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| sonach | morning | 00:25 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 06:35 |
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| timoph | 'lo | 06:49 |
| Jucato | greatings | 06:49 |
| Jucato | oops. I meant greetings | 06:49 |
| timoph | close enough | 06:52 |
| timoph | :p | 06:52 |
| zchydem | morning | 06:59 |
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| vgrade_ | morning | 07:56 |
| Stskeeps | morn vgrade_ | 07:57 |
| vgrade_ | Stskeeps: no luck with swiping with the mouse yesterday. Any suggestions on where to start looking? | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | mcompositor should be running | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | and plugin installed for the getures | 08:01 |
| vgrade_ | ok, I've no mcompositor running | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | that's probably a good start | 08:04 |
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| l4mer | hello | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | morn l4mer | 08:05 |
| Bostik | morning | 08:05 |
| * Stskeeps dives into libhybris | 08:05 | |
| Stskeeps | now with autoconf, thanks to the OWO crowd | 08:06 |
| l4mer | I am porting CMT, HSI, SSI to new kernel. Seems I am able to load most of required modules, but now the question is how could I check if SSI, HSI, CMT works correctly. Is there any iface I can send eg. AT command to modem and check if HSI works fine? I never did "modem" staff before so don't know how to verify my work :) Any hints? | 08:09 |
| l4mer | I also see some SSI controller regs in debugfs with some value but ... :) | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | l4mer: look at ofono | 08:10 |
| dm8tbr | the modem speaks ISI not AT | 08:12 |
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| niqt | morning | 08:22 |
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| dcthang | morning | 08:27 |
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| vgrade_ | does mcompositor require GL | 08:38 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 08:38 |
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| vgrade_ | Stskeeps: not sure if mali has libGL | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | libGLSE | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | GLES | 08:47 |
| Bostik | GL Something Else, now that would be evil | 08:47 |
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| daniels | last i looked, mali was gles2-only | 09:06 |
| sroedal | gles3 as well now | 09:07 |
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| lbt | morning | 09:33 |
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| sledges | good mornan! | 10:41 |
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| vgrade_ | sledges: lbt morn | 11:06 |
| sledges | vgrade_, got the 'exit' message from you yesterday, too :)) | 11:07 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: message not for me ! lol | 11:07 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: got to learn how to use irssi | 11:08 |
| sledges | as in we both? ;D | 11:08 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: got a DM from lbt which went to window 11 | 11:08 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: always used alt <window num> before | 11:09 |
| sledges | :D there's no "11" key on the keyboard :D | 11:09 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: alt q to o if you need it | 11:10 |
| sledges | mwhahaha hope I won't :)) | 11:11 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: or alt < > | 11:11 |
| sledges | or Ctrl+N,P | 11:11 |
| dm8tbr | alt-a for next active window :) | 11:12 |
| sledges | ooooh nice! BoF ;) | 11:12 |
| kulve | or ESC <window num> | 11:12 |
| sledges | :D | 11:13 |
| dm8tbr | or you get a proper™ keyboard that goes to F23 ;) | 11:13 |
| timoph | on some systems alt-a just prints apples :) | 11:22 |
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| lbt | aportale: auri__: ping - all good? | 13:00 |
| henrik_ | lbt: care to do raw -> vdi magic: http://img.merproject.org/images/web/henrik/6-20121115-122245/ | 13:08 |
| lbt | will do | 13:08 |
| henrik_ | lbt: thanks. | 13:08 |
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| lbt | done | 13:13 |
| henrik_ | lbt: thanks. that version has now newer webapp. if you have time to comment the looks would be nice. It is better but i ain't no designer | 13:14 |
| henrik_ | zypper ref/up should do as well | 13:15 |
| lbt | doing that now | 13:16 |
| lbt | hmm - uses Mer 20120920 | 13:16 |
| lbt | can you update that to 20121115 | 13:16 |
| henrik_ | lbt: ah. just copied old .ks. I'll create another one | 13:17 |
| lbt | that's fair enough - I just thought myself | 13:17 |
| henrik_ | well, it gives change to test upgrade sdk :) | 13:18 |
| lbt | sdk-version | 13:18 |
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| henrik_ | lbt: at least the upgrade sdk button did what it suppose to do. Now Core repos point at version: 0.20121115.1, Tools repos point at version: 6.1.0 | 13:22 |
| lbt | excellent | 13:24 |
| lbt | I forgot we had that button! | 13:25 |
| henrik_ | wee | 13:25 |
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| henrik_ | tools went from rolling to 6.1.0 | 13:25 |
| lbt | yeah - I just saw that | 13:25 |
| lbt | well, it didn't work | 13:27 |
| lbt | it updated the repos but not the pkgs | 13:27 |
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| henrik_ | it does sdk-version --latest --go | 13:32 |
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| lbt | pfft | 13:36 |
| lbt | maybe that's not pushed ... grrr | 13:36 |
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| henrik_ | lbt: raw->vdi again: http://img.merproject.org/images//web/henrik/6-20121115-132446/ | 14:05 |
| lbt | converting | 14:12 |
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| zenvoid | lbt: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/nc-uboot-kernel.tar.gz | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: you had a nook color too? | 14:23 |
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| lbt | zenvoid: ty | 14:26 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: I have, but honestly I regret | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: ah, then we're three in this channel | 14:27 |
| zenvoid | :) | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | .. four | 14:28 |
| sledges | I have O2 Joggler within a hand's reach - worth plaing there what do you think? | 14:28 |
| zenvoid | i feel better now :) | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: well, at least we can't possibly do a worse system for the NC than what it has | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:28 |
| zenvoid | I destroyed it before accepting the license, so I actually never actually the original OS... | 14:30 |
| zenvoid | seen* | 14:30 |
