Thursday, 2012-11-15

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chriadamgood morning00:29
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Jucatooops. I meant greetings06:49
timophclose enough06:52
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Stskeepsmorn vgrade_07:57
vgrade_Stskeeps: no luck with swiping with the mouse yesterday. Any suggestions on where to start looking?08:01
Stskeepsmcompositor should be running08:01
Stskeepsand plugin installed for the getures08:01
vgrade_ok, I've no mcompositor running08:03
Stskeepsthat's probably a good start08:04
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Stskeepsmorn l4mer08:05
* Stskeeps dives into libhybris08:05
Stskeepsnow with autoconf, thanks to the OWO crowd08:06
l4merI am porting CMT, HSI, SSI to new kernel. Seems I am able to load most of required modules, but now the question is how could I check if SSI, HSI, CMT works correctly. Is there any iface I can send eg. AT command to modem and check if HSI works fine? I never did "modem" staff before so don't know how to verify my work :) Any hints?08:09
l4merI also see some SSI controller regs in debugfs with some value but ... :)08:10
Stskeepsl4mer: look at ofono08:10
dm8tbrthe modem speaks ISI not AT08:12
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vgrade_does mcompositor require GL08:38
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vgrade_Stskeeps: not sure if mali has libGL08:46
BostikGL Something Else, now that would be evil08:47
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danielslast i looked, mali was gles2-only09:06
sroedalgles3 as well now09:07
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sledgesgood mornan!10:41
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vgrade_sledges: lbt morn11:06
sledgesvgrade_, got the 'exit' message from you yesterday, too :))11:07
vgrade_sledges: message not for me ! lol11:07
vgrade_sledges: got to learn how to use irssi11:08
sledgesas in we both? ;D11:08
vgrade_sledges: got a DM from lbt which went to window 1111:08
vgrade_sledges: always used alt <window num> before11:09
sledges:D there's no "11" key on the keyboard :D11:09
vgrade_sledges: alt q to o if you need it11:10
sledgesmwhahaha hope I won't :))11:11
vgrade_sledges: or alt < >11:11
sledgesor Ctrl+N,P11:11
dm8tbralt-a for next active window :)11:12
sledgesooooh nice! BoF ;)11:12
kulveor ESC <window num>11:12
dm8tbror you get a properâ„¢ keyboard that goes to F23 ;)11:13
timophon some systems alt-a just prints apples :)11:22
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lbtaportale: auri__: ping - all good?13:00
henrik_lbt: care to do raw -> vdi magic:
lbtwill do13:08
henrik_lbt: thanks.13:08
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henrik_lbt: thanks. that version has now newer webapp. if you have time to comment the looks would be nice. It is better but i ain't no designer13:14
henrik_zypper ref/up should do as well13:15
lbtdoing that now13:16
lbthmm - uses Mer 2012092013:16
lbtcan you update that to 2012111513:16
henrik_lbt: ah. just copied old .ks. I'll create another one13:17
lbtthat's fair enough - I just thought myself13:17
henrik_well, it gives change to test upgrade sdk :)13:18
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henrik_lbt: at least the upgrade sdk button did what it suppose to do. Now Core repos point at version: 0.20121115.1, Tools repos point at version: 6.1.013:22
lbtI forgot we had that button!13:25
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henrik_tools went from rolling to 6.1.013:25
lbtyeah -  I just saw that13:25
lbtwell, it didn't work13:27
lbtit updated the repos but not the pkgs13:27
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henrik_it does  sdk-version --latest --go13:32
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lbtmaybe that's not pushed ... grrr13:36
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henrik_lbt: raw->vdi again:
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Stskeepszenvoid: you had a nook color too?14:23
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lbtzenvoid: ty14:26
zenvoidStskeeps: I have, but honestly I regret14:27
Stskeepszenvoid: ah, then we're three in this channel14:27
Stskeeps.. four14:28
sledgesI have O2 Joggler within a hand's reach - worth plaing there what do you think?14:28
zenvoidi feel better now :)14:28
Stskeepszenvoid: well, at least we can't possibly do a worse system for the NC than what it has14:28
zenvoidI destroyed it before accepting the license, so I actually never actually the original OS...14:30
lbtsledges: joggler has issues with gl driver14:31
sledgesargh.. well it's still nothing better than a night stand clock anyway :)14:32
sledges - would be good Joggler to show google maps+traffic when I wake up though ;) no gl required14:32
zenvoidmy NC is turned into a device for arm native compilation, I think I should make a cluster with all those unused gadgets :)14:35
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lbt then14:36
Jucatohi. not sure whether to ask this here on in plasma active, but which layer (mer or the ux) would be providing ntfs read/write support (basically ntfs-3g packages)?14:39
sledgescheers lbt14:40
