Sunday, 2012-07-22

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cristiStskeeps: I compiled eglinfo on my Pi and here's the output:
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* Stskeeps turns on the coffee machine07:08
Stskeepsmorn phaeron :)07:24
phaeronStskeeps: was looking at obs scheduler code yesterday night for the feature we want to add. It's a tough one :)07:26
Stskeepsok, and it wouldn't be any easierr to do it in meta prj instead?07:27
phaeronthat's how I want to do it, I don't think there is another way07:27
easedasadd  nfc?07:29
Stskeepseasedas: opennfc might work07:29
easedaslook forward to07:31
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Stskeepsphaeron: but it does look in meta prj anyway doesn't it, to check if a package is enabled or disabled07:42
Stskeepser, shoul dbe07:43
* Stskeeps needs new keyboard..07:43
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phaeronStskeeps: package enabled / disabled is in package meta07:47
Stskeepsno, i mean07:48
Stskeepsyou can disable all packages on a global scale07:48
Stskeepsin meta prj07:48
Stskeepsor enable / disable for certain architecture07:48
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Stskeepsgood morning phdeswer :)07:49
phaeronStskeeps: yes that's where I am looking currently in the code07:50
phaeronwill start sprinkling some debug prints07:50
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Stskeepsi'm happy with <enable><package>package1</package><package>package2</package></enable> as well07:51
Stskeepsif that makes things any easier07:51
phaeronStskeeps: so at least now I can unconditionally disable packages build in a prjlink, without disabling build in the project08:33
phaeronthere might be hope :D08:33
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phdeswerhi Stskeeps08:58
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Sage_Stskeeps: so what is the status of the current stuff with systemd et friends?09:04
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Sage_in build that is09:04
StskeepsSage_: ntp bug on infra is biting a lot09:04
Stskeepsotherwise good09:05
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* Sage_ ponders if qemu update would help him to get systemd running on armv7hl image and chroot09:06
Sage_where is our qemu from?09:06
Sage_so ?09:07
* Sage_ fixes the link in packaging to point that as well09:07
CosmoHillgood moaning09:08
Stskeepslbt: ping me when awake09:08
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cristi_Stskeeps: it looks like dispmanx is a must on the raspi :(09:15
cristi_all the examples that I got to work were using it09:16
Stskeepscristi_: odd, i could swear i had it going without09:16
Stskeepsbut OK09:16
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cristi_Stskeeps: the GL initialization code needs a native window. that's usually provided by Xlib, but in its absence you can use dispmanx on the Pi09:19
cristi_I don't know how would you do it in Qt over the framebuffer device09:19
cristi_could qt provide such a native window instead?09:20
Stskeepsyes, it's possible09:21
Stskeepsi think there's patches for eglfs on qt09:23
Sage_sdk is i486?09:27
Stskeepsvery intentional09:27
* Sage_ almost again installed i586 stuff 09:28
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Stskeepslbt: i've switched* to as having ntp inside a vm just causes crazy things on build side..09:33
Stskeepslbt: also,  i think we have to either offload phost1 or move the vpn endpoint somewhere else09:33
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Sage_ok, package has two spec files, how do I build both locally with osc?09:42
Stskeepsadd spec name in end09:42
Sage_ah, simple09:43
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Sage_pah, qemu update doesn't enable running armv7hl systemd test :/09:45
Sage_well, update in review anyway ;)09:45
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Sage_Stskeeps: if you happen to get the serial output from N900 that could help a bit.09:48
Stskeepslet's get this prerelease done and then we'll check n90009:48
* Stskeeps makes a note that this mess wouldn't have happened without automatic qa09:49
rcg1Venemo_N9: ping09:50
Venemo_N9pong :)09:50
rcg1i think it's better to discuss in here instead of pm. so the info is at least archived in the channel logs.. just in case other guys are interested ;)09:51
rcg1Venemo_N9: plasma active runs fairly well on archos 101 g9 turbo09:51
rcg1there was a minor issue with the touch screen not working that i could solve by loading the correct module09:52
Venemo_N9how about Nemo?09:52
rcg1some guy from basyskom over @ #active helped a lot to find the problem and i think he also fixed that issue in the kernel config.. just can't remember his name09:53
rcg1Venemo_N9: didn't even know one could run nemo on archos?09:54
Venemo_N9I'm just asking09:54
Stskeepstheoretically possible09:54
