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| deztructor | morning, dark and wet ;) | 03:46 |
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| iekku | morning | 05:16 |
| dm8tbr | moaning | 05:17 |
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| situ | Morning everyone.. | 05:27 |
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| timoph | köh | 05:42 |
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| Stskeeps | morn guys | 05:58 |
| Venemo_N9 | morning :) | 06:01 |
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| mikhas | Stskeeps, is mer still using composite WM? | 06:14 |
| Stskeeps | mikhas: it's using mcompositor in nemo | 06:14 |
| mikhas | odd | 06:14 |
| Stskeeps | why? | 06:15 |
| Stskeeps | is there something broken, or? | 06:16 |
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| mikhas | compositing in recent Maliit is, for Nemo | 06:18 |
| mikhas | and w00t muttered the unholy words of self compositing … | 06:18 |
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| mikhas | I thought we had slayed that dragon … | 06:18 |
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| Stskeeps | well, mcompositor isn't going away for x11, but we can fix what needs to be fixed | 06:20 |
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| Venemo_N9 | mikhas, I think w00t is very forward-thinking when it comes to these things. but we're not there yet. | 06:24 |
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| Stskeeps | mikhas: so what particular issues are you running into? | 06:25 |
| mikhas | I need to test whether self-composite Maliit still works, but should for X11. | 06:25 |
| mikhas | https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456 | 06:25 |
| Merbot | Nemo bug 456 in Maliit "Maliit needs an upgrade (with significant changes)" [Normal,New] | 06:25 |
| * Stskeeps waits for his slow pc.. | 06:25 | |
| mikhas | Stskeeps, the thing is that QML plugins still use a full-screen surface, whereas the C++ plugin uses one window per element. | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 06:26 |
| mikhas | The C++ plugin renders much more efficiently on bigger screens than QML plugins, due to that … | 06:26 |
| mikhas | But on smaller screens, the difference should never be noticable. In fact, the HW acceleration should make the QML plugin faster. | 06:26 |
| Stskeeps | and mcompositor doesn't really support windows on the screen, as it prefers full screen? | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | (sorry if i sound daft..) | 06:27 |
| mikhas | yes | 06:27 |
| mikhas | no, you go it | 06:27 |
| mikhas | mcompositor strictly thinks and operates in "one window per app" mode, AFAIK | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok, the reason it prefers full screen is due to it being able to flip the full screen frames to framebuffer directly | 06:27 |
| mikhas | yup | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | which makes a lot of sense, direct rendering, etc | 06:27 |
| mikhas | but mcompositor also assumes that for the window management when it comes to multi-tasking | 06:28 |
| mikhas | (and self-compositing uses direct rendering, in Maliit) | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 06:29 |
| Stskeeps | and we removed self-compositing support in maliit, i recall? | 06:29 |
| mikhas | I never tested it after we moved to surface API | 06:30 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 06:30 |
| mikhas | I am pretty sure we will break that feature by accident, if we haven't done so yet. | 06:31 |
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| Stskeeps | is there any alternatives to self-composition that'd require some support in compositor? | 06:32 |
| mikhas | there are some tests in place to prevent that, but they are not very good | 06:32 |
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| mikhas | Too early to ask for workaround/alternatives. I don't know what else could be done. | 06:32 |
| mikhas | 1. You guys need self-compositing in Maliit, 2. We need to find a way to unbreak the feature/keep it working … | 06:33 |
| mikhas | For Qt5/Wayland, this is hopefully going to die. | 06:33 |
| * Stskeeps hopes so too | 06:34 | |
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| tanuk | Stskeeps: Currently the pulseaudio module configuration file is decided by parsing /etc/boardname. Do you think that approach is great, and should not be changed? | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 08:43 |
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| Stskeeps | it helps hw adaptation a lot | 08:43 |
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| tanuk | It has the problem that the hw adaptation gets to decide all of the configuration. | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | well, at least the starting point? | 08:44 |
| tanuk | I'd like to split the configuration into three independent parts: hw adaptation, core (the same for everybody) and ux (policy). | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | makes sense | 08:45 |
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| tanuk | Stskeeps: There could be a top-level configuration file that has include directives for the three parts. The three parts could be symlinks to the real files. This prevents the use of /etc/boardname, though. | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | or somehow make it into an environemnt variable? | 08:50 |
| tanuk | Stskeeps: The PA configuration file parsing doesn't support expanding env variables. It could be added, but if we start hacking on the parser, maybe it would make sense to just add support for parsing /etc/boardname directly? | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | maybe | 08:53 |
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| tanuk | Stskeeps: Anyway, this could be solved also by making the adaptation packages provide the symlinks that I mentioned. | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | true, though as an example, we might have same image for multiple devices | 08:53 |
