Friday, 2012-05-04

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IanWizard-Cloudhey, I'm near there.00:23
IanWizard-CloudI'm opting not to go.00:24
IanWizard-CloudI dont really care for Tizen, from what I've seen of it.  And really from how tightlipped they're being... but IMO.00:24
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wmaroneha, hell03:57
wmaronethe only Ubuntu releases that will boot, natively, on a Mac are the x86_64 versions03:57
iekkuhuomenta04:02
Stskeepswmarone: ouch?04:08
wmaroneannoying mostly, looking to see what option for getting the stupid tizen sdk going on it is most feasible04:08
Stskeepsvirtual machine?04:08
Stskeeps:P04:08
wmarone1.5GB of RAM makes for a very grumpy VM04:09
wmaronemight have to though, just cause of the multitude of possible compatibility issues with an x86 chroot04:09
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* Stskeeps tries to wake up04:26
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sonachStskeeps: hi, I want to do a test for QtWebkit in qml. Is 'import QtWebkit 1.0' correct for Mer?05:22
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E-P Morning all05:27
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Stskeepssonach: should be, yes - install libqtwebkit-qmlwebkitplugin and libqtwebkit405:50
sonachStskeeps: I have already installed this two and test HTML5 video successfully. Now I am wondering whether the version of 'QtWebkit' is '1.0' or other,05:51
Stskeepssonach: think you may possibly be able to do 1.1 as well05:53
Stskeepsit's just the API version, i think05:53
sonachStskeeps: OK:)05:53
* Stskeeps will be leaving for tizen conference tomorrow and back in europe on 11th05:54
Stskeepssonach: out of curiousity, what are the popular HTML5 APIs/runtimes in china?05:56
timophhave fun05:56
sonachStskeeps: what is 'HTML5 APIs/runtimes'?05:56
timophI really hope there could be some co-operation with tizen05:56
Stskeepssonach: well, if there's any typical ways people distribute html applications05:56
Stskeepsfor smart TV, cellphones, or other05:57
sonachStskeeps: Can you give me an example?05:57
Stskeepssonach: never mind :) i'm a little tired today and don't remember exactly what i was going to ask about :)05:58
sonachStskeeps: NP:)05:59
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* Stskeeps is going to nap for an hour or so, bbl06:13
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lbt_awayStskeeps: I'll do another snap06:17
Stskeepsno :/06:24
Stskeepsit hasn't finished up06:24
Stskeepsblocking on qtwebkit06:24
lbt_awayyou sure?06:26
lbt_awaythey look like DBC builds06:26
lbt_awayStskeeps: ^06:27
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SageStskeeps: zlib, nss, gstreamer, openssl and  pcre would need kick at leats06:35
Stskeepslbt_away: check armv606:39
StskeepsSage: ok06:40
lbt_awayStskeeps: http://webui-ci.tspre.org/monitor/old06:42
lbt_awaythere is no armv6 ... which explains it06:43
lbt_awayOK ... abandonded it06:43
lbt_awayoff to airport :/06:43
Stskeepshave a good flight06:43
lbt_awaywill do ... see you all soon06:44
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sonachStskeeps: How to change the UserAgent in QtWebkit? (similar to userAgentSwitcher of Chrome)06:58
Stskeepssonach: hmm, moment07:02
Stskeepshttp://qt-project.org/wiki/How_to_set_user_agent_in_Qt_application but this doesn't tell you how to do it with just qmlviewer, this is with a qml launcher of your own07:04
sonachStskeeps: OK:)07:04
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sonachStskeeps: Is there any way to set userAgent in WebView of QML?07:11
Stskeepssonach: only good way is if you make your own 'qmlviewer', ie, qdeclarativeview and qapplication, in c++, and set the application there07:11
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Stskeepshey goldy :)07:12
sonachStskeeps: OK,07:12
goldyhi07:12
Stskeepsgoldy: welcome :) so what brings you here to #Mer ?07:13
goldyi am unable to use power button of my n900 tu turn it off07:13
Stskeepshold it down for 30+ seconds07:13
byakoStskeeps:  what ? :D07:13
Stskeepsbyako: morn07:13
byakoStskeeps: morn, how about using temrinal or removing a battery ?07:14
goldythanks07:15
goldywhile using internet browser unable to dowload any mp3 file07:16
goldyi installed it on memory card07:17
Stskeepsbyako: we have a thing in DSME that listens to power button07:17
Stskeepsand if it's down for more than 30+ sec, it forces off07:17
Stskeepsand saves file system07:17
