Monday, 2012-04-23

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rrixX-Fade: lbt: can I have a COBS account? my meego account is rrix00:11
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: out of curiousity, how did you branch?05:14
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Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, I added the Mer_Extras_armv7l repo and gave it a new target name.05:15
Alison_ChaikenSo I think that branched it?05:15
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Alison_ChaikenI am, ahem, learning to use OBS still.05:16
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: yeah, just wondered how the 'patchinfo' came about :)05:16
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html might be of use - FreeMind .mm is on OBS.mm05:17
Stskeepsthat's an export of most of my obs knowledge05:17
Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, I assumed that my commit from my localhost of the new kernel config file created the patch, but maybe not.05:17
Alison_ChaikenWill look, thanks.05:17
Alison_ChaikenIn my past OBS attempts, I spent a whole day reading docs and working on tutorial and then got pulled off on another project.05:18
Stskeeps:nod:05:18
Alison_ChaikenThis time I decided on opposite approach!05:18
Alison_ChaikenBetter to go in and break stuff first.   Helps figure out which part of docs are pertinent.05:18
Alison_ChaikenNice diagram.    Is that graphviz or dia?05:19
Stskeepsflash, generated by freemind mindmap tool05:20
Stskeepscould also have been svg05:20
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Stskeepsclick the circles with small circles on the side to expand terms, a lot of gold hidden :)05:20
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rrixIs there any way to build RPMs for the device without COBS access?05:21
Stskeepsrrix: that's what we're brewing on with sb2 part of platform sdk05:22
Stskeepshello antarn :)05:22
Stskeepsrrix: you can also do --preload and then later --offline for specific packages05:22
antarnHi Stskeeps05:22
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Stskeepsantarn: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?05:22
antarnStskeeps: Just wanted to see what's up whit this project.05:23
Stskeepsantarn: alright :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask, else feel free to just hang out05:23
rrixStskeeps: I suppose Ill just wait for lbt or X-Fade to wake up ;)05:23
Stskeepsrrix: yeah, probably best05:23
antarnStskeeps: thanks05:23
* rrix has ts_srv working, but it's still not kicking on, need to verify my service is actually starting and whatnot05:24
rrixAnd if, when I get COBS access, I can reenable multitouch readout from the driver, since it wouldn't build without certain packages locally05:24
StskeepsSage: i think we're good for trying out 0.3 today05:27
Stskeepsand see if images build05:27
Stskeepsif you're not travelling, that is05:27
E-Pmorning05:33
Stskeepsmorn E-P05:33
StskeepsE-P: just some input to testing process, working on placing source packages into architecture, http://pastie.org/383745405:40
Stskeeps /Build/* is to be mostly ignored as it isn't part of run-time architecture05:40
Stskeepsthe rule is that if the content in architectual domain is the only user of a package, the package gets into that architectual domain05:41
E-PStskeeps: that is good info when creating and mapping tests05:41
Stskeepsthe idea is that the architecture will mostly self-document, so you can pull up dependency graphs for any image05:42
Stskeepsand this info being part of the packages themselves05:42
E-PI wrote one draft about the mapping, it is a bit different what we talked about05:44
E-Phttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Talk:Quality/Test_processes05:44
E-Pis is based on similar syntax what we used in internal automation05:45
Stskeepsand graphics, too :)05:45
Stskeeps:nod: and it being YAML helps05:45
E-PI like to draw graphics, usually they explain more than the words :)05:45
Stskeepseasy to script with05:45
E-Pbasically that kind of configuration would create test plans for all supported devices in the automation05:47
Stskeepslooks cool05:48
