Monday, 2012-07-09

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shmerlAny idea if QTMLocationProvider is missing somehow in the Mer SDK (Vivaldi target)?00:19
shmerlI got this error:00:19
shmerl../../dom/src/geolocation/nsGeolocation.o: In function `nsGeolocationService::Init()':00:19
shmerl/home/hillel/build/mozilla/mozilla-central/dom/src/geolocation/nsGeolocation.cpp:554: undefined reference to `QTMLocationProvider::QTMLocationProvider()'00:19
shmerlcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status00:19
shmerlqt-mobility-devel is installed.00:21
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shmerlFound this:
shmerlLooks like QTMLocationProvider is missing in Mer's qt mobility.00:49
shmerlIs there any way around this?00:49
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iluminator105i guess my question got answered01:09
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iluminator105is there way to install mer on maemo n900 without having to lose your /home and data01:31
wmaroneif you consider keeping it on an SD card acceptable, yes01:33
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iluminator105wmarone, permission to pm02:12
wmaroneno need to PM, I'm sure02:12
iluminator105well i was thinking of puttin meego 1.3 on it , instead of nemo b/z its more tested02:13
wmaroneI don't know if it's more tested...02:13
iluminator105nokia just released 1000 fixes for it meego 1.302:14
wmaronethat's for the N902:14
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wmaronewhich isn't "meego" proper02:14
wmaroneand won't work on the N900 at all02:14
iluminator105i am not following can you explain02:15
wmaronethe PR 1.3 release that Nokia just did02:15
wmaronewas not for the N90002:15
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iluminator105cant i install uboot-pr13 on maemo and install nemo while maemo is running?02:21
wmaroneno idea, but if it's to the internal memory I doubt it.02:22
* wmarone plays around with nemo on SD cards02:22
iluminator105so you dont recommend nemo as daily use on internal sd card02:23
wmaroneI still use maemo 5 on my N90002:23
wmaroneno pressing reason to change, might if this JollaMobile things produces a replacement :)02:23
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iluminator105how stable is nemo?02:30
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wmaronedunno, haven't looked at the latest releases02:33
wmaronebest thing to do is load it on an SD card, boot the kernel via USB, and try it out02:34
fosstuxHi! Does Nemo come with a calendar app and sync with google calendar?02:34
wmaronedon't think so02:35
wmaroneNemo is very much a demonstration on how to use Mer in a product02:35
shmerlNemo lacks decent e-mail client, which is critical (at least for me)02:35
shmerlSo without one I wouldn't recommend it for daily use,02:36
wmaroneit is not, itself, a full-fledged product and I don't see it really being pushed that way (unless someone wants to actually do that, and I imagine they'd be welcomed...)02:36
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shmerlYou can give it a try in x86 VM (in VirtualBox) too see for yourself, before installing on any ARM devices.02:43
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Bostikmatt groe..04:17
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Stskeepsgood morning sonach04:19
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sonach_Stskeeps: good morning :)04:19
sonach_have not been on this irc for several days :P04:20
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Stskeepssonach_: got an url for you, sec04:23
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Stskeepshope that'll help convince people about mer too04:24
sonachStskeeps: Good news :)04:25
Stskeepsnotice 'mer core' mention :)04:26
sonachStskeeps: "他們的 MeeGo 將會結合 Qt、Mer Core 和自家的技術去開發" means: Their MeeGo will integrate Qt, Mer Core and there own technology,04:27
sonachyes, so this 'MeeGo' is based on Mer core,04:28
Stskeepsmeego is an idea/dream anyway04:28
sonachStskeeps: I think there are some members of Jolla on this IRC?04:29
Stskeepssonach: me, sage, iekku.. etc. jolla has been contributing in stealth for a while04:29
Stskeepsand will continue to contribute04:30
sonachCool :)04:30
Stskeepsas a vendor for mer, making sure it's a sane mobile core for many companies to use04:30
sonachso NEMO is the UX?04:30
Stskeepsjolla has it's own UX04:31
Stskeepsmore specific about technologies i can't say yet04:31
sonachok, hold on :)04:31
Stskeepsyeah, wait and see. but mer a nnd qt are core technologies04:34
Stskeepshas been amazing feedback on it, around the world04:36
* Stskeeps stretches04:48
Stskeepsanother day coming :)04:48
Stskeepslbt: now wiki has started stalling04:56
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iluminator105Stskeeps, PR 1.3 what does the PR stand for05:11
Stskeepsiluminator105: public release?05:11
Stskeepsdunno, ask nokia :)05:11
iluminator105i thought it meant peer review...LOL05:11
KypeliGood morning.05:15
KypeliThings are moving fast for Mer...05:15
KypeliNow that weekend is over, the speed might even increase.05:15
iluminator105this is good news this jollamobile, meego was too good to be a ronin05:18
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iekkuis wiki down?05:40
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Stskeepsiekku, yes05:59
jrayhawkHuh, that Jolla thing is pretty cool.06:04
jrayhawkNice to see the former Nokia employees still believe in the product line even if management doesn't.06:05
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Stskeepshello wrea, imunsie :)06:31
jrayhawkAnd if push comes to shove, I'm sure you guys can kickstarter up some funding.06:37
Stskeepsjolla has investors, it's not just a hippie commune :)06:37
Paimenhmm why do I have hippie in hilite, but well Jolla is really exiting new start for open phone platform06:38
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StskeepsPaimen: and given it's mer-based and contributing to mer, it is a very good foundation for other projects too06:39
Paimenindeed, making Mer known to world is never bad thing06:39
Paimengetting visibility will tell people that mer is viable option as core also good for Qt too06:40
Paimenbit bafled about tdriver and qa, there seems to be spot to fork that and make it better with qt506:40
Stskeepsstill work to be done in Mer, like with any software06:41
Stskeepssome things more glaring than others06:41
Paimenyup, QA and benchmarking has won my heart so I'll look into that and I'm thinking that I'll talk to my bosses that could we do something with tdriver as it seems Nokia has abandonned it06:43
Paimenwell it is not official, but last update is from april and no comments to our commits to memorysize bug06:44
Stskeepswe're integrating it in mer atm, ruby's a bit of a pain06:44
Paimenit is06:44
Paimenalso qtquick 2.0 support is really behind. we have some dirty fixes to that but nor committed to anywhere06:45
Stskeepscontributions welcome06:45
Stskeepswe have similar qtquick2 stack as nomovok because of bostik's good work, so06:45
Paimenwell at least heap size fix is available here:
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Venemo_N9morning :)06:46
Paimenand it is great news to hear you try to take tdriver onboard06:47
Paimenmade my monday better already :)06:47
Stskeepsmeego QA tools delivered a lot of very useful stuff06:47
StskeepsPaimen: how were you involved with it, out of curiousity?06:48
timophI think E-P is working on it06:48
Stskeepsif you were06:48
PaimenStskeeps: not involved to tdriver, just modified it inhouse to use in few benchmarking projects06:48
Paimenbasically we have created some fancy stuff so we can calculate fps and cpu/gpu usage and mem count06:49
Venemo_N9are you aware that the battery indicator of Nemo doesn't work on the N950?06:49
StskeepsVenemo_N9: yes06:49
Stskeepswe're also packaging traditional good tools for debugging/perf work06:49
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Venemo_N9is it a driver issue or a gui bug?06:49
StskeepsVenemo_N9: lacking backend for n950/n9's bme06:49
PaimenStskeeps: like
Stskeepsiekku: wiki's up again06:50
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Venemo_N9Stskeeps, hm. is it something a mere simpleton like me can fix?06:50
StskeepsVenemo_N9: not really and even i have problems..06:51
timophStskeeps: have you noticed
Stskeepstimoph: hmm no06:51
PaimenStskeeps: what version of tdriver you are currently integrating?06:51
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StskeepsPaimen: Sage_ would know06:51
timophI was just browsing through garage and bumbed into that06:51
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, what's the issue with it?06:51
Stskeepstimoph: bug for integration please (severity=task)06:51
Sage_Paimen: a moment06:51
StskeepsVenemo_N9: something needs to communicate with bme06:51
timophStskeeps: will do06:51
Sage_alterego: did start doing something around the ruby already btw?06:52
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, yep, I get that06:52
Paimentimoph: oh that glmemperf seems like something I need to checkout06:52
Stskeepstimoph: thank you06:52
Venemo_N9but what's the difficulty of implementing that something?06:52
StskeepsVenemo_N9: i think maybe the open source libbme will work06:52
Stskeepsbut i'm unsure06:53
Venemo_N9is it documented?06:53
Sage_Paimen: 1.5.3 was the version I tried.06:53
PaimenSage_: ok06:53
Sage_Paimen: my packages are in
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PaimenSage_: ok thanks06:54
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PaimenSage_: out of curiosity what ruby problems did oyu encounter?06:55
timophStskeeps: 42506:56
Stskeepstimoph: thank you06:56
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, I'll have a look at that.06:57
Sage_Paimen: none so far. Just ran some very basic stuff06:57
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, is bme in Mer the same as the one in Harmattan?06:57
StskeepsVenemo_N9: .. ish06:59
PaimenSage_: ok, and well if you just run qttas stuff on mer ruby is not needed afaik06:59
StskeepsPaimen: we use it within sdk, which is also mer-based06:59
Paimenah ok, that is different story then06:59
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, hm. ok :)07:00
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StskeepsPaimen: but yes, it's a blessing it's not going on device..07:00
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Paimendamn July is bad month to be at work, everyone is on vacation07:01
Stskeepswhat, it's july? ;)07:01
Sage_Paimen: what is vacation? :)07:02
PaimenSage_:  :P07:02
Venemo_N9Paimen, at least there's silence and peace07:02
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PaimenVenemo_N9: well I work mainly from home so silence and peace is default07:02
Paimenwell as much as you can have with 4 dogs07:03
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PaimenSage_: but well I try to push that we could finally update our tdriver to 1.5.3 and push our qtQuick 2.0 fixes somewhere at least07:04
Paimencurrently we use 1.4.x something just because we haven't got time to merge to newer and it "works" for us now07:05
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Venemo_N9Paimen, ah, ok07:05
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Venemo_N9anyway, I arrived at work, and I have a planning meeting ahead07:11
Venemo_N9so ttyl :)07:11
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lbtmorning all07:31
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Paimenmorning lbt07:37
lbtI see in the backlog that you're looking at tdriver07:38
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Paimenwell, it is just tool I like to use and we have some fixes to it07:39
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lbtjust wondering how to make sure it's available in Mer07:39
lbtwe need to ensure ruby is easy to live with07:40
Paimenand maybe I can contribute some information to wiki also how to use it, when you have it in mer also I can try to help you on making it to Mer too, altought Ruby part is not something I know lot of as I have used those on my ubuntu host and our devices has just ran qttas07:40
lbtright - we want to use it in the SDK07:41
Paimenhmm too long sentences and too few caffein07:41
Paimenlbt yup so Sage_  told me07:41
lbtOK - good07:41
lbtso we can talk to E-P about where in the wiki to put things ... I'm trying to keep wiki pages small and focused to one topic07:42
Paimenlbt: but I try to talk to someone in here to merge our qtquick 2.0 fixes to 1.5.3 and commit them somewhere you can snatch them07:42
* Sage_ is interested if there was conclusion of ruby packaging yet for us. 07:42
lbtthe best solution is to use the contribution07:42
Paimenwe have one little fix to heap memory count already committed if you guys want to look into it07:42
Sage_In my opinion if we could just first agree that we juse rubygem-* or something else for package names the package content could be improved later. It is not so bad atm. but that is just my opinion. :)07:43
lbtwe can take things as patches we carry in Mer too07:43
lbtSage_: yeah, I apologise - really crappy weekend07:43
Paimenas it was documented to return memory in bytes and it was actually returning page count, not a big deal, but annoyance07:43
lbtPaimen: ouch07:43
Sage_lbt: no need to apologise. That is called life :)07:44
lbtSage_: power cuts all day saturday, disk failure, PSU failures, grub cockup.... and jolla buzz07:44
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Sage_heh, I only broke a lamp from tractor while moving some stuff nothing else ;)07:45
Paimenwell I banged my head to desk on Sunday and now I have nasty cut and bruise07:45
* lbt is not alone \o/07:46
lbtStskeeps: FYI ... wiki died due to oom - see messages ... puppet, myslqd and then apache ....07:48
lbtok ... coffee07:48
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lbtSage_: OK .. for ruby I'll say lets take the suse approach - we have to use that rubygem packaging in all the OBS and BOSS stuff anyhow08:03
Sage_lbt: ok. That is fine with me.08:05
lbtgood, gives you and alterego an easy place to port docs and policies from :)08:06
phaeronStskeeps: so I refactored the code , and it copies faster now , and no "broken" packages08:08
Stskeepspatch(es) welcome08:09
lbtphaeron: nice08:09
phaeronlbt disabling publishing and building makes it faster08:09
lbtie it stops sending events?08:09
phaeronit stops calculating some stuff08:09
* lbt should look at code :)08:09
phaeronI'll push the code now08:09
Stskeepslbt: is OOM coming from external pressure or internal VM pressure?08:10
lbtactually, much as I want to, I'll leave this to you + Stskeeps and get on with some HW adaptation+SDK work ... on the condition you have enough comments that I can understand it later08:10
Stskeepsie, is it dynamic RAM allocation on vm08:11
lbtStskeeps: internal08:11
lbtalways for VMs08:11
Stskeepslbt: ok, but why does it start to happen now..08:11
Bostikhmh, you've been flashing me...08:11
lbtI'm guessing puppet - I didn't spend time debugging ....08:11
StskeepsBostik: just discussing tdriver and qtt08:11
lbtBostik: what flashes you? Qt ?08:12
BostikPaimen: just to toss an idea in the winds - would it help if I taught myself how to properly package ruby gems for systemwide use? :)08:12
Stskeepsbostik, probably08:12
Bostikbingo, it's my name08:12
lbtBostik: *g*08:12
lbtBostik: as for rubygems - what would be good is to nag Sage_ and alterego and beta-test their packaging policies08:13
lbtideally they'll point to suse docs and just say how to do it for SDK08:13
lbtBostik: probably better for them to be delivering to someone who's waiting for them (pressure always helps focus)08:14
PaimenBostik: I think it would help Mer, in our current setup we do not use ruby on client/hw side just on host that is ubuntu08:14
Sage_lbt: I'm waiting for myself atm. Would like to have this ruby thing done today :)08:15
Paimenbut if we want to use Mer SDK in somepoint and it has TDriver it would be blast08:15
lbtPaimen: that's the goal08:15
lbtwe have testrunner-ui in there already08:16
Paimenyep, I really need to dig into Mer more proberly, well 4 days to vacation and then 2 weeks more or less own time08:16
Paimenand who knows how long after that08:17
lbtI think the risk around Mer has dropped several notches now08:17
lbtooh I found a bug in something08:17
Sage_lbt: <- this is all... ?08:18
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lbtmy ExoPC was running an infinite QML shader demo and it's crashed with a frozen screen this am08:18
lbtSage_: yep08:19
lbtgem2rpm may need to have a modified template08:19
lbtfor our spec file08:19
Paimenlbt: yup, risk is reduced, but mer to realize into projects for us might take its time08:20
lbtyes, still at the proposal stage?08:20
Stskeepshey mikhas :)08:20
lbtmikhas: speak of the devil08:20
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iekkuhi andre__08:21
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Paimenlbt: I do not know, I just work here08:21
Sage_lbt: I expected a much more complex thing :)08:21