| tanuk | How does /etc/boardname get initialized? | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | boardname.service -> boardname | 08:55 |
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| tanuk | Does kernel do the board detection, or how do you avoid making separate images for different boards? | 08:56 |
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| Stskeeps | /proc/cpuinfo or dmi information, etc | 08:57 |
| tanuk | Ok. | 08:58 |
| tanuk | I guess getting /etc/boardname support to PA upstream would be possible. Need to discuss it there. | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, its kind of mer specific | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | / meego | 08:58 |
| tanuk | Yes, you can't rely on having it available everywhere, but if it's available, then there should be no problem with using it. | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 09:02 |
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| rem | hi, I tried the instructions in wiki for usb Networking from ubuntu but they look bit outdated, any comments on this ? | 09:24 |
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| tanuk | rem: What problems are you having? At least one useful thing is missing: instructions for getting a stable mac address for the device. | 09:26 |
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| rem | tanuk: sure, i can update the wiki if someone provide correct info :-) I am not getting connectivity. usb0 interface looks ok | 09:29 |
| tanuk | rem: I'm in the process of adding the information myself. | 09:29 |
| tanuk | rem: By "not getting connectivity", do you mean that ubuntu (networkmanager) is repeatedly trying to make a connection, but can't get it established? | 09:30 |
| rem | tanuk: perfect, you save my day. I am very impatient with finger terminal :-) | 09:30 |
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| rem | tanuk: yes that too, and trying telnet 192.168.2.15 do not work | 09:34 |
| tanuk | rem: I don't know about telnet. I tried once and it didn't work, and I haven't needed it ever since. | 09:34 |
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| rem | tanuk: you mean you can do ssh to same address ? | 09:35 |
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| tanuk | rem: Yes, if you use Nemo, an ssh server is preinstalled. | 09:36 |
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| rem | tanuk: let me know when you are ready with changes | 09:41 |
| tanuk | yep | 09:42 |
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| tanuk | rem: done | 09:54 |
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| rem | tanuk: thanks, it worked like charm. One thing I did was to use the mac address from dev interface, was that your idea in first place ? | 10:00 |
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| tanuk | rem: What dev interface? | 10:01 |
| tanuk | rem: The mac address doesn't matter. What matters is that you configure it to be something, otherwise it will always be different. | 10:02 |
| rem | tanuk: the usb0 interface in the device | 10:02 |
| tanuk | rem: 00:11:22:33:44:55 is easier to recognize and type, but otherwise it doesn't matter. | 10:03 |
| rem | tanuk: true | 10:03 |
| tanuk | rem: A static address is important, because otherwise networkmanager doesn't know that it's the same device when you plug it in again, so any configuration that you do in networkmanager will be lost. | 10:04 |
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| rem | tanuk: thanks. The network manager config helped the reconnection issue as well | 10:05 |
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| xbarmar | Does anyone know what are the rights settings of serial console (bauds, parity, etc) for N9? | 10:25 |
| * dm8tbr pokes kjokinie - that's your field isn't it? | 10:28 | |
| kjokinie | xbarmar: 115200 8N1, no flow controls | 10:29 |
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| xbarmar | kjokinie: thanks! | 10:30 |
| kjokinie | xbarmar: np | 10:30 |
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| jnikula | kimju: it seems the pvr/sgx in n900_kernel.git master has some problem since screen stays blank. It works in CE:Adaptation:N900/kernel-adaptation-n900 though | 10:43 |
| jnikula | kimju: anyway I'd like to use pvr from n900_kernel.git as there is it has more tracable history | 10:45 |
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| xbarmar | kjokinie: I tried with those settings and all I can see on /dev/ttyS0 is garbage. | 10:52 |
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| xbarmar | I'm trying to boot 3.5 kernel (mer-n9-kernel) for N9 | 10:52 |
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| kimju | jnikula, hmm.. the 2.6.something branch or 3.0-wip ? | 10:52 |
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| jnikula | kimju: master so 2.6.37 | 10:52 |
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| kimju | jnikula, that should have been in sync with the obs version. hmm.. | 10:53 |
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| jnikula | kimju: diffstat between trees is 219 files changed, 29403 insertions(+), 27180 deletions(-) | 10:53 |
| kjokinie | xbarmar: are you sure the connector is properly attached? have you enabled the serial console with maemo flasher? | 10:53 |
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| xbarmar | yes, I have enabled it with > flasher --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=serial-console | 10:54 |
| xbarmar | kjokinie: For the connector, hard to say since I to make it 'slimmer' to fit into the slot | 10:54 |
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| kjokinie | xbarmar: the connector is quite delicate, it easily falls out of place | 10:55 |
| kimju | jnikula, okay, they are not in sync :D | 10:55 |
| xbarmar | kjokinie: Do I need to set something extra in e.g. bootargs? | 10:56 |
| kjokinie | xbarmar: the bootargs "should" be correct with the kernel in git | 10:56 |
