Thursday, 2012-09-20

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Sage_lbt_away: I was reading the guide and started to wonder why #SB2_Setup uses /parentroot and #Alternate_targets does not? Also isn't parentroot atm. readonly?04:13
Sage_I'm guessing it is just a "typo" but not entirely sure (target vs alternate target) ;)04:16
* Sage_ ponders how to remove sb2 target04:24
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timophrm $HOME/.scratchbox2/<targetname>04:35
Sage_it is "rm -r" and I'll add that to sb2 guide04:37
* Sage_ ponders why there is debian.conf in our target dir04:38
Stskeepslook past that04:39
timophI think sb2-init creates it04:39
Sage_Stskeeps: I would think you know my eyes already ;)04:40
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Stskeepsmorn kostaja04:56
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lbtSage_: "Alternate Targets" is user contributed06:02
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lbtputting the target in /parentroot makes it available in multiple SDK instances06:03
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situMorning everyone06:18
Stskeepsmorn situ06:19
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* ljp waves06:20
Stskeepsmorn ljp06:20
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iekkuhello smita_06:21
smita_iekku, Hi06:21
situStskeeps: Qt5 beta still hanging on tree.06:22
Stskeepssitu: yeah, i am fixing up qttools06:22
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Bostikew, that might be quite badly shaken up (specwise)06:32
Stskeepsit is06:33
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w00tlbt: what scripting languages are safe for use in the SDK?08:42
w00tif I keep using sh I think I'm going to want to hurt someone08:42
lbtyeah - python is probably best08:43
lbtwe have perl for real work08:43
lbtand ruby for masochists08:43
w00taww you have ruby!08:43
lbtyeah - it kinda slipped in08:43
lbtI'll probably do the SDK webui in it08:44
lbtie 'change VM SDK target'08:44
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dm8tbrlbt: ping08:58
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lbtdm8tbr: pong09:10
lbtgot your msg09:10
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cat_x301hi all; is there any ready-made mer image with wayland?09:33
Stskeepscat_x301: not yet, brewing on it..09:33
cat_x301Stskeeps: cool09:34
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Stskeepsalso, mer image for what exactly :)09:40
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cat_n9Stskeeps: i think armv7hl. But any should do as long as there is .ks for it ;)10:15
Stskeepsit is rather hw depenedent so10:15
cat_n9i know. just would like to give a shot.10:15
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* cat_n9 needs onscreen keyboard for n9 with tab key on it..10:17
Jopefingerterm? :-)10:21
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cybette+1 for fingerterm10:23
Jopeotherwise ctrl-i like a boss.10:23
Jopefor all your tabbing need.s10:23
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dm8tbrOK, move of MerBot to Mer infra completed. Old links should still work and will receive a HTTP 301 with the new location10:27
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dm8tbrthe bug module was replaced with the ububot module10:30
dm8tbrit knows: mer bug 4210:30
MerbotMer bug 42 in libffi "libffi-devel has possible bashisms in it's RPM scriptlets" [Task,Assigned]
dm8tbrnemo bug 2310:30
MerbotNemo bug 23 in Settings/ControlPanel "meegotouchcp-connman contains copy of old libconnman-qt" [Normal,Verified: fixed]
dm8tbrand defaults to mer:10:30
dm8tbrbug 12310:30
MerbotMer bug 123 in Other "Mer HA templates based on generic ATI/AMD Radeon and NVidia (probably Ion)" [Task,New]
cybettethat's cool :)10:30
dm8tbrother than that it should also know a lot of other default trackers10:30
dm8tbriekku: as the main (ab)user ^^^^^^10:31
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iekkuwho what?10:36
w00tdm8tbr: does it default to nemo in #nemomobile? :]10:37
dm8tbrw00t: that might be arranged10:39
dm8tbrw00t: done10:40
w00tdm8tbr: if i can offer another suggestion: recognise NEMO#<id> and MER#<id> templates, since those are what we're supposed to use in changelogs, commit logs, etc10:40
dm8tbrw00t: please send patches :)10:40
w00twhere's it live?10:40
dm8tbrubottu or whatever lives on launchpad10:41
w00ti'll see about having a look10:41
dm8tbr(I said that because I checked yesterday and there was no obvious way to do it)10:42
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StskeepsBostik: ping10:55
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cos-does anyone know if quim gil is still at nokia?11:09
Stskeepshe's not11:09
