Sunday, 2012-05-06

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* alterego compiles contextkit00:25
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* Stskeeps tries to make his body understand it's day00:28
* alterego installs00:28
alteregoStskeeps: how's it going?00:29
Stskeepsrandom parts of my body falling sleep :P00:29
Stskeepsstarted at 4am this morning in warsaw00:29
Stskeepssoon going out for dinner with peeps who are here00:30
alteregoI've started working on removing libmeegotouch from mcompositor btw00:30
alteregoIt's shockingly well put together ;)00:31
Stskeepsi'm a little too tired to commit to it more than the evaluation though at this moment00:31
Stskeepsbut if you see it as a good idea..00:31
alteregoSo the work to implement  declarative based compositor, and then hopefully a HTML5 based compositor is relatively straight forward.00:31
alteregoThat's okay.00:32
Stskeepsthe decorator being the key problem00:32
Stskeepsas it makes a dep on entire compositor for MTF00:32
alteregoI'm kinda bored at the moment anyway and fancied the challange.00:32
Stskeepswhich is kinda irritating considering mcompoisotr isnt half bad00:33
alteregoAlready built libdecorator, attempting to build libmcompositor, then it's just mdecorator and mcompositor which will be replaced with declarative-decorator and declarative-compositor.00:33
alteregoYeah, the code is really nice.00:33
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alteregoIt's almost like it was designed with the idea of replacing those parts with plain qt or qml based components ..00:34
alteregolibmcompositor has compiled successfully. So now all I need to do is make the qml counterparts of the decorator and the compositor :)00:35
Stskeepsheh, well, maybe plain qt00:35
Stskeepsqml hwever.. well, that was an interesting turf war00:35
alteregoThinking I might do a w00t and fork with a funky non-sensical name.00:36
alteregoLike .. "Eyeliner"00:37
alteregoThough, that's actually a pretty good name ..00:37
* Stskeeps heads on downstairs for good measur00:40
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alteregoWell, that's all that stuff built. Now I just need to implement the QML decorator. Which'll be fun ..01:01
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lbtStskeeps: 9am in lobby for breakfast?05:52
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E-Ptimoph: fixed the hwinfo, fixed tr-lite in my home OBS07:52
E-Ptimoph: before using that, remove old hwinfo07:53
timophwill try a bit later07:53
* timoph is busy killing zombies atm ;) 07:54
E-Pkill 'em all!07:54
CosmoHillE-P: that's Plan B (for it is always Plan B)07:55
CosmoHilloh wait, zombies, I thought you meant people - this is what happens when I read from the bottom of the screen up07:56
CosmoHilltimoph: what kind of zombies?07:58
E-Pare there different kind of zombies?07:58
iekkuE-P, yes07:58
iekkuE-P, there's one who just kills humans, then the ones who wants your brain (i'm safe), then the ones who eat the whole body08:02
iekkui hope timoph didn't speak same zombies what have been killed here... the music is so annoying in that game08:03
CosmoHillI was thinking: linux programs, slow walkers, big boys and sprinters08:04
E-Piekku: nice, always learning something new08:04
iekkuCosmoHill, :D08:04
CosmoHillI'm pretty sure zombies never ran before 28 days later08:04
iekkuCosmoHill, i think you are right08:05
CosmoHillon the plus side, the remaining population are all healthier08:05
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CosmoHillimagine doing a 4 min programming challenge with that music playing :o08:07
iekkui think i should see those again08:08
* iekku likes zombi movies08:08
CosmoHillI have 28 days later and I don't like scary films08:09
CosmoHillbut my friend likes them even less so I'm brave for him when we watch them08:09
iekkuzombi movies rarely scares me08:09
CosmoHillheck, that car scared me in 28 days later08:09
iekkui was scared when watching the others08:10
iekkuCosmoHill, btw, i find the sound track relaxing :)08:12
CosmoHillI wanna watch District 9 or 1308:12
CosmoHillboth are great films but very different and I can't quiet remember which was is which08:12
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CosmoHillwow, I've spent the last hour watching songs on youtube09:01
TermanaCosmoHill, that darn youtube can suck you in. It's mind washing I tells ya09:06
CosmoHillmy mind's pretty dirty so could do with a wash09:07
CosmoHillwas meant to be reading my book09:07
TermanaCosmoHill, if only you had stumbled across "Boyfriend - Justin Bieber" you may not have been caught in it for an hour.09:08
TermanaCosmoHill, what book are you reading?09:09
CosmoHillFoundation and Empire by Isaac Asimov09:09
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TofeHello !09:21
TofeI wondered: is there a Mer build for Tegra2/ARM that would be based on kernel 3.0 ?09:25