| rem | tanuk: why I cannot use the wifi from phone when connected to usb ? _Should both i/f work in paralell ? I got error in UI that connman is not available .... | 10:57 |
| tanuk | rem: No idea. | 10:57 |
| kjokinie | anyway ttyO2 needed in command line: console=ttyO2,115200 | 10:57 |
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| bigmeow | lol | 10:57 |
| bigmeow | what is the room for? | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | exactly what the /topic says | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | we develop a mobile core here, see www.merproject.org :) | 10:58 |
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| rem | tanuk: should I file a bug ? | 10:59 |
| bigmeow | is there any mer device? | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: vendors take mer, add a hardware adaptation and their own ui | 11:00 |
| tanuk | rem: Yes, I think that makes sense. | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: so a mer device on it's own is boring | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: and you can use a lot of existing hw for mer | 11:00 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: but i need a place to run mer, is that emulator? or physical device? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: you can do both, mer even runs on intel virtual machines | 11:01 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: so mer can be runned on which device? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Community_workspace is a good start | 11:01 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: what about vmware and vbox? | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: i develop mer in vbox myself | 11:02 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: can mer be installed to my x86 pc? | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | but remember, mer on it's own is very unsexy | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | practically only a shell login | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | you add ui and hardware support on top | 11:03 |
| jnikula | kimju: it works if I replace drivers/gpu/pvr from kernel-adaptation-n900 but not another way around | 11:04 |
| jnikula | kimju: too bad it's that way. Hopefully it's just some single patch that can be copied from adaptation or reverted in n900_kernel | 11:04 |
| bigmeow | can mer be runnerd on android device? that is , i destroy that android system, and install mer on my mobile phone:) | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: yes, but you need to do a lot of heavy lifting and hardware adaptation, so not practical | 11:05 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: since some of the hardware drivers are not open sourced, so it is impossible to write drivers for mer, right? | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | correct | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | but there's things ongoing where you can reuse android hw adaptation | 11:06 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: hope there is knid of open source hardware, then we geekers can do what we want:) | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think hopes are big | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | redistributable, possible | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | open source, not in this climate | 11:07 |
| rem | tanuk: wait, it was user error :-) I had connman stopped. | 11:07 |
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| bigmeow | how to design a smart phone, is it that difficult? | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | quite | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: welcome back | 11:09 |
| bigmeow | seems main board design should be processor oriented... | 11:09 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps: hey, thanks :) | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: i see they didn't put you to work on red flag mobile linuux | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:09 |
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| mikhas | hahaha | 11:13 |
| mikhas | yeah, me too thought that VDVsx *stays* | 11:13 |
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| jnikula | kimju: odd. It kernel-adaptation-n900 contains all the pvr patches in n900_kernel in a single commit + one patch on top of it. But that patch doesn't apply on top of n900_kernel | 11:14 |
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| jnikula | kimju: forgot previous... I didn't run 'git clean -fd' :-) | 11:15 |
| mikhas | Stskeeps, more Qt 5 fixes rolling in, do you plan to port to Qt 5 w/o deprecated support? | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | deprecated in qt5? | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | i think i'll probably start with deprecated due to the porting of stack.. | 11:16 |
| mikhas | OK. | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see | 11:16 |
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| xbarmar | kjokinie: What about a data bits, stop bits and parity: 8, 1 and none ? | 11:17 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps: mikhas ahahaha :P they barely have computers :P | 11:19 |
| bigmeow | how to build mer? | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: you don't typically :) but start with wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Getting_Started | 11:20 |
| bigmeow | what OBS means? | 11:20 |
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| Stskeeps | OBS is a build farm software | 11:20 |
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| bigmeow | is that a build system used to build softwares? | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 11:23 |
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| bigmeow | i don't have N900, N950 or ExoPC | 11:24 |
| bigmeow | is mer more open source than android? | 11:26 |
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| kjokinie | xbarmar: yes, 8N1 | 11:30 |
