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| yunta_ | why does it need it? | 00:06 |
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| Stskeeps | good morning | 07:06 |
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| Stskeeps | 2/whois popey | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | well that didn't work | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | popey: welcome to #mer :) | 07:40 |
| popey | :) | 07:40 |
| popey | hello | 07:41 |
| Stskeeps | so what brings you here? | 07:41 |
| popey | I've done that before :) | 07:41 |
| Stskeeps | i try to help make a more welcoming atmosphere here by making sure every newcomer feels welcome :) and well, sometimes the procedure slips up ;) | 07:42 |
| popey | Nice idea | 07:43 |
| popey | Not many irc channels do that. | 07:43 |
| popey | I just tend to lurk in loads of channels to learn about projects.. | 07:43 |
| * dm8tbr throws Stskeeps a botsnack | 07:43 | |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. i've been dealing with communities that end up being toxic and unwelcome and it just ends up with potential contributors not even being able to, no matter how passionate they are about the project.. | 07:44 |
| situ | Morning all | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | popey: but sure, if you have any questions on Mer, feel free to ask at any time :) | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | morn situ | 07:46 |
| popey | thanks | 07:46 |
| situ | lbt: ping | 07:46 |
| Stskeeps | popey: ah, right - you've been here before, with joggler :) | 07:52 |
| popey | blimey, your log searching is throughout :) | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | i recognised your nickname from somewhere, so :P | 07:53 |
| popey | :) | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | i should really put mer on my joggler.. | 07:53 |
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| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: you could at least make it a wall-clock like I did... | 07:57 |
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| Stskeeps | possibly, yeah | 07:58 |
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| Stskeeps | or something like a chumby | 08:00 |
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| Stskeeps | hello dev___ | 09:21 |
| dev___ | hi Stskeeps | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | dev___: welcome to #mer :) so what brings you here? | 09:22 |
| dev___ | I've been following Meego project since long... until it was need | 09:22 |
| dev___ | dead* | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: well we certainly take the spirit of it continued here | 09:22 |
| dev___ | and wanted to contribute to Mer/Maemo since sometime | 09:22 |
| dev___ | I know :) I've been a long time lurker of talk.maemo.org | 09:23 |
| dev___ | know you from there | 09:23 |
| Stskeeps | so what would you like to contribute in? | 09:23 |
| dev___ | anything related to code | 09:23 |
| dev___ | I have habit of writing docs as i code | 09:23 |
| Stskeeps | sure, start out with wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK | 09:23 |
| dev___ | did that | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps try out Nemo | 09:24 |
| dev___ | tried Meego default UX which i believe is Nemo | 09:24 |
| dev___ | my N900 is dead now-a-days | 09:24 |
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| Stskeeps | nah, nemo's much saner | 09:24 |
| dev___ | oh well... i need a vm for that | 09:24 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, there's one | 09:24 |
| dev___ | yesterday i was seeing if qemu or virtualbox would be the way to go | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | virtualbox i use myself | 09:25 |
| dev___ | nemo's instructions have virtualbox while platform sdk wants qemu | 09:25 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | there's a small compositor issue in current one | 09:25 |
| dev___ | i do not have enough space to setup two VMs | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | well, virtualbox then :P | 09:26 |
| dev___ | with qemu or virtualbox? | 09:26 |
| dev___ | but i feel like working with platform sdk | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | platform sdk doesn't actually use qemu to be used :) | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | just a standard linux install | 09:26 |
| dev___ | i also wanted to know, if i make changes in platform sdk, how do i see it reflected in nemo | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | you can deploy it, think of the vm as another device | 09:27 |
| dev___ | yup | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | so scp, ssh, etc | 09:27 |
| dev___ | i use VMs daily at work | 09:27 |
| dev___ | oh and btw, officially i work in games and currently am a server engineer | 09:28 |
| dev___ | but wanted to get back to c++ and roots of system programming | 09:28 |
| dev___ | + Meego and Maemo have caught my fancy since a few years | 09:28 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | certainly plenty of challenges in mer | 09:29 |
| dev___ | yup | 09:29 |
| dev___ | just saw the bug list | 09:29 |
| dev___ | couldn't find anything related to code | 09:29 |
| dev___ | there is lot of CI stuff | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, because most development goes on in upstream projects | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | we don't want to fork systemd on our own, as an example | 09:30 |
| dev___ | ok | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | we package the goodies nicely and develop exciting things on top of mer | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | but there's a lot about QA, too | 09:30 |
| dev___ | anyway, i guess i should ask more pertinent questions | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | dev___: feel free to ask any questions at any time :) | 09:31 |
| dev___ | 1. what comes in platform sdk? | 09:32 |
| Stskeeps | platform sdk is practically a mini mer chroot that contains image creators, obs tools, typical tools that a developer needs on a day to day basis | 09:32 |