Stskeepswe have it on panda too so09:54
rcg1i just tried plasma active09:54
rcg1Stskeeps: interesting :)09:55
Venemo_N9has anyone tried to make this theory into practice Stskeeps?09:55
rcg1Venemo_N9: the guys over @ #active also helped a lot to get wifi up and running.. might write a blog post about this to document the procedure ;)09:56
rcg1the issue there was that i needed to autostart wifi without working touch screen so i added some autostart script to automatically configure wifi on bootup09:57
Venemo_N9rcg1, I'm looking forward to that blog post09:58
rcg1gotta go for lunch though.. bbl09:59
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Sage_Stskeeps: good luck with the next prerelease. I'll be back later at some point.10:01
StskeepsSage_: thanks10:01
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phaeronStskeeps: so now something like   <build><disable repository="i586" arch="i586" package="acl"/></build> validates but the package attribute gets eaten on the way to source server10:04
phaeronin prj meta10:04
Stskeepsphaeron: fault maybe?10:05
phaeronno I modified that , the file POSTed from api to srcsrver has the attribute removed10:06
Stskeepsi think api has some kind of xml schema too10:06
phaeronsomething in the ActiveXML weirdness is eating it10:06
phaeronStskeeps: yes I modified the rng schema file so that it validates10:06
phaeronit used to reject it10:06
Stskeepsi think it might possibly manually build the xml file too10:07
Stskeepsi think i read that somewhere..10:07
phaeronanyway digging in10:07
situStskeeps: Could you review it ?10:07
Stskeepssitu: actual .spec looks fine, generally, wait for automatic review and then people manually review10:08
Stskeepsin this case, automatic review hiccuped10:08
phaeronI'll bypass the API and post to srcserver directly , and deal with api later10:08
Stskeepssitu: i'm using build power to prepare a long overdue prerelease atm10:09
Stskeepssitu: then i'll manually restart your review10:09
Stskeepsjust go happily on to other tasks :)10:09
Stskeepsand note the review URL in bug10:09
phaeronStskeeps: yeah the srcserver swallows it. it's the api that strips it. anyway now I can do the implementation in the scheduler and go back to api later10:13
Stskeepsphaeron: ok10:13
Stskeepsphaeron: thank you10:13
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situStskeeps: I want to try fixing
Stskeepsuxlaunch is where you have to look10:33
situLet me clone it.10:33
Stskeepsmaybe it be an option10:34
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Stskeepslbt: in other oddities.. why does OBS build set 'no-kvmclock' on workers?10:45
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lbtStskeeps: o/10:56
lbtseen the ntp comments10:56
lbtwe need to have an in-LAN ntp master as most machines should have limited internet access10:57
lbtwe can run it on a phost though10:57
Stskeepsyes, agreed, but temporarily in order to get a prerelease out that isn't stuck in stuck builds10:57
lbtI'm not sure why you think it's a problem though?10:57
Stskeepswhat is a problem?10:58
lbtntp on zathras10:58
Stskeepsour ntp is on a virtual machine that has no relation to real time and very often drifts up to 13-46 seconds10:58
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Stskeepsand that causes problems in our workers10:59
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Stskeepsdue to endless loops10:59
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* phaeron takes a break11:02
Stskeepsi'm happy with getting ntp on a phost eventually11:03
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lbtif it's working now that's fine11:03
Stskeepsthe no-kvmclock is awkward11:03
lbtbe aware that puppet may correct ntp conf11:04
Stskeepsi changed DNS11:04
lbtthat should do it subject to iptables11:04
* Stskeeps stares at phost411:05
lbtwhy no-kvmclock then?11:06
Stskeepswell, that's standard in obs build script it seems11:06
Stskeepsand it strikes me a a bit as odd11:06
lbtit does11:06
lbt(not surprisingly I've never heard of it but from the name I guess it prevents a paravirt clock)11:07
lbtis there anything you would like me to look at - or is this mainly FYI for when it comes time to tidy up the infra?11:10
Stskeepsi'm just FYIng atm as to log the changes i've done11:10
Stskeepsthat there's a problem and i needed to discuss11:11
Stskeepsi'm trying to get us on track to another prerelease during today11:12
lbtyep - I was just checking if you needed me to pitch in or if you had it under control?11:13
Stskeepsi -think- it's under control, but i'm having packages needing rebuild with 'bad' file timestamps in them..11:13
Stskeepsthe vpn endpoint is obviously overloaded though11:14
Stskeepslbt: how's your activities going, out of curiousity?11:14
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lbtthe way we're managing gems for non-mer is a real pita - we end up with a lot of packages11:16
