Friday, 2012-08-17

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tsiironegood morning05:12
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curiositygood morning!05:32
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Stskeepsmorn tukem05:45
Stskeepstukem: we also have #nemomobile which is ~handset ui05:46
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tukemI was just writing to Sage about policy framework05:49
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tukemPublic development appears to be as bad it was earlier05:50
Stskeepswell, or completely dead05:51
tukemI noticed you had some bug about some missing configurations for N95005:51
tukemThey just develop internally and then release every now and then05:52
dm8tbrah, yes, because that has always worked so well05:53
tukemand they don't do any announcement so you can't even know if it is supposed to be stable05:53
tukemI'm just trying to think what area I could help with. Policy framework is something I have some experience in but that project is not very encouraging05:58
Stskeepswell, the situation with policy framework looks a bit awkward atm05:58
Stskeepscamera not working, some other issues too05:58
Stskeepsohmd crashes in boardname..05:59
tukemand the great thing it crashes pretty silently06:00
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Stskeepstukem: happen to have a n900 still?06:04
Stskeepsyou're welcome to try and install the latest image and see how we've developed the thing :) looks much prettier now06:05
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tukemI need to get a memory card and take a look06:08
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Stskeepsmorn Andy80, stefan_schmidt_w06:20
stefan_schmidt_whi ya Stskeeps06:21
Andy80Stskeeps, good morning :)06:21
* stefan_schmidt_w will go on vacation later today :)06:21
stefan_schmidt_wLookign forward to it06:21
Stskeepsi wish i had vacation, otoh, i did have 3-4 months off work..06:21
stefan_schmidt_wStskeeps: I had this as well before moving here. :)06:22
dm8tbryou had the chance to use it wisely, but nooo you had to waste it on this open source stuff. that never works out. ;)06:22
w00tyeah, sheesh06:23
w00twho'd be doing this open source stuff?06:23
stefan_schmidt_wdm8tbr: yeah, all this homebrew software. From software hippies.06:23
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stefan_schmidt_wBetter buy some real Industrial Grade (TM) software06:24
dm8tbrit's the downfall of honest commercial software making corporations! destroying jobs! horrible!06:24
stefan_schmidt_ww00t: No idea, maybe some people still hanging out at Woodstock?06:24
stefan_schmidt_wdm8tbr: I even had to move countries to work for one of the tier 5 hardware manufactures to work on it06:25
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lpotternot software hippies. software punks06:38
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stefan_schmidt_wlpotter: even more distinguishing. They want to destroy every commercial software06:39
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lpotterhippies are too apathetic06:40
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Paimenwaiting for iekku to show up, because someone mentioned punk06:43
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iekkushould i add "punk" to my hilights :P06:44
Paimenwell I have hippie06:45
w00tiekku: add it to your CV06:45
w00t"software punk"06:45
timophhardcore software punk06:47
iekkui prefer "nerd punk"06:48
iekkubut i keep telling people that i'm not nerd...06:50
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iekkunerdcore punk?07:06
lpotterI dont think nerd punk is possible07:20
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Stskeepsgood morning Ionakka07:23
IonakkaStskeeps: morning \o/07:23
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* X-Fade plays Monkey Island theme07:24
iekkulpotter, one of my friends has tattoo in his fingers and pink mohawk07:28
iekkulpotter, text in fingers: 'punx' 'unix'07:29
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X-FadeLet's call it dedication :)07:29
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Stskeepshello fisheswilllaugh07:50
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iekkuwhat a nick :D07:54
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* iekku started to laugh07:54
iekkuam i fish?07:54
timophseems so07:54
timophone of those tropical ones I'd guess07:54
* timoph goes out to buy a fake mustache07:56
dm8tbra tropical punk-fish obviously07:56
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sledgesmoin mer :)08:04
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sledgeshow are your trainings, slaine ? :)08:10
slaineok, still doing my own bits to get ready for classes starting up again08:11
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sledgesyes, important is to actually train, that's what counts, but sometimes gets hard to hit the gym when on your own08:13