vgrade_sledges: latest EMGD driver can be found in Tizen but whether they play well with Joggler is anyones guess14:41
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sledgesthey seem to still maintain the O2 OS14:43
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alteregovgrade_: finally got my raspberry pi today :)14:51
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alteregovgrade_: I'll be hopefully playing with that this weekend :)14:51
vgrade_alterego: what you planning ?14:52
alteregovgrade_: well, I was thinking either a kind of controller for my reprap, or a smart TV14:52
vgrade_vgrade: I've seen something about 3d printer control with Pi14:53
alteregoYeah, I think I saw something a few weeks back where someone had a similar idea.14:54
vgrade_alterego: Mer adaptation page on wiki and CE:Adaptation:RaspberryPi14:55
alteregovgrade_: yes. well whatever I do will be mer :)14:56
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mikhassmart tv, hm14:59
mikhasphako might be interested14:59
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* phako reads15:00
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phakosmart tv as in set-top-box or with actual TV reception?15:02
sledges+1 "< alterego> vgrade_: yes. well whatever I do will be mer :)"15:04
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auri__lbt: pong.. mgmt meeting15:20
auri__lbt: polishing the kit addition a bit15:20
auri__so that we get better error messages15:20
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Stskeepsevening fk_lx15:42
fk_lxhello Stskeeps :-)15:43
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kallecarllbt: haven't heard from you in a while about QtDevDays in Silicon Valley. All good?15:53
Stskeepskallecarl: i think we're a bit busy for slush launch next week :)15:53
kallecarlStskeeps: hi15:53
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shmerlHi. I tried to update the SDK target for Nemo/N950 recently. And get these kind of D-Bus related errors:
shmerlIs it normal, or something is messed up?16:49
Stskeepsthere's a bug where sb2 doesn't tell the process it's in some sort of chroot16:50
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shmerlAh, so it's a known bug. By the way, how can one report any bugs about Sb2? I couldn't figure that out on their project site.16:51
Stskeepscomplex :)16:52
Stskeepsmight be better simply to help patch it16:52
shmerlis this the one?
shmerlThere is no bug reporting option at all.16:52
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Stskeepsreport the bug in mer for now16:52
shmerlOK. Is this one known, or should I report it?16:53
Stskeepsthink it's known but not being taken of..16:53
shmerlBy the way. What should "sb2 uname -a" produce for various targets?16:54
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Stskeepsthat one's reported16:54
Stskeepser, :P16:54
shmerlWhen I do this: sb2 -t nemo-n950 uname -a16:55
shmerlI get this: Linux ... 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.32-1 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux16:55
shmerlIs armv7l correct there, since Nemo target is armv7hl?16:55
Stskeepsarmv7l is correct16:56
Stskeepsit's what kernel would report16:56
shmerlOK, so it's a generic name for both cases.16:56
shmerlI.e. with hard and soft fp16:56
Stskeepsyeah, armv7hl is an entirely userland thing16:57
shmerlI see16:57
shmerlFirefox build script pulls the arch name from uname.16:58
shmerlAnd creates a package based on that.16:58
shmerlBut it's a bit misleading, since there can be 2 different cases with armv7l and armv7hl.16:59
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aportalew00t: ping17:04
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w00taportale: pong17:04
aportalew00t: do you configure with "-meego" ?17:05
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w00taportale: yes17:05
w00taportale: what OS are you building them to run on? nemo/mer17:06
aportalew00t: I tried first on Desktop and was missing a theme17:06
w00tyou'll need to install a theme package seperately17:06
aportalew00t: Oh.. right. just reading the readme :)17:06
w00treadme may be a little out of date, please let me know if you hit problem spots so i can fix that17:07
aportalew00t: some of the tests/examples have incompatible imports ( instead of com.meego).17:08 is correct17:08
aportalew00t: but "make install" puts them into com/meego17:09
w00tit puts them in both17:10
w00tcom.meego was a legacy path, I think17:10
aportalew00t: Ah, right. Ok, Nokia it is then.17:10
Stskeepscom.meego was.. well, i'm sure you know the story of meego ux and meego components17:10
aportaleStskeeps: I was told the story a few times, but it is too complicated to remeber :)17:11
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Stskeepsaportale: visualises it nicely17:13
aportalew00t: fyi, I am just having a look at how complicated it is to have qt-components support in Qt Creator.17:13
Stskeeps(debate club gone too far)17:13
w00taportale: oh, cool17:13
shmerlStskeeps: Good one :)17:13
w00taportale: i seem to have accidentally ended up maintaining them, so if you have questions, feel free to pester me17:13
aportaleStskeeps: :D I wonder who the one with the stick is.17:13