lbtI'm moving us to use bundler11:16
lbtwhat I'm aiming to do is make an rpm of the bundle11:16
lbtthis means an update to any of our 3/4 gem related systems is a simple 'bundle update' and then make a single package11:17
lbtthat basically goes from mer-git -> gem -> bundle -> rpm11:18
lbtfrankly it's a horrid waste of time11:19
lbtit's boring and useless :D11:19
lbtOTOH BOSS and other things haven't been updated with new features because the hurdle to follow upstream is huge11:19
lbtremoving that hurdle is important to get some of the webui that kyyberi and co are looking at integrated to it11:20
lbtso yell if you need me.... as usual this has rabbit holes...11:21
Stskeepsyeah, i'm trying not to yell as to let you manage your own priorities11:21
Stskeepsso be careful of rabbit holes11:21
Stskeepshow would we offload phost1 a bit?11:22
lbtare you happy with phost6/7 behaviour?11:22
Stskeepswell, they're opensuse 12.1 and i'd like to somehow get upstream option for the worker naming hack, but besides that i'm good11:23
Stskeepsi think vpn endpoint is what causes lag atm11:23
Stskeepsas it's on already-overloaded phost111:23
lbtme too11:24
Stskeepsphost2 is just standing idle atm?11:24
Stskeepsexcept for imbackup11:25
lbtit's a worker host isn't it11:25
Stskeepsjust not set up with the 'new' setup11:25
lbtI was going to move fe/be there11:25
Stskeepssounds like an idea11:26
lbtand maybe make a DB server there too11:26
Stskeepshow much is 5.2e+03 seconds?11:29
lbt2 hrs ish?11:29
Stskeepsthat sounds really bizarre11:29
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Stskeepsphost4 loop complaining about qt4 qmake.conf, though i've abortbuilded it now and rebuilt qt411:31
lbtwhere are you looking ?11:33
Stskeepslive build log with screen11:34
Stskeepsthis qt may  have been before the ntp sync though11:34
situI have libXau installed but configure script couldn't find it.11:35
lbtyou removed the no-kvmclock ?11:35
Stskeepslbt: no11:35
Stskeepsif things keep on getting weird, i do so11:35
lbtphost4 ntp is not synced11:36
lbtntpq -p11:36
Stskeeps ntp42.ganneff.d .INIT.          16 u    - 1024    0    0.000    0.000   0.00011:37
lbtshould have a * in front of it11:37
Stskeepsworkers seem totally screwed up, moment11:38
situStskeeps: any hints to fix my problem ?11:38
Stskeepssitu: walk me through where you go to11:38
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situuxlaunch's configure script couldn't find libXau.11:38
Stskeepssitu: install libXau-devel11:39
Stskeepslbt: ok, can you cause a sync now? all obs workers down11:39
Stskeepson phost411:42
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lbtshould be done11:46
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Stskeepscould you check ph6 and ph7 too?11:49
lbtlooking at puppet11:50
* Stskeeps restarts ph4 worker11:50
* Sage_ ponders if support armv7hl 11:50
StskeepsSage_: pj4?11:50
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Stskeeps / cubox11:51
Stskeepsyes, but not neon11:51
Stskeepswe actually had marvell validate armv7hl on their setups11:51
Sage_but we don't have neon by default.11:51
Stskeepsshould work11:51
Sage_or do we?11:51
Stskeepswe don't11:51
Sage_ok, so I though11:51
Sage_I have kernel building atm. so next thing to do image and see if it boots11:52
Sage_2.6.32.9 so hopefullypicked up all the needed patches from the n950 :)11:52
KaIRCsuch an old kernel :p11:56
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situStskeeps: What's the easiest way to build dependencies for a package ? We don't have source repositories.11:56
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Stskeepssitu, get obs account, register on , prod lbt11:57
situI did.11:58
Stskeepsok, then use osc build11:58
situI am not sure whether my account has been enabled for obs.11:58
Stskeepslog in on to check11:59
lbtsitu: it was enabled11:59
situOk, thanks!11:59
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Sage_yey cubox kernel compiled and made proper rpm \o/12:02
Stskeepsremembered no unaligned access patch?12:03
StskeepsSage_: you should see packages.tar.gz from the wiki of cubox.. amazing lot stuff there12:07
situWhere is config file for osc ?12:08
Sage_Stskeeps: yes have that already12:08
Sage_not packaged but ready on my disk :)12:09
situFound it!12:09
Sage_Stskeeps: I'm pondering if cubox is one of the most open hackable devices from source/binary point of view :)12:12
StskeepsSage_: looks nice so far12:13
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* Sage_ is pondering if he should get 4G USB modem for faster connectiviy when not at home.12:16
* phaeron is back at it now12:19
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Sage_Stskeeps: one thing missed from the current release that I hoped to get in was the mkcal fix12:29
w00tmkcal was broken?12:31
Sage_w00t: see,63612:34
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phaeronStskeeps: almost there .. I think12:50