Stskeepswould be interesting to see it from inverted perspective, ie, where we give a template and vendors can inherit from those for their own device tests05:48
E-Pyep05:50
Kaadlajktestplanner in that picture != testplanner UI kyösti made?05:51
E-PKaadlajk: yes, not the same testplanner05:51
Stskeepsperhaps a better name would be test execution planner ish?05:51
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E-Ptrue, I will change it05:52
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dm8tbrgood moaning from Warsaw06:00
Stskeepsmorn dm8tbr, horrible weather here today06:00
dm8tbrindeed06:00
dm8tbrI waiteted inside the outfield shuttle for the gangway to clear before speeding into the aircraft ;)06:01
dm8tbron the flight from POZ they said something about good weather but slight rain. liars...06:01
dm8tbrah, last pax got shuttled in. time to close up06:02
SageStskeeps: well I'm at Tampere today but I can probably build images for test though06:03
Stskeepsok06:03
Stskeepsdm8tbr: cya06:03
dm8tbrttfn06:03
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Stskeeps\o/ phaeron07:07
phaeronhey :)07:08
Stskeepsglad to see you're fine :)07:08
androidGood mornong all07:08
phaeronBack in .fi07:08
Stskeepsgood morning android07:08
androidoh cripes, Im still android07:08
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phaeronStskeeps: thanks07:08
Stskeepsjussi: i was thinking you'd get a massive amounts of bad highlights :)07:08
jussiStskeeps: I do :P07:09
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Stskeepsphaeron: can we schedule a 20 min Q&A for copy-project at the release meeting tomorrow? (i don't want to burden you on the first day you're back)07:17
phaeronAhh yeah sure.07:18
Stskeepsalright07:18
* phaeron picks up old notes 07:18
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Stskeepsgood morning sonach07:44
sonachmorning, Stskeeps07:44
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Stskeepsmorn Attie07:53
Attiemorning07:54
Attiegood weekend?07:54
Stskeepswas okay, didn't get to hack terribly much07:54
Attieheh, me either07:54
sonachStskeeps: We have disscussed nfs,ping,etc. on Mer, these commands can not run directly. But if I add "busybox" before this commands, they all works well:)07:56
Stskeepssonach: interesting07:57
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Attiewrong path / missing symlinks?07:57
StskeepsAttie: /sbin/ping saying 'permission denied'07:57
Stskeepswhich is kinda bizarre07:57
Attieodd07:57
Attieis that a symlink to bb?07:57
Stskeepsnop07:57
Attieoh, what is it?07:58
Stskeepssonach: i presume your kernel/setup doesn't have anything with POSIX capabilities07:58
StskeepsAttie: standard net-tools(i think)07:58
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Attierighto07:58
sonachStskeeps: I don't quite sure about this,07:58
Attiei assume you've checked the permissions and that its compiled for the correct arch?07:58
Stskeepssonach: well, if you don't think you're using it then you're probably not :)07:59
Attieand correct libs07:59
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sonachStskeeps: the kernel package was copied from hisilicon, so we don't pay much attention to all of its options,08:00
Stskeepsyeah, i wonder too08:03
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lbtmorning all08:04
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:04
lbtrrix: done :)08:04
Stskeepslbt: did you have any custom generate-obs-package-from-git scripts?08:04
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lbtStskeeps: yes08:05
Stskeepscould i have them? needed for one of my week's tasks08:06
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lbtbased on phaeron's script but still quite personal - will pastie08:06
lbthttp://pastie.org/383786808:07
lbtso it just gets an obs project ready for an osc ar/ci08:08
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Stskeepswhere did we have instructions on how to set up a 'mer' obs?08:09
lbtmmm08:09
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lbthttps://github.com/lbt/obs-setup combined with wiki page08:09
Stskeepsok08:10
Stskeepswhat wiki page, specifically08:10
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup08:10
Stskeepsok08:10
