Sunday, 2012-07-08

phaeronx3200:03
smokulooks good. let's try it :)00:08
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merderJolla!01:07
merderw00t01:07
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smokuphaeron: thanks for the kick. I'm on latest Mer/GTK/mutter now :-)01:16
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Stskeepsmorn05:19
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Stskeepsjjardon: good work :) we are currently working on the CI machinery, but after that's back up and fixed, your submissions will go through build tests05:49
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Stskeepshello goku1206:29
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Stskeepshello Grimmer :)06:40
GrimmerStskeeps: Hi :)06:40
Grimmerjust writing latest nemo release to card in order to test with n900 :)06:40
Stskeepscool :)06:40
Stskeepsif you have any questions regarding Mer, don't hesitate to ask at any time, else feel free to hang out :)06:41
Grimmerthanks, actually I have :)06:41
Grimmeranybody knows if any mer ports exists for n800?06:41
GrimmerI love my n800 still event tough I use samsung note for mostly06:42
Grimmerbut the n800 serves as the best night clock :), but was wondering if any mer ports exists for it06:42
Stskeepsthere's a port but up to date kernels aren't getting that much love06:46
Stskeepsso it's a lot of hard work06:46
Grimmerhmm, what would it need? recompiling and some patching?06:47
Stskeepswell, i'm not 100% sure, but it's not just 'install to sd' :)06:47
Grimmerin order to get the latest kernel ported06:47
Grimmeryeah :)06:47
Grimmeri was expecting that06:48
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Stskeepsand battery charging on n800 is a bit of a weird field06:49
Stskeepshello subzero :)06:49
subzerohello06:49
Stskeepssubzero: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?06:50
subzeroGreat to be here. I am a former Nokia employee, I worked on Symbian06:50
Stskeepscool :) well, if you have any questions at any time, or you'd like to know how to contribute, don't hestitate to ask, else feel free to hang out and learn :)06:51
subzeroI do not have much of linux professional experience, am looking to gain that thru this project06:51
Stskeepsthere's a surprising amount of former symbian people joining in the last 24 hours06:51
subzeroAh.. good to know ..06:51
Stskeepsand yes - it's a good place to learn :)06:52
Stskeepswe're very friendly06:52
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Stskeepshello ssp :)06:52
subzeroWill do my best. Any high level architecture docs avaiable ?06:52
sspStskeeps: Hey06:53
Stskeepssubzero: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture is in progress06:53
Stskeepsssp: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?06:53
iekkuhuh, nice to see so much new nicks in here06:54
sspStskeeps: Nothing in particular. Curiosity I guess.06:54
Stskeepsssp, sure :)06:55
Stskeepsssp: well, if you have any questions at any time, or you'd like to know how to contribute, don't hestitate to ask, else feel free to hang out and learn :)06:56
goku12Hi Stskeeps!06:57
timophmorning06:59
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Stskeepswelcome goku12 :) so what brings you here to #mer?07:04
goku12Hi Stskeeps!07:05
timophoh btw, I'll add a feature or two to tr-ui before making a new release07:06
timophthings like checking that the specified paths for tr-lite, etc. exist07:06
goku12I am facing an issue with the mer wiki. Does it have a valid SSL certificate?07:08
timophno07:08
timoph"trust us"07:08
goku12sure! :D07:09
timoph:)07:09
Stskeepsgoku12: we are currently using self signed, as we exchange passwords for our single sign on07:09
Stskeepswe are working on getting proper certs07:09
goku12sure! Just wanted to check before adding an exception07:10
timophhmmh. I am really tempted to do a complete rewrite of the ui code in tr-ui07:10
timophit's currently using forms and that makes it a bit difficult to add new things to it07:11
timophand I like to be in complete control of the code :p07:12
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Stskeepstimoph: i'd like an option to grab report layout in results preview without css available.. ie offline07:17
Stskeepsif possible07:17
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timophStskeeps: should be doable07:20
timophStskeeps: can you file a task bug?07:20
timophso I actually remember that :)07:20
timophactually fea req07:21
Stskeepstimoph: 41907:24
timophthanks07:24
Stskeepsthe nigerian scam bug07:24
timophx)07:24
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Stskeepshello sivu :)07:31
kyyberimorning07:32
Stskeepsmorn kyyberi07:32
kyyberihave been refreshing my ruby skills07:32
sivuhi stskeeps07:32
timophkyyberi: pervert07:33
Stskeepssivu, welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?07:33
kyyberitimoph :)07:33
timoph:p07:33
kyyberitimoph: I really must be pervert, since I again fell in love with the simplicity of ruby07:35
kyyberiin usage at least, not version management ;)07:35
sivustskeeps, just lurking how jolla gets going :)07:35
timophkyyberi: yep :)07:36
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Stskeepssivu, sure :) jolla is a vendor in mer 'ecosystem', we work on a core here, so if you have any questions at any time, don't hesistate to ask, or would like to know how to contribute, else feel free to hang out and learn more :)07:37
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Stskeepshey ngharo :)07:38
ngharohello07:39
sivustskeeps, great. i did work on a meego port for a certain mobile manufacturer, which obviously got scrapped after the announcement.07:39
Stskeepsngharo: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?07:39
Stskeepssivu: cool, yeah, the news hurt a lot of people07:39
Stskeepssivu: i was in meego arm myself07:40
sivustskeeps, yes, i remember. we chatted few times about some specifics07:40
ngharoI'm a big HTML5 fanatic and was using Meego on my laptop quite a while ago07:40
ngharojust generally interested in the new project that's going on here07:40
sivustskeeps, currently i find the raspberry pi version interesting, as farnell was kind enough to get me one :)07:43
Stskeepsthought it was time to make a solid mobile core that can't as easily be swayed by silly corporate choices.. or simply just showing how it -should_ be done..07:43
Stskeepssivu, yeah, mer is for rpi too. i thought i recalled your nick from somewhere :)07:44
Jopearabuusimiehet world domination07:44
denismhi, part of the topic "To see what you can help with, http://bit.ly/ymlJ0c & find "Available tasks'" - but there is no such records, last found 'available tasks' is ~January 201207:45
Stskeepsdenism, yes, it's broken. my fault -- go to bugzilla, search for severity 'task'07:48
Stskeepsit's included in bug triage mails these days07:49
sivustskeep, and i got one jolla guy drunk on friday :)07:49
Stskeepssivu, ah, the finnish form of industry spionage07:52
Stskeepsngharo: sure :)  if you have any questions at any time, don't hesitate to ask, or if you'd like to know how to contribute, else feel free to hang out and learn more :)07:53
ngharoStskeeps: cool, will do.  Thanks.  I'm gonna build an image and start there perhaps tomorrow.  For now I'm off to bed!07:55
ngharothanks for the warm welcome!07:55
Stskeepssleep well :)07:57
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lbt*sigh* .. so power out *again* last night until 1:45am ..... why? It rained. No thunderstorms, No snow, ice... just a bit of rain.08:02
Stskeepssounds like you have exposed xcables08:03
lbtsomething - it's a real PITA08:05
lbtanyhow, removed some redundant hardware during the reboots08:06
lbtand played dominos by candlelight .... which was fun08:06
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Stskeepshello daevis :)08:07
daevishello08:07
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Stskeepsdaevis: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?08:10
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Stskeepstaziff, where from in .pl, byt  the way?08:12
Stskeepsby, that is08:12
lbtlooking at twitter and wondering if anyone went to sleep ?08:20
phaeronwell there was the other side of the globe08:22
lbt*g*08:23
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taziffStskeeps: of what city I come from?08:34
dm8tbrthat's what he asked, yes08:37
Stskeepstaziff: yeah, or live - i'm in warsaw myself08:37
taziffi'm from bialystok08:38
Stskeepsah alright :)08:39
tazifffive days ago I was in warsaw on BB10 Jam :)08:39
Stskeepshehe, i was considering to go, but work kept me busy08:39
taziff:)08:40
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taziffohh Stskeeps you are Carsten :) I would be on the N9 party in Wroclaw, but I could not be08:48
Stskeepstaziff: yup08:49
sivulbt, ping08:53
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Stskeeps'lo Kypeli, good to see you here too :)08:59
Stskeepsand hey vinsci08:59
vinscihi Stskeeps09:00
KypeliStskeeps: Thanks for having me :) I started my summer vacation and need some project to work on. So why not Mer :)09:00
Stskeepsvinsci: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?09:00
StskeepsKypeli: sure :) if you have any questions on mer or how to get started, feel free to ask any time09:00
KypeliThanks!09:01
vinsciStskeeps, jolla.  Being an N900 user since a couple of years and a dev, looking for the next thing to work on.09:02
Stskeepsgrab http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK as a start (yes, certificate is self signed)09:02
Stskeepsvinsci: cool, if you have any questions or wondering how to get started, feel free to ask at any time, else feel free to hang around and learn09:02
