Sunday, 2012-11-04

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Stskeepsmorn07:42
niqtmorn07:43
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situHi all08:43
Stskeepsmorn situ08:44
situWhat's up ?08:45
Stskeepsmot much, waking up08:45
situI was reading Linus's latest rant : https://plus.google.com/u/1/+LinusTorvalds/posts/8KBkzumMEc108:45
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Stskeepshe's doing an awful lot of ranting nowadays..08:55
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situStskeeps: who added newpath.patch in blts-opengles2-tests ?09:05
Stskeepssitu: possibly me09:05
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lbtmorning09:32
Stskeepsmorn lbt09:32
DocScrutinizer05moin09:32
DocScrutinizer05sorry for silly question, but what's state (and URL) of current support for N900?09:32
DocScrutinizer05somebody over at #maemo came up with this URL: http://web.archive.org/web/20110703120502/http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot  :-o09:34
Stskeepsyes, uboot-pr1309:35
Stskeepsand the warnings are needed09:35
Stskeeps:P09:35
DocScrutinizer05I gather that's not exactly the recommended location nor method nor meego version09:35
Stskeepsclose enough09:35
Stskeepshttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N90009:36
DocScrutinizer05thanks09:36
situStskeeps: I made SRs for remaining blts packages.09:39
Stskeepsthank you09:40
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CosmoHillmorning10:59
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Stskeepshello nyl11:22
nylhi :)11:22
Stskeepsnyl: welcome to #mer :) so what brings you here?11:22
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nylbeing a nokia n900 user11:23
nyltells everything11:23
nyl:)11:23
Stskeepsah :)11:23
Stskeeps#nemomobile might interest you too then11:23
nyladded it to favs11:23
nyldo you know if easydebian has a irc channel11:24
nyl?11:24
Stskeepsnop11:24
Stskeepsqole doesn't really irc anymore11:24
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Stskeepsdzien dobry jstaniek11:25
nyli wanna install a flash plugin11:25
nyli used to use gnash variant on powerpc mac was damns slow11:26
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vgrademorning12:24
CosmoHillafternoon12:28
rcgg'day12:30
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rcghey Venemo, any more insights from the nemo home-screen survey?12:32
Venemorcg, I've written an initial post, but haven't had more time for the stuff yet12:36
Venemorcg, but if you're interested, I can share the survey with you on google docs12:36
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rcgVenemo, yeah, i've seen you initial post. :)12:46
rcgwas just curious if you had any more insights right now.. and also been curious what kind of useful information one can draw from such a survey12:46
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rcgpersonally, i think, it's very challenging to evaluate questionairs about user UI preferences as most things are pretty difficult to put into "hard" figures as this is very much about taste and personal preference12:47
rcgso, my general interest is (besides the actual results) on how you deal with this difficult task :)12:48
yuntalbt_away: 7271, complains about .changes file missing. can you point me to TFM to R ?12:54
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Venemorcg, ah, I understand13:09
Venemowell, qwazix and myself have been thinking about the UI for some time.13:10
Venemobut it's hard to decide what features should be more prominent and what not13:10
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Venemoso when we discuss new ideas (even if they look good or seem good) the hardest thing is to figure out how much the actual users will like them13:11
Venemoso that was the primary purpose of this survey13:12
rcgaye, i see.. i can imagine.. it's generally very nice that you are trying to get user feedback :) .. even though this may make things even more complicated ;)13:15
rcgdo you also consider providing customization options, such that users can configure the look and feel (at least to certain degree) themselves?13:16
Venemoyes, I do13:16
rcgcool :)13:16
Venemobut first and foremost, I want to provide a sensible default experience13:16
rcgdo you package the qml files in the binary or make them accessible via the filesystem?13:16
rcgyeah, sure :)13:16
VenemoI package them in the binary, but the plan is to make it themeable by loading qmls from the file system13:17