mikhashi there08:21
mikhasexciting weekend, even if I was mostly offline.08:22
lbtSage_: this is why I like gem2rpm .... it does a lot for us ... but it needs time checking it's all OK with Mer08:22
Stskeepsmikhas, indeed08:22
Sage_lbt: well what I looked quickly about the output it looked quite ok. Just couple of minor things that we might want to change, but even those shouldn't be required.08:22
lbtand we skip spectacle for these08:23
lbt(and note that in policy)08:23
lbthappy to just have task bugs for minor things too - ideally noted on the ruby page08:24
Stskeepsphaeron: thank you08:24
lbtphaeron: checking for comments...08:24
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lbtphaeron: that didn't take long08:24
Stskeepsmorn slaine08:25
phaeronlbt: it's very much 2am hacking08:25
phaeronso give me a break :D08:25
lbtphaeron: you? you astonish me *g*08:25
lbt*sigh*  /usr/bin/qmlscene qml/main.qml  just hangs after a few hours08:26
Stskeepslbt: dmesg?08:26
Stskeepslbt: the mesa drivers are not up to date anyway08:26
slainemorning folks08:27
lbtOK - I did put some shader stuff in - so that fits08:27
Stskeepsslaine: saw news over weekend?08:27
slaineSaw the news alright, not read any details yet though.Sounds promising. Are there details ?08:28
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lbtnot many, confirmed they're using Mer as the core08:29
slaineNow that is awesome08:29
lbtbuilding buzz around the meego community by using meego-based08:29
Stskeepsslaine: .. and has been contributing for a while in stealth :P08:29
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phaeronStskeeps: I saw some stuff that worries me. some packages that I deleted still have binaries around and are used to resolve things in the source project08:30
slaineMy understanding was that these are former Nokia Meego/Harmattan team members, is that right ?08:30
pohlyStskeeps: which news?08:31
Stskeepsslaine: sure, and some people you know from here, including me08:31
slaineThat's great news08:31
iekkuStskeeps, iäm there also08:32
iekkuklajgäölsa aäsgjäölagjs08:32
iekkuslaine, i'm in jolla also08:32
Stskeeps'meego' mention is a bit wobbly, agreed, as it's really mer, which is made clear in press release..08:32
slaineMan, you've just made my month :-D08:33
lbtmakes *total* sense - if they hadn't used #meego-based then they'd have missed 99% of their audience ... marketing :)08:33
iekkuhope we soon make your year :P08:33
slaineiekku: Yeah, you have to earn that bit still ;)08:33
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Stskeepsanyway.. back to work08:34
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Stskeepsproject copy patch to test08:34
phaeronStskeeps: I'd appreciate a test with a clean source project. mine  had stale stuff lying around and I removed the qt stuff08:34
Stskeepsphaeron: what branch is this on?08:35
Stskeepsok, on top of transparent08:36
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Stskeepslbt: restarting fe..08:41
lbtdid you have a shell08:42
lbtand did dmesg tell you anything ?08:42
Stskeepscouldn't get into ssh08:42
Stskeepsjust stalled08:42
phaeronneeds more ram ?08:43
Stskeepsfe at 1,5gb atm08:43
Stskeepsand swap08:43
Stskeepsit scares me how much it uses08:43
phaeronruby on rails + apache ..08:44
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mikhasStskeeps, so any plans to replace X11 soon-ish?08:50
Stskeepsmikhas: aren't we all going that direction..08:50
Stskeepsmikhas: i'm personally interested in maliit on qml compositor08:51
mikhaswe need to get the wayland protocols in shape first08:51
Stskeepsdid you see w00teh's videos?08:51
mikhasI mean, sure, for Qt5, we can still just keep using input method modules08:51
mikhasbut I'd really like to get rid of that08:51
Stskeeps , ,
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Stskeepslag problem is known and caused by fbcon08:52
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Stskeepsphaeron: POST
Stskeepsin progress08:54
phaeronyeah if you tail the logs you'll see it goes faster .. I hope I didn't mess up the rebase08:55
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Stskeepsok, massive thunderstorm coming here..08:56
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Stskeepsso if i vanish, that's why :)08:56
jussithunderstorms are awesome08:56
Stskeepshello donza :)08:56
donzaStskeeps: hello08:56
* jussi waves to Stskeeps08:56
Stskeepsgood monday jussi :)08:56
jussiStskeeps: no08:56
Stskeepsdonza: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?08:56
donzacuriosity :)08:56
jussiStskeeps: 7 hour drive home + 3am + 8am start is horrible...08:56
Stskeepsjussi: ouch08:56
Bostiklbt: alright, I'll take the packaging policy out for a spin then (not now, but soon)08:57
Stskeepsdonza: sure :) if you have any questions on Mer, feel free to ask at any time, or if you're curious on how to contribute, else feel free to hang out and observe, learn :)08:57
jussiBostik: you couldnt just stay away, could you :P08:57
donzaStskeeps: thanks!08:57
Bostikjussi: being on vacation and being totally in the dark are two different things08:58
lbtjussi: he just knows where it's cool to hang out08:59
* lbt is bored watching dd and decides we need pv or ddrescue for SDK09:00
Stskeepslbt: +109:00
Stskeepspv is essential09:01
Stskeepsbug please09:01
PaimenBostik is always in the light09:01
jussiPaimen: he isnt far enough north for that09:02
Paimenbut if he has been bitten by radioactive firefly?09:03
jussiahhhhhhhhhhhhh! thats why he always glows :P09:03
jussior maybe its that stuff he rubs into his face :P09:03
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Stskeepshello j_h :)09:08
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: do you have any idea with MeeGo Policy Framework is it already in mer or not?09:12
lbtwiki is being really slow :(09:12
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: we have it in nemo09:12
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: what do you need it for?09:12
Stskeepslbt: same machine as fe, isnt it09:13
lbtyeah, but phost is idle09:13
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: for mutimedia resource manager now, maybe other resource manager in the future09:13
lbtweb (reverse ssl proxy) is also idle09:13
lbtno RAM issues09:13
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: perhaps - do you know prolog? :)09:13
Stskeepslbt: I/O ?09:13
phaeronlbt: ram or power issues on phost ?09:14
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: no, I donot know prolog09:14
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: resource policy framework uses prolog programming languages for rules09:14
Sage_lbt: I'm failing to update mer sdk btw.09:14
lbtSage_: openssl ?09:14
lbtdamn it09:15
Sage_or actually ca-certificates but probalby related to openssl09:15
lbt2 bugs09:15
lbtone in my script which copies host certs to sdk09:15
lbtis the other09:16
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yeah, ok. you use it in nemo? for what function?09:16
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: phonecall adjustment, headphone plug plugging, speaker vs not speaker, etc09:16
Stskeepspriorities in cpu..09:16
alteregoSage_: no, was waiting about that, looking in to ofono & dialer nemo issues at the moment.09:17
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I have a quick with the doc of it, but it says the function is not complete, right?09:17
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: it might not be09:18
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: it works pretty well on n9xx though09:18
Sage_alterego: ok, well I start doing the gems with gem2rpm and doing new push for that.09:19
Sage_lbt: then it would be accepted right?09:20
alteregoOkay, cool09:20
lbtsimple docs too would be good09:20
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: ok. is it a alone project, or it is already in qt sdk?09:21
jussiI hope someone fixes the damn browser, the one on my n950 doesnt do mobile g+, only basic mobile and desktop09:21
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: standalone09:21
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I found many modules in qtmobility have been merged into qt509:22
alteregoAlso, why do non of the apps support multi-touch gestures?09:22
lbtis there any way to chvt on the N900 from the keyb?09:22
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: yes it has09:22
Stskeepslbt: don't assume chvt will work09:23
alteregoThe image viewer, the browser .. They should all have punch to zoom09:23
Stskeepsthere's not always a fbcon09:23
Stskeepsand sgx.. erm09:23
lbtOK - I didn't think so .. worth checking09:23
leinirpunch to zoom... ;)09:23
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Ok, thank you09:24
Sage_lbt: :nod: doing that as well09:25
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Stskeepsphaeron: faster, for sure: but:
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lbtsomething is screwy on the wiki - things happening in 20s bursts09:33
lbtis anyone else seeing a wiki problem ?09:33
lbt(I have odd vpn/nw settings as part of admin so it's a way to check it's not that)09:34
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lbtnope? OK I'll leave it until later then09:35
Stskeepslbt: i dont se anything odd..09:36
alteregoseems fine to me too09:36
lbttakes me 80s to login :)09:36
Stskeepslbt: can you help interpret that pastie?09:37
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Stskeepsmorn shrikrishna09:38
lbtit's a bit context-less09:38
shrikrishnamorning Stskeeps :)09:38
Stskeepslbt: it's just after re-enabling builds for a project09:39
Stskeepslbt: that has been prjcopyed to09:39
Stskeepsfrom scheduler_i586 log09:39
lbtah, in log?09:39
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Stskeepshello asd / Guest2574709:42
Guest25747meego  is   good  os!09:42
Stskeepswelcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?09:42
lbtI think ! is md5 changed09:42
Stskeepsok, so maybe we should debug on what changed09:43
Guest25747i  want to  make  a  meego  sdk09:44
phaeronStskeeps: ncurses is the only package , or just one you picked09:44
Stskeepsphaeron: first one09:45
StskeepsGuest25747: install or help make one?09:45
Stskeepsphaeron: ie, first one mentioned in log09:45
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Stskeepshello saya_ :)09:45
phaeronStskeeps: at this point I had similar output and wasn't sure if it was me copying the messed up project or something else09:45
Guest25747i  make  a   sdk tizen too09:46
Stskeepsphaeron: adding some debugging to the ! stuff09:46
phaeronyeah I am not sure which meta it is talking about. pkg meta change or the meta in the backend ?09:47
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StskeepsGuest25747: you can grab qt sdk, that's a good start09:49
phaeronStskeeps: in the new patch I copy :full/*.meta as well but they get deleted , or rejected afaics09:49
Guest25747@Stskeeps   thank  you09:50
Guest25747qt sdk  can  run in  windows?09:52
Guest25747or arm?09:52
Stskeepslet's just say windows09:53
ZogG_laptopi think someone had qt sdk on n900 =)09:53
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Guest25747can  the qt  sdk  run  in  webos--------palm pre3:)09:53
StskeepsGuest25747: SDK runs on a pc usually :)09:54
Stskeepsmorn stefan_schmidt_w09:54
stefan_schmidt_whi Stskeeps09:54
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Guest25747see you   i   go to lunch09:55
ZogG_laptopbtw Stskeeps, if i develp for mer, only target i can develop for is Nemo - right?09:56
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK, sup09:56
StskeepsZogG_laptop: nop, there's other targets too09:56
Stskeepsplasma active, nemo, .. mer in obscure other configurations09:56
* alterego jumps in shower09:56
M4rtinKZogG_laptop: hi :)09:57
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, oh, vivaldi is using mer as base? But i mean, as far as mer is core only, i need to rebuild and optimize my app for each target separetly?09:57
shrikrishnaZogG_laptop: vivaldi has plasma, which is based on mer, so yeah,... :)09:58
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StskeepsZogG_laptop: we don't really push a common story, but if it's qt..09:59
shrikrishnaoh.. dint see the second part of the question =)10:00
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, the main question is "I do not develop for Mer but for specific Mer based distro as Nemo for example"10:00
lbtZogG_laptop: that's the answer, yes10:02
lbtand if those distros share a technology, it makes it easier for you10:02
lbtCordia, Plasma and Nemo use different UIs and won't have a common app story10:02
lbtwhilst Nemo and Harmattan share a lot10:03
ZogG_laptopi just looking into harmattan / maemo and as harmattan maemo6 it's still needs things to be re-written or optimized from one platform to run on another10:03
M4rtinKwell, from my experience as a Python developer10:04
ZogG_laptopare people really still working on cordia? haven't heard of them a lot10:04
M4rtinKas long as all the needed packages are available, my stuff should run just fine :)10:04
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK, you mean script-poet? =P10:04
M4rtinKZogG_laptop: sound nice :)10:04
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M4rtinKZogG_laptop: I think I've seen smoku on this channel the other day, working on something10:05
Stskeepshey kjokinie :)10:06
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK, i wanted to pre-order tablet and than it was unavlb anymore10:06
M4rtinKthe Vivaldi ?10:06
phaeronM4rtinK: cordia10:06
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK, CordiaHD10:06
M4rtinKyeah, that chinese vendor fiasco10:06
ZogG_laptopyeah there were few devices i think10:07
kjokinieStskeeps: hey :)10:07
alteregoThe Vivaldi tablet looks pretty sleek10:08
ZogG_laptopalterego, i like Qt, especially for mobile, but i don't like KDE =)10:09
alteregoMe either, I wasn't talking about the UX, I was talking about the device :D10:09
* alterego looks in to why modem isn't being powered on10:10
Stskeepsalterego: what ofono version?10:11
alteregoLike I said, it works fine doing it manually, but it doesn't happen on start up10:11
ZogG_laptopbtw harmattan uses ofono as well right?10:11
alteregoSo, who did the systemd scripts? And how are they organised for powering on and connecting the modem on startup?10:12
ZogG_laptopsystemd? you use that?10:12
alteregoZogG_laptop: indeed10:12
alteregomer is 100% systemd now ;)10:12
ZogG_laptopoh nooooo10:13
ZogG_laptopi heard funtoo devs heading to tablet as well, and they decided to go with mdev i think10:13
ZogG_laptopjust to avoid systemd10:13
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alteregoStskeeps: I've looked all over the place, there doesn't seem to be a place where the modem is powered on and set online.10:17
alteregoThis obviously needs to happen before pin query as well.10:17
* alterego checks the package.10:17
alteregofull ver is 0.52-1.1210:19
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Stskeepshey sledges10:23
sledgesheyllo Stskeeps !10:23
sledgesmany things happened while I was away in N9 world :)10:24
lbtSage_: does the N900 Nemo HW adaptation provide usb networking?10:25
Sage_lbt: yes10:25
sledgess/away in/away, in/10:26
Stskeepssledges: , click view press release, read10:26
Stskeepsalterego: does things work better when it's powered on?10:27
Stskeepsor you can't power it on10:27
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Stskeepsalterego: could you run /sbin/ifconfig -a10:28
Stskeepsand show output10:28
alteregoStskeeps: everything works fine, when the modem is powered on, and set online. The problem is, that mer/nemo isn't setup to do this on system startup10:29
alteregoSo the modem is not powered on, or set online automatically.10:29
alteregoSo somewhere in the system startup, two dbus calls need to be send to ofonod to power on the modem, and set it online.10:29
Stskeepsso calls work when it's poweerd on ?10:29
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alteregoStskeeps: sort of ;)10:30
Stskeepscan you hear sound?10:30
alteregoStskeeps: when there's an incoming call, the ringtone goes, but the dialer app is broken and I can't use it to accept calls.10:30
Stskeepscan you make outgoing?10:30
alteregoAng on, I'll just do a couple more tests.10:31
alteregoOkay, speaker works, microphone does not.10:32
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alteregoIf I remember correctly, the modem was initialized during the misc boot script.10:32
alteregoSo the move to systemd may have broken this?10:33
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Stskeepsi thought it's supposed to come up on it's own10:33
alteregoDo calls work on the N900 with the latest nemo release?10:33
alteregoIf not, how long have calls been broken for?10:33
alteregoHrm, okay.10:33
alteregoMaybe an adaptation thing.10:33
* alterego builds an N900 nemo image.10:33
StskeepsREMINDER: Mer bug triage in 30 minutes in #mer-meeting, feel free to join if you're looking for something to contribute in10:34
vinsciso, does Nemo support N900 functionality completely? Haven't kept up to date on that.10:35