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Stskeepsgood morning08:21
Figure <-- playing in loop & drinking some sparkling wine ( english version) :)08:22
Figureanother thing to celeprate is that DNA fixed my fiber..08:22
slainesledges: speaking of which, my gym re-opens next week after a refurbishment. Looking forward to it.08:23
Figurethey changed my routing to another vlan.. seems that they have crowded lines here.. :/08:23
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Figurehaha :D08:23
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StskeepsSage: oh for crying out loud..08:25
Stskeepslbt: ^^08:25
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Sagewhat package is that?08:28
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* Sage takes a bat and starts chasing lbt 08:31
lbtSage: ?08:33
Aard\o/ violence, and it's not coming from me :)08:34
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Sagelbt: syncing from opensuse wont work out of the box you know :)08:36
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* Aard points to the bug I made, with the vendor request about having a policy disallowing that kind of transfers ;)08:37
Stskeepslbt: check sage's pastie above08:38
* Sage is not sure if this is a dream but he agrees with Aard ;)08:39
SageWe can always sync from other distros but we should not start merging those if opensuse version then this else that thigys08:40
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* lbt looks for marc's pastie of the huge middle finger08:40
AardSage: imo you should look at other distros for how they solve things, but never start copy'n'pasting stuff08:41
SageAard: well, that is what I meant actually :)08:41
AardSage: ah. I'll file it under 'speech impediment due to brain damage from last days' ;)08:42
lbtwould someone explain to me how this got through snapshot and pre-release08:42
Sagelbt: it is in mer-next the error that is08:43
Aardlbt: a fairy providing me arguments for my bug guided it.08:43
lbtSage: and snapshot?08:43
Sagelbt: I'm building against mer-next in cobs08:44
lbtwell, no point bitching about late testing at this point08:44
Sagemy point is mainly that before making the final release that should be fixed properly08:45
Sagealso some of the reviews go through so fast in mer review that I don't see those. Mainly as there is no option to subscribe to all changes (or if there is please let me know).08:45
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lbtwhy is it installing build-2012.02.2808:51
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lbtSage: Aard: Stskeeps: so how come:
w00tSage: I really should look at how to set up gerritbot for mer09:08
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w00tSage: see #qt-gerrit to see her in action09:09
Figurelbt: Sage: Could you problem becaused by the cache?09:11
Figurelbt: since in the lbt:s build log there is no mention about old package09:12
Figurealso I've seen some strange stuff with obs and version numbering09:13
Figurein rpm's09:13
lbtwe have had some issues due to us blindly following the MeeGo setup and ignoring the Release: value ... if only we didn't just blindly follow things like that :)09:15
w00twhat is Release: actually for?09:16
* w00t hides09:16
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lbtthe 'version' of a package relates to the upstream code release09:17
lbtthe Release relates to any modifications to that version by the distro09:18
w00tright, ok09:18
lbtcan be pure packaging, can include code09:18
lbtannoyingly our Release value is autogenerated and the OBS resets it in various situations09:19
lbtit also doesn't appear in changelogs09:19
lbtit can't contain vendor modification09:19
lbteg mer1nemo209:19
lbtit has been sucking since december 201009:19
w00twell, with git packaging, wouldn't changelogs be a bit, erm, different anyway? ('git shortlog' -> job done)09:20
Figurebtw is there a reason why all of the wiki's use curl to get files? and not like wget ? :)09:23
sledgeswget needs an extra silent parameter to shush the output09:23
FigureI like the flood :)09:24
StskeepsFigure: for various reasons wget isnt in mer core09:24
sledgescurls just spits out the contents, then you can redirect them/ pipe them/ process them etc before shaping into a downloaded file09:25
lbtFigure: sdk doesn't have wget09:25
lbtSage: Stskeeps: Aard: still waiting for input on that problem09:26
Figuresure it gives more options but with the howto wiki the curl parameters make it look like a mess :) only good reasin is that sdk doesn't have wget :)09:26
Stskeepslbt, will input when at desk09:26
Stskeepslbt, had to grab food09:26
lbtStskeeps: ty09:26
Stskeepslbt, couldn't even concentrate to fix a qt5 build problem so09:27
Aardlbt: the error message tells you what you should do, quite clearly. if it uses pkgconfig in the build adding pkgconfig files should work, otherwise explicitely add the library to the ld flags09:27