Stskeepshe's now with wikimedia foundation11:09
BostikStskeeps: PONG11:09
Bostikoi sorry, bloody capslock11:09
StskeepsBostik: so, i just got told that supposedly, %{_includedir}/qt5/Qt/* is as vestigal as a appendix11:09
Stskeepswhich will simplify packaging a lot11:10
jnikulakimju: should the branch n9xx-v3.0-wip in git:// boot on n900? I get a strange crash loop in pcpu_dump_alloc_info and to me it sounds like a hw or compiler issue11:10
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jnikulakimju: s/crash loop in pcpu_dump_alloc_info/crash loop starting in pcpu_dump_alloc_info and other pcpu_ functions/11:11
BostikStskeeps: oh, which way does it change now?11:11
StskeepsBostik: well QtCore/ is in qt5/QtCore/ , gui in qt5/QtGui ..11:11
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kimjujnikula, iirc it is bootable, but missing features to be usable.11:11
Bostiksanity! at last!11:11
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Bostikthat does make the packaging rules simpler11:12
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jnikulakimju: good to know. Maybe compiler or hw issue then (I'm currently running at bit overvoltage :-)11:12
StskeepsBostik: testing it out atm11:12
kimjujnikula, and that really is not in progress anymore. I haven't had enough spare time to continue with that.11:15
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jnikulakimju: yeah, it's quite difficult to forward port things that were not in upstream11:18
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BostikStskeeps: not ideal to have you working on qt5 but with the toolchain in tatters...11:28
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StskeepsBostik: toolchain was published in a snapshot11:30
Stskeepsand i need to work with qt5 myself anyway11:30
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Bostikhmh, will need to check cobs tomorrow then when I get back home11:39
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alteregoEverytime .. What package in the SDK supplies modprobe?12:10
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alteregoOh, it was the path variable .. Now I remember12:13
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w00tlbt: do we have a "useful sdk scripts" repo+package that quickbuild stuff can live in?12:18
lbtyes, sdk-kickstartef-configs is OK for now12:19
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w00t ?12:19
lbtyes, for now12:20
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w00tlbt: PR sent12:30
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lbtw00t: 3 scripts ... really?12:37
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w00tlbt: yes, really12:38
w00tbe thankful it isn't ruby12:38
lbtput the -build and -clean into functions please12:38
Stskeepsw00t: URL for PR?12:39
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w00tlbt: I just followed what git does: git is seperate from git-commit12:40
w00tI'd say that's reasonable enough precedent12:40
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lbtI'd rather have all the code in one file, there is no invocation of sub-bash shells passing environment and no replication of functions12:41
Stskeepslbt: i think w00t needs a hand to do so12:41
lbtit's not quite at git's complexity level :)12:41
Stskeepsso if you want it that way, you need to help doign it12:42
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Stskeepsfor now, let's just get the software in, and clean it up, as it works OK, but isn't perfect in terms of structure12:43
w00tshell scripting isn't exactly my greatest skill, no12:44
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* lbt wonders if that would be the response to passing a raw git tree to gerrit review12:45
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w00twell, if it's that hard for you to deal with, I'll just keep it in a seperate repo, and the sdk can suffer12:46
w00tI don't have the skill to do it, and frankly, I've sunk enough time into this already12:46
lbthonestly I prefer contributions that reduce my work, not increase it :/12:46
Stskeepswe could waste a long time discussing this, or we could grab a pastebin and get it fixed?12:46
lbtdoing that already12:46
lbtbut sometimes it's one rule in one place and another in another12:46
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lbtI get SR rejections for core for typos - this is not even packaged12:47
lbtw00t: and you know it's nothing personal12:47
w00thow am I supposed to package it before it's in a tree that *is* packaged, exactly?12:47
w00tI can't update the packaging before the pull request goes in12:48
Stskeepsthink of it as need to mentor, it's a thing we need and people pester us about on a regular basis, we don't have time to to do the whole implementation by ourselves, but if we help a bit to get it cleaner, it reduces time needed for all of us.12:48