sivustskeeps, can you give obs access09:03
lbtsivu: pong (coffee)09:03
sivuah there you are09:03
lbtno... that power is all mine bwahahahaa09:03
KypeliStskeeps: Cool, thanks! I'll install the SDK, browse on the wiki and create some accounts to get started.09:03
sivulbt, *petting white fat cat*09:04
vinscithanks, Stskeeps09:04
lbtsivu: *g*09:05
lbtalso, I need your meego.com account (goes for anyone who needs c.obs access)09:06
sivulbt, check your privmsg09:06
StskeepsKypeli: bugs.* account will work on wiki as well, if you see anything that is missing, broken or WTF-ish, file a bug -- we admit to our problems and best way to fix is a bug report :)09:07
lbtsivu, yeah, account, not email (and in here is fine for public info :) )09:07
KypeliStskeeps: That's a good spirit :)09:07
KypeliStskeeps: Btw. what's the best way to get into the project and finding something to do? Look in the Bugzilla or join some meeting first on IRC?09:08
sivulbt, account is sivu09:08
lbtheh .. thought so ... just logging in09:08
StskeepsKypeli: wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list and follow bug triage meetings or their emails09:09
Stskeepsmight be 'lists'09:09
KypeliOk09:09
Stskeepsbugzilla has a lot of severity=task and not-taken@merproject.org assignees09:09
Stskeepswhich is work up for grabs09:10
KypeliGood to know09:10
lbtsivu: done09:10
lbthave fun09:10
lbton bugs ... please assign to yourself when you actively start working on them09:10
lbtnot when you think "I can do that" :)09:10
* lbt looks for jjardon just to check09:11
sivulbt, thanks09:15
lbtnp09:15
Kypelimer09:16
Kypeliugh09:16
lbtif it was a password, no one noticed :)09:17
Kypeli:)09:17
KypeliJust the delicious tag typed in the wrong focus ;)09:18
lbtStskeeps: bergie suggested https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll/09:19
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lbtpowers http://pages.github.com/ apparently09:20
lbtproduces static pages so low resource09:20
lbtand probably great CSS design09:20
lbtalso static means easily mirrored to .cn etc09:21
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* kyyberi off to beach with kinds, bbl09:42
kyyberi*kids09:43
CosmoHillcyas .o/09:43
CosmoHillkyyberi: in the UK we don't have to go to the beach for a swim :p09:43
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kyyberiCosmoHill :)09:48
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phaeronStskeeps: python failed 2 tests10:00
phaeronStskeeps: how does it build in core ?10:00
Stskeepsphaeron: what tests?10:04
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Stskeepshello Ivan__ :)10:08
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phaeronStskeeps: http://pastie.org/421964410:09
Stskeepsphaeron: chroot or kvm and what fs10:11
phaeronwant the whole log ?10:11
phaeronchroot10:11
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Stskeepsyes, but will first be able to look later, i'm on mobile10:12
phaeronext410:12
phaeronok10:12
phaeronnp was just reporting10:12
Stskeepsext4 should work10:12
phaeronI can see most are network access related , there is no network access allowed in workers , right ?10:12
Stskeepsright10:13
lbtso how does it build in core?10:15
Stskeepsperhaps he has net access in chroot10:17
phaeronso the problem is it _has_ network access ? :)10:18
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Stskeepsmaybe10:21
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thauta_so whats the relation of jolla and mer? :)10:31
tanukthauta_: Jolla uses Mer in their products and also contributes to Mer development.10:35
thauta_nice10:40
thauta_tanuk: so their ux is not based on nemo but something else?10:40
tanukthauta_: Yes, to my understanding they're writing their own UI.10:40
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Stskeepsmoo moo-_-10:52
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phaeronvgrade: o/11:09
vinsciThis is as close to a public chat for Jolla one can get for the time being, right?11:12
Stskeepswell, #jollamobile exists too11:12
Stskeepswe keep .. ish .. to mer talk here11:12
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vinsciStskeeps, thanks. Glad I asked that. :-)11:12
vinsciinofficial as #jollamobile is, though11:13
Stskeepsit's probably better to have a place community can grow11:13
* vinsci nods11:14
jjardonStskeeps: hey, I sent some patches to gerrit. Could you take a quick look to check that I'm doing the things correctly?11:15
Aardvinsci: #jollamobile is inofficial in a way that you won't read things not mentioned in the press releases already from jolla employees, but still probably the best way in irc to get your comments to us11:15
* vmlemon_ wonders how easy it would be to run Harmattan, or even WebOS applications on their offering...11:15
jjardonlbt: hi11:15
vinsciAard, preparing CV... ;-)11:15
Stskeepsjjardon: looks great so far11:15
Stskeepsvmlemon_: well, i can't speak for jolla, but qt and qml are center pieces11:16
Stskeepsenyo can run on phonegap now can't it?11:16
vmlemon_I think so. I know that they're trying to release the source code for some of its components (or a "reinvented version" of them), too.11:17
vmlemon_I don't know much about PhoneGap to be honest, though.11:17
Stskeepsthink its pretty oss now11:17
lbtjjardon: hey11:18
lbtjjardon: looking fine ... just noticed the bug takes and wanted to check :D11:18
Stskeepsjjardon: Build tests will run later, we are working on the machine room so11:18
jjardonlbt: I wonder if I can access to cobs, so I can test the patches correctly ;)11:19
lbtof course11:19
lbtyou need a meego.com account ... then you tell me what it is11:19
jjardonI knew mer for long time, but the jolla announcement makes me want to contribute a little bit ;)11:20
jjardonlbt: jjardon is the account11:20
lbtjjardon: done... have fun11:21
jjardonlbt: thanks!11:21
lbtthat makes sense .... Mer needed to get established enough to justify people investing time in it11:22
jjardonStskeeps: why gst-plugins-bad-free instead upstream why gst-plugins-bad? AFAIK the problematic plugins are in -ugly11:22
jjardon(remove the second why)11:22
Stskeepsjjardon: two possible reasons.. one, fedora does that, or two: problems with patents/royalties11:23
Stskeepsnothing stops a vendor from patching for use but we cant11:23
Stskeepsrunning out of battery11:25
Stskeepsgtg11:25
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phaeronlbt: we never planned an upgrade to cobs :(11:28
lbtphaeron: no we didn't11:31
lbtwhy?11:31
lbtit's very much in the short-term queue11:31
lbtright now ... "make my wife's PC boot" is top of the list though :D11:32
phaeronok :)11:34
phaeronlbt: I get annoyed  every time I want to search for a package and get the error page11:34
lbtme too ... but the workaround is easy enough11:35
phaeronstill, getting annoyed 10 times a day is very annoying :)11:37
lbtbookmark11:38
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phaeronlbt: not like you to promote workarounds11:41
lbtI know :/11:41
lbtneed to prioritise though11:42
lbtand I need to spend all the rest of today on the protyping docs I shoulda done yesterday but for jolla and powercuts :(11:42
lbtand I've still got to fix Denise's machine11:42
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phaeronyeah I was just poking  ;)11:43
phaeronhave fun11:43
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vmlemon_Sounds like Jolla good fun.11:52
* vmlemon_ hides11:53
iekkuvmlemon_, hmm?11:53
vmlemon_(Was just a crappy pun that I thought of). :)11:54
phaeronyou mean jolly good fun11:54
vmlemon_Yeah ;)11:54
phaeron:)11:55
alteregoGuess I've not missed much this morning?11:55
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alteregoI think a true differentiator for Jolla could be HDMI and USB OTG, the first phine that could double as a desktop... :)12:03
alteregoI12:05
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alteregoImagine if we had a European handset creator that could adopt new technologies like the chinese :)12:06
alteregoThat would be cooool12:06
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* vmlemon_ wished that we had NFC/FeliCa support, 1-Seg/ISDB/DVB support, and other fun things like that...12:09
alteregoNot bothered with DVB, just stream video over the network.12:10
alteregoThough with OTG you could plug in a DVB dongle12:10
vmlemon_True12:11
vmlemon_Bonus points if Bluetooth 3.0, 802.11n, and even UWB/Wireless USB could be implemented.12:11
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alteregoBluetooth 3, would be an acceptable request, wireless USB is probably not :p12:12
* vmlemon_ thinks that a "Polaroid Phone" with a built-in printer would be amusing...12:12
vmlemon_(If not totally pointless)12:13
alteregolol12:13
alteregoWith the amount of photo printers availablr in shops now-a-days, it's pointless ;)12:14
vmlemon_It might be vaguely useful/novel for things like business cards, though.12:14
alteregoHave NFC for that12:15
* vmlemon_ wished that more Western market phones had support for Japanese text rendering/input.12:15
vmlemon_True12:15
vmlemon_(I've only ever seen an NEC one with rendering functionality; although I've seen lots of Nokias that can render Arabic and Russian, of all things).12:15
alteregoI really hope Jolla are as open as they can be.12:16
alteregoHardware wise12:16
alteregoand not just software12:16
vmlemon_I have a feeling that they'll be like the First Else, or one of those other proprietary, vapourware "boutique" phones.12:16
vmlemon_*"boutique" Linux phones12:16
vmlemon_I remain hopeful otherwise, though.12:17
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M4rtinKare there already PySide packages for MER ? :)12:39