Sage_lbt: so should we name our ruby gem packages as: rubygem-X or ruby-gems-X or something else?10:35
Stskeepsvinsci: nemo provides n900 hardware adaptation, it's quite complete but some pieces missing10:35
alteregoDo we need to name them rubygem?10:35
Stskeepsnot as complete as maemo510:35
alteregoWould have thought, ruby-package would suffice.10:35
Sage_alterego: I would prefer gem name there as they are gems packaged to rpm form.10:35
alteregolbt: think I'm getting spouts of network latency with the wiki now you mention it ..10:36
M4rtinKStskeeps: so is there already GPS support in Nemo@N900 ?10:36
StskeepsM4rtinK: we used to, but i haven't wired it up to mer's qtmobility10:36
Stskeepsthe binaries are there10:36
M4rtinKI think there were some issues previously10:36
alteregoSage_: yeah, I see your point there. Does it package the gemspec and everything? So we actually need rubygems installed as well to use the packages?10:36
M4rtinKgood to know its on the way :)10:36
Sage_alterego: but anything goes. Fedora uses rubygem-X and opensuse ruby-gems-X10:36
Sage_in general we have followed fedora with these so should we follow fedora now as well?10:37
lbtalterego: OK10:37
lbtSage_: I think suse use rubygem-XXX10:38
Sage_alterego: I think the ruby-gems is needed only while packaging.10:38
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lbtalterego: if you prefer another name then that's fine by me - but you need to write it up and make sure the tools support it :)10:38
Sage_lbt: ah, you are right. sry.10:39
ZogG_laptopalterego, on what device you run it?10:39
lbtalterego: just be careful not to bikeshed it10:39
alteregorubygem-XXX is good with me10:40
lbtthought it would be :D10:40
alteregolbt: to use these packages, does the actual rubygems need to be installed?10:40
lbtthe tool creates spec files with appropriate dependencies10:41
Sage_alterego: does it make any difference?10:41
alteregoSure, but in ruby, do you need to "require 'rubygems'" "require 'mygem'"?10:41
alteregoSage_: somewhat yes ;)10:41
lbt1.9.3 should include rubygems now10:41
lbtI thought10:41
Sage_lbt: it does10:42
Sage_alterego: I know, but does it make any difference to the question I have aobut the package name? :)10:42
alteregoSage_: no10:42
Sage_alterego: atm. some of the packages depend on rubygems package it seems yes.10:42
lbtalso - tool dependency generation will need the name to be defined10:43
lbtIIRC the 'require' string is the package name10:43
alteregoI'm gessing this gem2rpm handles that by just sticking rubygem-XXX infront of the package dependencies. Which is fine, but it also makes me think that all of these packages require 'rubygems' which is also fine. I'm just curious :)10:43
lbtseems a damn sensible policy10:43
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Stskeepsmorn dcthang :)10:43
lbtalterego: that feels like a ruby port issue10:43
dcthangmorn Sstkeeps :P10:44
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, you are welcoming everyone, ah? =P10:44
StskeepsZogG_laptop: sure, didn't i welcome you?10:44
alteregolbt: Well, we are packaging gems after all, I'd imagine it's just sticking all the files that would be in the gem directory in to a rpm archive. So you just do rpm -i or zypper in, instead of gem install10:44
lbtZogG_laptop: only when he's had too much coffee10:44
lbtalterego: correct10:44
alteregoAnyway, all good from here :)10:45
dcthangit looks like we have a good news :-)10:45
alteregoAlso, OT, but has anyone heard about Dells' Project Sputnik? :)10:45
alterego"Project Sputnik", I applied last night. Maybe I'll get lucky.10:46
dcthangI heard that long times ago10:46
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, you actually didn't  :_(10:48
StskeepsZogG_laptop: i'm sorry, must have been asleep ;)10:49
ZogG_laptopalterego, there is nothing about specs and prices there, except "discount for beta testers"10:49
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alteregoZogG_laptop: indeed.10:49
StskeepsZogG_laptop: welcome to #mer :) what brings you here?10:49
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, actually you10:49
alteregoZogG_laptop: but it'll be normal ultrabook specs. Dell are pretty good imo. I love using their laptops ..10:49
Stskeepshey anidel10:50
alteregoAt least the ones I've had .. :D10:50
* anidel guesses that #mer will have few more people joining soonish10:50
lbtBug triage in #mer-meeting in 10mins10:50
Stskeepsanidel: already started yesterday10:50
lbtiekku: ^^ ?10:50
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, it was like that jolla->jollamobile->mer . I was here few times, but i feel useless most of the time =\10:50
StskeepsZogG_laptop: core work is not always sexy :)10:51
alteregoIt is if you're wearing your "I'm sexy and I know it" Hat.10:51
ZogG_laptopStskeeps, it's not about that, i would like to help, it's about my knowledge =) but i think i'll play more with Nemo and mer when i get n950 and rasbperry (first is stuck in customs, second is awaiting orders)10:52
anidellbt: :)10:52
lbtZogG_laptop: I'm nearly ready to get people testing and improving minimal Mer installs10:52
alteregoZogG_laptop: you don't have to be a hacker to work with us. Just test, test, test :)10:52
lbtanidel: :)10:52
alteregoAnd submit bugs, etc.10:52
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lbtright now I need to make a bare N900 image boot to usb-nw10:53
ZogG_laptopalterego, i do not like Dell and i wouldn't mind to buy one, as my gf wants laptop, but no real specs or prices, and as it's beta it may be not the best specs avlb and price can be high10:53
lbtI think the auto usb0 line is in one of the Nemo bits I removed10:53
ZogG_laptoplbt, alterego ok, but on what can i test it? all i have for now is n9 as main phone, so no tests there for sure =)10:54
lbtExoPC, N900, N950, RasPi, and soon, VM10:54
lbtalso beagleboard iirc10:54
ZogG_laptopalterego, i had bad expr with Dells once - so no Dell anymore. I have over priced but really good HW that is poorly supported by company in linux and most of options even in bios are closed - now you have one chance to quess what laptop i have =)10:55
ZogG_laptoplbt, as i get n950 and RasPi i would love too10:56
alteregoZogG_laptop: Apple? :P10:57
iekkulbt, thanks!10:57
lbtZogG_laptop: OK, I'm working on N900 first, then N95010:58
lbtRasPi when they get their fingers out of their arses10:58
ZogG_laptoplbt, i want to get N900 as mine dead10:59
alteregolbt: getting quite a bit of latency on wiki, is it unusually busy per chance?10:59
ZogG_laptopalterego, nope10:59
ZogG_laptopalterego, Sony10:59
lbtalterego: no ... it's being a pita ... don't know why10:59
lbtI thought it was just me so left it for a bit10:59
lbtwill look post-triage as it's affecting other people now11:00
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iekkumer bug triage starting11:00
lbtZogG_laptop: (and this is why a simple tutorial takes forever to finish)11:00
ZogG_laptoplbt, i would love to help as i get devices to test11:01
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Sage_lbt: where does suse store the gems as in directory in file system %{_libdir}/gems/ ?11:05
lbtSage_: in triage - not 100% sure11:06
Sage_or where do we want to store them?11:06
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alteregoThat depends on where rubygems wants them.11:10
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KaIRC"The server at is taking too long to respond." Either they haven't done a proper website yet (as I just tried a website with their email domain name) or they are overloaded with web requests ;-)11:17
Stskeepsworking on website11:17
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KaIRCStskeeps: ah, ok. a placeholder with "coming soon" would be better than a timeout for now, though :)11:34
chouchouneStskeeps: tss tss tss, focus on the device, not the website ;)11:34
* chouchoune kidding, of course11:34
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Stskeepsphaeron: ,
Stskeepshello rferrazz :)11:37
rferrazzhello! i'm stepped in just to see what's happening after the jolla annonuncement11:38
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alteregoSage_: can you tell me the purpose of setup_gpio() in /usr/sbin/ in the n900 nemo adaptation?11:38
alteregoSage_: do those GPIO calls setup the modem manually without ofonod?11:38
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Stskeepsrferrazz: sure :) if you have any questions on Mer, free free to ask at any time, else feel free to hang out and learn more :)11:39
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Sage_alterego: Not sure. sry :/11:43
alteregoSage_: basically, we have a problem in N950 startup that isn't causing N950 modem to power on or go online.11:44
alteregoSage_: do you know if calls have ever worked for N950 nemo?11:44
rferrazzwhat are the main diffrernces between another embedded linux distro like openwrt and mer?11:45
Stskeepsrferrazz: openwrt has it's place :) we are more about experience devices11:45
Stskeepsrferrazz: we come with systems, too, not only code11:45
phaeronStskeeps: I believe it starts the calculation with the empty or missing packages before the actual stuff has been copied. so I rewriting it not to11:45
Sage_alterego: they have worked yes.11:45
Stskeepsphaeron: ok11:46
Stskeepsphaeron: just collecting data11:46
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Sage_alterego: however, it has never been too reliable.11:48
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Stskeepsalterego: AFAIK ofono should handle gpio itself11:50
Stskeepsalterego: nowadays11:50
Sage_Stskeeps: also the version we have in Mer atm. ?11:51
StskeepsSage_: i think so11:51
Stskeepsalterego: can you get me dmesg?11:51
alteregoHrm, well, it still needs manually powering on and setting to online. So what's supposed to handle that at startup?11:51
alteregoOr is it suppsed to be automagic?11:51
Stskeepsalterego: can you get me that ifconfig -a after startup?11:51
Stskeepsi have a bad feeling11:51
alteregoStskeeps: looks fine, phonet0 is UP11:52
Stskeepsalterego: ok11:52
Stskeepsalterego: and dmesg?11:52
Stskeepsi don't .. yet.. have a microsim11:52
* Stskeeps looks embarassed11:52
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alteregoN950 doesn't need microsim :P11:52
Stskeepsi use n950 for my regular phone11:53
Stskeepsalterego: how do you bring modem online?11:53
alteregoUsing ofono-tests11:54
alteregoIt's basically two dbus calls11:54
Stskeepsok, tell me which?11:54
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alteregoStskeeps: /usr/lib/ofono/test/enable-modem && /usr/lib/ofono/test/online-modem11:55
alteregoThere are issues with the dialer, basically can't get it to do anything. But that'll be something else.11:56
alteregoI can use the test scripts to make and receive calls, mic doesn't appear to work with active call.11:56
alteregoSo something possibly wrong with PA setup there.11:57
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alteregoUnfortunately, I don't know how/when the modem is supposed to be online'd.11:58
alteregoI don't think ofonod does it automatically.11:58
Stskeepscan you get a log from ofonod when it starts up?11:58
alteregoYeah, got one.11:58
Stskeepsie, add -d parameter and submit it somewhere11:58
Stskeeps-before- onlining the modem11:58
alteregoStraight after startup11:58
alteregoOkay to grep "ofonod" so you don't get the rest of the junk? :)11:59
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phaeronI guess it needs to understand flight mode from connman12:00
Stskeepsthat's what i thought too, but we have a saner connman now12:00
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Stskeepsalterego: ah feck12:03
Stskeepsalterego: can't you adjust term length?12:03
alteregoCan I? :)12:03
Stskeeps pipe to a file?12:04
lbtis that journalctl ?12:04
alteregoYeah, -a fixes it, hang on12:04
alteregoStskeeps: refresh12:04
phakocan someone manually subscribe me to the mer mailinglist, please?12:05
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lbtsmoku: ^^ ?12:06
Stskeepsphako: can't you do that on your own?12:06
phakomy mailserver is still in ahbl12:06
phakoStskeeps: ^12:06
phakoor rather the whole /2412:06
* Stskeeps has to go lay down a bit12:07
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Stskeepsalterego: i have a later kernel .. might be useful12:09
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smokulbt: ?12:13
Stskeepsadd, zypper up12:14
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Stskeepswelcome back ravirdv12:19
Stskeepsalterego: no guarantees this won't botch everything12:19
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w00tStskeeps: i see you're learning since your "new qt5 is totally available in the repository right now" incident12:21
Stskeepsw00t: at least i didn't write unrealircd!12:21
Stskeepsoh, wait12:21
w00tyou were drunk, you're excused12:21
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Stskeepswelcome back, blaroche :)12:24
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ravirdv@Stskeeps I love this palce :)12:24
Stskeepsravirdv: good, then i'm doing a good job :)12:24
blarocheStskeeps: morning :) .. at least for me12:24
ravirdvI've been 2nd time here, but already feel part of this community :)12:24
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Stskeepsyep, we work by UGT here -
alteregoI was loling at unrealircd ..12:26
w00tit's always morning in #mer! (monday morning with mer! let's just hope that isn't yet another rerun of san francisco)12:26
blarochei wasn't aware, thanks much for the link :)12:26
alteregoStskeeps: what will this updated kernel supposedly achieve? :)12:27
lbtsmoku: phako was trying to get subscribed to ml12:27
lbthas ahbl issues12:27
Stskeepsalterego: modem update stuff12:27
alteregoAh, cool12:27
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phakolbt: remembered that I could finally use my gmail address for sth useful12:27
phakoso, nevermind :)12:27
chouchouneStskeeps: I've read on Twitter several days ago that you were working on Wayland/Qt5 ?12:28
chouchouneWas it with Mer ?12:28
w00tchouchoune: yes, we're experimenting with wayland+mer12:28
chouchouneoh great12:29
chouchounewhat's the status ?12:29
w00tchouchoune: some videos at
* alterego installs new kernel12:31
w00tchouchoune: that's all done with software rendering inside a VM btw.. if that helps give perspective on performance.. and the lag you see isn't down to that, but some issues with console output12:32
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mjais it likely wayland ends up in Jolla's products?12:32
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chouchounew00t: not worried about performance in the short term12:32
Stskeepsmja: i can't talk about the future, but if it works fine in mer, and hardware support exists, why not12:33
Stskeepsravirdv: sure :) think of this as a giant virtual office and that helps :)12:33
mjastskeeps, but it's likely it'll be xorg to begin with?12:33
w00tchouchoune: sure, general base is that it performs well anyway12:33
Stskeepsmja: i'll only say that wayland support isn't terribly well out there in current hardware offerings.12:34
Stskeepswhich is a damn shame12:34
Stskeepsfrom Mer POV, i want to make it easy to do wayland based systems12:34
Stskeepsand develop them12:34
mjaStskeeps: understood12:35
Stskeepslike in w00teh1s videos about12:35
alteregoStskeeps: no change.12:35
Stskeepsalterego: uname -a12:35
alteregoLinux localhost.localdomain #1 PREEMPT Sat Jul 7 09:49:44 UTC 2012 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux12:36
Stskeepswell, one more dow12:36
Stskeepsmja: personally, in my free time, i'm working to sgx enable n900/n950/n9 again12:36
Stskeepsand me and w00t are brewing on a wayland-only stack with busybox, etc12:37
Stskeepswhich will run on usual suspects, exopc, n900/n950/n9, perhaps archos 69, s10-3t, raspberry pi12:37
Stskeepsarchos G912:38
* w00t reads up12:39
Stskeeps_av500_: archos 69 sounds like a brilliant product direction12:40
chouchounethat would already be a grat start !12:40
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alteregoStskeeps, Sage_ okay, what next? wrt ofono not intializing N950 modem :)12:43
Sage_alterego: well, you could probably use phonesim to emulate modem and do some tests with that.12:43
Sage_not sure though if we have it packaged atm.12:43
alteregoI'll continue poking around for a bit more then.12:44
Sage_alterego: also one note is that our ofono has old dbus api's and the updated ofono will have changed api's12:44
alteregoDo we have anyone that specialises more in this area?12:44
Stskeepsalterego: compare with n900 logs12:44
alteregoStskeeps: was thinking of doing that ..12:45
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Stskeepshi aiads :)12:52
Stskeepswelcome here to #mer :) what brings you around?12:53
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Stskeepshello eric / Guest41054 :)13:01
Stskeeps.. or formerly known as aiads ;)13:01
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Guest41054i  am new   guy13:02
Stskeepssure :)13:03
Stskeepsif you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask13:03
