Saturday, 2012-07-28

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kallaballahi @all!01:54
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denismwhy 'raw' is recommended for use by VM, and not 'livecd'? livecd is generating small .iso06:15
phaeronlivecd / liveusb  generation was broken for a while in mic, not sure if it was fixed06:18
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denismphaeron: for Nemo - livecd's images are generated (at least for me) and works somehow in Virtual Box06:37
denismbut I will try to compare with 'raw' more, perhaps there are less bugs06:38
Stskeepsvirtualbox convertfromraw is useful there at least06:40
Stskeepser, vboxmanage06:41
alteregoqemu has those tools as well afair07:01
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lbtmorning all07:50
lbtStskeeps: phaeron: any knowledge of large data xfer from merproject.org07:52
phaeronright now ?07:54
lbtno, recently07:54
phaeronlbt: not yesterday , but I rsynced the new snapshot a couple of days ago07:55
lbtlooks like someone did a backup or we got mirrored - 2Tb in a day07:55
phaeron2TB in a day is a lot !07:56
alteregoThat is a lot.07:56
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lbtah, nm, I misread it07:58
Stskeepshow much then?07:58
Stskeepsoh not bad then07:59
lbtyeah, that's quite small08:00
lbtI wonder why I just suddenly started getting alerts about it08:00
* lbt should get coffee before reading "exceeding of traffic-report-limit" emails08:02
Stskeepstfrom hetzner?08:02
lbtyeah, it's purely information onl08:02
lbtbut phrased in a very scary germanic way :D08:02
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Stskeepsmorn rcg08:05
lbtyeah - looking at logs it's nothing to worrry about - just a single day peak - just outside normal and just over the default 'FYI' notice08:06
mikhasWe Germans like to sound scary.08:07
lbtmikhas: do you all practice in front of the mirror?08:08
dm8tbrlbt: we're born that way08:08
mikhasIn front of big crowds rather.08:08
* dm8tbr cringes08:08
dm8tbrmikhas: but yeah, natural stuff, just watch iron sky. based on true facts. :-þ08:09
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rcgmorning Stskeeps and all :)08:10
mikhasI think we just got use to the role model of evil geniuses. More to the former than the latter, but still.08:10
rcgah, now my keyboard works again within pidgin.. had to restart pidgin to get the keyboard working?!?08:10
rsadhuhi folks08:10
Stskeepshi rsadhu, welcome :)08:11
rsadhuthanks :)08:11
rsadhuI am trying to contribute to mer/nemo project08:12
Stskeepsrsadhu: if you have any questions on Mer or on how to contribute, feel free to ask at any time08:12
rsadhuand i have just started reading wikis regarding mer and nemo08:13
rsadhubut i am getting confused a little08:13
rsadhui will shooting volley of questions shortly08:13
lbtfeel free :)08:14
Stskeepshehe, sure, feel free to help edit the wiki with what we answer so others can benefit too08:14
rsadhuand i beg pardon to all, if i ask some silly questions too :p08:15
Stskeepsthat's fine, it helps us understand where our documentation gaps are08:15
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* lbt lmao .... even google don't dare show the olympic symbol :
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rcghmm.. re08:31
Stskeepstime for new irc client?08:31
rcgprobably.. every second connect the keyboard was not working08:33
phaeronlbt: trademark issues ?08:33
rcgbut one restart was due to me removing the sim card from the laptop in order to put it in the tablet08:33
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lbtphaeron: yes08:39
phaeronthe world is just becoming insane about patents and trademarks08:42
mikhasphaeron, that's assuming the world wasn't insane yet08:43
phaeronwell recently the "import and selling ban" thing is happening a lot08:43
mikhaseh, only smartphones08:44
mikhasI wanted to write a much more cynical answer but luckily deleted that ;-)08:44
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* lbt is avoiding the advertisement08:48
* andre__ wearing his Mer shirt at GUADEC conference :P08:50
Stskeepsandre__: woo08:51
mikhasandre__, o/08:51
andre__Yayay :)08:52
mikhasI wish I could have been there, or at least for yesterday's keynote.08:52