lbtthat script should fully replace the steps - it's supposed to be 'readable'08:11
sonachlbt: When I do "./mer-sdk-chroot umount", it reports: There appears to be 1 chroot(s) still using this SDK. But in fact no one is using it. what's the problem?08:11
Stskeepslbt: readable like perl, or readable like a book..08:11
Termanalol08:12
lbtStskeeps: they're different?08:12
* Stskeeps nods08:12
lbtsonach: what that does is write something like a pid file08:12
lbtif you shutdown without a umount it doesn't clean up08:12
lbtit would be sensible to add a check to say "this pid no longer exists" ... patches welcome :)08:13
lbt-> coffee ...bbiab08:13
sonachlbt: Is there any way to solve this problem?08:13
sonachlbt: If I don't want to restart the server.08:14
byakoMorning. Any ideas why I can't see files of an installed package during the build on COBS ?08:15
Stskeepsbyako: does these files happen to be in /usr/src >08:15
Stskeeps?08:15
byakoyep08:15
byakodid I miss the FAQ section ?08:15
Stskeepsbyako: no, you're just good at hitting known bugs that's getting fixed in the release we're putting out atm (in last prerelease phase) :)08:16
Stskeepssec08:16
byako:) yes, normally it's about me :) I like finding bugs..08:17
Stskeepsbyako: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23508:17
byakoStskeeps: thanks08:17
rrixlbt: <308:17
E-Psonach: you can remove the pid file under the .active_chroots folder08:17
E-Pthe .active_chroots folder is in the root of the SDK chroot08:18
byakoha man, no workaround ? only local build with manual patching? Oh, how i _love_ this08:19
Stskeepsbyako: the workaround is adding Core-next in COBS08:19
rrixlbt: I take it login is with the same details as my meego.com?08:19
byakoStskeeps: you mean substituting the core-fake with core-next andn rebuilding all packages ?08:19
Stskeepsbyako: Mer:fake:Core -> Mer:fake:Core-next08:20
byakoStskeeps: will try.08:20
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lbtsonach: have a look in the $sdkroot/.active_chroots/ directory08:22
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lbtfiles matching pids that don't exist can be removed08:22
lbtE-P: thanks - missed that :)08:23
lbtrrix: yes, login is the same08:23
rrixkiller :)08:23
rrixinstead of going to bed, I shall upload this pacakage08:23
lbtexcellent idea08:23
lbtwatching uploading packages beats counting sheep anytime08:24
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Stskeepslbt: have we modified the packaging of obs-server itself, or is it == upstream, plus our script's changes?08:33
lbtit's modified lightly08:34
lbtiirc it's just filename type things08:34
Stskeepsok08:34
lbtmmm08:36
lbtlooks like they've drifted08:36
Stskeepsi'll start work to validate b1-systems' cross work with new obs patches, so08:37
Stskeepsand dump sb2 stuff on top08:37
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lbt*nod* .... taking denise to train station ... bbi ~30m08:37
timophStskeeps: testrunner-ui with the ability to set the used privete ssh key currently building in my obs home project08:40
Stskeepstimoph: cool08:40
timoph(not tested yet)08:40
E-Pnice08:40
timophI'll push the changes back to upstream's master after that is verified to work08:41
timophat least it compiled :)08:41
timophit doesn't currently check if the provided file actually exists08:43
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timophplanning to add things like that later08:44
sonachlbt: nothing under .active_chroots,08:46
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timophalso I'm planning to start doing general usabity improvements to it after the devaamo summit things calm down08:46
E-Ptimoph: did you notice my merge request to Mer gerrit?08:46
sonachlbt: there is a file called 971608:47
sonachlbt: delete this file?08:47
timophE-P: seems like I didn't :)08:47
E-Psonach: does that process exist?08:47
sonachE-P: no,08:48
E-Ptimoph: I just added tr-lite and definition to mer git, just a sec08:48
E-Psonach: then you can remove the file08:48
sonachOK,08:48
E-Ptimoph: http://review.merproject.org/#change,534 and http://review.merproject.org/#change,53508:48
E-Ptimoph: those are direct copies from the Mer:Tools:Testing08:49
