Wednesday, 2012-06-27

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phaeronheh nested  kvm actually working01:36
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E-PMorning Stskeeps, all05:29
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Sage_lbt: patch isn't in sdk by default probably should06:16
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srikanthstskeep: good morning ....i am not able get any mail from mer even after i subscribe to mailing list
lbtmorning - finishing of release email06:54
lbtsrikanth: can you ping smoku when he's around06:54
srikanthlbt:sure thanks06:55
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rcgwill any of you guys be on the bb jam in berlin tomorrow?07:53
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Stskeepsmorn slaine, how is it going?09:18
slaineMorning Stskeeps09:19
slaineNot bad I guess, busy with wrapping up a software release atm, squashing bugs on new hardware from suppliers09:19
slainethe usual :)09:20
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Stskeepssrikanth: is it nokia email?09:27
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Stskeepsmorn sledges09:32
sledgesgood morning Stskeeps !09:32
sledgeshow is llvmpipe going? :)09:33
Stskeepsquite good, on x8609:33
Stskeepson arm.. erm, not09:33
sledgeswhat's the difference?09:33
Stskeepsllvm jit isn't working as well on arm09:33
sledgesporting issues?09:34
sledgesdid you identify the culprit?09:34
sledgesor is it using ASM :))09:34
Stskeepsnormally when it gets to debugging JIT, i stop working at it09:34
srikanthStskeeps:it's gmail (
sledges8) ouch watch out for spam-bots crawling irc logs, srikanth09:35
Stskeepssrikanth: ok, odd09:35
Stskeepssrikanth: that should really work..09:35
srikanthStskeeps: ok :( will try again09:36
slaineStskeeps: weird that llvm jit isn't working on ARM, when you know, Apple are the main sponsors and all their llvm using iOS devices are ARM09:36
Stskeepsslaine: yes, that does wonder me too09:36
slaineMakes me think not everything is released09:36
Stskeepsslaine: makes me wonder if they're looking at medfield or simply not using the feature09:36
slaineOh I think they're using it alright09:37
slainefrom what I understand it's a core part of their infrastructure, Icbw though.09:37
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Stskeepssrikanth: where do you send subscribe mail to?09:41
srikanthi think i need to register to mer right09:42
srikanthor doing need to do some thing else09:42
Stskeepshmm, sec09:42
Stskeepssend an empty email to mer-general+subscribe@lists.merproject.org09:43
Stskeepsthen you get a reply with another mail to send to09:43
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srikanthStskeeps: thanks done10:44
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Stskeepslbt: i has powertop, where do i put it?11:26
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lbtStskeeps: Mer:Tools:Testing12:40
phaeron1iotop would be cool too12:41
lbtthere are "one or two" new bugs for tools packages :)12:41
Stskeepslbt: copypac or sr12:44
lbttend to copy to :Testing to allow 'us' to do some simple integration/install tests and then SR to Mer:Tools when you're happy it's ready for a release12:45
lbtat some point I snapshot Mer:Tools into a numbered release12:45
lbtcurrently that's just a download repo with src rpms - we'll move to a more reproducable approach one day12:46
Stskeepsok, copy from home:stskeeps:grande2 please12:46
Stskeepspkg powertop12:46
lbtyou not a maintainer in :Testing?12:47
Stskeepsno, and prolly good i'm not12:47
Stskeepsensures review12:48
lbtwell, ideally that's what Mer:Tools is for12:48
lbtgrr cElementTree.ParseError: no element found: line 1, column 012:49
lbtdone now12:49
* Stskeeps goes nap a bit12:52
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StskeepsSage_: so far no hiccups with rpmlint merge14:06
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Sage_Stskeeps: I'm a bit surpriced if there isnt' any :)14:13
Stskeepsyeah, me too :P14:14
Sage_lbt: hmmp... another thing with sdk... try: git help checkout14:15
lbtI've actually wondered about putting "man" into Tools14:16
lbtI don't think we want them in Core though14:16
Stskeepsmakes sense14:16
lbtand currently I think I may hack git help to print "$1"14:17
lbtStskeeps: man gcc ?  man bash?14:17
sledgesfellows, I tend to notice that embedded UXs tend to shift towards HTML5, as you could outsource the UI effort to any sophisticated web design company; and to my greatest disappointment Qt (e.g. Harmattan) shininess might just go down into the darkness, and we'll have to put up with mediocre UXs (appearance and performance) like current Tizen. What do you think?14:25
