Saturday, 2012-07-14

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* KaziKluBey is only sleeping04:55
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Stskeepsphaeron: the weird '<link project="Core:mipsel">' showed up again05:39
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Stskeepsmorn shrikrishna05:47
shrikrishnamorn Stskeeps :)05:47
shrikrishnagoing through yesterday's logs05:48
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* Stskeeps is just waking up and is impressed to see sunshine on his birthday05:53
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: your birthday today? happy birthday05:56
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: thank you :)05:56
Stskeepsyeah, turning 2805:56
timophhappy birthday Stskeeps05:57
Stskeepsthanks timoph05:57
shrikrishnamany many happy returns of the day Stskeeps :) have a bash!! =)05:58
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: any plan for birthday? maybe have some friends to celebrate?06:00
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: going with my wife for a jazz concert and a good dinner - just happy to have a weekend day where there's no launches of new companies :)06:01
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* lpotter-home launches a new company06:02
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah, jazz concert and dinner, cool. Have a good time and have a good rest06:03
Stskeepslpotter-home: congratulations :) in what business?06:06
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: last week we launched a smartphone company that uses Mer, so it was very hectic week :)06:06
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah, cool, I see the news about  Jolla Mobile, you are in the same company?06:09
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: yes, i'm associated with it06:09
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Stskeepsmorning shanxS06:12
shanxShey Stskeeps !06:13
shanxSyesterday I was able to setup a prj on OBS06:13
shanxSphaeron, helped me with that06:13
shanxSphaeron, hi06:13
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I'm very glad to hear this news especially after I heard the qt team was disbanded by Nokia.  Any plan for a new production?06:13
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: well, qt team isn't gone yet and qt-project continues06:14
Stskeepsit'll be interesting to see how development will continue on it06:14
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: hmm, but I see the news06:14
Stskeepsyeah - there's a lot of different news, and a lot of bad ones from nokia, but qt itself is a open project like mer06:15
Stskeepsand contributions continue just fine06:15
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ah, yes. and the qt community06:15
Stskeepsand so far people from nokia are still contributing06:15
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ok. qt5 is stable already or not?06:17
Stskeepsit's quite good already but they should get beta and final release out06:18
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ok. the smartphone of your company will use Mer, and qt5 will be used?06:19
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I mean for graphic framework06:19
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: i can only tell you that we'll use mer and qt, not specific versions06:20
Stskeepsit should be interesting nevertheless06:21
StskeepsshanxS: he's probably sleeping :)06:21
lpotter-homeNokia still employs Nokia devs in Brisbane, Oslo and Berlin to get the Qt 5 release out06:21
Stskeepslpotter-home: good06:21
shanxSStskeeps, yeah.. :)06:21
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ok. what about the apps for your smartphones?06:22
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: html5 apps and qml apps?06:22
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: that i can't talk about either, but qt/qml is a obvious choice, perhaps html5 too06:22
Stskeepsit should be interesting and in time we'll be able to talk more :)06:23
Khaled_Does anyone know about vala?06:23
Khaled_its basically c# on linux without a vm and elementary os uses it06:23
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps:  ok. anyway it's a good news for me  that you can do a new smartphone which use Mer06:24
StskeepsKhaled_: yeah, i've encountered vala in the past06:24
Stskeepsit's basically syntactic sugar on top of glib and c06:24
