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| Stskeeps | lbt: prerelease please | 05:08 |
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| * Sage ponders if qtwebkit 2.2.1 is the latest release made atm. | 05:13 | |
| Stskeeps | there's 2.2.2 i think | 05:13 |
| Sage | as I would need to path 2.2.1 to get it build properly with new glib and the patch to fix that was merged 10 months ago :) | 05:14 |
| Sage | http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/97269 | 05:15 |
| Sage | https://gitorious.org/webkit/qtwebkit/trees/qtwebkit-2.2.2 | 05:16 |
| Sage | ok, not fixed in 2.2.2 either so patch needed anyway | 05:18 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 05:18 |
| Sage | wtf ;) Source/JavaScriptCore/wtf/gobject/GTypedefs.h | 05:18 |
| Bostik | very fitting subsystem name in that monstrocity | 05:19 |
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| timoph | morning | 05:36 |
| Stskeeps | morn timoph :) | 05:36 |
| timoph | how's things | 05:37 |
| Stskeeps | they're good.. got further with my experiments with using android graphics drivers on mer, so i'm happy | 05:38 |
| timoph | nice | 05:39 |
| timoph | that should make possible to run mer on a bunch of more devices | 05:40 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 05:40 |
| timoph | given one can boot anything else than android on them in the first place | 05:40 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: trying with wayland I presume? | 05:41 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: at some point, yeah | 05:41 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: but right now i'm happy just putting shit on screen | 05:42 |
| dm8tbr | :) | 05:42 |
| Stskeeps | i have it giving me egl context/surface, so | 05:42 |
| Stskeeps | so that's already quite far | 05:42 |
| dm8tbr | did you wrap it into something or are you doing dual-libc? | 05:42 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: do you know libdl, dlsym, dlopen? | 05:43 |
| Stskeeps | (just want to establish level of knowledge before i explain it) | 05:44 |
| timoph | :) | 05:44 |
| dm8tbr | I've heard the terms, but not that great with the stuff :) | 05:44 |
| Stskeeps | alright, nevertheless, i have a libdl implementation which is basically android's linker | 05:44 |
| Stskeeps | so i can dlopen android libraries from within a glibc program | 05:44 |
| dm8tbr | ah, nice, so no need to ship bionic | 05:44 |
| timoph | that's actually already a epic win | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | at first there is a need, due to abi differences, but with sufficient glue code, you could leave bionic out of the equation | 05:45 |
| dm8tbr | exactly | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | right now i'm having glibc and bionic side-by-side | 05:45 |
| jonwil | So basically the idea is to find a way to load android GPU drivers on Mer and have everything Just Work(tm)? | 05:45 |
| dm8tbr | ah, ok, still great progress | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: not just an idea, i'm actually doing it | 05:45 |
| jonwil | wow | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/carsten_wins_the_interweb.txt | 05:46 |
| timoph | :) | 05:46 |
| Stskeeps | that successfully runs eglgetprocaddress | 05:46 |
| Stskeeps | i have more exciting examples | 05:46 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: and on the kernel side? how do you handle gralloc et al? | 05:47 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: reuse android kernel | 05:47 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: i'm actually using gralloc in this example | 05:48 |
| Stskeeps | once you get past the taste of having bionic side by side with glibc in memory, it looks quite interesting | 05:49 |
| jonwil | I wonder how hard it would be to use this same idea to load other binaries? I could see the Galaxy Nexus being the perfect target for a full Linux OS, you would just need to find a way to get the Samsung cell modem libraries to load and write something to talk to them (that or reverse engineer things and write an ofono backend) | 05:49 |
| Stskeeps | jonwil: RIL loading is certainly in my aims | 05:49 |
| jonwil | I bet a lot of people would be happy being able to run full Linux, QT etc on a Nexus device (even better if they can do it on a CDMA Verizon or Sprint Nexus device :) | 05:50 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: we've been doing bionic + uclibc for years now :) | 05:50 |
| _av500_ | well, not in the same binary | 05:50 |
| _av500_ | jonwil: you cn run a full linux in parallel easily | 05:51 |
| jonwil | hmmm ok | 05:51 |
| _av500_ | google was even so kind to use different paths for binaries and libs | 05:51 |
| jonwil | Never owned an Android device so I didn't know that | 05:51 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: either way, if you go look at android's window definitions it also becomes easy to utilize wayland if you so wanted | 05:52 |
| Stskeeps | so suddenly you have a large wad of usable wayland on mobile devices | 05:52 |
| jonwil | I assume Android isn't using X but something different? | 05:52 |
| _av500_ | in the end they all cook with water :) | 05:52 |
| _av500_ | right | 05:52 |
| _av500_ | x you need to bridge/tunnel | 05:52 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not going to bother with x support, personally | 05:52 |
| Stskeeps | other crazy people can do that, i have my crazy area | 05:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 05:53 |
| dm8tbr | wayland emulates x, doesn't it? | 05:53 |
| _av500_ | if you own the system, you can do very hackisch things | 05:53 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: not terribly much | 05:53 |
| Stskeeps | there's xwayland but.. that's about it | 05:53 |
| _av500_ | like switching between android and x framebuffers | 05:53 |
| dm8tbr | ah, ok | 05:53 |
| jonwil | if you can get GUI bringup (QT etc) without needing all the X baggage, thats even better | 05:53 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: silly question, do you have a device you can boot with an android kernel, into mer? | 05:54 |
| _av500_ | or make the x canvas one android surface or so | 05:54 |
| Stskeeps | i need someone to run a testcase for me | 05:54 |
| dm8tbr | _av500_: I think that's what the whole ubuntu thing does... :) | 05:54 |
| _av500_ | yes | 05:54 |
| _av500_ | or gen7, without X though :) | 05:54 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: yes and I can make time for hacking later today | 05:54 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: that'd be good, i know PVR is single-threaded, so | 05:54 |
| Stskeeps | i have a really morbid issue on my touchpad, not only in my test, so | 05:55 |
| dm8tbr | I have an ancient plasma image from april or so | 05:55 |
| dm8tbr | might need to build something newer | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | dunno, i just need something that uses android kernel as that's what the gpu drivers will expect :) | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | i have a omapzoom2 but i can't find a sane android build for it i want to use :P | 05:56 |