byakoStskeeps: that's weird. In advanced repo add interface only Core-next projects are home ones. At the same time manually modifying meta config mer:fake:core -> mer:fake:core-next works pretty well08:49
Stskeepsbyako: yes, OBS cannot browse across remote links08:49
Stskeepsbyako: there's reasons for why Mer:fake is a remote link, which makes sense when you look at it from a product angle :)08:50
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timophE-P: hmmh. not sure what I'm supposed to do with it :)08:52
timopham I a reviewer for it=08:52
timoph?08:52
Stskeepswhen lbt comes back we should ask the tactic for tools08:52
E-Pok08:52
timophmy gerrit-fu is not that strong08:53
timophneed to see how that thing actually works and is used08:53
Termanalbt, is mer-sdk-chroot run as root? I'm trying to change the script so that it will not just check if the process is still running but also if the process is still using a file within $sdkroot08:53
Termana(neither of which it does currently), also - is this: https://github.com/lbt/sdk-kickstarter-configs/blob/master/mer-sdk-chroot the current version?08:54
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smokuTermana: it isn't. it uses sudo inside when it needs root rights08:58
Stskeepswe do mer-sdk-chroot as root though08:59
Stskeepsand switch to user inside08:59
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lbtTermana: Stskeeps: line 74 :  exec sudo $0 "$@"   it checks to see if it's invoked as a user and if so execs as root09:04
lbtif the "exec sudo" fails it warns09:04
lbttimoph: we haven't established any meaningful process for the tools space. The one we used in Nokia became ridiculously heavy09:06
timophyeah09:07
sonachlbt: Have you ever configured NFS server of OpenSUSE 11.4? It doesn't work on my server,09:07
timophoverengineered paranoid processes are fun09:07
lbtOne big issue is that we had fairly heavy and constant development of some code - and gerrit is great for sporadic patches but not to share 15 changes a day over 5 packages with known issues but which are needed for team collaboration09:07
lbtsonach: "doesn't work" ?09:08
sonachlbt: Yes. On another computer, I do 'mount' and no reponse,09:09
lbtanything in the server nfs logs?09:09
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sonachhmm, where is the log?09:09
lbtis nfs running? suse doesn't start services automatically like debian does09:10
lbtyou need to chkconfig or systemctl enable them09:10
lbtsuse .... probably syslog09:10
lbttimoph: I think we may need a more githubby (*sigh*) approach to collaboration for development - then relate gerrit merges to success in some OBS project staging area09:11
lbtso that request should probably be built in cobs (but we should still do the CI thing on it) and should have been discussed with the some Tools team maintainer09:13
lbt(which it probably was)09:13
rrixsilly question, but what should I be using for CC in my makefiles and specs?09:13
rrix$CC rather09:13
lbtrrix: look at a similar package :)09:14
* rrix was using arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc but that's not a thing, it seems09:14
rrixpffft :)09:14
Stskeepsdon't touch CC, just use gcc09:14
rrixok09:14
Stskeepswe take care of making it a cross compile gcc transparently09:14
rrixcool09:14
rrixthat was my question, I guess :)09:14
timophlbt: I'm pretty much ok with any process as long as it is straightforward and not too complicated09:15
Stskeepswe agreed that you'd probably do the actual tools development in some upstream?09:16
* timoph wants to see contibuting being easy09:16
Stskeepsor how was it09:16
timophyeah09:16
Stskeepsand mer was integration09:16
timophthat's what I'm doing09:16
timophin practise my current workflow is: 1) fix it in upstream git 2) build it against Mer in my obs home09:17
timophafter that it gets blurry to me09:17
* timoph phone. brb09:18
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lbttimoph: so it depends on interactions with other packages09:18
lbtI don't know what exactly should be in Mer:Tools - 'current stable' (since we seem to use it as an install target)09:21
lbtso Mer:Tools:Testing would be approved trunk/RC09:21
lbts/approved/qa'ed/09:22
Stskeepsshould we have emacs in Mer:Tools? (discussion question)09:22