Khaled_I think its the sweet spot between web and c++06:25
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Khaled_its super fast and easy to use06:25
Stskeepsvala has it's good moments and it's bad moments06:25
Stskeepsi'm personally more of a qml/javascript fan, people can re-use knowledge06:25
Khaled_and the only I love about meego was how it was fully native linux06:25
Stskeepsbut that's just me06:25
Khaled_congrats on jolla btw06:25
Khaled_they'll use mer right?06:26
Khaled_why dont u just merge and close source the whole thing06:26
Stskeepsbecause that's not a very viable strategy06:26
Khaled_I think the apple model is the only one succesfull06:26
Stskeepswe had this discussion :)06:26
Khaled_well you're competing with apple and google06:27
Stskeepsif we merge and close source the whole thing, the advantage of using open source disappears06:27
Stskeepssimple as that, it comes down to $$$06:27
Khaled_and whats the advantage06:27
Khaled_open source killed everything06:27
Khaled_firefox and android06:27
Stskeepsthat you don't have to employ a boatload of talented linux core developers06:27
Khaled_android is so fragmented and evs hate it06:27
StskeepsKhaled_: OK, this discussion is bordering to trolling so i have to ask you to take it outside06:28
Khaled_but if u close source06:28
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* timoph hasn't seen many closed source advocators here before06:28
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* Stskeeps points to irc guidelines in topic06:29
Stskeepsin practice it really does come down to the maintainability of your stack and the need for in-house developers06:30
timophbut I guess those things are hard to see/understand if you're an end-user or app dev06:33
Stskeepsin practice you shouldn't have to care about it, yes06:33
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Stskeepsthose of us who has actually worked with open source based products know how painful it can be to having to maintain things yourself06:34
timophespecially if you're maintaining your own fork and watching from the sidelines how the original project moves onward06:35
timophlots of unneeded work06:35
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PaimenHappy Birthday Stskeeps06:41
StskeepsPaimen: thank you06:43
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lbtStskeeps: Extra good morning ... Happy Birthday07:06
Stskeepsthanks lbt07:09
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* lbt looks at the calendar and DNS07:16
lbtneed to move away from 1&107:16
lbtstill gives me nightmares07:17
Stskeepsnot a terribly good time right now to do so though, if we risk site downtime07:17
lbtyep - just keeping an eye on it07:18
Stskeepsso what are you planning for today?07:19
lbtfinish OBS work - I've polished phaeron's patch a little and commented it07:20
lbtI'm making it distinct from upstream copy ... calling it copybinary07:20
lbtthat way we have an easier patch to maintain07:20
lbtwe chatted and he's happy that's sane07:21
Stskeepsseems like the jazz concert i was going to was actually a workshop for young musicians, so i'll be going to railway museum \o/07:21
lbtthey're currently working in copybuild() function07:21
lbttrains :)07:21
Stskeepsmorn iekku07:22
lbthi iekku07:24
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iekkui could easily sleep hour or 10 more07:38
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Paimenwell I was up 5:30 after about 6 hrs of sleep07:57
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iekkugrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, it's starting to rain soon and i need to cut bushes from our yard07:59
iekkudidn't have time to do it during the week08:00
iekkuand we have collecting only during this weekend08:00
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iekkumorning CosmoHill08:04
iekkuand it started to rain :/08:05
CosmoHilljust stopped here08:05
CosmoHillno wait, still going i think08:06
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iekkuCosmoHill, it's heavy rain in here, said before you joined that i need to go out and cut our yars bushes, we have collecting only this weekend..08:07
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CosmoHillour collections move to friday, was two months before I noticed that08:08
lbtiekku: think of it this way ... your skin is waterproof - wear a T-shirt and it's kinda fun working in the rain. Just laugh at the clouds :)08:09