| jnikula | kimju: \o/ your tree works if you apply linux-2.6.37-upgrade-sgx-driver.patch from /CE:Adaptation:N900/kernel-adaptation-n900 | 11:30 |
| bigmeow | http://img01.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i1/T1mqGaXlBmXXX.7Tw1_042445.jpg_310x310.jpg | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: mer is fully open source | 11:30 |
| bigmeow | is this n900? | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | no, that's not n900 | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:30 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: lol, i would like to get a mer device:) | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | in fact.. what is that | 11:30 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: but the seller said it is :( | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's nokia n90 | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 | 11:31 |
| dm8tbr | I'd say it's a KIRF | 11:31 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: which device is best supported by mer? | 11:33 |
| bigmeow | dm8tbr: what is KIRF? | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: mer doesn't contain hardware support, you add that on top of mer itself, but there's a pretty good one for nokia n900 | 11:33 |
| dm8tbr | http://www.engadget.com/tag/kirf/ | 11:34 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: why there is no hardware support? | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: it's a philosophical thing to make the thing more portable and less political discussions | 11:36 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: can mer be runned G4? | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | what's a G4? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:38 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: google phone g4 | 11:40 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: can i build nginx for mer device? | 11:41 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: can i install iptables to mer? | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | probably, but spend some time researching :) | 11:43 |
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| kontio | mardy, ping | 12:01 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: what is better for mer? N900 or N950? | 12:03 |
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| Stskeeps | n950 is unobtainable | 12:08 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: why? | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | was a developer device only in limited supply | 12:14 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: you can send me one:) i pay for it:) | 12:16 |
| bigmeow | how much is it? | 12:16 |
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| iekku | bigmeow, i can sell mine | 12:17 |
| bigmeow | iekku: how much? | 12:17 |
| iekku | bigmeow, only 25kEUR | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: not legal to sell | 12:17 |
| iekku | oh crap, didn't remember that | 12:17 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: why not legal? who product n950? | 12:17 |
| mikhas | but you could donate for my charity project | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: it was given as a developer device for free to some | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: with strict conditions of no sale | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | even says it in the metal :P | 12:19 |
| mikhas | and then I *might* send you a X-mas present with a strange display and a hardware keyboard | 12:19 |
| iekku | mikhas, buah | 12:20 |
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| bigmeow | mikhas: what is your project? | 12:25 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: lol, i want to be a developer:) | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: sure, you don't need a device to do that ;) | 12:25 |
| mikhas | a charity project … and sending out strange devices for X-mas | 12:25 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: i need:( | 12:25 |
| mikhas | well, that's my *new* project, at least | 12:25 |
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| Bostik | being a developer who gets showered with weird hardware is fun only as long as you have storage space | 12:29 |
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| Bostik | once the gizmos start to pour out and invade all available surfaces... | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | Bostik: you should see my office | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still pondering wtf to use my omapzoom2 for.. | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:30 |
| Bostik | bwah | 12:30 |
| mardy | kontio: hi! :-) | 12:30 |
| kontio | hi | 12:30 |
| Bostik | at leaast I don't have any numbered special devices where even getting rid of them is legally dubious | 12:31 |
| kontio | mardy, we face a problem with tests.xml in libsignoncrypto-qt-tests :-) | 12:31 |
| kontio | problem is that the tests xml expects to have: | 12:31 |
| kontio | libsignoncrypto-qt-test1 and libsignoncrypto-qt-test2, these files are copied from libsignoncrypto-qt-test during debian packaging in Harmattan case. And libsignoncrypto-qt-test1 gets aegis token and libsignoncrypto-qt-test2 not. | 12:31 |
| kontio | in mer/nemo we use rpm :-) and aegis is nor relevant... | 12:32 |
| mardy | kontio: then I guess you need only libsignoncrypto-qt-test2 | 12:33 |
| mardy | kontio: who is maintaining those packages? I think that no one is using them outside of Mer, so I'd say you can modify them freely | 12:33 |
| kontio | mardy, I was just wondering it it would make sense to have the harmattan specific tests.xml just in harmattan branch... and a more generic in master branch? | 12:34 |
| mardy | kontio: if you think that someone still cares about harmattan, yes :-) | 12:35 |
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| kontio | mardy, probably nobody cares about harmattan any more ;-) so if I provide a patch to replace the tests.xml that's working fine in mer you would accept it? | 12:36 |