w00tyou didn't tell me it used git-pkg12:48
lbtas I said, I'm working on it12:48
lbtw00t: no, I didn't12:48
w00tnor did OBS when I saw the packaging in there and checked that out12:48
lbtand it's not obvious12:49
lbtand yes, the docs and process still suck12:49
lbtso it's not your fault and I'm sorry for being crabby12:49
* Stskeeps offers lbt icecream12:49
lbt+ headache pills12:49
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w00tit's fine, just so long as this shows the wrinkles that someone walking in randomly is going to have trying to participate ;)12:50
lbtthere's a bug for that :)12:51
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Stskeepswhich, the 'carsten is an idiot' one?12:51
* w00t looks shifty12:52
lbtwrong bz12:52
w00tlbt: no, that one was in mer :P12:52
zuhIcecream, two balls and aspirin sprinkled on the top please.12:53
Stskeepszuh: the hangover icecream?12:53
dm8tbrsalmiakki icecream?12:54
zuhStskeeps: no, that includes not only aspirin but also hefty load of mints to wash the taste of yesterday off12:54
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coyogood morning.13:23
Stskeepsgood morning coyo13:23
Stskeepsso what brings you here to #mer ?13:24
coyohow have you been, Stskeeps?13:24
Stskeepsi'm good, thanks13:24
coyowell, i am Alex on the mailing list.13:24
coyothis is my freenode name.13:24
coyoi'm glad you are going well.13:24
Stskeepssure :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask at any time13:24
coyoi am interested in mer both as a user who wants power over his own mobile computing platform, but also as a potential developer13:25
coyothank you, Stskeeps, i actually have a few questions: can you develop mer applications with ruby?13:25
coyoor must it be C?13:25
Stskeepswell, mer sdk has ruby in it, but we don't push a central app story with mer13:26
Stskeepsit's up to vendors to work together on13:26
coyoso you do not have a central app respository, marketplace, or app store here?13:26
Stskeepscorrect - mer is just a core13:26
coyoah, okay. so i will need to host the package myself13:26
Stskeepswe do what is needed to build nice mobile products, but the UI and hardware adaptation parts are in other companies/projects13:26
coyogood to know, and not really a problem.13:26
coyowhat is the most expensive phone that mer supports?13:27
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coyocan i put mer on a samsung galaxy s iii if i get one?13:27
Stskeepswell, mer doesn't have hardware adaptations, but one example is the nokia n9 - you can put mer on it, but mer on it's own isn't sexy13:27
Stskeepsyou need a ui on top, and a working hardware adaptation with graphics acceleration13:27
coyoso mer is purely the core?13:27
Stskeepsprojects like Nemo exists too13:28
coyookay, what would be a finished and more complete version of mer? nemo?13:28
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Stskeepsfor example13:28
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StskeepsBostik: yeah, qt5/Qt/ is vestigal13:55
StskeepsBostik: just built qtdeclarative without issue13:55
Stskeepsthat certainly makes qt packaging easier13:56
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w00tlbt: do you have your copy of the script online? would like to see how you changed it14:20
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lbtw00t: doing travel arrangements for mon atm14:21
w00tlbt: ah, ok14:22
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Stskeeps21408 root      20   0 36860 5420  524 R   93  0.2  14515:45 emacs-nox14:35
Stskeepson be14:35
Stskeepscan i kill?14:35
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lbtok gone14:43
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Bostiktime to find food and possibly sit down for a pint14:57
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w00tlbt: btw, don't worry about the scripts.. going to go over them again with some help from phaeron16:57
phaeronlbt: if you have started working on them already, I'll refrain16:59
Stskeepslbt: good work, thank you!16:59
phaeronalready good work :)16:59
phaeronless for me to do :)17:00
Stskeepslbt: btw, can you access zathras and friends when you're abroad?17:00
w00tlbt: thanks17:00
w00tlbt: sorry we didn't get to it earlier :)17:00
lbtw00t: :)17:00
lbtdoing packaging and makefile now17:01
lbtexcept there is no makefile17:04
w00thow's the other scripts installed there?17:05
w00tthen that's the same, isn't it?17:06
w00tthought i was missing something on the makefile point :P17:06
mikhasStskeeps, how was your driving test BTW?17:08
mikhasyou would have enjoyed the automotive summit17:08