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goldywhile using internet browser unable to dowload any mp3 file07:19
Stskeepsgoldy: yes, there's not any good download functionality07:20
goldyis there any one who can answers my probleb07:20
goldy?????07:20
goldyok07:20
goldywill it be resolved07:20
goldysoon07:21
Stskeepsgoldy: well, when someone makes a patch07:21
Stskeepsfile a bug in bugs.nemomobile.org07:21
goldyi uninstall the u boot but it still shows it on startup07:23
Stskeepsyou have to reflash kernel07:24
goldyhow to do that07:24
Stskeepsit should say on pages somewhere, along with a warning that 'don't install uboot if you don't know how to flash back' :)07:25
goldyi have to reflash the image ????07:26
timophno07:26
timophjust the kernel07:26
goldyok i will try07:26
goldythanks for help07:27
timophcan't remember the flasher options to do that off my head07:27
timophbut that should be documented somewhere07:27
timophsudo ./flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> --flash-only=kernel -f -R07:27
timophhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_only_the_kernel_from_a_FIASCO_image_.28expert_topic.21.2907:27
goldyokkkkkkkkkk07:28
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timophoh. btw, got the mer+cordia image for n900 done07:29
timophnot much to look at currently :)07:29
Stskeepscool07:34
timophneed to hack with a bit to see why it only shows the task switcher button. it "works" but only shows a black screen07:36
timophalso the settings menubar can be accessed but doesn't work07:36
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Stskeepsmorn mdfe_ :)07:37
mdfe_good morning07:37
mdfe_Stskeeps: could you take a look to https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=Project%3AKDE%3ATrunk%3ATesting ?07:38
Stskeepsmdfe_: yes, we're aware that -next is 'blocked'07:39
Stskeepsignore it please :)07:39
mdfe_all mer-next build states are looking strange07:39
mdfe_ok07:39
Stskeepsme and lbt managed to talk past eachother so he snapshotted while things were still building in mer obs07:39
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byakoStskeeps: tha't the dark side of keeping all things in one place :)08:02
byakoStskeeps: any ETA for unblocking ?08:02
Stskeepsbyako: we had hoped this morning but sometimes darwin's law kicks in08:03
Stskeepser..08:03
Stskeepsmurphy's08:03
Stskeepsbyako: you can, potentially, in your <repository> line, have <repository block="never"> instead08:03
byakoStskeeps: will try, thanks08:03
byakoStskeeps: hmm, is it so, that block="never" also removes dependency tracking so all of packages are rebuild at once instead of queue or is it just because none of them are changed ?08:07
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Stskeepsno, it just won't wait for up path project to finish blocking08:08
Stskeepswell08:08
Stskeepsok08:08
Stskeepsyou might want block="local" instead08:08
timophStskeeps: btw, do you have anything against tmo having a section for Mer?08:10
byakoStskeeps: aha08:11
Stskeepstimoph: i don't, but for various reasons i don't want mer tied too much into maemo.org..08:11
timophunderstandable08:11
timophin any case it will be discussed there and imo having a single place would help to follow Mer related things there08:12
Stskeeps:nod:08:12
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Stskeepsmorn eocanha, slaine08:13
eocanhahi08:14
slainemorning folks08:15
byakoStskeeps: there seem to be just huge pile of info to be learned about project, for example, why binary package's %{version}-%{release} is different from spec's :\. I assume it's something related to the release and internal configuration of RPM packager, but still it's a bit distracting08:16
Stskeepsbyako: OK, so, OBS doesn't care about Release: tag in spec, instead, by default, it sets it to a <CI_CNT>.<B_CNT>08:17
StskeepsCI_CNT is amount of checkins done to the package08:17
StskeepsB_CNT is how many rebuilds of that B_CNT08:17
Stskeepserr08:17
Stskeepsof that CI_CNT08:17
Stskeepsbyako: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html08:18
Stskeepsunfold some of the concepts08:18
SageStskeeps: pushed rpmlint update to review08:18
Stskeepsok08:19
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byakoStskeeps: Okaay, interesting08:44
Stskeepsbyako: that's a dump of most of my obs knowledge from some months back08:45
slaineSage, will that fix the problems with xcb_utils etc.  ?08:49
Stskeepsslaine: that was another issue08:50