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M4rtinKalso, where to check which packages are available ? in COBS or also somewhere else ?12:45
StskeepsmacmaN: i think we had them for Nemo but not sure of their state on 4.8.112:47
Stskeepsie, qt12:47
Stskeepshello celeron55, khj, tdrinaetudir and dsa :) so what brings you all here?12:48
StskeepsM4rtinK: above message to macman was to you12:48
M4rtinKStskeeps: ok, thanks :)12:48
M4rtinKwell, as long you have Python & standard Qt setup it shouldn't be difficult to rebuild/repackage if it got lost somewhere :)12:50
Stskeepsyeah, just effort needed12:50
Stskeepsi'm a pyside fan myself12:50
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M4rtinKme to, obviously :)12:52
M4rtinKI still also maintain the old GTK GUI for modRana though :)12:53
alteregoM4rtinK: do you use pythin with qml?12:54
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Forty-Twohow close is this to having a stable version?12:55
M4rtinKalterego: yep :)12:55
alteregoForty-Two: mer release are pretty damn stable, I think you're confused in what you're asking12:57
Forty-Twook12:57
celeron55hi; just joined here to see if there is anything interesting going on 8)12:58
Forty-Twoif I were to launch a phone today with this, would it crash and burn?12:58
celeron55because of news12:58
StskeepsForty-Two: we are a core and we try to release stable each tieme12:58
Forty-Twoah12:58
dm8tbrForty-Two: the core would work fine, hardware adaptation and UI are for you to bring or source otherwise12:59
Forty-Twook12:59
alteregomer isn't a full handset, tablet, whatever operation system. It's an adaptable core for people to use in all these kinds of devices.13:00
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TermanaStskeeps, is it just me or are you occasionally (probably accidentally) putting symbols in the middle of words?13:00
alteregoCan't say I've noticed it Termana :p13:00
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StskeepsTermana: ssh on gprs13:04
alteregoUsing a mobile?13:04
Stskeepsceleron55: cool, feel free to ask any questions you may have at any time, else feel free to hang out13:04
StskeepsForty-Two: we try our best to validate our core though, though as with any software, we can do better13:05
Forty-Twook13:06
Stskeepsnext up, how'd you like to help? :)13:06
M4rtinKso I gather this is the main Nemo OBS project, that is used to build the Nemo images ? https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=CE13:07
rzrStskeeps,  in case of . setup something for  https://twitter.com/rzrfreefr/status/22195286882189721613:07
StskeepsM4rtinK: yes, and subproject13:07
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Venemo_N9hey13:11
Stskeepshey Venemo_N913:12
Venemo_N9moo Stskeeps :)13:12
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Venemo_N9what's up?13:14
M4rtinKinteresting, looks like libshiboken is already included for some reason in CE:shiboken13:14
Stskeepshello asabil :)13:14
StskeepsVenemo_N9: the usual, good mer day13:15
Venemo_N9that's nice :)13:15
Venemo_N9I know I've asked this before, but. do you guys plan on adding some sort of qt creator support?13:16
M4rtinKant there are quite a few (buildable) PySide packages in custom branches, including Stskeeps :)13:16
rcg1Venemo_N9: ordered the archos 101 g9 turbo. will let you know how it works out.13:16
asabilHi Stskeeps13:16
rcg1however, i am on a conference in south africa this week so i won't have time to play around with it till next sunday13:16
Stskeepsasabil: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer?13:17
Venemo_N9I know I can run qt creator inside the platform sdk, but I'd like to run it on my regular os and make the apps run on a device. is this possible?13:18
Venemo_N9rcg1, thank you, next sunday will be excellent for me :)13:18
StskeepsVenemo_N9: we are slowly getting there13:18
Venemo_N9Stskeeps, how can I help in this area?13:19
StskeepsVenemo_N9: find out how reliably to use diff sysroots in qt creator13:20
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Venemo_N9well, i'm not even sure qt creator supports scratchbox at all.13:21
Venemo_N9I assume it doesn't13:21
Stskeepsnot scratchbox13:21
Stskeepssysroots13:22
Venemo_N9but we could make a madde sysroot for mer13:22
Venemo_N9is that what you're referring to?13:22
StskeepsVenemo_N9: generally that qt creator can use different sysroots and toolchains13:24
Stskeepsmadde is a step up from that13:25
Venemo_N9right.13:25
Venemo_N9all right, I'll find out what I can :)13:25
Venemo_N9oh, and a question: can I edit the mer wiki?13:27
Venemo_N9I'd like to add some info to the page that tells how to flash mer to the N9(50)13:28
phaeronyou can edit it , that's why it's a wiki :)13:30
Venemo_N9ok!13:30
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Venemo_N9thx :)13:30
phaeronStskeeps: do mer patterns need yum as pkgmgr during image creation ?13:31
tdrinaetudirHow stable is Mer (Nemo) on N900? And does Mer use or replace those proprietary drivers?13:36
alteregoIt has more up-to-date versions of the proprietary drivers.13:38
Stskeepstdrinaetudir: nemo uses some but not many closed blobs, and they're all redistributable13:41
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*** Stskeeps changes topic to "The Mer Project - http://www.merproject.org | http://wiki.merproject.org/ | Contribution to packages: http://bit.ly/tJUL43 | Building against Mer in COBS: http://bit.ly/v4riNg | This channel is logged, http://mer.bfst.de/logs | To see what you can help with, http://bit.ly/L9v3nR | Meetings: http://bit.ly/yP9Jg6 | IRC guidelines: http://bit.ly/xK6IRv"13:46
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Eelistoday's jolla press release: good news or bad news? :) ( http://www.esphoneblog.com/2012/07/08/jolla-details-their-mission-with-first-official-press-release/ )13:54
Stskeepsi'd.. say good?13:54
StskeepsJolla has been and is contributing to mer13:55
Eeliswhen you buy a hypothetical future jolla phone, though, will it basically be Mer with some proprietary UI slapped onto it?13:55
StskeepsEelis: the twitter says that it's Mer with a Jolla-made UI on top13:56
StskeepsEelis: which is fine - contributions come to mer core and is shared amongst all vendors using Mer13:56
Eelisright, but will that UI be open?13:56
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Venemo_N9who knows?13:57
Stskeepsthat you will have to ask the jolla guys about, but for now, be patient and see where things lead13:57
Eelisok, thanks :)13:57
StskeepsMer is just a core :)13:57
Eelisfair enough13:57
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Venemo_N9"just"?13:57
Venemo_N9don't be so modest.13:57
Eelisalso, another question: with both Tizen and Jolla going with Mer, is anybody still working on non-Mer MeeGo?13:59
alteregoTizen isn't going mer13:59
StskeepsEelis: i think you misunderstood Tizen - Tizen has it's own game, their handset originate from Samsung Linux Platform, and IVI from meego 1.213:59
Eelisoh, i read this blurb on merproject.org: "The Core is based upon the work from the MeeGo project and plans to share effort with the Tizen project."14:00
Stskeepstizen ivi we have a bit in common with14:00
Aardnon-mer meego has been in maintenance since about one year14:00
StskeepsEelis: yeah, that's from our original mission statement14:00
StskeepsEelis: back when tizen was supposed to release source within a week or two14:00
Stskeepsand instead took 4-5 months..14:00
Eelisah14:00
Eelisinteresting14:00
Eelisthat's disappointing :(14:00
vmlemon_Are the Linux DeadPool(TM), erm Linux Foundation planning on shutting down the MeeGo sites, eventually?14:00
Stskeepswe do like and collaborate with individuals within those communities14:00
Venemo_N9non-mer meego is dead for the most part14:00
Stskeepsbut yes, meego as a project is dead14:00
Stskeepsmer carries on spirit and dream, though14:01
Eelisok, i understand. thanks14:01
alteregoWe'd collaborate with Tizen, if there was anything to collaborate on at the moment :)14:01
StskeepsEelis: so are you interested in contributing? :)14:01
EelisStskeeps: heh, not right now. just trying to make sense of all this ^_^14:01
StskeepsEelis: sure :) when you do, don't hestitate to ask any questions14:01
Eelisi will, thanks :)14:02
Stskeepsvmlemon_: from what i know, it has been on plan to shut down meego for a while14:02
vmlemon_Aah14:02
Venemo_N9it surprising that they haven't done that yet.14:03
StskeepsVenemo_N9: meego 1.2 is still used in IVI14:03
Stskeepsand TV to some extent14:03
* vmlemon_ wonders why we're suddenly seeing a resurgence of HTML-based dumbphone Linuxes, too...14:03
vmlemon_(FireFox OS vs WebOS vs Tizen et al)14:03
Stskeepswell14:03
vmlemon_Such a stupid idea...14:04
Stskeepsi beg to differ, though14:04
Stskeepsfirefox OS should not be underestimated, since any given application framework-centered OS will be difficult to push through in a market14:04
Stskeepsand when you've seen what the html5 community can do, it is sometimes more sharing, open, standards-making than typical framework communities14:04
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vmlemon_There's a ridiculous amount wheel-reinvention going on with these things for some reason, too.14:05
Stskeepssure14:05
vmlemon_*amount of14:05
Stskeepsand i must say, they probably did the best marketing launch ever, by showing working devices with their OS, on top of android hw adaptation, stealing all thunder from Tizen14:05
vmlemon_Shades of what LiMo were pedalling, ages ago, prior to their demise.14:06
Stskeeps.. and that they might have a usable web runtime usable in other circumstances14:06
alteregoI think Firefox OS has the potential to be successful. But it depends who adopts it.14:06
