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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: out of curiousity, how did you branch? | 05:14 |
| *** meteor is now known as mr | 05:14 | |
| Alison_Chaiken | Stskeeps, I added the Mer_Extras_armv7l repo and gave it a new target name. | 05:15 |
| Alison_Chaiken | So I think that branched it? | 05:15 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | I am, ahem, learning to use OBS still. | 05:16 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: yeah, just wondered how the 'patchinfo' came about :) | 05:16 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html might be of use - FreeMind .mm is on OBS.mm | 05:17 |
| Stskeeps | that's an export of most of my obs knowledge | 05:17 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Stskeeps, I assumed that my commit from my localhost of the new kernel config file created the patch, but maybe not. | 05:17 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Will look, thanks. | 05:17 |
| Alison_Chaiken | In my past OBS attempts, I spent a whole day reading docs and working on tutorial and then got pulled off on another project. | 05:18 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 05:18 |
| Alison_Chaiken | This time I decided on opposite approach! | 05:18 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Better to go in and break stuff first. Helps figure out which part of docs are pertinent. | 05:18 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Nice diagram. Is that graphviz or dia? | 05:19 |
| Stskeeps | flash, generated by freemind mindmap tool | 05:20 |
| Stskeeps | could also have been svg | 05:20 |
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| Stskeeps | click the circles with small circles on the side to expand terms, a lot of gold hidden :) | 05:20 |
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| rrix | Is there any way to build RPMs for the device without COBS access? | 05:21 |
| Stskeeps | rrix: that's what we're brewing on with sb2 part of platform sdk | 05:22 |
| Stskeeps | hello antarn :) | 05:22 |
| Stskeeps | rrix: you can also do --preload and then later --offline for specific packages | 05:22 |
| antarn | Hi Stskeeps | 05:22 |
| *** zuh_ is now known as zuh | 05:22 | |
| Stskeeps | antarn: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ? | 05:22 |
| antarn | Stskeeps: Just wanted to see what's up whit this project. | 05:23 |
| Stskeeps | antarn: alright :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask, else feel free to just hang out | 05:23 |
| rrix | Stskeeps: I suppose Ill just wait for lbt or X-Fade to wake up ;) | 05:23 |
| Stskeeps | rrix: yeah, probably best | 05:23 |
| antarn | Stskeeps: thanks | 05:23 |
| * rrix has ts_srv working, but it's still not kicking on, need to verify my service is actually starting and whatnot | 05:24 | |
| rrix | And if, when I get COBS access, I can reenable multitouch readout from the driver, since it wouldn't build without certain packages locally | 05:24 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: i think we're good for trying out 0.3 today | 05:27 |
| Stskeeps | and see if images build | 05:27 |
| Stskeeps | if you're not travelling, that is | 05:27 |
| E-P | morning | 05:33 |
| Stskeeps | morn E-P | 05:33 |
| Stskeeps | E-P: just some input to testing process, working on placing source packages into architecture, http://pastie.org/3837454 | 05:40 |
| Stskeeps | /Build/* is to be mostly ignored as it isn't part of run-time architecture | 05:40 |
| Stskeeps | the rule is that if the content in architectual domain is the only user of a package, the package gets into that architectual domain | 05:41 |
| E-P | Stskeeps: that is good info when creating and mapping tests | 05:41 |
| Stskeeps | the idea is that the architecture will mostly self-document, so you can pull up dependency graphs for any image | 05:42 |
| Stskeeps | and this info being part of the packages themselves | 05:42 |
| E-P | I wrote one draft about the mapping, it is a bit different what we talked about | 05:44 |
| E-P | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Talk:Quality/Test_processes | 05:44 |
| E-P | is is based on similar syntax what we used in internal automation | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | and graphics, too :) | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: and it being YAML helps | 05:45 |
| E-P | I like to draw graphics, usually they explain more than the words :) | 05:45 |
| Stskeeps | easy to script with | 05:45 |
| E-P | basically that kind of configuration would create test plans for all supported devices in the automation | 05:47 |
| Stskeeps | looks cool | 05:48 |
| Stskeeps | would be interesting to see it from inverted perspective, ie, where we give a template and vendors can inherit from those for their own device tests | 05:48 |
| E-P | yep | 05:50 |
| Kaadlajk | testplanner in that picture != testplanner UI kyösti made? | 05:51 |
| E-P | Kaadlajk: yes, not the same testplanner | 05:51 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps a better name would be test execution planner ish? | 05:51 |
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| E-P | true, I will change it | 05:52 |
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| dm8tbr | good moaning from Warsaw | 06:00 |
| Stskeeps | morn dm8tbr, horrible weather here today | 06:00 |
| dm8tbr | indeed | 06:00 |
| dm8tbr | I waiteted inside the outfield shuttle for the gangway to clear before speeding into the aircraft ;) | 06:01 |
| dm8tbr | on the flight from POZ they said something about good weather but slight rain. liars... | 06:01 |
| dm8tbr | ah, last pax got shuttled in. time to close up | 06:02 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: well I'm at Tampere today but I can probably build images for test though | 06:03 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 06:03 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: cya | 06:03 |
| dm8tbr | ttfn | 06:03 |
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| Stskeeps | \o/ phaeron | 07:07 |
| phaeron | hey :) | 07:08 |
| Stskeeps | glad to see you're fine :) | 07:08 |
| android | Good mornong all | 07:08 |
| phaeron | Back in .fi | 07:08 |
| Stskeeps | good morning android | 07:08 |
| android | oh cripes, Im still android | 07:08 |
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| phaeron | Stskeeps: thanks | 07:08 |
| Stskeeps | jussi: i was thinking you'd get a massive amounts of bad highlights :) | 07:08 |
| jussi | Stskeeps: I do :P | 07:09 |
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| Stskeeps | phaeron: can we schedule a 20 min Q&A for copy-project at the release meeting tomorrow? (i don't want to burden you on the first day you're back) | 07:17 |
| phaeron | Ahh yeah sure. | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 07:18 |
| * phaeron picks up old notes | 07:18 | |
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| Stskeeps | good morning sonach | 07:44 |
| sonach | morning, Stskeeps | 07:44 |
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| Stskeeps | morn Attie | 07:53 |
| Attie | morning | 07:54 |
| Attie | good weekend? | 07:54 |
| Stskeeps | was okay, didn't get to hack terribly much | 07:54 |
| Attie | heh, me either | 07:54 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: We have disscussed nfs,ping,etc. on Mer, these commands can not run directly. But if I add "busybox" before this commands, they all works well:) | 07:56 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: interesting | 07:57 |
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| Attie | wrong path / missing symlinks? | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | Attie: /sbin/ping saying 'permission denied' | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | which is kinda bizarre | 07:57 |
| Attie | odd | 07:57 |
| Attie | is that a symlink to bb? | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | nop | 07:57 |
| Attie | oh, what is it? | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: i presume your kernel/setup doesn't have anything with POSIX capabilities | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | Attie: standard net-tools(i think) | 07:58 |
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| Attie | righto | 07:58 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: I don't quite sure about this, | 07:58 |
| Attie | i assume you've checked the permissions and that its compiled for the correct arch? | 07:58 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: well, if you don't think you're using it then you're probably not :) | 07:59 |
| Attie | and correct libs | 07:59 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: the kernel package was copied from hisilicon, so we don't pay much attention to all of its options, | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i wonder too | 08:03 |
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| lbt | morning all | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | morn lbt | 08:04 |
| lbt | rrix: done :) | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: did you have any custom generate-obs-package-from-git scripts? | 08:04 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: yes | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | could i have them? needed for one of my week's tasks | 08:06 |
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| lbt | based on phaeron's script but still quite personal - will pastie | 08:06 |
| lbt | http://pastie.org/3837868 | 08:07 |
| lbt | so it just gets an obs project ready for an osc ar/ci | 08:08 |
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| Stskeeps | where did we have instructions on how to set up a 'mer' obs? | 08:09 |
| lbt | mmm | 08:09 |
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| lbt | https://github.com/lbt/obs-setup combined with wiki page | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | what wiki page, specifically | 08:10 |
| lbt | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 08:10 |
| lbt | that script should fully replace the steps - it's supposed to be 'readable' | 08:11 |
| sonach | lbt: When I do "./mer-sdk-chroot umount", it reports: There appears to be 1 chroot(s) still using this SDK. But in fact no one is using it. what's the problem? | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: readable like perl, or readable like a book.. | 08:11 |
| Termana | lol | 08:12 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: they're different? | 08:12 |
| * Stskeeps nods | 08:12 | |
| lbt | sonach: what that does is write something like a pid file | 08:12 |
| lbt | if you shutdown without a umount it doesn't clean up | 08:12 |
| lbt | it would be sensible to add a check to say "this pid no longer exists" ... patches welcome :) | 08:13 |
| lbt | -> coffee ...bbiab | 08:13 |
| sonach | lbt: Is there any way to solve this problem? | 08:13 |
| sonach | lbt: If I don't want to restart the server. | 08:14 |
| byako | Morning. Any ideas why I can't see files of an installed package during the build on COBS ? | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | byako: does these files happen to be in /usr/src > | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 08:15 |
| byako | yep | 08:15 |
| byako | did I miss the FAQ section ? | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | byako: no, you're just good at hitting known bugs that's getting fixed in the release we're putting out atm (in last prerelease phase) :) | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 08:16 |
| byako | :) yes, normally it's about me :) I like finding bugs.. | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | byako: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235 | 08:17 |