Venemoone example of the conclusions: although many people use widgets, most of them think that widgets are ineffective and add too much clutter to the UI.13:18
Venemofrom this, I conclude that widgets are not very important, what's important is to let the user see what's important13:18
rcgi see13:19
rcgsound sensible13:19
rcg*sounds13:19
Venemoalso, even if we add widgets functionality, it's essential that we don't allow the screen to be cluttered13:20
Venemothere were very few people (there were, but really very few) who explicitly want a free-to-drag widgets surface13:21
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Venemorcg, also, many people noted that the traditional app grid is very boring. they want to categorize or customize it13:26
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rcgaye, i agree with the widget thingie.. with respect to the app grid: would be interesting to see what you guys come up with :)13:29
rcgi am not really creative when it comes to ui design.. the best thing, imho, i did was the qml-treeview as used in my qtodo app13:29
Venemo:)13:29
rcgVenemo, http://ruedigergad.com/2011/08/14/qml-treeview/13:30
Venemorcg, yeah, nice :)13:31
rcgthis is the initial post i think.. i reworked it a little bit but in general that's how it works13:31
rcgthx :)13:31
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nylcan i dualboot mer and maemo?13:33
nylon the n90013:33
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Venemonyl, yes you can13:39
nylany documentation13:46
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Venemonyl, this is the only one I could find: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N900 however I never tried on an N900 so I can't really help you13:47
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nylhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcpb0oAY3S814:08
nylthey will surely release kernel source14:08
nyl100bucks14:09
nyltablet14:09
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CosmoHillQPR vs Reading is a bit confusing since both home colours are blue and white strips14:15
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StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: out of curiousity, what did you want to try to do with wayland?14:50
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: currently nothing14:51
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Sfiet_Konstantinjust learning about the future14:52
Stskeeps:nod: but something you'd like to be more involved with?14:52
Sfiet_Konstantinand see how Qt5 behave14:52
Sfiet_Konstantinwrite my compositor with Qt514:53
Stskeepswhat devices do you have?14:53
Sfiet_KonstantinN9 N95014:53
Sfiet_KonstantinLenovo X20014:53
Stskeeps:nod:14:54
Stskeepsdid you try out the zephyr image yet?14:54
Stskeepson virtualbox14:54
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, works well14:54
Sfiet_Konstantinexcept enter on term14:54
Stskeeps:nod: not entirely sure why that happens14:54
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm waiting for 1.0 support in Qt514:55
Stskeepsmight be some stupid scancode stuff14:55
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah14:55
Stskeepsshould be coming soon14:55
Sfiet_Konstantinxkbcomm ?14:55
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm gonna try the patch today on the lenovo14:55
Stskeepsthis is the funny part, it works okay in anything but the terminal :P14:55
Sfiet_Konstantinah ...14:55
Sfiet_Konstantinstrange14:55
Stskeepsi'm hoping to start really ramping up the zephyr work soon, so just poking around about who might want to be along for the ride :)14:56
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm missing one formfactor …14:56
Sfiet_Konstantinthe tablet14:56
Sfiet_Konstantin:(14:56
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Stskeepswell, if things go just right, you can grab a off-the-shelf android tablet..14:57
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm waiting for that14:57
Sfiet_Konstantinor exopc maybe ?14:57
Stskeepsexo isn't bad but i wouldn't pay money for it..14:57
Stskeeps:P14:57
Stskeepstheir exodesk however..14:57
Sfiet_Konstantin:p14:58
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat makes me sad is that the playbook might be part of Qt future, but cannot run mer14:59
timophhmmh14:59
timophsince when zypper talks finnish in mer?15:00
Stskeepstimoph: heh :)15:00
Sfiet_Konstantin:D15:00
Stskeepstimoph: is your locale set to finnish?15:00