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aportalewhen using sbs2 on Mer in VirtualBox, file access is ultra slow. Anyone here who knows a cure against that?17:24
aportale"sb2 -t foo qmake -r" is much slower than "qmake -r"17:24
* aportale typed sbs. Bad memories.17:25
vgradeevening all17:25
lbtaportale: it's not sb2 - it's the fact that sb2 is reading the shared folder17:26
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lbtthis is quite odd since fs level cache should take care of it17:27
lbthey vgrade17:28
aportalelbt: Good point. My system may be misconfigured. I will try building in /tmp (on the Mer VM)17:29
lbtdon't forget that the headers/target are on the host too17:29
aportalelbt: hold on.. but why is "qmake" then faster than "sb2 qmake"17:30
aportalelbt: Ah, true17:30
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lbt(and yes, next week we may review the 'export sysroot tarball' option!)17:30
lbtit sucks but then I wrongly assumed the virtualbox shared folder implementation was half-decent :/17:31
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shmerlHi vgrade17:38
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aportalew00t: do you "sb2 -t nemo ./configure -meego" or just "./configure -meego" ?17:43
w00taportale: if i'm looking to crosscompile something, then it's always sb217:44
w00ti'm not sure if that exactly answers your question17:44
aportalew00t: so sb2 also for the configure step?17:44
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aportalew00t: hmm. Ok. in my case sb2 configure takes a second and silently does nothing17:45
w00tthat's usually a sign of missing a command17:45
shmerlaportale: Did you install target development tools?17:46
aportaleshmerl: I have fairly recent Mer image and Nemo target. Not sure of the tools, though. Is that an extra package?17:47
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shmerlMost tools like g++ and devel libs aren't installed by default.17:48
shmerlI don't think even "make" is.17:49
w00tdepends on the rootfs he's using17:49
w00tlbt may have been nice enough to help him prepopulate it17:49
shmerlYeah, I mean default Nemo images.17:49
aportalew00t, shmerl: this jewel by lbt has a lot of stuff preinstalled  :)17:50
kulveany hints how to calibrate(?) xorg mtev driver? I seem to have the x/y directions corrent (panning works) but I can't hit the icons in the launcher/whatever17:50
shmerlAh, I see. I usually do something like: sb2 -t nemo-n950 -m sdk-install -R zypper install gcc-c++17:50
shmerlAnd the rest of devel whatever is needed.17:51
lbtaportale: this is qt-components ?17:51
aportalelbt: right17:51
lbtit's godawful slow in the SDK VM but it's working for me17:51
vgradekulve:     Option          "Calibration" "0 1024 0 600"17:52
kulveI wonder why it doesn't take those from the kernel's evdev interface..?17:53
kulveor maybe it does but get confused because of rotation..17:53
vgradekulve: I've not had to use calibrate on andriod yet17:53
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vgradekulve: also xinput utility may help17:55
aportaleshmerl: thanks. Pasted that line to my snippets. For any case :)17:55
shmerlSee for more examples.17:56
lbthmm - you shouldn't need that17:59
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Stskeepskulve: perhaps orientation is off?18:00
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kulveStskeeps: at least I can pan left/right up/down properly18:00
kulveevtest reports maximums being 2111, 1279 and it seems to go from 0 to those values properly according to evtest18:01
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Stskeepsvgrade: hey, you have "yat" on r-pi wayland?18:01
kulvehmm.. xorg-x11-drv-mtev has no mention of Calibration according to grep..18:02
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vgradeStskeeps: yes I think I tried it but it had issue with <return>18:17
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specialCOBS clocks are being a pain again18:54
special"modification time 4.5e+02 s in the future"18:54
kulveStskeeps: My initial guess is that the mtev driver doesn't work properly with swapped X/Y axis. Somehow it mixes the maximums18:56
kulveadded a scaling to the driver and swapped the maximums in there (while actually trying to accomplish something else) and now it seems to match18:56
kulvei.e. ts works18:56
BostikI had the problem with an old(er) instance of OBS and kludged around it by making the first command of %build a simple "find $WHAT_THAT_BUILD_ROOT_THING_WAS -exec touch {} \;"18:56
Bostikfar from a solution but it helped when clocks were badly out of sync18:57
Bostikand no... I don't recommend using that18:57
kulveStskeeps: even multitouch works :)18:58
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Stskeepskulve: cool :)18:58
Stskeepskulve: n7 i presume?18:58
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Stskeepsgood work19:01
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vgradekulve: nice one19:03
zuh*groan* where do I find symbols for pthread? gdb shows the process sitting there but there is no symbols and the bt is fubar19:03
Stskeepszuh: glibc-debuginfo19:04
Stskeepsis probably a good start19:04