iekkui had planned to cut those during week.. but didn't have time08:09
iekkulbt, :D08:09
iekkuelectric cutter and me isn't good combination anyway, so..08:10
lbtlive dangerously ... (and wear rubber boots)08:10
iekkudon't have any...08:10
CosmoHillstand on a plastic box08:11
lbtuse a steak knife!08:11
iekkugood ideas, i have to admit :D08:11
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CosmoHillcan't you use manual cutters and a hat?08:15
CosmoHillI've been reading You Damn Kid and it's oct 2005 before they start colour comics08:16
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phaerontimoph: ping09:44
Stskeepstimoph, also check qa tools pages09:44
phaeronI was looking there09:45
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phaeronlbt: is cobs ill  ?10:15
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lbtphaeron: not sure...10:17
RaYmAn2/w 2410:17
phaeronRaYmAn: ?10:18
RaYmAnwas kind of supposed to be an irssi command :/10:18
Lava_Croftto go to window number 24 :)10:21
lbtphaeron: yeah .. fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck10:22
lbt*g* I like screen10:23
lbttell it to go to window 1.... network lag, tell it again ... it says "This *IS* window 1" and you can hear it mumble "you idiot"10:24
* phaeron backs away slowly10:24
lbtpossible ddos?10:25
lbtvery high latency on ssh connection10:26
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ericcwhat happen10:33
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lbtX-Fade: ping - do you know the osuosl bandwidth monitor for cobs?10:40
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* Stskeeps liked the railway museum11:42
phaeronchoo choo11:52
CosmoHillwhat kinda trys?11:54
Stskeepsold polish11:55
CosmoHillI like British diesels from the 1960s to 1990s11:55
* CosmoHill waves goodbye to his remaining chances of getting a girlfriend11:56
Stskeepsget married before letting all the crazy out11:56
CosmoHillmy mate got me into trains, he's more into them they I am11:56
CosmoHillgot a gf and now she's kinda into them too11:56
CosmoHillor at least issue supisious of him when he goes out for hours  and has a return train ticket to somewhere11:57
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rcgalright, the time in .za was over much too fast12:15
Stskeepswelcome back? :)12:15
rcgStskeeps: not yet ;)12:15
rcgjust sitting at port elizabeth airport at the gate12:16
rcgi was a little bit concerned that the time to get my flight to frankfurt in johanesburg was quite short and i didn't even got the boarding pass yet12:17
rcghowever, the gui at the checkin printed that thing for me and also assured me that my luggage will be forwarded automatically12:17
rcgso even if the luggage will not be on board it is now their problem to transport it to frankfurt :)12:17
Stskeepsso luggage will disappear out the back of the plane over the mediterranian? ;)12:18
rcgsomething like that :)12:18
alteregoJust built new compooter :)12:18
alteregoNow need to install ubuntu on iy12:18
rcgwell, when i arrived here i had to get the luggage myself and re-check it in for the national fligh from johanesburg to p.e.12:19
rcgthat was acutally my concern that it would be like that this time too ;)12:19
* lbt hates ssl12:20
lbtjust sayin'12:20
Stskeepslbt: mm?12:21
alteregolbt: https?12:21
lbtmaking crt and csr stuff ... send it to be signed...12:22
alteregoProgramming using openssl is a pita, dunno what dribbling moron came up with the API for that :D12:22
lbtalterego: just admin side12:22
lbtand the response:  An error occured signing the certificate. Please check your all your data and try again.12:22
Stskeepsalterego: i wondered the exact same thing12:22
lbtssl is designed so the NSA can slip in backdoors without anyone noticing12:23
alteregoAlso, don't expect me to do any work today, I'm pretty hungover.12:23
alteregoI was DJing last night, and the bar charges the same for a double vodka as it does for a single ..12:23
Stskeepsalterego: here, have a non-deterministic finite automaton to convert into a deterministic one12:24
chouchounegood bar12:24
lbt*g* I was DJing too12:24
chouchounehi everybody12:24
Stskeepslo chouchoune12:24
lbthey chouchoune12:24
alteregoI think I'm still a bit drunk.12:25
alteregoI'm on my second pint of coffee, this should sort me out.12:25
Stskeepsphaeron/lbt: any more thoughts on the package disabling thing? (i haven't expected any work to be done, just if you have any new thoughts)12:26