| jonwil | The real trick is making sure that the Android device you choose to buy is one that actually lets you replace the kernel and software on it... :) | 05:58 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: zoom2, poor you | 05:58 |
| dm8tbr | jonwil: thankfully archos devices are good for that | 06:10 |
| dm8tbr | jonwil: as long as mgmt allows _av500_ to release SDE in time... | 06:10 |
| jonwil | what is SDE? | 06:10 |
| dm8tbr | oversimplified: their bootloader unlocker (signed) | 06:11 |
| _av500_ | (sighed) :) | 06:11 |
| dm8tbr | :) | 06:11 |
| jonwil | ok | 06:11 |
| dm8tbr | jonwil: it's a bit as if you'd be flashing NOLO together with MOSLO. you only do it once. | 06:12 |
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| jonwil | Last I heard the Asus eee devices are good for bootloader unlocks too | 06:21 |
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| Stskeeps | hello fbostanci | 06:40 |
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| dm8tbr | jonwil: I'm partial to archos. they gave me devices. <3 | 06:44 |
| dm8tbr | but even that aside IMHO it's nice hardware and pretty safe to hack | 06:45 |
| jonwil | :) | 06:45 |
| Sage | I've asked this before, but should -static package depend on -devel? | 06:46 |
| Sage | depends/always/never? :) | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | isn't there a mention of this in packaging guidelines | 06:47 |
| jonwil | I just wish more vendors were hacker-friendly and offered unlocked bootloaders | 06:47 |
| jonwil | but the whole locked-bootloaders stuff is mostly down to carriers | 06:48 |
| dm8tbr | and DRM crap (once again on the rise) | 06:48 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: I can probably read if it is there. | 06:48 |
| Sage | err... I can't probably..* :) | 06:48 |
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| jonwil | DRM is not a big issue, I am sure anyone who is going to play with their device would have no problem if a bootloader unlock made DRM protected content stop working | 06:51 |
| dm8tbr | jonwil: you're thinking the wrong way around though. the manufacturers are in bed with carriers and those are in bed with content providers. so it's ZOMG if we allow someone to unlock their device they could do THINGS! | 06:52 |
| Bostik | the smartest designs I've seen (and one I've advocated myself) used the onboard security HW mechanism to control the DRM parts: certain operations were only available if the entire boot-chain was "known-good" (iow. locked down and crippled, hobbled and raped) | 06:53 |
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| Bostik | --> custom kernel and/or custom environment -> no DRM capability -> hack all you want :) | 06:54 |
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| jonwil | I remember flashing a custom bootloader to my Motorola Z6 and running (IIRC) a self-built kernel on that | 06:57 |
| jonwil | Z6 is pre-Android linux device from moto | 06:57 |
| jonwil | locked down everything | 06:57 |
| jonwil | but happens to use Linux | 06:57 |
| Sage | Fun: I want to update telepathy in nemo. Need to update glib2 that breaks qtwebkit (fixed with patch) and qemu-usermode. qemu needs pcre-static so need to add it to pcre and update the package at the same time. :) | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: yay! distribution jenga! | 07:01 |
| Sage | Fun how things pile up :) | 07:01 |
| Sage | something else broke as well but fixed that one already. but anyway. update one -> update 5+ :) | 07:01 |
| jonwil | At least you dont have to deal with any binary bits that are talking to Telepathy :P | 07:02 |
| Bostik | Sage: I called a chain like that "fallout" back in 2004 :) | 07:02 |
| Sage | well, at least it seems that these things are getting easier to fix and handle with time :) | 07:04 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: ok, next release is again complete rebuild I guess with pcre :) | 07:05 |
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| jussi | lbt: is a scary driver... :D | 07:18 |
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| Stskeeps | jussi: try going to yosemite with him | 07:19 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: hehe | 07:19 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: which car did he have there? | 07:19 |
| Stskeeps | jussi: not a jaguar | 07:20 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: hahaha | 07:20 |
| jussi | that damn jag is so fast... | 07:20 |
| jussi | I mustve pissed my pants at least 3 times :P | 07:20 |
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| Stskeeps | morn Venemo_N9 | 07:23 |
| Stskeeps | jussi: i've had two life threatening experiences.. one was driving down a romanian mountain in a old broken bus with a driver sms'ing at same time around the turns.. and driving with david in yosemite hills/mountains | 07:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:24 |
| Stskeeps | he's a good driver, yes, but :P | 07:24 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: its doesnt change the scariness factor... | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | bingo | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:25 |
| Venemo_N9 | hi Stskeeps | 07:26 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: so what errors did you get with the mtf stuff? | 07:27 |
| Venemo_N9 | various compile errors, and they were different for each branch | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:28 |
| Venemo_N9 | but at the end the 1.1 branch built without error | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | was it compiling for mer, or other target? | 07:28 |
| Venemo_N9 | no, I compiled for fedora at that time | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 07:29 |
| Stskeeps | that may be very challenging | 07:29 |
| Venemo_N9 | but I dunno how that code can compile at all anywhere | 07:29 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: the other way around was on a rainy dai in JKL? ;) | 07:29 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: not life threatening, just not a happy panda day | 07:29 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: :nod: we patch it a bit in mer | 07:30 |
| Venemo_N9 | -wall was turned on, and there were errors like trying to convert a cost pointer to a regular one, and comparing signed and unsigned stuff, whatever. | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yess.. | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | it's tested on gcc4.4 or gcc4.5 | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | gcc4.6 is much more tense | 07:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | I didn't even understand how this compiled on harmattan | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | just imagine the horrors i had back in the day with the hildon stack | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | putting it on a modern system | 07:32 |