| byako | Stskeeps: thanks | 08:17 |
| rrix | lbt: <3 | 08:17 |
| E-P | sonach: you can remove the pid file under the .active_chroots folder | 08:17 |
| E-P | the .active_chroots folder is in the root of the SDK chroot | 08:18 |
| byako | ha man, no workaround ? only local build with manual patching? Oh, how i _love_ this | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | byako: the workaround is adding Core-next in COBS | 08:19 |
| rrix | lbt: I take it login is with the same details as my meego.com? | 08:19 |
| byako | Stskeeps: you mean substituting the core-fake with core-next andn rebuilding all packages ? | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | byako: Mer:fake:Core -> Mer:fake:Core-next | 08:20 |
| byako | Stskeeps: will try. | 08:20 |
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| lbt | sonach: have a look in the $sdkroot/.active_chroots/ directory | 08:22 |
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| lbt | files matching pids that don't exist can be removed | 08:22 |
| lbt | E-P: thanks - missed that :) | 08:23 |
| lbt | rrix: yes, login is the same | 08:23 |
| rrix | killer :) | 08:23 |
| rrix | instead of going to bed, I shall upload this pacakage | 08:23 |
| lbt | excellent idea | 08:23 |
| lbt | watching uploading packages beats counting sheep anytime | 08:24 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: have we modified the packaging of obs-server itself, or is it == upstream, plus our script's changes? | 08:33 |
| lbt | it's modified lightly | 08:34 |
| lbt | iirc it's just filename type things | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 08:34 |
| lbt | mmm | 08:36 |
| lbt | looks like they've drifted | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | i'll start work to validate b1-systems' cross work with new obs patches, so | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | and dump sb2 stuff on top | 08:37 |
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| lbt | *nod* .... taking denise to train station ... bbi ~30m | 08:37 |
| timoph | Stskeeps: testrunner-ui with the ability to set the used privete ssh key currently building in my obs home project | 08:40 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: cool | 08:40 |
| timoph | (not tested yet) | 08:40 |
| E-P | nice | 08:40 |
| timoph | I'll push the changes back to upstream's master after that is verified to work | 08:41 |
| timoph | at least it compiled :) | 08:41 |
| timoph | it doesn't currently check if the provided file actually exists | 08:43 |
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| timoph | planning to add things like that later | 08:44 |
| sonach | lbt: nothing under .active_chroots, | 08:46 |
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| timoph | also I'm planning to start doing general usabity improvements to it after the devaamo summit things calm down | 08:46 |
| E-P | timoph: did you notice my merge request to Mer gerrit? | 08:46 |
| sonach | lbt: there is a file called 9716 | 08:47 |
| sonach | lbt: delete this file? | 08:47 |
| timoph | E-P: seems like I didn't :) | 08:47 |
| E-P | sonach: does that process exist? | 08:47 |
| sonach | E-P: no, | 08:48 |
| E-P | timoph: I just added tr-lite and definition to mer git, just a sec | 08:48 |
| E-P | sonach: then you can remove the file | 08:48 |
| sonach | OK, | 08:48 |
| E-P | timoph: http://review.merproject.org/#change,534 and http://review.merproject.org/#change,535 | 08:48 |
| E-P | timoph: those are direct copies from the Mer:Tools:Testing | 08:49 |
| byako | Stskeeps: that's weird. In advanced repo add interface only Core-next projects are home ones. At the same time manually modifying meta config mer:fake:core -> mer:fake:core-next works pretty well | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | byako: yes, OBS cannot browse across remote links | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | byako: there's reasons for why Mer:fake is a remote link, which makes sense when you look at it from a product angle :) | 08:50 |
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| timoph | E-P: hmmh. not sure what I'm supposed to do with it :) | 08:52 |
| timoph | am I a reviewer for it= | 08:52 |
| timoph | ? | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | when lbt comes back we should ask the tactic for tools | 08:52 |
| E-P | ok | 08:52 |
| timoph | my gerrit-fu is not that strong | 08:53 |
| timoph | need to see how that thing actually works and is used | 08:53 |
| Termana | lbt, is mer-sdk-chroot run as root? I'm trying to change the script so that it will not just check if the process is still running but also if the process is still using a file within $sdkroot | 08:53 |
| Termana | (neither of which it does currently), also - is this: https://github.com/lbt/sdk-kickstarter-configs/blob/master/mer-sdk-chroot the current version? | 08:54 |
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| smoku | Termana: it isn't. it uses sudo inside when it needs root rights | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | we do mer-sdk-chroot as root though | 08:59 |
| Stskeeps | and switch to user inside | 08:59 |
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| lbt | Termana: Stskeeps: line 74 : exec sudo $0 "$@" it checks to see if it's invoked as a user and if so execs as root | 09:04 |
| lbt | if the "exec sudo" fails it warns | 09:04 |
| lbt | timoph: we haven't established any meaningful process for the tools space. The one we used in Nokia became ridiculously heavy | 09:06 |
| timoph | yeah | 09:07 |
| sonach | lbt: Have you ever configured NFS server of OpenSUSE 11.4? It doesn't work on my server, | 09:07 |
| timoph | overengineered paranoid processes are fun | 09:07 |
| lbt | One big issue is that we had fairly heavy and constant development of some code - and gerrit is great for sporadic patches but not to share 15 changes a day over 5 packages with known issues but which are needed for team collaboration | 09:07 |
| lbt | sonach: "doesn't work" ? | 09:08 |
| sonach | lbt: Yes. On another computer, I do 'mount' and no reponse, | 09:09 |
| lbt | anything in the server nfs logs? | 09:09 |
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| sonach | hmm, where is the log? | 09:09 |
| lbt | is nfs running? suse doesn't start services automatically like debian does | 09:10 |
| lbt | you need to chkconfig or systemctl enable them | 09:10 |
| lbt | suse .... probably syslog | 09:10 |
| lbt | timoph: I think we may need a more githubby (*sigh*) approach to collaboration for development - then relate gerrit merges to success in some OBS project staging area | 09:11 |
| lbt | so that request should probably be built in cobs (but we should still do the CI thing on it) and should have been discussed with the some Tools team maintainer | 09:13 |
| lbt | (which it probably was) | 09:13 |
| rrix | silly question, but what should I be using for CC in my makefiles and specs? | 09:13 |
| rrix | $CC rather | 09:13 |
| lbt | rrix: look at a similar package :) | 09:14 |
| * rrix was using arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc but that's not a thing, it seems | 09:14 | |
| rrix | pffft :) | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | don't touch CC, just use gcc | 09:14 |
| rrix | ok | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | we take care of making it a cross compile gcc transparently | 09:14 |
| rrix | cool | 09:14 |
| rrix | that was my question, I guess :) | 09:14 |
| timoph | lbt: I'm pretty much ok with any process as long as it is straightforward and not too complicated | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | we agreed that you'd probably do the actual tools development in some upstream? | 09:16 |
| * timoph wants to see contibuting being easy | 09:16 | |
| Stskeeps | or how was it | 09:16 |
| timoph | yeah | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | and mer was integration | 09:16 |
| timoph | that's what I'm doing | 09:16 |
| timoph | in practise my current workflow is: 1) fix it in upstream git 2) build it against Mer in my obs home | 09:17 |
| timoph | after that it gets blurry to me | 09:17 |
| * timoph phone. brb | 09:18 | |
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| lbt | timoph: so it depends on interactions with other packages | 09:18 |
| lbt | I don't know what exactly should be in Mer:Tools - 'current stable' (since we seem to use it as an install target) | 09:21 |
| lbt | so Mer:Tools:Testing would be approved trunk/RC | 09:21 |
| lbt | s/approved/qa'ed/ | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | should we have emacs in Mer:Tools? (discussion question) | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | at least :Tools should be more liberal than mer core | 09:22 |
| rrix | emacs isn't a tool :P | 09:22 |
| * rrix runs away | 09:22 | |
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| lbt | yes, it should - but I'm tempted to go for 'utils' - Tools is supported | 09:22 |
| lbt | and I'm not supporting emacs *g* | 09:23 |
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| lbt | carrying on - Mer:Tools:Testing:Devel would be pre-qa area for integration and build testing | 09:24 |
| lbt | it's OK to break builds in there but rude not to fix it PDQ | 09:25 |
| lbt | and if you're not sure, build in home/locally first | 09:25 |
| * lbt will try to obey his own rules there too | 09:25 | |
| lbt | installing from :Devel is asking for trouble | 09:25 |
| * lbt notes meego cobs is installed from :Devel right now | 09:26 | |
| E-P | lbt: if the package is built in the home, can it be SR directly to Mer:Tools:Testing? | 09:26 |
| lbt | good question | 09:26 |
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| lbt | I would like it if our process could do a BDC build and verify prior to accept | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: is the goal eventually do do :Tools with a mer CI like process? | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | just thinking ahead | 09:27 |
| lbt | yes | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 09:27 |
| E-P | lbt: BDC build? | 09:28 |
| lbt | build depencency check | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | DBC == dependency build check -- ie, integration testing, does this package break other packages | 09:29 |
| lbt | oh, DBC ... right :) | 09:29 |
| E-P | ok :) | 09:29 |
| lbt | E-P: I just call it a CI build | 09:29 |
| lbt | then people say "CI?" | 09:29 |
| sonach | lbt: I shutdown the firewall and restart nfs server, it works, thank you:) | 09:29 |
| E-P | lbt: I have also wonder your CI term time to time :) | 09:30 |
| rrix | Ugh, this build is confusing me. I have something using %{buildroot}, and it works on one line, but fails on the next | 09:30 |
| lbt | sonach: great :) suse fw is a monster if you're not familiar | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | rrix: build log = ? | 09:30 |
| rrix | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=ts-srv-tenderloin&project=home%3Arrix&repository=Mer_Core_armv7hl | 09:30 |
| lbt | E-P: continuous integration .... | 09:30 |
| rrix | idk if that's linkable | 09:30 |
| rrix | I can pastebin | 09:30 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | %{buildroot} | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | not ${buildroot} | 09:31 |
| rrix | derp | 09:31 |
| rrix | wow | 09:31 |
| * Stskeeps takes rrix's fedora badge away | 09:31 | |
| rrix | Okay, i'm going to bed :) | 09:31 |
| * lbt points and laughs :) | 09:31 | |
| rrix | Stskeeps: But I need that for, like, both of the packages I still maintain! | 09:31 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 09:31 |
| * rrix adds "update fedora stuff" to his todo list for tomorrow | 09:31 | |
| lbt | ooh ... release notes | 09:32 |