vmlemon_(I've never seen a product that wasn't vapourware from them).14:06
Stskeepshello luketheduke :)14:06
lukethedukehi there14:06
Stskeepsluketheduke: welcome here to #mer :) so what brings you here?14:07
alteregoAnd like Stskeeps says, the web communities are generally more open, mainly because all their sources are plain text ;)14:07
alteregoAnd the web has been the single fastest evolving platform on the planet.14:07
lukethedukeStskeeps: I'm a n900 fanboi. Eelis told me about the conversation in here, I'm just listening in14:07
vmlemon_I predict that the resulting UIs will be clunky, too.14:07
Stskeepsluketheduke: sure :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask at any time, else feel free to hang out14:07
lukethedukethanks!14:07
alteregovmlemon_: I don't think that's necessarily true, but we'll see. I think when you have a specific runtime, like Gecko which Firefox OS is based on, then developers can use the assets that that runtime specifically offers to create the most rich and powerful, compelling UXs they can.14:08
Stskeepsvmlemon_: my belief is that app framework could be html5.. but doesn't mean we can't do our ui's in qt14:08
vmlemon_(As are most attempts to shoehorn a document-centric "platform" into something that vaguely behaves like a native application, in my opinion).14:08
alteregoIt's not like they need to target other rendering engines.14:08
alteregovmlemon_: then maybe it's time for a paradigm shift ;)14:08
vmlemon_I'll wait and see though, like you say.14:08
alteregoWhich is on the cards, but people are slow to evolve out of the app-centric ecosystems we have now, which is half the problem.14:09
alteregoAnd Apple, Google, MS, they don't want to lose the potential of app stores, because it's a big revenue earning service for them.14:09
vmlemon_Most attempts don't seem to take into account the fact that smartphones contain interesting hardware, and user-related data that should be accessible to programmers.14:10
Eelisother random question: is Wayland at all relevant to Mer? or is Mer so UI-agnostic that it doesn't even know about things like X ?14:10
StskeepsEelis: sec, let me show you a video14:10
alteregoEelis: it's completely relevent, mer needs to create the enablers for UX designers.14:10
Eelisok :)14:10
Eeliscool. i've been reading about Wayland. i think it's an exciting project14:10
StskeepsEelis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V83mChc-hQE&feature=plcp is Mer + busybox + llvmpipe + wayland + QML compositor + Qt5 on top of virtualbox. (Note: lag issue is known and just a bad conflict with cursor blink/fbcon)14:11
StskeepsEelis: no libx11 dependencies installed through qt5 modularity14:11
vmlemon_(After all, there aren't "Web APIs" for controlling haptics motors, interfacing with the phonebook, initiating NFC or Bluetooth connections, controlling cameras, or recording audio as far as I know).14:11
EelisStskeeps: sweet!14:12
Eelisi should subscribe to some Mer blogs and keep informed about things14:12
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Stskeepswe don't really have blogs, just get the mailing list14:12
Eelisallright14:13
Stskeepsthe problem with existing blog systems is that they're blocked in china14:13
Eelis:/14:13
Stskeepsand one of the vendors using mer is in china14:13
Stskeepshello pii :)14:13
vmlemon_On the other hand, you get things like Android that try too hard to shoehorn said "Web-centric"/"document-centric" paradigm into places where it doesn't fit. (The phonebook access APIs for instance are horrific).14:13
piiHi!14:13
M4rtinKvmlemon_: heard from a WebOS dev that was developing a painting program, that he had to convert the resulting bitmap to a plaintext string to pass it to some backend service to save it to file :)14:13
vmlemon_Eew14:13
Stskeepspii: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?14:13
vmlemon_I'm reminded of nasty hacks involving ancient LISP applications that recursively generated PostScript, and more LISP code; amongst other monstrosities...14:14
piiWell, you guys are on the news today, you know. :D I I looked at the web site and wanted to see if there is life on the channel .. guess there is.14:15
Stskeepspii: sure :) if you have any questions about Mer , or on how to contribute, feel free to ask at any time, else feel free to hang out :)14:15
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Eelisthe "EFL" sometimes mentioned in Mer contexts, does it refer to the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries or something else?14:17
StskeepsEelis: yes, again from original mission statement14:18
Stskeepswe're basically, from core POV, not picky about what people do14:18
Eelisright14:18
Stskeepsbut we do optimize towards qml/html5 like scenarios in our development14:18
Eelisok14:18
Stskeepsit doesn't mean people aren't running GNOME stack on top though14:18
Stskeepsas we do other things right14:18
* vmlemon_ wants to find whoever designed said contacts APIs, and force them to listen to Korean rap music, whilst eating extremely hot chilli, and having their eyes gouged out with hot, rusty scissors...14:18
Stskeepsvmlemon_: i don't believe in contacts api14:18
Stskeeps:P14:18
Venemo_N9vmlemon_, :D14:20
Stskeepshey nibbler :)14:20
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celeron55well; keep up the good work - i'm off to... eh, somewhere else i guess ->14:23
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Stskeepshello ErkanYilmaz :)14:25
ErkanYilmazHello Stskeeps :-) /me just lurking14:26
StskeepsErkanYilmaz: sure :) if you have any questions, don't hestitate to ask, else feel free to just lurk :)14:26
ErkanYilmazsure, will do14:26
ErkanYilmazthx14:26
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* vmlemon_ wonders if we'll eventually see an "OperaOS", to match ChromeOS and FFOS...14:28
Stskeepsvmlemon_: supposedly opera runs fine on top of mer14:28
Stskeeps:P14:28
Stskeepsactually, in nemo we already had a special opera build, i think14:28
Termanavmlemon_, oh and Safa... oh wait no you probably won't see that... :p14:29
vmlemon_What's next? Internet Explorer OS? LynxOS? ELinksPhone?14:29
Stskeepsvmlemon_: i'd use elinksphone14:29
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vmlemon_Ooh, strange green icons in https://github.com/andreasgal/B2G...14:31
vmlemon_I've never seen those on GitHub befoe.14:31
vmlemon_*before14:31
Stskeepssubmodules?14:32
vmlemon_Maybe - although the hyperlinks next to them seem to refer to other projects/repositories, and revisions.14:33
Stskeepsyeah, git submodules14:33
vmlemon_Aah. That makes sense now.14:33
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Stskeepshello merder :)14:40
merderhello14:44
merderJolla!14:44
merderw00t14:44
Stskeepshehe14:44
Stskeepsi don't have to ask what brings you here, i guess :)14:45
Stskeepsmerder: if you have any questions about Mer, don't hestitate to ask, else feel free to hang out :)14:45
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Venemo_N9anyway folks, I need my battery for later14:55
Stskeepsseeya14:55
Venemo_N9so, have a nice day, and goodbye :)14:55
alteregocaio14:55
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merderactually theres one thing i'm wondering about14:58
Stskeepssure14:58
merderhow easily portable are android apps to mer?14:58
Stskeepsit really depends on a lot of facotrs14:58
Stskeepsis it an app that just loads a web page? fairly easy14:58
Stskeepsis it a fart app? fairly easy, make it in qml14:58
Stskeepsis it a native android app that uses a lot of android specific things? not so easy14:58
merderok15:00
M4rtinKand thanks to Necessitas, its quite easier the other way around :)15:01
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Stskeepshello jonbristol :)15:02
Stskeepsmerder: some people also ran android apps as-is with emulation, on old MeeGo, on intel15:02
Stskeepsbut that's a commercial product15:02
jonbristolhey sts15:02
Stskeepsjonbristol: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?15:02
merderemulation?15:03
jonbristolwell I was reading up on what Jolla is, and how it'll be based on Mer, I'm also an owner of the ancient N800 lol15:03
alteregomerder: I think we should be thinking, do we want "apps" or do we want a platform that is already full featured and can work well with web services.15:03
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Stskeepsjonbristol: sure :) if you have any questions or would like to know how to contribute, feel free to ask at any time :) else feel free to hang out15:04
merderI'm just thinking about the many small time devs that have already made some application for android15:04
jonbristolCool, hopefully my input will be of use lol15:04
alteregoApps are like a money making scheme for ISVs who can't be bothered ti make a complete UX and want to steal money from independent developers.15:05
Stskeepsany contribution is valuable15:05
jonbristolmerder, a lot of OSes already run Android apps, such as the playbook's QNX OS and I've also seen a video of a tizen device running the apps15:06
jonbristolSo I guess all those apps can be utilized in one way or another15:06
Stskeeps(that was a meego device, from what i recall..)15:06
Stskeepsbut sure15:06
jonbristolum, this is the link I believe15:08
jonbristolhttp://www.intomobile.com/2012/05/17/video-tizenpowered-tablet-caught-running-android-apps/15:08
merderjust thinking about those useful android apps i know and how likely it would be possible to use them on mer15:08
Stskeepsjonbristol: yeah, that was actually meego :)15:09
Stskeepsoh15:09
Stskeepswait15:09
Stskeepsno15:09
Stskeepstizen IVI15:09
Stskeepssame stuff ;)15:09
merderso whats up with meego running android apps?15:09
Stskeepsmerder: you'd have to ask the companies making that commercial offering15:09