| Venemo_N9 | anyway, it's a huge bloody bloated mess | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:32 |
| Venemo_N9 | yeah hildon was a mess to | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | qml is much more appealing | 07:32 |
| Venemo_N9 | agreed | 07:32 |
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| Venemo_N9 | but you know, I just don't get it. how could they write such crappy code? | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | well | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | you know how it used to be called DUI? | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | either way, i think there's some truth to this comment from dominiescommunicate: One big mistake which wasted a lot of engineering power was to not be able to make company wide effort to build one single widget set for mobile platforms for Qt. It stayed being split between meegotouch and orbit which same, dragged speed down, even at some point someone tried to unify them | 07:36 |
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| arc_mat | Stskeeps: DUI -> Developed Under Influence (of drugs) ? | 07:42 |
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| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, what is orbit? | 07:44 |
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| kulve | was it so that the Qt on Mer doesn't use GLES/EGL by default but I had to export something somewhere to get that enabled (nemo is quite sluggish, so I assume it's not using GLES/EGL fully at least) | 07:46 |
| Venemo_N9 | anyway, I completely understand why Intel wanted to get rid of mtf | 07:46 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: previously called DirectUI | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: qt is built for gles/egl at least | 07:47 |
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| Stskeeps | kulve: at least mtf is not performing fairly well | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | not 100% sure why though | 07:47 |
| kulve | Stskeeps: IIRC you mentioned in the spring that I had to enable something to get it into use. E.g. qmlviewer needs -opengl I think | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | which wraps it in a qglwidget | 07:48 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: i'm going to continue a bit with livecd | 07:54 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: ok | 07:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: gah, i keep on loosing this url.. url for your next image? | 07:57 |
| Sage | http://sage.kapsi.fi/Nemo-tmp/0.20120719.0.3.NEMO.2012-08-02.5/ | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 07:58 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, I thought meegotouch was called directui previously | 07:59 |
| Venemo_N9 | but. the good news is that we note have a clue about bug 84 | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: they were -both- called directui | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | which is even more complicated | 08:00 |
| alterego | moaning | 08:00 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, srsly? lol. | 08:00 |
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| Venemo_N9 | w00t and myself have been investigating the issue, from different directions. at the end we agreed that the 3 symptoms are actually the result of one bug, and that it has to do with window redirection. | 08:02 |
| Venemo_N9 | and none of the symptoms are present on harmattan | 08:02 |
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| Venemo_N9 | w00t thinks that something is not allright about the overlay window. | 08:03 |
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| lbt | morning all | 08:06 |
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| Venemo_N9 | hi lbt :) | 08:07 |
| situ | Good Morning | 08:07 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, anyway, I'm now convinced that mr | 08:07 |
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| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, anyway I'm now convinced that mtf needs to be killed with fire | 08:08 |
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| * mikhas lends torch to Venemo_N9 | 08:16 | |
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| Venemo_N9 | mikhas :) | 08:19 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: prerelease please | 08:20 |
| lbt | pre? what did I miss? | 08:20 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: jpoutiai seems to have a problem with his meego.com account, didn't get the email or so | 08:20 |
| lbt | dm8tbr: I saw - but ty | 08:21 |
| dm8tbr | good, thanks | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: kmod issue | 08:21 |
| lbt | OK | 08:22 |
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| lbt | oh and it appears jussi woke up in a cold sweat ;) | 08:23 |
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| jussi | :D | 08:24 |
| jussi | lbt: more than once... | 08:24 |
| jussi | :P | 08:25 |
| lbt | the flashing blue lights still haunt me... | 08:26 |
| jussi | haha | 08:26 |
| Stskeeps | :blink: | 08:26 |
| jussi | the memory of lbt doingf over 100mph past the police... | 08:26 |
| Stskeeps | did they catch him? | 08:26 |
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| lbt | they were on the wrong side of the dual-carriageway | 08:28 |
| lbt | I mean the right side from my point of view :) | 08:28 |
| jussi | and attending to an accident... I think... we were past too quick to really see: D | 08:28 |
| Venemo_N9 | is there someone who can explain to me how works? | 08:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | lol @ swype | 08:31 |
| lbt | you press the " " key and a " " appears | 08:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | sorry, swype cut off half my sentence | 08:32 |
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| Venemo_N9 | what I wanted to ask is, could someone please explain how window redirection works? | 08:32 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: http://pastie.org/4382764 | 08:38 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: er.. mic does the mkinitrd..? | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: http://pastie.org/4382904 | 09:30 |
| Ionakka | <Venemo_N9> what I wanted to ask is, could someone please explain how window redirection works? <--- compositioning? | 09:31 |
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| Venemo_N9 | Ionakka, yes | 09:31 |
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| Venemo | Ionakka: can you? :) | 09:37 |
| Ionakka | Venemo_N9, Venemo: things around X aren't that well documented and google is not the best friend to find the existing doc/relevant mailing list discussions o.O | 09:38 |
| Ionakka | Venemo: if you have some specific questions, i _might_ be able to answer | 09:39 |
| Venemo | Ionakka: yes, that's my problem exactly | 09:39 |