timophmight be. didn't explicitly set it. just built the image15:00
timophfor raspi15:00
timophmight have picked up the locale from the host15:01
Stskeepsmaybe15:01
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: maybe no much Zephyr for me now … A lot of work :(15:04
Stskeeps:nod:15:04
timophyep. LANG=fi_FI.UTF-815:05
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vgradeSfiet_Konstantin: wayland 1.0 patches were pushed to Qt gerrit yesterday15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinvgrade: I checked them out15:41
Sfiet_Konstantinbut now, I got some mess with mesa :(15:41
Stskeepsmesa's always a joy15:41
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kulvewhat parses the desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart/?16:27
Stskeepsuxlaunch16:28
kulvewhat that replaced by something?16:28
kulvemy latest nemo image doesn't seem to include uxlaunch at all16:30
kulvewas it nemo-mobile-session?16:32
kulveyes, it Obsoletes: uxlaunch16:34
kulveJust wondering if the parameters in the Exec lines are really handled in those .desktop files..16:36
phaeronno longer used, now systemd user session is used16:39
kulvetar.xz .. who uses something like that..16:42
fk_lxpeople that want smaller archives than tar.gz ?16:43
fk_lx;-)16:43
kulvephaeron: do you know what then actually reads/parses those desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart/?16:44
phaeronnothing anymore16:45
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phaeronuxlaunch is obsolete16:45
phaeronsystemd user session reads files in /usr/lib/systemd/user/16:45
kulvethat may explain why I didn't see any difference when editing those files ;)16:46
phaeron:)16:47
nylwhats working on on latest mer o.O?16:53
nylfor n90016:53
kulvethere's a service file for maliit-server but looks like it's launched via something else. Maybe dbus autoactivation?17:05
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kulvemaliit-keyboard-viewer shows the keyboard but if I try to run the maliit-server, it seems to crash easily17:07
kulvewith gdb the whole screen goes to black but no crash17:08
kulveI need to enable mer on Nexus 7 and hopefully there will be some quick progress on these :)17:11
fk_lxthat black screen was also present in x86 VM images of Nemo mobile when the keyboard appeared on screen17:12
fk_lxthere was some workaround to make it visible17:12
phaeronkulve: yes dbus auto-activation , otherwise it doesn't work17:14
phaeronkulve: make sure correct env is exported in your ssh session17:15
phaerondbus address etc ..17:15
kulvefk_lx: do you happen to remember which workaround?17:18
fk_lxkulve: some key combination, ctrl + some function key ?17:19
kulvewell, that wouldn't probably help my on my tegra..17:19
kulves,my,me,17:20
fk_lxkulve: if you only had USB/bluetooth keyboard ...17:21
fk_lx;-)17:21
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fk_lxkulve: anyway, https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34717:24
MerbotNemo bug 347 in x86-generic "Screen is black when VKB is open in VirtualBox" [Critical,New]17:24
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Stskeepskulve: oh, that's a good point: environment variables in the systemd user session17:42
Stskeepsfor maliit especially17:43
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Stskeepsdid the command line flags special suggested help anything?17:46
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kulveStskeeps: I tried different combo of those but I can't even get the kbd visible (with everything else black) anymore. But based on the segfault from maliit-server I guess it tries to show the vkb when I e.g. try to click on the Notes17:54
kulveStskeeps: what environment variables?17:54
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Venemo_N9hey18:05
Stskeepsevening Venemo_N918:05
Stskeepskulve: well, runtime system and soo n for qt18:05
Venemo_N9evening Stskeeps :) any success with your experiment?18:06
Stskeepswhich one of them ;)18:06
Stskeepsi kinda run many at a time, hence me asking18:06
Venemo_N9the static linking thing18:06
Stskeepsah, well the impact is still a bit uncertain18:07
Stskeepsof course it's faster for launcher18:07
Stskeepslaunching18:07
dm8tbranyone in BCN this week?18:07
Stskeepsbut if there's impact on memory and any difference to dlopen like stuff..18:07
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kulveStskeeps: I set QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM and QT_DEFAULT_RUNTIME_SYSTEM in under /etc/profile.d/. I guess they should be inherited from there to everywhere?18:09
