Monday, 2012-10-01

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deztructormorning is coming02:24
ka6sox-awaywhat? where?02:24
Skryhere02:25
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iekkumorning03:34
deztructorka6sox-away: in hki @ 5 :)03:42
ka6sox-awayah, okay03:44
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timophmorning04:02
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Superpelicanhttp://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.3.html04:49
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SuperpelicanPython 3.3 released04:49
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SuperpelicanPython now always supports the full range of Unicode codepoints, including non-BMP ones (i.e. from U+0000 to U+10FFFF). The distinction between narrow and wide builds no longer exists04:54
SuperpelicanCited from Python 3.3 what's new page04:54
SuperpelicanMaybe I did a "narrow" build04:57
SuperpelicanMaybe that's the cause of the ascii issue04:57
* timoph is still living in python 2.x land04:57
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Sage_Stskeeps, lbt: the .0.2 release imported to cobs? Asking as couldn't see release note in ml.05:20
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StskeepsSage_: let's wait for lbt to wake up05:42
Jake9xxmorning05:48
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Stskeepsmorn Sage_06:15
Stskeepser, morn Sfiet_Konstantin06:16
Sfiet_Konstantinmorn Stskeeps06:16
Sfiet_Konstantinhehe06:16
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, I'm in course so :D06:16
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kontiomardy, I merged gitorious libsignoncrypto-qt master/harmattan to code.google.com master/harmattan, since Alex Akimov had some 10 more commits, and we used last 1.3 version... I also changed the tests.xml file and made a new release 1.3.1, check if OK for you, thx08:01
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mardykontio: it's hard to understand from the commit messages what were the issues fixed by Alex, but I suppose it's all OK :-)08:05
kontiomardy, yeah... I guess it was the last time a sync with gitourious was needed :-)08:06
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Stskeepslbt: could you fill in what exact status at this time status about mer-next import is?08:41
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lbtyep - it ran yesterday and I'll review the logs08:45
Stskeepsok08:46
lbthmmm https://gist.github.com/381037508:46
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lbtjust prior to updatestorm08:46
Stskeepsprobably need a new pull then08:47
Stskeepsupdatesstorm is a nullop08:47
Stskeepsideally it should grab it from packages-git/ instead08:47
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lbtyes. I know the release process is due a rewrite but "it works" (usually) and the only people that really are impacted by the current clunkiness is me and maybe you08:49
Stskeepsok08:49
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lbtalso - it's a complete bitch to develop and test08:49
lbtdue to the need to do tags and work on a live system08:50
Stskeeps:nod:08:50
lbtalso the time it takes to run...08:50
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Stskeepsno disagreements08:53
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lbtI even checked the cobs was busy and freed up a dead perl job on powerworker... grr.... anyhow rerunning updatestorm now08:56
lbtso ... Mer on virtualbox today08:56
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VDVsxStskeeps: did you pushed new qmf even with the mobility issue ? has anyone already used it ? :)09:07
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StskeepsVDVsx: yes, yes - though w00t fixed qt mobility side09:09
w00t(technically I've only used it on my mac, but still)09:10
VDVsxah ok, havent checked09:10
w00tVDVsx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJJNmEQiBcg09:10
VDVsxwas just some api stuff shuld be fine09:10
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w00tcurrent git looks a lot less crap, before you say anything ;)09:10
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VDVsxw00t: ahaha, need to try it, currently still setting up a new machine09:11
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VDVsxw00t: it this based in meego(intel code) isn't ?09:12
w00tyes09:12