| lbt | sledges: joggler has issues with gl driver | 14:31 |
| sledges | argh.. well it's still nothing better than a night stand clock anyway :) | 14:32 |
| lbt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PoulsboObsoleteDrivers | 14:32 |
| sledges | http://www.archos.com/products/home/archos_35_hc/index.html?country=gb&lang=en - would be good Joggler to show google maps+traffic when I wake up though ;) no gl required | 14:32 |
| zenvoid | my NC is turned into a device for arm native compilation, I think I should make a cluster with all those unused gadgets :) | 14:35 |
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| lbt | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsPoulsbo then | 14:36 |
| Jucato | hi. not sure whether to ask this here on in plasma active, but which layer (mer or the ux) would be providing ntfs read/write support (basically ntfs-3g packages)? | 14:39 |
| sledges | cheers lbt | 14:40 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: latest EMGD driver can be found in Tizen but whether they play well with Joggler is anyones guess | 14:41 |
| vgrade_ | sledges: http://download.tizen.org/snapshots/trunk/ivi/latest/repos/ivi-non-oss/ia32/packages/i586/ | 14:41 |
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| vgrade_ | sledges: http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/source/kernel/ | 14:42 |
| sledges | they seem to still maintain the O2 OS | 14:43 |
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| alterego | vgrade_: finally got my raspberry pi today :) | 14:51 |
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| alterego | vgrade_: I'll be hopefully playing with that this weekend :) | 14:51 |
| vgrade_ | alterego: what you planning ? | 14:52 |
| alterego | vgrade_: well, I was thinking either a kind of controller for my reprap, or a smart TV | 14:52 |
| vgrade_ | vgrade: I've seen something about 3d printer control with Pi | 14:53 |
| alterego | Yeah, I think I saw something a few weeks back where someone had a similar idea. | 14:54 |
| vgrade_ | alterego: Mer adaptation page on wiki and CE:Adaptation:RaspberryPi | 14:55 |
| alterego | vgrade_: yes. well whatever I do will be mer :) | 14:56 |
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| mikhas | smart tv, hm | 14:59 |
| mikhas | phako might be interested | 14:59 |
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| phako | what? | 15:00 |
| * phako reads | 15:00 | |
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| phako | smart tv as in set-top-box or with actual TV reception? | 15:02 |
| sledges | +1 "< alterego> vgrade_: yes. well whatever I do will be mer :)" | 15:04 |
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| auri__ | lbt: pong.. mgmt meeting | 15:20 |
| auri__ | lbt: polishing the kit addition a bit | 15:20 |
| auri__ | so that we get better error messages | 15:20 |
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| Stskeeps | evening fk_lx | 15:42 |
| fk_lx | hello Stskeeps :-) | 15:43 |
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| kallecarl | lbt: haven't heard from you in a while about QtDevDays in Silicon Valley. All good? | 15:53 |
| lbt | hey | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | kallecarl: i think we're a bit busy for slush launch next week :) | 15:53 |
| kallecarl | Stskeeps: hi | 15:53 |
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| shmerl | Hi. I tried to update the SDK target for Nemo/N950 recently. And get these kind of D-Bus related errors: http://pastie.org/5383209 | 16:48 |
| shmerl | Is it normal, or something is messed up? | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | there's a bug where sb2 doesn't tell the process it's in some sort of chroot | 16:50 |
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| shmerl | Ah, so it's a known bug. By the way, how can one report any bugs about Sb2? I couldn't figure that out on their project site. | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | complex :) | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | might be better simply to help patch it | 16:52 |
| shmerl | is this the one? https://maemo.gitorious.org/scratchbox2 | 16:52 |
| shmerl | There is no bug reporting option at all. | 16:52 |
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| Stskeeps | well, gitorious.org/scratchbox2 | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | report the bug in mer for now | 16:52 |
| shmerl | OK. Is this one known, or should I report it? | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | think it's known but not being taken of.. | 16:53 |
| shmerl | OK. | 16:54 |
| shmerl | By the way. What should "sb2 uname -a" produce for various targets? | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | that one's reported | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | ;P | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | er, :P | 16:54 |
| shmerl | When I do this: sb2 -t nemo-n950 uname -a | 16:55 |
| shmerl | I get this: Linux ... 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.32-1 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux | 16:55 |
| shmerl | Is armv7l correct there, since Nemo target is armv7hl? | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | hrm | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | armv7l is correct | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's what kernel would report | 16:56 |
| shmerl | OK, so it's a generic name for both cases. | 16:56 |
| shmerl | I.e. with hard and soft fp | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, armv7hl is an entirely userland thing | 16:57 |
| shmerl | I see | 16:57 |
| shmerl | Firefox build script pulls the arch name from uname. | 16:58 |
| shmerl | And creates a package based on that. | 16:58 |
| shmerl | But it's a bit misleading, since there can be 2 different cases with armv7l and armv7hl. | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | yup | 17:00 |
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| aportale | w00t: ping | 17:04 |
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| w00t | aportale: pong | 17:04 |
| aportale | w00t: do you configure http://github.com/nemomobile/qt-components with "-meego" ? | 17:05 |
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| w00t | aportale: yes | 17:05 |
| w00t | aportale: what OS are you building them to run on? nemo/mer | 17:06 |
| aportale | w00t: I tried first on Desktop and was missing a theme | 17:06 |
| w00t | yep | 17:06 |
| w00t | you'll need to install a theme package seperately | 17:06 |
| aportale | w00t: Oh.. right. just reading the readme :) | 17:06 |
| w00t | readme may be a little out of date, please let me know if you hit problem spots so i can fix that | 17:07 |
| aportale | w00t: some of the tests/examples have incompatible imports (com.nokia.meego instead of com.meego). | 17:08 |
| w00t | com.nokia.meego is correct | 17:08 |
| aportale | w00t: but "make install" puts them into com/meego | 17:09 |