lbteven a pastie of irc notes into a bug :)12:27
Stskeepslbt: as you know, mer cross builds are done with a project with two schedulers in it, one i586, one target (arm, mips).. all i586 builds are disabled except for a few, and all target builds are enabled12:27
chouchounealterego: you should drink one beer (not more) : it helps sort things out12:28
chouchouneit gives what your body lacks at the moment ;)12:28
lbtso a package cross-build 'mask'12:28
lbtas in bitmask mask12:28
Stskeepslbt: when you do a <link project> it does not respect 1) what _meta the package it links to has, and 2) it doesn't allow you to individually enable <link>'ed packages for build12:28
alteregochouchoune: not if I'm still drunk, it'll just make me go out and get hammered again :P12:28
Stskeepslbt: so i wouldn't mind <build><enable arch="i586" package="cross-arm-gcc" /></build> in prj meta12:29
chouchounealterego: it works if you have a headake at least12:29
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lbtStskeeps: prj meta ?12:29
alteregoHeh, neah, I don't have a headache, I'm not sure I have a head at the moment.12:30
Stskeepswe can't edit <link> package's meta12:30
Stskeepsso it has to be higher up12:30
Stskeepslbt: so, you see the challenge i have? :P12:31
lbtI'm wondering if a link'ed project should have packages to provide this override12:33
Stskeepslike <link project="" > <options> </link> ?12:34
lbta link project is a real project with an attribute of link12:35
lbtbeing real it can have real packages12:36
Stskeepsso why can't i individually enable/disable some packages? :P12:36
lbtwhere a package is a small snippet of xml12:36
phaeronbecause unless you create said packages they are a "shadow"12:36
lbtthat snippet of xml has some schema elements that are only relevant when found in a project that is a link12:37
lbtso yes, those snippets will overlay the link target values12:37
lbtconceptually similar but we use pacakge xml, not prj12:38
lbtyou could make new ones and delete packages too12:39
Stskeepsright, i know all this, but it doesnt solve my problem :P12:39
Stskeepsso just trying to figure out how we could fix it so we can actually do new-type releases of cross compiled core12:46
rcgright, seems like boarding is about to start12:49
rcgStskeeps: i wish you success for coming up with a nice solution :)12:49
Stskeepslbt: untrusted still?12:49
Stskeepslbt: ok, that might be my fault though12:50
Stskeepslbt: i'm on ancient ubuntu box right now12:50
lbtit should be OK - it's verified by StartCom (startssl)12:50
Stskeepswonder why my n9 doesn't like it either12:51
Stskeepslbt: my n9 likes fine12:51
Stskeepsso does my firefox12:52
Stskeepsi dunno12:52
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Stskeepshow about the rest of you - does show up as trusted cert?12:52
rettichschnidiStskeeps: yep12:56
rettichschnidimaybe the intermediate cert is not installed correctly?12:59
kyyberiStskeeps: does not complain13:05
lbtStskeeps: try now13:06
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lbtStskeeps: works on my N9 now - I checked rettichschnidi's comment and added the chain pem to the server (thanks rettichschnidi)13:08
Stskeepslbt: much better13:08
lbtSome silly hurdles - I was using NA as the country code (since we don't specially have one)13:09
Stskeepsthis was free cert?13:09
lbtno longer signed by "Department of making things happen" though :)13:10
lbtwill do bugs next13:10
lbtalso documented in internal wiki13:11
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lbt done too13:24
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Stskeepslbt: thanks13:29
Stskeepshello membersonlyguy13:29
lbtStskeeps: was there a bug for that?13:33
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Stskeepshi qpx :)13:42
Stskeepslbt: good work, thank you13:44
Stskeepsericc: we track issues in mer project with bugs, yes13:46
Stskeepsby the thought that it's better to know about a bug than not13:46
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Stskeepsericc: a bug is an error in a program, or unexpected behaviour13:50
rettichschnidilbt: i'm using startssl as well and got the exactly same issue like a year ago :)13:50
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Stskeepsrettichschnidi: thanks for the help :)13:51
lbt... the problem was I didn't click "finish" ... expecting the page to vanish; instead it gave you the install instructions :/13:51
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qpxhi Stskeeps :p13:52