Stskeepsmikhas: passed theoretical second time around :)17:08
Stskeepsany interesting news from there, besides LF-yes-we-can-do-a-genivi-too?17:09
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mikhasStskeeps, quite a few actually, yes17:11
mikhasbut that's only from my perspective17:11
Stskeepshopefully "maliit on more targets" :)17:11
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mikhaswell, they just need to give me a Jaguar, as proto you know?17:12
mikhasStskeeps, I kept saying to myself: "Well, Mer does that, too. Probably better and more open than what you guys try to sell here."17:13
mikhasso perhaps "Jolla Automotive", in 1-2 years ;-)17:13
mikhasthe challenges are different (well, bigger)17:14
mikhasbut that's half the fun17:14
Stskeepsi'd be happy if it's not "Jolla" automotive, as it means that people 'get' it, it's a platform/ecosystem17:14
Stskeepsnot a company only thing17:14
mikhasright right17:14
* Stskeeps is having fun packaging qttools17:15
mikhasbut you'll be only ever be taken serious if a company puts its weight behind it17:15
Stskeepsyeah, or several small companies17:15
Bostikoddly enough, 'jolla' means a smallish boat, and the first non-automotive IVI targets are probably going to be yachts and modern sailboats17:15
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StskeepsBostik: i did wonder where yacht meego went to17:15
BostikStskeeps: you're outright twisted, "fun" indeed17:15
Stskeepsit was proposed17:15
StskeepsBostik: i started mer, that was crazy enough to last me for a while ;)17:16
mikhasquite a statement17:16
Bostikyeah, and all of this is merely random fallout? :)17:16
mikhasand look where it got you!17:16
StskeepsBostik: i can honestly say i didn't know of jolla when i started Mer :)17:17
Stskeepsso some of it is a leap of faith17:17
Stskeepsand thinking "i doubt these guys can't get it right this time, let's see if we can do it better.."17:17
Stskeepser, "can get it right"17:18
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Bostikdelightful arrogance, willful hubris and just plain bullheadedness - sure signs of a true hacker17:19
* Bostik glances in a mirror17:19
* Stskeeps looks forward to start ramping up his stack over the next two weeks17:20
Stskeepsalong with libhybris packaging for mer17:20
mikhasStskeeps, if you have specific questions about the automotive summit let me know (I am crappy with writing conference follow-up blogs)17:22
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crevetorWatching the keynote for the announcement of the very first i18:31
crevetorSteve starts by saying "this changes everything" and  it actually did18:31
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Stskeepsnext time around, not so much18:42
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w00tThis changes everything. Again.18:46
mikhascrevetor, would it have been such a hit if someone more modest had announced the iPhone? Without the "changes everything" bit?18:48
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mikhasthe iPhone never succeeded because of technical merits. even its usability is vastly hyped, I feel18:49
mikhasand if you favor bauhaus design for instance, you will simply hate the look&feel of most iPhone 1 apps18:49
mikhasit was a brilliant sales show, and it created that certain "want!" in people18:49
mikhasa demand that you cannot logically explain18:50
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lbthehe ... have you seen "Hello!" magazine?18:51
mikhasdont think so?18:51
lbtin general ... the iphone appeals to the same thing18:52
lbtit's fasionable and easy18:52
mikhasit never did the trick to me18:53
CosmoHillthe iphone 5, it's bigger than the iphone 418:53
CosmoHillno really, it's just bigger18:53
lbtwait.. there's an iphone 4 ?18:54
w00t4, 4S, and now 518:54
w00tget with the times :-D18:55
mikhas"I'll just wait for the iPhone 6."18:56
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crevetormikhas: I think so, it was revolutionary at the time : auto-rotate, multi-touch, etc. Stuff that we take for granted now.19:00
Stskeepscrevetor: did you manage to try out the proposed fix for blue btw?19:01
crevetorI'm not saying that it hasn't been over-hyped but there was innovation in there that did change the whole phone landscape19:02
Stskeepssure, it did catch everybody off guard19:02
Stskeepsthough it's not the last time that'll happen :)19:02
crevetorStskeeps: yes, well actually I validated that it came from the sensor orientation. I still have to fiddle with fcam to get it to work correctly19:03
crevetorStskeeps: that's what I was thinking, I wish I could be part of that next shift :)19:03
crevetorStskeeps: I did manage to get 12Mp captures with the right colors (but not through fcam yet)19:05
