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| iekku | morning | 04:36 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | morn | 04:39 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: morning! | 05:30 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: I have setup obs according to lbt's setup-obs.sh. Now, I can access https://fe:444 and http://fe:82, but can not access https://fe | 05:32 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: Any instructions? | 05:33 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: strictly speeking, I can access https://fe, but it is very very slow... | 05:39 |
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| phaeron | morning | 05:54 |
| sonach | phaeron: morning. Do you have any instructions for slow access to my local obs frontend? | 05:55 |
| phaeron | you mean your local obs is slow | 05:58 |
| phaeron | ? | 05:58 |
| sonach | phaeron: yes, just the obs frontend, which is a delicated VM, | 05:58 |
| sonach | phaeron: especially when I login, | 05:59 |
| sonach | it take about 2 minutes to login, | 05:59 |
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| phaeron | did you change anything in /srv/www/obs/webui/config/environments/production.rb ? | 06:00 |
| phaeron | and how much RAM does that vm have | 06:00 |
| sonach | phaeron: no, I just RUN lbt's setup-obs.sh without any modification. And the VM has 1536MB RAM, | 06:01 |
| phaeron | ok not bad amount of ram .. | 06:02 |
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| phaeron | sonach: can you give link to the script. | 06:04 |
| sonach | phaeron: https://github.com/lbt/obs-setup/blob/master/setup-obs.sh. and I run 'setup-obs.sh fe' | 06:05 |
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| sonach | phaeron: will SSL have some impacts on this? On my old local OBS server, I run be,fe(with SSL),worker and MerDS on the same server with only 2GB RAM, but the WebUI access is very fast, | 06:08 |
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| phaeron | I don't see anything out of ordinary | 06:11 |
| phaeron | is memcached running ? rcmemcached status | 06:11 |
| phaeron | and output of free -m | 06:12 |
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| sonach | phaeron: I think rcmemcached and memory is OK: http://pastie.org/4084605 | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: we encountered that issue too at some point. lbt probably remembers cause | 06:33 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: i'm on a business trip the next 10 days so don't expect i'm much around | 06:34 |
| iekku | oh, news in finland: nokia is ending salo factory, and ulm. cutting down oulu. 3700 people out | 06:34 |
| iekku | still not official, but... | 06:35 |
| timoph | where did you get that? | 06:35 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: I find that in /etc/apache2/vhost.d/obs.conf, "Listen 443" is commented... | 06:35 |
| iekku | timoph, hs.fi | 06:36 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: business trip:) and lbt is on business trip two? | 06:36 |
| iekku | http://www.hs.fi/talous/Nokia+v%C3%A4hent%C3%A4%C3%A4+Suomesta+3700+ty%C3%B6paikkaa/a1305574446698 | 06:36 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: yeah, seeing him tomorrow | 06:37 |
| Stskeeps | he should be here on irc today though | 06:37 |
| iekku | timoph, i think official info will come around 10 | 06:37 |
| timoph | yep | 06:38 |
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| iekku | info for shop stewards has been at 9, and info for nokia employees starts at 10 | 06:39 |
| sonach | iekku: Will this event impact Mer at some point? | 06:41 |
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| Stskeeps | only if it impacts qt | 06:42 |
| Stskeeps | but qt is a open project these days so less risk | 06:42 |
| sonach | yes :) | 06:43 |
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| iekku | maybe we get more people in | 06:46 |
| phaeron | sonach: you have swap which good enough too. so I can't find anything that would cause slowness. look at apache and obsfe logs and try to find out if anything is logged during the slow time | 06:47 |
| sonach | phaeron: where to check the log of obsfe? | 06:49 |
| phaeron | /srv/www/obs/api/log/ /srv/www/obs/webui/log/ | 06:51 |
| sonach | phaeron: I find "[warn] RSA server certificate is a CA certificate (BasicConstraints: CA == TRUE !?)" in apache_errors.log, | 06:53 |
| Bostik | wtf? | 06:53 |
| * Stskeeps waits to board to helsinki | 06:55 | |
| sonach | phaeron: there are some logs in /srv/www/obs/webui/log/production.log, but I cannot understand the log. Do you have time to have a look at it? If so, I will paste it out :) | 06:56 |