| w00t | it puts them in both | 17:10 |
| w00t | com.meego was a legacy path, I think | 17:10 |
| aportale | w00t: Ah, right. Ok, Nokia it is then. | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | com.meego was.. well, i'm sure you know the story of meego ux and meego components | 17:10 |
| aportale | Stskeeps: I was told the story a few times, but it is too complicated to remeber :) | 17:11 |
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| Stskeeps | aportale: http://amhistory.si.edu/petersprints/objects/medium/2003-19875.jpg visualises it nicely | 17:13 |
| aportale | w00t: fyi, I am just having a look at how complicated it is to have qt-components support in Qt Creator. | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | (debate club gone too far) | 17:13 |
| w00t | aportale: oh, cool | 17:13 |
| shmerl | Stskeeps: Good one :) | 17:13 |
| w00t | aportale: i seem to have accidentally ended up maintaining them, so if you have questions, feel free to pester me | 17:13 |
| aportale | Stskeeps: :D I wonder who the one with the stick is. | 17:13 |
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| aportale | when using sbs2 on Mer in VirtualBox, file access is ultra slow. Anyone here who knows a cure against that? | 17:24 |
| aportale | "sb2 -t foo qmake -r" is much slower than "qmake -r" | 17:24 |
| * aportale typed sbs. Bad memories. | 17:25 | |
| vgrade | evening all | 17:25 |
| lbt | aportale: it's not sb2 - it's the fact that sb2 is reading the shared folder | 17:26 |
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| lbt | this is quite odd since fs level cache should take care of it | 17:27 |
| lbt | hey vgrade | 17:28 |
| aportale | lbt: Good point. My system may be misconfigured. I will try building in /tmp (on the Mer VM) | 17:29 |
| lbt | don't forget that the headers/target are on the host too | 17:29 |
| aportale | lbt: hold on.. but why is "qmake" then faster than "sb2 qmake" | 17:30 |
| aportale | lbt: Ah, true | 17:30 |
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| lbt | (and yes, next week we may review the 'export sysroot tarball' option!) | 17:30 |
| lbt | it sucks but then I wrongly assumed the virtualbox shared folder implementation was half-decent :/ | 17:31 |
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| shmerl | Hi vgrade | 17:38 |
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| aportale | w00t: do you "sb2 -t nemo ./configure -meego" or just "./configure -meego" ? | 17:43 |
| w00t | aportale: if i'm looking to crosscompile something, then it's always sb2 | 17:44 |
| w00t | i'm not sure if that exactly answers your question | 17:44 |
| aportale | w00t: so sb2 also for the configure step? | 17:44 |
| w00t | yes | 17:44 |
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| aportale | w00t: hmm. Ok. in my case sb2 configure takes a second and silently does nothing | 17:45 |
| w00t | that's usually a sign of missing a command | 17:45 |
| w00t | \package\whatever | 17:45 |
| shmerl | aportale: Did you install target development tools? | 17:46 |
| aportale | shmerl: I have fairly recent Mer image and Nemo target. Not sure of the tools, though. Is that an extra package? | 17:47 |
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| shmerl | Most tools like g++ and devel libs aren't installed by default. | 17:48 |
| shmerl | I don't think even "make" is. | 17:49 |
| w00t | depends on the rootfs he's using | 17:49 |
| w00t | lbt may have been nice enough to help him prepopulate it | 17:49 |
| shmerl | Yeah, I mean default Nemo images. | 17:49 |
| lbt | mmm | 17:49 |
| aportale | w00t, shmerl: this jewel by lbt has a lot of stuff preinstalled http://img.merproject.org/images//web/lbt/2-20121111-184729/ :) | 17:50 |
| kulve | any hints how to calibrate(?) xorg mtev driver? I seem to have the x/y directions corrent (panning works) but I can't hit the icons in the launcher/whatever | 17:50 |
| shmerl | Ah, I see. I usually do something like: sb2 -t nemo-n950 -m sdk-install -R zypper install gcc-c++ | 17:50 |
| shmerl | And the rest of devel whatever is needed. | 17:51 |
| lbt | aportale: this is qt-components ? | 17:51 |
| aportale | lbt: right | 17:51 |
| lbt | it's godawful slow in the SDK VM but it's working for me | 17:51 |
| vgrade | kulve: Option "Calibration" "0 1024 0 600" | 17:52 |
| kulve | I wonder why it doesn't take those from the kernel's evdev interface..? | 17:53 |
| kulve | or maybe it does but get confused because of rotation.. | 17:53 |
| vgrade | kulve: I've not had to use calibrate on andriod yet | 17:53 |
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| vgrade | kulve: also xinput utility may help | 17:55 |
| aportale | shmerl: thanks. Pasted that line to my snippets. For any case :) | 17:55 |
| shmerl | See https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2 for more examples. | 17:56 |
| lbt | hmm - you shouldn't need that | 17:59 |
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| Stskeeps | kulve: perhaps orientation is off? | 18:00 |
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| kulve | Stskeeps: at least I can pan left/right up/down properly | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 18:00 |
| kulve | evtest reports maximums being 2111, 1279 and it seems to go from 0 to those values properly according to evtest | 18:01 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade: hey, you have "yat" on r-pi wayland? | 18:01 |
| kulve | hmm.. xorg-x11-drv-mtev has no mention of Calibration according to grep.. | 18:02 |
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| vgrade | Stskeeps: yes I think I tried it but it had issue with <return> | 18:17 |
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| special | COBS clocks are being a pain again | 18:54 |
| special | "modification time 4.5e+02 s in the future" | 18:54 |
| kulve | Stskeeps: My initial guess is that the mtev driver doesn't work properly with swapped X/Y axis. Somehow it mixes the maximums | 18:56 |
| kulve | added a scaling to the driver and swapped the maximums in there (while actually trying to accomplish something else) and now it seems to match | 18:56 |
| kulve | i.e. ts works | 18:56 |
| Bostik | I had the problem with an old(er) instance of OBS and kludged around it by making the first command of %build a simple "find $WHAT_THAT_BUILD_ROOT_THING_WAS -exec touch {} \;" | 18:56 |
| Bostik | far from a solution but it helped when clocks were badly out of sync | 18:57 |
| Bostik | and no... I don't recommend using that | 18:57 |
| kulve | Stskeeps: even multitouch works :) | 18:58 |
| phaeron | cool! | 18:58 |
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| Stskeeps | kulve: cool :) | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: n7 i presume? | 18:58 |
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| kulve | yeah | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | good work | 19:01 |