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Stskeepssledges: just because people use HTML5 for apps it doesn't mean we can't do shiny homescreens and compositors in qml..14:27
Stskeepsthe demand on a general ui is much higher than that of apps, typically14:27
sledgesas in 'theme/branding/skin' ?14:28
slaineAlso, Tizen home screen is an EFL app14:28
Stskeepswell, as in actual software that is always running14:28
Stskeepsslaine: .. and apps, the samsung guys were lying to us in their booth :P14:28
slaineI just assumed the apps where EFL too based on what raster has spoken about14:29
* sledges sometimes hopes Tizen's homescreen better was HTML5 by the looks of it :)14:29
slaineEFL is pretty good14:29
slaineI'm working on an EFL based STB I wrote a few years ago here.14:29
Stskeepsslaine: did you see our magical wayland demos, btw?14:29
slaineI did, most impressive14:29
sledgesbut can EFL bring back Qt[Quick] overall experience?14:30
Stskeepswell, they're trying with elev8(?)14:30
sledges(PS: Qt/N9's awards talk for themselves)14:30
sledgesthat's nearly the input I needed to look to the future again :) thanks mates!14:32
Stskeepsof course, this is qml all over again14:32
Stskeepsqtquick2 is scenegraph, v8, declarative14:32
sledgeshow about it's out-of-the-boxiness? can I get a datetumbler right out?14:34
Stskeepselev8? no clue14:34
Stskeepsi doubt they've discovered components just yet14:34
Stskeepsbut i may be wrong14:34
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bigbluehatStskeeps: I'm sure you heard about the webOS CE release, fwiw14:42
bigbluehatalso just saw this
bigbluehat"The Open webOS OpenEmbedded layer"14:43
Stskeepsbigbluehat: yess, but is it actually 'real' open webos?14:43
Stskeepsit seems more like packaging for opened bits14:44
Stskeepsfrom a 3rd party14:44
Stskeeps(nothing wrong with that, but it may confuse some..)14:44
bigbluehatno, it's not :)14:45
bigbluehatmeaning, not === open webos14:45
Stskeepsgot any videos with people actually running luna and such on non-touchpad/hp hw yet?14:45
bigbluehatwebOS CE, though is the first clear statement of what's actually happening14:46
bigbluehatnot that I've seen14:46
Stskeepsand it was interesting to peek at luna14:47
Stskeepsthough i can imagine that's going to be a headache on qt514:47
bigbluehatyeah...I've no idea :)14:47
bigbluehatI mostly want to build web things :)14:47
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bigbluehatlike Project Grande :D14:48
sledgeswow Project Grande;  Owner:~stskeeps14:49
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Stskeepssledges: story is that with each future project i had planned.. i ended up needing a mobile core for each of them that allowed me to port easily14:49
* sledges wonder about how many things he does not know yet14:49
Stskeepshence mer was born14:49
sledgeslabas, vilpan :) good to see homeland people!14:50
Stskeepsthough i hope we'll get to one day14:50
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Stskeepsin some form14:50
vilpansledges: hey, noticed you around, never guessed you could be somewhere close... :) My system started crashing for some unclear reason, so I guess my reconnects help me getting noticed :)14:53
sledgesnice big goals there, Stskeeps! I am [and will be] always concerned on a delivering UX, as that is the interface of all underlying computing; having come across Harmattan14:53
sledgesvilpan, too true! how are you Merring around? :)14:53
Stskeepsyeah.. though it's useful to have a stable foundation too14:54
* bigbluehat wants Project Grande on top of everything :)14:54
bigbluehator something very similar at least ;)14:54
sledgesguess concentrating on foundation and its interface could be the only two main pillars!14:55
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vilpansledges: so far, I'm just a lurker having a general interest in an open mobile platform. Can't find anything matching my concept of openness in the market, though mer seems promising, not sure how suitable for end-users14:56
sledgesand what is your concept, vilpan ?14:56
Stskeepsvilpan: ah, that one is easy: it's completely unsuitable for end-users :)14:57
Stskeepscombine with hardware adaptation and ui and you might have something that's much closer14:57
sledgesbut i essential for a tier which will make itself suitable for end-users :)14:57
vilpanStskeeps: yeah, I'm familiar with the basics, that it's the core and the end-user-facing components are something like nemo14:57
* bigbluehat wants all the pieces to be interchangeable everywhere on everything :)14:58
vilpanStskeeps: but having an open platform concerns me as a user as well. Something like android doesn't make me happy14:58
Stskeepsvilpan: sure14:58