slaineAh08:50
Stskeepsooh08:50
Stskeeps-now- i can order my r-pi08:50
slainemine is on it's way08:50
X-FadeMine is shipped already :)08:51
slainecan't wait08:51
byakorays of envy to everyone08:51
Stskeepsor not08:51
byakowhere did you order Pie from ? Allied Electronics ?08:53
byakoEl14 & rs-online still not taking orders, only "soon available"08:53
X-Fadebyako: farnell08:54
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slainefarnell for me too08:55
StskeepsArgh! Finally received my @Raspberry_Pi order invitation email from RS Online, but the activation code box is greyed out and disabled08:56
Stskeeps^ same proble08:56
Stskeepsm08:56
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byakoHuh ? Where are you from ? US ? Europ's Farnel shop doesn't have any price or Order possibility :\08:57
X-Fadebyako: Ordered on the first day.08:58
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byakoX-Fade: ok, so it's really so that ordering currently one has a chance to get his pie aound autumn :) Allright then09:00
X-Fadebyako: I think there are 300k preorders waiting before you :)09:00
timophX-Fade: wow. you actually managed to get through. I gave up after 20 mins of trying to connect :)09:00
X-Fadetimoph: Had no issues at al, just worked for me.09:01
X-Fade*all09:01
timophdone anything interesting with it?09:02
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X-Fadetimoph: Just got ups tracking number :)09:03
timophah :)09:03
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byakoStskeeps: hurray :) hdmi doesn't go sleep anymore, no screen blanking09:06
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Stskeepswoo09:07
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sonachStskeeps: where is the source code of qmlviewer? in qt-everywhere-opensource-src?09:13
Stskeepssonach: yes09:15
sonachok,09:15
Stskeepswoo, raspberry pi ordered :)09:16
* timoph is jealous09:16
E-PStskeeps: any estimations when they can deliver that?09:16
Stskeepsclaimed dispatch in 7 days09:17
Stskeepsi was on waiting list at rs-online fwiw09:17
E-Pah, then09:18
sonachStskeeps: But I can not find 'qmlviewer' in qt source code. Is it renamed?09:18
E-Psonach: if I remember correctly, it is under the tools/qml09:19
E-P(in Qt 4.x)09:21
sonachE-P: yes, tools/qml is the source code of qmlviewer! But I don't find Makefile there, So how to make it seperetely?09:22
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Stskeepssonach: https://gitorious.org/project-grande/html5-launcher/trees/master may be of use09:23
Stskeepsthat is used with 'qmake', which makes you a Makefile09:23
sonachStskeeps: Can I execute 'qmake' in Mer SDK's chroot?09:24
Stskeepssonach: think so09:24
E-Pyou can09:25
Stskeepsthere's also https://gitorious.org/project-grande/qml-launcher/trees/master09:25
sonachStskeeps: E-P: thank you. I will try:)09:25
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Stskeepsmdfe_: 4.8.1 + calligra fix on the road to release :)09:34
mdfe_yeeahhaa ;)09:35
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sledgesQmlComponentExtrasGallery @imx53 overnight soak-test: 7K mem leaked (only)09:49
Stskeepsnot bad09:50
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alteregoThinking of adding an rss feed aggregator to the mer wiki to build a mer based planet page. Thoughts?10:14
Stskeepsperhaps10:16
alteregoJust thinking we could do with a reflection of the current state of the community.10:18
alteregoAnd give people a bit of a platform for being more aware of the community.10:19
Stskeepsoh, bugzilla plugin would probably be a start10:19
Stskeepsdid we migrate the wiki yet?10:20
alteregoAh yes, I'll look in to the bugzilla plugin. I should catch up with lbt and do the migration.10:20
Stskeepsalso check bugzilla and close tasks assigned to you and done10:21
alterego:)10:22
Stskeepsmer tshirt, check, tizen tshirt, check, maemo/mozilla tshirt, check10:25
Stskeepsnow noone can accuse me of not being diversified..10:25
E-Pheh10:26
jussiStskeeps: where is your windows tshirt? :P10:26
* jussi runs10:26
Stskeepsjussi: i could wear a lumia ..10:26
Stskeeps:P10:26
jussi*snigger*10:26
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alteregoI was thinking of getting some mer t-shirts printed.10:27
Stskeepslbt still has a bunch in store10:28
alteregoI've got a friend that can print them cheap cheap :)10:29
alteregoMaybe I'll be a bit different and get a jumper :)10:29
alteregoOr a Mer Jacket10:29