qpxhappy birthday ^^13:52
Stskeepsqpx: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?13:52
Stskeepsand thank you13:52
qpxi'm thinking about installing nemo on my n900 :>13:53
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Stskeepssure :) #nemomobile is useful in that area too. if you have any questions on Mer, feel free to ask at any time, or on how to contribute, else feel free to hang out :)13:54
qpxand just keeping an eye on #mer ~ future looks promising :)13:54
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ericchappy birthday ^^13:58
Stskeepsericc: yes, thank you13:58
Stskeepsqpx: alright :)13:58
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ericcmake  a  wish  lol14:13
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alteregonew co14:20
Stskeepsalterego: but old keyboard?14:20
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alteregonew computer doesn't even power on to post no video out, ffs, probably broken mobo :(14:20
alteregoneah, on n9 right now :/14:21
alteregoI was really looking forward to playing with it this w\e :(14:21
* alterego goes for shower14:22
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* Stskeeps offers alterego punching bag14:32
alteregodebating going in to town to get a cheap mobo14:33
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alteregoYeah, think I will get a cheepo mother board to test components. I at least need to know if it is the mobo to get RMA14:57
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alteregoStskeeps: just reading that jolla thread, I was thinking about the idea that guy had about changing window decoration for app depending on resource usage.15:11
alteregoThough this is a bit lame for normal users, maybe it would be good in developer mode?15:11
Stskeepsprobably, but window decoration is evil15:12
alteregoMuch better the developers of the app have clear indication of bad resource usage than the users :)15:12
alteregoWell, it's at the compositor level ;)15:12
Stskeepsand composition should rarely be done ;)15:13
Stskeepsdirect rendering whenever posisble15:13
alteregoWe certainly should think about making the development process more friendly.15:14
Stskeepsoh yes15:15
alteregoMaybe have a qt components mod that modifies the status bar a bit to show how the app is running whilst you're using it.15:15
alteregoCan also detect when app is minimized and have an overlay come up with resource usage whilst it's in background.15:15
alteregoRight, I'm going to nip to the shop and buy cheapo mobo, bbiab15:16
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alteregoSo, I get to the shop, and they don't have any bloody intel based MBs ...16:48
Stskeepswow :P16:49
alteregoNot my day for computer geekery :/16:50
alteregoSo I bought a DVI to VGA adapter and plugged my old workstation in to my two LG monitors and am currently installing Ubuntu on it.16:51
alteregoAnd organised an RMA for the faulty mobo16:51
Stskeepslbt: ping16:59
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* Stskeeps stretches17:51
alteregoCool, ubuntu has the qt sdk in the repo17:52
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Stskeepsalterego: so how's dialer working?18:42
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shanxSquick question: FAQ says Mer comprises of 302 packages <- does Mer mean for MeeGo-community developers?18:50
shanxSlink to those 302 packages looks broken <-
Stskeepsyes, that's broken18:50
* Stskeeps didn't even know that was there18:50
shanxSStskeeps, where can I see list of pakages ?18:51
Stskeepsgive me a moment :)18:51
shanxSsorry.. sure :)18:51
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shanxSalrighty.. thanks18:52
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alteregoStskeeps: as of yesterday: ringtone notification working, audio routing for calls working, dialing out working, dialing in working, and answer/hangup working.19:24
alteregoNeed to do a proper UI implementation and slightly extend the UI<->manager bridge API to implement all functionality.19:24
alteregoSo pretty well :)19:24
alteregoAlso need to implement libresource usage.19:24
alteregoBut I'm not going to work on it over this weekend, :)19:24
Stskeepsmakes sense19:25
shanxSwhich package is being discussed here ?19:28
alteregoshanxS: new dialer I'm working on19:28
* shanxS cant find any package by name of dialer19:28
shanxSis it something out of Mer ?19:29