Stskeepsyeah, but the user session doesn't use /etc/profile.d18:09
Stskeeps(i know that's a bit odd but running bash during startup really isn't the nicest..)18:09
Stskeepsso there's a /etc/sysconfig18:09
Stskeepsthing instead18:09
kulvewhich one should be used or should I set both?18:10
hydehi, in order to build A Mer image for Raspberry Pi with these instructions: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Community_Workspace/RaspberryPi#Install_Mer_SDK18:10
hydedo I need an account on the community OBS server?18:10
timophno18:10
Stskeepskulve: etc/sysconfig18:11
timophunless you plan to build packages18:11
Stskeepshyde: just mer platform sdk :)18:11
timophbut for image creation, no18:11
hydeok, I think I'll just start with that18:11
Stskeepsyou can do packages in sdk, too18:12
kulvenemo-mobile-ui set's QT_DEFAULT_RUNTIME_SYSTEM=meego and qt-graphicssystem-opengl.sh sets QT_DEFAULT_RUNTIME_SYSTEM=opengl18:14
Stskeepsshould probably switch that18:14
Stskeepsps aux | grep uxlaunch says nothing, right18:14
kulvewhen I created the image, I saw a note about nemo-mobile-session providing uxlaunc18:16
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Stskeepsok18:17
Stskeepsso assume nemo-mobile-ui is the reference18:17
hydeoh, btw, that curl -k -O  https://github.com/snowcap-electronics/kickstarts/raw/master/rpi/mer-rpi.ks18:17
hydementioned in the wiki, it's stale link18:17
hydegives redirect page18:17
Stskeepshmm, shows the right thing for me18:18
Stskeepscurl might need to follow redirects?18:18
kulveafter a redirection18:18
Stskeepshttps://raw.github.com/snowcap-electronics/kickstarts/master/rpi/mer-rpi.ks18:19
kulvehyde: does it work now?18:19
kulve(I just edited the page)18:19
hydeseems to be the same link I dug out from the redirect page (saved by curl instead of the intended file)18:20
kulveyes, that's what I did. But now that command should give you the right .ks file?18:21
kulvehmm.. it doesn't18:22
kulvenow it does18:23
hydehmph, the Mer SDK does not seem to like to be on different partition... Maybe I should read the entire wiki page about SDK installation instead of just the tl;dr part ;)18:24
kulveStskeeps: I added the env variables and now the status bar is back18:24
Stskeepskulve: ok, that's a start18:25
hydemic create fails with "Error <creator>: Command 'extlinux' is not available."18:25
Stskeepssudo zypper in syslinux-extlinux18:25
hydeah, yeah, that had to be done inside chroot... I reinstalled the SDK, must have lost it then18:26
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kulveStskeeps: I tried all combinations of -remote-theme, -use-self-composition and -manual-redirection but I don't get the vkb visible. Just black bar at the bottom of the Notes or a totally black screen18:33
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Stskeepsokay, that's a bit weird18:34
hydeok, got an image... So when I get that to an SD and boot, it's configured to get IP by DHCP, and start sshd?18:36
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Stskeepselse log in from usb keyboard if it doesn't :P18:37
Stskeepsshould normally start sshd18:37
hydeI thought it starts qmlviewer or something, so thought no console log-in possible. Oh well, I'll see when I get that far18:38
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Stskeepslbt: wrapping up the i486 stuff19:10
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lbtStskeeps: good19:22
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* Stskeeps curses loudly19:36
lbt?19:36
Stskeepsmissing cross-i486-sysroot, i'll sort it out..19:37
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lbtI thought I pushed that?19:40
Stskeepsnop, that was sb2 i think19:40
lbtI have it here19:40
Stskeepseither way, i spotted an error19:40
Stskeepsin my own stuff19:40
lbtI have an updated cross-template-sysroot here for mer-crosshelpers/19:41
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lbtjust say if you want me to push it19:42
Stskeepsnah, i'm good thanks :)19:42
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hyderelated to 'dd of=/dev/sdX if=mer-rpi-mmcblk0p.raw bs=4M' command at wiki, which distros mount card readers as /dev/sdX? Or does it depend on device type?19:47
hydebecause mine is /dev/mmcblk019:47
Stskeepsdepends on adaptor type19:49
Stskeepsmmcblk is usually when it sees it as an actual mmc19:49
Stskeeps slot19:49