w00tStskeeps: wear them all at once10:30
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Stskeepsw00t: i vote we make a game of wearing the most amount of dead mobile platform tshirts at once10:31
Stskeepsof course this will be murder in 22 C..10:31
w00toh good god, is it that hot?10:31
Stskeepssaturday: 22 C10:31
Stskeepsmonday: 25 C10:31
w00taieee10:31
w00t25 is my melting point10:31
TermanaYou wussy Europeans. Come down to 'stralia, we can give you a roaring hot time10:32
Stskeepsw00t -is- australian10:32
Stskeeps:P10:32
w00ti moved because i kept burning to death10:32
TermanaWell... whatever... :p10:32
w00t(ok, slight exaggeration, but i really don't tolerate heat well)10:32
alteregoheh10:35
Termanaw00t, what would actually be nice is if it wasn't 30 C one day, 10 C the next. Now I know why they make those pants with the zip off bottom leg parts.10:36
jonwilThe secret to not burning up in the Australian sun is to live in a house with air conditioning :)10:36
Tm_Tjussi: you and your hilights (:10:37
alteregoHeh10:40
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jussiTm_T: *snigger* :P : P10:41
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Tm_Tjussi: yup, my bad, but still noticed it's almost always you10:46
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E-PStskeeps: AB meeting today?11:00
Stskeepsoh, yes11:01
* Stskeeps is a bit off his mind today :)11:01
StskeepsAdvisory board meeting in #mer-meeting NOW11:01
E-Pit's Friday, it is ok11:01
Stskeepsi actually wonder if we have quorom11:02
Stskeepsmdfe_: you representing in #mer-meeting ?11:03
alteregoSweet, my printer is "on track" to be shipped today! :D11:05
alteregoWell, printer kit11:05
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mdfe_Stskeeps: Yes I will do it11:20
Stskeepsmdfe_: ah, we cancelled already11:20
Stskeepsno worries, we were too few anyway11:20
mdfe_sorry :(11:20
Stskeepspostponed 14 days, which is OK too - i'm a little unhealthy today as well11:21
mdfe_bless you11:21
iekkuStskeeps, oh, get well soon!11:21
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byakoStskeeps: do I get it right that you're an Xorg pro || heavily familiar and can be bugged with quest ?11:52
Stskeepsbyako: i wouldn't call myself a pro11:52
Stskeepsi have more of a system wide view, not terribly deep at times11:52
byakoStskeeps: that's normal11:52
byako:)11:52
Stskeepsie, i can't recite the X11 protocol at heart11:52
Stskeeps:P11:52
byakook, so you might know what is responsible for cursor redrawind ? I have all screen in cursors because the screen is redrawn only when some app does thisi11:53
byakois there a chance to make X server constantly redraw screen on mouse movement or so11:54
Stskeepsit depends, there is hardware cursor and software cursor11:54
Stskeepson a mobile device you really don't want to have a cursor at all, for FPS reasons11:54
byakoStskeeps: I don't have a choice, LCD is all I have. no touch-devices11:54
byakoSo I would rather see low fps rate on mouse movement11:55
Stskeeps:nod:11:55
Stskeepsi'm not sure how mali and cursor would work together, sorry11:55
byakoif I'll need more, I will just leave mouse in peace11:55
byakoStskeeps: that's second problem, just give me the vector to dig - so I need a hw cursor ?11:56
Stskeepspossibly. or a software cursor.11:56
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byakoStskeeps: ok, thank you one more time11:56
byakothere was one funny flash-card, something like one million thank you, I should send it to you some day11:57
Stskeepsbyako: if you don't mind me asking, are you doing this for work or fun? (it doesn't matter in practice to me, just curious - my rule is that if people, companies, etc ask in #mer, everybody learns from answers being given here)11:57
byakoStskeeps: 50\50, it's not related to work direcly anyhow, I just got a plenty of free time and I got this board. If I will manage to make something fine with it - ok, if no - ok, it's just a nice experience for me11:59
Stskeepsalright :)12:00
Stskeepsnow, back to laying on the sofa and watching national geographic..12:00
byakothat's nice :) get well12:00
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* Stskeeps submits qtdeclarative to mer13:03
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byakodoes anyone has any problems with uxlaunch except me? or even this way: enyone uses mer without touch screen ?13:31