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| vgrade | kulve: nice one | 19:03 |
| zuh | *groan* where do I find symbols for pthread? gdb shows the process sitting there but there is no symbols and the bt is fubar | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | zuh: glibc-debuginfo | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | is probably a good start | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | i really look forward to the day somebody makes a proper gdb replacement.. it really acts bizarre at times | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:04 |
| zuh | I don't see such in my current repos... | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | zuh: /etc/zypp/repos.d/mer-core.repo -> enable=1 for the debug | 19:06 |
| zuh | ah doh, I've done that before and have totally forgotten about it | 19:06 |
| zuh | thanks :) | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | no problem | 19:07 |
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| CosmoHill | hi gabrbedd | 19:11 |
| * Stskeeps ponders idly if CosmoHill's a bot | 19:11 | |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 19:11 |
| * dm8tbr gets popcorn while the two greet-bots start a discussion between each other... | 19:12 | |
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| CosmoHill | there's a reason a bot should never be programmed to respond to the word "pong" | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: so, you managed to build a cross-gcc after putting stuff into a sysroot? | 19:14 |
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| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: Hey bro! Long time! | 19:18 |
| CosmoHill | dm8tbr: see, i knew him | 19:19 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: you still at university? | 19:19 |
| CosmoHill | nah | 19:19 |
| CosmoHill | graduated october 2011 | 19:20 |
| CosmoHill | i knew you from #meego right? | 19:20 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: Indeed. | 19:20 |
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| CosmoHill | i did some work exp, got a job, lost said job | 19:21 |
| CosmoHill | and now here | 19:21 |
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| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: cool, uncool, cool. | 19:23 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: I'll know in about 15 days if I'm going to lose *my* job. :-) | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | i lost mine the end of oct | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | "merry christmas, now get the hell out"? | 19:25 |
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| gabrbedd | Yep. | 19:25 |
| gabrbedd | CosmoHill: where? | 19:26 |
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| CosmoHill | a web developer job not far from my town | 19:27 |
| CosmoHill | I'm off round my mates now, cyas later | 19:28 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: hope things turn out OK with you and the rest of the good guys at your company | 19:30 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: Thanks. | 19:32 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: It's been a fun year, though. :-) | 19:32 |
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| Stskeeps | gabrbedd: yeah, can imagine - hopefully somebody will see the need of somebody who knows how to make things that go beyond smartphones and plain tablets :) | 19:34 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade: could you try yat with eglfs? | 19:37 |
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| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: well, on the hardware side I think the trend will continue -- computer hardware will become more and more of a commodity (as opposed to an "innovative new thing") | 19:39 |
| gabrbedd | Stskeeps: but the demand for software is still good. :-) | 19:39 |
| gabrbedd | Computers/tablets/smartphones are becoming like bread. | 19:40 |
| Bostik | demand for software will not go out as long as there is demand for sanity :) | 19:40 |
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| * Stskeeps really wonders why enter and backspace doesn't work in yat | 19:55 | |
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| lbt | w00t: https://www.tizen.org/conference/tizen-developer-conference/schedule <-- I knew you'd be thrilled to see the keynote | 19:57 |
| w00t | oh my | 19:58 |
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| Stskeeps | special: do you have a qt5 build up? could you build github.com/jorgen/yat and see if enter and backspace works? | 19:58 |
| w00t | ..same place again? | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: 2012.. | 19:58 |
| w00t | oh | 19:59 |
| * w00t facepalms | 19:59 | |
| special | Stskeeps: I don't have one at the moment | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | ah ok | 19:59 |
| w00t | http://video.linux.com/videos/tizen-developer-conference-2012-opening-keynote-from-jim-zemlin even in video form! | 19:59 |
| lbt | I just wanted to remind you :) | 19:59 |
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| w00t | lbt: I thought they'd announced another one with the same schedule :) | 20:00 |
| lbt | got an email that mentioned it :) | 20:00 |
| dm8tbr | nobody would notice the difference... | 20:00 |
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| Stskeeps | w00t: any qt5 build going? can be macos x native | 20:01 |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: yat doesn't build on osx | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | it does in latest master | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:01 |
| w00t | hmm | 20:01 |
| * lbt looks for an online virtual karate course so he can inflict violence on mic | 20:01 | |
| * faenil thinks w00t is screwed | 20:02 | |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: I don't think so | 20:03 |
| w00t | ../backend/yat_pty.cpp:61:9: error: expected expression | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | hmmk | 20:03 |
| w00t | ah, though I think he just messed up and missed a : | 20:03 |
| w00t | I seem to be able to use it, yes | 20:04 |
| w00t | though it does not seem terribly stable | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | enter and backspace works fine? | 20:05 |
| w00t | yes | 20:05 |
| * Stskeeps ponders wth.. | 20:05 | |
| faenil | the author told me it could be unreliable as he wrote the parser and everything himself, just to learn psh | 20:06 |
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| faenil | pty* | 20:06 |
| faenil | as it was just an experiment | 20:06 |
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| vgrade | Stskeeps: will add to the list, I have A10 on the disk atm | 20:10 |
| vgrade | desk | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:10 |
| * Stskeeps grabs n9.. | 20:11 | |
| vgrade | Stskeeps: have a full day hacking tomorrow | 20:11 |