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Stskeepsphaeron: how are we doing?13:04
ericcthe   tizen  is  mer 2.0?13:04
Stskeepsnah, tizen is it's own thing :)13:04
Stskeepsmer is mer13:04
Stskeepsoriginal idea for mer was meego 2.0, but then intel launched meego13:04
Stskeepslaunched tizen13:04
w00tStskeeps: we should probably update the homepage..13:05
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phaeronStskeeps: stuck on a perl syntax issues;13:06
ericcmeego  can  run  in  the   palm pre3?13:06
Stskeepsphaeron: ah, the usual :)13:06
Stskeepsericc: we don't do meego here, sorry, we do Mer :)13:06
Stskeepsericc: Mer could potentially run but you need to do a lot of hard work13:06
ericci  want  to  ner  run  in  my    palm13:07
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ericcto  hack  it?13:07
Stskeepsericc: OK, and it takes a lot of work :) you need to know about linux kernel compilation, etc13:07
alteregoWhat's the appropriate mic command for creating raw images for N900?13:07
alterego-f raw doesn't work for me anymore ..13:08
alteregoOh wait, do I just not do -f now ..13:08
lbtmic create raw13:08
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alteregoYeah, just figured that out ;)13:08
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lbtI was editing it w/o saving ... but you may find it helpful13:09
lbtI'm about to add something to get usb networking to work13:09
* alterego wonders where his _other_ _other_ _other_ sim card is ..13:10
ericcthe  mer sdk  only   run   linux?or  windows13:11
lbtericc: most linux13:11
alteregoonly Linux is supported13:11
alteregoYou can run it in a VM under windows though ;)13:11
shrikrishnai just switched over to precise13:11
alteregolbt: what do you think about creating a remote compiler like Nokia have for Qt Creator? :)13:12
shrikrishnaand  /etc/apt/sources.list is very different here13:12
ericci   had   as5  in13:12
shrikrishnaoops sorry i'll wait...13:12
ericcmy   vbox!13:12
alteregoWould need an OSC client for windows I guess.13:12
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lbtI have zero windows knowledge13:12
lbtand no windows PCs13:12
lbtor phones13:12
shrikrishnacheers lbt !! :D13:13
ericcwhich  you  phone?n9?n90013:13
anidellbt: your Dell came with Linux? cool13:13
lbtanidel: it's a long story .... a grateful customer ....13:13
alteregoanidel: mine came with Windows 7, doesn't mean I booted it ..13:13
ericchow  can  you  see  the  mer  sdk  pic?13:14
Stskeepsericc: for application developer, you want qt sdk13:14
lbtericc: the Mer SDK is only command line13:14
ericcimpressive ?13:14
anidelalterego: it's still a Windows PC :P na kidding :) I wish one could really choose hw and pick the sw he wants, be it pc, tablet, pad, phone...13:14
lbtshrikrishna: the Platform SDK works on any modern linux distro13:15
lbtit's chroot based13:15
alteregoanidel: indeed, Dell are probably one of the more Linux friendly manufacturers tbh.13:15
shrikrishnano.... my problem is13:15
lbtanidel: as long as there's no MS-tax13:15
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shrikrishnain sources.list13:15
lbtshrikrishna: mmm so what are you installing?13:15
shrikrishnait's something like deb maverick main multiverse universe13:16
anidellbt: :)13:16
shrikrishnawhich is different from previous versions13:16
lbtshrikrishna: ah, that's MeeGo ... it's dead13:16
lbtdon't tell Jolla :)13:16
Stskeepsshrikrishna: just grab mer platform sdk,
lbtwe're Mer ... and we do things differently in some areas13:16
lbtlike that13:16
lbtshrikrishna: you'll probably want to remove any MeeGo things from your system if you're just working with Mer13:17
lbtto avoid conflicts13:18
shrikrishnajust did13:18
shrikrishnafollowed it from the guide in this page -
ericchtml5 can  run  on  th   mer?13:19
ericcok      i   go  to   install   sdk13:23
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ericcwhere  is  mer  ui?13:38
Stskeepsericc: mer doesn't have a ui :)13:38
ericchow  can  mer  do somthing13:39
anidelit has a's called CLI13:39
Stskeepsanidel: good luck getting a login prompt without a kernel ;)13:40
lbtanidel:  soon13:41
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anidelif there's no kernel, then there's no mer13:43
anidelif there's mer, there could be a shell, thus a cli13:43
anidelbut're right, of course ;)13:44
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Stskeepshello shanxS :)13:51
_av500_Stskeeps: just put the matching content on it13:51
Stskeeps_av500_: deal!13:51
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alteregohurp, n900 nemo doesn't have journalctl thingy13:52
Stskeepsanidel: uhh13:52
Stskeepsit should13:52
Stskeepsalterego: i mean13:52
Stskeepssame core version13:52
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lbtalterego: good, I thought that too13:53
alteregowhat package is it supposed to be in?13:53
alteregoDefinitely not there.13:54
alteregoNot in latest n950 image either O_O13:54
shanxShey Stskeeps13:54
Stskeepssystemd-journalctl ?13:54
Stskeepsjournalctl ?13:54
alteregoOh I'm anidiot13:54
StskeepsshanxS: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?13:54
Stskeepsalterego: no, you're altereg13:55
shanxSI just saw news about Jolla Mobile13:55
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alteregoshanxS: cool :)13:55
shanxSa link took me to
StskeepsshanxS: cool :) if you have any questions about Mer, feel free to ask at any time, or on how to contribute - else feel free to hang out and learn13:55
shanxSyes.. yes !!!13:56
shanxSwhat are the future plans13:56
Stskeepsfor Mer? continue as we're going, solving the problems we have, innovate, :)13:56
shanxSI have not yet explored the wesite completely13:56
Stskeepswe're just a core, so it's limited how much we need to do, we 'just' need to do it well13:56
StskeepsUI and hardware adaptation left up to others13:57
shanxShow can I start to contribute13:57
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StskeepsshanxS: well, as a start, grab Mer platform SDK,
Stskeepsand register at https://bugs.merproject.org13:57
Stskeepsand yes, our SSL certificates are self-signed13:57
Stskeepshello foob :)13:57
ericcthe   jolla  is  mer?13:58
Stskeepsericc: yes, jolla is mer based13:59
shanxSI'll be needing some guidance in initial stages... so I'll keep bothering you13:59
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StskeepsshanxS: please do13:59
shanxSjolla is mer based ? aren't they trying to bring MeeGo into market instead ?13:59
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alteregoshanxS: Mer is sort of MeeGo 2.014:00
StskeepsshanxS: mer is meego based too :)14:00
alteregoWe're continuing where that project left off.14:00
StskeepsshanxS: we split off from meego 1.3, where meego had died14:00
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Stskeepsand decided to do things the right way14:00
shanxSalrighty... so its like Mer is a fork of MeeGo, right ?14:01
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Stskeepstizen IVI is also a fork of meego14:01
Stskeepsmany of us worked in before14:01
rcggreetings from port elizabeth14:01
Stskeepsrcg: hope you enjoyed your trip :)14:01
shanxSyeah I just read about that.. but why do we have two forks ? shouldn't both teams work together to speed up things IMHO14:03
StskeepsshanxS: we wanted to go a different direction -- in fact, Mer existed before MeeGo14:03
Stskeepswe joined as they claimed same methods and philosophies as us14:04
Stskeepsit got turned into a damn mess14:04
shanxSohh.. I see...14:04
Stskeepsso, when Tizen got announced.. well, we decided it was time to show how it should be done14:04
Stskeepswe do work together and admire people in tizen IVI though14:04
Stskeepsthey do good work on their stack, for their purpose, but we're not playing the same game14:04
rcgStskeeps: well, was quite exhausting.. took a nap when i first arrived at the hotel here14:05
alteregoStskeeps: lots of differences between N900 and N950 startup.14:05
Stskeepsalterego: interesting14:05
alteregoBasically N900 continues and N950 stops14:05
* shanxS off to explore Mer14:06
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alteregoStskeeps: apparently connman is supposed to do this stuff. But not sure about that.14:07
Stskeepsalterego: hmm14:07
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phaeronStskeeps: it's looking better, and I found the reason some packages were not copied14:07
anidelwhat stuff?14:07
alteregoinit cell mo14:07
Stskeepsphaeron: interesting14:07
Stskeepshello subhamoy :)14:08
alteregowell cause cellmio init14:08
Stskeepsanidel: we're debugging why modem doesn't always come up on n950/n9 adaptation14:08
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Stskeepshey supreet :)14:08
supreetStskeeps: hey14:09
Stskeepssubhamoy & supreet: welcome :) so what brings you here to #Mer ?14:09
anidelstskeeps you mean for makin calls or for when a USB cable is attached to a PC14:09
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supreetWell, I was supposed to aKademy - 2012 ( KDE summit)14:09
supreetbut couldn't due to visa issues14:09
Stskeepsanidel: for making calls14:09
supreetbut my friends who attended it14:09
supreetmade some posts14:09
Stskeepssupreet: ah, yeah, visas are always such a mess :)14:09
supreetregarding mer14:10
Stskeepscool - got a URL?14:10
supreetso I thought I should check up :)14:10
KaIRCdon't get me started on visas14:10
subhamoyStskeeps: i have been involved indirectly in Meego dev and R&D while doing my Master's in aalto univ in helsinki14:10
supreetsince I have been working with QMl14:10
Stskeepssubhamoy: alright :) me too, on / ARM side14:10
Stskeepssubhamoy: if you have any questions regarding Mer, or on how to contribute, feel free to ask any time - else feel free to hang out and learn/watch :)14:10
supreeturl> - :P14:11
supreetthere was a post on G+14:11
Stskeepssupreet: ah, i meant the post on G+14:11
subhamoyStskeeps: yes, of course; that's one of the reasons to join here ! :)14:11
Stskeepssubhamoy: excellent :)14:11
Stskeepssupreet: thanks :)14:12
Stskeepssupreet: i was positively surprised by
Stskeepsit's a very well written article14:12
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supreetStskeeps: i would like to contribute, I currently won't have a lot of time but possibly over the weekends14:14
Stskeepsphaeron: let me know when i should test something.. i have to go in an hour latest to my mother in law though14:14
Stskeepssupreet: sure :) any contribution, no matter the size, matters14:14
supreetI am looking more towards QML14:14
Stskeepswe'd like people to use Mer, do exciting new things with it14:15
Stskeepsnot just rehashing handsets or tablets :)14:15
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alteregoWow, that article is good Stskeeps14:17
alteregoThat one had missed me.14:17
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Stskeepshello ukas :)14:18
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anidelneed to ask Jukka, but do you guys know how much open JollaMobile plans to be?14:19
ukashello :)14:19
anidelhello ukas14:19
Stskeepsukas: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?14:19
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alteregoanidel: I'm sure we'll find out more over the next few weeks as the ramp up their online presence.14:19
alteregoThey've just put a facebook page together and they're working on proper website at the moment.14:20
Stskeepsanidel: i can't say more than what twitter and press releases say, but the message is that they're working with Mer (and has been for several months) and contributing to it, and continuing to14:20
Stskeepsanidel: so that's already a good start14:20
Stskeepsand Mer and Qt are corner stones14:20
ukasStskeeps: plain curiosity14:20
alteregoStskeeps: I might drop this ofono startup issue for a bit until new version comes. And just manually enable it for now whilst working on dialer.14:21
Stskeepsukas: sure :) if you have any questions about Mer, or on how to contribute, feel free to ask at any time :) else feel free to just hang out, watch, and learn :)14:21
ukasStskeeps: thanks :)14:21
Stskeepsalterego: get me n900 logs and i'll follow up14:21
anidelthey are ineed. As Alterego said, we need to wait and see. Will let Jukka work on the website instead of bothering him with questions he'll answer ultimately anyway14:21
alteregoStskeeps: ttp://
alteregoWith a h14:21
Stskeepsanidel: but in general, it's not a cashless hippie commune trying to launch a project, there's partners and investors14:21
Stskeepsok, that sounded bad in open context :)14:22
ukascashless hippie commune :D14:22
Stskeepsalterego: thanks14:22
alteregoI think you just insulted about 90% of the people in this channel ;)14:22
mikhasand it's factually wrong, too14:23
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PaimenI still have hippie on hilite, but I'm not insulted :P14:23
alteregohippies can have partners too!14:23
anidelstskeeps: ;)14:23
Stskeepsanidel: what kind of open were you interested in, just out of curiousity?14:24
anidelStskeeps: governance14:25
Stskeepsanidel: ah14:25
anidelStskeeps: but I know the answer already /me thinks14:25
Stskeepsanidel: mer stays the way it is (open governance), with jolla as a vendor amongst many.. regarding upper stack, stay tuned14:26
anidelStskeeps: of course will be very intersting to see what they choose to keep closed14:26
Stskeepsit always is, yes14:26
anideldefinitely fascinating times on the mobile industry...14:27
Stskeepsi personally consider it a win if we can have multiple companies using mer, to build different kind of devices14:27
Stskeepsa new kind of ecosystem, as such14:27
Stskeepsnot just app centered14:27
PaimenI'm very exited to see what kind of UX they manage to ship14:27
anidelStskeeps: for you guys it's definitely a win.14:27
anidelStskeeps: yeah, what meego should have done, as said, you're doing it right.14:28
vilpanfor everybody. The more companies, the more things they'll find in common, then it's only common sense to collaborate14:28
Stskeepsas i've said in several talks.. what people didn't do in meego, was actually to make handsets or for that matter tablets14:28
alteregoI think what I'd like is open user engagement. I hope they keep a close relationship with the customers, and really listen to what people want.14:28
Stskeepsthey made devices that was beyond that, scrapped the upper ui layer14:28
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anidelalterego: I strongly believe they will14:29
Stskeepsas that was what meego really was, damn good for customizing14:29
anidelStskeeps: it was indeed14:29
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alteregoanidel: I do too.14:29
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Stskeepsi'm personally almost scared at the attention this stuff is getting though, makes you wonder if it really touched a significant nerve in mobile industry14:30
anidelseveral open seeds have been planted, few storms passed by, it's time to see something grow up of this mess. JollaMobile is one of these. And I believe they have the right assets to succeed and I'll do my best to support them.14:30
Stskeeps.. and next up, what kind of businesses can be built on top of this14:30
anidelStskeeps: what I just intended to say , but in a more clear way :) I think it has14:31
PaimenStskeeps: well Samsung is shooting itself in to foot with Tizen and android, wp and iphone are closed. So of course Mer and Jolla will get lot of attention14:31
anideland I hope Samsung sees it through and joins, as they are powerful enough to make a big difference here14:32
Stskeepsanidel: Intel, Samsung and others are welcome to join Mer, on same conditions as everybody else14:32
anidelSamsung is a hard to understand player here with Tizen.14:32
ukashas anything new happened with Tizen since they announced it?14:32
alteregoI don't think it's that hard to understand./14:32
Stskeepsukas: well, they do have a reference device14:33
alteregoTizen gives them more power over the platform they use in their devices.14:33
anideland they have what Nokia had with Maemo, I hope they do not make the same mistakes.14:33
ukasbut not much14:33
PaimenTizen is just new iteration of Bada, so called open platform, but all decissions and development is done inhouse14:33
Stskeepsi don't want to downplay tizen as 1) there's people who want to do really good in those projects 2) their web runtime isn't half bad14:33
ukasand android/ios/wp is old news, so no wonder if Jolla is causing waves :P14:33
Stskeepsand 3) they seem to care about wanting to go for standards14:33
alteregoPaimen: unfortunately with these large companies I can only seeing it work that way.14:33
alteregoThey want to stay in control.14:33
Paimenit is not bad platform, but people want more open platform14:34
Stskeeps.. now if they could just do it right and publish things sanely..14:34
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anidelexactly that.14:34
anidellet's hope...14:34
Paimenalso it will be really interesting thing to see how it goes with html514:34