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Stskeepsbyako: uxlaunch just starts Xorg as user and runs the x session as stated in /usr/share/xsessions/default.desktop , and then everything in /etc/xdg/autostart/13:33
Stskeepsif the default.desktop process dies, it takes xorg down and restarts13:33
Stskeepsit might start the X with xopts=-nocursor, too13:34
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byakoStskeeps: yes, I know, but there's something in the way it starts.. I didn't took a look into the code yet, but I figured out that all mthemedeamons, meegotouchhomes etc. work just fine when X started manually13:40
byakoStskeeps: but when uxlaunch is triggered - not for long13:40
byakoand if manually trying to tun it from root - should it stay alive like daemon ?13:40
byakoI though it should13:41
byakobut it just exits after trying to access backlight class in sysfs13:41
Stskeepsbyako: can you try to set user=root in /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch ?13:42
byakoem, sure, and then look for what? it doesn't even leave a log file in /var/log/uxlaunch.log13:43
Stskeeps $HOME/ should have one13:44
byakoHe-he, much much better, started everything from the first attempt. You know woo-doo ?13:46
byakoStskeeps: for some reason this helped13:46
Stskeepswhich, user=root?13:46
byakoyes13:46
Stskeepsokay, as a start.. rpm -qa | grep xorg-x11-server13:47
byakoStskeeps: and as a result I have lots of home dirs in/root13:47
Stskeepsnaturally13:47
Stskeepsuser=root isn't exactly a good thing :)13:47
byakoStskeeps: xorg-x11-server-1.10.1-1.35.Mer.armv7l13:48
bigbluehatStskeeps: you've likely already seen this...but if not: http://www.osnews.com/story/25763/Google_unveils_Project_Glass13:48
Stskeepsbigbluehat: yeah, the reaction videos are hillarious13:48
Stskeepsbigbluehat: there's more to that output13:48
Stskeepserrr13:48
Stskeepsbyako:13:48
bigbluehatreaction videos?13:48
bigbluehatI'll have to look for those :)13:48
bigbluehatseems the ideas time is nearly here in any case13:49
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Stskeepsbigbluehat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIClyFCgzs13:50
Stskeepsbigbluehat: i don't presume you're in SF area are you?13:51
bigbluehatlove it!13:52
bigbluehatno. why?13:52
bigbluehatyou?13:52
Stskeepstizen conference, flying there tomorrow and returning thursday13:52
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bigbluehatah, nice!13:54
bigbluehatif you swing by the East Coast, on your way back, feel free to stop in and say "hey" :)13:54
Stskeepshehe, i will fly sfo-detroit-amsterdam-warsaw on way back13:55
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byakoStskeeps: you're in Warsaw ?13:55
Stskeepsbyako: yeah, been living here in .pl for 2.5 years13:55
byakooriginally from ?13:55
bigbluehatyeah, detroit's not quite the east coast.13:55
Stskeepsbyako: .dk13:56
bigbluehatbut wave anyhow :)13:56
byakoStskeeps: we're almosted switched places, I'm from Ukraine, but live ~2 years in Fin13:56
byakoquite near13:56
byakoStskeeps: so, back to business: user=nemo kills uxlaunch. and no logs anywhere13:57
Stskeepsbyako: right, so Xorg can't startup sanely likely13:57
Stskeepsbyako: rpm -qa | grep xorg-x11-server should give more than one line's output13:57
byakoI got -common & -Xorg-setuid also13:58
Stskeepsok13:58
Stskeepsthat part is fine then .. /usr/bin/Xorg is +s right?13:58
byakoyes it is13:59
* Stskeeps ponders idly13:59
Stskeepswell, my bet is on that hwmem thing we discovered13:59
byakouxlaunc starts from root user, right ?13:59
Stskeepsyes14:00
byakowith -v it shows some errors, i'll show you14:00
Stskeepshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/linaro-android/+bug/88020914:00
byakougg... it should have been nemo, not mer14:01
byakouser is wrong14:01
Stskeepswhat mode does /dev/hwmem have?14:01
byakoI think it was 40014:01
Stskeepshttp://review.android.git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=device/linaro/snowball.git;a=commitdiff;h=efa0e186cdd3bb34b436bd37e0dee5d9270ab0a1 , search for /dev/hwmem14:02
Stskeepslooks like we need a udev rule14:02
Stskeepsto set permissions right14:02
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byakoStskeeps: and still: http://pastebin.com/B2ACJHm714:03
Stskeepshmm14:03
byakoStskeeps: hwmem: crw-------14:03
byakoStskeeps: what for? to start Xorg from user ?14:04
byakoit's normally started from shell without any problems14:04
Stskeepswell, perhaps we're dealing with two issues here14:04