TofeI saw that the N9 build is still based on 2.6, and that the i586-vm one is 3.0 based. So I guess the switch is already managed, or at least not very hard to do09:25
smokuTofe: kernel is not a part of Mer. it belongs to HA. HAs are free to choose whatever kernel version they wish.09:27
Tofe"HA" ?09:27
smokuHardware Adaptation09:28
smokua running system consists of: HA (hardware dependend) + Mer Core + UX (user experience)09:29
TofeOk, I see. That's good :) The reason is, I'd like to try to build up a plasma active (or nemo mobile, I don't know yet) image for my tegra2 tablet, using the newest Linux4Tegra kernel available.09:29
smokuMer delivers only the middle of the sandwitch09:29
Tofeyes, I just didn't know about HA, the rest is ok09:29
smokuwhich tablet?09:30
TofeIconia Tab A50009:30
smoku(as I'm in the process of doing the same for A100)09:30
TofeI've already tried with the plasma active image from vgrade, it worked fine09:30
smokulook at XDA A500 section09:31
smokuthey've been pretty successful at running Ubuntu on A50009:31
smokuyou should be able to reuse their work for HA09:31
Tofeyes, they've got ICS rooted with an unlocked bootloader, it's quite interesting09:31
Tofethat's how I did boot Mer as a recovery, keeping Android installed09:32
smokusame here. custom boot.img booting Mer of sdcard09:33
TofeBooting Ubuntu is nice, but it not really tablet-friendly. So I'm more looking for a Maemo/Meego alike OS09:33
smokuyou should be able to use their kernel + boot image as HA for Mer09:33
smokujust replace the user-space image09:34
TofeYes, I think so too. The big question being the hardware acceleration/support.09:34
TofeMy goal would be to have wifi and GLES working; GPS would be a plus, but it's not necessary for me.09:35
smokuthis just got better. nvidia released new linux4tegra package last month - you have everything that is needed there. including opengl drivers09:35
TofeYes, it looks good :)09:35
TofeHowever I'll have to check if the kernel proposed by the xda guys is the same as the one from nvidia, because it doesn't seem like we have the source of the nvidia drivers...09:36
Tofebut maybe it's not a problem, and only X matters here.09:36
smokuyou need to use the acer kernel to have the hardware support09:37
smokuor port the board to nvidia's kernel09:37
smokuyour choice ;-)09:37
Tofealso, fastboot is interesting: it looks like we can give arguments to the kernel we launch -- I'm thinking about root=xxx09:37
smokuyeah. I wish I coud have the unlocked bootloader on A10009:38
TofeThey haven't found yet how to do it ? I would have thought it would be very close to A50009:39
Tofe(although the procedure for A500 seems... well... user-unfriendly)09:40
* CosmoHill is repairing a computer in the bath09:43
CosmoHillthe joys of watercooling09:43
Tofesmoku: By the way, how far are you in your A100 tests ?09:45
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TofeDid you integrate the Linux4Tegra stuff ?09:47
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TofeThere is still a little piece I didn't catch: what is Mer:Core ? Is does look like it contains the kernel. Or does Mer:Core only have a sense is an "adaptation" ? So Mer:Core would be a part of Mer, but it is not implemented by the Mer team ?09:57
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StskeepsTofe: Mer Core (not sure where you're seeing Mer:Core) is just a core, adaptations are external10:07
Stskeepslbt_away: OK10:07
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TofeI'm seeing it on, the naming is quite confusing. But that's ok, I've understood :)10:21
StskeepsTofe: gives a better view10:21
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Stskeepswoo, Mer BoF and my talk was accepted at Devaamo summit10:23
iekkuand i can't be there on sat :x10:24
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iekkuand sun is problematic also10:24
Stskeepsyeah.. so it goes :)10:24
iekkuwife's favorite band playing in helsinki on sat...10:25
iekkubut, now. something totally different! going to build a frameset for my herbs10:26
alteregoAre you still awake Stskeeps ?! O_O10:28
Stskeepsalterego: woke up after 6 hours of sleep, probably will nap some more before morning come10:29
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Stskeepsalterego: how did the qml decorator stuff pan out?10:47
alteregoAll the other components are built now without any meegotouch deps. I was planning on starting to implement a basic qml decorator today.10:50
alteregoBut I did get the compositor running in Xephyr on my development laptop :)10:50
Stskeepsprobably easier on device, given actual working DRI10:50
alteregoSo my next steps are get basic QML decorator, then start with device hacking10:51
alteregoWhat do you think of the name "Eyeliner" :)10:51
Stskeepssure, why not10:51
alteregoGoing with w00ts cosmetics convention ;)10:52
Stskeepsok, why does my mind crave beef at 4am in the morning10:54