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| Venemo | I was able to find some clues, but not much. specifically, not enough to debug the bug. | 09:39 |
| Venemo | for a start, I'd like to know what exactly happens when a fullscreen window gets redirected | 09:40 |
| Ionakka | Venemo: the best available answer is in the implementations sources | 09:42 |
| Venemo | Ionakka: of what? | 09:42 |
| Ionakka | x composite extension | 09:42 |
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| Ionakka | also the composite manager | 09:42 |
| Venemo | hm. | 09:42 |
| Ionakka | mcompositor is something worth taking a look at | 09:43 |
| Ionakka | does bugs.merproject.org and bugs.nemomobile.org btw use meego.com accounts? | 09:44 |
| Venemo | no they don't | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | no, but bugs.nemomobile.org shares | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | with merproject.org | 09:44 |
| Venemo | I have taken a look at mcompositor, but I didn't really find a clue. | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | Ionakka: we're eventually moving away from meego.com community obs too | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | to loosen the last tie to meego.com, as it's in practice a dead project | 09:45 |
| Stskeeps | well, except the idea and dreams live on | 09:45 |
| Stskeeps | and code.. | 09:46 |
| dm8tbr | viva la revolucion! :) | 09:46 |
| Ionakka | os code tends to survive things :3 | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. i'm still not entirely sure that people understand just how much got open sourced in meego prokect | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | project | 09:47 |
| Venemo | Ionakka: it seems that when something is drawn on top of a fullscreen window (eg. compositor animations or the status menu), the fullscreen window is drawn incorrectly. | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: does the issue appear on n900 too? | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | that's probably first indicator | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | if it doesn't, then it's a problem with manual update of display | 09:48 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: I don't have an N900 to test... :( | 09:49 |
| Venemo | do you? | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: i do but i'm busy rest of day :/ | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | there's good and bad sides to having a day job again ;) | 09:49 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: ? I think that error was caused by /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.Ckk5Wf: line 1: /sbin/new-kernel-pkg: No such file or directory error above | 09:49 |
| Sage | new-kernel-pkg is part of grubby stuff | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: ok | 09:50 |
| Ionakka | Venemo: what kind of funky stuff you see? | 09:50 |
| Ionakka | also, what kind of hw? | 09:50 |
| Venemo | Ionakka: N950. | 09:50 |
| Venemo | Ionakka: I see an outdated state of the window in question, or other (mostly already closed) windows | 09:51 |
| Ionakka | hmm... smells like something in backbuffer | 09:52 |
| Ionakka | or some other buffer confusion | 09:52 |
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| Ionakka | hmm... just came into my mind | 09:53 |
| Ionakka | if you have direct rendering, compositor might not track your paints | 09:54 |
| Ionakka | i could imagine that compositor has hackbuffer(s) where the application paints while composited | 09:54 |
| Venemo | it's true, but apparently it does not | 09:55 |
| Ionakka | goes direct rendering and paints directly to screen backbuf | 09:55 |
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| Ionakka | and when it comes back to composited rendering, compositor shows something before the app has updated it's compositor-sided backbuf | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: kicked all that seemed sane to kick | 09:56 |
| Venemo | so you're saying that the problem is that the compositor-side back buffer isn't updated properly? | 09:56 |
| Ionakka | Venemo: that was highly speculative | 09:56 |
| Ionakka | need to at least check the sources and maybe run things in debugger to see what really is happening | 09:57 |
| Ionakka | that just smells possible/likely | 09:57 |
| Venemo | it is likely | 09:58 |
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| Venemo | when I made my window composited, the issue was not present. | 09:59 |
| Venemo | (I looked into mcompositor and found a way to make it composite my window, just as an experiment) | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | keep in mind our xorg dri driver isn't exactly up to date | 10:01 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: why not? I thought it is. | 10:08 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: it ties very closely to xorg patches | 10:09 |
| Ionakka | of the debugging fun that comes if the problem in on xorg side :p | 10:09 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: aren't our drivers at least newer than harmattan's? | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | not really | 10:11 |
| Venemo | hm | 10:13 |
| Venemo | well then, no surprises. | 10:14 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: what prevents us from upgrading? along with the x server? | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | x server is too new | 10:14 |
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| Ionakka | too new meaning too unstable? | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | Ionakka: nah.. meaning, there was dri2 patches that didn't go into upstream | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | but is in xorg driver.. | 10:19 |
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| Venemo | so, let's patch the new one too | 10:30 |
| Venemo | what's the big deal? | 10:33 |
| Venemo | the issue probably doesn't even exist in the new versions | 10:33 |
| Venemo | as it obviously doesn't exist on harmattan | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | well | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | i've actually tried patching it and it's not as easy as it sounds | 10:33 |
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| Venemo | :( | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | it's on level of fennec in terms of developer-sanity | 10:40 |
| Venemo | at one occasion, I had the "pleasure" of looking at xorg code... | 10:40 |
| Venemo | I know what you're talking about | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | wayland is much more pleasant in that regard | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | can't wait until we go there | 10:40 |
| Venemo | so, why don't we? | 10:40 |
| Ionakka | existing stuff using x? | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | what ionakka said | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:41 |
| Venemo | according to others, qt and even qt-components can easily be patched to work on wayland | 10:41 |