w00tthere's plenty of improvements that can be made, i'm sure, but at least it's a start point09:13
VDVsxyeah, some starting point is good :)09:13
w00thttps://github.com/nemomobile/qmlmail09:13
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phakow00t: already looks less broken than fenix ;)09:14
w00ti think the biggest missing item (from my POV) is threading09:15
VDVsxw00t: you should do a tutorial about developing nemo apps on mac, would be popular for sure, even if not very different from linux :)09:15
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w00tVDVsx: www.johanpaul.com/blog/2012/09/how-to-set-up-a-desktop-development-target-to-contribute-to-nemo-apps/ more or less covers it09:15
w00tit doesn't work for everything, but well :)09:16
* w00t tries to keep things working on desktop, especially in early stages09:16
w00tmuch faster iteration of development09:17
VDVsxoh, yeah, that looks quite generic :)09:17
* VDVsx is still catching up :)09:17
VDVsxw00t: agreed, sadly my mac is not powerful enough, so some bulky hp for the rescue :)09:18
w00tSage_: were you working on an X upgrade or do I misremember?09:23
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iekkumer bug triage starting in 3 minutes10:57
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lbtiekku: are you running the triage?11:01
lbt*g* missed your msg in the other room11:02
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iekkulbt, yes :D11:06
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kontiomardy, it seems it's more complicated than expected :-) seems just harmattan branch contains encryptor-glib.[cpp|h], which is needed by tests.cpp, so I guess nobody ever tried to build from master (since that does not build due to this 2 files missing) - so probably just harmattan branch is usable... it's somehow not consequent to have the glib part just in harmattan but tests are in master and harmattan but just build in harmattan :-) seems we used the11:15
kontiostuff from Harmattan branch until now...11:15
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mardykontio: most likely yes. Though it's strange, because I think it was working (or at least building :-)) in MeeGo11:16
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kontioprobably then the test.cpp didn't not have the glib tests? :-)11:17
mardykontio: yes, or maybe it was never run :-)11:18
kontioI'm kind of tempted to create a branch branched from master incl these 2 files... then we can think about it to have it later on in master too?11:20
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mardykontio: I seem to remember now... I didn't like the implementation and suggested another one; however Alex thought that implementing my suggestion would take too much time, so we agreed to go with his implementation, but keep it just in the harmattan branch11:23
mardykontio: and then make a better implementation in master11:23
mardykontio: so, if the harmattan branch works for you, feel free to put those changes into master as well -- I don't need this library anymore, so do as you wish11:24
mardykontio: btw, are you sure that you need this library? does Mer have a security framework like Aegis or Smack?11:25
kontiomardy, I put it for the moment into a separate branch... then we can see/think what we want... I'm also not sure how much we need this lib... all started with having the tests.xml fixed, since we run the tests :-)11:26
mardykontio: well, I can tell you that if you use signond and libsignon-glib from code.google.com master branches, then this library is not used at all :-)11:27
kontioAard, do we really need libsignoncrypto-qt in mer/nemo at all? seems that lib is not much used :-) see ^11:27
kontiophaeron, or do you know? see mardy's comment above... ^11:28
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phaeronkontio: Aard would know11:29
kontiook lets wait for him...11:31
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kontiosee also discussion with mardy at 11:15 http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23mer/%23mer.2012-10-01.log.html12:14
kontioups wrong channel :-)12:15
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dm8tbrkontio: btw, the time-stamps are anchors and you can link to them :)12:54
rozhkovphaeron: could you please check why i get error 500 when12:55
rozhkovGetting buildinfo from server and store to /home/rozhkov/work/pr/nemo/obs/home:rojkov:branches:Mer:MDS:Core:armv7hl/qt-mobility/.osc/_buildinfo-Mer_Core_arm7hl-armv8el.xml12:55