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| rrix | Since you're going to take my badge away :P | 09:32 |
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| rrix | Stskeeps: Can I just say how much nicer xen-based builds are than koji ones? | 09:32 |
| Stskeeps | we can do kvm too ;) | 09:32 |
| rrix | ooh :) | 09:33 |
| rrix | kvm ftw, of course ;) | 09:33 |
| lbt | not as much as you'd like | 09:33 |
| E-P | back to the tools development, after the package is ok in the OBS, then updating the src to mer git? | 09:35 |
| lbt | yes, I think so | 09:37 |
| E-P | timoph: I think if we need to make mer specified changes to qa-tools, we can have own branch for that in gitorious | 09:37 |
| timoph | E-P: yep or if it's totally mer specific like eat I'd have it all together in mer's git | 09:38 |
| lbt | E-P: I plan to make the mer-tools git a mirror of upstream with mer-specific patches applied to a release branch | 09:38 |
| E-P | timoph: yes | 09:38 |
| timoph | notice that I didn't move eat anywhere from the meego git | 09:38 |
| timoph | what kind of changes are actually needed? | 09:39 |
| timoph | naming? paths? | 09:39 |
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| lbt | timoph: me? none yet as far as I know | 09:39 |
| E-P | lbt: then we could use the same git for qa tools too? | 09:39 |
| E-P | if we have mer specified changes | 09:39 |
| lbt | it's more a matter of access and how we control commits to gerrit | 09:40 |
| timoph | I'd like to make the tools highly configurable during build time to mach a user's need | 09:40 |
| lbt | I honestly don't know if gerrit can handle it | 09:40 |
| timoph | things like test-definition that has links the bug tracker, etc. | 09:40 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/3838181 release notes... comments? | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | where's the changelog? | 09:41 |
| timoph | so in the best case there woudn't be a need to host/maintain a separate version of a tool | 09:41 |
| lbt | reload - was just doing the blurb - clog is same with rpm note | 09:41 |
| rrix | it's alliiiiiive :) | 09:41 |
| E-P | timoph: that is good approach | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: last (full) release | 09:42 |
| E-P | timoph: mainly if we have something, hopefully not | 09:42 |
| timoph | E-P: yeah. that would also encourage more collaboration with the upstream project | 09:42 |
| lbt | timoph: yep - those can go in packaging which I plan to keep as a discrete git tree inside mer git | 09:43 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: ok - anything else? | 09:43 |
| timoph | lbt: exactly | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: ok | 09:43 |
| timoph | requires a bit of work in the upstream but imo worth the effort | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | also, consider doing tarball releases.. | 09:44 |
| timoph | good point | 09:46 |
| E-P | how about tools like qa-reports, we have to changes the src a bit (naming, links etc) and its not a package in the OBS | 09:46 |
| timoph | true | 09:46 |
| lbt | *mumble* tarballs suck | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | template selection? | 09:46 |
| E-P | still having the changed version in the mer git or only in the mer-tools git? | 09:46 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: yeah, but keep in mind they also want to be used outside mer | 09:46 |
| lbt | https://github.com/lbt/mic/tags | 09:47 |
| lbt | remote git archive of a tag | 09:47 |
| lbt | just document it as "tarballs available like this..." | 09:48 |
| lbt | sha1 is as crypto-strong as the md5 on a tarball and if you want to archive it yourself for later verification then feel free | 09:48 |
| timoph | no need to decide that process now. although it is something to be considered after we get thins properly rolling forward | 09:49 |
| lbt | *g* | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: you've obviously never had gitorious refuse to give you a tarball | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:49 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: well, yeah.... | 09:49 |
| timoph | "This is just to let you know that your presentation proposal has been received. We will review all submissions and inform you within the next couple of weeks whether yours has been accepted." | 09:49 |
| timoph | about the Mer BoF in devaamo summit | 09:50 |
| timoph | fyi | 09:50 |
| lbt | dammit ... | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | that's normal | 09:50 |
| E-P | timoph: so for now we can make fixes to upstream, and then packaging them in the OBS and SR them to Mer:Tools:Testing and then to Mer:Tools? | 09:52 |
| lbt | we need a place to release them too - OBS isn't great at that | 09:53 |
| E-P | true | 09:53 |
| lbt | mainly for getting reliable copies of old versions for things like SDK | 09:54 |
| E-P | yes | 09:55 |
| timoph | E-P: btw, have you tried using jenkins/hudson with tr-lite? | 09:57 |
| E-P | timoph: no I haven't | 09:57 |
| timoph | just though it might be an interesting experiment | 09:58 |
| timoph | and worth documenting | 09:58 |
| * timoph makes a note to try that later | 10:00 | |
| E-P | yes if someone doesn't want to use OTS for execution | 10:00 |
| timoph | yeps | 10:00 |
| timoph | it's much simpler to take into use | 10:00 |
| timoph | if it only was implemented using someting else than java... | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | gerrit's java too :P | 10:01 |
| * timoph shivers | 10:01 | |
| rrix | y | 10:02 |
| rrix | You're not my terminal | 10:02 |
| timoph | :) | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: do you have weird issues with the opensuse themes & your script? | 10:08 |
| lbt | git submodule update ? | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: seems like there's bits and pieces missing for an 'empty' GITDIR | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | how are we supposed to get themes? :P | 10:10 |
| lbt | git submodule init ? | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | okay, but the script doesn't add a submodule anywhere | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | it seems | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | .. i would think | 10:11 |
| lbt | no, I probably already had that | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | how do i set that up then? | 10:12 |
| lbt | git submodule init : should work (in the open-build-service git repo | 10:12 |
| lbt | there should be a .gitmodule file | 10:13 |
| lbt | like I said, this is very much a personal file so far - just to be able to reproduce release steps from git | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 10:16 |
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| phaeron | I think the theme was split out to a separate git | 10:23 |
| phaeron | git://github.com/openSUSE/opensuse-themes.git | 10:23 |
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| Stskeeps | hello zeq :) | 10:24 |
| zeq | Hi | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | welcome - so what brings you here to #mer? :) | 10:25 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_Build the script there generates the themes tarball | 10:25 |
| zeq | I was wondering what was going on in these parts :) | 10:26 |
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| Stskeeps | zeq: sure :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask, else feel free to hang out and learn :) | 10:26 |
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| zeq | I've been hacking on mobile linux devices for a while | 10:27 |
| zeq | Zaurii, N900 etc | 10:27 |
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| lbt | zeq: ah - my zaurus is sitting right next to me on shelf | 10:29 |
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| zeq | I can see mine looking rather dusty not too far away | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: where did you hear about us, out of curiousity? | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: ta for the link | 10:29 |
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| zeq | Well, I hang around on #maemo occasionly, and I've been follow the Meego saga, hoping for another device to move onto eventually | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | alright :) | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | we're mostly doing core work here, but others are working on devices (hardware adaptations) and ui (plasma active, nemo, etc) | 10:31 |
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| zeq | I'm primarily a Gentoo dev | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: we feel we have something interesting for mobile cores here at least | 10:33 |
| zeq | but I do a little kernel hacking and core system work | 10:33 |
| lbt | *cough* core + systems :) | 10:34 |
| zeq | I dabble all over basically :) | 10:34 |
| lbt | always useful | 10:34 |
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| zeq | [OT] I'm currently getting Gentoo x32 up and running | 10:36 |
| zeq | I did the same for ARM EABI way back when | 10:37 |
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| zeq | might well have had the first full ARM EABI distribution | 10:39 |
| lbt | well, we handle a variety of architectures now | 10:44 |
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| lbt | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_architecture_naming | 10:45 |
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| zeq | wrt the architecture names, I've wondered why the ssse3 target was called "i586"? | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | because someone somewhere thought it was a very good idea, while it was a very very bad idea | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | i've considered to have it be 'atom' or likes instead, but nowadays, amd bulldozer can do ssse3 too | 10:50 |
| zeq | atom would have certainly made more sense | 10:50 |
| zeq | :) | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | it's inherited from meego this way, but adding new rpm archs isn't always trivial | 10:50 |
| zeq | I actually liked Meego Netbook because it was one of the few (only?) distributions Atom optimized | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | we have both i486 and 'atom' i586 | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | and use i486 for sdks and such | 10:52 |
| zeq | probably my Gentoo background making me feel uncomfortable without cpu optimizations ,) | 10:52 |
| zeq | ;) | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | hehe ;) | 10:52 |
| zeq | any plans for a x32 port? | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | possibly, but i'd like to seperate toolchain/core first | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | does x32 put floating point values in some of the proper registers when passing values? | 10:54 |
| zeq | As far as I know it is identical to amd64 except for pointer length and a few other data structures | 10:55 |
| zeq | the kernel support is mostly 32bit pointer versions of the amd64 syscalls | 10:56 |
| zeq | there's draft abi doc here: http://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/documents | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | ah, so x32 doesn't run anywhere but 64-bit? | 10:58 |
| lbt | no | 10:59 |
| zeq | well, it's 32bit :) | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | okay, let ask another way.. | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | on 64-bit mode cpus | 10:59 |
| zeq | but needs amd64 capable ahw | 10:59 |
| zeq | hw | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | would it run on an atom | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:59 |
| zeq | depends on the atom | 10:59 |