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mikhasIt would have been like a Penis Company Revival Party.08:52
mikhasI actually checked flights on Thursday :-D Price was only $4k.08:53
phaeronmikhas: tablets too08:54
mikhasphaeron, yeah well, I still dont use tablets.08:55
mikhasEven though I have one with me …08:55
mikhas(and I dont mean the N900)08:55
mikhasSo I refrain from commenting on the insanity in tablet world.08:55
Stskeepsi've grown fonder of my touchpad, very useful for early morning email check08:55
Stskeepsand its glibc based linux, so i don't feel dirty :P08:56
mikhasYou have a strange sense of cleanness.08:56
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Stskeepsonly android device i have is my nook color08:59
andre__mikhas, many new faces, and finally an acceptable amount of women. It does not feel like a complete male show anymore.09:01
mikhasoh, so no penis jokes allows, sorry then!09:01
andre__technically, some interesting talks. and hopefully a few more discussions on Gnome's problems.09:01
andre__mikhas, meeep! Code of Conduct! ;)09:02
mikhasyeah, I am waiting for an official statement to company's blog09:02
mikhasit spreads like a wildfire09:02
andre__"official"? by who?09:02
mikhasboard of directors?09:02
andre__he's right in most things.09:02
andre__(some numbers and statements are wrong though but that does not amke his points less valid)09:03
mikhaskeep in mind he *is* burnt out09:03
andre__might be, yes.09:03
mikhasso from that POV, this is a fairly objective blog post09:03
mikhasandre__, I really do feel that crowdfunding GNOME application development could be one part of the answer.09:04
mikhasthat allows to invest in QA and proper technical docs09:04
mikhasthings that hackers usually dont want to do09:04
andre__interesting. I admit I missed the talk about funding yesterday09:04
mikhasthere was some blog by ploum with a similar vision, what GNOME4 should be09:04
andre__Xan also gave a talk with a GNOME 4 idea. Mixed reception.09:05
mikhasyeah, heard that09:05
andre__I'm slowly running out of battery plus I'm giving a talk right now (though I outsourced the actual talking to Gil) so I should pay attention again :)09:06
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mikhasandre__, "Will GNOME 4.0 be built by GNOME companies with business opportunity in mind ?"
andre__mikhas: seif was also thinking about exactly that topic lately09:08
mikhasandre__, what I feel GNOME is missing is product thinking09:08
Stskeepswell they're welcome to do it with mer as bottom ;)09:08
mikhasmost things that company listed could be reduced to that09:08
andre__Stskeeps, oh I wouldn't be against ;)09:08
mikhasStskeeps, you actually have a point09:08
andre__mikhas, there is no gold sponsor this year at this conference, only silver ones.09:09
mikhasvery scary09:09
andre__maybe companies don't get enough back from Gnome.09:09
Stskeepswhile we have qt, nothing stops anybody from using the parts they need09:09
mikhasand no livestreaming, even though fluendo and collabora co-joined gstreamer efforts09:09
mikhasStskeeps, I've started to learn that good software is about concepts, not actual implementation.09:10
mikhasMost "good" software actually comes with crappy implementation, more often than not.09:10
andre__Stskeeps, personally I don't care about gtk vs. qt, but I don't have a majority in the release team :D09:10
Stskeepsandre__: yeah, just i'd be a common argument 'but mer is qt focused'..09:11
andre__NIH syndrome09:11
Stskeepscordia use disproved that09:11
mikhasStskeeps, reply with "very true, mer is --qt-- focused09:11
andre__got 4min of battery left. sorry guys, really got to shut down :)09:12
andre__see you later!09:12
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Stskeepsmikhas, yeah - and our approach to encouraging make-your-own-stack helps..09:14
mikhasit does09:14
mikhasI had this product thinking discussion with Lennart two weeks ago.09:15
mikhasWe mostly agreed on the issues, but came up with very different conclusions.09:15
mikhasBoth of us agree there's a lack of product thinking in GNOME.09:15
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mikhasStskeeps, make-your-own-stack is exactly what you want for products …09:16