lbtStskeeps: well, if you can't manage something trivial like that ... ;)09:27
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merdevicehello mer irc09:28
lbtAard: ?09:28
Figurelbt: should we add irssi also to tools package? :D09:28
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lbtFigure: nah, we have emacs now09:28
lbtAard: "file /usr/lib/build/mkbaselibs from install of build-mkbaselibs-2012.05.31-1.1.noarch conflicts with file from package build-2012.02.28-1.1.noarch"09:29
lbtwhat ld flags?09:29
Aardlbt: you pasted this one /usr/bin/ld: note: 'g_thread_init' is defined in DSO /usr/lib/ so try adding it to the linker command line09:29
merdevicei have a question, i want to buy a smartphone, my wish is that i can load mer or tizen (oops, wrong channel) on it. what is there to consider?09:29
Figureemacs is for gurus irssi is for normal people :)09:29
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lbtAard: yeah, that's my damn point09:29
Aardlbt: in that log it complains about ld, not conflict09:30
lbtyeah - which is not what Sage posted09:30
merdeviceok, asked differently, can/could i load mer on any arm, x86 device? it's usually hard to get exact info about built-in hardware09:34
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lbtmerdevice: almost certainly not unless you have the vendor's support09:35
Aardmerdevice: yes, if you do the hardware adaptation, if it does not exist09:36
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merdeviceok, so at current, i can not setup a mer without writing my own drivers in the worst case?09:36
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lbtthat's not what you asked :)09:37
lbt"could i load mer on any arm, x86 device?" : no09:37
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lbt"Are there devices I can load Mer on?": yes09:37
merdeviceok, are there arm/x86 devices ready for mer?09:37
lbtyes, N9/N950/N900/pandaboard/RasPi/ExoPC/Touchpad....09:38
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Stskeepslbt: okay, i'm back09:43
Stskeepshit me with the issues09:43
lbtsage's problem:
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lbtcobs build log
lbtmy fresh checkout/build running in sdk matches c.obs09:44
merdevicethanks lbt for your answers. i guess i'm a bit early with my question, as mer is still in development, but is there a chance of backwards compatibility, is there some device where there is a high chance it will be supported by mer?09:45
StskeepsSage: --clean ?09:45
lbtmerdevice: our primary purpose is to enable vendors to make products09:45
lbtmerdevice: so it's unlikely (but not impossible) that existing devices will run mer in the future09:47
lbtmerdevice: there's some work being done on improving HW compatibility with Android but don't spend money based on that09:47
merdevicei understand that raspi (cool!) and pandapad are supported, as there is info about any piece on the board. what's special about n9, n900, n950, why are they supported?09:48
Stskeepsbecause people made hardware adaptations for them :)09:49
lbtmainly because there are 3D gfx drivers available09:49
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timophisn't archos g9 tablets supported through the plasma active work09:54
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Stskeepsthat too09:54
timophinstalling mer/pa on it is still on my todo list09:55
* timoph needs to find more time to do interesting stuff and experimentations09:56
* jukkaeklund sent archos g9 finally to warranty repair09:57
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SageStskeeps: clean helps yes, but we should not make people to do --clean every time we update core10:08
StskeepsSage: that is true, but in this particular case you had a old 'build' there10:08
Stskeepsand it seems like it didn't remove it10:08
SageStskeeps: has Mer ever had DeviceKit-power package10:08
Stskeepsnot to my knowledge10:08
Sageok, I'm removing provides and obsoletes for that from upower then as it is badly done anyway10:09
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lbtSage: I think you're missing another option10:09
kulveis it possible to create an bootable omap image with mic (that could be just dd'ed to sdcard to create boot and rootfs partitions)? And if it is possible, is there an example .ks somewhere?10:10
StskeepsSage: is it arm or x86 build?10:11
SageStskeeps: x8610:15
lbtSage: have you found the  --grovelling-apology option yet?10:18
lbtAard: you too ^^10:18
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AardI only saw the suse bits in there, and imo they should not be there :)10:21
Stskeepssuse bits?10:22
Stskeepsthey do kind of though10:22
Stskeepswe need to be damn sure build package is same in sdk and on builders, so10:22
Stskeepselse debugging is near impossible10:23
lbtAard: what Stskeeps said10:23
lbtbuild is a bit unusual in that respect10:23