| dev___ | ok | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | 95% of all the challenges in meego/support questions were due to people not being able to have working tools from day zero on their various distros | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | so we made platform sdk to solve that | 09:33 |
| dev___ | how mature does it feel and how easy is it for newbies to use it? | 09:33 |
| dev___ | i am asking this because if it needs work, i may give it a shot | 09:34 |
| Stskeeps | quite easy to get into but we are happy to have someone help to fix minor issues with it | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | as we're a bit short of hands and lbt, who's doing sdk, has other tasks too | 09:35 |
| dev___ | but i would need docs to get started | 09:35 |
| dev___ | where is the max shortage? | 09:35 |
| dev___ | i mean which area/component? | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | i think the stuff surrounding cross compilation and sb2 could need some tender loving care | 09:35 |
| dev___ | oh man!!! | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | it works properly but isn't always documented | 09:36 |
| dev___ | i just removed fremantle cross compilation tool | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | scratchbox2 | 09:36 |
| dev___ | tolls* | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | not 1 | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | big difference :) | 09:36 |
| dev___ | freed up a few gigs for this experiment | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 09:36 |
| dev___ | does sb2 also install complete environments? | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | no, you select yourself what you'd like to use as target | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | can be a image you built yourself, etc | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | dev___: i think the best way is simply to dive into it, make notes on what strikes you as undocumented, not working, etc, and ask as many questions as you want | 09:37 |
| Stskeeps | there's 'enough' documentation to do that already | 09:38 |
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| dev___ | good... where is it and what type of loving does it need? | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#Compiling_with_the_SDK | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | is relevant as well | 09:38 |
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| dev___ | please give me a minute to skim through it | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | no problem, take your time | 09:40 |
| dev___ | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2 | 09:43 |
| dev___ | this looks fairly complete | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but a lot of manual steps | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | so it could definately need some abstraction | 09:45 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway, get sdk, make an image, try out the tools, try to cross compile | 09:45 |
| Stskeeps | and that gives a decent feel to where we're at | 09:45 |
| dev___ | cool | 09:45 |
| dev___ | give me a few more minutes | 09:45 |
| dev___ | it is really late here and my concentration seems to be waning | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | don't worry, perhaps get some sleep instead :) | 09:46 |
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| dev___ | its fine... sunday tomorrow :) | 09:49 |
| dev___ | i mean today | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | already sunday here :P | 09:49 |
| dev___ | ok... so it seems you are aiming for an IDE functionality | 09:49 |
| dev___ | same here :) | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | not entirely - we have qt creator for IDE at a higher level | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | platform sdk's supposed to work as a good way to cross compile platform level stuff | 09:50 |
| dev___ | is that integrated with sb2? | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | there's some guides how to do that, yes | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/User:Tswindell/Qt_Creator_And_Mer_Integration | 09:50 |
| dev___ | you know... this is a very important page and should appear on the main wiki itself | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes, though it's a thing under research | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | help more than welcome to help shape things a bit | 09:52 |
| dev___ | sorry if it may feel brash... but it sometimes annoys me that great engineering is marred by bad marketing | 09:52 |
| dev___ | i guess i will do that | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, that's not brash :) | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | though to do that you also need understanding to write documentation, hence me suggesting diving into it | 09:52 |
| dev___ | yup | 09:53 |
| dev___ | i think i need to start tinkering with stuff, get a hang of everything (well that is not possible) and then get in shape to write docs etc... | 09:53 |
| dev___ | maybe anything that eases a new person's on-boarding | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | make notes, as i believe that once you've spent too long time in a project, you gain to go blind to obvious / glaring problems / get used to them | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | and hence don't see them as a priority.. but newcomers do | 09:55 |
| dev___ | totally :) | 09:55 |
| dev___ | that's why making docs while coding :) | 09:55 |
| dev___ | i'll say coding or even setting up the system | 09:55 |
| dev___ | so lets define a task then, keeping in mind that i have not even coded a c program in linux before this | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | well, try to go for hello world, i guess | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | on an arm target | 09:56 |
| dev___ | sure | 09:58 |
| dev___ | which arm arch does N9 run? | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | armv7hl | 09:58 |
| dev___ | ok | 09:58 |