crevetoryes, pretty exciting19:06
crevetorI was thinking of adding something to my python script that would output a 5 or 8 MP picture from that 12MP capture using oversampling as the 808 does19:07
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crevetorIf I have time, I'll work on that this week end :)19:08
CosmoHillone day people will be holding ipads to there heads and using them as phones19:08
crevetorCosmoHill: it's already the case : galaxy note19:09
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mikhasCosmoHill, and then we've come full circle:
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crevetorAnd then there was this :
crevetor*This* changes everything again !19:29
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vgradeStskeeps, mikhas, Mer got a mention at the Automotive Summit19:51
vgradeOBS Light presentation19:52
mikhasvgrade, yeah19:52
mikhasI talked to Dominig19:52
mikhaswell, I met other folks who knew about Mer, too19:52
mikhasbusiness card search time …19:52
vgradehis demow was interesting19:53
Stskeepsrosalab we've met before, yeah19:53
mikhascouldnt see it sadly, was in other talk19:53
vgradeI was mainly in compliance presentations and only there Wed PM and for 1 presentation today19:55
mikhasthey have the Russian URL on business card, instead of
mikhasvgrade, we didnt meet, right?19:55
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mikhasI had a Maliit T-Shirt today even!19:55
mikhasnot that I was trying to sell Maliit to anyone (no really, I wasn't)19:56
vgradeI only popped in for "working on embedded linux sucks"19:56
vgradeI work at JLR next door so was a nice venue19:57
mikhaslucky you ;-)19:57
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vgradeI missed the keynotes yesterday, what was the view on the AGL announcement?19:58
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mikhasMonteVista people were pretty annoyed about it20:05
mikhaswell, big surprise20:05
Stskeepsi could imagine ubuntu/canonical wouldn't be too happy either20:06
mikhasthing is, it was announced by Jim Zemlin, so those who would understand the impact of it were probably half-asleep by then20:06
Stskeepsyeah, he does.. have that effect :)20:06
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Sage_Stskeeps: probably something we can drop from mer core and added to hw adaptations if those are really needed?20:07
marcosx86Stskeeps: I unpacked the Platform SDK on my VM, and when I ran mic, it blamed about extlinux command20:07
StskeepsSage_: ok20:07
mikhasvgrade, the echo I got: "there will never be just one flavour of Automotive-grade Linux"20:08
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Stskeepsmarcosx86: sudo zypper in syslinux-extlinux20:08
Stskeepsi think20:08
marcosx86I apt-get install extlinux before entering chroot20:08
marcosx86didnt worked20:09
Stskeepsmarcosx86: no, inside the sdk20:09
Stskeepsmikhas: i hope you didn't get a speech though20:09
mikhascan you redo that meme with Linux instead please?20:09
mikhasi think the McLaren keynote was impressive20:10
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mikhasand I liked the new nuances in GregKH's one20:10
mikhasI heard him 2.5 years ago @ FOSDEM, and it was fascinating (to me) to compare the two versions of the same talk20:11
marcosx86Error <creator>: Failed to find group 'Nokia N900 Proprietary Support' : No Group named Nokia N900 Proprietary Support exists20:11
mikhasHe finally noticed the impact of Intel in Kernel development =p20:11
Stskeepsmarcosx86: used and 'mic cr raw' ?20:12
Stskeepsinside sdk20:12
Sage_Stskeeps: did we still want xephyr for something?20:13
StskeepsSage_: probably not20:13
Sage_I recall some talk way back but can't recall why we wanted xephyr still20:13
mikhasbut but but … scratchbox!!20:14
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marcosx86no, used minimal-n900.ks20:15
marcosx86from wiki20:16
Stskeepslbt: could you fix the package group in that one?20:16
marcosx86Stskeeps: used ->
Stskeepsthere's an error in that one20:17
Stskeepsreplace with @Nokia N900 Support20:17
marcosx86already there20:17
marcosx86Nokia N900 Support and Proprietary20:18
Stskeepsyes, remove the Proprietary one20:18
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_ThomasStskeeps: We have made a how-to video for first time users of the cotton Candy :)20:37
_Thomasthings are happening ;)20:38
Stskeepscool :) congrats20:38
* Stskeeps looks forward to when we in Jolla get our product on market too20:38
Stskeepsheh, that's a long license20:40
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_ThomasIf you notice, I was about to do what I always do ;)20:40
crevetor_Thomas: is that a mini computer ?20:40
_Thomasand then I thought ... oh wait, I'm supposed to tell the users what to do now :D20:41
