it posible to use the obslight-fakeobs command inside the appliance or should I follow the manual from https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FakeOBS ?14:21
Stskeepsthe latter14:22
Stskeepswe don't maintain obslight-fakeobs14:22
bfederauok. thanks.14:23
Stskeepsand you probably want to use the mer OBS sw package14:26
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bfederauwhat is this mer OBS sw package? Does it contain a complete OBS instance/server for mer?14:36
Stskeepshttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup - we have special cross compilation, so14:40
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bfederauah ok and on pub.meego.com OBS you are using the mer OBS sw package? I'm asking this because on my local OBS I already build packages against MeeGo 1.2.0 and now I want to add Mer build targets.14:52
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Stskeepsyes14:54
Stskeepsbuilding agaisnt meego 1.2 should work too14:54
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Sagelbt: phaeron: so ideas what to do with repomd-pattern-builder ?14:58
phaeronSage: what's the problem there ?14:59
Sageit works for my osc/obs usage fine with single patterns in .yaml but for rest it is well not so good atm.14:59
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zhxtlbt: oops, my fault. Finally, I finger it out, missing a "pub" in that URL.  :p15:03
phaeronSage: shouldn't it be easy to add a --one-file mode which generates a single file with all patterns concatenated ?15:03
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Sagephaeron: well, that isn't the problem. as the current groupxml thing is patterns one-filemode :)15:47
phaeronSage: groups xml doesn't support all the features supported by patterns15:48
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[ol]Stskeeps: Progress report. As I mentioned yesterday, after fixing several bugs in sb2 and 2 bugs in qemu, I've succeeded building m4 for x86_64. However, building autoconf didn't work because it requires Perl. And building Perl failed because ... qemu doesn't support NPTL on x86 targets! Any program using threads dies with SIGSEGV under qemu.15:59
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[ol]Stskeeps: There is an unofficial patch for qemu to support NPTL on i386, but no luck for x86_64, and my knowledge of x86 segment registers is insufficient to judge whether the same approach is sufficient for x86_64.16:01
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[ol]Stskeeps: So, I've spent rest of last night to write a better cputransparency program which takes advantage of the fact that x86_64 programs can be run under SDK provided that the proper shared libraries are in LD_LIBRARY_PATH and the host's Linux kernel is built for x86_64 (mine is).16:03
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Stskeeps:nod:16:04
phaeronwow16:04
Stskeepsmakes sense16:04
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[ol]Stskeeps: My idea is to exec a different "sb2-show start ..." from cputransparency program. This sb2-show is build for x86_64 and it preloads libsb2.so.1 built for x86_64. However, it's still unclear to me how sb2-show makes cputransparency program load libsb2.so.1: there is no LD_PRELOAD env var set for cputransparency program.16:06
Stskeepsthere was something about being able to load a different libsb2.so.1.. let me see if i can find it16:10
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Stskeepsif there's no cpu transparency, ~/.scratchbox2/libsb2/targets/$target_basename/$library_interface/libsb2.so.1 may be useful16:11
[ol]This idea is based on assumption that I understand correctly that the target program is run using undocumented "start" subcommand of sb2-show program. At least, my strace analysis shows that there are 2 execve system calls in the process running the target program in absence of cputransparency program: sb2-show and then the target program itself. If there is cputransparency program, it's execed instead of the target program. Also, it's not documented, but I've found16:12
[ol]that cputransparency program is fun with following arguments: -L / TARGET_PROGRAM ARGS16:12
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[ol]What is $target_basename and $library_interface?16:13
Stskeepsit's in utils/sb216:13
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[ol]Strange. "sb2-show libraryinterface" outputs "127". What does it mean?16:16
Stskeepsthat's the version of the sb2 library, don't worry about that :)16:17
Stskeepsit's to make sure there's no binary incompatibilities16:17
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[ol]Strange. Even without cputransparency program it attempts to run "-L / /usr/bin/ls /" instead of "/usr/bin/ls /"...16:31
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[ol]Some lua rules seem to be involved.16:31
zuhStskeeps: ominously 127 is what shells tend to return for "command not found" ;)16:32
Stskeeps[ol]: yeah, qemu parameter -L16:32
[ol]Stskeeps: Yes. But how to get rid of it?16:32
Stskeeps[ol]: did you remove the -c parameter totally?16:33
[ol]sb2-init -d -L "--sysroot=/" -C "--sysroot=/" -m sdk-build -n -N -t / mer-core /opt/cross/bin/x86_64-meego-linux-gnu-gcc16:33
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Stskeepshmm16:36
Stskeepswhy on earth does it try -L then..16:36
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[ol]Uh oh. Another bug in sb2. :-)16:42
Stskeepsi think we've gone being bleeding edge now ;)16:43
Stskeepsbeyond16:43