| kontio | and what is your preferred way to get the patch? issue in googlecode or on the ML? | 12:37 |
| kontio | and as long as nobody merges from master to harmattan the harmattan version stays intact... | 12:38 |
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| mardy | kontio: AFAIK, that package is not used by anyone, so I'd rather grant you commit access | 12:40 |
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| mardy | kontio: then you'd get commit access to all the other repos as well, but for them we always use code reviews | 12:41 |
| kontio | mardy, sure you can otherwise kick me the next time we see us :-) | 12:44 |
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| mardy | kontio: :-) | 12:47 |
| kontio | mardy, ok will do it on Monday, our net will die in about 10min, since we move some floor up this weekend... | 12:48 |
| kontio | nice we | 12:48 |
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| bigmeow | can i install mer to n900? | 12:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | bigmeow: why not ? | 12:50 |
| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: how? | 12:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | bigmeow: give a try at Nemo. It is Mer based | 12:50 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | bigmeow: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N900 | 12:51 |
| bigmeow | http://i.imgur.com/jCV7Z.jpg | 12:51 |
| bigmeow | seems not nice, full of bug:( | 12:51 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | this is plasma active | 12:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nemo is full of bugs, yeah, but not that full | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | and an old image, if anything.. | 12:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it is quite nice these days :) | 12:52 |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 12:52 | |
| bigmeow | how to install uboot to phone? | 12:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | follow tut | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: google will give you those answers | 12:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it should be clear | 12:53 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it is even in the wiki | 12:53 |
| bigmeow | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot seems my phone may become a brick:( | 12:55 |
| bigmeow | if it is pc, i can install bootloader using cdrom or usbdisk | 12:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | if you are afraid, bigmeow, then don't do it | 12:56 |
| bigmeow | but once my phone become brick, that phone should be abandon:( | 12:56 |
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| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: bigmeow is not affraid:) | 12:56 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I bricked my phone a thousand times | 12:57 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | flasher is my friend | 12:57 |
| bigmeow | so if my phone become a brick, how to reinstall uboot to it? | 12:57 |
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| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: i mean the damage to bootload | 12:57 |
| bigmeow | er | 12:57 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | flasher is still your friend | 12:58 |
| bigmeow | without uboot you cannot reflash system to your phone:( | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: n900 is practically unbrickable unless you do something truly stupid | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: uboot doesnt replace your bootloader | 12:58 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Stskeeps: unless you destroy the usb port :D | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | or that | 12:59 |
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| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: you mean i should melt that circuit parts from my phone , then reflash it using a flasher? | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | :D | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | lol no | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | you can ALWAYS use flasher to reflash from your PC | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | unless the usb port is broken, obvioulsy | 13:00 |
| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: angry:( i don't know circuits well:( | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and it is said that N900's port is quite fragile | 13:00 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nothing to do with circuits | 13:00 |
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| bigmeow | Sfiet_Konstantin: what i should do if the uboot of n900 is broken? | 13:01 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:01 |
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| bigmeow | how system is booted? | 13:10 |
| bigmeow | seems system must boot from one fixed address, usuaaly booloader resides there | 13:10 |
| bigmeow | so the system will start to execute bootloader first | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | it varies from machine to machine. | 13:11 |
| bigmeow | then the bootloader start to boot the os:) | 13:11 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: yes, but they all start to run from fixed address, right? | 13:11 |
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| bigmeow | oh, i know why n900 could not be a brick now:) | 13:22 |
| bigmeow | since all data are stored on sd card | 13:22 |
| bigmeow | and software which can be runned on windows can write bootloader to the right place of that sd card, right | 13:23 |
| bigmeow | ? | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | not exactly | 13:23 |
| bigmeow | then system can boot bootloader | 13:23 |