| dev___ | so mer has QT libs | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb gives a pretty good understanding of mer contents | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | mer doesn't push a common apps story though | 10:00 |
| dev___ | that means the hello world program can be made in QT or C | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | for example, yes | 10:00 |
| dev___ | ok... then i guess the task would be to document the process to install and launch a hello world app in mer project on armv7hl target | 10:01 |
| dev___ | what is mer's story to see a app on a vm? | 10:02 |
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| Stskeeps | ideally make a rpm and deploy | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | with scp/ssh | 10:02 |
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| dev___ | i mean create and see an app... because that is what i think is most important to incoming devs | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | sure, but also working with the platform cponents | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | +om | 10:03 |
| dev___ | of course | 10:03 |
| dev___ | so i can see two branches - one to make the platform and one to use it to make commercial apps | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | the idea is also with platform sdk to make it such that a vendor can take it and make a 'their platform' sdk | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | ie, with ui libs, etc | 10:04 |
| dev___ | is this platform sdk that you talk of same as platform sdk definition you gave earlier | 10:04 |
| dev___ | "platform sdk is practically a mini mer chroot that contains image creators, obs tools, typical tools that a developer needs on a day to day basis" | 10:05 |
| dev___ | or is this basically a system of basically a headless mer | 10:05 |
| dev___ | by headless i mean without GUI... maybe i should say with default GUI | 10:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | it's headless-ish mer, like, suited for chroot usage | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | so it doesn't have x server, etc | 10:10 |
| dev___ | ok | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | we also use it as a starting point for qa tools | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | like test runners, etc | 10:12 |
| dev___ | so what do i have to do to take platform sdk and convert it to something that i can install on a vm or device with nemo UI? | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | well, usually you don't, you just install nemo and install the right repos + tools | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | if you want to develop on device | 10:12 |
| dev___ | i am just trying t get the whole process clear in my head - from a core system to something that end users can use | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | mer is core, platform sdk is core + tools, nemo is core+ui, plus a hardware adaptation (pc, n900, n9, etc) | 10:13 |
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| dev___ | ok | 10:13 |
| dev___ | interesting | 10:14 |
| dev___ | so the UI project is called nemo, cordia, plasma active | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | yes for example | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | we seperate because on core level it's the least amount of arguments | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | everybody ends up with a similar stack for non-android | 10:14 |
| dev___ | :) | 10:15 |
| dev___ | you know when i had first heard of mer | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | we seperate hw adaptations out to make sure that core releases don't hold up device schedules | 10:15 |
| dev___ | i actually wanted to make a new ux | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | we seperate ui because not everybody will agree on what side of the dialog 'cancel' goes on | 10:15 |
| dev___ | hahahaha | 10:15 |
| dev___ | of course | 10:15 |
| dev___ | happens in games all the time | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | or GTK vs qt.. | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | etc | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | so, we can all work together on a common core ;) | 10:16 |
| dev___ | i think this chat can be placed on some page :P | 10:16 |
| dev___ | in wiki... | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:16 |
| dev___ | lot of basics in one place | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | https://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf is some thoughts as well | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | we collect logs at merproject.org/logs/ | 10:17 |
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| dev___ | interesting | 10:20 |
| dev___ | that IRC log may prove really useful | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | also, you can still, with ease, make your own ui - check out lipstick, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zg0NvSaXmY | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | framework to do qml uis | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | / homescreens with ease | 10:21 |
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| dev___ | you know what! I had already had a word with my friends about making a UI | 10:21 |
| dev___ | that's why Mer was useful... | 10:22 |
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| dev___ | but i also realize it is not possible to accomplish with just one person's efforts | 10:24 |
| dev___ | anyway, i think i have had enough basics for the moment... i guess i will leave now and start with mer the moment i get a chunk of free time | 10:25 |
| dev___ | thank you Carsten for sharing your valuable time, i deeply appreciate it | 10:25 |
| dev___ | good night/day :) | 10:26 |
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| mikhas | special, lets try to get self-compositing fixed for QML, I'd say (re: bug 456) | 11:06 |
| Merbot | Mer bug 456 in libXpm "update libXpm to 3.5.10" [Task,Resolved: fixed] https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456 | 11:06 |
| mikhas | no, wrong bug | 11:06 |
| dm8tbr | maybe you meant nemo bug 456 | 11:07 |
