Thursday, 2012-08-23

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lbtJohnJ_: there's very little ARM-specific code in Mer00:22
lbtmostly it's higher level and cross-compiled to run on ARM00:23
JohnJ_lbt: I see, I was pointed here as a cool project to see ARM use, been searching through your packages and just find C code00:24
lbtwell, we do target multiple ARM devices00:24
JohnJ_do you know any OS project where I could find ARM-specific code?00:24
lbtit's just that very little real code is written in assembler anywhere00:24
lbtgcc ?00:24
lbtthe kernel of course00:25
JohnJ_I understand, it then cross-compiles to the different ARMs, x8600:25
lbtand parts of glibx00:25
JohnJ_by anywhere you mean anywhere in mer, or anywhere in mobile dev?00:26
lbtthe latter00:26
lbtmost of the time code written in C and run through an optimising compiler is better than asm anyway00:26
lbtwhat you really need to learn is things like the ABI issues, how the thumb instruction sets work, hardfp vs softfp00:27
lbtMer is a good place for that kind of thing00:28
lbtanyhow... very very late here so I'm off to bed. Feel free to ask questions and I'm sure people will answer when they're awake (we're mainly EU00:29
JohnJ_oh enjoyed so much crunching asm in college, thought these days there would be an hight request for ARM00:30
JohnJ_guess not00:30
JohnJ_tks for the answer00:31
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lbtJohnJ_: maybe
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JohnJ_lbt: gonna check it00:39
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daraiHello, I'm just a visitor stopping by to check on the status of Mer.01:29
daraiIt's good to see that it's up and going01:29
daraiWas a bit concerned, hearing about the news about Tizen/Bada and the such01:30
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ljpyay! I get an n90003:55
timophit's still a very nice hackable gadget (i have two :p)03:56
* ShadowJK has 3, as nothing better has come out yet04:05
SageShadowJK: n950? ;)04:15
Sageon my n950 fn (?) key seems to be failing it makes bad sound already when pressed. :/04:17
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ShadowJKN950 can't be obtained, and as a daily device has same 3 biggest issues as N9 :)04:19
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ShadowJKlike, harm, aegis, and msf04:20
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SageStskeeps: what is the status of mer prerelease btw. Good to go or some fixes still needed?04:29
StskeepsSage: did we try to boot n900/n950 yet?04:30
StskeepsSage: i was waiting to hear if there were any ofono changes04:30
SageStskeeps: ofono is fixed with -latest already on n95004:30
Sagewas adaptation side fix04:30
Sageor at least I can make calls now04:30
SageI have booted only vm so far04:32
Sageupdating my n950 soon with the -next though04:33
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Stskeepslet's boot n900 and n950 soon and let's say that's OK?04:34
Stskeepsdo we have images with latest-latest?04:34
Sagewe don't have images with latest latest atm.04:35
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Stskeepscan we make that?04:37
Sagequite high expectations this time in the morning ;)04:38
* Sage tries to find his microsd card04:39
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Sagepartially no images for the latest -latest is in purpose as I wanted to really see how the update works and what parts of the guides needs updating.04:40
Stskeepswell, i just want to have images made for -next so we can QA it and not have aard or others shout at us ;)04:41
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* Sage ponders what Stskeeps meant with that -next images are done already04:43
Stskeepsokay, i need coffee04:43
Stskeepslong story short: we need to QA n900 and n950 for -next04:43
Sagefigured out that much :D04:43
Stskeepsi've tested x8604:43
Sagenot cool, I have no idea where my microsd card is04:47
Sageor n900 battery even :P04:47
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Stskeepswell, if you do n950 i can do n90004:49
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Sagefound \o/ I'll do n900 :)04:50
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Sagemy n950 is doing other tests atm. thus I prefer n900 atm.04:52
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StskeepsSage: did you solve your prelink issue yet?04:57
Sageno idea what is causing that :/04:57
Stskeepswe should move to IMG based builds anyway04:57
Stskeepsreplicatable build setups04:58