Stskeepsat least :Tools should be more liberal than mer core09:22
rrixemacs isn't a tool :P09:22
* rrix runs away09:22
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lbtyes, it should - but I'm tempted to go for 'utils' - Tools is supported09:22
lbtand I'm not supporting emacs *g*09:23
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lbtcarrying on - Mer:Tools:Testing:Devel would be pre-qa area for integration and build testing09:24
lbtit's OK to break builds in there but rude not to fix it PDQ09:25
lbtand if you're not sure, build in home/locally first09:25
* lbt will try to obey his own rules there too09:25
lbtinstalling from :Devel is asking for trouble09:25
* lbt notes meego cobs is installed from :Devel right now09:26
E-Plbt: if the package is built in the home, can it be SR directly to Mer:Tools:Testing?09:26
lbtgood question09:26
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lbtI would like it if our process could do a BDC build and verify prior to accept09:27
Stskeepslbt: is the goal eventually do do :Tools with a mer CI like process?09:27
Stskeepsjust thinking ahead09:27
lbtyes09:27
Stskeepsok09:27
E-Plbt: BDC build?09:28
lbtbuild depencency check09:29
StskeepsDBC == dependency build check -- ie, integration testing, does this package break other packages09:29
lbtoh, DBC ... right :)09:29
E-Pok :)09:29
lbtE-P: I just call it a CI build09:29
lbtthen people say "CI?"09:29
sonachlbt: I shutdown the firewall and restart nfs server, it works, thank you:)09:29
E-Plbt: I have also wonder your CI term time to time :)09:30
rrixUgh, this build is confusing me. I have something using %{buildroot}, and it works on one line, but fails on the next09:30
lbtsonach: great :)  suse fw is a monster if you're not familiar09:30
Stskeepsrrix: build log = ?09:30
rrixhttps://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=ts-srv-tenderloin&project=home%3Arrix&repository=Mer_Core_armv7hl09:30
lbtE-P: continuous integration ....09:30
rrixidk if that's linkable09:30
rrixI can pastebin09:30
Stskeepsit is09:31
Stskeeps%{buildroot}09:31
Stskeepsnot ${buildroot}09:31
rrixderp09:31
rrixwow09:31
* Stskeeps takes rrix's fedora badge away09:31
rrixOkay, i'm going to bed :)09:31
* lbt points and laughs :)09:31
rrixStskeeps: But I need that for, like, both of the packages I still maintain!09:31
Stskeepshehe09:31
* rrix adds "update fedora stuff" to his todo list for tomorrow09:31
lbtooh ... release notes09:32
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rrixSince you're going to take my badge away :P09:32
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rrixStskeeps: Can I just say how much nicer xen-based builds are than koji ones?09:32
Stskeepswe can do kvm too ;)09:32
rrixooh :)09:33
rrixkvm ftw, of course ;)09:33
lbtnot as much as you'd like09:33
E-Pback to the tools development, after the package is ok in the OBS, then updating the src to mer git?09:35
lbtyes, I think so09:37
E-Ptimoph: I think if we need to make mer specified changes to qa-tools, we can have own branch for that in gitorious09:37
timophE-P: yep or if it's totally mer specific like eat I'd have it all together in mer's git09:38
lbtE-P: I plan to make the mer-tools git a mirror of upstream with mer-specific patches applied to a release branch09:38
E-Ptimoph: yes09:38
timophnotice that I didn't move eat anywhere from the meego git09:38
timophwhat kind of changes are actually needed?09:39
timophnaming? paths?09:39
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lbttimoph: me? none yet as far as I know09:39
E-Plbt: then we could use the same git for qa tools too?09:39
E-Pif we have mer specified changes09:39
lbtit's more a matter of access and how we control commits to gerrit09:40
timophI'd like to make the tools highly configurable during build time to mach a user's need09:40
lbtI honestly don't know if gerrit can handle it09:40
timophthings like test-definition that has links the bug tracker, etc.09:40
lbtStskeeps: http://pastie.org/3838181 release notes... comments?09:40
Stskeepswhere's the changelog?09:41
timophso in the best case there woudn't be a need to host/maintain a separate version of a tool09:41
lbtreload - was just doing the blurb - clog is same with rpm note09:41