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merderoh, so its a deal between the businesses giants..15:10
Stskeepsi wouldn't say giants15:11
jonbristolwhat about Bluestacks? They offer android apps emulation even for windows...15:11
Stskeepsbluestacks is from what i know, full-system emulation, isn't it?15:12
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M4rtinKI'm uninterested until there is a fully OSS implementation15:13
StskeepsM4rtinK: well, the story was that some guy at canonical got it working perfectly fine under glibc .. and then stopped due to moral quibbles15:14
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Stskeepsand never releasesd source15:14
Stskeepsthis was several years ago15:14
Stskeepsimagine how linux landscape would have looked now15:14
M4rtinKand that's why you use Github (or equivalent) & do regular pushes :)15:15
M4rtinKbut yes - I really hate all the wasted potential and reinventing the wheal15:16
vmlemon_Didn't they implement 2 different versions of it?15:17
vmlemon_Or at least a vapourware proposal was published on a wiki; and a proprietary demo implementation was shown on video.15:18
Stskeepscan't recall15:18
merderbut qt's coming to android? or its working already?15:22
jonbristolthere is an implementation of it already15:22
jonbristolhmmm, let me get you a link lol15:22
merdernice15:22
merdertrue cross-platformness15:22
M4rtinKmerder: try "Qw" from Play15:23
M4rtinKits a QtGraphicsView using application from THP15:23
jonbristolCan't find the exact link, but I know some developers have interest in it15:23
jonbristolhttp://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/15:23
M4rtinKit quite nicely illustrates how the automatic library download works15:24
M4rtinKand it is also possible to use PySide (little hacky at the moment though)15:24
jonbristolYep, QT is quite powerful, it's only hinderanec I believe is some developers not adopting it15:24
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merderi hope it wont be too much of a pita to port android apps to mer so i can see many of those useful android apps on mer as well! :)15:38
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alteregomerder: the few apps worth having can either be written, but a lot of apps people like are generally coorporate16:02
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alteregolike angry birds, or spotify, etc.16:03
merderyeah, but i was mainly thinking about very niche apps developed by some small time dev16:03
alteregoWhich will probably be easy to develop ;)16:05
alteregoMaybe you could start a wish list / must have apps blog post ;)16:05
alteregoI'm sure other people have.16:06
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Stskeepshello mario :)16:14
marioindeed! hello.16:15
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Stskeepsmario: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?16:17
* CosmoHill offers mario a cup of tea16:17
jonbristolalong with some complimentary crumpits (english accent)16:18
marioheh, what a friendly channel16:18
CosmoHilljonbristol: gah16:18
CosmoHillyou're call jon and you're english :o16:18
CosmoHillthis makes two of us :)16:18
Stskeepsmario: when building community it's important to people to feel welcome :)16:18
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marioi was just looking arround for a future n900 replacement16:18
Stskeepsmario: sure :) maybe a mer vendor will do that one day16:19
jonbristolhaha, I'm not english but a big fan of the accent though16:19
Stskeepsmario: if you have any questions about Mer, feel free to ask at any time, or about how to contribute, etc. else feel free to hang out :)16:19
mariowell i hope someone does it already because my phone will not last forever :(16:19
jonbristolWow, N900 replacement would sure be awesome, honestly I secretly hope for something around the E7 form factor16:19
jonbristolTrue, just be glad it's still working :) lol16:20
Stskeepsyeah16:20
marioi read about all these forks and new os'es, but nothing seems like a final product16:20
* Stskeeps looks at his n900 with broken usb :(16:20
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Stskeepsmario: so, mer is a core, vendors take it, add a hardware adaptation for a device, and UI on top16:21
Stskeepswhich means we can focus on doing a good job in core level16:21
CosmoHilljonbristol: you've not heard me speak then :p16:22
jonbristoltrue, core is where the actual magic happens, however I feel a lot of people will be expecting that umzies, patented (swipe UI) :\16:22
Stskeepsvendors are free to do that, mer can hit 60fps with ease, too :)16:23
Stskeepswe just make it easier to focus on what matters instead of system work16:23
jonbristolCosmoHill what if I'm psychic and already know how you speak?16:23
marioStskeeps: i do get that, its just frustrating fearing the day when my phone will stop working and i will have to settle down for some half-product n900 is16:23
marioi mean, something half-product compared to n900, even tho its not complete its still far better then anything i can find :p16:24
jonbristolAnd stskeeper, do you know if the devices will he hacker friendly? like flash your own custom roms etc16:24
alteregojonbristol: knowing tue involved parties, I imagine it'll be more open that even the N90016:28
jonbristolWhich is godd, most people think that people who wants to flash etc are a small niche market, but I guess every incentive to buy counts :)16:29
Stskeepsjonbristol: n900/n9, archos g9, raspberry pi..16:31
Stskeepsexopc..16:31
Stskeepsbrb fodo16:31
jonbristolwell archos has been quite friendly to the hacking community at times, een helped out Bodhi linux with giving them some tablets for development i think16:34
dm8tbrarchos tries their best to support hacking on their devices16:38
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dm8tbrand they are very good when it comes to complying with all license requirements16:38
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jonbristolyeah, and france, if they're based there has very relaxed tech laws lol16:39
jonbristolhence VLC can have all those codecs and still be free16:39
jonbristollegally that is16:39
dm8tbrdid you know that they actively contribute to libAV?16:39
dm8tbror avlib16:39
dm8tbrwell that ffmpeg successor16:40
jonbristolNope, but that makes them even more epic! there are some really good people out there :)16:40
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timophp.setColor( QPalette::Normal, QPalette::Base, trExists ? QColor(255, 255, 255) : QColor(255, 0, 0, 128) );17:10
timophto me that looks somehow beautiful :p17:10
* timoph is a perv17:11
Stskeepsis it black on black?17:11
Stskeeps:P17:11
timophno. set the background color of a lineEdit to either white or transparent red17:11
Stskeepshehe17:12
timophjust added that to tr-ui17:12
timophvisual indication if the paths for testrunner-lite & co are misconfigured/missing17:13
Stskeeps:nod:17:13
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* lbt now has a shader enhanced alternative to minimer17:22
alteregoI've got a new idea for visual feedback with buttons, must, proto, type, it ... :)17:24
alteregoIt will stretch my glsl abilities for sure ...17:24
sivustskeeps, Mer:fake:Core configuration should include python17:26
sivuatleast for me, rpmlint gives error if python is not found17:27
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alteregolbt: packaging Ruby then, where should I start?17:30
alteregoI wanted to clone OpenSuSe's packages and adapt for Mer, but you seemed hestitant about that idea yesterday?17:30
Stskeepssivu: error can be ignored17:35
Stskeepsnot entirely sure why it happens, but it's in no way fatal17:35
sivustskeeps, i know but it's still ugly. and can be resolved by adding python :)17:35
Stskeepssivu: we don't have Mer:fake:Core basics including python because of low level interdependencies causing a cycle17:35
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Stskeepssivu: python is actually there, in /opt/testing, a minimal testup17:36
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Stskeepsanyway, i'm making excuses, i'll file a bug about that message17:36
Stskeepsbug 420 added17:37
alterego:)17:37
alteregoThis new keyboard mapping is a bit lame, but I like having a proper keyboard and mouse with my new work station setup :)17:37
Stskeepssivu: thanks for reporting the issue17:38
sivuno problem17:38
sivui'm looking for mer on rpi17:39
Stskeepsthe general rule is that if you see something odd, or something that 'should be done', we add a task bug or a bug and catch it in the triage17:39
Stskeepssivu: http://images.formeego.org/raspberry-pi/17:39
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Stskeepswelcome to zx2c4 and Lava_Croft :)17:39
alteregoHey guys :)17:40
alteregozx2c4: more on topic in here :P17:40
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sivustskeeps, i know about that. already branched vgrades packages and updated kernel into newer :)17:42
Stskeepssivu: alright17:42
sivuand fixed gfx-libs-raspPi build problem17:42
Stskeepsif you're bored, you can package up gles libs too, remember libGLESv2.so.2 -> libGLESv2.so and libEGL.so.1 -> libEGL.so17:42
Stskeepsman, you're quick :)17:42
zx2c4yo17:43
sivuwell it's a dirty fix atm, i added rpmlint filter to ignore offending files :)17:43
Stskeepssivu: yes, dirty, erm17:43
* Stskeeps hides some of his prototypes17:43
sivu:)17:44
zx2c4so nemo actually works for things, eh?17:44
zx2c4any screenshots available, or should i just dig right in and install it17:45
Stskeepszx2c4: yeah, i've had a telco on it17:45
Stskeepszx2c4: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo and #nemomobile17:45