mikhasInstead of advertising technology, you advertise concrete products, which then promote the technology.09:16
mikhasEasy to say, I know.09:17
mikhasStskeeps, GNOME is hurting a lot from the Unity fork, I think. One needs to accept that different UX have become a reality.09:19
mikhasBut still you will find a lot of senseless Unity bashing, and how everyone should just use GNOME Shell … even by people whom you think should know better.09:19
mikhasThey completely miss the point that Unity is still using its fair share of GNOME techs.09:19
mikhasanyways, </off-topic> ;-)09:20
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Stskeepsmorn yunta09:47
OipoMorning people.09:50
lbtStskeeps: so ...  rpm.... would you mind if I moved rpm from quilt(?) to git-patch based patches?09:55
Stskeepslbt, don't we have mer:tools to do first?09:58
Stskeepsbut sure09:58
Stskeepsi think its not quilt but tangled09:58
lbtoop - ignore the _src in before09:59
Stskeepsok, sure09:59
lbtit's not a full move to new approach - I'll just use the approach to create the files09:59
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Stskeepsam i going to be killed for asking them to be named rpm-version-it-applies-against-0001-etc?10:01
Stskeepsidle thought10:01
lbtsimply because git-patch makes them10:01
lbtI preserve the orginal patch name as the commit message10:02
Stskeepsfair enough10:02
Stskeepsand is it reproducable outside your personal system?10:02
Stskeepsin case i want to patch on top10:02
lbtso in broad terms it's the same as before with slightly different names of patch files10:03
lbtyou should be able to use git-apply and git-patch to reproduce10:04
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lbtI'm not specially documenting that as it's an interim phase10:04
lbtso 'yes'10:04
lbtbut it probably makes more sense to bounce it via me for rpm for the next few weeks10:05
lbtI'm not risking pushing the 'real' git tree to gerrit today :)10:05
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lbtI think I would like to do some backup first10:05
Stskeepswe might want either 4.10 or backport their tilde algorithm btw10:05
lbtyeah, I checked the bugs but the change would be really hard to review10:06
lbtso I figured lets do the quickbuild (which you wrote the draft for) and the filename shuffle as an easy step 110:07
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Stskeepsmorn kallaballa10:19
Stskeepslbt, yes10:19
Stskeepsquickbuild is for sure needed10:20
Stskeepsprobably top problem have with obs.. 'rebuild all the time' or 'difficult for people who just want to change a line''10:21
lbtwell, it works now ... osc build --rebuild10:22
lbtosc build --rebuild --rsync-src=acl-2.2.51 --rsync-dest=/home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILD/acl-2.2.51 Mer_Core_i486 i586 acl.spec10:22
lbtis the full line10:22
Stskeepscan't we just do /BUILD/ ?10:23
Stskeepsto simplify10:23
lbtprobably - I discussed some minor tweaks with phaeron10:24
lbtit should be even better with git-pkg10:24
lbtthen it becomes totally automatic10:24
Stskeepsif we can make it muscle memory or even read from .spec, it might be nice10:24
Stskeepsless mental usage10:25
Stskeepsotherwise, cool10:25
lbtyep - it'll just simplify to nothing10:25
lbtstep 1 is 2 commits to Tools and 1 to Core10:25
lbtTools is ready10:25
lbtI need this in core10:25
kallaballai'm trying to contribute by fixing bugs for mer and nemo and i succeded in building a virtualbox image. but when i try to follow the guide to create the sample image for my n900 i'm running into problems with mic10:25
kallaballaanyone ever encounted that problem:
lbtStskeeps: you know - I took but I'lm putting it back10:26
lbtkallaballa: lessee10:26
Stskeepslbt, i'm mobile, what bug was it?10:26
lbt"meego keyword is hardwired into __os_install_post macro [possibly arm only?]"10:26
lbttrivial but we need to touch rpm soon again anyhow10:27
lbtkallaballa: ah... I think this is the super-annoying /etc/mtab bug10:28
lbtin the SDK:  sudo rm /etc/mtab; sudo ln -s /proc/self/mounts /etc/mtab10:28
kallaballalbt: that fixed my problem. thx! btw. i encountered a few more issues following the guides. i'd like to fix the guides.10:31
Stskeepsfile bugs on bad behaviour too10:33
Stskeepslike if anything seems od10:35