Stskeepsi really look forward to the day somebody makes a proper gdb replacement.. it really acts bizarre at times19:04
zuhI don't see such in my current repos...19:05
Stskeepszuh: /etc/zypp/repos.d/mer-core.repo -> enable=1 for the debug19:06
zuhah doh, I've done that before and have totally forgotten about it19:06
zuhthanks :)19:06
Stskeepsno problem19:07
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CosmoHillhi gabrbedd19:11
* Stskeeps ponders idly if CosmoHill's a bot19:11
* dm8tbr gets popcorn while the two greet-bots start a discussion between each other...19:12
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CosmoHillthere's a reason a bot should never be programmed to respond to the word "pong"19:13
Stskeeps[ol]: so, you managed to build a cross-gcc after putting stuff into a sysroot?19:14
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: Hey bro! Long time!19:18
CosmoHilldm8tbr: see, i knew him19:19
gabrbeddCosmoHill: you still at university?19:19
CosmoHillgraduated october 201119:20
CosmoHilli knew you from #meego right?19:20
gabrbeddCosmoHill: Indeed.19:20
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CosmoHilli did some work exp, got a job, lost said job19:21
CosmoHilland now here19:21
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: cool, uncool, cool.19:23
gabrbeddCosmoHill: I'll know in about 15 days if I'm going to lose *my* job. :-)19:24
CosmoHilli lost mine the end of oct19:24
CosmoHill"merry christmas, now get the hell out"?19:25
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gabrbeddCosmoHill: where?19:26
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CosmoHilla web developer job not far from my town19:27
CosmoHillI'm off round my mates now, cyas later19:28
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: hope things turn out OK with you and the rest of the good guys at your company19:30
gabrbeddStskeeps: Thanks.19:32
gabrbeddStskeeps: It's been a fun year, though. :-)19:32
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Stskeepsgabrbedd: yeah, can imagine - hopefully somebody will see the need of somebody who knows how to make things that go beyond smartphones and plain tablets :)19:34
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Stskeepsvgrade: could you try yat with eglfs?19:37
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gabrbeddStskeeps: well, on the hardware side I think the trend will continue -- computer hardware will become more and more of a commodity (as opposed to an "innovative new thing")19:39
gabrbeddStskeeps: but the demand for software is still good. :-)19:39
gabrbeddComputers/tablets/smartphones are becoming like bread.19:40
Bostikdemand for software will not go out as long as there is demand for sanity :)19:40
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* Stskeeps really wonders why enter and backspace doesn't work in yat19:55
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lbtw00t: <-- I knew you'd be thrilled to see the keynote19:57
w00toh my19:58
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Stskeepsspecial: do you have a qt5 build up? could you build and see if enter and backspace works?19:58
w00t..same place again?19:58
Stskeepsw00t: 2012..19:58
* w00t facepalms19:59
specialStskeeps: I don't have one at the moment19:59
Stskeepsah ok19:59
w00t even in video form!19:59
lbtI just wanted to remind you :)19:59
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w00tlbt: I thought they'd announced another one with the same schedule :)20:00
lbtgot an email that mentioned it :)20:00
dm8tbrnobody would notice the difference...20:00
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Stskeepsw00t: any qt5 build going? can be macos x native20:01
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w00tStskeeps: yat doesn't build on osx20:01
Stskeepsit does in latest master20:01
* lbt looks for an online virtual karate course so he can inflict violence on mic20:01
* faenil thinks w00t is screwed 20:02
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w00tStskeeps: I don't think so20:03
w00t../backend/yat_pty.cpp:61:9: error: expected expression20:03
w00tah, though I think he just messed up and missed a :20:03
w00tI seem to be able to use it, yes20:04
w00tthough it does not seem terribly stable20:05
Stskeepsenter and backspace works fine?20:05
* Stskeeps ponders wth..20:05
faenilthe author told me it could be unreliable as he wrote the parser and everything himself, just to learn psh20:06
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faenilas it was just an experiment20:06
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vgradeStskeeps: will add to the list, I have A10 on the disk atm20:10
* Stskeeps grabs n9..20:11
vgradeStskeeps: have a full day hacking tomorrow20:11
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vgradeStskeeps: still same issue with plain eglfsrpi20:28
Stskeepser, ... wasn't to you20:29
Stskeeps... was to my own stupidity20:30
Stskeepswant to test xterm on x device..20:30
Stskeepsgrabs n920:30
Stskeeps.. no keyboard20:30