Stskeepsthere's good work being done with tizen '2.0' or whatever it's called, which is practically meego based14:34
Paimenaltought Mer is in good standign point with that too14:34
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anidelI met the team and they are hard workers and they want Tizen to succeed. As said, hope they learnt from mistakes already been made by Nokia14:35
Stskeepsanidel: yeah.. and then go on to let the samsung+intel mix do exactly the same things all over again14:35
Stskeepsand yes, they're good people14:36
Stskeepsjust i think they should really have been let go of corporate restraints, get pushed in front and set up shop properly themselves14:36
* anidel nods14:36
ukashow well does mer work in n900? meaning can you make calls and surf the web? coworker of mine got interested since there seemed to be a image of mer for n90014:37
Stskeepsukas: calls, surf web14:37
Stskeepsit's Nemo, however14:37
Stskeepsmer doesn't contain hw adaptations, or UI14:37
Stskeepsukas: it's a nice hacking platform, but not a end user product14:37
ukasokay :)14:37
ukasso what does mer actually contain?14:38
supreetStskeeps: do we have a developer device in the making?14:38
anidelcorrect if wrong: hw adaptation (kernel, drivers, etc) + mer core + whatever you need+ UI -> full blow OS14:38
supreetfor UX development?14:38
Stskeepsanidel: we usually say = product, but sure14:38
Stskeepsukas: + systems surrounding it14:38
anidelsupreet: you can run Mer on everything, why you need a developer device from Mer?14:38
Stskeepssupreet: let me show you a video..14:39
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supreetfrom what I read you guys are concentrating on phones14:39
Stskeepssupreet: nop, mobile core14:39
Stskeepsmeans a core that can run in a mobile scenario, ie, not plugged into the mains at all times14:39
Stskeepsand low footprint, etc14:39
alteregosupreet: Jolla are concentrating on Phones, Mer is a core to run on all kinds of devices. We actually don't even think too much about devices, just make it as lean and robust as possible :)14:40
Stskeeps(and easy to hw adapt for)14:40
Stskeepssupreet: is in a virtual machine, with Mer, LLVMpipe software rendering, Qt5, wayland, qml compositor14:40
Stskeepsoh, on a x86 laptop14:40
supreetcool I ll check it out14:40
Stskeepsand yes, we know that lags, it's a bug we found after video recording14:40
ukasbut mer comes with Qt?14:40
Stskeepsukas: yes, but some even strip qt and use GNOME instead14:40
Paimenukas: qt5 alpha1 I think14:41
Stskeepswe optimize for html5/qml/js scenario14:41
ukasokay :)14:41
Stskeepswe're very much about mold-your-own core if you need to14:41
Stskeepsplasma active doesn't use connman, like mer's standard configuration, they use network manager14:41
saya_Hi. Been reading this discussion. So mer is more like a standard set of packages and configuration? I don't get exactly what it is, not ux, not drivers.14:44
Stskeepssaya_: Mer is a bit loosely defined as a core.. combine with a UI and a hardware adaptation and you have a 'product'14:44
Stskeepssaya_: we work towards creating a core, and systems (build farm software, SDKs, QA tools), etc, that any vendor can pick up and use14:45
supreetso how closely is the Jolla team working with you guys?14:45
Stskeepsthe thing is that for most mobile linux solutions, people end up with very similar stacks14:45
Stskeepssupreet: i'm project architect, and part of jolla (though i handle my role as i should, vendor-agnostic)14:46
Stskeepssupreet: and few others contributing too14:46
saya_Hmmm ok so a good base to build from.14:46
Stskeepssaya_: yes14:46
shanxSi may be interrupting.. buts isn't Linux + UI + h/w adaptation == product, too ?14:46
StskeepsshanxS: Linux is just a kernel :)14:46
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StskeepsshanxS: on top of that there's a userland that UI stands upon14:46
shanxSso what is difference b/n Linux and Mer14:46
shanxSI mean Mer == Linux + what ?14:46
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alteregoLinux is a kernel, Mer uses the Linux kernel.14:46
PaimenshanxS: Linux + Middleware14:47
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alteregoMer == Linux + GNU + More standard middleware14:47
Stskeepssaya_: yes, indeed - and keep updates for, security updates, new technologies..14:47
saya_+ Integration and QA tools then?14:47
alteregoFor instance, X11, Qt14:47
Stskeepssaya_: yup, sec14:47
alteregosaya_: yes, and those14:47
shanxSwhat exactly is middleware.. pls enlighten me14:47
alteregoshanxS: it's all the boring stuff people don't see behind their UIs14:47
StskeepsshanxS: if it's OK, can i ask you to look up terms on wikipedia too? (not trying to be mean, but it will let you know more than our 512-character max replies)14:48
anidellbt; read and write a nice What's exactly Mer is wiki page :P14:48
alteregoshanxS: the daemons and system startup scripts and tools, the filesystem management stuff, the graphics APIs, etc, etc.14:48
Stskeepssaya_: , etc14:48
alteregoshanxS: it's basically the _largest_ part of any products operating system.14:48
shanxSStskeeps, ohh that sounds like good ides14:48
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Stskeepssaya_: we want to make it easy to scale from prototype to full product team fast14:49
shanxSalterego: cool... thanks for explaination14:49
Stskeepsand hence we target mostly small to medium enterprises14:49
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alteregoshanxS: so we give people this core operating system, and say, make it work on your hardware by including your specific device drivers, and make it do what you want for your customers by creating a compelling UX on top of what we supply.14:49
alteregoAnd they they have their product.14:49
saya_Stskeeps: Ok thanks :p and i your testing all of that first hand with jolla14:49
Stskeepssaya_: yes, and we have already been doing it with other vendors too14:50
Stskeepsthere's no good reason why different mer vendors has to NIH their own systems :)14:50
alteregolbt: got an SDK issue14:50
shanxSalterego, ohh.. I see...14:51
lbtanidel: :)14:51
alteregoshanxS: :)14:51
lbtalterego: ?14:51
alteregolbt: can't use git14:51
lbtcommand line ?14:51
Stskeepsmikhas: do maliit have CJK input methods btw?14:52
mikhasI wish …14:52
alteregogit clone
mikhasStskeeps, not easy to get that stuff for free these days. But there's talk.14:53
alteregolbt: ^14:53
Stskeepsmikhas: alright14:53
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mikhasAnd we have the J at least.14:53
lbtalterego: confirmed14:53
mikhasand with some effort, even simple Chinese input method ought to be feasible.14:53
lbtalterego: log bug against SDK please14:54
mikhas(by using for instance)14:54
lbtrelease blocker too14:54
alteregomikhas: I guess the N9s chinese input method is nothing to do with maliit?14:54
alteregoThe one for drawing glyphs?14:54
mikhasit does use Maliit14:54
alteregoAh, okay.14:54
mikhaseven that one does14:54
lbtit needs tying to the SDK ca-cert one if you can14:54
alteregoBut a closed Nokia plugin of some kind?14:54
mikhasbut it's all secret sauce14:55
lbtI just need to make sure to test it14:55
* lbt will do SDK when his N900 has ssh + qt5 mer on it14:55
alteregolbt: do you need me to do anything?14:55
mikhasalterego, but even if you got the UI bits released: they're worthless without engines14:55
alteregomikhas: yeah14:55
lbtso if anyone wants to help me get an IP on my N900...14:55
alteregolbt: default is ;)14:55
alteregoThink it's setup in the udev scripts ..14:56
lbtyeah but it needs usb0 on auto14:56
lbtin Mer14:56
alteregoI'll check14:56
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Paimenok, getting some pizza and watching some movie with wife, so see you tomorrow14:58
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alteregohmm, missing14:58
lbto/ Paimen14:58
lbtalterego: I'd have thought connman?14:58
alteregoYeah, maybe now.14:58
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alteregoIs nemo using Qt5?15:03
alteregoI'm guessing not ..15:04
Stskeepsalterego: i've had qmlscene -platform xcb working on my nemo setup15:04
alteregoAh, m'kay.15:04
Stskeepswith co-installed qt4/515:04
lbtStskeeps: so should I be looking to make connman bring up usb0 on Mer on N900 ?15:04
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Stskeepslbt: no, that's done by usbmoded on there AFAIK15:05
lbtOK - saves reinventing the wheel15:06
Stskeepsif you need to do auto QA, use ip= trick in kernel command line, or connman config files15:06
lbtconnman config sounded sensible15:07
lbtI'll try wifi like that then15:07
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alteregolbt: do you know where the obs package for qml dialer is?15:14
alteregoI want to clone it15:14
lbtcheck with Sage_15:14
alteregoSage_: ping ^15:15
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* sledges [un]fortunately today discovered how great an Android platform is:
leinirfor some value of "great", sure ;)15:20
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sledgeshaving a "loadsaapps" ecosystem is beneficial (contrary to dying OVI...): if development/integeration time is a key to project's success (in most cases it is), Android wins when you want to come up with such an alarm clock, with web radio app, google maps app (tailored to wake you up to your favourite station and see traffic info before you go to work) - as such apps already exist and need only polishing touches!15:21
sledgesand I thought it's silly to put Android on STBs/TVs/[insert_a_vertical_market_where_you_would_rather_put_Mer+UX] -- but it's not, as you'll want to play Angry Birds on them (to be more serious - refer to the above scenario I just wrote down..)15:23
alteregoSage_: nevermind found it, "Project:MTF:Tracker"15:23
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lbtsledges: sure ... also s/android/ms windows/15:25
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Stskeepssledges: and you didn't get an archos g9, that can run mer? :P15:25
lbtboth offer compelling stories based on scale, market share etc15:25
sledgesStskeeps, that's the first reason I went to they homepage :)15:25
sledgeslbt, I personally go for Android (ignoring my attitude to MS), just because it is going ahead above everyone else (Google Now >> Apple Siri, Google Maps/Nav+traffic_info >> any-other nav software I know; mail, PIM, integration)15:27
lbtyep, understandable15:28
ShadowJKAnd also android can now do vpn without rooting15:28
sledgesso this is the area Mer & Co. needs to revive: OVI store full with up-to-speed apps again, and it's a big challenge15:28
sledges*reconstruct :)15:28
lbtOTOH there are companies who don't want google to own their product strategy15:28
leinir(like Nokia... ;) )15:29
lbtMer has no app store though - makes no sense15:29
sledgesyes, and being afraid of law suites15:29
vilpanor people that don't want google to own their data15:29
alteregoWho doesn't want Google to own their data?!15:29
ShadowJKNexus 7 is kinda weird. 199 in US, same plus "ripoff britain" addition in UK, but 600 in rest of europe? heh15:29
lbthey ukas15:30
sledgesbut Jolla gives a great impulse for me to start all-out porting :) or looking at ~ACL (OpenMobile)15:30
sledgeshope you fellows feel similarly :)15:30
lbt*nod* ... we spoke to them at SF at tizen conf15:30
lbtthey were rather interested15:30
ukashey lbt15:31
sledges(though ACL [on Mer] might trigger Google's law dept. ..)15:31
lbtSEP :)15:31
alteregoActually getting a decent speed out of the meego obs, cool.15:32
alterego1min to download 120Mb15:33
Sage_alterego: yes Project:MTF:Tracker atm. I'm moving that away from there at some point when I get stuff done. what dialer needs is some deps cut out of it, any change you could reduce some of its deps that are not needed?15:33
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alteregoSage_: I15:36
alteregoI'll look in to it15:36
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lbtSage_: why is usb-moded in CE:UX:MTF ?15:36
alteregoI'm sure I can strip it down to nothing if you like ;)15:37
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ukasi just realized after reading about Jolla from a blog, the connection between burning platform and Jolla :D15:38
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alteregoShould I be building against repo: CE_MW_MTF_armv7hl15:39
alteregoHurp, only works against CE_UX_MTF_armv7hl15:40
alteregoOh well, /me trundles on15:41
Sage_lbt: well, it was requirement for the UX and nothing else used it thus never moved anywhere else.15:42
lbtvaguely wondering about moving it to N9xx-common?15:42
Sage_lbt: Also not sure if anything wants to use it. In nemo the discussion has been to move towards MTP so not sure if usb-moded anymore fits to the picture.15:42
Sage_There was a bug about this already15:43
lbtcurrently just thinking to use it for usb0 IP allocation :/15:43
lbtconnman would be better but I'm not sure how15:43
lbtand on n900 with no console ... it's hard to mess about15:44
Sage_the thing with connman is that it doesn't (or shouldn't based on the maintianers) do anything for kernel usb ethernet gadgets15:44
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lbtwhy do I as a user care if I plug in a usb network connection or an ethernet one15:45
Stskeepslbt, gadget, not usb network15:46
Stskeepsthere's a differenc15:46
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lbtah - I asked about NW and got reply about gadget ...  ?15:46
Stskeepsn900 is gadget15:46
Sage_the usb networking on N900 is done iwth gadget15:46
alteregoStskeeps: "And McDonalds, And metro" - lol15:47
alteregoOh that's right, it's in modprobe config.;15:47
lbtso connman works on one end of USB wire but not the other ?15:47
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alteregowb Venemo_N915:48
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Venemo_N9hey alterego :)15:48
Venemo_N9what's up?15:48
StskeepsSage_: honestly though, i think usb gadget support improved15:48
alteregoVenemo_N9: not a lot, chasing dialer issues at the moment. What are you up to?15:49
lbtso Stskeeps, what's the architecturally correct solution to pursue to get usb0 on the N900 on Mer when plugged into a usb_ether PC host?15:49
Stskeepslbt: usb gadgets are a bit special..15:49
lbtyeah, I get that :)15:49
Sage_Stskeeps: it might have haven't checked, but last time I asked it was like that and I think it was with connman 1.1 actually15:49
Stskeepslbt: i think connman should handle it better these days.15:49
lbtOK, I'll dig a little15:49
alteregoSeems to work with my N900 & N95015:49
Venemo_N9alterego, at the moment, on my way home. :P15:50
Venemo_N9alterego, generally, I'm looking for ways to help out :) Stskeeps already gave me the hints I needed.15:51
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Sage_lbt, Stskeeps: does mer has %{mer_version} in rpm?15:52
StskeepsSage_: check mer prjconf15:53
Stskeepsnot an exact one15:53
Stskeepshello KeyserSoze :)15:53
Sage_Stskeeps: ?15:53
lbtSage_: you mean an rpm macro15:53
KeyserSozeHi Stskeeps, do we know each other?15:53
ukasdoes mer use rpms or deb or something else? or is packaging tool even part of the mer-core?15:54
Sage_lbt: yes. like %if 0%{?suse_version} > 112015:54
Venemo_N9ukas, yes, rpm it is.15:54
lbtKeyserSoze: he's pathalogically friendly to newcomers15:54
StskeepsKeyserSoze: welcoming everybody, it's important to build community to make people feel welcome15:54
StskeepsKeyserSoze: so what brings you here to #mer? :)15:55
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KeyserSozelooking to find out if there's any possibility of qobject c++ or python code working in mer, or if it will be html5 and qdeclarative code only.15:55
Venemo_N9KeyserSoze, both of them work afaik15:56
StskeepsKeyserSoze: mer does c++ and qt fine, and i use pyside myself15:56
KeyserSozei really like Qt on the desktop, and was dissappointed to find I couldn't make an all QObject C++ application on my nokia N9.15:56
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Stskeepswell, it's rather QWidget that is a problem on mobile platforms15:56
Venemo_N9KeyserSoze, you can, but it just doesn't look/feel right15:56
KeyserSoze(well, i made a QtC++ app on my N9, but it looked like a desktop app with no skin to make the qui elements size right, and wouldn't autorotate)15:56
ukasKeyserSoze: same problem with pyqt15:57
StskeepsKeyserSoze: for mobile you need mobile ui's.. and typical widget paradigm doesn't always work right15:57
ukasbut you can use qstylesheet to make your own theme15:57
StskeepsQML, in my own personal opinion isn't bad15:57
ukasthats what we are doing right now15:57
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Stskeepsbut anyway, if you want to do mer with desktop ui on top, it's possible15:58
KeyserSozeukas: you're working on a stylesheet to make QWidget code look/work right on phones?15:58
ukasi wonder if qtc++ is as broken as pyqt, touch gestures have to be implemented, virtual keyboard works sometimes, and rotating aplication is pain in the ass15:58
ukasKeyserSoze: actually my coworker discovered that one and made the basic css file but yeah trying to make pyqt app look better in N9 right now using style sheet15:59