kallaballaic. sure'll do10:35
Stskeepsfeel free to ask about phrasing for wiki, else just edit away :)10:36
* lbt thinks we should use the standard way to reference bugs in wiki - that way we should be able to find bug references and tidy them periodically10:36
Stskeepswiki login is same as bugzilla10:37
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kallaballaok thx!10:46
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kallaballacould anyone please give me a hint on how to build a sdk from scratch using
Stskeepshmm, package mer-kickstarter at least12:12
Stskeepssdk-kickstarter-configs is also an rpm afaik12:12
mdfeStskeeps: hi12:12
Stskeepshey mdfe12:13
mdfeis realy solved?12:13
Stskeepsmdfe, to my understanding a few releases ago12:14
mdfeI'm just asking because I have some trouble to build external modules12:14
Stskeepsok, can i see some errors?12:15
Stskeepsim on gprs, so if i drop off, others are welcome to take over :P12:17
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Stskeepsmdfe, add a ls -lR /usr/src   ibefore make12:23
mdfeI took find12:24
mdfethe kernel source is missing in this location12:25
mdfeI'm unpacking the kernel devel rpm atm12:25
Stskeepsi don't see the -devel package being installed?12:25
mdfeStskeeps: great thanks12:26
Stskeepskallaballa: feel free to wikifu12:29
Stskeepswikify that is12:29
kallaballaStskeeps: i'm on to it12:31
OipoHrm, how can I add my OBS repository to a kickstart file? The urls on the OBS website look nothing like kickstart repos.12:34
Stskeepsshow the url on obs?12:39
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phaeronOipo: you need to click on one of the repo you want which will take you to another page where you have a link to the download repo12:43
OipoGot it, thanks.12:43
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sivanghello all :)14:49
sivanghey lbt :)14:49
denismhi, I want to do a bugfix for Mer, what should be done in case of non-related build failure found by Mer Automation Dependancy build checker?14:50
sivanglbt: is there a way to run a raw image through qemu with freshly installed platform sdk? I see it has only qemu binaries for arm AFAICT14:50
OipoHey hey.14:50
denismfor example - it fails on poppler-qt building for 1 particular platform, should I investigate what's wrong there and fix it also, or what?14:51
sivanghey Oipo , how's it going?14:51
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lbtsivang: you can make a VM for minimal Mer - not sure if anyone updated GettingStarted page14:51
OipoPretty good, put up my changes a bit ago and awaiting my first review. Excited a bit.14:51
lbtdenism: yes - the rebuild is intended to catch build-time regressions14:52
sivangOipo: ah, nice :)14:52
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sivanglbt: you mean build a vm binary to run my newly created image?14:53
OipoAnd over there? Managed to freshen up on your obs-fu?14:53
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sivangOipo: well, a bit- I am concentrating on running the recent image to test something :)14:54
lbtsivang: yes14:54
lbtdenism: looking14:54
denismlbt: ok, I am trying to compile poppler-qt by myself, but how can I do it? I do not see possibility to build it:
sivangOipo: interested in running it without depedning on VirtualBox ;)14:54
phaeronsivang: do you have virtualbox ?14:54
denism(I have added manually armv6l - and it stopped to work)14:54
sivangphaeron: I can install it, if this gsm connection will let me. I'll try now as it will save time :)14:54
phaeronsivang: is it i586 image ?14:55
sivangphaeron: but if someone can show me around to it, I'll happily update the wiki how to create a mer vm14:55
OipoIf you're using the platform SDK chroot, you can "sudo mic create livecd file.ks --options here"14:55
sivangphaeron: 686 I think, as you instructed me so kindly last night14:55
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phaeronsivang: that can be run using kvm14:55
phaeronor qemu14:55
phaeronfrom the command line14:55
denismOipo: I can not install Mer to 'hard disk' from such livecd, VirtualBox says that there is nothing to boot after an 'successful' installation14:56
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OipoOh, sorry. That was directed to sivang.14:57