| zeq | D series | 10:59 |
| zeq | one moment | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so it might be relevant to tablets | 11:00 |
| Stskeeps | i think you just gave me a hint about what some people at intel are brewing on :) | 11:01 |
| zeq | D and N (except N2xx) series support it Z series don't | 11:01 |
| zeq | it's certain worth having on tablets | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:02 |
| zeq | x86 like code density with *much* higher performance | 11:03 |
| zeq | particularly with pointer heavy code | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | one of the things i'm brewing on is a different approach to mobile cores, where we essentially seperate into a 'toolchain' and a core, where core doesn't have to be self-hosted | 11:03 |
| lbt | iirc x32 is 32bit userspace with an API to allow the kernel to make use of 64bit instructions | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | but where we can do it with the ease of doing .spec files and work as we usually do | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | without having to really adjust our methods | 11:04 |
| lbt | timoph: ping | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | where our target starts out as bare | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | already had a proof of concept going | 11:04 |
| zeq | ibt: x32 is a native amd64 userspace, with full support for 64bit data registers and instructions, PC relative addressing etc, but only 32-bit address space per app | 11:06 |
| zeq | Stskeeps: I'm not sure I entirely follow, you mean separating the toolchain from the rest of the SDK? | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: think a target where you don't even have to compile bash for, while still being able to build software for cross target like you were building natively | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | it's a bit of a mix of cross gentoo and our existing mer stuff | 11:10 |
| zeq | okay, that sounds similar to how I brought ARM EABI up on Gentoo | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | i've done a proof of concept where i was able to build acl, busybox, attr and others on OBS with unmodified .spec files, for an ARM target | 11:12 |
| zeq | Of course once I had it running, I switched to using distcc | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | without having any tools in my target, ie, no binutils, gcc, bash, groff, whatever | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | just in my x86 toolset | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | and it could run arm binaries too | 11:13 |
| zeq | qemu? | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | without any ./configure cross magic | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, userland -- it was with a combination of scratchbox2 and some other things | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | but that's a future direction.. the idea was to be able to shrink core even deeper down | 11:14 |
| zeq | Sounds like a good approach | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | as we no longer needed self-hosting | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | and being able to point it at any kind of target | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps even bionic | 11:16 |
| zeq | The differentiating point of mer would seem to be deployment of an optimized core + ui as a functional unit. Much like with SoC. | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | and systems on top - we have really good QA tools development, systems (OBS, BOSS), image creators, etc.. | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/hostbased.png , http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/output.html etc | 11:18 |
| zeq | I'm a little surprised how relatively little interest there's been from system integrators, unless it's all very hush hush | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | there is actually a fair bit of interest | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | we need to get better at advertising ourselves though | 11:20 |
| zeq | more or less since Meego's demise? curious. | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | it's getting better, Vivaldi tablet news also helped a bit | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | Mer is a bit dry by itself, but for those who understand the power of it, like it | 11:21 |
| alterego | Maybe we should think about advertising :) | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: part of the way we're hoping to break through is by word-of-mouth - nothing's more powerful than an engineer's recommendation to another | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | if someone has success in making something really cool by mer, they'll pass it on | 11:22 |
| zeq | that's true :) | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: are you into UI side too a bit? | 11:23 |
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| zeq | I used to be | 11:23 |
| * l3i is seeing irony in that something called Mer is also being called "a bit dry" | 11:24 | |
| zeq | I've not done anything on that end of things for a while | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | l3i: ;) | 11:24 |
| zeq | :) | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | so, give an estimate on how many months it takes to code a traditional homescreen for a mobile device | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | like, a flashy one | 11:24 |
| zeq | From concept? | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, let's say from concept | 11:24 |
| zeq | hmmm | 11:24 |
| zeq | 3? | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | okay, now watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM and look at http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qml/ | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | that's the code that makes that | 11:25 |
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| zeq | that can't have taken long | 11:26 |
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| Stskeeps | lipstick's a homescreen toolkit utilizing qml, the bit that gives you composited windows: WindowPixmap { | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | anchors.fill:preview | 11:26 |
| zeq | The last time I did serious UI development was on Acorn RISC OS | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | windowId: model.windowId | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | i hope things have improved :) | 11:26 |
| zeq | A lot less programming! | 11:27 |
| zeq | No need to deal with poll loops ;) | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | but it also shows how fast you can do mobile UI these days | 11:27 |
| zeq | Maybe I moved down the stack as things became too easy? :) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | i'm fine with being in the engine room too, but i do want to make it a hell lot easier to do mobile for small to medium enterprises | 11:29 |
| zeq | I have to admit I used to code UIs in ARM assembler on the Acorn :) | 11:29 |
| zeq | I completely understand that | 11:29 |
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| zeq | there's also a lot of productive high level developers | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm going to this 2012.front-trends.com conference this week and pondering how to pitch mer in that respect | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | if anything, i'll learn how the high level people work and think | 11:31 |
| zeq | goal orientation? | 11:31 |
| lbt | Devaamo CFP response sent: "BOSS: Automating Mer" | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: good | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: hm? | 11:32 |
| zeq | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-oriented | 11:32 |
| alterego | Ah, a fellow Acorn guy :) | 11:32 |
| zeq | Guilty | 11:33 |
| alterego | What machines did you have? I've still git my RPC and A3020 :) | 11:33 |
| zeq | RPC, A3000, BBC B, Electron | 11:34 |
| alterego | still got those too :) | 11:34 |
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| alterego | Got probably 2 or three electrons and probably the same count of beebs | 11:34 |
| zeq | My electron broke, and sadly my B got thrown out | 11:35 |
| alterego | I was lucky enough to have a dad that worked there whilst I was growing up :) | 11:35 |
| zeq | ah nice | 11:35 |
| alterego | Broke? That's unusual :) | 11:35 |
| zeq | psu failure | 11:35 |
| alterego | ah lame, could have probably found a spare one for you. | 11:36 |
| zeq | I'm sure most would still work :) | 11:36 |
| zeq | It did get lots of use! | 11:36 |
| zeq | learnt to program on it | 11:36 |
| alterego | Nice to hear :) | 11:37 |
| lbt | fyi : http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Donation_Policy | 11:37 |
| alterego | Yeah, me too | 11:37 |
| lbt | comments on wording welcome | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: for funding, for the participant's mutual benefit.. or somethingish | 11:37 |
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| zeq | amazing would you could do in under 20kb RAM | 11:38 |
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| Stskeeps | in other news, you can do 'osc getbinaries' in a project | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | interesting | 11:39 |
| lbt | osc --help is a mess | 11:40 |
| lbt | I need to re-arrange it by concept | 11:40 |
| lbt | "... for funding the community expenses" | 11:41 |
| lbt | ? | 11:41 |
| * Stskeeps makes a mental note we really need a statement on what being a co-operative means.. | 11:41 | |
| * lbt got frustrated with puppet/nagios and needed to relax | 11:42 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: remember the % split between work and fun, else you run out of energy very quickly | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:43 |
| * Stskeeps is currently organizing mer work as if he was being paid to work on it, with free time / hobby projects | 11:43 | |
| Stskeeps | and i can already feel it helping | 11:43 |
| lbt | hehe ... last week or so I spent more time than I thought arranging music - was nice | 11:44 |
| zeq | who is the Donation Policy aimed at? People/organisations looking to donate, or encouraging donations? | 11:44 |
| lbt | people looking to donate | 11:45 |
| lbt | mainly to say "sorry, we can't take ad-hoc hosted servers" | 11:45 |
| iekku | reminder: mer bug triage starting in 15 minutes @ #mer-meeting | 11:45 |
| lbt | zeq: we may need to actually encourage donations at some point too - but that page isn't really it | 11:45 |
| lbt | iekku: ta | 11:46 |
| lbt | iekku: can we make it 11 UTC (as it used to be) in future? | 11:46 |
| zeq | okay, that's how I read it | 11:46 |
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| iekku | lbt, sure | 11:46 |
| * lbt may have to leave early if Denise's train arrives :) | 11:46 | |
| iekku | lbt, there's only 3 bugs | 11:47 |
| lbt | oh, yes I recall it was short this week - random must be on holiday :) | 11:47 |
| iekku | wont take long :) | 11:47 |
| lbt | we should do a task and/or bug review too - validate prios | 11:47 |
| lbt | it's been a while | 11:48 |
| iekku | :nod: | 11:48 |
| iekku | huh, there's 103 bugs in that list | 11:49 |
| * lbt goes to prepare coffee with extra shot of espresso | 11:49 | |
| zeq | coffee is a wonderful idea | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | iekku: we just overview and decide if it makes sense | 11:50 |
| * zeq goes to grind some beans | 11:50 | |
| lbt | zeq: feel free to monitor the triage just FYI too | 11:50 |
| iekku | Stskeeps, ok :) | 11:51 |
| iekku | let | 11:51 |