* bigbluehat sips coffee...writes python...14:58
bigbluehat...and continues day dreaming :)14:59
sledgesbigbluehat, tea here (uk), same python though :D14:59
bigbluehat+1 for PG Tips!14:59
sledgesyes, builder's special :D15:00
* bigbluehat drinks tea most mornings, switches to coffee in the afternoon15:00
sledgeswhy don't you like Android, vilpan15:00
vilpansledges: to put it really shortly I want to own the systems I pay for15:01
sledgesAndroid is miles closer to that than, e.g. Windows Mobile/iOS...15:01
sledgesbut I catch your drift15:02
vilpansledges: well, GNU/Linux is great but I don't run Ubuntu for a reason... I like to make my own decisions, I'm tired of all those limitations and over-simplifications because the user is always considered dumb15:03
vilpansledges: similar with Android, it's a step in the right direction, but I still choose to use my old s60 that's a bit buggy instead of getting an android phone15:04
sledgesthat's where you get after being "a simple user" for a while, and wanting more control (not being an end-user anymore though).. That's why I've exchanged Ubuntu into ArchLinux also at my workplace with great joy15:04
sledgesthere are many Linuxy/not-Androidy efforts towards that: software: Mer & Co., hardware: Vivaldi Tablet, R&D HW: GTA04/OpenPhoenux; corporate level: Tizen15:06
vilpansledges: on one hand my needs are quite basic, though I hate things like restrictions on what software I can install (and where to get it from), not being able to stop some services that Google thinks I need, etc., etc.15:06
sledgesbut after Nokia died/killed; apart from Tizen, everyone else lacks a corporate power/experience/finances to produce a solid GNU/Linux SW+HW combo15:07
Stskeepsmy worry is that time is running significantly out for hardware support for glibc-based OS'es15:08
sledgesunless APAC (China etc.) start putting togeter devices-Android competitors run with Mer as base15:08
* sledges 's next toy will be Zenithink Zpad C71 for £64 from, replacing ICS with PA2 and maybe some other Mer experiments15:09
sledgesStskeeps, too true, too..15:09
sledgeswhat is Tizen based on?15:13
Stskeepsdepends who you ask..15:13
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sledgesI'll rephrase: Tizen's developer's device, does it support a glibc-based OS?15:14
Stskeepsyes, it runs one15:14
sledgeswell them might be one of our hopes :)15:15
* Stskeeps nods15:16
Stskeepswe're utterly screwed15:16
zeq1I'm holding out some hope some manufacturers will Microsoft's new stragegy, and take a serious look at Plasma/Active for tablets... Wishful thinking?15:18
sledgeswhat's M$'s new strategy, zeq1 ?15:19
zeq1I'm referring to their Windows8 stragegy.  Their own tablets, whereby they're competing with their OEM customers.15:21
sledgesas in: they'll try to sell W8 licences, at the same time selling it their with own HW :)15:23
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sledgesand then M$'s customer will start looking at PA instead, good plan! PA needs some more polishing and optimisations though, but hope they can time-to-market15:24
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sledgescompetition to Android/iOS could start boiling in markets other than tables/phones: set-top-boxes/TVs, industrial ones like: fridges/ATMs/cameras/sat-nav's/home-automation/.../HUDs:)/insert-your-gadget15:33
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phaeron1Stskeeps: how do I setup next repos in mds ?16:33
Stskeepsphaeron1: cheating.. git checkout tags in one and pull master in another16:34
Stskeepsmds2 is supposed to solve this16:35
phaeron1Stskeeps: ah so I need to instances16:35
aard_still, I guess it's worth it :)16:36
Stskeepsjust two core checkouts16:36
Stskeeps'lo jonni, good to see you here :)16:36
aard_is the next import on cobs automagic?16:37
phaeron1Stskeeps: mds next should also have a periodic pull16:37
Stskeepsno, manual work16:37
jonniStskeeps: thanks, good to be here :)16:37
Stskeepsjonni, if you have any questions feel free to ask at any time, else feel free to hang out :)16:38
dm8tbryay, the mer/plasma stuff is now 'official' for archos gen9 -
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Stskeepscool, any press release yet?16:43
Stskeepsstill yay16:45
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phaeron1Stskeeps: what am I supposed to change .. , I am a bit lost16:53
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ShmerlWere there any fixes for sb2 Mer SDK to work with Vivaldi image?16:57
Shmerllast time I tried it didn't work because of some sb2 / zypper issues.16:57
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Shmerl(related bug: )16:58