lbtdenism: yeah - the <repository> xml tells OBS where to get the binaries to build a package14:57
lbtyou've told it to use the Tools repo to get the binaries to build a Core package14:57
lbtlook at the other repos and copy/modify them14:57
phaeronsivang: what is your processor ? if you have kvm then you can use qemu-kvm to run the raw image in a vm, otherwise use qemu directly14:58
denismlbt: thank you, I will remove it.14:58
denismWhat is the difference between armv6l and armv7l on OBS - I do not see it by myself14:58
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lbtnb .. the <repository> tags on that page don't relate to c.obs ... sry14:59
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sivangphaeron: i have two machines, one is unfortunaltely an ULV laptop15:04
sivangphaeron: I have qemu for arm and mipsel only on the platform sdk chroot15:05
sivangphaeron: (judging by the binaries)15:05
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* lbt_away is off to buy kitten toys...15:05
sivanglbt_away: lol :)15:05
sivangphaeron: how do I get kvm to be installed inside psdk root?15:05
denismlbt: thank you very much, it is clearer now15:06
OipoWhy would you want qemu-kvm to be installed there anyway?15:06
OipoJust un-chroot and run the image from a regular term?15:06
phaeronsivang: you don't need the sdk for that15:07
sivangOipo: ah right15:07
* sivang feels stupid15:07
phaeronsivang: install it on host15:07
sivanghell, yeah :)15:07
sivangI don't know why I wanted to run it from the chroot!15:07
OipoDon't worry, I've facepalmed twice as many times as that so far :P15:07
* sivang apt-get install kvm15:08
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sivangsweet pies, it works!15:10
sivang"Is alive!"15:10
sivangokay, so it has some issues with grasping orientation, and some things just blank out when clicked15:11
sivangI guess I'll just use VirtualBox?15:11
sivangalthough this might not have nothing to do with the core, which I want to test.15:11
OipoWouldn't change much, also has some issues with orientation and not working in general :P15:11
OipoAt least, what you describe is what I experienced in VirtB as well.15:12
phaeronsivang: but you can ssh in and play with core related things15:12
sivangOipo: oh, good to know, I don't fancy installing virtual box so much :-p15:14
sivangphaeron: yep, and that's what I'll do :)15:14
sivangphaeron: so, fixing a network connection is a matter of configuring it inside the VM? I don't see extra virutal device (well, it did say somewhere it is using bridging) is there's somewhere a doc of how to configure ssh access? :)15:15
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phaeronif you setup the correct network device in kvm then the vm should get dhcp15:16
sivangphaeron: okay, thanks.15:18
alteregow00t: new dialer app has declarative plugin bundled in, you can get it from:
alteregow00t: just need to zypper in voicecall and it'll pull in the one dependency it needs. I'd also remove the meego-handset-dialer package you may or may not have installed.15:20
alteregow00t: documentation for plugin is here:
sivangyay! I'm in.15:25
sivanghmm, so apparently nemo is not in sudoers15:25
sivangokay, thanks all.15:27
sivangI'll come again later, gotta run - thanks a lot phaeron15:27
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sivangone last thing before I run, it seems that sudo is not installed (su is there) I guess I need to modify the .ks file to include sudo there, or is there a repo from which I can install it?15:31
sivang(or build from source, all is possible I guess)15:31
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phaeronsivang: ssh as root directly , and use nemo as password15:33
Stskeepsdenism, poppler-qt is a race condition that shows randomly during rebuilds15:34
sivangphaeron: right, but I want to see if the sudo issue is there (forgot the bug number), so I want to have sudo :)15:34
sivangthere it is,
denismStskeeps: wow, thanks, so for qt itself - it means that every request might take 2-3 days and die due to such race condition. I will restart it.15:35
OipoDinner with the parents. bbl.15:36
* sivang will look in repos, etc. Thanks all and have a great weekend! cheers phaeron 15:37