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| vgrade | Stskeeps: still same issue with plain eglfsrpi | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | ... | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | er, ... wasn't to you | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | ... was to my own stupidity | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | want to test xterm on x device.. | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | grabs n9 | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | .. no keyboard | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:30 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: I'm reading https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/SB2 , but I don't quite understand it. It's stated that SB2 is better than the old method, but it's unclear what the old method is and what it's all about. Lots of references to other stuff without links or explanation what that stuff is. | 20:44 |
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| vgrade | OK, NP | 20:46 |
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| [ol] | For example: "It is assumed you already have a functioning osc+build install on your computer." What is "osc+build"? How can I know whether I have it or not? | 20:47 |
| vgrade | [ol]: there saw an old version of scratchbox which was use in maemo days | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: okay, so that page is to explain about SB2 integration into OBS, we're not nearly there yet | 20:49 |
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| vgrade | [ol]: check out the sdk pages on the wiki for osc | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: so, you managed to get a binutils compiled fine and a gcc? (how'd you do the gcc?) | 20:49 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: Yes, I've built bootstrap gcc, which is just C compiler without any libraries. It doesn't require target glibc to be built. | 20:51 |
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| [ol] | Also, I've significantly reworked gcc.spec by removing some commented out lines and redundancies. | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:52 |
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| Stskeeps | [ol]: ok, that's a start - i think you could really just dump an already existing glibc, devel headers, kernel headers into your SDK's /opt/cross/x86_64-meego-linux-gnu/sys-root/ dir (in usr/include, usr/lib, etc) | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | and then you can go straight for a non-bootstrap gcc | 20:53 |
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| [ol] | I've found that package cross-ARCH-gcc depends on packages like cross-ARCH-glibc{,-devel,-headers} and cross-ARCH-kernel-headers, but I didn't find how to build them. So I've commented out these dependencies for bootstrap build. | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | for now, just uncomment them as we don't have those - it matters when you're in obs later | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | but those will be automatically generated | 20:55 |
| [ol] | How are they automatically generated? | 20:56 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: Also I don't have already existing glibc and headers. | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | can't you steal debian's? | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | just to shorten time a bit :) | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | that's a normal trick | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | the alternative is that you go in and cross-compile glibc/kernel-headers, with the bootstrap gcc and all the pain that comes with that | 20:58 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: Imagine that we have a completely new architecture. I's like to produce not only Mer port to x86_64, but also instructions on how to port it to a new architecture, without cheating like "take everything from another distribution already ported there". | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | evening sivang | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: alright, just wanting to let you know there's a shortcut :) | 20:59 |
| sivang | moo Stskeeps :) | 20:59 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: What kind of pain are you referencing to? This is a normal porting sequence: bootstrap GCC -> glibc -> full GCC. | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: mostly that the packaging isn't really built for it atm.. but should be plausible | 21:00 |
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| Stskeeps | and yes, it is a normal porting sequence | 21:00 |
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| sivang | [ol]: what arch / rebuild requirements? | 21:00 |
| sivang | err, prolly arm hf | 21:01 |
| [ol] | sivang: There's a brand new architecture recently arrived for Mer to be ported to: x86_64. This will be a very popular architecture for future computers. :-) | 21:02 |
| * lbt thinks x32 would be more useful tbh | 21:03 | |
| Stskeeps | well, the method [ol] is using means that you could do even x32 | 21:03 |
| lbt | unless you want to build webkit I suppose :) | 21:04 |
| [ol] | Or AArch64 in future, for example. | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: first off, you want to have kernel-headers in your target, it's pretty simple, check out the kernel-headers package | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | and you can do %define _prefix /opt/cross/armv7l-meego-linux-gnueabi/sys-root/usr/ | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | (insert x86_64 of own choice) | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | and add ARCH=arm or whatever into 'make' of your choice as needed | 21:04 |
| [ol] | BTW, why do you guys use GCC 4.6? There's GCC 4.7 branch from Linaro which already supports AArch64. | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | that'll yield you a kernel-headers you can install | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: it's a stability thing, 4.6 linaro was worked on quite a lot and is quite stable | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | we | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | 'll move to 4.7 at some point | 21:05 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: Yes, the step with kernel-headers is quite obvious, but I've found no spec file for cross-armv7hl-kernel-headers (I was using armv7hl as an example how to port). | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: yeah, on arm side it's basically "take output of kernel-headers package build for target, stuff it into /opt/cross/blahblah-gnu/sys-root/usr and export it over to x86 side so we can make cross compilers" | 21:07 |