alteregozx2c4: loads of vids and screenies available, just google and look at youtube.17:45
zx2c4why's nemo considered separate from mer?17:45
zx2c4different channel and all17:45
Stskeepszx2c4: long story short: mer is a core and does not contain hardware adaptations or UIs. we treat everyone the same, they're vendors17:46
alteregozx2c4: they are different :P17:46
Lava_Croftmer is the core or base of the system17:46
Lava_Croftanyone can put anything on top of it17:46
Stskeepszx2c4: that way we can make sure people/vendors can work together on a common core without typical places of disagreement17:46
alteregoWe don't want to say, prioritise Nemo over Cordia, or any other project, we're vendor neutral :)17:46
Stskeepslike vivaldi, with plasma active or mer17:46
Stskeepser, and17:46
Stskeepsor nemo, with n900/n950/n9 and mer17:46
Stskeepsetc17:47
zx2c4aaa interesting17:47
zx2c4so17:47
zx2c4mer -- base17:47
Lava_Croftstill havent heard from spark/vivaldi17:47
Lava_Crofti want one17:47
zx2c4then there are various layers over it -- plasma active from aseigo, nemo from the old meego proj, and cordia from _____17:47
Stskeepszx2c4: yeah, -- to be honest we run with a principle of hackability, ie, no size fits all17:48
Stskeepsso there'll be some that only use parts of mer, others who use it all, some who modify it17:48
Stskeepssome might even run their own full mer builds17:48
Stskeepsdid you know the Mer infra budget is -only- 300 euro a month?17:48
Stskeepsconsidering we build for armv6, armv7 soft/hardfp, x86 generic, atom, mips17:49
Stskeepsand build tests for changes on top17:49
zx2c4oh man there's so much fragmentation here though. looks to me like linux desktop situation all over again17:49
Stskeeps:nod:17:50
zx2c4:-(17:50
Lava_Croftfragmentation is good17:50
Lava_Croftconsolidation is a path of darkness17:50
Stskeepszx2c4: the general idea is to work together and save effort, so we don't all have to do the exact same things17:50
Stskeepsand sometimes this is done with permitting some customizability17:50
alteregozx2c4: it's not that fragmented, when you think of them as seperate projects, with different goals.17:50
zx2c4but, for example, apps....17:51
Lava_Croftits to have no fragmentation in an open world17:51
Lava_Croftits hard*17:51
zx2c4its the gtk/qt/kde/gnome wars all over again17:51
alteregoThe goal of Mer is to provide a common base for vendors like Nemo, Cordia, Plasma, etc. to use and maintain a certain amount of interoperability.17:51
Stskeepszx2c4: sure - and we're not pushing a app story, as such. personally i push HTML5 as something that could be common17:51
zx2c4soon we'll have  www.nemo-look.org, www.cordia-look.org, www.html5-look.org17:51
alteregoEach of those projects have completely different goals, yet mer manages to cater for and work with them all successfully.17:51
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Stskeepsmer's there to build products, simple as that17:51
Stskeepsand vendors are welcome to work together on app stories17:52
zx2c4yea, i apprecaite the mer base. that seems good17:52
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zx2c4so mer is just a basic linux distro? based on suse? what's it have that makes it special17:52
* zx2c4 goes and reads documentation17:52
Stskeepszx2c4: compared to bigger distros, we're about mobile, small, QA-ability17:52
zx2c4does it include a gsm stack?17:53
StskeepsoFono17:53
zx2c4or is that in the nemo,cordia,plasmactive layer17:53
Stskeepsie, we aren't likely to support server usage, or for that matter desktop that well17:53
Stskeepswe're meant to go into low foot print mobile devices, and not only phones17:53
Stskeeps'experience' devices, as such17:53
lbtalterego: you just missed me - having dinner now ... bbiab17:54
alteregolbt: okay, talk to you later17:54
zx2c4is there any hope for tizen rebasing based on mer, or will we always be following them around?17:54
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alteregoI think eventually they'll be following us ..17:55
Stskeepszx2c4: in our original mission statement we wanted to collaborate but tizen's behind closed doors discussions have made things difficult17:55
Stskeepszx2c4: mer wanted to play a different game, tizen plays entire-stack game17:55
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zx2c4Stskeeps, so basically, mer is just a kind of final attempt to keep all the meego stuff from being comendeered by corporations17:56
alteregoWe openly, and actively tried to get them on board, but they clearly don't like the idea of not being incharge, and the idea of transparent meritocratic project management.17:56
Stskeepszx2c4: bit of an overexaggration :) we just wanted to show how it -should- be done17:56
alteregozx2c4: MeeGo for us is an idea.17:56
Stskeepswe had Mer before meego existed.17:56
Stskeepswe joined meego in the hope they were true to the ideals they wrote17:56
alteregoAnd idea that wasn't executed properly by LXF, Intel and Nokia.17:56
Stskeeps.. they weren't17:56
Stskeepswe go back17:56
Stskeeps:P17:56
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Stskeepszx2c4: we do discuss regularly with tizen ivi and i even have a photo of myself with EFL guy, from when tizen invited many of us from Mer to their conference in SF17:57
Stskeepsin practice there's always collaboration in upstream projects17:57
zx2c4but nonetheless, all the hard work is now being taken by big corporations, and they arent interested in giving you any piece of the cake, and since they have way more developer power and money, mer will always be playing tizen-catchup17:57
Stskeepszx2c4: i used to think so too, but go look at those projects in practice17:58
alteregoI think I've fried my USB3 controller ..17:58
zx2c4you think its gonna flop?17:58
Stskeepszx2c4: did you know, that in entire lifetime of meego, every package was only touched for integration purposes 4 times in average?17:58
zx2c4tizen, i mean17:58
vmlemon_I assume that it'd be technically possible to implement a Tizen, WebOS, or even Android "profile" on top of Mer?17:58
leiniryou seem to believe that clunky, closed-door development practices are more capable of producing functioning systems than agile, open-door methods ;)17:58
Stskeepszx2c4: i don't want to be making any kind of doomsday prophecies, it's not valuable for anybody17:58
Stskeepsvmlemon_: sure, sec17:59
Stskeepsvmlemon_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwPu6lbG_Xk17:59
vmlemon_(Given that it's all just Linux, at the end of the day, to put it bluntly).17:59
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Stskeepshello Anonymous9999999 :)18:00
Stskeepszx2c4: let me just dig out a presentation18:00
alteregoStskeeps: was it just on the N950 you wanted me to test calls?18:00
Stskeepsalterego: yes or n918:00
alteregoI've not set up an N9 for mer development yet.18:00
Stskeepszx2c4: https://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf18:00
alteregoShuld get around to that at somepoint.18:00
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zx2c4Stskeeps, i think i was at this talk actually18:01
Stskeepszx2c4: my condolences18:01
zx2c4or maybe not18:01
alteregonemo n950 image almost done18:01
zx2c4fosdem was a blur18:01
* alterego loves his 120Mb internets :)18:01
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Stskeepshello achilles99 :)18:02
achilles99hi18:02
Stskeepszx2c4: not one of my best, but i was in 3 different countries in the leadup to the conference, so that really hindered matters18:02
Stskeepsachilles99: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?18:02
zx2c4about all i can remember from fosdem is18:02
rcgany hints what to do or see in port elizabeth, south africa?18:02
zx2c4screaming at the Nokia Qt guys for ditching QWidget18:02
alteregolol18:03
alteregoThey've not ditched it :P18:03
timophzx2c4: afaik it's just moved to it's own module18:03
Stskeepsthat's another good discussion, but i've grown tired of it after reading about it day in and day out on qt mailing lists..18:03
timoph100% supported stuff18:03
Stskeepsit has just blocked people doing good work with qml desktop components18:03
zx2c4there was some exchange like "I dont want to use QML" "Are you a developer or designer?" "Uh, both." "Well, you see, designers love QML. YOu must be a developer." "Fuck your bullshit distinctions. I like my qwidget." "I declare declaratively you shall not pass." "Sorry what?" "See, you dont understand QML." "No, I don't."18:03
timophtrue18:04
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timophnah. matters of habbit/taste18:04
timophboth ways supported so really a non-issue18:04
zx2c4timoph, well, back then, they were talking about just putting it in maintance mode. i think since, there's been some community backlash, and qwidget will be a little bit more maintained than previoulsy stated, which is nice to hear.18:05
Stskeepszx2c4: there's even a maintainer now, i think18:05
Stskeepsjust remember that in any open source project, to keep stuff alive, there has to be people stepping up..18:05
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Stskeepscompanies or even people's priorities change18:06
timophI think that they are not actively bringing new stuff to widgets but it's an open project so anyone can contribute18:06
Stskeeps:nod:18:06
vmlemon_Bilge water? Dead people? Sand? Lions? Coins with holes in them? Fraudsters?18:06
* vmlemon_ hides18:06
Stskeepswhat?18:06
Stskeeps:P18:06
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Stskeeps.dk has coins with holes in them18:07
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vmlemon_(Was in response to rcg's question of "What can I see in (South) Africa?") ;)18:09
alteregoInstalling nemo on N95018:09