ukasit actually makes a world of difference just specifying some stuff for QWidget and QPushButton alone15:59
KeyserSozewhich project would the work required to get QWidget working in a phone-like manner go into, ideally?  Would it be in Qt itself, or mer, or this new jolla company, or a totally seperate thing?15:59
ukastotally separate thing16:00
KeyserSozeukas: cool!  do you have a link to more info?16:00
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Venemo_N9it takes less time to write qml than to make qwidgets look not ugly.16:00
StskeepsKeyserSoze: i personally think qml and qt components are most phone's preference16:00
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Stskeepsbut i don't want to weigh qml, qwidget or gtk or efl against eachother in here16:00
Venemo_N9generally, you can even share the same C++ backend between your uis16:01
ukasKeyserSoze: unfortunately not on our project, nda and other research hampering legalities :P, but you can find stuff on stylesheets from qt docs16:01
KeyserSozeStskeeps: do you use qml on the desktop too?16:01
KeyserSozeI've just always liked Qt in C++, and don't understand why a different language is necessary for writing phone apps.  i'd be happiest if all languages worked on all platforms.16:02
KeyserSoze(but i don't want to be argumentative, just looking for info)16:02
ukasi'd be happy if all mobile platforms supported c++ and python16:02
ukasbut no, everyone wants their own proprietory tools16:02
* KeyserSoze dislikes proprietary tools, and platform lock-in, too.16:03
Stskeepsyou can do qml with qt desktop components afaik16:03
Stskeepsthough not fas featureful as qwidget16:03
ukasKeyserSoze: what kind of application did you try to make with qtc++ for N9?16:03
KeyserSozeI tried to make a foreign language dictionary and vocabulary quiz application.16:03
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ukasmixing qml and c++/python might make for pretty powerfull tool, depending if you are prototyping or making final product16:04
M4rtinKI'm using QML + Python and like it quite a lot :)16:05
M4rtinKI'Ts also surprisingly multi-platform16:06
Venemo_N9I use C++ for my app logics and qml for ui. it works fine!16:06
lbtStskeeps: so discussing this in #connman with holtzmann16:06
alteregoSage_: what deps do you think need to be removed?16:08
alteregoI'm guessing meegotouch is one16:10
Sage_alterego: yes, also not sure how meegobluetooth is used?16:11
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alteregoSage_: hfp stuff, I'll have a look.16:11
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alteregoI'm not sure it is at the moment.16:11
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Venemo_N9does connman support wpa-eap?16:12
Sage_alterego: I think there is still that MTF legacy UI code there.16:12
alteregoneah, got removed aaaages ago16:13
alteregoI think the .spec is out of date tbh16:13
alteregoLet me just check in this new .spec and see. Seems to build with a load of lame deps removed.16:14
Sage_alterego: ah, also readme file probably outdated then :)16:14
alteregoMore than likely ;)16:14
alteregoI stopped working on it when Intel screwed me over by employing a load of contractors to work on the QML side of things.16:15
alteregoHe ended up breaking pretty much everything (the contractor) and then the code got dropper.16:15
Stskeepsits still in tizen ivi16:15
alteregoSome of it is.16:16
Stskeepsmaybe steal from there16:16
Sage_/home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILD/ruby-1.9.3-p194/lib/fileutils.rb:1371:in `initialize': Permission denied - /usr/bin/ruby1.9 (Errno::EACCES)16:16
alteregoStskeeps: do you know where the source is?16:16
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KeyserSozeM4rtinK: you said QML+Python is multi-platform... what platforms do you use it on?16:19
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Sage_hmmp... ruby tries to install binaries to filesystem not to buildroot16:21
M4rtinKKeyserSoze: I normally run my programs on the PC to test it16:21
M4rtinKand currently release for Fremantle and Harmattan16:21
M4rtinKthen I'm currently working on a port for Android16:22
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M4rtinK(I've finally run a PySide + QML program on an androdized HP Touchpad a few days ago)16:23
M4rtinKthere is a pretty active PySide port for BB1016:23
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M4rtinKand it shouldn't be hard to re-add the missing PySide package to Nemo - so it should be easy to use on Jolla in too (in the future)16:24
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alteregoSage_: sent request with updated .yaml & .spec16:26
M4rtinKonly things left out: Tizen (has Python though), IOS (too closed), Windows Phone (...) and WebOS (working on it, currently stuck on Qt compilation)16:26
alteregoThat's removed a few dependencies.16:26
M4rtinKKeyserSoze: that's basically it16:26
alteregomeegotouch qttracker meegobluetooth16:26
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KeyserSozeM4rtinK: oh, running the same app on android, that's cool!16:28
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KeyserSoze(I'm not necessarily an android fan, but if android developers start writing Qt apps, then they'd work on non-android phones too)16:29
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lbtStskeeps: so no usb gadget support other than tethering16:31
alteregoSage_: scrap that, there is still _some_ MTF stuff in there ..16:31
Stskeepslbt, ie, no 'set up static ip on gadget'?16:33
alteregoTime for a rewrite? lol16:33
M4rtinKKeyserSoze: the port is actually by THP, I'm just getting it to work & documenting it - for more info see: and my (work-in-progress) howto:
lbtStskeeps: correct16:33
lbtthat's "a broken model"16:34
Stskeepslbt: ok16:34
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Sage_alterego: well, at least now it compiles against CE:MW:MTF fine so I'm happy :)16:34
alteregoStrangely, I'm not sure it should O_o16:35
M4rtinKKeyserSoze: and yes, the basic PySide + QML demo works without modification - haven't run my apps just yet, but I'd guess they should also work fine once I get Qt Components running :)16:36
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alterego-rw-r--r-- 1 tswindell mer     0 Apr 23 16:56 tizen/hfdialer-0.3.4/README16:40
alteregoWell, that's informative.16:40
Stskeepshey shmerl16:40
shmerlI got some error when compiling Firefox for Vivaldi target: 'undefined reference to QTMLocationProvider'16:41
shmerlIs something missing from qt mobility devel?16:41
alteregowell, this is interesting ..16:41
Sage_alterego: :)16:41
Stskeepsshit might not be wired up16:42
Stskeepsshshmerl, that is16:42
alteregoAre they allowed to change the licensing on my code?!16:42
shmerlDoes it require some additional packages? Or changes in the qt mobility one?16:42
Stskeepsalterego: isn't iot apl2?16:43
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alteregoStskeeps: yes, but it should say Copyright Tom Swindell and not Intel Coorporation16:43
alterego * Copyright 2012 Intel Corporation.16:44
alterego .... Yeah right ..16:44
Stskeepsalterego: ah.. it's always a mess with headers16:44
alteregoThey've intentionally set those header.16:45
Stskeepsso typical legal review crap16:45
alteregoThere's still a couple with my name on, but they all should have my name on.16:45
Stskeepsfile a bug16:45
Stskeepsagainst tizen16:45
alteregoI dunno, they're probably allowed to because they've done a load of refactoring?16:47
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shmerlSo it's something missing in qt mobility?16:47
shmerlAnd how that can be fixed?16:47
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alteregoStill clearly my original design.16:48
* alterego sighs16:48
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alteregoI guess it's mine, until they change a few lines.16:48
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timophI'd file a bug for it16:49
shmerlAbout qt mobility?16:50
alteregoThey'll probably resolve with "Ah, thanks we forgot to remove your name from _every_ file..."16:50
timophshmerl: no. the alterego's thing16:50
lbt :)16:50
shmerlAh, np.16:51
Stskeepsalterego: 'we thought you were a contractor'?16:51
alteregoI don't even know why it's rustled my Jimmys' so badly.16:52
lbtit's rude16:52
Stskeepsdunno, prolly more useful to spend energy at doing a better job16:52
lbtfile a bug to register the point and leave it at that ... ?16:53
alteregoI don't even have an account on the tizen BZ, so not sure I can be arsed.16:53
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alteregoIt kind of doesn't make much sense to me, why would the actively replace my headers in some files but not others.16:54
alteregoIt's clearly the same files, but they16:54
alteregohave just been heavily edited.16:54
alteregoMaybe it's a % change allows them to do that.16:54
alteregoI'm sure they'd prefer to have their name on it ..16:54
alterego*rant over*16:54
alteregoI'm going to turn this anger into energy to code a better dialer ..16:55
timophalterego: that's the way to do it16:57
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Stskeepsphaeron: thanks will test when home from mother in law16:57
Stskeepshello AstroAk :)16:57
AstroAkHi Stskeeps! how's everything?16:58
StskeepsAstroAk: quite good, thanks :) welcome! so what brings you here to #mer?16:59
AstroAkJust caught the story on PC Mag for MeeGO. I've been reading on the OS for sometime hoping it was going to be an alternative to iOS and Android. Glad to see it back in Development.17:00
StskeepsAstroAk: sure :) if you have any questions on Mer, or would like to know how to contribute, feel free to ask at any time :) else feel free to hang out and learn/watch/etc17:01
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* alterego starts working on new nemobile-dialer17:03
Sage_alterego: typo by purpose or accident? ;)17:03
alteregopurpose :P17:04
alteregoI was thining nemobiler :)17:04
* Sage_ curses .spec files and not working # marks in lines17:04
AstroAkwhat is your opinion on the current phones available. Is there one in particular that I should be looking at?17:04
alteregoSage_: yeah, screwed things up for me17:04
alteregoAstroAk: N9 :) It's a collectors item :)17:04
ukasalterego: dialer as in the phone app? :)17:05
alteregoukas: yes,17:05
w00talterego: new dialer, eh?17:05
w00tyou gave up on the old one? :P17:05
alteregow00t: it's what I'm thinking.17:05
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alteregow00t: not entirely, but without Intel calling the shots it just makes sense to gut it properly.17:06
w00twell, yes17:06
alteregoSo new project, with the good bits ripped out.17:06
alteregoGet rid of that stupid convention17:06
alteregonemo-phone ?17:07
alteregoand nemo-phone-ui?17:07
w00t(shouldn't this be on #nemomobile?)17:07
alteregoyeah, probably.17:07
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iekkuyes :)17:08
alteregoI don't want it nemo specific though, I'll just call it ophono :)17:08
AstroAk@alterego Thanks! I'll look into that17:08
Stskeepshello astro72 :)17:08
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Stskeepsastro72: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?17:09
shmerlIs there anything really besides N9 now? Until Jolla will release something, there isn't much to choose from really.17:09
Aardalterego: hrm, when you're doing it from scratch, would you be interested on some jolla input..? ;)17:09
alteregoAard: indeed.17:09
astro72just trying out nemo for the first time on N900 and can't get it past the boot screen17:09
alteregoAard: I'm going to look through my current dailer implementation/status, and think properly how it should be implemented.17:10
alteregoAard: if you'd like to put me in touch with those that may already be working on this in Jolla?17:11
Aardalterego: I am, that's why I'm asking ;)17:11
alteregoOh, awesome :)17:11
AstroAkN9 is a good looking phone and a Pentaband which is even better.17:11
alteregoerm, how would you like to proceed?17:11
lbtholy crap... it actually worked :)17:12
alteregolbt: usb net?17:12
lbtwifi on n900 using connman config file17:13
lbtwhich means I have a console to hack on usb0/tethering17:13
lbtalso means I can lose loads of connman-test scripting to bring up wifi for tests on exopc too17:14
* lbt checks he's not logged into exopc by mistake17:14
astro72Stskeeps: any ideas what I should do? I have a couple of errors displayed on the screen such as hci_h4p: "FW error" and "Sending firmware failed"17:15
Stskeepsastro72: thats usually ok17:15
lbtmer needs a "make my device do something visible so I know what black box on my desktop I'm connected to" tool17:15
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astro72Stskeeps: it seems it's also on a boot loop of some kind17:16
Stskeepsastro72: try to rewrite iamage17:16
Stskeepsyou use uboot?17:16
astro72i will try that rewriting17:17
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astro72is class 4 card ok for this?17:17
Stskeepsand make sure your computer doesnt automount before writing17:17
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astro72i'm on winXp17:17
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astro72Stskeeps: now it gives "bad data CRC" so I guess I'll have to download the whole image again :P17:33
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Stskeepsbad sd?17:33
astro72don't know, I will try to download the image once again17:34
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Sage_lbt: you shall be happy soon ;)17:53
MerBotSage_: Error: No closing quotation17:54
Sage_MerBot: you think? ;)17:54
MerBotSage_: Error: "you" is not a valid command.17:54
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Sage_lbt: so what works in opensuse for ruby packaging doesn't work for us because of that patch check in sb or something?17:55
lbtalterego: you can help him out :)17:59
alteregoUrgh, it needs tcltk?18:00
Stskeepsyes, what the heck is it that uses tcl?18:00
alteregoruby has bindings for tk18:01
alteregoProbably need to remove the --with-tk ./configure flag or something18:01
timophone would think you can leave it out18:01
* timoph is slow18:01
alteregoSage_: remove the build requirement for tk-devel18:01
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alteregoand the ruby tk package18:02
Sage_ok. Well I can do that sure18:02
alteregoIn fact, if you just comment out the ruby tk package bit it should work fine.18:02
lbtgitk uses it I think - so I'm happy to have it in Tools18:03
alteregoDo we need all that valgrind stuff too?18:03
lbttk is incredibly old+stable so there should be a very low maintenance burden18:03
alteregolooks optional anyway.18:03
alteregolbt: sure, but I don't think we need it? It's either comment out or add tk into mer repos ;)18:04
lbtI don't mind - I was looking forward to getting gitk in but I'm not worried18:04
vinscismaller mem footprint, faster device. W/ tk, the opposite18:04
lbtvinsci: sure18:04
alteregoI have nothing against tk18:05
alteregoIt's an optional requirement and a seperate package as far as Ruby is concerned, it's just that .spec expected it.18:05
alteregoWe can always build it with that part reenabled at a later date when you've packaged Tk :P18:05
* Sage_ drops it for now less stuff to package18:06
Stskeepsvinsci: we keep some stuff in tools/sdk..stuff not to go into production images, but useful for debugging/performance work/sdk18:06
vinsciStskeeps, I see.18:06
Stskeepsas our sdk is actually a small mer18:07
lbtit's a UX!18:07
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alteregoIt's a product :P18:11
alteregoIt's a self-replicating product!18:11
mikhasdid I hear product? ship it!18:11
mikhasalterego, careful, or it might go …18:11
alteregoMer works for Mer!18:11
alteregomikhas: the paradox is already open, it will last forever :)18:11
mikhasmer, the new paradOS18:12
mikhasman, I did too much marketing lately18:12
Stskeepsi'd say you got quite good at it, too18:12
mikhasthanks (I guess?)18:13
Stskeepsyes, it was a compliment :)18:13
mikhas"$ whois" reggie being … reggie ;-)18:14
Stskeepsi conjure up an image about a small boat and two finns talking, while downing korsenkorva shots..18:17
lbtStskeeps: Jaeger please!18:19
astro72ahh, can't get past boot screen. I changed the card, re-downloaded the image and now cursor just blinks on the nemo boot screen and sequentially briefly displays terminal with some text "recovery mode" etc. can't really see what else it says...18:19
Stskeepsastro72: sounds like a sour microsd18:20
alteregoStskeeps: with a burning oil rig in the background?18:23
alteregoAnd the Finns are meegons?18:23
alteregoThat's what I was thinking!!18:23
iekkuStskeeps, it's koskenkorva18:24
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astro72or Kossu :)18:27
mikhasthey should be fishing, too18:28
saunabadand not talking18:28
* iekku was fishing fri-sat night18:28
mikhasdefinitely not talking18:28
iekkuno kossu involved18:28
iekkuand almost speaked also18:28
mikhasperhaps texting each other … using their brand-new jolla handsets18:29