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kontiodm8tbr, ah good to know :-)12:59
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Jake9xxlbt: Stskeeps added some stuff to https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/USBNetworking about the date setting13:09
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phaeronrozhkov: as we found out , missing v13:23
phaeron:)13:23
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Jake9xxis there a release note of Mer SDK 6.1.0 somewhere that would list all the components and their versions?13:34
Jake9xxis the preferred solution interrogate them from the installed chroot ?13:34
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lbtI've not done a full list13:37
lbtI did a delta last time though13:37
lbtwhy?13:37
Jake9xxlbt: the practical use-case here would be QMF in Mer 6.1.0 is built on sha1 of xxxx ; and what is the xxxx?13:38
lbtwhat sha1 ?13:39
lbtgit sha1?13:39
Jake9xxlbt: yup13:40
lbtso you want the sha1 of the git/source of each of the packages in the SDK?13:40
Jake9xxlbt: I can do it with zypper si of course13:41
lbtI'm kinda working towards that goal13:41
Jake9xxlbt: ok, if I can get sources with si and build on sb2 locally it should be enough13:41
Jake9xxlbt: ..for time being :)13:41
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Stskeepsgit clone it from mer git?13:42
lbtOK ... so again looking for the why :)13:42
lbtif you want to contribute to a pkg that's not the approach13:42
lbtas Stskeeps says, we have/want git repos of the source of all the pkgs13:42
Jake9xxStskeeps: the version in gitweb is not same as in Mer 6.1.013:43
StskeepsJake9xx: correct, it's a later one13:43
StskeepsJake9xx: as it's the one coming in next mer release13:44
lbtalso QMF is mer-core, not mer-sdk13:44
Jake9xxStskeeps: and there is no point yet to start developing on that yet as it might not be compatible fully13:44
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Jake9xxStskeeps: lbt what I want is environment where I can build the same version of QMF that is in Mer SDK 6.1.0 because I don't want to spend time on fixing some irrelevant compatibility issues13:45
StskeepsJake9xx: check mer/project-core , find tag / version of mer core, packages.xml13:45
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Stskeepsand check out qmf sha of that13:45
Jake9xxStskeeps: lbt plus I need (usually, based on old memories) to insert extra traces to QMF to see when my code runs13:45
lbtthere is a misunderstanding here Jake9xx mer SDK is a collection of Mer:Tools + a subset of Mer Core13:45
Stskeepsas indicated in packages.xml13:45
Jake9xxlbt: ok, Mer release 6.1.013:46
lbtyep - there is no Mer 6.1.0 ... it's http://releases.merproject.org/releases/13:46
* Jake9xx is sorry for the conventions, somewhere else 'SDK' meant the full package..13:46
lbt*nod*13:46
lbtwe could tie them together but the code in the SDK is not important13:47
lbt(within limits)13:48
StskeepsJake9xx, http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/qmf.git;a=tree;h=96e03700d070c20ff8794527f26e1a0b3683c9bd;hb=21b1e9198e39c71ff98ce965fc2e9a55111b95bd13:48
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StskeepsJake9xx: that's the right commit for latest qmf that was released in a full mer release13:49
Jake9xxStskeeps: sweet, ty!13:50
lbtthat's a mer-specific sha1 - not related to upstream git13:50
Jake9xxlbt: yup, I'm good with that. Now I can continue, tnx mates.13:50
Stskeepsyep13:50
lbtok - good13:50
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lbtw00t: is your pkgconfig(QtMobility) issue new in -next ?13:59
w00tlbt: mmm I don't know for sure13:59
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w00thadn't done anything with sensors up until recently13:59
lbtwould be worth knowing - if it's not a regression then it won't be a release blocker14:00
Stskeepsprolly exists in older too14:01
lbtwasn't sure when we put the Qt5 stuff in14:01
Stskeepslong ago14:02
lbterm, Mobility14:02
lbtOK - so in that case I don't think it's a blocker14:02
lbtsent out release email Sage_ - ty for the reminder14:03
lbtalso http://www.merproject.org/activity updated14:03
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Sage_lbt: was it imported to cobs already long time ago or just now?15:04
Sage_lbt: Just pondering if it is safe to do -next snaphost of nemo15:04