Sage_Stskeeps: you know if tizen uses installer shell or similar?12:50
Sage_Stskeeps: and if so what is the name of that12:50
Sage_oh, they are doing raw images12:52
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Sage_ \o/13:43
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StskeepsSage_: cool13:46
Sage_yey, and ethernet works13:47
Sage_Maybe time to rest a bit and continue some other time. But I must say that this was simplest port so far to get device booting. :)13:47
Sage_however, it might be because this wasn't the first port so routine starts to come with :P13:48
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Stskeepsnext up, dovefb and glestest13:53
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Sage_yes :)13:58
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phaeronStskeeps: I think it actually works ..14:05
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Stskeepsphaeron: cool14:06
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w00tphaeron: for the love of $deity, is there any way to switch publishing on by default on cobs branches?14:17
phaeronw00t: it's off to save resources :)14:18
w00tit's so annoying to have to go switch it on all the time14:18
phaeronosc meta prj -e is faster :)14:19
phaeronit would need a backend patch to change it , possible of course14:20
w00tI never got used to that14:20
phaeronStskeeps: it really works well now. and the  change is in srcsrerver not scheduler. not very invasive. This is cool. Now just to convince the API to be reasonable14:23
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timophgood $time_of_day14:33
* Sage_ ponders what he is missing for dove fb
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phaeronStskeeps: the annoying thing is api wants everything reflected in database. not very flexible15:17
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phaeronStskeeps: ok it works all the way from webuid and api to backend. but needs a db schema alteration :(15:31
phaeronlbt: ^^15:32
phaerontaking a break15:32
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Stskeepsphaeron: good work15:46
w00tmake: Warning: File `' has modification time 79 s in the future15:50
w00terrm.. i think something broke15:50
w00t(on cobs)15:50
phaeroncobs too ?15:55
w00tyeah that was15:55
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Stskeepslbt: phost4 finished "build qtdeclarative.spec" at Sun Jul 22 14:32:35 UTC 2012.16:34
Stskeeps2012-07-22 18:13:58: build finished 'qtdeclarative' for project 'Core:mipsel' repository 'Core_mipsel' arch 'mips' using helper linux3216:34
Stskeepsthere's something massively broken here16:34
Stskeepseither that, or we moved to russia!@16:34
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Stskeepsok, and i need to use rakefile or something to add db schema?16:46
Stskeepsand this allows me to individually enable packages, while rest is disabled?16:47
phaeronStskeeps: force pushed
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phaeronthere's an example line there. I haven't tested the db migration yet, but if you want to do it manually then : alter table flags add (package tinyblob);16:50
phaeronStskeeps: also I tested a couple of combinations of flags and it seemed to work , but fresh eyes and review is of course needed  :)16:50
phaeronlbt: get your review in gear ! :D16:51
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phaeronso much time spent on so little code .. dunno if that's good or bad :/16:55
Stskeepsit means you found a good method16:55
phaeronit wasn't as invasive as I expected16:55
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Stskeepsphaeron: thank you, i'll review it tomorrow17:06
Stskeepsjust want to get this release out..17:07
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phaeronStskeeps: no problem , there's no rush :)17:37
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cristi_w00t: you're experienced with qt, right?18:00
w00tcristi_: fairly18:01
cristi_is it possible to get a single qt build containing supporting all the available hardware as defined in the mkspecs and to be able to choose between them on runtime?18:02
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CosmoHillhey w00t18:02
cristi_w00t: I've just seen qtbase/mkspecs/devices/ has a lot of those18:03
w00tcristi_: no.. mkspecs set very much different things, might turn off entire features, etc18:03
cristi_okay, so it means we need to manually compine qt for each of those targets18:03
w00tmy guess is that Qt's compilation process is mostly optimised for the case of a vendor taking it and building it for a set of target hardware rather than what we're trying to do (cover a lot of different targets with a single build)18:03
w00tit depends what you need from the mkspec18:04
w00tit may be possible to enable it18:04
w00tbut it is a possibility, yes18:04