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iekkuplace for the jolla texting and drinkin kossu at small boat:
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iekkudo we have a user story hear?18:34
lbt"once upon a time, there was a small, furry meegon...."18:35
mikhasnot enough titanic yet18:37
lbt"once upon a time, there was a titanic, furry meegon...."18:38
mikhasleo and kate, just having escaped from the drowning platform18:38
mikhasand then leo proceeds to give kate his jolla smartphone (with all the pictures of their brief but intense relationship), before succumbing to the cold waters18:39
mikhascant get much better marketing than that, really18:39
mikhasmeh, it's too easy18:39
lbtso how's the zaurus doing these days mikhas?18:39
saunabada feature that would require to solve a puzzle before being able to make a call during weekends would be cool18:40
saunabadthat would reduce the drunk calls18:40
mikhas(never ever used a zaurus)18:40
mikhas"Made for Finns (but others, too)"18:41
iekkusaunabad, or make the ones coming even angrier18:41
mikhasif the phone detects a drunk user, it should just call the taxi, submitting position via gps18:41
mikhasand of course it also knows where you live18:42
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iekku"oh, joy, i'm at home. yesterday i was 500km from home"18:43
saunabadmy htc thinks i'm in taiwan all the time. that kind of bug would become expensive18:44
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arcolpretty nice. Many members in this channel. Just browsed through the irc log, since a few months back (or thats about the time I neglected this channel and nemomobile)18:55
Stskeepsarcol: welcome then :)18:55
arcolI hope the best for you guys. I always had the feeling #nemomobile is just demo qt apps throwed together. And I know why was that, #jollamobile :)18:55
iekkuarcol, nemo has longer history18:56
arcollonger then mer?18:56
iekkuit used to be nokia's community edition for meego18:56
iekkuwhen it left nokia, name changed to nemo18:56
Stskeepswell, mer is older than meego, but that's another story :)18:57
iekkutrue :)18:57
Stskeepsarcol: the ux itself is fairly good though18:57
mikhasas long as can iterate and improve, it'll work out18:57
mikhaswith Nokia, we got really good at writing platforms from scratch …18:58
Stskeepswhich reminds me we should update maliit..18:58
mikhas*as we can18:58
arcolStskeeps: you know it lacks the "supervised" part. As with any linux gui. Some programwirters thinks that some others. And you dont have something consequent. Something you can expect along all programs. So I can call it not polished, but thats just me18:58
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Stskeepsarcol: nemo's not polished, agreed18:58
mikhasI wouldn't recommend recent 0.9x series of Maliit18:59
mikhaswe keep breaking plugins API etc18:59
arcolyou know the silly ithicing bugs, like in n900 when you type a name it does not do a full text search, but a match at the beginning of the names of your contact list. Its a minor caveat, but annoying like hell (when you need to browse through 300+ contacts as everything is thrown together (skype, phone contacts, email contacts)18:59
Stskeepsarcol: i do :)19:00
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mikhasarcol, same on the N9, sadly19:00
Stskeepsarcol: for nemo we haven't had a team working to truly productize it, but the actual technology works fairly well19:00
mikhasI'd be really interested to see the raw performance of QML2, Qt5 on top of Wayland.19:01
Stskeepsi'd love to see maliit in that combo, too19:01
mikhasrendering should be efficient enough to have an effect on battery life19:01
arcolI always save contacts like this FirstnameLastnameSOME_COMMENTS_SO_I_REMEMBER_THE_GUY: AngelinaJolyNEWGF, JoeBakerPIPEGUY19:01
mikhaswell, you've been following #wayland, so you probably know our plans ;-)19:02
Stskeepsmikhas: i'm working on qml compositor integration for sgx/n950/n9, so maybe we can test that way..19:02
Stskeepson actual hw19:02
mikhasnice, can you benchmark power consumption then?19:02
Stskeepshmm, good question, not sure how much i can do without tools we used to have in the team19:02
Stskeepsmaybe bme has some nice outputs..19:03
mikhasyeah :-(19:03
mikhasbut we could always just ask eero19:03
arcolso full text search is a daysaver. But its only a minor bug (which is actually a dealbreaker for new phone purchase.). So polishing is important, look at iphone, everything behaves about the same. And its polished. Looks like someone tried and used for months19:03
Stskeepsarcol: speaking to the choir19:03
Stskeepsa proper product obviously needs to done right :)19:04
mikhasStskeeps, with wayland compositor integration, we should be able to reduce roundtrips for virtual keyboard usage, too. on n9, when VKB is up, raw rendering performance drops by as much as 40%19:05
mikhasand that's after we improved it …19:06
arcolalso what I think was fundamentally wrong with maemo and meego, is the lack of phones. They should have pushed out bunch of phones, after all nokia was a phone maker.19:06
Stskeepsarcol: yeah. harmattan really held back mattes.19:06
mikhasApple conquered the mobile world with one model at a time19:06
mikhasfocus is also important19:06
arcolI hope jollamobile will do at least release a high end and a middle or low-end phone. So it can spread, and break out of the nich market19:07
mikhasStskeeps, and regarding CJK: check the wayland ML, our first patches there already got the interest of a Pinyin input method developer ;-)19:08
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mikhasarcol, I see the main advantage in being able to use a modern yet kind-of minimal stack for the OS19:08
arcolmikhas: I know bunch of guys who are simply not that rich to buy that expensive phone. And nokia was really a phone maker, they did hundreds of different model each year from 10USD to 1000USD19:09
mikhasI know what you mean, but most folks that *I* know with an iphone these days haven't paid the full price either19:09
arcoland yet they released the future OS in high-end model only. How it could takeover the symbian models then? I know its now obsolate, as elop killed symbian in a really dumb way, but anyway19:10
mikhastoo many models also make it harder to choose the right model for you, the subways dilemma where you starve before having made your choice19:10
chouchouneand, "less rich" people tend to be the ones having an iPhone (for the people I know, at least)19:10
mikhasyeah, it's becoming more and more of a blue collar phone19:11
arcolmikhas: Im marketing only for two or three model most. A full featured geek phone like the n900 was. (hardware keyboard and everything is packed into what was available at that time). An elegant phone what the N9 was. And also an el-cheapo model so people can try out the jollamobile feeling before they go for the highend product19:11
chouchounearcol: if you have a low end model from the beginning, you break all you high end thing19:12
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arcolchouchoune: why?19:12
chouchounepeople will buy the low end device and say it's not usable and so on ...19:12
mikhasnokia in the US was always perceived as el-cheapo19:12
mikhasprecisely because you could only got low-end symbian phones19:13
arcolchouchoune: make it usable. Its a lowend phone you cant expent FM transmitter, FM receiver, etc, etc. with it.19:13
chouchouneIMO, if you want to enter the high end market, you should avoid low end at least at the beginning19:13
chouchounearcol: if it's as usable as you high end device, why would people buy the high end19:14
arcolwell, highend three years ago (hardware wise) its a lowend these days. But still can perform awesome.19:14
chouchouneand few people now care about FM things19:14
arcolchouchoune: because its a carbone case? because its elegant?19:15
chouchounemmmhhh, design ... yes could be19:15
chouchounebut it has to be a big difference between the 2 devices if it's just a differenciation in the design19:16
arcolchouchoune: n900 was really a geek phone. These days I would expect a new n900 phone also packing more stuff (hardware wise) inside. Like NFC, compass, barometer, etc, etc. But you cant sell that modell just to the really geeky people. (I would buy one instantly!)19:16
mikhasI am siding with chouchoune here: when the iphone2 was announced, iphone1 sales spiked (because of the osborne-enforced price drop)19:17
chouchouneyes, I think a geek phone like N950/n900 with keyword and so on and a "sexy" phone like the N9 could be launched togetehr19:17
mikhas=> you get your el-cheapo by constantly releasing new high-end models every year19:17
arcoli never liked N9 for that reason (hardware keyboard, microsd). I went into shops and touched it for hours. Besides, I could not get a terminal on it, so it was the other point19:17
chouchounebut in the same price range19:17
shmerlN950 could be a geek phone too, if it'd be publically sold.19:17
mikhasterminal? just a matter of activating developer mode19:18
arcolmikhas: dunno, I also missed a really good browser too. pinch to zoom, etc.19:18
arcolI expected it in .txt viewer and pdf viewer also19:18
mikhasyeah, I liked microb more than grob, too19:18
mikhaswell, the document viewers have zoom19:19
arcolI could not zoom into the gpl license agreement or what text was available on the phone in the shop. So I figured it is not polished either as my n900, so no point switching to it19:19
arcolalso I like the hardware slide for camera19:19
chouchounewhat GPL agreement ?19:19
chouchounein the preferences ?19:20
mikhasyep, that was a brilliant design decision for the n90019:20
mikhasjumps directly to the camera app19:20
arcolchouchoune: I hardly remember. I was looking for something to read and try out the pinch to zoom feature.19:20
mikhasand you could install an app that would warn you if you left camera slide open by accident19:20
mikhasactually, circle-to-zoom on the n900 beats pinch-to-zoom every day19:21
mikhasbut of course, apple is always right …19:21
chouchouneand the N9 is too beautiful, you're scared to break it ;)19:21
arcolmikhas: really usefull, and works awesomely. When the phone is overwhelmed it still launch the camera app19:21
mikhassee, I would have liked to have the lumia hardware, if only for the extra button on the side that the n9 could have used for the camera …19:22
arcolmikhas: circle to zoom is aweful. it drags the text over until it activates the zoom. Its really a workaround for resistive display.19:22
mikhasit's one-finger friendly19:22
mikhas=> one-hand usage19:22
mikhasI wouldnt call it a workaround19:22
arcolmikhas: until it activates (ie. recognise the gesture) it simply drags the display19:22
mikhasbut what both browsers were missing was text reflow19:22
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arcolaweful experience, even when you one handed.19:23
ngharoI can't get Mer running in VirtualBox.  I've tried building my own image and also the prebuild with llvmpipe.  Everytime it boots I just get a black screen, which I assume is X failing to load.19:23
mikhasarcol, you can easily optimize that19:23
ngharoany pointers?19:23
arcoltext reflow, yepp I expected that for pinch to zoom. That was the exact reason to search for text. To try out.19:23
arcolpinch to zoom is really intuitive. this circle thing is aweful.19:24
chouchouneI prefer double tap19:24
arcolI used on n900, but awful. I more use the hardware volume buttons instead of this circle thing19:24
chouchounecomparing to both pinch to zoom and circle19:24
arcolbut its really two handed (hardware volume button)19:25
arcolchouchoune: yes, but its not continous. Ie. you double-tap for zoom-in mode. not magnification as you like. (ie. a bit bigger, a bit smaller). Its really discreet.19:26
arcoljollamobile times-out the whole day. Why not a simple .html page while slashdotting?19:26
mikhaschouchoune, that's what I use all hte time ;-)19:28
shmerlI was rather trying http://jolla.fi19:28
shmerlDoesn't time out, but nothing there.19:28
arcolshmerl: dont have permissionto access / on server19:28
shmerlYep. They didn't make any sites so far.19:29
arcolI think they underexpected the peek. Apache is always a bad choice. They should have just put online a static html page preferably with nginx:)19:29
Aardarcol: no, we don't have a page up yet, but expect one soon.19:30
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arcolannouncement ahead of time? Or everything else in late:)19:31
arcoltimeout does not explained thuogh.19:31
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Stskeepsarcol, nah, just different kind of launch :)19:32 seems to be the domain19:32
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arcolStskeeps: are you in charge of the webserver?:)19:33
arcolseems like this jollamobile thing is the plan-B of nokia. Just going behind the microsoft agreement19:34
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lbtngharo: I don't have a step-by-step for virtualbox yet19:34
Aardarcol: we're not related to nokia, apart from the fact that we used to work for nokia.19:35
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arcolAard: yeah, just there was not even a week ago, when some news spread across the internet: Nokia has a plan-B in case of windows mobile fails. (which is clever, as windows mobile will fail the 8. version in row... If it does not fail, would be bigger surprise, as it breaks the series of failure)19:36
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arcoland now this jollamobile announcement.:)19:37
Aardyes, we did the same joke before, but as far as I know we're not nokias plan b ;)19:37
ngharolbt: ok, np.  Thanks for the reply19:37
timophall this jolla speculation needs it's own channel19:37
shmerlWell this one is still up:
arcoland a tweet like this from jollamobile: "We have been hiring and continue to do that, in co-operation with Nokia.         "19:37
shmerlThere used to be lot's of those :D19:38
Aardtimoph: -> #jollamobile ;)19:38
Stskeepsyep, let's move jolla stuff to #jollamobile19:38
Stskeepswe do core work here :)19:38
lbtngharo: can you get ssh in ?19:38
Stskeepsngharo: show me .ks please19:38
arcolStskeeps: it is just some days, while the hysterial is up. No need a separate channel.19:38
Stskeepsarcol: there's already one :)19:38
arcolyou get at least some activity here from outsiders:)19:38
shmerlAard: Will you collaborate with Plasma Active in any way?19:39
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Jake9xxSage_: ping19:39
Aardshmerl: we're openly working on mer, and nemo (which contains shared middleware). does that count as collaboration? ;)19:39
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ngharolbt, Stskeeps: got a conference call.  I'll check it out in a bit19:40
Stskeepsngharo: alright19:41
shmerlYes, for the handset targets at least for sure.19:41
Stskeepsarcol: is just the way we operate.. common work on core, communities are in their community irc channels :) such as #active, etc, that way we avoid GTK vs Qt discussions, etc :P19:41
shmerlPA mostly works on the tablet form factor now.19:41
chouchouneStskeeps: don't feed the troll yourself ;)19:41
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Stskeepschouchoune: let's not resort to calling people trolls :)19:42
arcolStskeeps: there are not much community yet I think. I was just dropping by, to feed my news hungry19:42
Stskeepsarcol: sure :)19:42
shmerlAard: If you'd add an open source e-mail client to Nemo, that would be already a good step :)19:43
Stskeepshey donex :)19:43
arcolI will jump onto the wagon, once its usable, every-day I mean. I used openmoko for almost two years as my primary phone, and was a painful experience mostly. So Im a bit calmed down this days.19:43
arcolHave a nice evening guys. Bye19:44
Stskeepsarcol: sounds like a good plan. see you around19:44
timophthere isn't an email client in nemo? I thought it had one.19:44
Aardtimoph: nothing usable, though qmf is in place which makes doing an email client not a too difficult task19:45
timophyep. should be a fun summer project for someone willing to contribute19:46
shmerlA pity Nokia can't open source their Harmattan client. It's not perfect, but quite usable19:46
Stskeepsphaeron: not sure if you've tipped over and fallen asleep on the keyboard, will look into it..19:46
Aardtimoph: yep, and obviously we're more then willing to guide anyone who wants to contribute, in any way...19:46
Aardshmerl: if you'd seen the source code for the client you'd say 'thank god they're not opensourcing it' ;)19:46
timophyou're tempting me :)19:47
shmerlAard: Ah, a WW I tank made of compressed bugs?-)19:47
arcolAard: you mean the lack of any threading and the painful waiting everywhere? :)19:47
Aardnot only that19:48
shmerl(That's xiphmont's term for cinelerra ;)19:48
arcolalso forwarding creates its own attachment?:) When you reply you cant automatically attach the original attachments?19:48
Stskeepsthreading, pfft, we use coroutines and interrupt-driven e-mail fetching19:48
lbtgrumble.... lua scripts in rpm don't like # comment lines ... which does not play well with spectacle19:48
M4rtinKwhat about trojita ?