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timophbtw, can't make a tr-ui release before the updated tr-lite is out18:09
vmlemon_I'm sure it's a nice place, really.18:10
Stskeepsah :)18:10
rcgvmlemon_: right, well, i will see tomorrow :)18:10
vmlemon_Oh, only Kenya has lions and tigers, apparently. (If the song is to be believed). ;)18:13
rcgat least the people here at the gate seem all to be friendly and most of them talk english :)18:13
alteregoWow, has it been that long since I've used nemo O_O18:14
alteregoThis is gorgeous ..18:14
Stskeepsyeah, xruxa's work really helps matters18:14
iekkualterego, :)18:14
alteregoOkay, notes, battery indicator is broken.18:16
alteregoAs well as cell signal indicator ..18:16
Stskeepsyeah18:17
rcgalterego: did you say battery indicator? all help's appreciated on that one :)18:17
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alteregorcg: if I have time I'll have a look.18:18
Stskeepshey zchydem :)18:18
alteregorcg: looks like contextkit is broken across the board there.18:18
Stskeepsalterego: backend isn't there18:18
alteregoAh18:18
alteregoIP issues?18:18
rcgalterego: as Stskeeps says.. actually, some of us are trying to reverse engineer that fella.. hence, the "subtile" call for all help ;)18:19
alteregoNot sure I'll be great help there :/18:20
rcgwell.. seeing the queue move.. i might go offline any moment18:20
alteregoI can have a look, but that sounds like a lot of work and time is somewhat limited ;)18:20
timophalterego: but do the important bits work? namely my yatzy game :p18:20
alteregolol18:20
alteregoyatzy!18:20
rcgalterego: right, same problems here.. so much to do, so few time ;)18:21
alteregoI like the swipe usage :)18:21
alteregoWorks really well18:22
rcgalterego: http://ruedigergad.com/2012/06/03/nemomer-vs-battery-status-vs-n9n950/18:22
rcgjust in case.. that's at least what i found out about the battery gauge chip for now18:22
rcgwith lots of help from DocScrutinizer18:22
Stskeepsalterego: ssh, not swipe, pan to switch ;)18:23
timoph:)18:23
alteregoRight, calls not working.18:23
alteregoLooks like cellmo isn't being initialized.18:23
* alterego investigates.18:23
alteregoAlso, really need to update the UX to Qml Components.18:23
Stskeepsalterego: start pin query18:23
alteregoQt Components ..18:24
rcgalright guys.. gotta go.. next time i will hopefully be online from south africa :)18:24
alteregoSee ya rcg18:24
timophhave fun o/18:25
Stskeepshave a good trip, rcg18:25
alteregoStskeeps, how?18:25
rcgthx :)18:25
alteregoAnd I don't have a PIN18:25
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Stskeepsalterego: ok18:26
alteregoHmm, ofonod i running.18:26
Stskeepsalterego: add -d to ofono's service file, reboot, dmesg18:26
Stskeeps /lib/systemd/system or something18:27
Stskeepser, no18:27
Stskeepsnot dmesg18:27
Stskeepssystemd-journalctl18:27
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* alterego reboots18:30
alteregoWeird place to but service files I have to say.18:30
alteregoI guess it makes sense in someone's head :)18:30
Stskeepshello rettichschnidi :)18:31
rettichschnidihi Stskeeps18:31
Stskeepsrettichschnidi: welcome here to #mer :) what brings you around?18:31
rettichschnidimy hope for a successor of maemo/my n90018:34
alteregoWell, one thing, /etc/bluetooth/input.conf isn't there. Should it be?18:34
Stskeepsalterego: does ofono complain about it?18:34
alteregoUnrelated issue, but an easy fix for an error in the syslog18:34
Stskeepsalterego: bug please18:34
alteregoNo, this is bluetoothd18:35
Stskeepsrettichschnidi: :nod: i guess jolla news :) we do Core work here - in case you have any questions about Mer, feel free to ask at any time, or feel free to hang out :)18:35
phaeronStskeeps: starting with your .meta comment18:35
Stskeepsphaeron: mm?18:35
phaeronyou said .meta files in the :full were not copied18:36
Stskeepsright18:36
rettichschnidiStskeeps: yep, jolla news18:36
rettichschnidiwhen i have some time ill flash my n900 and see what is already done18:37
rettichschniditill then ill just idle here18:37
Stskeepssure :)18:37
rettichschnidiwell, one question: has n900/mer an usb host mode?18:38
phaeronStskeeps: well copying those prevented rebuild but now everything is unresolvable18:38
Stskeepsphaeron: hmm18:38
Stskeepsphaeron: that doesn't do it for me18:38
phaeronyeah digging deeper18:38
alteregorettichschnidi: nope, unfortunately not, though you could probably use the host mode stuff from N900 maemo518:38
phaeronStskeeps: what do you mean18:39
Stskeepsphaeron: as in, copying .meta does not cause unresolvable for me18:39
alteregoStskeeps: is this expected: Jul 08 19:38:46 localhost.localdomain mce[494]: GLIB WARNING ** GConf - Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon:18:39
alteregoAppears quite a lot in the startup log.18:39
Stskeepsalterego: sounds like a bad dependency18:39
Stskeepsalterego: bug in nemo please18:39
alteregoThat's obviously a nemo thing ;)18:39
alteregoHrm, where's the nemo bugzilla?18:40
alteregofound it ..18:40
rettichschnidialterego: probably. But I'd like to have something out of the box - or the driver i'd like to get working on n900 will be used pretty much exclusively by geeks18:40
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Stskeepsphaeron: http://pastie.org/4221557 , and qtwebkit on top18:41
jjardonStskeeps: what gconf is used for in mer?18:41
Stskeepsjjardon: in maemo/meego stacks, gconf was used18:41
* phaeron scratches head18:42
jjardonStskeeps: ah, so Its used in nemo, not mer, rigth?18:43
Stskeepsjjardon: we do use it in mer in some places18:43
Stskeepsthough i need to remember where :)18:43
alteregoStskeeps: looks like mce is going through a rebase at the moment.18:43
alteregoPossibly related18:43
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Stskeepshello testttr18:43
Stskeepsjjardon: ah right, pulseaudio, sensorfw18:44
jjardonStskeeps: gconf has been deprecated long time ago, It would be good if we can clean that dep18:44
Stskeepsjjardon: agreed18:44
Stskeepsdconf instead or how was it?18:44
jjardonStskeeps: dconf is the unix backend, yes18:45
Stskeepsphaeron: maybe we need to look at sources of why things rebuild18:46
jjardonpulseadio has a optional dependency on gconf for paprefs, so maybe Its not needed there18:46
jjardonStskeeps: sensorfw doesnt seems that depend on gconf? http://gitorious.org/sensorfw/sensorfw/blobs/master/sensorfw.pro18:48
Stskeepsjjardon: hmm, might have been a test then18:48
Stskeepshttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture - we also have tools to navigate dependencies18:49
Stskeepsjjardon: such as http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mer-core9.png (old picture, kinda bad compared to what i can generate)18:49
jjardonStskeeps: nice, could you show what modules depend on gconf?18:51
Stskeepsjjardon: yeah, but in this particular case i think gconf dep in pulseaudio comes from our kinda special pulseaudio18:51
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jjardonI see it in the table but its impossible to follow ;)18:52
Stskeepsyeah18:52
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Stskeepsanyhow, i have a driver's lesson in the morning so i think i'll sign off for tonight18:52
tanukStskeeps: Do you have any details?18:52
tanuk(regarding the specialness)18:52
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Stskeepstanuk: meego pulseaudio is the one in mer right now, but we were wondering why there's a gconf dep18:52
tanukI mean, I don't think Harmattan pulseaudio uses gconf for anything.18:53
jjardonStskeeps: special pulseaudio? will check the patches then18:53
Stskeepstanuk: yeah, i wondered too18:53
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Stskeepsjjardon: we're likely to go to a clean upstream PA18:54
jjardonoh, wow18:54
* alterego installs ofono test scripts ..18:54
Stskeepsjjardon: this is what drives audio in n9/n90018:54
jjardonlots of patches here18:54
Stskeepsand was for a while in meego as well, on intel and n9xx side18:54
jjardonStskeeps: do you know if the patches were pushed upstream?18:55
alteregourgh, dependency issue with ofono-test package, requires python-dbus18:55
tanukjjardon: Most were, not all.18:56
jjardonalterego: bad ofono,  python-dbus is deprecatred too18:56
jjardontanuk: http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/pulseaudio.git;a=tree;h=020c304aa35abf2bbde73cf25571f28e6d29648f;hb=020c304aa35abf2bbde73cf25571f28e6d29648f18:57
Stskeepsalterego: buug!18:57
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Stskeeps:P18:57
Stskeepsi'd rather be aware of our problems than not :)18:57
alterego;)18:58
alteregoDone18:58
DocScrutinizer05alterego: (<alterego> rettichschnidi: nope, unfortunately not, though you could probably use the host mode stuff from N900 maemo5) you're aware that hostmode is 99% kernel hacking at its dirtiest?18:58
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: I'm sort of aware of that yes, that I think you've tried it with later kernels and had unpredictable results no?18:59
alteregoBut yes, generally I understand the method to which you get USB host is a massive bodge :)18:59
DocScrutinizer05nope, we never even tried to hack any 'later kernel'18:59
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DocScrutinizer05and why would we, since that particular hack is exactly for N900 only, and afaik there's no 'later kernel' on N90019:01
tanukjjardon: Hmm, that list differs from the list of Harmattan patches more than I thought (I'm familiar with Harmattan, not really Mer).19:02
DocScrutinizer05the whole hack was only to work around massive fsckup Nokia built into N900 USB hw19:02
DocScrutinizer05so porting it to any 'alter kernel' is a massive wase of time at nest19:03