Stskeepsthis can't possibly be healthy10:54
alteregoBut yeah, a complete decorator will be a bit of work. especially as complete as the meegotouch decorator. I need to get bits out of meegotouch for orientation handling, and otber device states too.10:55
Stskeepsinitially even a 'hey, frame this window' is ok, just to get rid of that bloody dep10:56
Stskeepsas with swipeish gestures, you don't really need decoration10:56
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Stskeepswhich makes me wonder how much perf it costs android to have soft buttons10:59
alteregoYeah, though having a decorator does mean we can implement some neat things11:00
alteregoAnd run non components based apps and have them show a task bar.11:01
Stskeepsurgh, yeah.. the @%@% systemui11:01
alteregoI also have some ideas for ux design with regards to window decorations.11:02
CosmoHillhey alterego11:02
alteregoHe CosmoHill11:02
alteregoHey ...11:02
CosmoHillI'm slowly rebuilding my watercooling system for my powermac11:04
alteregoHeh, I should get something to eat, like breakfast or lunch ..11:04
TermanaStskeeps, (re: beef) maybe because it's afternoon back in Poland? :p11:04
StskeepsTermana: yeah.. but even 1pm is weird time for beef11:05
alteregoNot on a Sunday!11:06
alteregoThat's Sunday roast time11:06
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alteregoThough probably a British thing ;)11:06
alteregoMmmm, roast beef and yorkshire pudding...11:07
alteregoThink I'll make sure my version of the compositor handles orientation properly. Harmattan is a bit glitchy when you use it in landscape mode...11:09
alteregoLike the swiping out from one landscape app to another app in landscape causes far too many orientation changes ..11:10
Stskeepsyeah, i hate that part11:11
alteregoEspecially when it's the web browser and you also have to wait for the engine to redraw the page -_-11:13
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* Stskeeps tries to catch more sleep, bbl11:31
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smokuTofe: I have a kernel booting and working on boot.img12:08
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CyFusis the n8x0 series getting any attention and if so where can i find it?12:34
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CosmoHillmy mac is annoying16:45
CosmoHillit was over heating and it's cost me £1.39 for new parts16:45
CosmoHillwtf apple16:45
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dm8tbrAlison_Chaiken / lbt_away / Stskeeps - I guess I can buy a one way ticket at the SFO BART station with CC or do I need cash? (The BART page says there are machines that accept CC but I can't figure out if those also sell one way tickets. I only guess they do)17:22
Alison_ChaikenThere are CC machines at BART, although it's complicated.17:22
Alison_ChaikenYou can buy a ticket with credit card, but if you don't have enough credit left on the ticket when you go to exit the station, you're supposed to "Add Value" with cash.17:23
Alison_ChaikenNo idea why that is!17:23
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Alison_ChaikenSo use a CC to buy an exact fare from SFO to Embarcadero station.17:23
Alison_ChaikenYou won't need to change: take any train.17:23
Alison_ChaikenAny train that doesn't go to Millbrae, that is!17:24
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vgradeAlison_Chaiken, \o17:40
* CosmoHill wonders if he can get a monitor big enough to mount it as a window and pretend to wake up in other countries17:41
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dm8tbrAlison_Chaiken: thanks, this actually makes this much more clear for me. I'd buy the ticket cash, but only have 4 local currency unitts left in my wallet. :)18:16
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simon__hi folks:)20:07
simon__I have troubles compiling kernel modules: "xen/xen.h no such file or directory" anyone here had the same problem?20:08
Stskeepskernel adaptation ?20:10
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simon__Stskeeps: should i leave it and try another kernel?20:14
Stskeepswhat module are you trying to se?20:14
simon__it is my usb driver for a rotary controller, just a USB module.20:16
simon__goes into usb/misc20:16
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Stskeepshello juliusaugustus :)20:25
Stskeepssimon__: might be a bug, file it in bugs.nemomobile.org20:25
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: so what brings you here? :)20:26
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juliusaugustusso any progress on porting mer existing devices20:26
simon__stskeeps: will do; should it work against other kernels?20:27
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: sure,
Stskeepssimon__: i think it's just a packaging error20:28
juliusaugustusok cool20:28
juliusaugustusany progress on Qualcomm based devices20:29