| Merbot | Nemo bug 456 in Maliit "Maliit needs an upgrade (with significant changes)" [Normal,Assigned] https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456 | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | ooh, useful | 11:08 |
| * dm8tbr is still waiting for a patch that enables 'official' bug IDs | 11:08 | |
| mikhas | thanks dm8tbr | 11:11 |
| mikhas | does NEMO#456 work? | 11:11 |
| dm8tbr | 11:08:52 * dm8tbr is still waiting for a patch that enables 'official' bug IDs | 11:12 |
| mikhas | right | 11:12 |
| mikhas | =p | 11:12 |
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| lbt | afternoon all | 11:34 |
| lbt | situ: quick pong | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, was next imported? | 11:38 |
| lbt | It should have been a normal pre-release | 11:39 |
| lbt | I wasn't aware of any issues - just checking now | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:40 |
| lbt | looks like it wasn't | 11:41 |
| lbt | the xml has the old values | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:41 |
| lbt | http://releases.merproject.org/releases/next-release is correct though | 11:42 |
| lbt | updating now | 11:43 |
| lbt | spent most of yesterday either catching up around house or asleep :) | 11:43 |
| lbt | ok .. taking Denise out this afternoon ... back later | 11:48 |
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| Stskeeps | ta | 11:48 |
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| situ | lbt: Any hints how to solve this https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113 ? | 11:50 |
| Merbot | Mer bug 113 in OBS "Changelog entry creation plugin for osc" [Task,New] | 11:50 |
| lbt | situ: yes - write an .osc-plugin/ plugin or modify the code for osc vc to use a template provided in .oscrc | 11:56 |
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| timoph | kyyberi: I've nothing against having talks but 4/5 of the time should be reserved for doing things | 13:16 |
| timoph | we can start with talks (1-1.5h) and have rest of the time reserved for free hacking | 13:17 |
| timoph | also since we have a topic for the hackday, we should mention that if someone wants to work on something else that is perfectly fine | 13:17 |
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| timoph | I don't want to restrict what people can work on | 13:19 |
| timoph | if someone wants to come in and write .net, java or whatever that is 100% fine | 13:19 |
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| * timoph replied to the wrong channel :/ | 13:24 | |
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| cybette | timoph: I will add tthe part about free hacking to eventbrite info | 13:30 |
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| kyyberi | timoph *nod* | 14:56 |
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| Superpelican | Searching for "python3" and "python 3" in Meego Community Open Build Service doesn't give any results except for builds for Maemo and Meego Harmattan | 15:04 |
| Superpelican | So looks like Python 3 really isn't build for real Meego/Mer (rpm-based) yet | 15:05 |
| Superpelican | Is there a log that logs all IRC activity, not only the meetings? | 15:07 |
| Superpelican | I want to dig up something ali1234 said about building python 3 yesterday | 15:08 |
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| Kelteseth_ | heyho ;) | 15:38 |
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| rcg | where can i find the sources for qt (more precisely libQtDeclarative) as used in the current mer builds? | 15:53 |
| rcg | ideally with *.spec and *.yaml files | 15:53 |
| rcg | is it somewhere in the OBS? | 15:53 |
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| special | mikhas: self-compositing should definitely be fixed, thanks for putting that upstream. What I'm unsure of is which solution nemo should use | 16:00 |
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| Stskeeps | gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb , rcg | 16:07 |
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| rcg | Stskeeps, thanks :) | 16:11 |
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| Jake9xx | Stskeeps: some comments on Mer SDK on Ubuntu 12.04 ; 'modprobe' is not on the std. $PATH (i.e. /sbin is not in $PATH) | 21:10 |
| Jake9xx | Stskeeps: but I guess this is more on the SDK than ubuntu itself? | 21:11 |
| lbt | Jake9xx: check the wiki | 21:12 |
| Jake9xx | lbt: ah, you're right :) | 21:12 |
| lbt | :) | 21:12 |
| lbt | nb, the ubuntu part should not matter at all | 21:13 |
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| Jake9xx | lbt: but for Ubuntu 12.04 there's one thing. Precise does not have python-2.6 anymore, it requires python-2.7-dev | 21:13 |
| lbt | SDK has a couple of minor requirements: bash and a kernel :) | 21:14 |
| lbt | all other things are internal to the SDK | 21:14 |
| lbt | so osc and all other Mer tools should run inside the SDK | 21:15 |
| lbt | make sense? | 21:15 |
| Jake9xx | lbt: the page I was referring to is https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation | 21:17 |
| lbt | ah - sorry, that probably needs a review | 21:17 |
| Jake9xx | lbt: :) | 21:17 |
| lbt | is https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#Building_an_image enough to get you going? | 21:17 |
| Jake9xx | lbt: yup, but there could be 'latest' reference automatically for some lazy ppl | 21:18 |
| Jake9xx | lbt: on 'curl -k -o mer-sdk-x86-chroot-latest.ks <INSERT URL OF LATEST KICKSTART HERE>' but like said, for lazy people | 21:18 |
| lbt | I'll strip the non-Mer stuff from that page | 21:18 |
| lbt | Jake9xx: yep - that'd be good. Are you volunteering to keep it up to date? | 21:19 |
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| Jake9xx | lbt: with access to the wiki + notification when stuff at https://img.merproject.org/images/sdk/ updates, yes | 21:19 |
| lbt | access uses your bugzilla account - so that's fine | 21:20 |
| lbt | I announce on the mailing list - and it would be nice to have it done | 21:20 |
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| lbt | ty :) | 21:21 |
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