Sagemaybe it is a bug in my host kernel or something that prelink thingy04:59
SageIt doesn't happen always but quite often now04:59
* Stskeeps writes image to n905:02
Sageboots n900 and his laptop05:02
Sagen900 boots fine and network and ntp works as well ;)05:06
* Stskeeps ponders if he needs a new moslo05:07
StskeepsSage: can you do ls -al /dev/tty* for me on n900?05:14
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Stskeepsand tell me what user/grup they have05:14
Sageeasier to pastie :)05:15
Sagetty1 is the most interested one I guess :)05:16
Stskeepsok, more info then05:16
Stskeepscat /etc/group | grep video05:16
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Sageadded in .ks file05:17
Stskeepsok, good05:18
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vgradelbt \o05:27
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Stskeepsgood morning situ05:34
situI was able to commit my changes on server.05:35
situRight now I am at office so won't be able to work on it.05:35
Stskeepssure, work first :)05:35
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SageStskeeps: n900 seems to be working fine05:43
* Sage puts sim to his n900 to test the phone functionality05:45
SageStskeeps: on n900 the tty is a problem at times btw.05:45
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Sagewe should probably fix that already in this release05:45
Sageon some boots the tty and Xorg are up at the same time and I can see terminal flickering and I can type to the terminal as well ;)05:46
Stskeepsworking on it05:46
Sagefirst boot was fine second boot is terrible because that problem05:46
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Stskeepswho here is interested in system level work, qt5, wayland, mer with busybox, wayland, good development environments?05:58
Stskeepser, double wayland.. too little coffee05:59
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SageStskeeps: busybox o/06:00
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SageStskeeps: I can confirm the tty fix (removal of the getty@tty1 file) on n900 fixes the issue06:01
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Ionakkaqt5 absolutely, wayland's interesting too06:02
Ionakkai would guess that it's hard to find someone _not_ interested in good dev envs ;)06:02
Bostikqt5 yes, wayland yes, good devkits yes, busybox... not so much06:02
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Stskeepsmy aim is to include a busybox option for mer, and start productizing a bit06:03
Stskeepsie, minimal images, start using systemd user sessions with wayland, etc06:03
Stskeepsdevelop-able in virtualbox with llvmpipe sw rendering06:03
Stskeepsthen over time slap it on top of various devices like r-pi, the libhybris work, etc06:05
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Stskeepsmorn Andy80 :)06:13
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sonachwayland and busybox, yes, my interests ! but ability is not enough to develop, can do test work first :P06:15
sonachStskeeps: how is the mer running on Gingerbread hw adaption for MIPS stuff going? hi3716C hasn't arrived yes, so if the MIPS stuff is OK, I can try it on BCM7231,06:17
Stskeepssonach: not focused that much on that part yet06:18
Stskeepsgot some issues i need to solve on arm first06:18
sonachStskeeps: OK, no hurry. then I can wait hi3716C and test the ARM version,06:18
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Stskeepsgood morning phaeron06:47
phaeronStskeeps: morning :)06:47
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Stskeepsmorn kallela, mikhas06:55
kallelagood morning06:58
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veskuhlbt: is there a way to change email in nemo/mer bugzilla? I've got my old nokia mail there, and can't use it anymore obviously.07:09
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Sageiekku: ^ can you change veskuh's e-mail?07:14
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iekkuSage, i will try07:28
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ltrvsgomorron all :) any ETA for the build system to be up again?07:28
Stskeepswe're probably doing a full release today and then start merging/building07:30
Stskeepsdepends :)07:30
ltrvsStskeeps: ok. just wanted to know, no rush ;)07:31
iekkuSage, solved07:32
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SageStskeeps: mer release right? :)07:39
Stskeepsmorn lbt07:52
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Stskeepsmdfe_: has anybody in KDE community investigated systemd user sessions yet?08:30