| Venemo | and I think we all agree about mtf. | 10:41 |
| Aard | Venemo: I know, but we do have some mtf legacy for now, unfortunately | 10:42 |
| Venemo | I mean, agree not to care about it that much | 10:42 |
| Venemo | Aard: indeed we so | 10:42 |
| Venemo | Aard: indeed we do | 10:42 |
| Venemo | but, why is it so important to keep around? | 10:42 |
| Aard | it will be phased out, but in a controlled way | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: as seen in some failed nokia programmes, throwing out everything isn't a good strategy | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:43 |
| Venemo | all right :) | 10:43 |
| Aard | Venemo: there are still some applications using it, and there are some apis we want to keep to make portability easier. once both of those are resolved mtf will go away | 10:43 |
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| Stskeeps | hello samimeri :) welcome to #mer , if you have any questions at any time or about how to contribute, feel free to ask | 10:44 |
| Venemo | Aard: I know you probably can't comment, but perhaps you can. didn't the jolla guys experience bug 84 while writing their UX? | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | nemo or mer | 10:45 |
| Venemo | https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84 | 10:45 |
| Venemo | the one I've been talking about for the past week or so | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: i think that happens for everybody using x11-mtf | 10:46 |
| Sage | lbt: new prerelease out yet? | 10:46 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: it isn't related to mtf at all. | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: ok, x11-n9xx hw adaptation-mcompositor | 10:47 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: indeed | 10:47 |
| lbt | Sage: armv7hl is whizzing past atm | 10:47 |
| Venemo | so, we'll just live with bug 84 then until a brave soul ports that xorg patch? | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: or we move to wayland on n9xx | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:47 |
| * Aard slaps Stskeeps | 10:48 | |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: you already convinced me that it's not a good idea to rush to wayland for salvation | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: yup | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | welcome to my life, catch 22 | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:49 |
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| Venemo | so | 10:52 |
| Venemo | let's patch X. | 10:52 |
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| Stskeeps | hey zolkis, good to see you here too again | 10:53 |
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| Stskeeps | oh freenode, how i love thee | 10:54 |
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| Venemo | however I still don't understand that if the issue is that the compositor's own buffer isn't updated (as Ionakka suggests) then how can this be fixed by upgrading X? | 10:54 |
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| Venemo | and if harmattan ships the same mcompositor version, how come it doesn't have this issue? | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: so the issue is probably that it goes from xorg's last picture of the full screen | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | which != what has been flipped fullscreen to the screen | 10:54 |
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| Venemo | is there a way to tell X, "hey, look at how my fullscreen looks now!" ? | 10:55 |
| Ionakka | Venemo: I wouldn't count on issue getting fixed by X upgrade | 10:55 |
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| Venemo | Ionakka: but then, why isn't the bug present on harmattan? | 10:55 |
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| Ionakka | Venemo: no idea | 10:55 |
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| Venemo | all right :) | 10:56 |
| Venemo | so, how do we tell the compositor/X/whatever to update its own buffer of the window? | 10:56 |
| Ionakka | to give any meaningful answer i would need to read composite manager to understand what it's asking exactly from x :p | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: because there's a 14k diff file against xorg 1.9.5 | 10:56 |
| w00t | Venemo: can you please have a little patience? | 10:56 |
| w00t | I will work on it, but I have other things to do right now.. | 10:56 |
| Venemo | w00t: I just want to understand the thing | 10:57 |
| Venemo | no impatience meant :) | 10:57 |
| w00t | Venemo: I've made a short attempt at porting the delta over to take a look, but it doesn't apply cleanly, so I'll need to set a few hours aside tonight to try untangle it | 10:58 |
| w00t | once that's done, if it fixes it, we get the fun job of trying to figure out what part(s) fixed it | 10:59 |
| Venemo | would be nice if I could help. | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's bigger fish to fry at this exact moment | 11:00 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: what do you mean? | 11:00 |
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| Stskeeps | as in, it's an irritating bug, but not one that harms a terribly lot | 11:00 |
| w00t | you already have, your point about the repaint last night made me get quite a bit closer (as now I'm almost certain the problem is in X) | 11:00 |
| Venemo | :) | 11:01 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: what are you suggesting? :) | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: unsure, just stating that there's other good things to work on, too :P we call this a rabbithole in mer - it's a thing that you can end up spending a lot of time in but have difficulties getting out of | 11:02 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: I see. | 11:02 |
| Venemo | well, I'll just continue with my qml desktop then. | 11:02 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: like tearing? ;) | 11:03 |
| Sage | w00t: you talked about old xorg yesterday. Do you want to try newer xorg version if I build one? | 11:04 |
| w00t | Sage: if you want to try that, sure.. I'm trying (well, started trying) a different approach of making us patch-identical to harmattan to see what that does | 11:04 |
| * Sage check how many patches mer Xorg has | 11:05 | |
| w00t | not many | 11:05 |
| w00t | (compared to harmattan..) | 11:05 |
| Sage | that problem started to annoy me as well ;) | 11:05 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: do we have something like libsocialweb in mer? are there any viable alternatives to it so far? | 11:05 |
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| w00t | we don't have anything like it, I think | 11:07 |
| Venemo | I would rather not use libsocialweb, because it uses glib. | 11:08 |
| Venemo | however I'm open to suggestions to look for a Qt alternative | 11:08 |
| w00t | well, you interface with it over dbus, i think | 11:08 |