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[ol]Stskeeps: I'm reading , but I don't quite understand it. It's stated that SB2 is better than the old method, but it's unclear what the old method is and what it's all about. Lots of references to other stuff without links or explanation what that stuff is.20:44
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vgradeOK, NP20:46
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[ol]For example: "It is assumed you already have a functioning osc+build install on your computer." What is "osc+build"? How can I know whether I have it or not?20:47
vgrade[ol]: there saw an old version of scratchbox which was use in maemo days20:48
Stskeeps[ol]: okay, so that page is to explain about SB2 integration into OBS, we're not nearly there yet20:49
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vgrade[ol]: check out the sdk pages on the wiki for osc20:49
Stskeeps[ol]: so, you managed to get a binutils compiled fine and a gcc? (how'd you do the gcc?)20:49
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[ol]Stskeeps: Yes, I've built bootstrap gcc, which is just C compiler without any libraries. It doesn't require target glibc to be built.20:51
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[ol]Also, I've significantly reworked gcc.spec by removing some commented out lines and redundancies.20:52
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Stskeeps[ol]: ok, that's a start - i think you could really just dump an already existing glibc, devel headers, kernel headers into your SDK's /opt/cross/x86_64-meego-linux-gnu/sys-root/ dir (in usr/include, usr/lib, etc)20:53
Stskeepsand then you can go straight for a non-bootstrap gcc20:53
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[ol]I've found that package cross-ARCH-gcc depends on packages like cross-ARCH-glibc{,-devel,-headers} and cross-ARCH-kernel-headers, but I didn't find how to build them. So I've commented out these dependencies for bootstrap build.20:55
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Stskeepsfor now, just uncomment them as we don't have those - it matters when you're in obs later20:55
Stskeepsbut those will be automatically generated20:55
[ol]How are they automatically generated?20:56
[ol]Stskeeps: Also I don't have already existing glibc and headers.20:57
Stskeepscan't you steal debian's?20:57
Stskeepsjust to shorten time a bit :)20:57
Stskeepsthat's a normal trick20:57
Stskeepsthe alternative is that you go in and cross-compile glibc/kernel-headers, with the bootstrap gcc and all the pain that comes with that20:58
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[ol]Stskeeps: Imagine that we have a completely new architecture. I's like to produce not only Mer port to x86_64, but also instructions on how to port it to a new architecture, without cheating like "take everything from another distribution already ported there".20:58
Stskeepsevening sivang20:58
Stskeeps[ol]: alright, just wanting to let you know there's a shortcut :)20:59
sivangmoo Stskeeps :)20:59
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[ol]Stskeeps: What kind of pain are you referencing to? This is a normal porting sequence: bootstrap GCC -> glibc -> full GCC.20:59
Stskeeps[ol]: mostly that the packaging isn't really built for it atm.. but should be plausible21:00
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Stskeepsand yes, it is a normal porting sequence21:00
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sivang[ol]: what arch / rebuild requirements?21:00
sivangerr, prolly arm hf21:01
[ol]sivang: There's a brand new architecture recently arrived for Mer to be ported to: x86_64. This will be a very popular architecture for future computers. :-)21:02
* lbt thinks x32 would be more useful tbh21:03
Stskeepswell, the method [ol] is using means that you could do even x3221:03
lbtunless you want to build webkit I suppose :)21:04
[ol]Or AArch64 in future, for example.21:04
Stskeeps[ol]: first off, you want to have kernel-headers in your target, it's pretty simple, check out the kernel-headers package21:04
Stskeepsand you can do %define _prefix /opt/cross/armv7l-meego-linux-gnueabi/sys-root/usr/21:04
Stskeeps(insert x86_64 of own choice)21:04
Stskeepsand add ARCH=arm or whatever into 'make' of your choice as needed21:04
[ol]BTW, why do you guys use GCC 4.6? There's GCC 4.7 branch from Linaro which already supports AArch64.21:04
Stskeepsthat'll yield you a kernel-headers you can install21:05
Stskeeps[ol]: it's a stability thing, 4.6 linaro was worked on quite a lot and is quite stable21:05
Stskeeps'll move to 4.7 at some point21:05
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[ol]Stskeeps: Yes, the step with kernel-headers is quite obvious, but I've found no spec file for cross-armv7hl-kernel-headers (I was using armv7hl as an example how to port).21:06
Stskeeps[ol]: yeah, on arm side it's basically "take output of kernel-headers package build for target, stuff it into /opt/cross/blahblah-gnu/sys-root/usr and export it over to x86 side so we can make cross compilers"21:07
[ol]Despite that this package actially exists:
Stskeepsthat's where cross-armv7hl-kernel-headers come from21:07
Stskeepsnaturally it'd be better if we can generate a lot of this on x86 side21:08
[ol]But I found no SRPM for it.21:08