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| iekku | jlkag ölg a | 11:51 |
| zeq | thanks for the invite | 11:51 |
| iekku | let's have that also today if there's enough time | 11:51 |
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| lbt | hmmm 22311 shots of coffee..... that's a lot of code! | 11:56 |
| iekku | bug triage starting soon | 11:59 |
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| E-P | l3i: I have already forgot the <environments> element, how it was used? | 12:34 |
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| l3i | E-P: Actually it was used a very long time ago, I guess it hasn't basically been used for anything lately | 12:34 |
| l3i | E-P: There was a time when you could run some tests in Scratchbox | 12:35 |
| l3i | E-P: but later that was abandoned | 12:35 |
| E-P | l3i: ok, now I remember something like that | 12:35 |
| l3i | E-P: But maybe it could be "reused" (if there's a proper reason) | 12:35 |
| E-P | yep, I agree | 12:36 |
| E-P | mainly for chroot tests | 12:36 |
| l3i | E-P: Yes, maybe | 12:36 |
| E-P | my idea is that the test doesn't care about that, it should be handled in the higher level, in the test planning | 12:37 |
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| l3i | E-P: I'd also not make the test itself use it | 12:38 |
| E-P | test packages just provides test cases and in the higher level we can map them to release testing or nightly testing | 12:38 |
| l3i | E-P: yep, sounds better | 12:38 |
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| l3i | E-P: but the test package itself could (and maybe should) contain some level of information about in what kind of environment the tests are designed to be used in | 12:39 |
| lbt | l3i: yes, how does test-planner know what the test needs? | 12:39 |
| l3i | E-P: Maybe the package metadata itself could be a better place for some of that type of info, than the test XML. Not all the info should be only available in some external mapping file or such | 12:40 |
| lbt | the test plan says what should be run - but how can you make a test plan without somehow knowing which tests are sane in (say) a chroot? | 12:40 |
| l3i | lbt: Why not just have a separate test package for separate environment? | 12:40 |
| l3i | lbt: Maybe using same dependencies for actual code etc., but still having a separate test definition | 12:41 |
| lbt | you could have 20 tests in a package, 15 OK in chroots, 5 not | 12:41 |
| lbt | eg some need a network | 12:41 |
| l3i | lbt: You could have for instance one "test code package" and three environment-dependent metapackages with the test definitions for different environments (which would bring in the test code as a package dependency) | 12:42 |
| l3i | lbt: But again, you'd need to have the mapping between environment -> test metadata package somewhere | 12:43 |
| l3i | Not sure what would be the best place.. haven't thought very far | 12:43 |
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| lbt | I would like to master the data in a sane place and extract it to use externally | 12:44 |
| l3i | And well, if you created a separate test metadata package for each combination of say (network yes/no, chroot yes/no, ...) that would possibly be a lot of packages... | 12:44 |
| lbt | the key for me is where is the master and how do you version control it | 12:44 |
| lbt | does the meta need to be vc'ed discrete from the tests? | 12:45 |
| l3i | lbt: No, it doesn't need to, but in some cases it might be feasible to use the packaging directly to select tests | 12:45 |
| l3i | And in general I'd prefer separating test definitions from test code anyway | 12:45 |
| l3i | That way the test code is more easily reusable | 12:46 |
| lbt | *nod* | 12:46 |
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| l3i | You can also have a single test definition which uses test code from different code packages | 12:46 |
| l3i | etc. | 12:46 |
| E-P | +1 | 12:47 |
| lbt | hmm | 12:47 |
| E-P | I had similar idea in MeeGo | 12:47 |
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| E-P | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Esmietti#1._Not_designed_to_be_a_test_plan | 12:47 |
| lbt | maybe I need to look closer at the content - I'm not sure how you could change the environment needs of a test code without changing the code | 12:47 |
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| l3i | lbt: Well, you can have both code that has special requirements and code that hasn't, in same code package.. | 12:48 |
| E-P | l3i: that was one idea how to link multiple test packages to one definition | 12:48 |
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| lbt | yes, that's fine | 12:48 |
| lbt | I assume the metadat is at the test level, not the package level | 12:49 |
| lbt | it kinda has to be | 12:49 |
| l3i | E-P: Ah, ok, so the idea was to be able to "include" test definitions themselves | 12:49 |
| E-P | l3i: kind of | 12:49 |
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| E-P | lbt: yes, it should be | 12:50 |
| * lbt kinda thinks of tests like libraries... metadata like header files and a test plan is like C code... | 12:50 | |
| l3i | E-P: Actually sounds somewhat too complex, is my first reaction.. but I'll need to read through | 12:50 |
| lbt | installing a lib doesn't mean you run all functions.... headers say what they do and the test plan calls the functions | 12:50 |
| E-P | l3i: don't read :) it was meant for pointing out that creating real test plans with definition was hard | 12:50 |
| E-P | lbt: that would good idea | 12:51 |
| E-P | test packages would provides tools for testing | 12:51 |
| E-P | and in the metafile the required packages are defined | 12:51 |
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| l3i | E-P: Ok.. :) | 12:52 |
| lbt | I tend to think we should avoid discussing 'packages' | 12:52 |
| lbt | that's a solution for delivering tests to rootfs/images | 12:53 |
| E-P | lbt: long history with that naming :) | 12:53 |
| lbt | *nod* ... it feels like it should be the servant, not the master in our design discussions | 12:53 |
| E-P | i would also like to separate the testing tools to host and device | 12:54 |
| E-P | eg. when testing USB mass storage, some steps are executed on the host side and some are in the device side | 12:54 |
| E-P | and both might need different set of tools | 12:54 |
| lbt | for sure - again, you can keep a single git repo/tarball and split the installation if you like | 12:54 |
| l3i | E-P: +1 | 12:54 |
| E-P | tr-lite is now days used mainly in the host side and steps are executed remotely | 12:55 |
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| lbt | so... back to metadata ... what is in a test's metadata? | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | ah, so tr-lite isn't required on-device? | 12:55 |
| E-P | Stskeeps: no | 12:55 |
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| l3i | E-P: Definitely agree that running steps on different sides should be supported. But actually also the "event system" that was in the plans earlier is something that I'd like to have seen implemented already | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:56 |
| E-P | l3i: agree | 12:57 |
| E-P | lbt: how the test's metadata differs from the test-definition? | 12:58 |
| lbt | maybe.... | 12:58 |
| E-P | if the test definition would be just a file, not in the test package | 12:58 |
| lbt | test-definition != test plan ? | 12:58 |
| E-P | true, test-definition describes tests and how to execute tests | 12:59 |
| lbt | so that's more than a test definition | 12:59 |
| lbt | mmm | 12:59 |
| lbt | so that's more than just test metadata | 12:59 |
| lbt | ie it contains data about a collection of tests | 13:00 |
| E-P | in the test-definition, one test has steps which are basically command line commands | 13:00 |
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| E-P | I would keep the test metadata and how to execute the test in a same place, example in the test-definition | 13:02 |
| lbt | OK - but one test definition : one test | 13:02 |
| l3i | lbt: So what would you consider as test metadata in this context? | 13:02 |
| lbt | l3i: keeping it vague "What's needed to run the test" | 13:02 |
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| E-P | lbt: maybe set of tests, somehow related to each other | 13:03 |
| l3i | lbt: Can't be very vague in case the info also needs to be used to automatically do some decisions | 13:03 |
| lbt | l3i: sorry, the definition is vague for now | 13:03 |
| lbt | we then clarify ... | 13:03 |
| l3i | lbt: yes of course | 13:04 |
| lbt | eg it needs a thing to test - so probably a package | 13:04 |
| l3i | lbt: Or several packages | 13:04 |
| E-P | yes | 13:04 |
| lbt | well | 13:04 |
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| l3i | an integration test for instance would normally test several components | 13:05 |
| E-P | and what packages to device and what packages to host :) | 13:05 |
| lbt | yes | 13:05 |
| l3i | Or the combination of those actually | 13:05 |
| lbt | E-P: hold that thought for now | 13:05 |
| E-P | :) | 13:05 |
| lbt | still keeping it vague "What's needed *in the test environment* to run the test" | 13:06 |
| l3i | E-P: best to not mix the dependencies of the tests and the components that they are testing.. those are not always 1 to 1 | 13:06 |
| E-P | you are right | 13:07 |
| lbt | then if the test environment needs "tcp connection to HTTP server" the test planner needs to arrange this | 13:07 |
| l3i | E-P: Although of course all the dependencies can still affect test results... even if they're not something the test is designed to test as such | 13:07 |
| lbt | I assume no tests depend on other tests? | 13:08 |
| l3i | lbt: I'd also assume that | 13:08 |
| l3i | lbt: If there are such dependencies, the tests are badly designed in my opinion | 13:08 |
| l3i | usually at least that would be the case | 13:09 |
| lbt | (I can see arguments against - but we can note as an assumption) | 13:09 |
| E-P | lbt: we had in maemo and meego that if test needed a network connection, it was part of the test | 13:09 |
| E-P | but I like the idea that we have "general commands" like setup 3g network | 13:10 |
| l3i | E-P: "General commands" available to whom/what? | 13:10 |
| E-P | l3i: we had a common library for such commands in mwts | 13:11 |
| lbt | E-P: I'd say that falls into metadata - needs 3g HW | 13:11 |
| lbt | which may actually just be "device" | 13:11 |
| E-P | lbt: yep, and then we would have another tests or command what would setup the connection | 13:12 |
| lbt | yep - tests depending on reusable libraries is sane | 13:12 |
| E-P | oh.. so late already, I have to run | 13:12 |
| lbt | regression checks when the lib changes... ouch | 13:12 |
| lbt | E-P: thanks ... o/ | 13:13 |
| E-P | I try to write our ideas to wiki and let's continue discussion | 13:13 |
| lbt | so I think "test metadata" should be stuff about the individual test | 13:13 |
| E-P | we are going to right direction | 13:13 |
| lbt | and I feel that it's version controlled alongside (inside) the test code itself | 13:14 |
| lbt | sure it may need extracting to a database or something to be used... that's OK | 13:14 |
| l3i | lbt: Extracting whenever the metadata changes in version control shouldn't be a big deal..? | 13:15 |
| lbt | no | 13:15 |
| l3i | lbt: But I agree that the place (and versioning) for that metadata should normally be the same as for the "actual test" | 13:16 |
| lbt | and we've looked at things like : steps to run tests, dependencies (HW, test utility libraries, test data, target being tested, test harness needed), description (I assume) | 13:16 |
| lbt | some may be the same for all tests in a tarball of "actual tests" - but database do repetition well :) | 13:17 |