simon__stskeeps: ok, creating bug...20:29
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: the problem is the graphics drivers20:30
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: which doesn't really exist outside WebOS and Android20:30
Stskeepsand not usable from there20:30
vgradesimon__ hi, seen
juliusaugustuswell the HP Touchpad received a port of Tizen20:31
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: really? URL?20:31
Venemovgrade: meego ivi? is that thing stil developed?20:31
simon__vgrade: cool!20:31
vgradeVenemo, no, shame really20:31
juliusaugustusnexus one and HD2 also recieved a meego port20:32
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: a, that's not tizen20:32
juliusaugustuswell similar20:32
Stskeepsvery difficult20:32
Stskeepsvery different20:32
Venemojuliusaugustus: I'm not sure whether those ports even had hw acceleration working.20:32
Stskeepsthat too20:32
Stskeepsi've done mer on touchpad with graphics acceleration but no multi-process gles20:32
Stskeepsand i couldnt publkish it as it's 'taken' from webos20:33
juliusaugustushas there been any efforts towards making an open source adreno driver20:33
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: i think rob clark has worked on it20:33
Stskeepsbut that stuff takes time20:33
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simon__vgrade: i will prepare my demo shortly, unfortunately kernel modules won't build :(20:33
Stskeepssimon__: is the kernel module part of the linux kernel usually, or external?20:34
vgradesimon__ for shuttleexpress20:34
juliusaugustusa lot of devices ship with qualcomm hardware it would be ideal to get mer running, primarily htc devices20:34
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: sure, but remember that aftermarket hardware adaptation is really difficult20:35
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: but yes, qualcomm would be a win for any non-android20:35
Stskeepswithout graphics acceleration things run fine, though20:35
simon__stskeeps: external20:35
juliusaugustuswell an open source adreno driver would benefit both Android and MER20:36
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: the problem here is that companies want support for their graphics driver usage20:36
Stskeepsie, somewhere to file bugs and get it fixed20:36
Stskeepsand that you need to have qualcomm doing instead20:36
juliusaugustusnot produced by the company, community developed20:36
Stskeepsalso, there's the whole problem of patents..20:36
Stskeepsas you get patent permissions along with vendor gfx license usually20:37
juliusaugustushow was the open  source mali 400 dirver prossible20:37
Stskeepsit's not really..20:38
Stskeepsnot complete in anyt way yet20:38
juliusaugustushow was it from a licesing perspective possible20:38
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Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: they're reverse engineering and releasing as open source.. it does not mean that you can as a vendor sell a device with this driver on, without paying license royality fees to the patent holders20:39
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juliusaugustuswell couldn't that model be for open source adreno drivers. A purely no commercial no vender model. Mostly for enthusiasts.20:40
Stskeepssure, but what about open source hardware vendors? :)20:40
Stskeepsthey can't afford to be hit with lawsuits20:41
Stskeepsthink vivaldi for instance20:41
juliusaugustusthen they got to distrubute the devices with closed drivers and allow users to replace them20:41
Stskeepsyes.. and what did i just say about the drivers not existing? :)20:41
Stskeepsso we're back at the problem20:42
juliusaugustusI guess drivers will always be a nightmare20:42
Stskeepseither way, mer doesn't contain hardware adaptations, they're external to the project as to make it as possible to make mer as open as i can20:42
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Stskeepser, we can20:42
Stskeepsand let hw adaptations have their own choices and schedules20:43
vgradejuliusaugustus , I have struggled in this area since starting with MeeGo a couple of years ago.  The best we can expect is the SoC vendors to keep current with kernel, xorg and toolchain versions and provide blobs20:45
juliusaugustusthen how is mer in terms of feature completeness20:45
vgradejuliusaugustus, funnily enough the best I'm seeing at the moment is nVidia with Tegra 2/3 SoC's20:45
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juliusaugustuswhat about mali based devices like exynos20:46
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juliusaugustushave you guys considered implementing mono support20:47
vgradejuliusaugustus, the STE mail SoC is well represented. I've not seen any hardfp for exynos20:47
vgradejuliusaugustus, about features Mer is providing an up to date set of core pacakges,