| bigmeow | then loader boot the os, yes? | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's just that the u-boot is actually put where kernel would be | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | and the bootloader isn't replaced | 13:23 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 13:23 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: then why n900 could not become a real brick? | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | because the bootloader won't let you | 13:24 |
| bigmeow | i know some embeded system can beome brick, we may repair it using ttl or jtag | 13:24 |
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| bigmeow | if ttl and jtag fails, we have to melt some circuit part off, and reflash it using some specific devices:( | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but this is just flashable again if you blow sw up | 13:25 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: why uboot isn't replaced? | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | can we just let it be at that n900 isn't brickable? :) | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | the bootloader isn't u-boot, bootloader loads u-boot | 13:26 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: of course uboot can be reflashed, since someone may build uboot by himself, then flash it to n900 | 13:26 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: two stage bootloader? | 13:27 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: what is the bootloader which can loads uboot? | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | it's called NOLO and is what talks to the flasher | 13:27 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: is that bootloader implemented using hardware? | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | you're asking a lot of questions, can i ask you to spend time finding material on the web about it? | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | (please) | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | it's well described around the place | 13:28 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: ihttp://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/debian_on_the_n900-_configuring_nolo/ | 13:30 |
| bigmeow | can i build NOLO myself? | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: we're drifting off topic - we discuss mer here :) | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | you're welcome to discuss n900 and the likes in #maemo | 13:31 |
| bigmeow | mer can be more popular to geekers than android:) | 13:31 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: you said NOLO... | 13:31 |
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| Stskeeps | yep, but we're not google here. long story short: mer is a collaborative and when you contribute or need help to start contributing, we're happy to help you do so, and by you contributing, you help lift the burden, and hence people have time to answer more complicated questions :) | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | as they have to do less themselves | 13:33 |
| bigmeow | ok, i would buy n900 then:) | 13:33 |
| bigmeow | so i can build mer:) | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | that's a good start | 13:34 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: in fact i have 6 android devices now:) | 13:34 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: do you have plan to port dalvik to to mer? so it can be used to run android apk:) | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | not personally, no | 13:36 |
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| bigmeow | but n900's hardware is too weak | 13:37 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: why not... | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | because i have better things to do :) | 13:37 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: dude, what is it then? | 13:37 |
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| Stskeeps | bigmeow: let me ask you this instead.. why don't you port dalvik? :) | 13:40 |
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| bigmeow | Stskeeps: dude, that is a big project, nokia have tried to do that, failed:( | 13:43 |
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| mikhas | perhaps nokia was too big to succeed? | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: i'm more interesting in using android hardware adaptations for mer, the apps themselves.. well, not much fun if you can't run your system on any hardware | 13:45 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: yes, but just now you said it is impossible:( | 13:46 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: maybe you can design an open source mer device:) i mean open sourced hardware:) | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | bigmeow: there are other people better at that. | 13:48 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: who is better at that? | 13:49 |
| bigmeow | Stskeeps: do you use gtalk? | 13:50 |
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| Superpelican | Found this: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Python_BoF | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 17:08 |
| Superpelican | Which says: "What Python packages are suitable for MeeGo repos? openSUSE and Fedora packages can be used almost without modification." | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | yes but in mer, prolly need recompiles | 17:09 |
| Superpelican | Yes, I know have to compile for different arch | 17:09 |
| Superpelican | But maybe I could reuse a lot of config files | 17:10 |
| Superpelican | Maybe .spec file? | 17:10 |
| Superpelican | To get Python 3 running properly | 17:10 |
| Superpelican | Also I found that Python 3 is available for Harmattan/N9 | 17:10 |
| Superpelican | In a special "Meego SDK" extra repo | 17:10 |
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| Superpelican | Maybe that is useful too | 17:11 |
| Superpelican | See: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82411 | 17:11 |