DocScrutinizer05best*19:03
jjardontanuk: seems a janitor work is needed Stskeeps are you planning to update to pulse 2?19:05
DocScrutinizer05alterego: btw is it just me or is there some sarcasm in between the lines in your answers?19:05
alteregoDocScrutinizer05: not intentional19:08
Stskeepsjjardon: plan's for pulse 219:10
rettichschnidiDocScrutinizer05, alterego: thx19:12
alteregoStskeeps: doesn't look like the modem is getting powered up19:12
Stskeepsalterego: dmesg19:12
alteregoStskeeps: I can do it manually. It doesn't happen at startup19:13
Stskeepsalterego: hmm, interesting19:13
jjardonStskeeps: Is there any more up-to-date repo then this? http://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/ (for spectacle)19:13
Stskeepsjjardon: get mer platform sdk, it contains the up to date stuff19:13
Stskeepsin Mer:Tools and Mer:Tools:Testing19:13
Stskeepszypper in spectacle19:13
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alteregoAnd there are also issues with the dialer, looks like I've got some interesting bugs to look in to tomorrow :)19:16
alteregoI think I'll dedicate 2 days a week for the next few weeks to dialer work.19:18
alteregoI want to get it using Qt Components, and also get it actualy working.19:18
Stskeepssounds good19:19
alteregoThen add all the missing features that I intended to do previously when I was actively on the project.19:19
alteregoAnd after that, if I manage to get all that done, I'll look at making it truely headless.19:19
alteregoThen we can start talking IVI and all sorts, :)19:19
alteregoI have to say though, overall, I'm _really_ impressed with how far Nemo has come.19:20
alteregoIt's really quite beautiful19:20
Stskeepssometimes all it takes is a bit of lipstick19:20
alterego;)19:21
alteregoAnd eyeliner?19:21
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alteregoIf you remember, eyeliner is what I was planning on calling the QML MCompositor fork :)19:22
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alteregoRight, I've got a date with the xbox, see you all tomorrow.19:24
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Stskeepshello Jagoo :)19:35
Jagoohi19:36
StskeepsJagoo: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?19:36
Jagoogeneral curiosity in mobile OS dev19:36
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StskeepsJagoo: sure :) if you have any questions about Mer, don't hestitate to ask at any time, or if you'd like to know how to contribute, else feel free to hang out and learn/watch :)19:37
Jagoothats what I intended to do :)19:37
Stskeepscool :)19:38
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jjardonStskeeps: sdk installed19:42
Stskeepsjjardon: cool19:42
jjardonbut git doesnt work19:42
Stskeepsthought you had that already actually19:42
Stskeepsjjardon: 'not work' .. elaborate :)19:42
jjardonStskeeps: bash: git: command not found19:42
Stskeepsjjardon: zypper in git19:42
Stskeepser, sudo zypper in git19:43
Stskeepswe don't necessarily come with batteries included, to make it easy to grab19:43
jjardonwell, git is pretty necessary in a sdk rigth? maybe should be included by default19:43
Stskeepsi do agree19:43
Stskeepsbug? :)19:43
jjardonbtw, having your home files but work with the sdk is cool19:44
Stskeepsyes19:45
Stskeepsit's meant to be easy to throw away, as well19:45
jjardonwe use something similar in gnome, jhbuild. but no so powerful19:45
jjardonas you can test thing like pulseaudio for example19:46
jjardons/can/cant19:46
Stskeepswe try to delimit somewhat as to launching vms or dealing with devices19:46
Stskeepsif you need a full environment, it should really be 'booted up'19:46
Stskeepsso we have a sdk and a target, ideally making it easy to launch vms, or flash devices19:47
jjardonbtw, there is a new version of spectacle: 0.2519:47
Stskeepsyes, we've taken over development19:47
Stskeepsand it's getting merged as we qa it19:47
jjardonStskeeps: so if my patch was rejected, I have to do the fixes, rebase the new commit with the new one with the fixes and resubmit?19:50
Stskeepsnah19:50
Stskeepswe're friendlier than that :)19:50
Stskeepssc19:50
Stskeepssec19:50
Stskeepshttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail#Re-submit_if_original_change_was_rejected19:50
jjardonok, what "amending the commit" means then?19:51
Stskeepslook further down19:51
Stskeepsgit commit --amend19:51
Stskeepsit means that you go in and edit the commit in practice19:51
Stskeepsand re-send with the change ID19:51
Stskeepslet me show you in gerrit how it looks..19:51
jjardonStskeeps: ups, sorry, I get it19:52
Stskeepshttp://review.merproject.org/636 - notice the patch set 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ?19:52
Stskeepsjust remember that we reject to make you a better packager :)19:52
jjardonsure19:52
Stskeepsand not because we don't like the change19:52
jjardonStskeeps: no worries, Its good to learn19:53
lbtnb ... no need for a bug, git is included in the next release of the SDK19:56
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jjardonlbt: k20:02
jjardonStskeeps: seems I have character encoding problems20:03
lbtalso - see http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00548.html20:03
jjardongit show I see this: http://fpaste.org/wIrj/20:03
jjardonI cant push because "not Signed-off-by author/committer/uploader"20:06
jjardonMy complete commit message: http://fpaste.org/UZxb/20:07
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jjardonlbt: thanks, updating. So the link in http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Platform_SDK doesnt point to the latest version (I have to download like 200MB again)20:13
lbtnah, updates work20:13
lbtI need to do an SDK release early next week20:14
lbtI may need to check your repos though20:14
lbtStskeeps: that looks like gerrit may be having utf8 issues?20:16
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jjardonlbt: known bug? http://fpaste.org/1AXo/20:17
lbtnot seen that before20:17
lbtSDK20:18
jjardonyeah, this is upgrading the sdk20:18
lbthmm - I used to copy the host system certs into the SDK20:18
lbtwell, we still do actually20:18
lbtso I wonder if that conflicts20:18
jjardonI'm using Fedora 17 if that matters20:19
lbtshouldn't20:19
lbtcan you log a bug for it20:19
lbtthis is a zypper up ?20:19
jjardonyes20:19
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lbtI'm guessing something has an install dependency and I need to take that into account now20:20
lbtthanks for highlighting -- I can look at it as part of the SDK update20:21
lbtsee if you have any issues20:21
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jjardonlbt: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42420:23
lbtta20:23
jjardonmmm, why openssl is going to be removed?20:24
lbt?20:24
jjardonlbt: see the log20:24
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lbtmaybe https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41220:25
lbtnb ... I think the SDK you have is the older variety, uses the unstable repos20:26
lbtcat you pastie /etc/zypp/repos.d/mer-core.repo and  /etc/zypp/repos.d/mer-tools-i486.repo20:27
jjardonlbt: http://fpaste.org/0DuB/20:29
lbt:/20:29
jjardonhttp://fpaste.org/aQdZ/20:29
lbthave you run sdk-upgrade20:31
jjardonyes, just finished now20:32
lbtmy SDK was still on 0.20120517.120:32
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lbttrying it here20:34
lbtjjardon: did you delete the downloaded SDK tarball ? :)20:36
jjardonlbt: no, should I?20:37
lbtno20:38
lbtI'm thinking you may want to remove the SDK and reinstall it20:38
lbtcarefully20:38
lbtyou must do the umount first20:38
lbthttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#WARNING20:39
jjardonlbt: umounted, but I have to go to bed now, Its 5:40 here ;) More tomorrow!20:39
lbthttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK#Removing_and_disconnecting_the_SDK20:39
lbtsure ... good to have you around20:39
lbt'night20:39
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shmerlHi!21:20
shmerlGot some issues when building Firefox for Vivaldi target with Mer SDK.21:21
shmerlFor some reason confugure can't find QtOpenGL from pkgconfig21:21
shmerlchecking for QtGui QtNetwork QtCore QtOpenGL... Package QtOpenGL was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `QtOpenGL.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable No package 'QtOpenGL' found21:22
shmerlconfigure: error: Library requirements (QtGui QtNetwork QtCore QtOpenGL) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them.21:22
shmerlOops, just noticed that libqtopengl-devel wasn't installed. For some reason I thought it was.21:23
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shmerlCool, looks like it's compiling at last.21:35
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shmerlIs there any tutorial how to create RPMs for Mer?21:37
shmerlNever worked with RPMs much before.21:37
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jonnishmerl: if you have played with debs before, then old meego wiki with deb to rpm examples might be helpfull http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Deb_conversion_example21:39
shmerlThanks, looks useful.21:41
CosmoHillcyas21:41
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shmerlI'll probably remove the SDK and go over all the steps again to put them on the wiki somewhere.21:47
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shmerlAny news about Jolla? I.e. if they'll have open / closed UX and etc.21:48
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KaIRCbtw, good to hear that jolla is working with mer, will be interesting to see what's coming out of this effort!23:57
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