| phaeron | sonach: I can have a look but that ssl error looks weird | 06:57 |
| sonach | phaeron: weird? | 06:57 |
| sonach | phaeron: the lastest operation log is: http://pastie.org/4084725 | 06:58 |
| sonach | this log is about Adding MerDS as remote link, and it is timeout, | 06:59 |
| phaeron | not good | 07:01 |
| phaeron | sonach: what is FRONTEND_HOST in /srv/www/obs/webui/config/environments/production.rb | 07:04 |
| phaeron | brb | 07:08 |
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| E-P | morning | 07:14 |
| iekku | E-P, hi! are you coming to tampere tomorrow? | 07:15 |
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| E-P | iekku: unfortunaly no, I am still on vacation in Germany | 07:16 |
| iekku | E-P, oh, ok :( | 07:18 |
| E-P | iekku: are you going? | 07:18 |
| iekku | E-P, yes, for tomorrow. can't join devaamo summit on sat :/ | 07:19 |
| E-P | ok, have fun and say greetings to everybody | 07:19 |
| iekku | i will :) | 07:21 |
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| sonach | phaeron: FRONTEND_HOST = "192.168.188.143" | 07:31 |
| phaeron | is it accessible at that ip and port (FRONTEND_PORT and PROTOCOL in same file)? | 07:32 |
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| sonach | phaeron: it is https://192.168.188.143 very slow, | 07:33 |
| sonach | phaeron: https://192.168.188.143:444, which is API frontend, works fine, | 07:34 |
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| sonach | just https://192.168.188.143(:443) very slow, | 07:35 |
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| phaeron | sonach: try accessing the api from the webui machine | 07:36 |
| phaeron | *blink* | 07:36 |
| phaeron | same machine. so why not just use localhost | 07:37 |
| sonach | phaeron: oops!!! It is the backend(192.168.188.142) | 07:38 |
| phaeron | anyway it looks your webui is slow either because it can't access the api fast enough (?) or the api can't access backend | 07:38 |
| sonach | the backend's firewall blocks something! | 07:38 |
| phaeron | source server would be first guess | 07:39 |
| phaeron | port 5352 | 07:39 |
| sonach | phaeron: yes, it is that the api can't access the backend. In api/config/environments/production.rb, I find '5352'. I shut down the backend's firewall, then everything is OK, | 07:40 |
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| sonach | phaeron: thank you for your time to help me diagnosis this probem :) | 07:41 |
| phaeron | ok | 07:41 |
| phaeron | any time | 07:41 |
| sonach | phaeron: but I am strange why not access 443 port at all intead of accesing is very slow... | 07:42 |
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| sonach | in my POV, if the backend blocks the frontend, I will can not access the frontend at all, | 07:43 |
| phaeron | it keeps trying to talk to backend which is just not replying so it keeps waiting and waiting | 07:43 |
| sonach | cool. then I can go forward with my further OBS stuff :) | 07:43 |
| lbt | morning all | 07:45 |
| lbt | sonach: saw the backlog, good to see you're sorted out | 07:48 |
| sonach | lbt: morning :) It take me several hours to sort this out :( | 07:48 |
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| lbt | hehe .... you should hire some experts :D | 07:49 |
| sonach | lbt: I think the backend should let port 5352 and 5252 pass. any other ports additional? | 07:49 |
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| lbt | sonach: well, typically your front/back end machines have fairly open access between them | 07:50 |
| sonach | lbt: what do you mean by 'have fairly open access between them'? | 07:51 |
| lbt | they should be on the same LAN | 07:51 |
| lbt | and not have a firewall | 07:51 |
| lbt | I don't have a list of "all ports that OBS needs" | 07:52 |
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| sonach | lbt: there are VMs running on the same host machine, and share the same eth0. So I have to shutdown firewall of backend? | 07:52 |
| lbt | it depends on your installation and could include DNS, ntp, smtp, etc etc | 07:52 |
| lbt | well, honestly, that's not something I can just say "yes" to - I don't know enough about your installation | 07:53 |
| sonach | lbt: hmm... the backend VM is just for OBS backend, not do anything else, | 07:53 |
| lbt | I will say you should monitor the firewall between fe/be and see what's being blocked | 07:53 |
| lbt | the easy option is to permit all fe/be traffic | 07:54 |
| lbt | I don't know what your company security policy is | 07:54 |
| sonach | lbt: how to monitor the firewall under opensuse11.4? | 07:54 |
| lbt | in my old companies that would have been OK in development but not in production | 07:54 |
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| lbt | sonach: sorry, I just don't know that - I don't use the SuSe firewall | 07:55 |