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Stskeepsphaeron1: mappings.xml17:02
phaeron1to point at what :D17:02
Stskeepscore-next checkout17:02
* phaeron1 feels stupid17:03
Stskeepsobs-projects i mean17:05
StskeepsShmerl: try again with newest sdk17:08
StskeepsShmerl: should work17:08
ShmerlOK, I'll give it a try (last time a did it some time ago).17:08
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lbtphaeron1: so those changes for MDS look useful19:01
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lbtjust looking for where this stuff lives - I don't think it's in git19:01
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lbtah, wait - wrong repo19:02
lbtI've made one or two small changes recently;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/lbt19:03
phaeron1the day has come I have to deal with gerrit19:04
lbtnot for that19:04
CosmoHilloh no19:04
lbtor at least, not in a code-review way19:04
CosmoHillI added a friend on facebook it recommened19:04
CosmoHillnow it won't shut up19:05
iekkuCosmoHill, add me, and i can promise i talk to you only in irc :P19:05
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phaeron1lbt: which ssh key is that19:07
lbtfollow the link...19:08
aard_iekku: how much do you pay for adding you on facebook? :)19:09
iekkuaard_, you can view nice pictures of me when you miss me?19:10
aard_iekku: that's not wife-approved19:10
iekkuaard_, pyh pah19:11
iekkuaard_, point was "one look and don't miss anymore"19:11
* lbt gets popcorn19:12
phaeron1you ...19:13
Stskeepsskip osc parts19:14
phaeron1I figured _that_ out :D19:15
lbtbut it should really use LDAP19:15
phaeron1I was thinking that19:15
lbtbut we suffered from "oh, we'll just get it setup and change it later" syndrome19:16
iekkuaard_, no new friend request :cry:19:23
phaeron1lbt: comments welcome19:23
phaeron1*duh that's what review is for19:24
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aard_iekku: who were you expecting one from?19:27
* lbt is watching rpm build .... packaging based on the real upstream git repo blended with pristine tar and mer's git-managed patches .... (oh, and it doesn't need spectacle aard_)19:27
aard_lbt: perfect. when can we meet and burn the remains of spectacle? :)19:28
lbtiekku: you don't exist19:28
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lbtaard_: when we move to .deb ....19:30
aard_lbt: ah, you want to take a more active part in the burning :)19:30
* lbt had to hack on rpm source code recently ... I had to shower afterwards19:32
aard_and you believe hacking on deb stuff would be better?19:32
lbtyes... it has this habit of having documentation matching the code19:33
aard_that's completely overrated19:33
phaeron1you showered ? that's an improvement :D19:33
* phaeron1 runs away19:33
* lbt decideds he *will* ask for test cases for phaeron1's patches19:34
iekkuwas there any popcorns left?19:34
lbtI can always be persuaded to make more popcorn19:35
aard_lbt: wow, I didn't know you can cook19:36
lbtoh yeah!  I can do noodles too!19:36
lbtiekku: Odin ... ROFL19:37
iekkulbt, it's true :)19:38
lbtaard_: friends-only joke :D19:38
iekkuaard_, now you see :)19:40
aard_iekku: but david was right, you don't exist19:41
Stskeepsi see we got a beer stand installed instead of a water cooler..19:42
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lbtblame iekku19:42
Stskeepstoo easy :P19:43
lbtphaeron1: 622 looks good - need to test it19:43
smokulbt: how do you do packaging based on git repo?19:45
lbtsmoku: ah, I thought no-one would ever ask :)19:46
* smoku is sorry it took so long19:46
* lbt waits for the dust to settle after Stskeeps and phaeron1 run away screaming...19:46
lbtfirst, you know git repo's have a tree of commits with a single base node?19:48
lbtwell, they can actually have multiple, independent trees inside one repo19:48
lbtso I make another tree that has the packaging stuff inside it19:49
lbtthat repo has a file that essentially points to a tag/sha1 in the master19:49
lbtand it uses 'git archive' to make an upstream tarball19:49
lbtthen we put mer patches against the upstream git19:50
lbtand use git to create a patch sequence19:50
lbtthose patches are cherry picked/rebased to a new upstream tag each time we change our packaging19:50
phaeron1and he has a script that does that stuff and you don't need to do any manual steps.. right ?19:51
lbtnow it upstream either don't have git, or if they also do releases as tarballs, we use pristine tar19:51
lbtthat gives us a binary identical (ie crypto-verifiable) upstream tarball19:52
smokufor the correctness sake - git repos have many heads, which eventually lead to base nodes, but the heads are tracked not the bases19:52