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vgradejuliusaugustus, I've not seen mono support mentioned20:50
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: no mono support, feel free to add it yourself in your device20:50
juliusaugustuswell it could be useful for the core platform20:51
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VenemoStskeeps: how's Mer on N9(x0)?20:52
StskeepsVenemo: quite nice20:52
Venemoawesome? :)20:52
Venemoand have you guys managed to find a suitable driver for the ideapad's broadcom wifi? I've been kinda out of the loop for some time.20:53
vgradejuliusaugustus, mono is building for rpm on opensuse so possibly an easy port to Mer20:53
juliusaugustuscool. Mono could enable ease of development and inter-operability with other platforms20:54
StskeepsVenemo: haven't really touched that20:54
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: generally we try not to include everything into the core, but people are more than welcome to build their own stafcks20:54
ali1234speaking of ideapad, the touchscreen on mine behaves really odd on recent distros20:54
juliusaugustusfair enough20:54
Venemoali1234: what's odd?20:55
ali1234anyone seen that? it moves the mouse pointer but does not register "clicks"20:55
ali1234except... sometimes it does20:55
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Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: mer is much about 'roll your own with ease'20:55
ali1234eg in plasma active, i can click on some buttons but not others20:55
Stskeepsie, the fewest people would run mer in it's purest form20:55
ali1234it's always consistent so it must be a high level thing with the OS not realising/treating it as a touchpad20:56
Stskeepsali1234: perhaps mtev vs not20:56
Stskeepswell, if there wasnt a proper setup for it20:57
Stskeepsand using evdev instead20:57
ali1234it used to work though...20:57
ali1234just ... stopped recently20:57
ali1234it's ubuntu though so if nobody else saw it... they probably broke it with a distropatch20:57
vgradeali1234, meego or mer plasma20:57
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juliusaugustusout of curiosity what is the difference between mer and meego20:58
ali1234vgrade: not tried either of those, sorry :)20:59
ali1234just wondered if this was a known widespread problem, ofr just something local to ubuntu... and everyone here has one so...20:59
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: historically, we're derived from the meego 1.3 work, stripped down to be a core and taking out hw adaptation stuff and UIs20:59
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: and a lot of stuff towards making it easier to productise20:59
Stskeepsis work in progress21:00
juliusaugustusseems to rely on a fairly similar set of utilies21:01
Stskeepsthe difference is that meego is dead :)21:01
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: check out - 'attachments' for some of the reasoning21:02
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juliusaugustusthere still seems to be some community activity behind meego21:04
Stskeepsmaybe the meego that is on n9, which is not real meego21:04
ali1234harmatten people? or does that fall under maemo still?21:04
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Stskeepsn9 is harmattan which has stack wise nothing much to do with meego21:05
vgradejuliusaugustus, there is also Intel activity in IVI monthly releases21:05
ali1234maemo mailing lists seem to have a lot more traffic than the meego ones these days21:05
vgradejuliusaugustus, but that will stop soon21:05
Stskeepsyes, but that's because there's the equivalent of a civil war there..21:05
juliusaugustuswhat about moblin21:06
ali1234oh really?21:06
Stskeepsmoblin is long dead21:06 is intel's answer on things21:06
dm8tbrs/answer/today's answer/21:06
ali1234i kind of miss the maemo drama now everyone is doing their own thing21:06
Stskeepsdm8tbr: when do you arrive?21:07
juliusaugustusthe goals should be to unite everyone efforts21:07
dm8tbrStskeeps: right now in an airport hotel in vantaa, in 6h HEL-FRA, then FRA-SFO. arrival monday 1220 local time21:07
Stskeepsjuliusaugustus: yeah.. frankly, that's why we do mer - we work together on the really dry stuff and allow people to be flexible on the areas thy're not21:08
Stskeepsdm8tbr: OK21:08
dm8tbrso with immigration and everything I should be there on time ;)21:08
juliusaugustusalways loved maemo people there got into some extreme arguments ahh the good old days21:09
juliusaugustusmaybe I will get one of those maemo devices does mer work at all on an N810?21:13
ali1234yes, but you realise mer doesn't have a UI right?21:15
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juliusaugustusmer with a UI?21:19
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CosmoHillhi there21:34
CosmoHillSpaceDick: .o/21:34
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