[ol]Tt always adds "-L /", assuming cputransparency command is always qemu, even if there is no cputransparency command specified.16:44
Stskeepsah16:45
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Stskeepslbt: you seem to be liking links that seem porn-ish on facebook17:25
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Stskeepsis it intentional?17:25
Stskeeps:P17:25
lbt!17:26
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Stskeepsif it was, it's cool, but mostly it's not ;)17:27
lbtclever bastards :)17:27
Stskeepshttp://thepctool.com/2012/facebook-warning-avoid-how-awful-15-years-publicly-high-school-drunk-scam/ specifically17:28
lbta sensible Tango colleague had a strange 'like' so I had a look - was spam17:28
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CosmoHillwtf?17:29
lbtsomething on there clearly 'liked' in javascript or something17:29
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yuntashould I subscribe to fb ? ...17:32
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lbtyunta: there's no #mer-w ...17:33
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yuntaI'm tempted by your porn-ish links17:34
lbtHere, try this one: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/135255_10151354875514388_34024861_o.jpg17:34
CosmoHilllbt: what is that?17:35
lbtguess17:35
yuntawtf am I seeing, weird devices, lots of lube, cat food, kitten on it's side, sharp things, some white substance17:36
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CosmoHillsomething to do with a car heater?17:36
lbtnope17:36
yuntaall of this on kitchen table?17:36
lbtyup17:36
CosmoHilli was meant to get some copper greese today17:37
CosmoHillare they either end of some casing?17:38
lbtno, one unit17:38
shmerlReminds me of attempt to heal Nvidia card fan with lubricating oil. I had to drill two holes in the fan cover for that.17:38
CosmoHilllooks like a channel some liquid runs through to heat or cool it17:39
lbt+117:39
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CosmoHilliirc those white circles pop out under excess presure, oil cooler or some type17:40
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lbtthey don't pop out - that's cpu thermal transfer paste17:41
CosmoHillso that bit is a heatsink17:42
CosmoHilland the instant gasket is a decor17:42
lbtno, that was the main point of taking it apart17:42
CosmoHillthe two white tubes connect to something else don't they, not each other17:48
lbtcorrect17:48
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CosmoHillis it a heat exchanger?17:52
lbtno17:53
CosmoHillthat gold bit top left joining the big circule below the instant gasket is confusing me17:53
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lbtit's one outlet17:54
CosmoHilllooks like a dead end17:54
lbtwant to see the answer?17:55
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CosmoHillsure17:55
lbthttps://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/703542_10151354874859388_324693840_o.jpg17:55
CosmoHillthat's not an answer, I'm even more confused now17:56
lbtbest kind17:56
CosmoHillalso, how do you not get shouted at for having that in the kitchen?17:56
lbtpick wisely17:57
CosmoHilli should be fine once i move out my parents17:57
CosmoHillis that next to a toaster?17:57
lbtyep17:58
CosmoHillsee, i can identify that17:58
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RhymeswAcoffee grinder ??18:01
lbt:)18:01
lbtand the first phote?18:02
lbtphoto ?18:02
RhymeswAdefinitely porn ...18:02
lbtour kind *g*18:03
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Cosmo[PB]lbt: that's part of a coffee maker?18:05
RhymeswAthe pic with the 'copper ease' is most likely a Windows Phone attachment kit ...18:05
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lbtRhymeswA: no, you'd see the protective gear if I had one of them in the house18:06
RhymeswAya, ya18:06
lbtand the answer is.....18:07
lbt<drum roll>...18:07
lbt... the boiler/steam unit from the coffee maker :D18:07
CosmoHillhehe18:07
CosmoHilli'd say i thought so but you wouldn't believe me18:08
CosmoHillhow much coffee do you drink to have an industrial coffee maker?18:08
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lbt24298 shots18:10
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[ol]Regarding that pr0n photo... How pervert is this! A NAKED CARBURETOR!!!19:21
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[ol]And now for something completely different.19:47
[ol]Stskeeps: Do you know where Scranchbox2 development is located? I'd like to view its source code history.19:48
Stskeepsgitorious.org/scratchbox2/scratchbox219:49
Stskeeps2.3_development19:49
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[ol]Stskeeps: How can I switch to this branch? I'm reading git manual, but understand nothing.20:05
[ol]Oh, finally... After some try and error: git checkout -t remotes/origin/2.3_development20:06
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shmerlWhat's confusing is no way to report bugs in gitorious20:08
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shmerlThey probably intend to use some external bug tracker20:08
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[ol]What is preferable way to send git changes to the owners of a project?20:35
SpeedEvillonghand, on vellum.20:37
Stskeeps[ol]: on gitorious, merge requests20:37
Stskeepsbut it varies from project to project20:37
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[ol]Stskeeps: I can't. They have the same stupid 3-character limit on username. I'd prefer to sent patches by email. I'm wondering which format is preferable for that. Is the result of "git format-patch" sufficient? Should I specify some special parameters?20:39