| sonach | lbt: you mean, you just shut it down?? | 07:55 |
| lbt | I use low level iptables .... which is quite complex | 07:55 |
| sonach | ok, | 07:55 |
| lbt | but then I know what's happening in detail | 07:55 |
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| lbt | and fwiw I just open all fe/be traffic | 07:56 |
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| lbt | I limit fe traffic to known ports (which are different in production) | 07:56 |
| sonach | so you know what is all 'fe/be traffic'? | 07:56 |
| lbt | ie any port to any port bidirectional | 07:57 |
| sonach | you know, I install the OBS just RUN your setup-obs.sh script, | 07:57 |
| sonach | lbt: anyway, I can shut the firewall down now, and do some research on it later:) | 07:57 |
| lbt | *nod* | 07:57 |
| lbt | If you do, then please write up what you find | 07:58 |
| lbt | if you like you could send some contribution patches to improve the setup script | 07:58 |
| lbt | possibly provide an (optional) firewall setup script to run before the setup-obs.sh ? | 07:59 |
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| lbt | it's hard for me to do that since I don't have the same setup | 08:00 |
| sonach | lbt: I think I can add some 'echo' information after the start_be step? | 08:03 |
| sonach | or just write it down in the wiki page? | 08:03 |
| lbt | well, ideally we'd have a "test connectivity" script | 08:04 |
| lbt | you could setup socat to listen on the right connections on each machine | 08:04 |
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| lbt | then check and report on each connection | 08:05 |
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| lbt | :) ... you'd probably learn a fair bit about what connections are needed | 08:05 |
| lbt | eg the worker needs to run curl on port 5253 to the srcserver | 08:06 |
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| lbt | sonach: but before that, a list of connections would be a really useful addition to the wiki | 08:08 |
| sonach | lbt: this seems a little complex... | 08:08 |
| sonach | lbt: yes, I think I can add something to the wiki first ... | 08:08 |
| lbt | I know ... but we all contribute a bit to it and share the burden | 08:08 |
| lbt | that's what a co-operative *is* :D | 08:08 |
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| lbt | sonach: I think many people who start working with open-source eventually learn that it's not "easy" ... but it should be "easier" than alternatives. | 08:10 |
| sonach | lbt: yes, contribution is the CORE of open-source | 08:11 |
| lbt | so .. in this area (obs setup and debugging) it's good to have a target | 08:12 |
| lbt | and it would be nice to have a quick connectivity tester | 08:13 |
| lbt | but that's a lot to do in just one step | 08:13 |
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| lbt | so I think it would be a great longer term goal - and we can start a section on the wiki working towards it | 08:14 |
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| sonach | lbt: good point! I want to contribute to Mer at some point, and i find the directest way is to add something to wiki page. I will try to do this 'test connectiveity' stuff immediately after my local OBS can work. | 08:16 |
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| lbt | thanks :) that wll be useful | 08:17 |
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| sonach | lbt: you can give me more suggestions, because I don't know how to \\\\\\\\ | 08:17 |
| sonach | lbt: sorry, mistype :( | 08:18 |
| lbt | more suggestions about? | 08:18 |
| sonach | about what we can contribution. Anyway, today is a good start :) | 08:19 |
| lbt | Sure | 08:19 |
| lbt | Don't forget that you already contribute by talking about problems you have and we (sometimes) help solve them for you and others | 08:20 |
| lbt | you would not beleive how many people don't even come to talk about problems :) | 08:20 |
| sonach | :) | 08:20 |
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| phaeron | lbt: so the scenario that Stskeeps wants to use prjcopy for doesn't work in obs, either a bug in obs or mds | 08:32 |
| lbt | yeah - I forced myself not to get involved yesterday :) | 08:32 |
| lbt | didn't follow too closely | 08:32 |
| phaeron | lbt: the scenario I want to use it for is working, just need to add an option to make it part of submit request accepting | 08:33 |
| lbt | Well, I'd like to do a Mer OBS snap and release | 08:33 |
| lbt | can we do that first? | 08:34 |
| lbt | tidy the commits as much as possible and get Mer OBS 2.3.1.Mer1 out the door ? | 08:34 |
| phaeron | lbt: it's in good enough shape afaics | 08:35 |