| [ol] | Despite that this package actially exists: http://releases.merproject.org/obs-repos/Core:armv7hl:latest/Core_armv7hl/i586/cross-armv7hl-kernel-headers.rpm | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | that's where cross-armv7hl-kernel-headers come from | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | naturally it'd be better if we can generate a lot of this on x86 side | 21:08 |
| [ol] | But I found no SRPM for it. | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we don't do srpms - the git way is the canonical way of building it and the only way we can ensure a gpl compliant build | 21:09 |
| [ol] | Also, I found no SRPM for this, for example: http://releases.merproject.org/obs-repos/Core:armv7hl:latest/Core_armv7hl/i586/cross-armv7hl-glibc.rpm | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | if you're wondering, http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-crosshelpers/cross-template-inject.git;a=tree is what does the magic | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | really weird OBS magic in there | 21:09 |
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| [ol] | I've found it, but it doesn't do the trick, unfortunately. | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 21:10 |
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| Stskeeps | anyhow, kernel-headers .spec should be easy to turn into something that makes kernel headers that installs into the right /opt/cross dir | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | glibc is more interesting | 21:10 |
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| [ol] | First, it requires the native package like glibc or kernel-headers to be present already, and it just repackages all files into a new localtion. Second, resulting package names are cross-glibc-inject and cross-kernel-headers-inject, not cross-ARCH-glibc or cross-ARCH-kernel-headers. | 21:12 |
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| Stskeeps | [ol]: it's obs black magic, http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-crosshelpers/cross-template-inject.git;a=blob;f=cross-glibc-inject.spec;h=c3a418b6c41f10be178764c97d3d119b1fe26479;hb=HEAD#l150 is what does it | 21:14 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: So, do you advise me to build the respective cross packages by modifying kernel-headers and glibc spec files manually? | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | one that uses your bootstrap gcc | 21:16 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: I've noticed that the magic file "baselibs.conf" is being created in SOURCES dir, but I don't get what it's used for. | 21:16 |
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| Stskeeps | [ol]: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html -> interfaces -> osc -> quick reference -> L) baselibs.conf | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: it's basically RPM/deb post-processing | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | so it can do some magic tricks there | 21:18 |
| [ol] | Also, it would be useful to get a reference to documentation explaining build from Git. Currently I juct copy files to SPECS and SOURCES and invoke "rpmbuild -ba -v SPECFILE". | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | that's how i'd do it too, fwiw | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | for bootstrap phase | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | other possibilities are to use a sb2 target and rpmbuild in there/use a wrapper script that sets up SPECS/SOURCES etc for us | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | and also with OBS, farm builds or local builds | 21:20 |
| [ol] | Is there useful documentation for OBS explaining how to install and use it? | 21:21 |
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| Stskeeps | http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Tutorial - for use, for installing it's 1) install opensuse somewhere 2) use a script we have to set it up nicely for you | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | but we'll get to that when we're past bootstrap | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: btw, i appreciate the effort you're putting into this, it's something i've been wanting to do for a while but haven't had time | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | might help change how mer is being built | 21:24 |
| [ol] | And, another question before I forgot. There are lots of files generated by presheckin.sh from gcc.spec for cross-compiling for different architectures. All these files are the same, only package name is different. What's the reason to have these autogenerated files in Git repository? | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: the way we deliver sources atm uses the git tree verbatim | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | ie, this is what obs will see | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | and they're not always the same :) | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | some might have different Name: | 21:25 |
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| [ol] | Yes, the main point is not that they're mostly the same. The main point is that they are autogenerated. Why not tell OBS to run precheckin.sh script before starting build? | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: it comes down to some concerns about build scheduling performance and the setup sources are delivered with currently, but yes, that's a valid point | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | for now we live with it as it's mostly a cosmetic thing | 21:28 |
| [ol] | This cosmetic thing leads to lot of irrelevant changes when updating one of these packages. | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | otoh, the sources that are in git are truly the exact build scripts being used, to satisfy gpl compliance.. so it goes both ways | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, let's see where we get with glibc build with a cross compiler | 21:30 |
| [ol] | GPL does not require autogenerated files to be distributed/ | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | you may find good use of export PATH=/opt/cross/bin:$PATH in the spec file for glibc | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | and utilizing --target= | 21:30 |
| * sivang loves the bootstraping dance | 21:32 | |
| [ol] | One more question. I've found that many spec files have weird things starting with "-" in BuildRequires: directive. This is sintax error for RPM. I had to remove all this stuff. | 21:32 |
| sivang | [ol]: you mean, 'tablets' :) | 21:32 |
| sivang | [ol]: exopc? | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: not sure it's one for 'our' rpm | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | ah.. | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | right | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | obs modifies the spec file to not include those lines | 21:33 |