lbtStskeeps: I thought we handled email in the GPU now ?19:48
phaeronStskeeps: nope still alive19:48
arcolthey should have learn something from gmail user interface. They manage to avoid lags voer the network, while the mail client on n900 has full of lags everywhere even when its local19:48
M4rtinKIIRC it has a recently added QML GUI19:49
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Stskeepsphaeron: no syntax errors, a good start :)19:49
shmerltrojita looks good, but maintainers weren't interested in Mer so far.19:49
shmerlAlso Trojita doesn't support SSL I think.19:49
Aardis trojita using qmf?19:49
shmerlSo it's not serious yet.19:49
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mikhasshmerl, timoph: perhaps you guys should talk to vdvsx about email clients19:50
Aardno, not qmf, which imo is a bit silly, since that hands you quite a lot of the tricky bits when doing an email client for free, _and_ you can easily expand your client to support different protocols19:51
shmerlE-mail client is rather involved thing. If you want to support all the features like IMAP IDLE, SSL and so on.19:51
lbtshmerl: most of that should be in middleware19:52
mikhasthat's why you should talk to the guy who was team lead for email on the n9 ;-)19:52
Aardlbt: most of that is in qmf, which we have ;)19:52
mikhashe also contributed to qmf, I think19:52
lbtAard: yeah, the non-MVC QML issue19:52
mikhashas anyone of you actually tried geary?19:52
phaeronStskeeps: come on I tested it here :)19:52
Aardmikhas: of course, the harmattan email builds on qmv19:52
arcolI would like to see an additional jollamobile/mer button on that site: Actually this will the only dealbreaker thing for my next phone...19:53
shmerlit doesn't look like handset oriented (geary)19:53
Stskeepsmikhas: it can't impossibly be worse than thunderbird.. :P19:53
Stskeepsmikhas: looks interesting19:53
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Stskeepsthough i do most of my stuff on gmail or n9 these days19:54
mikhasno, not really, but it feels great on the desktop, even though it's 0.1 and you cant do email attachments even19:54
Stskeepsi vote we go back to Modest19:54
mikhasI was there visiting the yorba guys when they did the release ;-)19:54
shmerlWell, desktop has no lack of good clients ;)19:54
shmerlA pity Mozilla froze TB development though...19:54
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vinsciwhat's wrong with emacs -f rmail?19:55
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arcolshmerl: yeah, when they managed to actually release maildir support in their earlybird (alpha channel)19:55
arcolI was waiting for it for *8* years. Finally its working19:55
ali1234if we're being silly, i vote for dalvik layer and gmail app19:55
chouchounearcol: as they say, it's a final product now : no need for improvements ;)19:55
Aardali1234: why not windows vm with outlook?19:56
ali1234(and maps, youtube, g+...)19:56
chouchouneali1234: what for, GMail web app is enough : you just need 3G all the time19:56
arcolchouchoune: I migrated mailbox for 4 days for maildir. There is no gui, you need to drag-and-drop for importing and exporting. Pain in the ass, especially over network drive...19:56
ali1234no, the apps are much better, at least the android versions are. the versions they make for other platforms are terrible19:57
chouchounearcol: yes I know, just making fun of their argument19:57
shmerlIf you manage several servers, web application is useless.19:57
arcolchouchoune: and seriously writing message is always in new window, and no new tab? And the bug for it is like 4 years old already?19:57
shmerlYou need a normal client essentially.19:57
Stskeepsarcol: out of curiousity, are you a designer?19:57
arcolchouchoune: its not a final product by any standard19:57
* alterego contemplates new name for dialer app19:58
alteregoWell, voice call suite I guess :)19:58
Stskeepsalterego: bananaphone?19:58
ali1234Stskeeps you beat me to it19:58
arcolStskeeps: Im not a designer, so I rather stop complaining/bitching/noising.19:59
Stskeepsarcol: nah, i was just curious :)19:59
chouchounearcol: actually, I like the user interface of Thunderbird (better than other clients at least), but it definitely lacks functionalities19:59
alteregoofono-call-agent ofono-call-ui ? :)19:59
shmerlThey never got up to the point of making a mobile UI for it.19:59
lbtI like thunderbird ... I just wish they'd heard of threading19:59
shmerlAnd now it's just frozen19:59
chouchouneshmerl: they believe the web is the platform20:00
Stskeepsarcol: personally i'm brought up profesionally with participatory design, so little gripes does matter20:00
shmerlNo, it's a side reason.20:00
chouchounesi email app would be "web based"20:00
shmerlI think the real one - tight resources.20:00
lbtchouchoune: web-based browser anyone?20:00
chouchoune"Makes sense" in their mind20:00
shmerlThey just want to put more forice into the B2G20:00
chouchounelbt: how is it done in Firefox OS ?20:00
mikhasit's called firefoxOS now20:01
shmerlYep, aka Firefox OS.20:01
Stskeepsphaeron: Magic number checking on storable file failed at ../../lib/ (autosplit into ../../lib/auto/Storable/ line 380, at line 53120:01
chouchouneI belive the "browser" is made with web technologies20:01
arcolStskeeps: I would love to be a dictator in a phone development, and make it as seemless as iphone was in its time:) But I would need to be a head of a company to have a word, and everyone would follow me in the sinking boat. (which is actually a submarine:)20:01
Stskeepsphaeron: and scheduler crashed20:01
ali1234is it really called firefoxOS now?20:01
Stskeepsphaeron: don't think it's your fault though, i've seen that before this patch20:01
chouchouneali1234: yes20:02
ali1234wow, ok. it looks pretty good though...20:02
ali1234"gonk" lol20:03
chouchouneanyone looked at if it would be possible to extract their OS from Android stack ?20:03
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chouchouneAs far as I understood, only their "Gonk" layer is tight to Android20:03
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ali1234it looks like the only android stuff is some kernel patches20:04
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phaeronStskeeps: hmm didn't see that here20:06
ali1234perhaps the rild stuff too, though they use a proxy, i'm sure that could be adapted for ofono20:07
alteregoarcol: good luck getting signal under the water :P20:09
phaeronStskeeps: did you try again ?20:12
Stskeepsphaeron: cold restart..20:14
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lpotterthe QtSensors guys have always been afraid of sensorfw. too much overhead and too complicated20:22
Stskeepswhat alternatives do you propose, fwiw?20:22
lpottersomething more streamlined for sure.20:23
Stskeepscontributions welcome :)20:24
lpotterthats my one big issue with meego code: its more complicated than it needs to be20:24
lpotterI will freely contribute once I dont have to go trough lawyers to do so :(20:25
Stskeepsthat's the vibe i have going from MTF to QML for instance.. that things has really gotten much less complicated than it has been in the past20:25
* lbt looks at trying to bring up usb0 with connman and does *NOT* disagree20:25
lpotteryes, QML is like that. but much of the middleware is20:25
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Stskeepslpotter: :nod:20:27
lpotterit should scale better downwards, IMHO. down as in less specs20:27
Stskeepsphaeron: trying to enable buildsl20:27
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lpotterneed to get a new battery for my netbook20:28
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lbtpackage mer-not-a-ux-0.1-1.armv7hl is intended for a different architecture20:31
lbtpackage mer-not-a-ux-0.1-2.1.armv7hl (which is newer than mer-not-a-ux-0.1-1.armv7hl) is already installed20:31
lbtthis is a minimal Mer on N90020:32
Stskeepsok, well20:32
Stskeepsthat's whythen20:32
lbt*nod* ... bug20:32
lbtdoing a minimal install is showing a few gaps20:33
* lbt rubs eyes20:33
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phaeronStskeeps: what ?20:34
phaeronwhat do you mean20:34
Stskeepsphaeron: a scheduler crash == cold restart needed20:34
Stskeepsso it had to recheck all projects20:35
Stskeepsit's up again now, so renabling20:35
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phaeronok. I am not sure what does that have to do with disabled builds :)20:36
Stskeepsphaeron: ah.. well, enabling builds after copyprj20:36
phaeronyou don't need to disable build or publish in source project if you used the full patch , it does that automatically20:37
Stskeepsphaeron: yeah, but it's disabled in the final project20:37
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chouchounedoes the bugzilla give qn OpenID for Gerrit ?20:37
Stskeepsie, the target project, right20:37
Stskeepschouchoune: no, it's not currently integrated20:37
chouchouneStskeeps: ok, thanks20:37
phaeronStskeeps: there's a bug where the frontend still says that build and publish are disabled but they are not. just tell it to take default so it fixed the frontend state20:38
phaeronlook at the meta and you will see they are not disabled20:38
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Stskeepsphaeron: succeeded: 34920:39
* Stskeeps hugs phaeron 20:39
phaeronStskeeps: try again for good measure :)20:39
Stskeepsi wouldn't be me if i wasn't already doing that20:39
phaeronand then try changing the link20:40
phaeronlink target20:40
Stskeepsright now i'm not doing link change, just copying project first20:40
Stskeepsie, the mer non-link form20:40
Stskeepswith all packages being linkpacs20:40
phaeronoh linkpacs , didn't know :)20:40
phaeronI just built the whole mer and then copyprjed it 25 times :)20:41
Stskeepswhy do you think i want a new solution20:41
Stskeepsa lot of management20:41
phaeronit's a lot faster now too , I wouldn't stand testing it if it wasn't20:42
* phaeron hopes it works the second and third time :)20:42
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Stskeepsphaeron: yeah, this could be awesome for fast CI20:43
phaeroninstead of making n=#packages requests from srcserver -> repserver , the repserver asks for list of packages from srcserver and copies them in one go20:44
* phaeron eagerly waits for test results20:44
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shmerlStskeeps: So getting back to that undefined reference to QTMLocationProvider, do you have any ideas how to fix that?20:47
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Stskeepsshmerl: qt-mobility-devel installed?20:48
shmerlOtherwise the configure step fails.20:48
Stskeepsshmerl: it might simply be that it's not enabled in mer..20:48
Stskeepsfile a bug please20:48
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chouchouneis there a "noob program" ? ;) Or bugs for new people willing to contribute ?20:52
Stskeepschouchoune: sure, topic :)20:53
chouchouneoups, didn't read ;)20:53
Stskeeps'low' tasks are usually good20:53
Stskeepsas they're mostly cosmetic20:53
Stskeepsbut still needed to be done, they get you into package contribution, review, etc easily20:54
chouchouneStskeeps: yep, don't know how much time will take my first contribution so better do a low task ;)20:54
Stskeepshopefully not that long, mer contribution is centered around a 'off the street' contribution principle20:54
chouchounelet's see ;)20:55
lbthmm :)20:55
lbtStskeeps: using lua based %post20:55
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lbtavoids spawning bash during rpm -i20:57
* CosmoHill will start working on Lightspark one day20:57
lbtif we do this a lot then quickbuild should get a fair bit quicker, as should img build and any upgrades etc20:58
CosmoHillStskeeps: was that at me?20:58
lbtwe may want to assemble a lua lib to make common tasks easy20:59
Stskeepslbt: perhaps make spectacle use lua for some things?20:59
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lbtyeah ... it annoyingly conflicts with spectacle # chars20:59
lbtso a %post -p <lua> has to end on the next % section ... no comments, no #<<< stuff21:00
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Stskeepsphaeron: success on second try too21:07
phaeronvery cool21:07
Stskeepsphaeron: it does re-check the project 2-3 times though21:07
Stskeepssee log on be21:07
Stskeepsbut now i gotta get some sleep21:07
Stskeepsphaeron: awesome work21:07
Stskeepsand thank you21:07
phaeronyeah I haven't found the minimal amount of events needed21:07
phaeronStskeeps: glad it's starting to work finally21:08
phaeronnow to just clean it up21:08
phaeronI'll need some help from lbt on that21:08
Stskeepsi'm also happy as i can begin prototyping the BOSS side of things as well21:09
lbtwe could do with rolling out a new boss before too long21:09
Stskeepsthat should be done firs21:10
phaeronlbt: you mean deploying ?21:10
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lbtwell, a review of where we are with it21:14
lbtupstream syn21:14
lbtand a deploy to CI21:14
lbtmaybe not COBS until X-Fade has time to review things21:14
lbtbasically make it a touch more releasable and maintained21:15
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lbtdon't worry21:15
lbttomorrow is fine21:15
lbtyou can sleep tonight21:15
* lbt backs away ... "good doggy^H^H^H^Hdeveloper"21:16
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phaeroncan you help with cleaning the patch ?21:17
lbtI just got my mer-not-a-ux kinda working on the N90021:17
lbtno shader though21:17
lbtw00t: ping21:18
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w00tlbt: pong21:18
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lbtso... screen size21:21
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lbtwidth: 1400 in main.qml21:22
lbthow do I get the real screen size?21:22
lbtrunning qmlscene --fullscreen doesn't seem to allocate a width21:22
tripzeroooo, what's a "mer-not-a-ux" ?21:24
tripzerosounds exciting21:24
lbtit's a wallpaper with a shader modified wibbly text21:24
tripzerolol, nice21:25
Sage_ <- so this failure is sb2 thing as opensuse isn't getting the same?21:25
* lbt waits for "oh :("21:25
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* someone_else waits for Sage_ to fall asleep21:25
* Sage_ throws the ruby packaging soon to garbage bin and leaves it there to rot21:26
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lbthey, a true ruby packager!21:26
lbtso this is the "finds buildroot string in binaries" check21:27
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* lbt goes to #obs to ask a ruby pkg guru there21:30
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ngharolbt: I can SSH into my Mer guest VM.  X is running, Xorg.log shows it using VESA driver.  I only get a black display.21:40
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lbtngharo: cool21:40
ngharoStskeeps: I used nemo-handset-i586-testing-0.20111128.3.CE.2011-12-01.2.ks21:40
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vinscimeh - sdk chroot tar wants to make device inodes on my nodev-mounted /home.  #thingsthatslowdowndevelopers21:47
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lbtvinsci: #developersthatliketobedifferent go slower21:51
lbtwhy is it making dev nodes in /home21:51
lbtit should be in /opt21:52
lbtvinsci: also, suggestions and patches for improvements are welcome21:53
vinscilbt, obv. since I'm not reading the instructions (will dig them up again, of course)21:54
lbtoh, /srv, not /opt21:55
vinscithank you, lb21:56
vinscithank you, lbt21:56
lbtnp ... feedback is good21:56
lbthmmm  PowerVR device not found21:58
lbtSage_: got a sec21:58
lbtshould I get shaders working on N900/Qt5 ?21:58
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