| lbt | would be good to try to list what else is in metadata (and what's not) | 13:17 |
| lbt | test order isn't (IMHO) in metadata | 13:18 |
| lbt | nor is "package to be installed on host" ... (?) | 13:18 |
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| lbt | I would like some relationship to a BUG, FEA or architectural component | 13:19 |
| Aard | does your wife approve? | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | (we don't have a featurezilla atm..) | 13:20 |
| lbt | s/a/none, one or more/ | 13:20 |
| lbt | Aard: she's very progressive | 13:20 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: design ready for if/when we do - and even if we don't, vendors will | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | pl | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:21 |
| * lbt grins at poland being OK+1 | 13:21 | |
| l3i | lbt: Test order should not matter from the test's point of view, if iall the tests are properly designed. So that's something depending more on which test results we want first etc. - nothing to do with the actual test directky | 13:23 |
| lbt | yep - so hints to help us order them would be nice | 13:23 |
| lbt | hence my suggestion about running time | 13:23 |
| lbt | or even something like "fails easily" | 13:24 |
| l3i | lbt: Well, at least we should run some quick tests that give basic info of the state of "big blocks" first. Also to determine if there's a point to run subsequent tests at all | 13:24 |
| lbt | yep - so the trick is undestanding how you make that call | 13:24 |
| l3i | lbt: yep.. | 13:24 |
| lbt | and providing enough hints in metadata to get a "good enough" approximation | 13:25 |
| l3i | lbt: I don't think the metadata associated with a test itself can give very much info for those purposes, as you must also know the context to decide | 13:25 |
| lbt | mmm | 13:26 |
| l3i | lbt: The metadata can tell how the test is like, maybe not what the purpose of running it is in your context | 13:26 |
| l3i | particularly | 13:26 |
| l3i | Well, it can give hints as you said | 13:26 |
| lbt | yep | 13:26 |
| l3i | but you can't get a good approximation based on that alone, I'd say | 13:26 |
| l3i | normally | 13:26 |
| l3i | lbt: Not even what comes to the duration of the test in your selected context | 13:27 |
| lbt | instead of duration think "cost" | 13:27 |
| l3i | lbt: yes, not just duration of course | 13:28 |
| l3i | lbt: But the costs of different tests in relation to other tests may differ depending on context | 13:28 |
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| l3i | so the metadata of a single test can't provide enough info normally | 13:28 |
| lbt | agree | 13:28 |
| lbt | how? | 13:28 |
| lbt | how do they differ according to context? | 13:29 |
| l3i | lbt: Well, in this particular case I actually referred to things like the test environment with the word context | 13:29 |
| l3i | lbt: The same test might be "expensive" to run in an environment, and "cheap" in another | 13:29 |
| lbt | OK - but examples? even vague ones :) | 13:29 |
| l3i | lbt: Sorry, can't come up with any right now :) | 13:30 |
| l3i | lbt: Will have to think | 13:30 |
| lbt | OK | 13:30 |
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| lbt | so how would you normally set out a test plan? | 13:31 |
| lbt | "normally" - hah! | 13:31 |
| l3i | lbt: heh.. | 13:31 |
| l3i | lbt: test plan = what in this case ? | 13:31 |
| lbt | sequence of tests to check 5 packages which have changed. One's been hacked on, 3 depend on it at code level, 1 uses it via dbus API. | 13:32 |
| lbt | sequence of tests to check 5 packages. One's been hacked on, 3 depend on it at code level, 1 uses it via dbus API. | 13:33 |
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| sledges | hello everybuddy! | 13:33 |
| lbt | hey sledges | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | moo sledges | 13:33 |
| sledges | o\ :) | 13:33 |
| * lbt will learn to make animal noises one day | 13:33 | |
| sledges | how's things? | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | good, one more day spent on moving mer ahead | 13:35 |
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| sledges | mine's too :) with Lipstick QML | 13:35 |
| lbt | sledges: can I haz a tutorial? | 13:35 |
| sledges | question: I finally calibrated the touchscreen, but Lipstick QML does not react to touches (in xterm before typing "$ lipstick" [enter], mouse cursor is visible and is reacting to touches) | 13:36 |
| sledges | lbt, on animal noises? :) | 13:36 |
| sledges | I think you have to ask Stskeeps | 13:37 |
| l3i | lbt: I'd first check how the available tests map against the four first packages, then run the ones mapped to be module/unit tests for the hacked package, then integration tests for the combination of the 4 packages and the hacked one. | 13:37 |
| lbt | sledges: if I learn "oink" then I'll need lipstick.. | 13:37 |
| l3i | lbt: Not sure if you can get the point based on what I wrote though... | 13:37 |
| sledges | :) yes, I'm getting very close with Lipstick to a sellable demo, so a tutorial will come up! | 13:38 |
| lbt | sledges: broken tutorial first - helping fix little issues is a good learning tool | 13:38 |
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| lbt | l3i: would you do module/unit for the 3 "depend at code" before integration | 13:39 |
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| sledges | :)) I'm working on imx53_loco if that's fine with you :) apart from that - mic lipstick.ks and put it on SD card :)) | 13:39 |
| l3i | lbt: No. As I'd expect them to have been run earlier | 13:39 |
| lbt | l3i: when? - they just got rebuilt | 13:40 |
| l3i | and if they're unit/module tests (really), then they should not be dependent on how other code works | 13:40 |
| l3i | lbt: Ah, true | 13:40 |
| l3i | lbt: of course... Any way to separate actually changed packages and other packages rebuild because of a dependency? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: check normal x cursor works first | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | with xorg | 13:41 |
| lbt | l3i: yes | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | / xterm | 13:41 |
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| l3i | lbt: In that case, that separation would need to be taken into account. No unit/module testing for unchanged code | 13:41 |
| lbt | phone sec | 13:42 |
| l3i | lbt: when it comes to real unit/module testing where the rest of the system is mocked (or something similar) anyway, if taken into account at all | 13:42 |
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| l3i | Need to leave for today | 13:45 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, that's what I said - it does. I have default.desktop->xterm.desktop, and Xorg comes up with cursor visible, responding to touches | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: ok, single or multi touch? | 13:48 |
| sledges | then I type lipstick into xterm, press enter and loose touchscreen responsiveness | 13:48 |
| sledges | single | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | gimme Xorg.0.log | 13:48 |
| sledges | maybe I should launch lipstick qml straight away without xterm | 13:48 |
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| lbt | bank .... I need a "trading address on the website for Mer Project" ... grrr | 13:56 |
| sledges | Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/3839158 | 13:57 |
| lbt | l3i: otoh if the headers are changed and it's rebuilt - the binaries will have changed | 13:57 |
| lbt | or the shared libraries it links against.... | 13:57 |
| lbt | l3i: just playing devils advocate a touch | 13:57 |
| sledges | weird, if i start lipstick right as default.desktop, I see the mouse cursor for about several seconds, but the push events are not being sent.. so something's wrong with the touchscreen evdev driver.. | 13:57 |
| sledges | need to make it work proper under xorgs (touchscreen testing software anyone? :)) | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | sledges: get xinput tool | 14:05 |
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| Termana | lbt, I've sent a pull request on github for sdk-kickstarter-configs. | 14:09 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, got it. It appears that is not sending PEN DOWN events to Xorg (although on console I get straight from kernel the "Exiting PEN DOWN HANDLER" messages). So maybe is not the evdev that I need to use in Xorg.. | 14:09 |
| Termana | Nothing is committed for sdk-kickstarter-configs in mer gitweb/gerrit is that on purpose? | 14:10 |
| lbt | need to get around to it | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: hmm, get xorg-x11-util-xinput or something like that | 14:24 |
| lbt | Termana: I'd simplify it a bit... `ps aux | awk '{print $2}' | grep ${pid}` -> -d /proc/$pid/ | 14:25 |
| lbt | (also avoids $pid being a subset of another pid) | 14:26 |
| lbt | do you think we need the echos now? I'm tempted to quieten it down | 14:26 |
| Termana | I closed the pull request because of a mix up on grepping the PIDs. I can remove the echos if you want, do you want it to still echo which processes are still actually using the SDK files though (the ones that need to be killed/whatever)? | 14:29 |
| lbt | yes - that makes sense since the user should do something about them | 14:30 |
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| mdfe | Sage: hi, do you have five minutes for me? | 14:41 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, got xorg-x11-utils-xinput from Nemo repo but it says "XI2 not supported" | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: hmmm | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: what xorg server are you using on there.. | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | show me whole error log? | 14:43 |
| mdfe | Sage: we tried to submit a fix to the mer core, can you take a look if we have done it in the right way? | 14:44 |
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| sledges | 1.10.1-1.29 from lipstick.ks (adapted from nemo.ks by adding lipstick repo, and @Mer Minimal Xorg provides X) | 14:45 |
| timoph | lbt: pong (was at the movies) | 14:45 |
| lbt | timoph: sorted - was asking about cfp for devaamo | 14:45 |
| timoph | ack | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | mdfe: hmm, something is looking a bit weird | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | though i'm trying to figure out what exactly :) | 14:47 |
| mdfe | this would be very nice :) | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: can i see your 'git log' from the nspr change? | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | it seems like a git commit --amend by accident | 14:50 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, .xsession-errors: http://pastie.org/3839425 | 14:51 |
| mdfe | bfederau: ping ^^ | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: no, for xorg-x11-utils-xinput | 14:52 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/3839434 | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: can you explain the steps/instructions you followed up to your git commit? | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | just to track back on where things wrong | 14:53 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: right i used 'git commit --amend' | 14:53 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, "$ xinput list (newline) XI2 not supported" :) | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: uhh. | 14:54 |