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Stskeepsdenism, don't worry about it if rest compiled fine, i'll kick the CI to rebuild later tonight15:41
denismStskeeps: ok thank you15:41
kallaballai found the solution solution to the mtab bug but i15:42
kallaballabut i'm not sure about the actual fix to apply.. could someone please advice me on:
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phaeronkallaballa: commented15:50
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mjadamn, I've got two adjacent black line segments on the n950's display.. anyone else had the display fail?16:09
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kallaballaphaeron: thx16:11
Stskeepsmja, that sucks, and not yet..16:11
phaeronwelcome, only imho :)16:11
Stskeepsunder harmattan i presume16:11
kallaballaphaeron: do you think i should make mic link mtab by default in a branch to have it reviewed?16:11
mjastskeeps, yep. tried reboot and other tricks16:12
Stskeepskallaballa: we have it fixed in an updated util-linux or 'filesystem' btw16:12
Stskeepsreally annoying issue16:12
phaeronStskeeps: he found another reason16:13
Stskeepsalso good16:14
kallaballastskeeps: oh... the issue i found is not related to the ks. mic has some hardcoded ignores.16:14
kallaballastskeeps: could you still please point me to the fix you mentioned, so i can compare?16:14
Stskeepsi'm on my n950 atm, so can't right now16:15
Stskeepsi'll read bug report16:15
Stskeepskallaballa: ooh16:17
Stskeepskallaballa: very good catch, file a bug against 'mic'16:17
Stskeepskallaballa: our fix wouldn't fix that, i think16:18
kallaballakallaballa: great.. im on it16:18
Stskeepsthank you16:20
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Stskeepskallaballa: i think you screwed 38416:32
kallaballakallaballa: ouch.. how?16:32
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Stskeepstake a look :)16:33
kallaballakallaballa: ooh.. you're right... typo.. thx :)16:33
Venemo_N9hey everyone :)16:33
Stskeepslo Venemo_N916:33
Venemo_N9what's up?16:34
Venemo_N9moo Stskeeps16:37
Stskeepsstuck in a traffic jam16:38
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, ouch16:39
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kallaballathx for all the help guys! cya tomorrow18:44
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OipoHmm, the Mer Automation Single Build Checker reports "rpc timeout" as the reason for failure of building my changes. What does this mean?19:43
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Venemo_N9good evening :)20:15
Venemo_N9In a week, I'll get my raspberry pi :)20:15
Venemo_N9I'm already thinking of putting Mer on it :)20:16
Venemo_N9question: does Mer contain git or SVN?20:18
Stskeepssdk parts does20:23
CosmoHillI need to use my pi20:23
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, awesome!20:30
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, having watched your presentation at Devaamo will really help me with it :)20:33
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situStskeeps: what presentation at devaamo ?20:57
Venemo_N9situ, he talked about Mer on the raspberry pi20:57
Venemo_N9and to some extent, image creation20:58
situOk.. is it online ?20:58
Venemo_N9it will be, I'm not sure when20:58
Venemo_N9probably when the Devaamo folks have the time to edit/upload the videos21:00
situOk, thanks! :)21:02
situYou run Mer on N9 ?21:03
Venemo_N9not yet, but I run it on my N95021:03
Venemo_N9more correctly, I run Nemo, which is based on Mer21:05
situI wish I had an N950. How do you find Nemo on N950 ?21:05
Venemo_N9apart from some UI glitches, it's quite okay21:05
situHow did you manage to get N950 ?21:06
Venemo_N9I participated in the developer program in 201121:06
situNokia was offering me one through Qt Ambassador program, I just didn't apply :|21:07
Venemo_N9why not, if you want one?21:07
situWell.. I had to dedicate some time to any projects on MeeGo (according to Nokia's terms), which I couldn't at that time.21:08
Venemo_N9That's unfortunate21:09
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situVenemo_N9: Can I run the vm image on Virtualbox ?21:13
Venemo_N9situ, I haven't tried, but I think you can.21:15
situI will try it later.21:16
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