lbtit's really developed here : but I may move it to mer git10:24
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merdeviceok, thank you very much guys, i appreciate your work10:29
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kulveanswering to my self with a question: is the partitioning done by the "part" keywords in here: ?11:14
kulveok. thanks :)11:15
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kulveI have some initial versions of x-loader, u-boot and kernel done. I figured that next I'll do an image with mic without rootfs to see if those boot11:15
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Stskeepsgood start11:16
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Stskeepshello chaitra11:22
kulveand now I found (again) the adaption "step by step" sub-page. I wonder why it is not linked from the main adaptation guide page. Linking..11:22
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kulvehow can I add package groups to my repo, like: ?11:33
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tsiironeany idea why I'm getting 504 gateway timeout when making commit to obs?, checkout works fine11:51
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Stskeepstsiirone: are you behind a proxy?11:53
tsiironenot currently no11:53
tsiironehave been struggling with that enough so I'm using N9's wlan hotspot11:54
tsiironeworked ok two days ago, but not today11:54
Stskeepstry again?11:54
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tsiironeI've trying quite many times now, for half an hour or so11:55
Stskeepsosc -d ?11:55
Stskeepsfor debugging11:55
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tsiironefails at post11:58
tsiironeI will try with another project11:58
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Stskeepslbt: ^12:00
tsiironehmm, let me check my history, I've might checkout it from wrong place actually as another project works12:03
* lbt will take a look soon12:04
Stskeepswell, i guess for some people there's a risk they're trying to check out their employers now closed obs12:04
Stskeepsso check that scenario too12:05
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tsiironeStskeeps, yep, I was trying to commit to original project, that was the problem12:11
Stskeepstsiirone: alright, problem solved12:11
tsiironeshouldn't copy&paste&fix commands at 8am12:12
Figureshouldn't do anything at 8am :)12:12
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tsiironeFigure, well yes, but what to do between 6am and 8am then :)12:13
lbtrun tests12:13
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Figure& drink something with caffeine :)12:15
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tsiironeday before yesterday my son (2 years) woke up at 5:55 and started to yell five-five-five as it stated on the N9's screensaver12:19
Stskeepsjust wait until he learns about 13:37 :)12:19
lbthey, careful or he could end up working for Microsoft12:20
Stskeepsnah, that's 6:66 ;)12:21
lbt( B16B00B5 )12:21
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kimjutsiirone, he knows about the 555 timer IC? ;)12:23
tsiironekimju, probably soon :) he knows alphabets and counts to 15 already, so shouldn't take long anymore12:24
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VDVsxIn mer Gerrit "diff all side by side" and "diff all unifed" are currently doing the same, opening new tabs, is it possible to have the "cascade version" all diffs in the same page ? much easier to review at least for me :D12:45
StskeepsVDVsx: hmm, not sure if gerrit has that feature12:46
Stskeepsdoes later versions have it?12:46
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VDVsxStskeeps: the one that we have at Nokia, works like that, one of those two buttons that I mention does that, can't remember each one but should be the first one I guess12:47
StskeepsVDVsx: file a bug for us to upgrade our gerrit then, bugs.merproject.org12:47
Stskeepstask severity12:47
VDVsxStskeeps: ok, I'll just check Qt one, I guess is the same as the internal version12:48
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VDVsxStskeeps: yes, its the same, for example:,all,32990,212:50
Stskeepsyes, that looks like a good feature12:51
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lbtStskeeps: our 2 workers are not doing well, will restart obsworker and add them to other vlan system15:02
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sledgesprobably they need to take a sick leave..15:09
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Stskeepstalk2sledges_not: wtf15:20
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talk2sledgesnotMdam nick length cap :))15:20
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Stskeepshello krans :)15:54
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kransHi Stskeeps am a newbee here :)15:54
Stskeepskrans: sure :) welcome to #mer! if you have any questions, feel free to ask at any time15:55