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Stskeepsgit format-patch should also do, i guess20:39
Stskeepsbbl sleep20:40
[ol]Good night!20:40
rcg[ol], honestly, not meaning to sound offensive.. but you seem to be struggling so often with that short user name... why not go the pragmatic way and just use a longer one?20:42
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[ol]There are some reasons. Lots of people know me by that name, and I got used to it. Also, I'm very reluctant to register on others' sites, so it's not a problem usually. And, BTW most of reasonable sites use email as a username, so it's not a problem at all. On the other hand, some sites don't like '+' in username, but it's a completely different story...20:45
rcgi see20:47
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[ol]I wish more sites use OpenID, so I won't have to remember all those passwords. If a site has OpenID login, I'm much happier to use it. Gitorious has OpenID registration, but it's implemented the wrong way: they still require local username with minimum length limit of 3 characters, not allowing to use email or OpenID URL as the username.20:51
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Sfiet_Konstantin[ol]: kwbllet ?20:54
Sfiet_Konstantinkwallet Q20:54
Sfiet_Konstantincome on20:54
Sfiet_Konstantinkwallet ?20:54
[ol]Sfiet_Konstantin: And entering an additional password when I log in? And answering annoying question whether I want to save form fields every time I fill in forms on web sites? These are inconveniences I don't want to face.20:56
Sfiet_Konstantinhum yeah20:56
Sfiet_Konstantinbut is there so many new websites that you need to register out there ?20:57
shmerlMozilla persona is better than OpenID IMO.20:57
[ol]Fortunately, not so many.20:57
shmerlIt's easier to use for site developers.20:57
Sfiet_KonstantinI already feel that my whole life is scattered all around the web20:58
* rcg silently points into the direction of meepasswords20:59
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rcg;)20:59
rcg*in20:59
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shmerlKeepassX is a good manager too.21:00
shmerl(if you mean just to store them)21:00
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rcgwell, my point was that meepasswords is already available for nemo and can be run on plasma active via nemo-compatibility ;)21:01
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rcgbut well, that was just a little advertising ;)21:01
shmerlWhat encryption does it use by the way?21:03
[ol]Remembering passwords is actually not a big problem. What I really hate is nicknames. If a site requires to select a nickname to register, I usually just go away. I have a real name, I have an email, I have a website, why should I use a nickname? And if a site is popular enough, my favourite nickname is either already used, or the site has some artificial limit on nickname length.21:03
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shmerlMany password managers are actually bad. KeepassX is one of the really good ones.21:03
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shmerlSee http://media.blackhat.com/bh-eu-12/Belenko/bh-eu-12-Belenko-Password_Encryption-Slides.pdf21:05
rcgshmerl, iirc 256bit aes cbc21:05
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rcgshmerl, from the password a sha256 hash is calculated to encrypt the data21:07
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rcgso: password -> sha256 -> 256bit aes cbc21:07
shmerlThat sounds good.21:07
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shmerlHm, I just found this: https://gitorious.org/keepassx-4-mobile21:09
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shmerlBut it doesn't look active21:10
rcg:)21:11
rcgi always appreciate input on meepasswords21:11
rcgespecially when it is related to security and how to improve it21:11
shmerlDoes it encrypt the data in memory as well?21:12
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rcgit uses qca but the data is put into a qml model21:14
rcgso i think there is data in plaintext in memory while it is displayed21:14
rcgat least in the qml model21:15
shmerlI think it's one of the points in Keepassx that they encrypt memory (Keepass at least, actually I'm not 100% about the KeepassX version)21:15
rcgbut when the screensaver becomes active the user is automatically logged out21:15
rcgi see21:15
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shmerlSo it's a good to have feature.21:16
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rcgi would need to double check but i am pretty sure that on logout the memory is freed21:16
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rcgit's quite some time ago i looked into this the last time21:16
rcgshmerl, i see.. but i wonder how one would do this when using qt or qml based models and views for displaying the data21:17
shmerlYeah.21:17
rcgwouldn't there need to be at least one point in the model or view where the data is accessible in plaintext?21:17
shmerlActually keepassx uses Qt.21:17
rcgi see21:17
rcgwould be interesting to see how they did it21:18
shmerlWhile keepass uses C#/Mono I think.21:18
shmerlAnd I just know that keepass for sure encrypts it.21:18
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shmerlKeepassx might lack it actually.21:18
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rcgkk21:18