| Venemo | I know | 11:09 |
| Venemo | but it's not maintained | 11:09 |
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| w00t | it is, it's a part of gnome | 11:09 |
| w00t | last commit in june | 11:10 |
| Venemo | hm. | 11:10 |
| Venemo | do you think it would be OK to use it? | 11:10 |
| w00t | not sure as i don't know the deep technical details of it, just the skinny overview :) | 11:10 |
| w00t | but it could be worth investigating for sure | 11:10 |
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| w00t | btw, there is also http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/libsocialweb-qt/trees/master which could make some form of starting point, but that certainly is unmaintained | 11:11 |
| w00t | .. this is probably more appropriate for #nemomobile now I come to think of it | 11:11 |
| Venemo | ---> #nemomobile then | 11:12 |
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| Sage | \o/ glib update patches now in review so now I can get into the telepathy stuff again :D | 11:13 |
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| Stskeeps | hello saya | 11:25 |
| saya | Hi :) | 11:25 |
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| yunta | is there an easy way to put nemo on n900, in internal memory (I don't have sd card) ? | 11:52 |
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| Venemo | yunta: I think so. there's a page about this on the wiki. | 12:04 |
| Venemo | anyway, I gotta leave now. have a nice day! | 12:04 |
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| Stskeeps | yunta: it's not a terribly good thing to do it, as you need custom images with bigger swap, too | 12:05 |
| yunta | bleah... | 12:10 |
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| Stskeeps | hello mpeterss :) | 12:50 |
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| kulve | Stskeeps: I had to leave for awhile but now back. I can see from the logs that 3d hw is used when I run qmlviewer -opengl and it's not when I don't give the -opengl. With Nemo UI the 3d is not used either | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: interesting | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: -graphicssystem opengl ? | 13:30 |
| kulve | is there a global way for that? | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM or something.. | 13:30 |
| kulve | I think it was an env variable to profile or something | 13:30 |
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| kulve | maybe it was QT_DEFAULT_RUNTIME_SYSTEM | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | ah, that too | 13:35 |
| w00t | yup | 13:35 |
| kulve | quite an improvement :) | 13:38 |
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| Stskeeps | good :) | 13:42 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: could you potentially install lipstick and see how it runs? | 13:44 |
| kulve | I don't have networking, so I need to reflash the whole thing, but yes | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | that's a non-mtf homescreen so | 13:45 |
| kulve | hmm.. where do I get that (and how do I start it up)? | 13:46 |
| w00t | kulve: i don't think we have the exact latest packaged.. as venemo had been doing some hacking on it | 13:48 |
| kulve | ifconfig shows wlan0 but the GUI doesn't show anything | 13:48 |
| w00t | kulve: repo is at http://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Astskeeps%3Agrande2 has it, too, i think | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | old version | 13:49 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: how's release going? | 13:52 |
| lbt | release is finished and update to cobs has started | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:52 |
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| lbt | what was changed? | 13:56 |
| lbt | kmod ? | 13:56 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: ^ | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | kmod | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | and repomd-repo-something | 13:56 |
| lbt | repomd-pattern-builder ? | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | right | 13:57 |
| lbt | kulve: what's the blocker for networking? | 13:59 |
| lbt | ah, nm - you're on Nemo | 13:59 |
| kulve | no ethernet connector and I don't know what's the problem with wlan | 13:59 |
| kulve | lbt: what should I be on? :) | 14:00 |
| lbt | yeah - if you were building bare Mer then i have some scripts that could help :) | 14:00 |
| kulve | well, I guess I could use those still? | 14:00 |
| lbt | Nemo should handle it - these are more hacks for minimal systems with no UI | 14:01 |
| kulve | ok | 14:01 |
| * w00t notes that cobs is a bit busy at the moment | 14:02 | |
| * w00t counts 6 copies of libmeegotouch building :-p | 14:03 | |
| w00t | oh, 8 now | 14:03 |
| alterego | Well, I guess it's more popular than we thought | 14:04 |
| w00t | lol | 14:04 |
| leinir | ew ;) | 14:06 |
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| kulve | Stskeeps: lipstick seems to scroll smoothly | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: ok, good | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess settings is screwed? | 14:12 |
| lbt | mmm ssd and slightly broken perl script -> 1Gb .spec file | 14:12 |
| kulve | Stskeeps: what do you mean? | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: this this git-pkg by chance | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: well, if settings app run slowly | 14:13 |
| lbt | yes | 14:13 |
| kulve | Stskeeps: so it does | 14:13 |
| lbt | auto-fixing .spec for PatchXX. %patch etc | 14:13 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: you gave it linux kernel as a test..? | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:14 |
| lbt | good idea... | 14:14 |
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| vgrade | packs for his hols | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | enjoy :) | 14:45 |
| vgrade | looking forwards to no comute days | 14:46 |
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| sivang | re all | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | wb | 14:57 |
| sivang | hey :) | 14:59 |
| lbt | FYI updatestorm is done | 15:00 |
| sivang | sounds like it is a good thing that it is done :) | 15:01 |
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| bigbluehat | Stskeeps: reading this, thought of you: http://web.archive.org/web/20070630213952/http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/SciAmDraft3.html | 15:08 |
| bigbluehat | "ubiquitous computing" | 15:08 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: do you still have somewhere your original scribbles of ubiqitous computing you discussed with me still in the late MeeGo days? | 15:13 |
| sivang | I would like to re-read it. | 15:13 |
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| Stskeeps | projectgrande.wikispaces.com | 15:15 |
| sivang | yep, thanks! | 15:18 |
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| * Stskeeps relaxes after a long day | 15:24 | |