Stskeepsyeah, we don't do srpms - the git way is the canonical way of building it and the only way we can ensure a gpl compliant build21:09
[ol]Also, I found no SRPM for this, for example:
Stskeepsif you're wondering,;a=tree is what does the magic21:09
Stskeepsreally weird OBS magic in there21:09
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[ol]I've found it, but it doesn't do the trick, unfortunately.21:10
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Stskeepsanyhow, kernel-headers .spec should be easy to turn into something that makes kernel headers that installs into the right /opt/cross dir21:10
Stskeepsglibc is more interesting21:10
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[ol]First, it requires the native package like glibc or kernel-headers to be present already, and it just repackages all files into a new localtion. Second, resulting package names are cross-glibc-inject and cross-kernel-headers-inject, not cross-ARCH-glibc or cross-ARCH-kernel-headers.21:12
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Stskeeps[ol]: it's obs black magic,;a=blob;f=cross-glibc-inject.spec;h=c3a418b6c41f10be178764c97d3d119b1fe26479;hb=HEAD#l150 is what does it21:14
[ol]Stskeeps: So, do you advise me to build the respective cross packages by modifying kernel-headers and glibc spec files manually?21:15
Stskeepsone that uses your bootstrap gcc21:16
[ol]Stskeeps: I've noticed that the magic file "baselibs.conf" is being created in SOURCES dir, but I don't get what it's used for.21:16
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Stskeeps[ol]: -> interfaces -> osc -> quick reference -> L) baselibs.conf21:18
Stskeeps[ol]: it's basically RPM/deb post-processing21:18
Stskeepsso it can do some magic tricks there21:18
[ol]Also, it would be useful to get a reference to documentation explaining build from Git. Currently I juct copy files to SPECS and SOURCES and invoke "rpmbuild -ba -v SPECFILE".21:18
Stskeepsthat's how i'd do it too, fwiw21:18
Stskeepsfor bootstrap phase21:19
Stskeepsother possibilities are to use a sb2 target and rpmbuild in there/use a wrapper script that sets up SPECS/SOURCES etc for us21:19
Stskeepsand also with OBS, farm builds or local builds21:20
[ol]Is there useful documentation for OBS explaining how to install and use it?21:21
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Stskeeps - for use, for installing it's 1) install opensuse somewhere 2) use a script we have to set it up nicely for you21:23
Stskeepsbut we'll get to that when we're past bootstrap21:23
Stskeeps[ol]: btw, i appreciate the effort you're putting into this, it's something i've been wanting to do for a while but haven't had time21:23
Stskeepsmight help change how mer is being built21:24
[ol]And, another question before I forgot. There are lots of files generated by from gcc.spec for cross-compiling for different architectures. All these files are the same, only package name is different. What's the reason to have these autogenerated files in Git repository?21:24
Stskeeps[ol]: the way we deliver sources atm uses the git tree verbatim21:24
Stskeepsie, this is what obs will see21:24
Stskeepsand they're not always the same :)21:24
Stskeepssome might have different Name:21:25
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[ol]Yes, the main point is not that they're mostly the same. The main point is that they are autogenerated. Why not tell OBS to run script before starting build?21:25
Stskeeps[ol]: it comes down to some concerns about build scheduling performance and the setup sources are delivered with currently, but yes, that's a valid point21:28
Stskeepsfor now we live with it as it's mostly a cosmetic thing21:28
[ol]This cosmetic thing leads to lot of irrelevant changes when updating one of these packages.21:29
Stskeepsotoh, the sources that are in git are truly the exact build scripts being used, to satisfy gpl compliance.. so it goes both ways21:29
Stskeepsanyhow, let's see where we get with glibc build with a cross compiler21:30
[ol]GPL does not require autogenerated files to be distributed/21:30
Stskeepsyou may find good use of export PATH=/opt/cross/bin:$PATH in the spec file for glibc21:30
Stskeepsand utilizing --target=21:30
* sivang loves the bootstraping dance21:32
[ol]One more question. I've found that many spec files have weird things starting with "-" in BuildRequires: directive. This is sintax error for RPM. I had to remove all this stuff.21:32
sivang[ol]: you mean, 'tablets' :)21:32
sivang[ol]: exopc?21:32
Stskeeps[ol]: not sure it's one for 'our' rpm21:33
Stskeepsobs modifies the spec file to not include those lines21:33
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Stskeepsas it's a way to make sure it doesn't include some dependencies (think circular dependencies) that would otherwise be in standard set of packages to be installed into the build chroot21:33
[ol]sivang: I have Lenovo Ideapad S10-3t, which can be a netbook or a tablet depending how you turn the screen. It has Intel Atom processor with x86_64 architecture.21:34
[ol]Stskeeps: Does OBS define some kind of variable to be checked whether the package is built inside OBS or not?21:35