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shmerlBut if they do - the code is available.21:18
shmerlhttps://www.keepassx.org/downloads21:19
rcghehe, right.. but well.. the big ol' "time issue" kinda keeps on following me very closely21:20
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shmerlIn theory I don't think they use any kind of "trusted computing" stuff.21:22
rcgactually, the presentation was very interesting and i might look at that to further improve meepasswords.. or at least check if i avoided the biggest mistakes one could do21:22
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shmerlYep. In general I think it's one of the best managers around.21:22
rcgyou mean meepasswords?21:23
shmerlI mean keepassx (for the desktop)21:23
rcgright ;)21:24
shmerlOn mobile I didn't use them much yet.21:24
shmerlI'll take a look at meepasswords.21:24
rcgi didn't use it very much but it made a good impression21:24
rcg:)21:24
rcgit's intended to be a simple, mobile password safe21:24
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vgradew00t: http://pastie.org/5444668 swaplog output while running qtflyingbus21:39
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phaeronlbt: ping21:50
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vgradewatch out for Qt5 Beta 2 breakage, http://www.thelins.se/johan/blog/2012/11/changed-behaviour-in-qt-5-beta-2/22:14
CosmoHillhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/shortcuts/2012/nov/20/last-british-made-typewriter22:16
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shmerlDidn't they complete Babbage's analytical machine though?22:20
lbtphaeron: pong22:21
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phaeronlbt: never mind22:22
lbtok22:22
phaeronfound the issue22:22
lbtmds?22:22
phaeronthe structure script hadtypos22:22
lbtk22:22
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* lbt uses magnifying glass to read freeze frame of a video of a kernel panic on the lcd of a camera22:29
CosmoHillwhy not plug the camera into a computer?22:30
vgradelbt, been there22:30
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vgradeI have a tip there22:30
lbt...22:31
vgradeyou can slow down messages with kernel line options22:31
CosmoHillwhat would that line be?22:32
vgradeCONFIG_BOOT_PRINTK_DELAY=y22:32
vgradeor similar22:32
shmerlvgrade: By the way, did you hear about any progress of enabling PA/Mer on Nexus 7?22:33
* lbt finds typo in CONFIG_CMDLINE22:34
lbtshmerl: LWN :)22:34
shmerlAh, I didn't subscribe there. They wrote about Ubuntu though.22:34
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shmerlI guess PA still can have quirks without some adaptation.22:35
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phaeronlbt: thanks22:43
lbt? mobs workers?22:43
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phaeronyes22:45
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lbt12 now - good22:48
vgradeshmerl: I think kulve has had some success with nemo so PA port should be a breeeze22:48
phaeronlbt: yeah, thx22:49
shmerlWill anyone publish images for that?22:49
shmerlIf they'll be available I'll probably get a nexus 7, since waiting for Vivaldi seems to take forever.22:50
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vgradeshmerl: I've not seen any adaptation packages yet.22:52
shmerlOK, we'll have to wait for that I guess.22:52
shmerlWho usually works on packaging all that, basyskom?22:53
vgradeshmerl: but I did run up nemo and plasma active on mele A1000. An A10 based STB22:53
shmerlThat's a TV computer?22:53
vgradeshmerl: basyskom have done some work on archos A9 in the past. Other adaptations by community22:54
shmerlSounds interesting, but I need a tablet for books reading :)22:54
vgradeshmerl: but there is work going on to produce an A10 based tablet for Plasma Active22:55
shmerlI guess I'd need to ask in PA circles if anyone plans to package those for Nexus 7.22:55
shmerlYeah, I saw that (also on allwinner)22:56
shmerlBut who knows how long it'll take yet.22:56
lbtyay ... bash runs on a nook color using 3.0.822:57
lbtno keybd :/22:57
vgrade\o22:57
shmerlhttp://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/kde_tablet/22:58
vgradeshmerl: yae22:58
shmerlLooks like pretty involved in the middle yet.22:58
vgradeshmerl: there is more momemtum with A10 than amlogic but still lots to do. I'd say nexus 7 would be best platform23:00
vgradeScriptRipper: hi23:00
shmerlvgrade: That's what I think too, since it's mostly already functional, and the hardware is already here.23:00
shmerlThey just need to wrap things around and publish images to flush that stuff on.23:01
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vgradeshmerl: and nvidia are one of the best SoC vendors23:01
shmerlThey are very impressive - even moved to hardfp for their GPU.23:01
shmerlWhich is not very common for others.23:02
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ScriptRipperHi Martin Brook23:03
ScriptRipperHi vgrade23:04
ScriptRipperseems my notifications do no work in current IRC client23:04
SpeedEvilI wish there were proper tegra data sheets23:04
vgradeSpeedEvil: I wonder if the latest 2d drivers come with any docs23:08
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* CosmoHill goes to bed23:32
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RzRhttp://identi.ca/notice/98122043#HarmattanDev is Back23:50
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lbtmer_verify_kernel_config is actually really quite neat23:54
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