cristi_I will take a look in there, maybe it could be refactored in a more modular way18:05
cristi_after I saw this it all made sense :)18:05
cristi_the build that we have would not run on the raspi with platform eglfs unless we build it against the raspi mkspec18:06
w00tugh :)18:08
w00tlet me guess, it uses EGLFS_PLATFORM_HOOKS_SOURCES?18:08
w00tone way would be to "fork" eglfs to be an out of tree plugin and just build that (patched to make it work obviously)18:09
cristi_it makes sense to have all those mkspecs for various OSes and compilers, but for devices it would be nice to be able to compile all the ones for the current arch and OS into separate plugins which could be installed and then enabled at runtime18:10
w00twell, it makes sense for us18:10
w00ti can see why - with the traditional approach - it doesn't make sense18:10
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Sage_Stskeeps: wasn't the kernel src thingy already fixed for sb?18:29
Sage_ah, nm. my own fault18:31
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Stskeepsfor us it'd make sense to be able to build eglfs out of tree18:51
Stskeepsas we don't want to mix core with specific hw adaptations18:54
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cristi_Stskeeps: indeed, but then we'd have to ship qt5 as part of the hw adaptation19:00
Stskeepscristi_: well, qt5 eglfs module is 'ok'19:00
cristi_yes, but can that be built independently of the others?19:00
Stskeepsthat's what i -think- should be possible..19:01
Stskeepsit's very modularized19:01
cristi_to we'd just build that one against the raspi mkspek19:01
cristi_sounds like a plan19:01
Stskeepsi just havent had time to really play with it..19:01
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Bostikhmmmhh... eglfs pulls in EGL/egl.h, and eglfscursor uses GLES/gl2.h19:11
Bostikwithout diving too deep in the sources right now, I'd guess that real adaptation target would be the QPA element19:12
Stskeepswell, in case you need to do mods of eglfs19:12
Stskeepsto fit on a device19:12
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Bostikmmm right19:15
Stskeepslbt: pre-release .0.2 requested, please do the honors :)19:16
* Stskeeps hopes things work better this time and that by next time, we have automatic qa to stop this crap in it's steps..19:21
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* phaeron waits for the resources :D19:58
* Stskeeps offers phaeron cookies19:59
phaeronare cookies are like beer for contributors that are non-alcoholic ? :D20:00
Stskeepsi was hoping that would work you, yes20:01
phaeronworks great :)20:01
iekkumuffins for some20:01
* timoph prefers cake20:05
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vgrade2tripzero, hey21:18
vgrade2tripzero, will you be over for the automotive summit in Sept?21:18
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shmerlI filed a bug about missing QTMLocationProvider(). See
shmerlIn Harmattan it comes from libqtm-location-dev but there is no equivalent in Mer.21:37
rcg1hi shmerl21:37
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Venemorcg1, thanks :)21:40
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rcg1Venemo: yw :)21:41
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Venemorcg1, does it also have hw graphics acceleration?21:44
rcg1Venemo: there are two images... so far i made the most experiments with the one without hw21:44
shmerlAny news how Vivaldi is doing?21:45
shmerlThey were set back with no drivers before.21:45
rcg1the web site says that the hw-acelerated image does not support suspend, so this was kinda useless for me21:45
Venemohow ridiculous is that21:45
rcg1shmerl: nope... i signed up for being notified once devices are ready but didn't hear anything so far21:46
rcg1that's one reason why i got an archos 101 g921:46
shmerlSame thing. The last update was on LWN.21:46
rcg1Venemo: well, i just tried the hw accelerated image once.. but didn't play around much as the touchscreen was not working.. found the solution to my touchsreen issues a little later when playing around with the non hw accelerated image21:47
rcg1have a look at the basyskom web site and see the comments about the images for more details about the most apparent issues21:48
CosmoHillnight night .o/21:49
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rcg1Venemo: well, actually, the web site says that powermanagement is disabled.. dunno if that means that suspend does not work21:51
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rcg1i just interpreted it as this21:51
Venemorcg1, disabled on purpose or just not working?21:51
rcg1"Power Management is disabled due to bugs in binary graphics acceleration driver"21:52
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Venemoall right22:01
Venemoso, I'm not getting that archos tablet. :)22:01
rcg1well, as said, have a look at the basyskom website for more details:
VenemoI only wish I had a thing for low-level development22:11
Venemohm, they have images for tegra too, but those are even less stable22:13
Venemomaybe I should just get an exopc or a wetab? it seems to be a lot more stable on those22:14
Venemorcg1, what do you think?22:14
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rcg1Venemo: hmm.. i'd say it strongly depends on what you want to do22:18
Venemorcg1, I'm a UI guy. I'd like to be able to hack on UI things and apps without needing to mess around with the base system22:19
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rcg1Venemo: right.. sorry for answering kinda slowly... had to do other stuff here as well...22:21
rcg1well, for me the reason to get an archos g9 was to have a "development device" for plasma active22:22
Venemorcg1, no problem at all. I'm also doing other things, so I didn't notice your answering slowly.22:22
rcg1any maybe a device with which i can do basic "daily usage" like taking notes or viewing websites etc.22:22
rcg1Venemo: right :)22:23
Venemorcg1, neither of which are true at the moment. eg. I wouldn't call it a "daily usage" without hw acceleration22:23
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rcg1dunno about expoc or wetab.. reason why i chose archos 101 g9 turbo was that it seemed to be an more or less up to date hw platform..22:24
Venemorcg1, yeah, I agree, but if it doesn't actually work... :)22:24
rcg1Venemo: well, what i saw so far the ui reacts pretty smoothly even without hw acceleration22:24
VenemoI saw one at the Devaamo summit, and it was extremely sluggish22:24
rcg1one issue is that they say that it doesn't support videos so far.. but that's no use case i am actually interested in atm22:25
Venemothe guys were joking about plasma active not being so "active" :D22:25
rcg1well, i just tried some ui stuff again.. i wouldn't call it slugish22:26
rcg1animations are pretty smooth and ui reacts quite good on my actions22:27
Venemothat's nice.22:27
Venemomaybe there was an issue with that particular one then22:27
rcg1but i don't know how you would judge it as i imagine this to be quite subjective22:27
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rcg1but e.g. rotation/orientation change is right now not supported at all22:30
Venemothat doesn't really bother me at all22:30
rcg1also there seem to be some issues with respect to wlan.. you essentially need to configure it manually22:31
rcg1i see22:32
rcg1well, for the purpose i bought it it seems to be pretty sufficient.. but i was very aware that i am going to get a kind of "pre alpha" device22:32
rcg1and also keep in mind that i don't want to convince you to buy such a thing.. instead i want to give "honest" feedback22:34
rcg1that's at least what i try to do :)22:34
rcg1another point.. if you say you are going for ui development.. i don't know how much of the ui parts are shared e.g. across pasma active or nemo22:35
VenemoI'm not interested in plasma active at all22:36
Venemoif that's what you mean22:36
VenemoI was!22:36
rcg1alright, then the tablet is most probably not what you want22:36
Venemobut they managed to get rid of me22:37
rcg1i see.. how did this happen?22:37
VenemoI first saw it in maybe october or november 2011. I tested it on an ideapad and made some suggestions. it was unusable, so I switched back to meego netbook. then half a year later I had another try. it was even more unstable, none of the things I suggested were fixed, and noone seemed to care.22:38
rcg1hmm i see22:39
rcg1well, my experience so far is that the guys in #active are pretty helpful and open for comments...22:40
rcg1maybe things changed in the meantime...22:40
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rcg1e.g., they helped me very much to get my touchscreen issue solved22:41
rcg1but well.. i didn't do very much with the tablet yet.. what i did so far was essentially to install the image and get wlan plus the touchscreen working22:43
rcg1i still hope i can use the tablet on a daily basis for taking notes, browsing the web or doing email stuff.. but i think i am still pretty far away of this goal ;)22:44
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Venemothat's nice :)22:51
Venemomaybe they just had a bad day when I talked to them22:51
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rcg1Venemo: yeah, might be22:58
rcg1i'll keep you updated how my experiments go22:59
Venemothanks :)22:59
rcg1i hope i can get a development device and at the same time an at least basically usable device :)23:00
Venemothat's my hope exactly, but it seems that the barrier is higher for me :P23:00
Venemobut I'm not in a hurry :)23:01
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rcg1hehe ic :)23:01
rcg1it's good if you take your time, especially in it when you can buy a better product every two months ;)23:02
rcg1*it ~ IT23:02
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