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| Stskeeps | as it's a way to make sure it doesn't include some dependencies (think circular dependencies) that would otherwise be in standard set of packages to be installed into the build chroot | 21:33 |
| [ol] | sivang: I have Lenovo Ideapad S10-3t, which can be a netbook or a tablet depending how you turn the screen. It has Intel Atom processor with x86_64 architecture. | 21:34 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: Does OBS define some kind of variable to be checked whether the package is built inside OBS or not? | 21:35 |
| sivang | [ol]: right, and this is the first time mer will be ported there? Stskeeps I thought it already ran on x86(-32) which is the same if you don't exploit _64 | 21:35 |
| * sivang away | 21:35 | |
| * sivang away afk | 21:35 | |
| sivang | err | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: not currently, but we can add one | 21:36 |
| [ol] | sivang: What's the point to use 32-bit OS on 64-bit computer? | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | feel free to add all these bugs to bugs.merproject.org as you notice them, it's our way of tracking technical debt | 21:36 |
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| [ol] | Actually, what's the reason to use 32-bit x86 now? Don't all modern x86 processors support x86_64? | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: sdk, vms, and some atom devices come with 64-bit not supported to my knowledge.. | 21:42 |
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| [ol] | SDK can be ported to x86_64. Normal VMs support x86_64 guests on x86_64 host. | 21:44 |
| sivang | [ol]: no point, I'd just assumed it would mean not too much work is req'd to do 64 bit, but I am obviously wrong :) | 21:44 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: but [ol] is right, more devices today are ia32-64 | 21:45 |
| sivang | (in the tablet / desktop domain) | 21:45 |
| [ol] | sivang: Also, as I mentioned earlier, porting to x86_64 can be a useful training for porting to something else. | 21:45 |
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| Stskeeps | add on top of that that most people don't run with 64-bit kernels :P | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | either way, we're drifting - i think a 32-bit sdk is perfectly fine but i can understand why people may want 64-bit targets | 21:46 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: Who are those people who run 32-bit kernels on 64-bit PCs? | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | people like me..? | 21:47 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: WHY? :-O | 21:47 |
| lbt | same reason x32 is a valid idea | 21:48 |
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| [ol] | This way you use half of the registers, and use just 32 bit of the registers you use. Also, you have to use some strange things like PAE instead of flat address space if you have more than 2 (or 3?) GB of RAM. | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: personal choice, i have to deal with a lot of bizarre software and hardware and 32-bit is just what it works with | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: for actual devices i'd go for what is most optimal | 21:49 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: I also use bizarre 32-bit only software (it's called Skype), but it works pretty well with multilib. | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | and i personally don't like multilib :P | 21:50 |
| shmerl | On the desktop - most people already switch to 64 bit OSes | 21:51 |
| shmerl | It's mobile that still majorly on 32 bit. | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | shmerl: there was this company starting with an i that thought it would be a brilliant idea to restrict their SDKs and VMs to certain processor types and abilities | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | shmerl: just because people like us use high end hardware, it doesn't mean that everybody has them | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | especially in emerging markets | 21:52 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: That's because it's implemented the wrong way. Instead of having separate lib and lib64, there should be just lib with 64-bit libraries visible to 64-bit applications and lib with 32-bit libraries visible to 32-bit applications. It can be easily achieved by namespaces and bind mounts. | 21:52 |
| shmerl | Well, even not so recent Dual Cores are all 64 bit. | 21:52 |
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| shmerl | 32 bit desktop processors aren't even produces by compain with "i" I think :) | 21:53 |
| shmerl | multilib is handled with multiarch for example. | 21:54 |
| shmerl | But Debian is just switching to it - it's kind of rough still. | 21:54 |
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| Stskeeps | anyhow. i486 is best generic sdk offering and it makes good sense to do x32 or x86_64 ports of mer | 21:55 |
| shmerl | Sure it's good to have both if especially some Atoms are 32 bit only. | 21:55 |
| [ol] | It restricts SDK to Intel processors! I want to run SDK on my Pandaboard! :-) | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: you know, you can | 21:56 |
| shmerl | It already supports MIPS even. | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's just a mer core + stuff on top | 21:56 |
| [ol] | I mean, Pandaboard as a host... | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | but we prioritise building the x86 parts and keeping those building | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 21:56 |
| shmerl | Ah. I never saw people using ARM to build stuff natively much :) | 21:57 |
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| shmerl | It's just not up to the task yet in comparison with multicore Intel/AMD | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | time for sleep i think | 21:57 |
| [ol] | Actually, it was a joke, Pandaboard is way slower than my good old Core 2 Duo. But very soon we'll see AArch64-based servers, and it's going to be a game changer. | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | aarch64 is also interesting but not sure how i see the device potential for it just yet | 21:58 |
| [ol] | shmerl: Fedora uses rack of Pandaboards to build Fedora-ARM. | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | except maybe for offloading tasks to for mobile devices | 21:58 |
| shmerl | May be. Now ARM also plan to expand into server CPUs. | 21:59 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: OBS on power-efficient AArch-64 cluster, for example. | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: well, already possible anyway | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, that's an option | 21:59 |