| sledges | arm7l.. | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: ah, that explains a lot - you could just have git commit -sm "Fix this" :) | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | sledges: export DISPLAY=:0 ? | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: git commit --amend means go back to previous commit and append on it | 14:54 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: i used the instructions of http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail | 14:54 |
| bfederau | and pushed it with this commands | 14:54 |
| bfederau | git add <changed-files> | 14:54 |
| bfederau | git commit -s --amend -m "<Commit description>" | 14:54 |
| bfederau | git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | right, that seems wrong | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | l | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | let me check | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: ok, so amend is only used when you had a bad review and you want to fix something | 14:56 |
| lbt | bfederau: yeah that's in the "Re-submit if original change was rejected" section I think | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail#Push_for_review is the steps for a normal change | 14:56 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: oh damn then I were in the wrong lines of this instructions | 14:57 |
| mdfe | Stskeeps: where is the git remote 'gerrit' defined? | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: will you kill me if i ask you to give it another try, from git clone ? (click "Abandon change" on http://review.merproject.org/541 | 14:57 |
| sledges | Stskeeps, now from UART console: http://pastie.org/3839456 | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | mdfe: that looks like an error | 14:58 |
| * Stskeeps fixes | 14:58 | |
| Stskeeps | two errors in guide, thanks for catching | 14:59 |
| * lbt thinks he sees a missing -a in the commit (and -a only git adds previously added files that were modified) | 14:59 | |
| Stskeeps | -a can do a lot of damage, i think | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | or does it | 15:00 |
| lbt | no, git add . does | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: besides that, actual packaging and patch looks fine | 15:00 |
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| lbt | -a : "Tell the command to automatically stage files that have been modified and deleted, but new files you have not told git about are not affected." | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 15:01 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: I will abandon my review request and try it again :) | 15:01 |
| lbt | plus we should be careful not to make it too much of a git tutorial | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: :nod: still, off the street | 15:02 |
| lbt | yeah | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | bfederau: and for good measure, git commit -s means saying http://gerrit.googlecode.com/svn/documentation/2.0/user-signedoffby.html | 15:05 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: i have re-done it and now it looks way better than before ;) | 15:22 |
| bfederau | Stskeeps: Thanks for your help | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | looks fine to me :) | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | now the automated testing will go through and reviews will come in, then i stage it, and merge in next merge window | 15:24 |
| sledges | lol, Stskeeps , I have not built evtouch_drv.so ;) | 15:25 |
| mdfe | :) | 15:25 |
| sledges | borrowed swcho (build errors on OBS, trying to fight them now) | 15:25 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Mer booted on my Archos 101G9: yay! | 16:01 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I promise that I will write up an addendum for the installation instructions, which right now only work for 101S mobo, not the 101H one I have. | 16:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | That way, the next newb who comes along can just be pointed to new instructions. | 16:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Thanks so much, Sage, Stskeeps, _av500_ and dm8tbr for your help. | 16:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | And dm8tbr for suggestion in buying 101g9 in the first place. I look forward to using it! | 16:03 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Now on to breaking own projects packages, instead of yours. | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: congratulations :) | 16:03 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Thanks, Stskeeps. 5 minutes into new efforts, I'll be back with a Qt question, I'm sure! | 16:05 |
| Alison_Chaiken | (Qt-OBS, I mean. I know #qt has own channels.) | 16:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | But first, breakfast. | 16:06 |
| sledges | hmm, why did specify (from Mer:SDK) stopped adding autogen --disable-static even when .yaml contains Configure: autogen ? | 16:12 |
| * sledges apologises - lost in .YAMLs :)) | 16:15 | |
| sledges | all good now | 16:15 |
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| Sage | mdfe: looks oko to me. | 16:20 |
| mdfe | cool, thx | 16:21 |
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| vgrade2 | Stskeeps, remember http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/ | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:27 |
| vgrade2 | I have the timings now and I don't think I can make it | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | saturday 10am what timezone? | 16:28 |
| vgrade2 | janice and I have a dinner engagement which starts just as the session ends | 16:28 |
| vgrade2 | 17:00 UTC | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 16:29 |
| * Stskeeps counts | 16:29 | |
| vgrade2 | I could be present for some of the time, if your up for it I'll send you the email | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | i think i can participate, let me just ask the missus's | 16:30 |
| vgrade2 | np | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | yes, please do | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i can do it, please inform the rest to keep me in the loop | 16:32 |
| * Stskeeps adds to calendar | 16:32 | |
| vgrade2 | cheers, good advert | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | i'll probably be well practiced in my mer pitch anyway after 2 days at a conference.. | 16:36 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade2: and my skype is carsten.v.munk | 16:37 |
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| vgrade2 | Stskeeps, oh its the UI thing this week | 16:38 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade2: hmm? | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yeah | 16:40 |
| dm8tbr | Alison_Chaiken: awesome! let me know once you have that and I'll mention it also on the openAOS blog | 16:40 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if i should bring lipstick on a n9.. | 16:41 |
| sledges | appears that evtouch with xorg 1.10 does not work :( libtouch.h:51:9: error: unknown type name 'LocalDevicePtr' | 16:41 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | dm8tbr, will do. | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: btw, with your own self-made image or pre-generated? | 17:02 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Stskeeps, I kept the PlasmaActive userland to begin with. One step at a time! | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 17:03 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Next step is to try to install packages tripzero built, just to see if they work out of the box. | 17:03 |
| Alison_Chaiken | It would be great for other users if they did. | 17:04 |
| * Stskeeps boots up his driver's license training programme under WINE.. | 17:07 | |
| vgrade2 | driving and wine don't often mix well | 17:08 |
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| dm8tbr | don't drink and derive -- it had to be said... | 17:09 |
| CosmoHill | big bang theory? | 17:11 |
| vgrade2 | my son has bought the BBT boxed set, worth watching? | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | quite good, makes you understand a lot of people on the internet ;) | 17:12 |
| dm8tbr | that saying is way older | 17:12 |
| CosmoHill | vgrade2: I prefer the older stuff where it's more about geeky jokes than women / relationships | 17:13 |
| vgrade2 | I think he has S1-4 | 17:13 |
| CosmoHill | watch the first two, if you like it keep watching | 17:14 |
| CosmoHill | not all on one go, if you find that you love it you'll spent all day in a room with a dvd player | 17:14 |
| vgrade2 | is not really a tv person but this series seems to get recommended | 17:14 |
| CosmoHill | I get confused watching it on E4 cos they show the old stuff then a brand new episode | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | 12/18 in theoretical test on computer.. so far so good | 17:19 |
| vgrade2 | qtonpi vouchers are out | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | cool, congrats to those who are on the list :) | 17:21 |
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| CosmoHill | I've been home from work 23 mins and I've already done everything on the computer | 17:23 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: do you get english questions or do you have to deal with the cryptspeak of us locals? | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: getting taught in english, theoretical can be done on computers with english questions.. practical with sworn translator | 17:28 |
| dm8tbr | that last bit is cool :D | 17:29 |
| CosmoHill | cool | 17:29 |
| CosmoHill | if you have an emergency stop, is it timed from when the examiner or the translator shouts? | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | CosmoHill: i think 'stop' is the same in all my fluent languages | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:31 |
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| CosmoHill | in my home town, if you're not a very good driver you take your test at the next town's test centre cos it's easier | 17:34 |
| CosmoHill | my home down has some complex / weird road layouts | 17:34 |
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| mikel_ | hi there | 17:35 |
| CosmoHill | hi *there* | 17:35 |
| CosmoHill | wait, wrong channel, I mean welcome | 17:35 |
| mikel_ | i started my n900 to install latest nemo | 17:35 |
| mikel_ | the image does not load | 17:35 |
| dm8tbr | you have uboot? | 17:35 |
| mikel_ | it says something like ntdoops: 18,19 (no erase) | 17:36 |
| mikel_ | i used ssd card in the n900 | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | put your back cover on | 17:36 |
| mikel_ | yes uboot should be on the n900 installed, as I have meego put on it the same way | 17:36 |
| mikel_ | hi carsten | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 17:37 |
| mikel_ | back cover=? it is on | 17:37 |
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| Stskeeps | how about the magnet in it? | 17:37 |
| mikel_ | a magnet in the backcover? | 17:37 |
| dm8tbr | under the kickstand | 17:38 |
| mikel_ | what is the kickstand? the bridge for the ssd card ? | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | the kickstand is the one in the camera lid you can move out to make the n900 stand | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | there's a tiny magnet underneath is | 17:39 |
| mikel_ | ah, the lense was shut dark | 17:39 |
| mikel_ | ok the lense is open now and I start it, backover on. | 17:40 |
| dm8tbr | flip out the kickstand and look at the now empty spot _next_ to the lense | 17:40 |
| dm8tbr | NOT the lensecover! | 17:40 |
| mikel_ | mhh the ssd card is now out. | 17:41 |
| mikel_ | the lense has an eye, over it the flash, next to it a hole and the hole of the opposite for the back cover | 17:42 |
| mikel_ | where is there a magnet? | 17:42 |
| * Stskeeps gets out paint.. | 17:42 | |