| lbt | I thought so - the rebase on 2.3.1 is minimal | 08:36 |
| lbt | we should review the patches and decide what to keep/bin | 08:36 |
| lbt | and bear in mind we should go to cobs and CI with this | 08:36 |
| lbt | keep/defer | 08:36 |
| sonach | lbt: Now I am testing the new OBS. the 'build result' keep 'scheduled' for several minutes, | 08:47 |
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| sonach | lbt: how to debug this? | 08:48 |
| lbt | what arch? | 08:48 |
| lbt | and is your build machine 32bit ? | 08:48 |
| sonach | armv7el, x64, | 08:49 |
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| lbt | so that should be working | 08:49 |
| phaeron | he means the workers, what is their OS arch | 08:49 |
| sonach | all VMs are opensusu11.4 64 bit, | 08:49 |
| lbt | OK | 08:49 |
| sonach | lbt: Is there any log files to look into? | 08:50 |
| lbt | so check the worker is running properly | 08:50 |
| lbt | yes, tail -f /srv/obs/log/*.log | 08:51 |
| lbt | on the be | 08:51 |
| lbt | also on the worker I run : screen -r | 08:51 |
| lbt | use "ctrl-A" then "d" to leave the screen | 08:51 |
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| sonach | lbt: there are some errors, but I don't understand that: http://pastie.org/4085111 | 08:56 |
| lbt | rpc error: rpc timeout means some network problem | 08:56 |
| lbt | Can't exec "createrepo" means the package isn't installed | 08:57 |
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| lbt | "503 remote error: Service Unavailable" is actually OK - we're planning on making that sound less of a problem | 08:57 |
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| lbt | phaeron: we should hack Mer OBS to be nice about MDS link drops | 08:58 |
| sonach | lbt: but no network problem at all... the four VMs(fe,be,worker,mds) can ping each other | 08:58 |
| phaeron | lbt: actually the correct way would be to fix mds not to drop the link | 08:59 |
| phaeron | I am already testing a patch for that | 08:59 |
| lbt | phaeron: agree - was reading http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-19.txt | 08:59 |
| lbt | about how to handle drops of persistent connections | 08:59 |
| phaeron | first we make it persistent :D | 09:00 |
| sonach | lbt: and all VMs' firewall have been shut down, | 09:00 |
| phaeron | basically enable http 1.1 on the mds request handler and make sure all responses have proper content length | 09:00 |
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| lbt | phaeron: OK | 09:01 |
| phaeron | and hold the connection if there are no lastevents to report | 09:01 |
| phaeron | I already have the patch for that , you get one persistent connection per obs scheduler arch , but sometimes you get double connections so I am debugging that | 09:02 |
| lbt | sonach: so also need to check what servers are listening on the be | 09:02 |
| lbt | netstat -lnp | 09:02 |
| sonach | lbt: results on the be: http://pastie.org/4085135 | 09:04 |
| sonach | but I shutdown the firewall of be... | 09:04 |
| sonach | rpcbind is not started? | 09:05 |
| sonach | hmm... rpcbind is running. | 09:05 |
| sonach | lbt: can you get some results from the output of 'netstat -nlp"? | 09:06 |
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| lbt | sonach: if you see this... rpcbind is not needed - the rpc in question is an OBS one | 09:22 |
| phaeron | going to http://aaltotalkwithlinus.eventbrite.com/ wearing mer Tshirt :D | 09:23 |
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| * lbt afk for quite a while now | 09:30 | |
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| Stskeeps | morn slaine, sledges | 10:05 |
| slaine | howdy | 10:06 |
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| * Stskeeps hugs Mer | 10:10 | |
| timoph | :) | 10:12 |
| tadzik | hello | 10:13 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, it's good we have mer | 10:14 |
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| niqt | hi | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | lo niqt | 10:25 |
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| niqt | i reading nokia news | 10:27 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, it is a bit unsure what impact it'll have on qt | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | at least with mer we arent too tied to it, we can do html5 just fine too | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | or even gtk | 10:29 |
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| niqt | i don't like gtk | 10:29 |
| niqt | i use qt from 1997 | 10:29 |
| niqt | today is bad day | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | i think qt continues, and we're not about to exclude it from mer or something | 10:29 |