| shmerl | Embedded SPARCs never came out though :) | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: next steps from here is when you have a glibc of own built, add those into the sysroot, then you can probably do a full cross gcc, build some dependencies for glibc (zlib, as an example), do a full build there and you're good to go for the minimal list i showed you | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | err.. build some dependencies = set up sb2 target with your full gcc and then build packages within that | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 22:01 |
| [ol] | Stskeeps: It would be useful to have more information about SB2. | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | [ol]: http://maemo.gitorious.org/scratchbox2/scratchbox2/trees/2.3_development/docs , internals pdf | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | as well as https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2 | 22:03 |
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| [ol] | Stskeeps: OK, thank you! | 22:06 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: sb2 is not mandatory for SDK development using the SDK , though right? | 22:06 |
| sivang | (good for cross-comp, sure) | 22:06 |
| sivang | (mandatory, that is) | 22:07 |
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| sivang | so the plain story for creating packages and stuff, should be building on your machine arch for testing. Then upload changes to OBS, and it should build pkgs per arch | 22:13 |
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| [ol] | sivang: You mean building on your machine manually or using locally running OBS? | 22:20 |
| lbt | sivang: it will become highly recommended - even for x86 | 22:21 |
| sivang | lbt: you mean running your local obs? | 22:21 |
| lbt | ie we will use sb2 for 486 builds in platform SDK | 22:22 |
| sivang | ah | 22:22 |
| lbt | so the steps are the same for all architectures | 22:22 |
| lbt | currently I can't install 3 different targets to a single SDK | 22:22 |
| lbt | using sb2 I will be able to | 22:23 |
| lbt | (for 486) | 22:23 |
| lbt | I just haven't made/tested the SB2 486 install pattern yet | 22:23 |
| sivang | [ol]: I menat building on your one machine, yes.. | 22:23 |
| sivang | lbt: so total seperation of libs / deps compiled in / against ? | 22:24 |
| lbt | yes | 22:24 |
| sivang | lbt: otherwise if you'r on the same arch..:) | 22:24 |
| lbt | in fact the SDK 'should' have no headers | 22:24 |
| sivang | lbt: I see, makes sense. | 22:24 |
| sivang | lbt: how do you mean 'header's? | 22:24 |
| lbt | /usr/include/* | 22:25 |
| lbt | they'll live in /srv/target/XXX/usr/include where XXX can be Nemo_exoPC and/or Plasma_N9 and/or ... | 22:26 |
| sivang | ah okay, right | 22:26 |
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| faenil | has anyone ever ported the Sheet QML component to Symbian? | 22:35 |
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| sivang | lbt: ah going to present in usdevdays? | 22:58 |
| sivang | lbt: what about? | 22:58 |
| lbt | http://www.qtdeveloperdays.com/northamerica/mer-qt-what-meego-should-have-been | 22:59 |
| sivang | lbt: ist here any progress on vendor manuals/adaptation support a'la 'sane-default, but easy customization' ? :) | 23:01 |
| sivang | lbt: I've still not received a single feedback on that bug report | 23:01 |
| lbt | I've been busy :/ | 23:01 |
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| sivang | lbt: ah sure, okay, I was meaning from *more* people :) | 23:02 |
| lbt | yeah, I didn't take it that way :) | 23:03 |
| lbt | just it's something I mean to do | 23:03 |
| sivang | lbt: yes, sure. I know there are other priorities ahead | 23:03 |
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| sivang | lbt: are you going to demonstrate Zephyr? ;) ("demonstration of some technology that is guaranteed to be of interest to people looking to build Qt products now") | 23:05 |
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| lbt | libhybris | 23:05 |
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| lbt | if I can get my sodding nook to work | 23:06 |
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| sivang | lbt: :) | 23:10 |
| sivang | lbt: Stskeeps and you started libhybris or did you find something existant improved it? | 23:11 |
| lbt | it was an idea over drinks in Tampere at Devaamo and Stskeeps rattled off an implementation | 23:12 |
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| sivang | it's very cool/amazing | 23:14 |
| sivang | thank god for android being open source, I say. | 23:14 |
| lbt | true | 23:15 |
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| sivang | lbt: trying to follow libhybris a bit, is there somewhere somethign written about the architecture for better understanding? | 23:27 |
| lbt | no | 23:27 |
| lbt | don't worry, the code has a comment in it.... just the one mind you... | 23:27 |
| lbt | it says "// this is libhybris" or something equally helpful :) | 23:28 |
| sivang | lbt: there seems to be code from other authors as well, or from other projects? (APL and some other licenses spotted) | 23:28 |
| sivang | lbt: my kind of docs :) | 23:28 |
| * sivang contemplates writing the README | 23:28 | |
| CosmoHill | somebody has too | 23:29 |
| sivang | lbt: so to use this, I need an android device (I have an HTC Sense HD) the android kernel, and all userland can be Mer yes? | 23:29 |
| * sivang wonder if it has been tested on arm | 23:31 | |
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| * sivang checks if the WebOS Touchpad is indeed one | 23:32 | |
| sivang | bah it got late | 23:34 |
| * sivang heads to bed | 23:35 | |
| sivang | night all | 23:35 |
| lbt | sivang: tbh that's why I'm doing it | 23:35 |
| lbt | 'night | 23:35 |
| sivang | lbt: wait | 23:35 |
| sivang | lbt: how do you flash this sort of stuff onto an android device? I mean, you probably need to prepare an image that will have hybris and the android kernel inside already no? | 23:36 |
| sivang | I Might try on the desire, hence asking | 23:36 |
| * sivang back reading libhybris for a while until drops | 23:37 | |
| lbt | yeah, complex process. | 23:37 |
| sivang | so many things to do and learn in this new Mer era. | 23:37 |
| sivang | getting to hungry... | 23:38 |
| sivang | it is all real gorme | 23:38 |
| lbt | but, yes, essentially you need to do that | 23:38 |
| sivang | true. essential for having more android hardware around than any other, granted. | 23:38 |
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| sivang | s/for/due/ | 23:40 |
| lbt | booting | 23:41 |
| lbt | wrong window | 23:41 |
| sivang | lbt: I'll leave you to work, I must get some sleep but reading through libhybris in my vim is somewhat enchanting | 23:42 |
| sivang | feel drawned to it... | 23:42 |
| lbt | good | 23:42 |
| sivang | I must continue tomrrow.....must understand how it works..must..ZzzZzz | 23:43 |
| sivang | night | 23:43 |
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