| Venemo_N9 | :) | 15:25 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, new job? | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: for a while now | 15:26 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, jolla? | 15:26 |
| * Stskeeps is with Jolla | 15:26 | |
| Venemo_N9 | ah, I should've guessed | 15:26 |
| Venemo_N9 | well, I still have a 3 hour train journey ahead of me | 15:27 |
| * Venemo_N9 is visiting home | 15:28 | |
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| * Stskeeps is far from his birth place by now | 15:35 | |
| Stskeeps | at least 7 hours, flight + train | 15:35 |
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| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, have you moved to Finland? | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | thank god no | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | same location, warsaw, poland | 15:38 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: I enjoyed a cold and rainy july :-p | 15:40 |
| sivang | I was amazed how kind were Warsaw's airport personnel covering up for elal's failure to be on schedule ;) | 15:41 |
| sivang | I've never passed a border control check so fast, faster then EU passport :-p | 15:41 |
| Venemo_N9 | Stskeeps, hm, nice that you didn't have to | 15:43 |
| sivang | Venemo_N9: still in Budapest? | 15:45 |
| Venemo_N9 | sivang, yeah, although I'm visiting home now | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N9: yeah, it's good to work with modern companies | 15:45 |
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| sivang | Venemo_N9: the new airport is very cool, although it was personneless which was very annoying on the weekend :) | 15:47 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: sometime the whole world will understand the telecommuting is the future of job world. | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: there's big downsides to it though | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | going somewhere on 24 hours notice has happened to me at some point | 15:49 |
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| * Stskeeps hums along to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RfWTOqtCrQ | 15:49 | |
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| Venemo_N9 | :) | 15:51 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: indeed, everything has its downsided, but I guess this did not happen too often. Office settings is nice as well given you can reach it easily without 1 hour drive for less then 8 km in boiling hot road :) | 15:51 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: awesome tune. I love the pet shop boys. | 15:52 |
| * sivang runs for the headpiece | 15:53 | |
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| sivang | so, trying to sort out https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=433 . I don't see mer's bugzilla has a component for docs , or wiki or so? | 16:44 |
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| sivang | in order to enable lists of bugs that are doc wiki and non coding contributing I think it could be useful to have it | 16:48 |
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| sivang | ah I found them O_o | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | sivang: sounds like a good bug to make | 17:09 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: yes, so we have a Wiki component now as I see, and I'm contemplating if we could use a documentation component, but since we don't have other docs than wiki so far, it might be used only when we have released docs (like the Mer Vendor Manual) etc | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | makes sense | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | file a bug against bugzilla | 17:42 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: also, as per bug #433 , I've added a section to 'Contributing' and I'm now scratching to see which wiki areas could use more love so I can list them in a section similar to the bug list in 433 trail. | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 17:45 |
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| Stskeeps | feel free to organise a doc day, too | 17:45 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: k, I'll file a bug about that as well. My hunch (without checking too much the state of docs/wiki in Nemo) that nemo needs that as well, and in nemo, given its nature docs would be different than the reference upstream core Mer is, so I'm thinking the same should apply to nemo bug tracker and doc day as well. | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:51 |
| sivang | cool, I'll set to record this in bug trackers. | 17:52 |
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| lbt_away | nb... git-pkg can now make normal+pristine repos from an upstream and existing osc packaging | 18:00 |
| lbt_away | will push tomorrow | 18:00 |
| lbt_away | -> tango o/ | 18:00 |
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| Stskeeps | wb sivang | 19:37 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: accidently killed my irssi ;) | 19:37 |
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| jonwil | reverse engineering stuff is fun :) | 19:38 |
| jonwil | even more so when what you reverse engineered actually works :) | 19:38 |
| sivang | jonwil: what are you re'ing? | 19:39 |
| jonwil | I just reverse engineered wl1251-cal | 19:39 |
| sivang | jonwil: what does it do? dials the gsm modem or ..? | 19:42 |
| jonwil | no its for WiFi on the N900 | 19:43 |
| jonwil | it does various initialization things | 19:43 |
| sivang | i see, nice, is it all assembly / c? | 19:49 |
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| hozmaster | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail | 20:08 |
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| Stskeeps | yup? | 20:08 |
| hozmaster | what section Product category and branch names means or it's obsolete ? | 20:08 |
| * Stskeeps looks | 20:09 | |
| Stskeeps | i think that section looks a little weird, let me just query the history | 20:10 |
| sivang | that could be linked perhaps for the real gory details from "Contribution" /me also curious for its history and age | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | hozmaster: that seems wrong - sometimes in wiki's these things sneak in | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'll go rephrase it a bit | 20:11 |
| hozmaster | ok thank i will just ignore it | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | yep, i'm removing | 20:11 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: that wiki page is obsolete completely? | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | no | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | just that particular section | 20:13 |
| sivang | ah , okay :) | 20:13 |
| sivang | I'll link it from 'Contribution' as it is the detailed description of pkg contribution | 20:13 |
| sivang | if not already so. | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 20:13 |