mdfe_Stskeeps: good morning08:34
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mdfe_how does it work?08:34
mdfe_notmart: ping08:35
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Stskeepswell, quite easily really08:35
Stskeeps gets you a xterm08:36
Stskeepsno uxlaunch included08:36
notmartmdfe_: pong08:36
mdfe_notmart: Stskeeps is asking if we have investigated systemd user sessions yet08:37
mdfe_Stskeeps: uxlaunch? Whats about the xserver?08:37
Stskeepsmdfe_: handled by xorg-launch-helper which is really tiny, just another systemd user service08:38
notmartmdfe_: no, not really08:38
Stskeepsit won't be mandatory in mer, but a possibility08:38
mdfe_whats the goal?08:38
Stskeepsgoal is much faster bootup, saner inter-dependencies between user processes08:39
Stskeepsfast shutdown of session08:39
Stskeepschanging targets, perhaps even apps as systemd services, better cgroup usage, etc08:39
notmartwhat needs to be done? i guessjust a bunch of service files somewhere?08:39
Stskeepsyeah, probably08:39
Stskeepsit replaces /etc/xdg/autostart and /usr/share/xsession08:39
mdfe_we ohne have to create a own systemd rule instad using uxlaunch?08:39
notmartst the moment we use a little app that handles dependencies in a similar way to systemd08:39
notmarteventually using systemd would mean a thing less to maintain08:40
Stskeepsjust letting you know this is being prepped for in mer, so people can choose that option too08:41
mdfe_it would be very nice if we are not forced into this area atm08:42
Stskeepsit's not in any way forced08:42
Stskeepsjust letting you know of future possibilities08:43
Stskeepsit has nice things like starting up daemons as user -before- xorg, too08:43
Stskeepsie, things that only need dbus08:43
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mdfe_whats is about debugging capabilities of start-up sequences in systemd?08:45
mdfe_imho its really hard in case something is going wrong08:46
Stskeepswell, you can ask it to show you even a graph or time spent08:46
Stskeepsor see what services failed to launch08:46
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mdfe_if you get a shell08:46
Stskeepsright, well, you can always possibly kick into an emergency mode08:47
mdfe_this sounds interesting, never heard about08:47
Stskeepsi mean, if it notices services fail, it can switch to different target08:47
notmartyeah, i think is not something for pa3, but is definitely something to look into08:49
notmarteven for the desktop, since there is used a script that probably some people here are younger than that :p08:50
Stskeepsand if you guys are interested in wayland/qt5, i'm slowly starting a project to do mer+wayland+busybox+qml compositor to pave the way for even more interesting systems in future08:51
Stskeepsto for example put on top of traditionally for android hw08:52
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notmartyeah, that's in the target as well, but a complete qt5 port will take a long time08:52
Stskeepshello fomg-optimize08:53
sroedalStskeeps: in what shape does the android baselayer provide EGL / GL drivers?08:53
sroedalnotmart: a qt5 port to where?08:53
Stskeepssroedal: i presume you saw my libhybris demo?08:53
sroedalStskeeps: now I see it :)08:54
Stskeepsthe idea is to kinda combo the work pq's been working on and getting wayland working on top, perhaps first with qtwayland / qml compositor08:54
Stskeepsas the methods for sharing buffers are already by standard in android gpu drivers08:55
sroedalStskeeps: what kind of hardware would you recommend for playing with this stuff?08:55
Stskeepssroedal: it's a bit rough at the moment, i myself use touchpad with qualcomm, chickencutlass is using JB with galaxy nexus, pq's on ICS with galaxy nexus08:56
Stskeepsthe idea is to have community help iron it out and get it working08:56
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notmartsroedal: i was talking about a qt5 port of complete kde (and thus plasma active too)08:57
notmartthat's on the way but of course quite slowly ;)08:57
Stskeepssroedal: next step at the moment for me is to get qmlscene going08:57
Stskeepssroedal: with eglfs08:57
sroedalStskeeps: sounds good, you could create a custom device profile for that, with custom eglfshooks08:58
Stskeepssroedal: :nod:08:58
sroedalnotmart: right :)08:58
Stskeepssroedal: the magic is that we provide a / which bridges to the android GPU drivers, so hopefully not much mods are needed08:59
sroedalStskeeps: yep08:59