_Thomascrevetor: yes20:41
crevetor_Thomas: looks neat20:41
_Thomasit is ;)20:41
Stskeeps_Thomas: and the final configuration ended up being exynos and mali?20:41
crevetorhdmi powered, me like !20:41
_ThomasStskeeps: Jolla, that is the danish phone or something?20:41
_ThomasStskeeps: Yes, ofc20:41
_ThomasStskeeps: 4210 in this one20:42
Stskeeps_Thomas: nah, finnish -
Stskeeps_Thomas: but it has a danish streak in it by running Mer :)20:42
Stskeepscrevetor: usb powered, but hdmi output20:42
crevetorStskeeps: the video says hdmi powered20:42
_ThomasIt says USB powered20:43
crevetorlet me replay that.20:43
_Thomascrevetor: HDMI doesn't have enough power20:43
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_ThomasPlease tell me where it says hdmi power20:44
_Thomascrevetor: HDMI is only capable of 50 mA20:44
crevetor"using the screen to power it up"20:44
crevetoror maybe the screen's usb connector20:44
Stskeepsthat does sound awkward yeah20:44
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_Thomascrevetor: Yes20:45
crevetoryes it's not very clear20:45
_ThomasIt says connecting the usb to the screen20:45
Stskeeps_Thomas: looks like a great product - would the middleware for exporting the screen content over usb be available under ubuntu too?20:45
_ThomasStskeeps: Yes20:45
crevetor_Thomas: is the bootloader open ?20:46
_Thomascrevetor: uboot should be open enough ;)20:46
crevetor_Thomas: :)20:46
Stskeeps_Thomas: how about codec support?20:46
crevetor_Thomas: how much does it cost ?20:46
_Thomascrevetor: We have our mind set on develoeprs20:46
_Thomas199 usd20:46
_ThomasStskeeps: What do you mean about codec support?20:47
Stskeeps_Thomas: h264 and friends20:47
DocScrutinizer05_Thomas: open source uBoot doesn't meen non-tivoized device20:47
_ThomasStskeeps: Yes, we support most of them20:48
Stskeeps_Thomas: alright20:48
DocScrutinizer05ROMBL only loading (possibly open as sky) signed uBoot only20:48
_ThomasStskeeps: Beta1 image isn't good, but we will release something better in a week or so20:48
Stskeeps_Thomas: will probably grab one when i've moved into my apartment, provided my r-pi's won't meet my demands20:48
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: If we end up with a signed uboot some day, we will always support unsigned OS20:48
_ThomasNext week we will release source code for our Android build20:49
Stskeeps_Thomas: do you have spec sheet anywhere?20:49
Stskeepsprobably easier than to ask a lot of questions :)20:50
_ThomasStskeeps: Hit Technology Specs20:50
_ThomasShould help you out a bit20:50
_ThomasIf there's more, just ask :)20:50
Stskeepsthanks, i have some ideas where i'd perhaps like to use something like that as a companion device, so20:51
_Thomasdid you preorder?20:51
crevetorwow, pretty powerful given the size20:51
_Thomascrevetor: Yes, that's the neat thing :)20:52
Stskeeps_Thomas: i honestly don't recall if i did, if i had to pay, probably not :)20:52
_ThomasStskeeps: No, you didn't have to pay to sign up for pre-order20:52
* Stskeeps had a rather busy last months :)20:52
* Stskeeps checks20:52
crevetor_Thomas: when does it ship ?20:52
Stskeepswhere would i preorder?20:52
_ThomasStskeeps: If you did preorder, it was placed on cstick.com20:53
DocScrutinizer05– TrustZone extensions   -- :-((20:53
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: Yes, what's wrong with that?20:53
DocScrutinizer05honestly I wouldn't advertise that20:53
_ThomasIt doesn't say anything about them being enabled20:53
Stskeepswhat arm chip doesn't have that nowadays..20:53
_ThomasAll ARM chips have TZ today, more or less20:53
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DocScrutinizer05sure, exactly a good reason to not even mention it20:54
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_ThomasThat is the reason why it is needed20:54
_ThomasIt's still a while before everyone take it for granted, when it's the business/marketing guys talking20:54
DocScrutinizer05or rather, like "alas it has TZ like every other contemporary Cortex ARM. But at least we didn't enable it in ROMBL"20:55
StskeepsDocScrutinizer05: can you keep your security framework rants out of here please? we all know your opinion on them by now :)20:55
DocScrutinizer05trustzone my ass20:55
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: It will be very clear that we are going to be open in the coming days, with what we are going to publish of material20:55
Stskeeps_Thomas: hmm, what's difference between business and private shop, out of curiousity?20:56
_ThomasStskeeps: Mostly EULA20:56
DocScrutinizer05you can publish all you want on sourcecode - won't diable engaged TZ "open mode"20:56
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: You have to enable TZ somewhere20:56