rrixit's alliiiiiive :)09:41
E-Ptimoph: that is good approach09:41
Stskeepslbt: last (full) release09:42
E-Ptimoph: mainly if we have something, hopefully not09:42
timophE-P: yeah. that would also encourage more collaboration with the upstream project09:42
lbttimoph: yep - those can go in packaging which I plan to keep as a discrete git tree inside mer git09:43
lbtStskeeps: ok - anything else?09:43
timophlbt: exactly09:43
Stskeepslbt: ok09:43
timophrequires a bit of work in the upstream but imo worth the effort09:44
Stskeepsalso, consider doing tarball releases..09:44
timophgood point09:46
E-Phow about tools like qa-reports, we have to changes the src a bit (naming, links etc) and its not a package in the OBS09:46
timophtrue09:46
lbt*mumble* tarballs suck09:46
Stskeepstemplate selection?09:46
E-Pstill having the changed version in the mer git or only in the mer-tools git?09:46
Stskeepslbt: yeah, but keep in mind they also want to be used outside mer09:46
lbthttps://github.com/lbt/mic/tags09:47
lbtremote git archive of a tag09:47
lbtjust document it as "tarballs available like this..."09:48
lbtsha1 is as crypto-strong as the md5 on a tarball and if you want to archive it yourself for later verification then feel free09:48
timophno need to decide that process now. although it is something to be considered after we get thins properly rolling forward09:49
lbt*g*09:49
Stskeepslbt: you've obviously never had gitorious refuse to give you a tarball09:49
Stskeeps:P09:49
lbtStskeeps: well, yeah....09:49
timoph"This is just to let you know that your presentation proposal has been received. We will review all submissions and inform you within the next couple of weeks whether yours has been accepted."09:49
timophabout the Mer BoF in devaamo summit09:50
timophfyi09:50
lbtdammit ...09:50
Stskeepsthat's normal09:50
E-Ptimoph: so for now we can make fixes to upstream, and then packaging them in the OBS and SR them to Mer:Tools:Testing and then to Mer:Tools?09:52
lbtwe need a place to release them too - OBS isn't great at that09:53
E-Ptrue09:53
lbtmainly for getting reliable copies of old versions for things like SDK09:54
E-Pyes09:55
timophE-P: btw, have you tried using jenkins/hudson with tr-lite?09:57
E-Ptimoph: no I haven't09:57
timophjust though it might be an interesting experiment09:58
timophand worth documenting09:58
* timoph makes a note to try that later10:00
E-Pyes if someone doesn't want to use OTS for execution10:00
timophyeps10:00
timophit's much simpler to take into use10:00
timophif it only was implemented using someting else than java...10:01
Stskeepsgerrit's java too :P10:01
* timoph shivers10:01
rrixy10:02
rrixYou're not my terminal10:02
timoph:)10:02
Stskeepslbt: do you have weird issues with the opensuse themes & your script?10:08
lbtgit submodule update ?10:08
Stskeepslbt: seems like there's bits and pieces missing for an 'empty' GITDIR10:10
Stskeepshow are we supposed to get themes? :P10:10
lbtgit submodule init ?10:11
Stskeepsokay, but the script doesn't add a submodule anywhere10:11
Stskeepsit seems10:11
Stskeeps.. i would think10:11
lbtno, I probably already had that10:12
Stskeepshow do i set that up then?10:12
lbtgit submodule init :   should work (in the open-build-service git repo10:12
lbtthere should be a .gitmodule file10:13
lbtlike I said, this is very much a personal file so far - just to be able to reproduce release steps from git10:15
Stskeepsok10:16
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phaeronI think the theme was split out to a separate git10:23
phaerongit://github.com/openSUSE/opensuse-themes.git10:23
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Stskeepshello zeq :)10:24
zeqHi10:24
Stskeepswelcome - so what brings you here to #mer? :)10:25
phaeronStskeeps: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_Build the script there generates the themes tarball10:25
zeqI was wondering what was going on in these parts :)10:26
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Stskeepszeq: sure :) if you have any questions, feel free to ask, else feel free to hang out and learn :)10:26
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zeqI've been hacking on mobile linux devices for a while10:27