sivang[ol]: right, and this is the first time mer will be ported there? Stskeeps I thought it already ran on x86(-32) which is the same if you don't exploit _6421:35
* sivang away21:35
* sivang away afk21:35
Stskeeps[ol]: not currently, but we can add one21:36
[ol]sivang: What's the point to use 32-bit OS on 64-bit computer?21:36
Stskeepsfeel free to add all these bugs to as you notice them, it's our way of tracking technical debt21:36
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[ol]Actually, what's the reason to use 32-bit x86 now? Don't all modern x86 processors support x86_64?21:42
Stskeeps[ol]: sdk, vms, and some atom devices come with 64-bit not supported to my knowledge..21:42
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[ol]SDK can be ported to x86_64. Normal VMs support x86_64 guests on x86_64 host.21:44
sivang[ol]: no point, I'd just assumed it would mean not too much work is req'd to do 64 bit, but I am obviously wrong :)21:44
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sivangStskeeps: but [ol] is right, more devices today are ia32-6421:45
sivang(in the tablet / desktop domain)21:45
[ol]sivang: Also, as I mentioned earlier, porting to x86_64 can be a useful training for porting to something else.21:45
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Stskeepsadd on top of that that most people don't run with 64-bit kernels :P21:46
Stskeepseither way, we're drifting - i think a 32-bit sdk is perfectly fine but i can understand why people may want 64-bit targets21:46
[ol]Stskeeps: Who are those people who run 32-bit kernels on 64-bit PCs?21:47
Stskeepspeople like me..?21:47
[ol]Stskeeps: WHY? :-O21:47
lbtsame reason x32 is a valid idea21:48
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[ol]This way you use half of the registers, and use just 32 bit of the registers you use. Also, you have to use some strange things like PAE instead of flat address space if you have more than 2 (or 3?) GB of RAM.21:49
Stskeeps[ol]: personal choice, i have to deal with a lot of bizarre software and hardware and 32-bit is just what it works with21:49
Stskeeps[ol]: for actual devices i'd go for what is most optimal21:49
[ol]Stskeeps: I also use bizarre 32-bit only software (it's called Skype), but it works pretty well with multilib.21:50
Stskeepsand i personally don't like multilib :P21:50
shmerlOn the desktop - most people already switch to 64 bit OSes21:51
shmerlIt's mobile that still majorly on 32 bit.21:51
Stskeepsshmerl: there was this company starting with an i that thought it would be a brilliant idea to restrict their SDKs and VMs to certain processor types and abilities21:51
Stskeepsshmerl: just because people like us use high end hardware, it doesn't mean that everybody has them21:52
Stskeepsespecially in emerging markets21:52
[ol]Stskeeps: That's because it's implemented the wrong way. Instead of having separate lib and lib64, there should be just lib with 64-bit libraries visible to 64-bit applications and lib with 32-bit libraries visible to 32-bit applications. It can be easily achieved by namespaces and bind mounts.21:52
shmerlWell, even not so recent Dual Cores are all 64 bit.21:52
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shmerl32 bit desktop processors aren't even produces by compain with "i" I think :)21:53
shmerlmultilib is handled with multiarch for example.21:54
shmerlBut Debian is just switching to it - it's kind of rough still.21:54
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Stskeepsanyhow. i486 is best generic sdk offering and it makes good sense to do x32 or x86_64 ports of mer21:55
shmerlSure it's good to have both if especially some Atoms are 32 bit only.21:55
[ol]It restricts SDK to Intel processors! I want to run SDK on my Pandaboard! :-)21:56
Stskeeps[ol]: you know, you can21:56
shmerlIt already supports MIPS even.21:56
Stskeepsit's just a mer core + stuff on top21:56
[ol]I mean, Pandaboard as a host...21:56
Stskeepsbut we prioritise building the x86 parts and keeping those building21:56
shmerlAh. I never saw people using ARM to build stuff natively much :)21:57
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shmerlIt's just not up to the task yet in comparison with multicore Intel/AMD21:57
Stskeepstime for sleep i think21:57
[ol]Actually, it was a joke, Pandaboard is way slower than my good old Core 2 Duo. But very soon we'll see AArch64-based servers, and it's going to be a game changer.21:58
Stskeepsaarch64 is also interesting but not sure how i see the device potential for it just yet21:58
[ol]shmerl: Fedora uses rack of Pandaboards to build Fedora-ARM.21:58
Stskeepsexcept maybe for offloading tasks to for mobile devices21:58
shmerlMay be. Now ARM also plan to expand into server CPUs.21:59
[ol]Stskeeps: OBS on power-efficient AArch-64 cluster, for example.21:59
Stskeeps[ol]: well, already possible anyway21:59
Stskeepsbut yeah, that's an option21:59
shmerlEmbedded SPARCs never came out though :)22:00
Stskeeps[ol]: next steps from here is when you have a glibc of own built, add those into the sysroot, then you can probably do a full cross gcc, build some dependencies for glibc (zlib, as an example), do a full build there and you're good to go for the minimal list i showed you22:00