sroedaldo the Android GPU drivers in addition to buffer to texture abstractions also provide direct page flipping of buffers? would be needed for direct rendering of wayland clients09:00
Stskeepsi -think- i've seen that around09:01
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fomg-optimizeHi there! Just a quick question... Does mer use x window system? What kind of x server does it make use of?09:01
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Stskeepsfomg-optimize: but wayland and others are in progress too09:02
fomg-optimizeStskeeps: ah, thank you for the quick answer!09:03
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pqStskeeps, I'm not sure how much of my wayland-on-android work so far is reusable with the hybris approach, if any. It was almost all just fighting the Android, which hybris fortunately gets rid of.09:12
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Stskeepspq: we'll see09:13
sledgesmorning all!09:14
Stskeepsmorn sledges09:14
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sledgesahh the rain is coming :(09:15
sledgesit is going to rain during the whole long bank holiday weekend!09:16
sledgesEngland :)09:16
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VDVsxvery shity weather in .fi as well, summer is over it seems :P09:21
sledgeswhat summer?09:23
VDVsxI still remember last years summer, was in a Thursday :D09:23
savaaZtypical finnish "summer" around 3310009:25
sledgessounds like you're on about a polar day :)09:34
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pqStskeeps, what was the original version of the gingerbread linker you imported into libhybris? Was it really the one in your initial commit?11:17
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pqStskeeps, I can't seem to find the identical linker.c from bionic gingerbread branches11:19
pqjust wanted to see what you changed11:20
Stskeepsi'll check sha hashes if you want11:20
pqthat would be cool11:20
pqI assume you didn't touch the ics nor jb code, so I would need to do similar changes in ics?11:21
Stskeepsi couldn't test it11:21
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pqactually what got me into this, was trying to find out how you are sure to load the right one of bionic vs. glibc libc et al.?11:24
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pqStskeeps, test_egl ends up with a segfault , but I'm not surprised since that's using the gingerbread libhybris, when /system is ics.11:34
Stskeepsenable LINKER_DEBUG and change the PRINTF(2, in linker_debug to -111:35
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Stskeepsand get some debugging on11:35
pqok, got a lot more now.11:39
pqStskeeps, and your ics/linker.c is indentical to AOSP one, as I expected, but the gingerbread is not, or I couldn't find the right version.11:40
Stskeepsmoment, having pizza :)11:41
pqStskeeps, where do you differentiate whether your lib search comes up it bionic or glibc libs?11:41
Stskeepspq: load paths11:42
Stskeepspq: it has hardcoded /system/lib and /vendor/lib already in android11:42
pqhm, I need look harder...11:42
Stskeepsfor dlopen we need a full path anyway11:42
faenilStskeeps, what topping? :)11:43
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pqahha, apparently LD_LIBRARY_PATH would be trouble, i.e., need to be renamed11:48
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pqaah, it may crash because of an unimplemented pthread symbol, I guess11:59
Stskeepsalso possible12:00
Stskeepsgdb is handy12:01
pqyeah, I need to switch to a better chroot... though I have other things to do before I actually start hacking on libhybris12:06
Stskeepsalone knowing there's pthread symbols we don't handle is a good start12:07
pqhaha, yeah I just understood that piece of your code, providing a "subtle" hint that this is unimplemented :-D and gdb would even tell me which symbol it is.12:08
Stskeepsthat is another fun issue we'll have to handle12:10
Stskeepshow to make debugging and stack traces easier12:10
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pqstarting with full paths in the debug output would be a start, so one sees it is using the right lib12:11
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ChickenCutlassStskeeps: hi12:58
ovasyurastskeeps:Hi. How can I create sb2 target for N900? Platform_SDK_and_SB2#Installation describes the process for N950. But the same approach can not be used for N900 because n900 images don't contain tar.bz2 files.13:00
Stskeepslo ChickenCutlass13:00
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: I have made progress with libhybris.  and the test program works.  I can also almost get the egl test working but is fails to create a surface.13:00