| Stskeeps | http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/2234/ea212c828b0e4f9c8a77d57013cae06a.jpg | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | see the black square there? | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | it's a magnet | 17:43 |
| mikel_ | oh | 17:43 |
| mikel_ | so i keep it out | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | no, do you have that magnet or not.. | 17:43 |
| mikel_ | never knew there is something like that, yes there is such an stander | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | *SIGH* | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | now flip it ou | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | out | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | and look at the place where it WAS | 17:44 |
| mikel_ | seems there is in the middle something quadrant yes | 17:44 |
| dm8tbr | NOT in the kickstand, in the backcover. just to make this clear | 17:45 |
| mikel_ | it is in the middle | 17:45 |
| dm8tbr | that little square thing you saw on the photo | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | mikel_: good, now tell me the messages up to 10 lines before the error | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | ideally take a photo of it | 17:45 |
| mikel_ | it looks like your sent screenshot | 17:46 |
| mikel_ | i need to restart to get the text | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: did you forget any of your equipment in WAW, btw? they evacuated shortly after you boarded i think :) | 17:47 |
| mikel_ | failed to register misc device | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | all 10 lines before that | 17:47 |
| mikel_ | the screen starts and boots, then the second page appears, this is the first line, higher i cannot look as it is the first page | 17:48 |
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| Stskeeps | ok | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | walk me through how you wrote the image | 17:48 |
| mikel_ | second line for pag 2 is power management | 17:48 |
| mikel_ | third:; unablte to open drivers | 17:48 |
| mikel_ | rtc device | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | sorry | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | it is so small wirtten | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | 4: kernel panic | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | not syncing | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | vF3: unablre zto moutn root | 17:49 |
| mikel_ | es on unknown | 17:50 |
| mikel_ | block | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so i need to know how you wrote the image to micrsd | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | microsd | 17:50 |
| mikel_ | 5 + 6:. unmount and panic again | 17:50 |
| mikel_ | with windows , without formatting the card with the tool provided | 17:51 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, and what guide do you follow? | 17:51 |
| mikel_ | just unziped the bz to image, loaded the image in the sd card writer and hit write | 17:52 |
| mikel_ | the nemo guide | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 17:52 |
| mikel_ | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Windows_Host | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | ok, any mmc errors while booting? | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | and what uboot did you use | 17:53 |
| mikel_ | boot says ssd card ok | 17:54 |
| mikel_ | the uboot was downloaded once for meego in maemo, the developer thing, dunno the version, should I boot meamo tos ee ? | 17:55 |
| mikel_ | driver/rtc/iotosys.c:unable to open rtc device (rtc 0) | 17:56 |
| mikel_ | najoo was just a test | 17:57 |
| mikel_ | will try later again | 17:57 |
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| mikel_ | did not found where I installed uboot and which version, have closed the thing now, maybe the SD card has not been flashed proper, as the file explorer shows old pathes in maemo whithout card and closed the file explorer then | 18:23 |
| mikel_ | anyway, maybe soon there will be a device for nemo | 18:23 |
| mikel_ | tizen said, for the christmas sales samsung brings out a tizen phone | 18:23 |
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| Stskeeps | christmas? well that's new | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | zeq: happen to know if the medfield style processors do 64-bit? | 18:35 |
| * timoph ponders about it's power consuption | 18:38 | |
| timoph | in any case if it is sold in a decent prize and one can boot alternative things in it I'll get one | 18:40 |
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| zeq | Stskeeps: I don't know. From what I can find online it doesn't, certainly nothing definitive. Usually Intel is pretty good on specs. *shrug* | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:16 |
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| lbt | Safe thing to do CosmoHill | 20:56 |
| CosmoHill | I was on web cam at the weekend so I technically waved at someone from 200 miles away | 20:57 |
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| CosmoHill | I mean I can do that at any time but this time he saw it | 21:01 |
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| lbt | *g* | 21:02 |
| CosmoHill | I just read a two page chapter | 21:03 |
| CosmoHill | if I'd of know it was only two pages I'd of read it at lunch time instead of stopping there | 21:03 |
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| CosmoHill | Asda want £5,031.82 a year to insure a £5,750 car | 21:44 |
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| vgrade2 | thats crazy | 21:48 |
| CosmoHill | cheapest was £1,386.48 | 21:48 |
| CosmoHill | what's annoying is that last year I was getting quotes of £1200+ for my current car which is a 1.4L petrol | 21:49 |
| CosmoHill | this car I'm after quotes for is a 2.5L turbo petrol and only £190 a year more | 21:49 |
| vgrade2 | used to depend quite hevily on age and recency of passing test. | 21:51 |
| CosmoHill | it should be an awesome second car | 21:51 |
| * lbt looks at his quote for a 4.2litre supercharged V8 (with tweaks) and enjoys being "mature" | 21:52 | |
| CosmoHill | lbt: look at the green insurance company, they wanted 9K | 21:52 |
| lbt | somehow I'm not sure it's a "green" car... | 21:53 |
| smoku | should I have mic2 installed in Platform SDK? | 21:53 |
| lbt | smoku: not mic2 | 21:53 |
| lbt | "mic" | 21:53 |
| lbt | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic | 21:54 |
| smoku | lbt: I see mic. but http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation still speaks about mic2 | 21:54 |
| lbt | bug | 21:54 |
| smoku | lbt: so, I should use mic (1) not mic2 ? | 21:55 |
| lbt | read my link :) | 21:55 |
| smoku | lbt: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic still links http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation | 21:55 |
| smoku | also http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners talks about mic2 | 21:56 |
| lbt | yes, I meant the "Some history: originally mic was the Moblin Image Creator, this evolved and was renamed mic2 for MeeGo, now the Tizen project is creating another, third, version of mic, but to avoid confusion (!) it will simply be called mic, not mic3. " | 21:56 |
| smoku | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mic_installation - "sudo zypper install mic2" | 21:56 |
| smoku | so, nothing linked on Category:Mic relates to mic (1) | 21:57 |
| lbt | there is no mic(1) | 21:57 |
| smoku | I know the history of mic (1,2,3) | 21:57 |
| lbt | only mic(3) | 21:57 |
| lbt | https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117 | 21:57 |
| smoku | but Category:Mic doesn't help me on building image | 21:57 |
| smoku | so it's even worse | 21:58 |
| smoku | from http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic I got the impression that Mer uses mic1 not mic3 | 21:58 |
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| lbt | smoku: it uses "mic" which has a history - if you know the history you know it's mic3 ... if you don't know then it doesn't matter, it's mic | 22:00 |
| smoku | so, according to MER#117 there is no documentation for mic and I'm on my own, right? :) | 22:00 |
| lbt | from the category page: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners | 22:02 |
| smoku | ok. --help is pretty explanatory | 22:02 |
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| lbt | also the SDK page has some mic content - not sure if it enough for a link to the category - it's kinda incidental | 22:02 |
| lbt | smoku: if you'd like to verify and update the Beginners page with the SDK mic that would be very helpful | 22:03 |
| smoku | lbt: from what I see so far, there's not much to verify. it needs rewriting as mic(3) is completely different | 22:06 |
| lbt | honestly I've not even looked at it for ages | 22:06 |
| smoku | i will try to update it once I get it running | 22:07 |
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| lbt | OK - yell if you need help - as mentioned the SDK page has some getting started stuff too | 22:08 |
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| lbt | smoku: http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Platform_SDK#Building_an_image <-- there | 22:24 |
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| smoku | lbt: thanks :) | 22:25 |
| smoku | but I already bootet freshly built cordia on my ideapad :D | 22:26 |
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| lbt | :) | 22:26 |
| smoku | mic3 is cool :) | 22:26 |
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| smoku | and it works :D | 22:31 |
| smoku | installer-shell didn't add itself to the usb boot menu. any idea why? | 22:36 |
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| lbt | no | 22:38 |
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| lbt | is that in the syslinux part? | 22:40 |
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| smoku | yes. i have only boot from usb and boot from hdd options. | 22:42 |
| CosmoHill | cyas | 22:42 |
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| smoku | adding installer-shell used to add third option 'install to hdd' | 22:43 |
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| lbt | Mer tends not to use syslinux much - mainly do image generation | 22:44 |
| smoku | maybe it's a difference between mic 2 and 3 | 22:44 |
| vgrade2 | smoku, that function has been broken for a while, you used to be able to drop into a shell and run installer-shell but I've seen reports that that is also broken. Sage was looking at changing the x86 adaptation packages | 22:47 |
| smoku | vgrade2: it worked on 20111018 (previous time I was building cordia images) | 22:48 |
| vgrade2 | yea things broke at some stage so you had to call the installer-shell from VT2 | 22:49 |
| vgrade2 | as I say Sage was looking at it at the end of last week | 22:49 |
| smoku | should I bug him, or just wait? | 22:50 |
| vgrade2 | https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178 refers | 22:51 |
| vgrade2 | he was looking for hands last week | 22:51 |
| vgrade2 | did you try invoking from a shell? | 22:52 |
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| smoku | nope | 22:56 |
| smoku | looks like working | 22:56 |
| smoku | yup. installing on vty2 | 22:57 |
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| smoku | so it just needs bootmenu entry | 22:57 |
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| smoku | I see the bootmenu entry is disabled on purpose | 22:58 |
| smoku | installed fine | 22:59 |
| smoku | :D it boots to hildon-desktop in like 100 seconds :) | 23:00 |
| smoku | 10 I mean :) | 23:00 |
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