hydeIt's alive! Also, it seems to have different password/username than raspbian...19:54
Stskeepsit's not debian based19:54
Stskeeps:P19:54
Stskeepssee the .ks and use that login/pass19:54
Stskeepsprobably root/rootme or mer/rootme19:54
hydewell, pi/raspberry of raspbian is not particularily debian-flavoured choice19:54
Stskeepsyeah, true19:55
Stskeepsi remember when it was eben :P19:55
hydeyeah, those were the defaults in .ks19:55
hydehmm, the wiki page could use link to something like http://elinux.org/RPi_Resize_Flash_Partitions, maybe19:58
Stskeepsprobably, though it's not really hard to adjust partition sizes for the image19:59
Stskeepsin .ks19:59
hydewell, if file system does not support sparse files, and SD card is big, the image gets a bit big... :)20:01
Stskeepstrue20:01
hyde(I have no idea if eg. ext4 supports them, and even if it does, will the .raw file take advantage of it)20:01
Stskeepsthink ext4 does sparse :P20:09
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Stskeepslbt: https://build.ci.merproject.org/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=cross-mipsel-binutils&project=Core%3Amipsel&repository=Core_mipsel20:34
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Stskeepslbt: fix that and we're in goal, i believe20:35
lbtbut but but20:35
Stskeepsyes, %ifarch doesn't say anything about the cross target20:36
Stskeeps:P20:36
Stskeepsie, you need some way to check target-doesn-t-have-gold20:36
lbt:/20:36
Stskeepsshould be trivial20:38
lbtif "%{name}" == "cross-mipsel-binutils"    ? (in addition to if narch20:40
Stskeepsi guess, or just do a %define later20:40
Stskeeps"is_mips"20:41
Stskeepsor something20:41
Stskeepsearlier, that is20:41
lbtyeah - I was thinking that20:41
kulvenemo-mobile-ui sets QT_DEFAULT_RUNTIME_SYSTEM=meego in /etc/sysconfig/. How should I override that? I tried to set it in a different file (alphabetically before and after) but it didn't seem to have an effect..20:43
Venemo_N9what's up with jolla nowadays?20:44
kulveI guess they'll tell more in 3 weeks?20:45
StskeepsVenemo_N9: busy as hell :)20:45
Venemo_N9what's in 3 weeks?20:45
StskeepsVenemo_N9: slush's in three weeks20:45
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, why busy?20:45
Stskeepskulve: edit it / sed it in the .ks20:45
StskeepsVenemo_N9: http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/04/jolla-confirms-it-will-unveil-sailfish-meego-based-os-next-month/20:46
Venemo_N9ah, that.20:46
Stskeepsso as you can guess, a tad busy20:46
Venemo_N9why don't you hire some more guys, if it feels too busy?20:47
special9 women making a baby in a month, etc :)20:47
Stskeepsi think no matter how many we hire, it'll feel a bit busy20:47
Stskeeps:P20:47
Stskeepsalso, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month20:48
Stskeeps:P20:48
Venemo_N9yeah20:49
Bostikthat book should be every engineer's basic reading20:49
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Venemo_N9well anyway, it'd be interesting to work for Jolla, given the chance20:49
hydeVenemo_N9: well, get a few dozen quality commits to mer, and you probably have a good chance ;) (not that I am in any way associated with Jolla, just speculating)20:50
Stskeepsor in nemo..20:51
Venemo_N9I already have that.20:51
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Venemo_N9in nemo, rather than mer, though20:52
Stskeepsthere's really nothing than development boards where you arent' exactly sure if it will blow up in your face when you try to charge a battery inside it..20:52
hydewell, there are cheap chinese electronic devices, with them you don't know if they will blow up in your face, either ;)20:53
Venemo_N9I'm kind of a UI guy20:53
specialVenemo_N9: maybe you should send a CV20:53
hyde(we had an office building emptied once by spontaneously combusting battery of a chinese 3G-Wifi box)20:54
Venemo_N9anyway, I asked someone whether I have any chance, and was told that I don't.20:54
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Venemo_N9I don't want to damage their public image, so I won't say in what manner he told me that.20:55
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CosmoHilldid he snarl and throw a cup of coffee at you?20:57
Venemo_N9lol20:57
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Venemohi22:02
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CosmoHillhi22:06
CosmoHillupdated my cv :)22:06
Venemo:)22:08
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Venemobye guys :)23:54
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