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byakowoah, 66614:04
Stskeepsone is that 1) the compositor will fail to startup due to broken EGL and hence halt uxlaunch14:04
Stskeepsbecause of /dev/hwmem, /dev/mali etc having bad permissions14:05
byakoStskeeps: stop here14:05
Stskeeps2) that uxlaunch has some problem in it's startup phase14:05
byako1) - why doesn't it fail when I start all from user in a shell ?14:05
Stskeepsdo you start mcompositor, too?14:05
byakoyes14:06
Stskeepsawkward14:06
byakoI can paste log14:06
byakoall those services in the background14:06
Stskeepswell, anyway, get those permissions set on startup - i sadly have to prep for going to resturant with my wife14:06
Stskeepsas i'm leaving in the early morning14:07
byakonp :) have a nice weekend14:07
byakothanks once more14:07
Stskeepsi'll be back in this timezone friday-saturday14:08
byakoI hope i'll finish with this by that time14:08
Stskeepsstuff works as root, so that's a good start14:08
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Stskeepsmoo shmerl16:41
shmerlHi!16:41
Stskeepshow is it going?16:41
shmerlGood, thanks. Updating my Mer SDK :)16:41
Stskeepshehe, cool16:41
shmerlI had a brief question. Why in general 2.x kernel / glibc etc. are used, while the most up to date one is 3.x?16:42
shmerlI'm not so familiar with what common Hardware practices are, so I'm just curious :)16:43
Stskeepshehe, now, that's because embedded field and reference boards are typically quite far behind16:43
Stskeepswe're standardizing on 2.6.32 as -userland- kernel interface, but people can use 3.x if they want16:43
Stskeepsglibc is eglibc 2.15 now, so pretty up to date16:43
shmerlYeah, that's what I thought. You mean most drivers are developed for older kernels?16:43
Stskeepswell, more like that most boards have 'most functioning' at that kernel level16:44
Stskeepsand our userland really doesn't need higher16:45
shmerlI see.16:45
Stskeepsnothing stops anyone from rolling their own Mer with a more up to date kernel interface16:45
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shmerlBut Wayland probably will need higher one in the future.16:45
shmerlThough I don't see any Wayland based devices so far coming soon.16:45
Stskeepswayland doesn't really need one, it's more on implementation basis16:46
Stskeepsie, in mesa16:46
Stskeepsi know of GBM, KMS etc, but typically if the ioctl is possible to use, well, they'll use it in userland16:47
shmerlDidn't Tizen plan to use Wayland at some point?16:47
Stskeepsand there's already wayland devices on the market, FWIWW16:47
Stskeepssure, and they do, for IVI16:47
shmerlAh, good. But not for handsets?16:47
Stskeepsthere it's a little more complex..16:47
Stskeepshttp://www.free.fr/adsl/freebox-revolution.html - uses wayland, for example16:48
Stskeepson intelCE16:48
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shmerlInteresting16:48
Stskeepshttp://qt-project.org/videos/watch/qt-and-qt-quick-on-the-freebox-player-set-top-box specifically16:48
shmerlOh, by the way. Did Plasma Active folks voice any interest in joining efforts with Nemo for handset design?16:50
shmerlSo far they were mostly focused on tablets.16:50
Stskeepsi don't think it really came up, they've had their own work to be done16:50
Stskeepsfrankly, it's my belief, that given a frontend designer who knows qml and backend developer, you can do a full featurephone handset UI in 14 days16:50
shmerlDoes anyone really work on design for Nemo (I mean like professional designers) or it's mostly just code improvements now?16:51
Stskeepswe have had some, but right now we're focusing on core development16:51
Stskeepsthe project is entirely open for people to participate in, releases rolling16:51
shmerlI found someone who is interested in working for an open source project (a designer). Do you think I can connect them with Nemo team?16:51
Stskeepsbut we did take a bit of a cut when nokia financing went out16:52
Stskeepsand maemo.org was too busy in civil wars to see in time that nemo was the right direction :P16:52
shmerlMay be as volunteering so it can help.16:52
shmerlYeah, IMO it's too cluttered as of now.16:52
Stskeepswe could have done a lot more on hw adaptation side, than spend time on UI16:52
Stskeepswhich would have ensured the future for these devices16:52
shmerlToo many Harmattan discussions.16:52
Stskeepsbut so it goes.. at least out of meego we got mer16:53
Stskeepsand surprisingily a lot of knowledge/know-how of how to make a phone16:53