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lbtcorrect - the point is you can have 2 heads which don't share any commits/blobs19:53
lbtie the trees are discrete19:53
lbtall this means that we practically build direct from git, not tarballs+patches19:54
smokulbt: how does it differ from obs source service?19:55
lbtthe benefit are: in being able to push patches upstream, better patch mgmt, easier access to code to hack19:55
lbtsmoku: it would work alongside that19:55
lbtor ideally in a more integrated way19:55
smokuso, basically you create tarballs on demand (with git archive) and then proceed as usuall?19:56
lbtyes, as a phased approach we'd do that first19:56
lbtlater we'd stream from the git server -> cpio -x19:56
lbtso no need to create a tarball, copy, store, extract19:56
smokuhow do you manage versioning of these tarballs?  as rpm requires sequence versions for proper upgrades19:57
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lbtso conceptually we version in the same way as tarballs today19:57
lbtie upstream specifies version19:57
lbtwe then append -R19:58
lbtand for OBS .CI.BI19:58
smokuso upstream version 1.2.3 + n patches is still version 1.2.3 ?19:58
lbtbut 1.2.3-119:58
smokuclever. I didn'r thaught of that ;-)19:58
lbtif we change a patch then 1.2.3-219:58
smokuyup. obs is good for tracking these :)19:59
lbtyeah - although I have issues with default rules19:59
lbtbut that's for another day :)19:59
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lbtOK ... bbiab20:00
smokulbt: well... using upstream tarball + n patches applied by obs does not change upstream versioning, so having the patches "applied" in git makes no difference20:03
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smokuis there a way of telling spectacle which package should it attach the .lang file list?20:18
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smokulooking at the spec template - it is not20:38
Stskeepssounds like a good feature req20:40
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smokuStskeeps: here you are: MER40220:47
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lbtsmoku: no, the tarball is, by definition, pristine. The point of having them applied in git is that we can extract them into the spec-favoured patches easily21:08
lbtI'm writing it up as I go too - so more detail in the README21:08
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smokulbt: oh. so you've just scripted the approach I am using ATM.  cool :D21:28
smokulbt: take a look at
lbtyou use pristine tar?21:29
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lbtyes, though, that looks very similar to the output you'd get21:30
lbtideally we'll have some branch/tag naming conventions too21:31
smokulbt: upstream tarball imported to git tracking branch and then master rebased on the tracking branch, then all patches from the tracking head exported and inserted to yaml, then specify and done21:31
smokuloads of manual labor though :/21:32
lbtnow I also keep the yaml/spec/changes in git too:;a=summary21:32
lbtat the bottom, look at the tree's for the 2 branches21:33
smokuyes, I see them21:33
lbtand look in the mer-pkg tree at the _src file21:33
lbtI'm refining that format now21:34
lbtgit:osc-0.133.1.tar.bz2:0.133.1 means: use git (not pristine tar) to make osc-0.133.1.tar.bz2 using tag: 0.133.121:35
lbtthen make patches from 0.133.1..mer-master21:35
lbtthat _src is an interim that could drive a sourceservice21:35
smokuand you have separate tool that uses this _src file?21:38
smokuattaching it to surce service... neat21:38
lbtyes - not too big either21:39
lbtit sounds like you'd be interested so I'll get it into a repo somewhere tomorrow and you can play too21:41
phaeron1lbt: we use apache on cobs  , right ?21:42
phaeron1or nginx ?21:42
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lbtused to be lighttpd ... but too many security issues iirc21:44
rzrhi guys do you have a backup plan for ?21:46
lbtdo you mean a plan B or a way to recover lost data?21:46
rzra B C D .. Z plan yes21:46
rzrgood to know because i have none for harmattan21:47
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lbtI think maemo may need to start doing some fundraising soon21:47
rzrno hope w/ the tizen side ?21:48
lbtnot a chance imho21:48
lbttotal waste of time21:48
rzror opensuse ?21:48
lbtthat's possible21:48
rzri mean novel obs21:48
rzrthat's their toy ...21:49
lbtI think Mer is the best bet due to the fact that the OBS is not standard21:49
rzrand nokia belongs to the msft familly now , like novel :)21:49
rzrtmo talks about also supporting maemo5 too21:51
lbtI don't do tmo I'm afraid21:56
lbtI should remind vgrade to setup another OBS planning meeting21:57
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