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| ajalkane | Anyone know if these Platform SDK errors are normal or should I do something: http://pastebin.com/zQCtNT7U | 20:16 |
| ajalkane | I was doing sdk-upgrade --next | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: yes, sadly perhaps normal.. hang on | 20:17 |
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| Stskeeps | ajalkane: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424 | 20:18 |
| ajalkane | Ok thanks | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: request instructions there how to fix it, or figure out how to get rid of the blocking issue through the information there and share it in bug :) | 20:23 |
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| hozmaster | it's possible to upload git changes to obs system? | 20:29 |
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| Stskeeps | hozmaster: sure, osc addremove, osc commit | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | that really ought to go on there | 20:30 |
| * Stskeeps files a bug | 20:30 | |
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| ajalkane | Stskeeps: Yes, I naively thought that as it's fixed the sdk-upgrade would solve it. But apparently it's coming in later SDK, so as I couldn't see immediately what to modify I'll ask there. | 20:31 |
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| Stskeeps | wb phaeron | 20:31 |
| phaeron | thanks | 20:34 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: found a new restaurant with very nice steaks :D | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: ooh, whereabouts? | 20:34 |
| sivang | I was about to go to sleep , now for real (before my tiredness gets to me ;) - good night all! | 20:35 |
| sivang | hey phaeron ;) g'night :) | 20:35 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: near (helsinki) "wtc" | 20:35 |
| phaeron | sivang: hey , good night :) | 20:35 |
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| ajalkane | very good steaks you say, now I'm interested (assuming they're big too). What was it? | 20:39 |
| phaeron | morrison's (spelling?) | 20:40 |
| ajalkane | phaeron: ah yes, that's what I suspected | 20:40 |
| phaeron | http://www.rafla.fi/morrisons/en/front_page | 20:40 |
| ajalkane | Just a month ago I wanted to go with my wife there, as it's been at least 3 years since I last went and remembered liking it. But the damn place wasn't open :-E | 20:40 |
| phaeron | it's alive and kicking now :) | 20:41 |
| ajalkane | It was alive then also, but we were too early. The waitresses were only smoking cigarettes near the door :). But good to hear it's still good, will have to try again later. | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | sounds good | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: we shall go there next time we meet? | 20:51 |
| ajalkane | Page https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/GettingStartedInFixingBugs says that first submit fix, then mark bug in bugzilla as fixed. An e-mail referenced from the same page http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00055.html seems to say you should put the bug in Buzilla as "Fixed" before sending the fix. Which one is correct? (I can correct the wiki if the e-mail, and my interpretation of it is correct) | 20:52 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: we can plan that sure :) | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: hmmm | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: does nemo process do anything about this atm? | 20:53 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: not yet. there is ability to do / check for both | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: at the moment it doesn't really matter | 20:55 |
| phaeron | usually the recommendation is developer sets resolved fixed , sends SR referencing the bug , process checks the bug is in that state | 20:56 |
| ajalkane | Ok... I'm going to add at least a clarification to the Wiki, but first a stupid question... what's "SR" in this context? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: submit request | 20:57 |
| phaeron | submit request , or promotion | 20:57 |
| ajalkane | Thanks | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | if there's abbreviations not explained, feel free to make wiki/Dictionary :) | 20:58 |
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| ajalkane | If the recommendation is to first mark as fixed and then submit the SR, then I will just switch the order in the wiki a bit. Seems like that would be the "correct" way regarding any possible changes in future, and would also solve any possible confusions with the referenced e-mail | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:59 |
| ajalkane | Stskeeps: The e-mail and this IRC conversation was the first I have seen SR mentioned, so the Wikis themselves are relatively clean from this jargon. | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | SR is a term quite often used in meego.com | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | intel's big on abbreviations :) | 21:01 |
| ajalkane | I might have seen it earlier, it's just so overloaded term to me as it's frequently used in my workplace in different context | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:03 |
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| Venemo | epic fail on my part | 21:11 |
| Venemo | got my raspberry pi | 21:11 |
| Venemo | forgot to get an SD card | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | don't you have a sd card from n800 days? :P | 21:12 |
| Venemo | nope, I joined at the N900 days and didn't feel the need of an SD card at that time | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | ah ok | 21:13 |
| Venemo | and if that wasn't enough, I don't have an HDMI monitor either | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | s-video? | 21:14 |
| Venemo | yep, there's an old TV somewhere :) | 21:14 |
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| Venemo | seems that I'll have to postpone setting up my Pi for tomorrow | 22:06 |
| Venemo | obviously I will want to run Mer on it | 22:06 |
| Venemo | will I be able to set it up into the same Mer SDK installation that I'm using for Nemo now? | 22:07 |
| alterego | Venemo: sure. | 22:13 |
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| Venemo | awesome :) | 22:28 |
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| alterego | Wow, nemo actually seems to see my Nokia wired headset. | 22:40 |
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| alterego | There's some work to be done, but I actually think I can get it to work :D | 22:41 |
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| alterego | ohmd isn't happy about it. | 22:44 |
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| alterego | So, need a load keys configuration | 22:51 |
| Aard | alterego: see query :p | 22:51 |
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