lbtyesterday15:05
Sage_lbt: about the zypper pattern but, I haven't tested yet (will do so quite soon though). Also the zypper update is delayed due to toolchain(?) problem with new libzypp15:05
lbtOK15:06
lbtI'm thinking the sdk should be dup'ed15:06
Sage_I'm planning of doing new nemo snapshot tomorrow and then I'll test the patter dup thingy15:06
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rcg-workwhy are some jobs i cobs only run on worker4?16:25
rcg-work*in16:25
Stskeepspower host, ie, for tough jobs16:25
rcg-worki see16:26
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* rcg-work pokes the webkitgtk3 build job with a stick16:27
Stskeepsah16:28
Stskeeps:P16:28
Stskeepscheck the mer patches for webkit to make it lighter16:28
rcg-worknah, that's not my one16:28
Stskeepsstill :P16:28
rcg-worki waiting for my qt job to be scheduled ;)16:28
rcg-work*i am16:28
Stskeeps:P16:28
rcg-workactually i just want to build libqdeclarative but i couldn't figure out how to pull qt apart in pieces16:31
Stskeepsyou don't typically, only in qt516:31
rcg-workright16:32
rcg-workwell.. gonna go home soon anyway.. maybe when i am at home and finished with the home tasks there's some progress :)16:33
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* CosmoHill is not happy to come home to find someone brute forcing his wordpress17:10
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CosmoHillhahahaha17:23
CosmoHillfor two hours my server has been sending him error messages cos that wordpress wasn't setup properly17:24
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ljpare there any images for the pre-release?18:12
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Stskeepshmm, i think we'll have some nemo ones tomorrow18:13
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Sage_hmmp... I could actually start preparing those already now instead of hacking on mer :)18:30
Sage_http://piratepad.net/5b4AxHs0Tc :)18:30
Stskeepsyess18:30
Stskeeps:P18:30
Stskeepsah18:31
Stskeeps:P18:31
Sage_was planning of getting /lib cleaned for next mer release ;)18:31
Stskeepsworthwhile18:31
Stskeepsyou need a filesystem patch too18:31
Sage_I don't actually for things I planned18:31
Stskeepswell18:32
Stskeepsone that symlinks /lib to /usr/lib , /sbin -> /usr/sbin18:32
Sage_ldconfig finds libs from /lib and /usr/lib both so it shouldn't be needed18:32
Stskeepsetc18:32
Stskeepsyeah, but you've obviously never dealt with dynamic linkers18:32
Stskeepseach binary encodes a ld-linux.so path18:32
Stskeeps:P18:32
Sage_yes, but well I'm not moving that one ;)18:32
Stskeeps:P18:33
Sage_not touching to toolchain related packages ;)18:33
Sage_you can handle those ;)18:33
Sage_also not touching systemd yet18:33
[ol]Are you guys talking about moving everything to /usr as Fedora did recently?18:34
Sage_personally I would like to see no /lib -> /usr/lib link needed thus going through the hard way18:34
Sage_[ol]: yes18:34
Sage_[ol]: comments are welcome :)18:35
[ol]I understand reasons for doing this in Fedora: /usr can be NFS-mounted while local settings are still local. But what's the reason to do it on a mobile device?18:35
[ol]Why not get rid of /usr instead of moving everything there?18:36
Stskeeps[ol]: the reason is simply that it's starting to become a bit of a mess to avoid not moving18:36
Stskeepsso we're kinda being swept along18:36
* Sage_ NFS and TV mmm... :)18:37
[ol]Look at Plan9. They made it the right way. They don't have /usr at all.18:37
[ol]And, BTW, this scenario with /usr NFS mounted can be achieved easily without /usr at all if using union mounts. Many years ago I've make FreeBSD thin client with NFS-mounted root and union-mounted local /etc and /var on top of it.18:38
Stskeeps[ol]: i think /usr as a seperate mount has not really been working for a long while, though..18:40
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Stskeeps[ol]: the issue is very practical for us, we're starting to get more and more bugs due to path mismatces18:40
[ol]Stskeeps: Exactly. That means that /usr is not needed at all. It should just contain compatibility symlinks.18:40
Stskeepsie, /sbin/modprobe while it's in /usr/sbin/modprobe18:40
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[ol]I see two ways to solve this. First, short-term solution would be to have symlinks in /usr for compatibility. Second, long-term soution would be to change RPM build environment to use / instead of /usr as a standard prefix for package installation.18:43