DocScrutinizer05while openmode should be called neutered mode20:56
_ThomasAnd as long as all is on the microSD card, I don't see how we can force anyone anything20:56
_ThomasWe are always free to make versions of our binary os distros that enable tz and premium content, but nobody will be force to use anything like that20:57
DocScrutinizer05if the uBoot (or your flavour thereof) will not boot from uSD, the ROMBL won't boot any bootloader even from MMC bus 020:57
_Thomas(and I'm not saying that we will go down the TZ path)20:57
DocScrutinizer05at least no unsigned one20:58
_ThomasOur device boots from uSD (uboot is on USB)20:58
_Thomas(not USB)20:58
DocScrutinizer05ooh, so there's already a signed uBoot? fine then20:59
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DocScrutinizer05you can't retract that one20:59
_ThomasNo, did I say that?20:59
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DocScrutinizer05I thought you said20:59
_ThomasNothing is signed20:59
_ThomasAs it is now20:59
_ThomasIt's completely open20:59
_Thomasand all bootloader, except the rombl in the ap is on the uSD card20:59
DocScrutinizer05hmm, afaik ROMBL wants signature on 2nd BL, otherwise won't start it21:00
_ThomasUnless you have a special key set in the AP, that signature is open for everyone21:00
_ThomasApplication Processor21:00
_ThomasExynos 4210, for instance21:01
DocScrutinizer05oh, you mean EFUSE?21:01
DocScrutinizer05sure, might be21:01
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DocScrutinizer05nice hw then :-)21:01
_ThomasYes, we have been making this with develoeprs in mind all along21:02
_Thomasno point in closing it down then21:02
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_ThomasSome of us are developers by heart, so we know what we should / shouldn't do :)21:02
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CosmoHillwhat did I just miss?21:03
_ThomasThere are things we won't be able to open due to license agreements (OpenGL-drivers, for instance), but we will strive to open what we can21:03
_ThomasAnd we will support OpenGLES on more than just Android21:04
_ThomasWhich is a bit rare, as far as I understand things21:04
_Thomas(not much support for Linux distros in this mobile world)21:04
Stskeeps_Thomas: are you licensing the virtualization client(s) to companies that want to make solutions on for example mobile phones with it? think access your desktop on the stick21:04
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Stskeepsvirtualization being the display streaming21:04
_ThomasStskeeps: It is a possibility, yes21:05
Stskeepsor rather, where would one contact for business propositions :)21:05
_ThomasYou can contact me, and I'll make the connections in the office ;)21:05
Stskeepsi think it's bedtime for now though, bbl21:05
_Thomasaround midnight in .fi right?21:06
DocScrutinizer05_Thomas: kudos21:06
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[ol]_Thomas: Does this stick's WiFi interface support AP and IBSS modes?21:11
DocScrutinizer05_Thomas: maybe I'm already too tired, but >>– USB 2.0 male form factor for power and connection to devices that supports USB mass storage<< kinda is sounding ambiguous to my ears21:11
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DocScrutinizer05is this a MassStorage device, or will it allow memstick to get plugged into it? IOW host or gadget?21:11
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: If you stick the device into your computer, it will look like an mass storage device in the computer (using gadget drivers)21:12
_ThomasAnd, we also have a micro USB port on the side, where you can connect any usb device, to the cotton candy21:12
_ThomasIncluding mass storage devices21:12
DocScrutinizer05so it's both, even concurrently21:12
DocScrutinizer05that's the real thing. Forget OTG21:13
_ThomasWe are using OTG for our virtualization stuff21:16
DocScrutinizer05umm, please elaborate21:17
_ThomasIf you see the video I pasted, you see that we put the device into a usb port on the mac, and get the screen on the mac with what's going on on the device?21:18
_Thomasand use the mouse/keyboard on the mac to control the device21:18
_ThomasThe mac just thinks this is another usb mass storage device (because we identify us as Mass Storage through OTG)21:19
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, that's not OTG aiui21:19
_ThomasYes, because we are a device in this sense21:19
DocScrutinizer05OTG means HNP, switching A and B role21:19
_ThomasOTG is both host and device21:19
DocScrutinizer05either, or. Aka A or B21:20
_Thomasour host port is full usb host, not just "simple otg", and that is the micro usb-port21:20
DocScrutinizer05so the micro is actually a micro-AB receptacle?21:20