| aard_ | Stskeeps: qt is widely used outside of mobile phones for opensource and commercially, so I'm pretty sure it'll never drop below development effort on gtk | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:30 |
| aard_ | only that nokia probably won't pay for it in the long run | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | man, the weather is really awesome today in finland.. | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | lo icota, was good seeing you in SF | 10:31 |
| icota | Stskeeps: hi! nice seeing you too :) | 10:32 |
| icota | you guys discussing the nokia news? | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | a bit, not enough details out | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | it doesnt affect mer financing or project but trouble in any of the components is useful to discuss | 10:33 |
| icota | yeah i'm still waiting to hear from qt people employed there | 10:33 |
| slaine | I've clearly missed something regarding Qt | 10:33 |
| icota | too bad they're shutting down the ulm office | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: 10k employees out, rumours of qt based project shut down.. | 10:33 |
| slaine | Ouch, Nokia on the skids | 10:34 |
| icota | i'm thinking this might be a good thing in the long run | 10:35 |
| slaine | bbs, switching machines | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | sure, more innovative small to medium enterprises | 10:35 |
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| icota | Stskeeps: exactly, that's what i'm thinking | 10:35 |
| Bostik | it'll be rough for the next year or two, but it was going to be that way already so... | 10:36 |
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| icota | Bostik: why? you mean the financing is going to dry up? | 10:38 |
| Bostik | icota: not that - after last year's major announcement we already knew it would take a while to get any reasonable number of smaller companies up from the ruins of Nokia layoffs | 10:39 |
| Bostik | icota: this one now dumps additional 3k+ developers to the pool who need to figure out how to go from here | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | anyway.. in case anybody wonders, this does not change anything with Mer direction, it only confirms why we need to have this project | 10:41 |
| icota | more so than ever... | 10:41 |
| icota | does anyone know how many people where there in trolltech prior to the acquisition? | 10:42 |
| icota | can't be mora than 200? | 10:42 |
| icota | *more | 10:42 |
| icota | *were | 10:42 |
| icota | googled - it was 250-300 | 10:47 |
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| iekku | should we have status update for QA ? | 12:00 |
| iekku | is there anyone willing to join? | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | i'm around but lagge | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | d | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | and actually got QA info to share | 12:01 |
| iekku | oh, ok then | 12:01 |
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| sledges | morn Stskeeps | 13:11 |
| sledges | guys, where does nokia news mention Qt? (apart from 10k layoffs by end of '13) | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: it doesn't, but it is a bit bad indication that they've been asked to not commit any changes for a little bit.. | 13:13 |
| sledges | i just saw it long time ago as qt-project.org going on their owns already | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's good qt-project exists | 13:16 |
| sledges | any news from Meltemi world ? | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'll let you search on search.twitter.com for your own dose of rumours :P | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | at least we have mer :) | 13:18 |
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| rcg | yeah, imho going fully open source is the way to go :) | 13:21 |
| mja | https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/eeropenttinen etc | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | either way, i think qt-project is at a state where it might actually function as a proper open project | 13:22 |
| lbt | afternoon | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | afternoon lbt | 13:23 |
| lbt | back for a few mins before I have to go pickup the car from the garage | 13:23 |
| sledges | :) | 13:24 |
| sledges | hi lbt | 13:24 |
| lbt | he sledges | 13:27 |
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| Bostik | "asked not to commit any changes for a bit" | 13:34 |
| Bostik | well thanks a bunch, guys | 13:34 |
| Bostik | supposedly mere days away from -beta1 | 13:35 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: "at least with mer we arent too tied to it, we can do html5 just fine too", but I think now Mer uses qtwebkit to support html5, | 13:36 |