alteregoNot published yet, only been working on it for 2 1/2 days last week ;)19:29
alteregoIt's for nemo19:29
alteregoOr anyone else that wants a qt-components/qml dialer, or a headless dialer.19:29
shanxSI am planning to work on <-
shanxSjust made a branch of pulseaudio in my osc19:30
Stskeepsdid you see the patches?19:30
alteregoYeah, very brave, good luck! :D19:30
shanxSbe prepared to answer many stupid questions :P19:30
StskeepsshanxS: try a lower prio one?19:30
Stskeepsat first19:30
shanxSsure.. can you please point out one ?19:30
* alterego installs qt-sdk and mer-sdk19:32
alteregoProbably install scratch box.19:32
shanxSalterego, is that for me ?19:34
StskeepsshanxS: try as an example19:35
Stskeepsjust to start somewhere19:35
shanxSStskeeps, cool.. thanks :)19:35
* shanxS dives in...19:35
iekkuStskeeps, couldn't stay away today?19:36
Stskeepsiekku: been away most of day :P19:37
alteregolbt: wiki being slow again?19:38
iekkuStskeeps, that's good :) and now you can celebrate by being here19:38
* alterego really hopes he gets a leap motion SDK ..19:39
Stskeepsalterego: i've started build machinery, so that's maybe why19:39
Stskeepssame phost19:39
alteregoAh, m'kay.19:39
* alterego ponders setting up his own obs19:40
* Stskeeps tries to load an android lib on top of glibc for fun and profit19:42
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* alterego wonders if it's possible to use mer-sdk sb2 to compile for Harmattan and Fremantle19:46
Stskeepsprobably too modern kernel19:47
Stskeepsyou'd have to use their toolchain19:47
Stskeepsmodern compiler19:47
Stskeepsbut otherwise, yess19:47
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alteregoNot really that interested anyway :D19:51
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* Stskeeps adds bionic people to his list19:53
alteregoI didn't realise we could use imager for mer.19:53
alteregoYeah, the online interface to mic19:53
alterego"meego image creation service"19:53
alteregoLooks like you, vgrade and lbt use it :P19:53
Stskeepsah, yeah19:54
StskeepsIMG's a nice tool19:54
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phaeronspeaking of which where did you file that enahncement request Stskeeps?19:56
DocScrutinizer05alterego: always seemed to me as if even fremantle and harm are not playing nice with each other in one SD environment19:58
Stskeepsphaeron: mint somewhere19:58
* Stskeeps can't recall19:59
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phaeronStskeeps: ?20:10
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shanxSokay, so here I am. I have made a iproute package, got a clone form git, edited the spec file... what next ?20:39
shanxSshould I build it as mentioned on contribution page.. or20:39
shanxSshould I create a diff and upload on bugs page ??20:40
shanxSbtw, I am talking about this bug <-
shanxSanybody in here .. ?20:43
phaeronshanxS: diff on bug is not useful20:44
shanxSphaeron, you always come to my rescue \o/20:45
shanxSso what should I do ?20:45
phaeronshanxS: you need to continue with the contribution guide, make sure it builds, and then submit a merge request in mer gerrit20:45
shanxSalrighty.. I'll do that20:46
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shanxSsomething screwed up 'osc chroot' command..21:17
* shanxS is feeling sleepy21:17
shanxSI'll deal with it once I catch some sleep... *yawns*21:17
shanxSthanks everyone for helping.. good night :)21:18
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alteregoDocScrutinizer05: I've had them all working fine, even M4 ..22:01
alteregoMaemo SDKs in sbox22:01
DocScrutinizer05ok, then I'm mistaken22:02
DocScrutinizer05quite possible22:02
DocScrutinizer05since I deduced from stories told by e.g. mohammadAG22:02
alteregoHe whines about everything ;)22:03
alteregoIf it's not QML it's sbox :)22:03
DocScrutinizer05actually he didn't whine, but build fecked binaries for fremantle since he installed harmattan to same SB22:03
DocScrutinizer05might be unrelated though22:04
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alteregoI think what he may have done is install harmattan over another target.22:06
alteregosbox is delicate, that's for sure.22:06
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* alterego ponders the benifits of building mer-sdk images.22:24
alteregoSo, I can package my products specific stuff and make a completely self contained image for my developers. Coooool.22:25
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