| Superpelican | *Harmattan SDK repo | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | harmattan isnt meego | 17:11 |
| Superpelican | I know | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | .deb based | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | But maybe I could reuse some files | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | To get P3 running properly | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | Or maybe even just use Alien | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | To convert to .rpm | 17:12 |
| Superpelican | Probably I will get Python 3 running just fine on Mer, if I collect the pieces of information available on the web | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:14 |
| Superpelican | At least I don't have to do everything from scratch | 17:14 |
| Superpelican | Also could someone tell me how to change sb2 build target in Mer SDK? | 17:16 |
| Superpelican | I think it's set to X86 right now | 17:16 |
| Superpelican | As I was able to run a compiled python interpreter on my X86 computer | 17:16 |
| vgrade | http://blog.openwebosproject.org/ | 17:17 |
| Superpelican | vgrade: Yes, WebOS was also a beautiful OS | 17:18 |
| Superpelican | Really hope Jolla reuses some of the WebOS UI ideas | 17:18 |
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| * Stskeeps hopes to enable community to do amazing things previously reserved for bigger companies. | 17:21 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:21 |
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| Superpelican | A .rpm doesn't contain a program's source code, right? | 17:28 |
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| Stskeeps | correct | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | except if it's a src.rpm | 17:28 |
| Superpelican | Maybe this is useful: https://build.opensuse.org/package/files?package=python3&project=openSUSE%3A12.2 | 17:32 |
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| Superpelican | Mer Project uses Zypper and not Yum, right? | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | right | 17:44 |
| Superpelican | Phew | 17:44 |
| Superpelican | Have bad experiences with yum | 17:44 |
| Superpelican | It's so slow | 17:44 |
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| Superpelican | My first distro was Ubuntu | 17:44 |
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| Superpelican | So I'm used to apt | 17:45 |
| Superpelican | Which is very fast | 17:45 |
| Superpelican | Hope Zypper comes close to apt in speed | 17:45 |
| Superpelican | Going to try openSUSE 12.2 soon | 17:45 |
| Superpelican | Especially now I'm planning to buy a Jolla Phone | 17:45 |
| Superpelican | And contribute to Mer | 17:45 |
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| Superpelican | I would like to give KDE an rpm a chance again | 17:46 |
| Superpelican | After bad experiences with Fedora (RPM, Yum, very slow) and KDE (Kubuntu, lots of crashes) | 17:47 |
| Superpelican | They say openSUSE is the best KDE distro | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 17:47 |
| Superpelican | Having a Qt based GUI and Zypper package management on both phone and laptop is very appealing | 17:48 |
| Superpelican | So I how do start packaging Python to a .rpm? | 17:49 |
| Superpelican | Should I use OBS? | 17:49 |
| Superpelican | Do you have to create an account for OBS? | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | try to build it on its own in sdk and notice build dependencies | 17:49 |
| Superpelican | With OSC tool? | 17:50 |
| Superpelican | Or can SB2 also build .rpms? | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:51 |
| Superpelican | K, going to explore SB2 in that case | 17:53 |
| Superpelican | sb2 --help ;-) | 17:54 |
| Superpelican | Also how do you set SB2 target? | 17:54 |
| Superpelican | sb2-config -d <target> didn't work for me | 17:54 |
| Superpelican | It gives an error that the target is not correct | 17:55 |
| Superpelican | Is there a special naming policy for sb2 targets? | 17:55 |
| Superpelican | http://maemo.gitorious.org/scratchbox2/pages/Home sb2 wikid oesn't seem to give away much information either :-( | 17:59 |
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| Superpelican | stskeeps: How should I package my compiled python interpreter in to a .rpm with sb2? | 18:13 |
| Superpelican | stskeeps: can't find any sb2 parameters for packaging software | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | start with making it build first | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | without rpm | 18:13 |
| Superpelican | I've already done that last time | 18:14 |
| Superpelican | For both Python2.7 and Python3 | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 18:14 |
| Superpelican | I can't just run setup.py bdist_rpm of python3 source to build a .rpm? | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | maybe | 18:16 |
| Superpelican | But what's the preferred way? | 18:17 |
| Superpelican | Should I use setup.py bdist_rpm, OSC/OBS or SB2? | 18:17 |
| Superpelican | I'm confused | 18:17 |
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| Superpelican | stskeeps: Is it possible to use rpm command itself to package python interpreter? | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | read 'max rpm' book | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | is very useful | 18:34 |
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| Superpelican | Stskeeps: but what is the preferred way to package software for the Mer Project? | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | .spec :) and rpmbuild , deep down | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | obs uses rpmbuild too | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | sb2 you run rpmbuild inside | 18:37 |
| Superpelican | Stskeeps: So where to start? | 18:37 |
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| CosmoHill | night night | 23:27 |
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