Stskeepserr.. build some dependencies = set up sb2 target with your full gcc and then build packages within that22:01
[ol]Stskeeps: It would be useful to have more information about SB2.22:02
Stskeeps[ol]: , internals pdf22:03
Stskeepsas well as
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[ol]Stskeeps: OK, thank you!22:06
sivangStskeeps: sb2 is not mandatory for SDK development using the SDK , though right?22:06
sivang(good for cross-comp, sure)22:06
sivang(mandatory, that is)22:07
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sivangso the plain story for creating packages and stuff, should be building on your machine arch for testing. Then upload changes to OBS, and it should build pkgs per arch22:13
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[ol]sivang: You mean building on your machine manually or using locally running OBS?22:20
lbtsivang: it will become highly recommended - even for x8622:21
sivanglbt: you mean running your local obs?22:21
lbtie we will use sb2 for 486 builds in platform SDK22:22
lbtso the steps are the same for all architectures22:22
lbtcurrently I can't install 3 different targets to a single SDK22:22
lbtusing sb2 I will be able to22:23
lbt(for 486)22:23
lbtI just haven't made/tested the SB2 486 install pattern yet22:23
sivang[ol]: I menat building on your one machine, yes..22:23
sivanglbt: so total seperation of libs / deps compiled in / against ?22:24
sivanglbt: otherwise if you'r on the same arch..:)22:24
lbtin fact the SDK 'should' have no headers22:24
sivanglbt: I see, makes sense.22:24
sivanglbt: how do you mean 'header's?22:24
lbt /usr/include/*22:25
lbtthey'll live in /srv/target/XXX/usr/include   where XXX can be Nemo_exoPC and/or Plasma_N9 and/or ...22:26
sivangah okay, right22:26
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faenilhas anyone ever ported the Sheet QML component to Symbian?22:35
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sivanglbt: ah going to present in usdevdays?22:58
sivanglbt: what about?22:58
sivanglbt: ist here any progress on vendor manuals/adaptation support a'la 'sane-default, but easy customization' ? :)23:01
sivanglbt: I've still not received a single feedback on that bug report23:01
lbtI've been busy :/23:01
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sivanglbt: ah sure, okay, I was meaning from *more* people :)23:02
lbtyeah, I didn't take it that way :)23:03
lbtjust it's something I mean to do23:03
sivanglbt: yes, sure. I know there are other priorities ahead23:03
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sivanglbt: are you going to demonstrate Zephyr? ;) ("demonstration of some technology that is guaranteed to be of interest to people looking to build Qt products now")23:05
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lbtif I can get my sodding nook to work23:06
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sivanglbt: :)23:10
sivanglbt: Stskeeps and you started libhybris or did you find something existant improved it?23:11
lbtit was an idea over drinks in Tampere at Devaamo and Stskeeps rattled off an implementation23:12
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sivangit's very cool/amazing23:14
sivangthank god for android being open source, I say.23:14
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sivanglbt: trying to follow libhybris a bit, is there somewhere somethign written about the architecture for better understanding?23:27
lbtdon't worry, the code has a comment in it.... just the one mind you...23:27
lbtit says "// this is libhybris" or something equally helpful :)23:28
sivanglbt: there seems to be code from other authors as well, or from other projects? (APL and some other licenses spotted)23:28
sivanglbt: my kind of docs :)23:28
* sivang contemplates writing the README23:28
CosmoHillsomebody has too23:29
sivanglbt: so to use this, I need an android device (I have an HTC Sense HD) the android kernel, and all userland can be Mer yes?23:29
* sivang wonder if it has been tested on arm23:31
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* sivang checks if the WebOS Touchpad is indeed one23:32
sivangbah it got late23:34
* sivang heads to bed23:35
sivangnight all23:35
lbtsivang: tbh that's why I'm doing it23:35
sivanglbt: wait23:35
sivanglbt: how do you flash this sort of stuff onto an android device? I mean, you probably need to prepare an image that will have hybris and the android kernel inside already no?23:36
sivangI Might try on the desire, hence asking23:36
* sivang back reading libhybris for a while until drops23:37
lbtyeah, complex process.23:37
sivangso many things to do and learn in this new Mer era.23:37
sivanggetting to hungry...23:38
sivangit is all real gorme23:38
lbtbut, yes, essentially you need to do that23:38
sivangtrue. essential for having more android hardware around than any other, granted.23:38
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lbtwrong window23:41
sivanglbt: I'll leave you to work, I must get some sleep but reading through libhybris in my vim is somewhat enchanting23:42
sivangfeel drawned to it...23:42
sivangI must continue tomrrow.....must understand how it works..must..ZzzZzz23:43
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