Stskeepswell, it's kind of the sane isn't it, either you symlink /bin -> /usr/bin, or you do /usr -> /18:43
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Stskeepsand i don't like /usr -> /, it's a bit icky18:44
Stskeeps:P18:44
[ol]Stskeeps: No, I'd think about having /usr/bin -> /bin, /usr/lib -> lib etc.18:44
Stskeepsmm, maybe18:44
Sage_..18:44
Sage_[ol]: what you suggest is the same thing we are doing actually when moving all to /usr ;)18:45
Sage_or well our move to /usr is the first step of what you suggested18:45
[ol]Sage_: No, the other way around.18:45
Sage_as when we are moving to /usr we are using %{prefix} and macros that use %{prefix} istead of the hardoded paths18:45
[ol]The right thing is to move everything to root.18:46
[ol]So %{prefix} should be just empty.18:46
Sage_[ol]: after we are done that happens just by chaging %{prefix}18:46
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Sage_currently we can't change %{prefix} because each package uses different approach18:47
[ol]Sage_: So, what's the reason to not change prefix right now?18:47
Stskeeps[ol]: a quick calculation in my head on places that has hardcoded /usr/lib vs places that has hardcoded /lib reasons me towards that i'd prefer fedora's approach - i do understand your viewpoint though and somewhat agree18:47
Stskeepsbut the workload to do it is bigger and it'd put us out of alignment with fedora, which we keep fairly close to in some items18:47
Sage_[ol]: well we don't want to just said that our doings support your idea as well ;)18:48
[ol]Stskeeps: Keeping up with Fedora is good, but there's no reason to follow its mistakes.18:48
Stskeeps[ol]: i would agree if we had more hands18:49
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Sage_[ol]: I'm saying that currently following things are done: /sbin, /usr/sbin, %{prefix}/sbin, %{_sbindir}, %{_prefix}/%{_sbin}. So unifying the stuff should be the first step anyway as we don't have more than 2 hands (mine, ... ? ) doing this atm. and we need to keep everything intact still ;)18:50
[ol]Also, it would be easier to do the right thing now when the set of packages is relatively minimal than to try to change later with much more packages to change.18:50
Stskeeps[ol]: also.. the switch also means we will switch to %{_prefix} for most packages18:51
Stskeepsso theoretically we can switch back at will, too18:51
Stskeepsinstead of hardcoded /lib/18:51
[ol]Stskeeps: There could be problems with some binary-only packages when Mer-based phones appear.18:52
[ol]I'm not sure whether Jolla will provide SRPMS for all its packages.18:52
Sage_http://review.merproject.org/#patch,sidebyside,898,1,libgpg-error.spec <- cleaning up the mess like this18:53
[ol]But anyway, making symlinks in /usr can solve problems in the beginning. Or even better, making bind mounts, so RPM won't get confused.18:53
Stskeepsi'd really avoid bind mounts if possible..18:53
[ol]Why avoid bind mounts?18:55
Stskeepsbecause those feel a bit dirty on device :P18:55
Stskeeps[ol]: well, let's do it this way, we'll switch to that we use sane %{_prefix}, no hardcoded /lib etc, that needs to be done for your idea anyway18:55
Stskeepsthen we can do some example builds with both approaches18:55
[ol]Or, even better, with randomly generated %{prefix}. :-)18:56
Stskeepsshould be feasible with varying filesystem package / rpm config18:56
Stskeepsthat's another good test, yeah18:56
Stskeepsi'll expect some help to fix issues for your approach though18:56
Sage_\o/ more hands \o/18:56
[ol]Sounds like a plan.18:57
Stskeepsalright then18:57
Stskeepsthough i'll reserve the right of choosing the final approach, but as mer is meant to be hackable, you may choose your own approach as well18:57
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[ol]Regarding bind mounts, I don't think that name resolution will be more complicated than with symlinks. Bind mounts just look more natural.18:58
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Stskeeps:nod:18:59
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zchydemevening19:01
Jope19:01
Stskeepsevening19:01
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[ol]And to reinforce my reasoning about getting rid of /usr I'll just provide a short historical note. On early UNIX systems, there was /usr directory which contained home directories. There was user called bin which owned binary programs. Also, there was user called man which owned manuals. Hence there were /usr/bin and /usr/man directories.19:03