Stskeepswhich wasn't available in the open before16:53
shmerlInteresting.16:53
shmerlDid you try to find hw partners for handset projects?16:54
Stskeepsnot personally, no16:54
Stskeepsi'm a core/machine room guy16:54
shmerlBecause I don't really understand why they wouldn't be interested.16:54
Stskeepsdid you ever see Lipstick and understand the power of that thing?16:54
shmerlOn the other hand I have no idea how hw vendors operate :)16:54
shmerlNo.16:55
Stskeepssec16:55
Stskeepsyou've seen the N9, right16:55
shmerlYes.16:55
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Stskeepshow much code and effort in man months do you think went into the homescreen alone (not compositor)?16:55
shmerlI'd give it a few months (rough draft)16:56
Stskeepsjust an estimate16:56
shmerlMay be 2-3.16:56
shmerlWith polishing - more.16:56
Stskeepsnow look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM and then at http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qml/16:56
shmerlBut I don't count how long the ideas were brewing.16:56
Stskeepsthe bar has been lowered significantly in how much effort it actually takes to make a mobile UI16:57
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shmerlHeh, that's not a lot of code :)16:58
StskeepsMer's just prepping for an entirely new class of devices :)16:59
shmerlThe main thing there is not to write a code, but to polish the concept.16:59
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Stskeepssure16:59
shmerlHard to say how long Harmattan designers did that.16:59
Stskeepsbut code really bogs down things too :)16:59
shmerlSkillman is a great guy.16:59
Stskeepsand democratising(sp) device making16:59
shmerlSure16:59
Stskeepswhere i think mer will have most merit is in a world like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ3817:00
Stskeepswhich is why i think we still have some time to run on :)17:00
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shmerlCool17:01
shmerlThough rather predictable.17:01
shmerlI think it'll move to something more interesting. Like in the Avatar virtual screens in the air :)17:02
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyfPnxP_UCI is newer and better, though17:02
shmerlGoogle made some demo about glasses.17:03
shmerlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIzNmVMOYm017:04
Stskeepsyeah, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIClyFCgzs too ;)17:05
shmerlHehe, yeah.17:05
shmerlAdblock needed.17:06
shmerlSo do you think Nemo will be interested in more designers?17:07
Stskeepsi'd really like people to try out to do something entirely new, too, honestly17:08
Stskeepsand play with what mer and qml and lipstick etc can do17:08
shmerlSure. I don't mean you need to always stick to the same concept.17:09
Stskeepsas such, the n9 stack is already 'behind', technology (MTF) invented in 2006-200717:09
shmerlBut so far I didn't see any community driven handset effort besides Nemo.17:09
Stskeepserr..17:09
Stskeepsno, 200917:09
shmerlI don't appreciate that Tizen has the same pitfalls as Meego had.17:09
Stskeepshttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Roadmap17:09
shmerlI.e. closed development, not transparency and etc.17:09
Stskeepsyeah..17:09
Stskeepsi had enough, though i see collaboration opportunities between mer and tizen17:10
Stskeepsgoing to tizen conference tomorrow17:10
Stskeepsthey sponsored a small bunch of us to go17:10
shmerlNice. Hopefully the big benefit will be that they can push open devices to the market.17:10
shmerlAnd work with vendors to produce drivers.17:10
Stskeepsit should almost be trivial to put tizen on top of mer, honestly17:10
Stskeepstizen ivi has so much in common with mer it's not funny17:11
shmerlYeah, did you propose that?17:11
Stskeepswe'll see17:11
shmerlCorp. ideas though don't like that.17:11
Stskeepsi can understand their reasons though17:11
shmerlSince they aren't in control.17:11
Stskeepsthat's why i prefer SME's for Mer17:11
Stskeepseach has a benefit and interest in contributing for a common good base17:12
Stskeeps== less cost17:12
shmerlFor example when Sun made OpenSolaris they never release the control.17:12
shmerlUntil Oracle killed it, and community made illumos.17:12
Stskeepssee my talk at https://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf17:12
shmerlAh. Did they make any videos of that?17:13
Stskeepssadly no, they screwed up something17:13
Stskeepsand the slides are better tbh17:13
shmerlOK17:13
shmerlNice, I'll repost the link to my Diaspora pod.17:14