_ThomasThe micro is only usb host21:21
_Thomasthe normal usb is usb device only21:21
DocScrutinizer05hmm, so neither is OTG. And actually nobody needs OTG21:21
DocScrutinizer05OTG is not hostmode21:22
_ThomasThe normal usb is usb device, because we make it so with the OTG controller inside the exynos21:22
_ThomasIf that made things more clear?21:23
DocScrutinizer05yeah, you can set the (presumably mentographics MUSB-HDRC) OTG controller to hostmode-only21:23
_ThomasI realise that this is hard to explain in writing :)21:23 hardware (wiring)21:24
_ThomasOur normal usb port is wired as a device21:24
DocScrutinizer05(ID pin grounded)21:24
_Thomasand the micro usb port is connected to the usb host controller on the exynos (which can be nothing else)21:25
DocScrutinizer05I know this ARM USB a lil bit21:25
DocScrutinizer05(made h-e-n on N900, the forced-fake-hostmode on device-only micro-b)21:26
DocScrutinizer05only works on musb-hdrc controller (yeah I know the c controller is a pleyonasm)21:27
DocScrutinizer05OTG however is the dualism (or call it schizphrenia ;-P) in that controller, the property to switch between host and gadget mode21:30
DocScrutinizer05on the fly, with HNP and similar cruft21:31
DocScrutinizer05nobody needs that21:31
DocScrutinizer05actually I haven't hear of any real-life usecase yet, fo rOTG21:32
_Thomasi think some cameras are using it21:32
_Thomasto be a usb device when you connect to computer, but on the same time be able to have a mass storage device on the same usb port21:33
_Thomas(that you can then dump images too)21:33
DocScrutinizer05that's why I said, 2 decent USB ports, one host, one gadget, are much bigger than a friggin OTG port21:33
DocScrutinizer05_Thomas: indeed, sounds like a valid usecase21:33
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_ThomasThat's almost the only one I can think of, tho21:33
DocScrutinizer05well, on Openmoko Freerunner, we had no headache to switch between host and gadget mode on mere SW. And for that tere are actually some usecases, see h-e-n21:35
DocScrutinizer05or N810 which did the same21:35
DocScrutinizer05_Thomas: anyway, extremely nice specs. If it's affordable, it will fly I'm sure21:36
_Thomas199 USD seems to be acceptable by many21:36
_ThomasSome are comparing it to the r-pi, saying it's too expensive, tho21:37
_Thomasbut I have even heard people thinking it's cheap, at 199 usd, so...21:37
_ThomasI guess sales will tell, really21:37
DocScrutinizer05I'd think it's reasonably priced21:37
DocScrutinizer05though, if it had a ethernet port too... ;-)21:39
_ThomasYou can easily add one usb ethernet adapter ;)21:39
DocScrutinizer05I know :-)21:39
_Thomasbut, yeah, it was under consideration21:39
_Thomasbut space was an issue21:39
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* DocScrutinizer05 just wonders what weird USB adapter cables you'll have to ship with it, to connect storage gadgets to a micro-F-USB21:41
DocScrutinizer05standard-F-USB <-> micro-M-USB21:42
_ThomasWe have several weird usb cables in our labs ;)21:42
DocScrutinizer05USB-cert will kill you when they get a hold of you XP21:43
_ThomasWe already are certified :)21:44
_Thomasor, wait, we pay for the logo and vendor id21:44
_Thomaswe didn't to do the cert yet21:44
_ThomasWe decided to wait, more important ones like ce and fcc ;)21:45
DocScrutinizer05beware, I heard you won't get signed Windows drivers without USB-cert21:45
_ThomasWe won't get anything windows, they have set some hardware requirements21:46
_Thomas5 buttons and a screen, for instance21:46
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DocScrutinizer05I ore thought of drivers for mass storage support21:47
DocScrutinizer05you probably can fake any other existing memory stick for that though21:48
_ThomasWe don't need special drivers for our device21:48
_Thomasit works with standard windows drivers21:48
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what I meant21:48
DocScrutinizer05though, how do you forward all that HID stuff to it then?21:49
DocScrutinizer05I doubt that's mass storage ;-)21:51
DocScrutinizer05ok, you said "...on a Mac..."21:51
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DocScrutinizer05otoh who cares about M$-signed drivers, after once it got installed by nodding off the "Warning!!! Non-signed driver! danger!" nonsense ;-)21:53
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_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: All the Mac/Windows see is a mass storage device21:56
_ThomasDocScrutinizer05: the rest is in our virtualization protocol21:56
_Thomas(on top of mass storage)21:56
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DocScrutinizer05wow, nifty21:56
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