| sonach | and it seems that Qt is a kind of 'application framework' of Mer... | 13:37 |
| lbt | sonach: Qt is indeed an application framework for Mer | 13:38 |
| lbt | and it's a good one - it provides both native and HTML5 | 13:38 |
| lbt | but it's not the only one | 13:39 |
| sonach | lbt: "it's not the only one", so there are other alternatives? | 13:39 |
| sonach | what alternatives? | 13:39 |
| lbt | yes, including things like "boot 2 gecko" from mozilla | 13:39 |
| lbt | gtk | 13:40 |
| lbt | however, one reason for using Qt is that it's a proper open source project | 13:40 |
| lbt | so whilst investment may drop for a while - the risk of the project being closed is absolutely tiny (like zero) | 13:41 |
| sonach | i personally think gtk is not a good choice. yes, since qt-project is open, this event doesn't affect much. | 13:42 |
| lbt | We also chose Qt over Gtk and I doubt that will change in the near future | 13:42 |
| lbt | What this event will do is it will mean that other companies will have to find ways to fund Qt development | 13:43 |
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| lbt | but really companies should have been funding opensource projects anyway - in order to be involved and to be ready to handle any economic disruption | 13:44 |
| lbt | hmm ... I have to go catch a train | 13:45 |
| sonach | lbt: I personally think Mer had better insist on Qt :) | 13:45 |
| sonach | hesitation is not a good thing... | 13:45 |
| sonach | ok, good trip :) | 13:46 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 14:16 | |
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| timoph | Stskeeps: up for a beer/soda/something? | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: sure | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: i'm behind the railway station, not omena this time | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | sokos hotel villa | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | where are you at? | 14:37 |
| timoph | new factory | 14:37 |
| timoph | I'm just planning to leave here | 14:37 |
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| timoph | we can meet at the station | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | sure, where would you like to meet? | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | ah, lag | 14:38 |
| timoph | :) | 14:38 |
| timoph | it'll take me around 15mins to get there | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | k | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | i need to verify my stuff didn't go into pieces during flight, then i'll go | 14:38 |
| timoph | ok | 14:38 |
| * timoph starts heading to the station | 14:43 | |
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| CosmoHill | woof | 17:24 |
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| CosmoHill | to replace my laptop is about £1800 >.< | 17:51 |
| Venemo_N9 | :( | 17:53 |
| CosmoHill | fucking macs | 17:58 |
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| CosmoHill | I think mine cost £2100 when we bought it 7 years ago | 17:58 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 18:33 | |
| * CosmoHill sticks some fruit in | 18:33 | |
| Stskeeps | it's been a bad day, but i'm not as worried as on feb11 | 18:34 |
| CosmoHill | my boss kicked up a fuss yeasterday morning saying he could fire both of us and employee someone for the combined wage | 18:34 |
| CosmoHill | today he seems happy enough | 18:34 |
| CosmoHill | how come your day has been bad? | 18:34 |
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| phaeron | CosmoHill: at least because of http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/14/nokia-stock-down-by-more-than-10-on-massive-overhaul-revised-forecasts-exec-changes-vertu-gone-scalado-acquired/ | 19:12 |
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| CosmoHill | oh crap yeah, I heard about that on the news before work | 19:13 |
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| CosmoHill | I've just read of a website that adds a 6.8% surcharge for IE7 users | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | it costs to maintain for | 21:47 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.kogan.com/au/blog/new-internet-explorer-7-tax/ | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | that does actually give me some kind of idea.. | 21:49 |
| lbt_away | see you tomorrow Stskeeps o/ | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | yup, give me a sms when you land | 22:08 |
| lbt_away | will do | 22:08 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 22:11 |
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