Stskeepsovasyura: shouldn't matter13:00
ovasyuraShould I use nemo-handset-armv7hl-n900-0.20120614.1.NEMO.2012-08-05.2.ks  file?13:00
StskeepsChickenCutlass: progress \o/13:01
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: I think in order to create a surface you need to ask surfaceflinger for a buffer.13:01
Stskeepsovasyura: just use the n950 one13:01
StskeepsChickenCutlass: nop13:01
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: hmm13:01
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: did you have to kill SF?13:01
ovasyurastskeeps: for N900 device?13:01
StskeepsChickenCutlass: i've never run sf13:01
Stskeepsovasyura: yeah, it doesn't matter in practice13:01
StskeepsChickenCutlass: then again, i dont do it in a chroot, i dont even have android running13:02
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ChickenCutlassI see13:02
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: so to let you know -- there is no difference in JB vs gingerbread13:02
StskeepsChickenCutlass: isn't there a hardcoded "32" in the test_egl ?13:02
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: my problem was hard float13:02
Stskeepsor 2413:02
StskeepsChickenCutlass: alright13:02
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StskeepsChickenCutlass: try to switch 32 to what bpp the screen /framebuffer has13:05
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: ok13:05
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: in the attrs?13:05
ovasyurastskeeps: Thank you. I will try.  Does it mean that I can install 950 image on my n900 device?13:05
Stskeepsovasyura: no, there's subtle differences13:05
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ChickenCutlassStskeeps: no luck.  So close13:08
StskeepsChickenCutlass: same as in /sys/class/graphics/fb0 ?13:09
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: ?13:09
Stskeepsthere's a bpp in /sys, so13:10
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: right 32, that is what I am using.13:11
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: so I get this in the device log.
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: right before I request the surface13:12
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pqChickenCutlass, yes, surfaceflinger will prevent other framebuffer apps from running, and the EGL for framebuffer can be used only by one at a time.13:16
Sagelbt: have a moment to talk?13:16
ChickenCutlasspq: right.  I made sure I do not hveit running13:17
StskeepsChickenCutlass: strace?13:19
pqChickenCutlass, fwiw, this works on ICS:
ChickenCutlasspq: ok13:19
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: I will try that next13:19
pqyou could try to steal the parameters from that13:19
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lbtStskeeps: I appear to have stolen the CI OBS workers13:19
Stskeepslbt: ..13:19
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lbtSage: sec13:19
pqChickenCutlass, and this gets me the nativewindow to use with EGL:
ChickenCutlasspq: ah, thanks13:21
StskeepsChickenCutlass: there is some weird interaction when not using libEGL wrapper at times13:21
pqChickenCutlass, oh yeah, the weston code assumes you are using the android wrapper-libEGL, not the hw libs directly.13:21
StskeepsChickenCutlass: the goal is being able to avoid the wrapper libEGL13:22
Stskeepsie, android-wrapper13:22
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: I see13:22
Stskeepsbecause it does really weird TLS crap13:22
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pqalso, less android, the better :-)13:23
ChickenCutlasspq: so you think I need to pass the fb window to the create surface13:24
pqChickenCutlass, yes, I can't see how else it would work.13:24
ChickenCutlasspq: ok I get it13:25
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pqandroid::FramebufferNativeWindow() sets up flipchains and whatnot, IIRC13:25
pqbut, it is also very tied to the android-wrapper-libEGL13:25
pqI hope we get rid of most or all of the C++ hell, when we start using the hw libs directly13:26
ChickenCutlasspq: so I guess I need a shim in libhybris for those calls?13:26
mike7b4_workHi all, why isnt mer SDK include rpmbuild? Or is there something else to use when create RPM:s ?13:26
pqChickenCutlass, I guess... you're further in it than me13:26
ChickenCutlasspq: ah ok13:27
pqChickenCutlass, the code I linker you to, is the Weston (Wayland server) backend that can run on real Android, without surfaceflinger.13:29