Stskeeps:nod:19:03
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[ol]Then it was noticed that having /usr as a separate filesystem was advantageous on unreliable hadrware of that times, so even if it fails to mount, we still have a minimal root with fsck to repair broken /usr filesystem which is much larger and more likely to break.19:05
Stskeepsand yet people went for initramfs, heh19:05
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[ol]And, BTW, there were no shared libraries and all system utilities and daemons were placed in /etc, not in /sbin. The name /etc was meaning just that: everything else.19:07
[ol]So /etc was a place to put everything not belonging anywhere else: password file, system utilities and daemons.19:08
[ol]The first time I've seen separate /var, /sbin, /libexec and /usr/share was in BSD 4.4 (I think, it was already in BSD 4.3 Reno, but I didn't have experience with it).19:10
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[ol]Later, when the same people who were behind UNIX created Plan9, they decided that the order of mounting filesystems is just an implementation detail and should be hidden. Hence, Plan9 has no user-visible /usr. It just boots with minimal filesystems and then union-mounts everything else on top of it. Also, Plan9 has namespaces like modern Linux has, so every user logged in sees /~ directory as his own homedir.19:16
Stskeepsyeah, i've studied plan919:16
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[ol]Very nice system, isn't it? It's pity they've opensourced it in 2000, not in 1990.19:17
Stskeepsyeah.. a bit late19:18
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JopeI guess initrd was inevitable once we started getting more ram in the machines19:19
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Jopebut looking at this ubuntu box, these initrds wouldn't have fit into ram back in the olden times19:19
Jope:-D19:19
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[ol]Or may be initrd will become obsolete in the future when Grub grows into the full-featured OS.19:23
Jopehehhe19:23
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[ol]It already understands USB storage, TFTP, LVM and encrypted partitions.19:24
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* lbt keeps away from the / vs /usr discussion on the grounds that there's the best technical solution and then there's what we should do now :)19:36
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CosmoHillhi19:45
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lbtmmm mic is 2 releases behind now... should review the new one19:50
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lbtif os.path.exists(self._instroot + "/usr/bin/Xorg"): subprocess.call(["/bin/chmod", "u+s", "/usr/bin/Xorg"],20:09
lbtin the mic code for the 'raw' image generator....20:10
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lbtgrumble... no network in vbox21:20
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lbtphaeron: ping21:35
phaeronlbt: pong21:35
lbthey - was there a problem with eth0 and dhcp in VMs ?21:36
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phaeronnot with the adaptation-pc kernel , no21:38
lbtI'm not getting a dhcp address and not sure how to21:40
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lbtcan't see any docs21:41
CosmoHillnight night21:42
lbtphaeron: so ... did you do something to the kernel21:42
phaeronlbt: no21:42
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phaeronnothing special21:42
phaeronkvm does that builtin dnsmasq thing21:43
lbtright21:43
phaeronand libvirt also does dnsmasq21:43
lbtso I have an eth0 and I can ifconfig it and it works21:43
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lbtbut it's not doing any dhcp requests21:44
lbtand I thought this was a connman function21:44
phaeronmaybe connman is not starting21:46
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Jake9xxlbt: but if you configure it , you can ping the host ?22:01
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lbtlooks like mer-kickstarter didn't add the Groups: Mer Connectivity to the ,ks22:02
lbt(or complain)22:03
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