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kransStskeeps:trying to flash nemo on my N915:55
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Stskeepsok, #nemomobile also exists15:56
kransYeah i joined there as well , should that work out of the box if I follow the instructions at ?15:57
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* sledges just used reptyr to hijack irssi (running on a mosh session without screen) to a new screen and kill mosh session and still talk to you. gotta love that reptyr!16:02
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lbtsystemd is a complete PITA to debug16:16
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Stskeepssystemd.log_level=debug systemd.log_level=console ?16:26
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Stskeepsgood evening19:09
* lpotter blinks19:11
Stskeepsyes, i didn't say good morning for once :P19:11
lpotterin a way, I wish the 31st would come quickly19:13
Stskeepsi guess you brissies have later date of being 'free' than the offices in finland that has been laid off?19:14
Stskeepsthink a lot of people sent resignation email today19:14
lpotter31st is our last day19:14
CosmoHill10 of october for me if I don't renew my contract19:15
lpotterI would be crazy to resign19:15
sledgestimes of change..19:15
Stskeepswell, resign or 'take the package'19:15
Stskeepsor whatever it is real employees do19:15
* Stskeeps was only ever a subcon :P19:15
lpotterahh. ok. took package, but still closing down office.19:15
lpotterlooks like we might get to take some equipment with us.19:15
lpotterall my n tablets, greenphone, openmoko... qtoia running things19:16
Stskeepsnot bad19:16
lpottermight get an n900 if I'm lucky19:16
* sledges has two openmokos dusting the shelf, the real awesome thing is the stylus/pen/laser/flashlight thingy :)19:17
Stskeepsi have a mint n900 for purposes of sending to someone when we have n900 hackers on mer/nemo that looses their working n900 and hence can't work/test on the hw adaptation anymore19:18
Stskeepsstill waiting for find a home19:18
sledgeswhenever one still comes over a resistive touchscreen19:18
lpottermostly that my hands are tied in regards to coding19:18
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CosmoHillcan I ask, how long did you guys spend at your first jobs?19:21
Stskeepsmy first job was a paper route19:21
Stskeepsand something like 5-6 years there..19:21
lpotterI was a busboy for couple years eons ago19:21
Stskeepsnext job was at university, student programmer, 5 years..19:21
Stskeepsthen consultant ever since19:21
phdeswersledges, give me restive anyday. capacitive is impresise like hell and you don't want to use that when it is -30 outside...19:22
CosmoHilli've been at mine since april19:22
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phdeswerresistive is why I still use my N900 more than the N919:22
Stskeepsi kind of miss the n900 interface, my n950 isn't so much a work phone for me..19:23
Stskeepsas the swiss army knife n900 was19:23
phdeswersledges, does not fix the "imprecise" bit19:23
lpotterwith capacitive you can detect when your hand is hovering over screen19:23
Stskeepslpotter: really? even on n9 style hw?19:24
phdeswerHate it to have to try 6 times to press the answer button on the N9 (imprecise + stupidly small buttons does not work well)19:24
sledgesphdeswer: it was a joke (though used in real life :)), what I mean: I saw capacitive gloves or styluses in general for that purpose :)19:24
lpotterStskeeps: I havent done any tests, just research19:24
sledgeswell, that's an opinion, phdeswer :)19:24
lpotterStskeeps: I would suspect the driver drops any of those datas19:25
Stskeepsprobably. there's something to be said of gathering information from background noise19:25
phdeswersledges, it is my experience with all capacitive devices I have worked with.19:26
Stskeepsone of the researchers i worked with, did indoor positioning through background raditation..19:26
Stskeepsradiation, that is19:26
lpotterthats one way19:26
phdeswerStskeeps, sounds cool. How does it deal with local variations in background radiation?19:27
Stskeepsphdeswer: it wasn't very practical - but it's same method as wifi fingerprinting19:27
Stskeepsthe local variations are what helps deciding location19:27
Stskeepsi spent many hours collecting wifi fingerprints myself.. even got a published paper as co-author, heh19:27
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* Stskeeps looks at libhybris19:29
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sledgesindoor positioning with background radiation - you still need precies location of sources of that radiation; or do you first just probe all paths like a google maps van inside a building?19:30
Stskeepssledges: you fingerprint each location basically and use bayesian inference(sp)19:30
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