shmerlWhom should the designers contact if they want to help Nemo?17:16
shmerlOr just to pop here on the IRC?17:16
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vgrade2Stskeeps, any idea what updated component in Mer is causing this build failure? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=meego-ux-sharing&project=home%3Avgrade%3Aivi17:26
vgrade2in the Meego buld log there are warning about .pc files not being found but only warnings. Mer build halts17:28
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vgrade2ah, http://blog.rburchell.com/2011/01/qt-users-of-qmake-rejoice.html17:45
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Stskeepsvgrade2: figured it out?18:01
vgrade2Stskeeps, yes the MeeGo package built due to qmake continiing , new qmake stops on that type of error18:09
vgrade2woot blog was a direct hit for this one18:10
vgrade2alhough I'm not rejoicing :)18:10
Stskeepsah, clever18:11
vgrade2now to figure out how to workaround the new qmake18:13
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vgrade2ivi-ux was going well up to that point , https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=home%3Avgrade%3Aivi18:16
Stskeepsyou're probably just missing a BuildRequires: pkgconfig()18:17
Stskeepsvgrade2: if you get bored, it seems like 'gbs' tool can be used to nicely package up tizen sw18:18
Stskeepsie, for .spec18:18
vgrade2I see pkgconfig in the build setup18:18
Stskeepsyes, but for libsomethingsharing?18:18
vgrade2ok, thanks18:19
vgrade2will check out gbs if I get time18:20
vgrade2I start onsite next Tuesday18:20
Stskeepsoh, congrats18:21
vgrade2I'll miss the comute from the bed to the office at home18:23
Stskeepsfrankly, working from home for longer periods of time makes you go crazy18:23
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Stskeepsjust look at me ;)18:23
Stskeepsevenin phaeron :)18:26
phaeronevining18:27
phaeron:D18:27
* phaeron goes back to picking at OBS18:27
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shmerlDid anyone try to use sb2 with Vivaldi image lately?18:28
shmerlI get an error when trying to update sdk tools.18:28
shmerlsb2 -m sdk-install -R zypper refresh18:29
Stskeepswhat error?18:29
shmerlsb2 -m sdk-install -R zypper refresh18:29
shmerl (ERROR)        [sb2d][11531]   Lua interpreter PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (...120504-182629.C11478/lua_scripts/init_modeconfig.lua:53: No exec policy selection table in /tmp/sb2-<user>-20120504-182629.C11478/share/scratchbox2/modes/sdk-install/config.lua)$18:29
shmerlsb2d: Lua interpreter PANIC: unprotected error in call to Lua API (...120504-182629.C11478/lua_scripts/init_modeconfig.lua:53: No exec policy selection table in /tmp/sb2-<user>-20120504-182629.C11478/share/scratchbox2/modes/sdk-install/config.lua)18:29
shmerl(Am I doing it right? That's the way to update it?)18:29
Stskeepswell, not the right way to update the sdk18:30
Stskeepsin general18:30
Stskeepsfor a given target, yesss..18:30
shmerlI updated the root isntallation, yes.18:30
Stskeepscan you file a bug about that and output of rpm -qa | grep scratchbox218:30
shmerlJust regular zypper ref etc.18:30
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shmerlSure18:30
Stskeepsand cc me carsten.munk@gmail.com on it18:31
Stskeepsi think i know what the problem is18:31
shmerlIt's scratchbox2-2.3.52-1.1.i48618:31
shmerlI'll file a bug.18:31
Stskeepshappen to know what sb2 version you had before?18:31
shmerlNo, I didn't check :)18:31
Stskeepsk18:31
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shmerlUpdated the wiki for target setup: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK_and_SB2#Vivaldi18:32
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shmerlShould I file it under SB2 and OBS integration section?18:40
shmerlIt's in "Mer Crosshelpers"18:41
shmerlOh, found it.18:41
shmerlMer Integration Tools18:41
Stskeepsmm18:41
Stskeepswe usually catch it in triage else18:42
Stskeepsso grouping is less important to get right at first18:42
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shmerlhttps://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32718:46
Stskeepsta18:46
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shmerlno problem18:48
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Stskeepsthe cause is likely that our sdk modes haven't been upgraded to the new sb2 ruleset api18:48
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