ChickenCutlasspq: right ok13:29
pqactually the android system tree has some small test apps, too13:30
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SageStskeeps: was there still something to inspect with the upcoming mer next?13:31
pqChickenCutlass, in frameworks/base/opengl/tests/ the ones that call android_createDisplaySurface()13:32
ChickenCutlasspq: awesome13:32
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pqChickenCutlass, and that functions is defined in frameworks/base/libs/ui/FramebufferNativeWindow.cpp and from there, it starts to get messy, so for quick tests, using that of the equivalent like in weston is preferrable13:34
ChickenCutlasspq: right13:34
pq*that or the equivalent13:34
Stskeepsthe good news is that all those parts are oss and we can tamper with them as much as we want13:39
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: right, unlike the GL drivers themselves.13:39
ChickenCutlassStskeeps: if they were open13:39
ChickenCutlasswe could just re-compile against glibc13:40
Stskeepsi wish, but .. same situation on glibc-gles drivers13:40
StskeepsSage:,786 pls to review13:41
Sagelooks good13:43
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Stskeepslbt: will i have my workers back?13:45
lbtStskeeps: done13:46
Stskeepslbt: ok13:47
lbta while back13:47
lbtSage: ok now13:47
Stskeepslbt: i need either a full release or prerelease yet, then we're stable13:47
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lbtStskeeps: just say when13:49
lbt(and what)13:49
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Sagelbt: well I was just thinking about the mer tools project content. and that it would be nice if mer tools releases would be in form of <mer-release>-<mer-tools-release, date?> or so13:57
Sageif vendor wants to use packages from tools with mer release vendor needs to know exactly which mer core release was the tools build against to be sure that there is no e.g. soname change problems13:58
Stskeepslbt: also, when would you like to migrate CI FE/BE, if at all?13:59
lbtStskeeps: when I've finished this bit of work14:00
lbtSage: I'm tempted to document that in the release notes rather than have a huge value14:00
lbtThe SDK also includes a Mer release too14:00
Sagelbt: well, SDK contains Mer + Mer:Tools, Nemo would like to contains Mer + Mer:tool + Nemo14:01
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Sageor well, would be best if we could maintain same packges.14:02
lbtyes - I'm just worried about the names14:02
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Sagelbt: well the sdk version could still be 6.02 it would just contain Mer relesae 0.20120719.1 and Tools 0.20120719.1_0.20120614.1 or what ever14:03
lbtit's actually Tools which is 6.0.214:04
Sage7g 2514:04
lbtSDK is Mer+Tools14:04
lbtlet me sort out this deployment stuff first14:04
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pqStskeeps, btw. you have noticed that android has a hardcoded dedicated TLS slot for openGL, right?14:44
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Stskeepspq, yes14:49
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regisgI want to by a tablet... is Dell Nexus 7 tablet a good one for installing mer project ?16:15
regisgIs there any attempt to bild mer image on it ?16:15
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kulveI would also be interested to know if somebody is working on getting Mer to it16:19
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kulvetechicly I think it should be possible16:23
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regisgOk, thanks16:30
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Stskeepsmorn lpotter :)19:55
lpotterhacked nemo on my n900. heh :)19:57
Stskeepsit's somewhat amazing how much of a handset stack is actually there.. considering how things were before19:57
Stskeepsof course, not as impressive as qtopia :P19:58
lpotterof course!20:02
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* Stskeeps learns more things about android EGL than he wanted to20:05
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Stskeepswell, the good news about libhybris and TLS is that there's actually a lot of padding in the pthread structure.21:01
Stskeeps24 void pointers worth21:01
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lbtStskeeps: what happened to the release?21:42
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CosmoHillnight night22:16
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