zeqZaurii, N900 etc10:27
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lbtzeq: ah - my zaurus is sitting right next to me on shelf10:29
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zeqI can see mine looking rather dusty not too far away10:29
Stskeepszeq: where did you hear about us, out of curiousity?10:29
Stskeepsphaeron: ta for the link10:29
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zeqWell, I hang around on #maemo occasionly, and I've been follow the Meego saga, hoping for another device to move onto eventually10:31
Stskeepsalright :)10:31
Stskeepswe're mostly doing core work here, but others are working on devices (hardware adaptations) and ui (plasma active, nemo, etc)10:31
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zeqI'm primarily a Gentoo dev10:33
Stskeeps:nod: we feel we have something interesting for mobile cores here at least10:33
zeqbut I do a little kernel hacking and core system work10:33
lbt*cough* core + systems :)10:34
zeqI dabble all over basically :)10:34
lbtalways useful10:34
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zeq[OT] I'm currently getting Gentoo x32 up and running10:36
zeqI did the same for ARM EABI way back when10:37
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zeqmight well have had the first full ARM EABI distribution10:39
lbtwell, we handle a variety of architectures now10:44
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lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_architecture_naming10:45
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zeqwrt the architecture names, I've wondered why the ssse3 target was called "i586"?10:48
Stskeepsbecause someone somewhere thought it was a very good idea, while it was a very very bad idea10:49
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Stskeepsi've considered to have it be 'atom' or likes instead, but nowadays, amd bulldozer can do ssse3 too10:50
zeqatom would have certainly made more sense10:50
zeq:)10:50
Stskeepsit's inherited from meego this way, but adding new rpm archs isn't always trivial10:50
zeqI actually liked Meego Netbook  because it was one of the few (only?) distributions Atom optimized10:51
Stskeepswe have both i486 and 'atom' i58610:52
Stskeepsand use i486 for sdks and such10:52
zeqprobably my Gentoo background making me feel uncomfortable without cpu optimizations ,)10:52
zeq;)10:52
Stskeepshehe ;)10:52
zeqany plans for a x32 port?10:54
Stskeepspossibly, but i'd like to seperate toolchain/core first10:54
Stskeepsdoes x32 put floating point values in some of the proper registers when passing values?10:54
zeqAs far as I know it is identical to amd64 except for pointer length and a few other data structures10:55
zeqthe kernel support is mostly 32bit pointer versions of the amd64 syscalls10:56
zeqthere's draft abi doc here: http://sites.google.com/site/x32abi/documents10:58
Stskeepsah, so x32 doesn't run anywhere but 64-bit?10:58
lbtno10:59
zeqwell, it's 32bit :)10:59
Stskeepsokay, let ask another way..10:59
Stskeepson 64-bit mode cpus10:59
zeqbut needs amd64 capable ahw10:59
zeqhw10:59
Stskeepswould it run on an atom10:59
Stskeeps:P10:59
zeqdepends on the atom10:59
zeqD series10:59
zeqone moment11:00
Stskeepsok, so it might be relevant to tablets11:00
Stskeepsi think you just gave me a hint about what some people at intel are brewing on :)11:01
zeqD and N (except N2xx) series support it Z series don't11:01
zeqit's certain worth having on tablets11:02
Stskeeps:nod:11:02
zeqx86 like code density with *much* higher performance11:03
zeqparticularly with pointer heavy code11:03
Stskeepsone of the things i'm brewing on is a different approach to mobile cores, where we essentially seperate into a 'toolchain' and a core, where core doesn't have to be self-hosted11:03
lbtiirc x32 is 32bit userspace with an API to allow the kernel to make use of 64bit instructions11:03
Stskeepsbut where we can do it with the ease of doing .spec files and work as we usually do11:04
Stskeepswithout having to really adjust our methods11:04
lbttimoph: ping11:04
Stskeepswhere our target starts out as bare11:04
Stskeepsalready had a proof of concept going11:04
zeqibt: x32 is a native amd64 userspace, with full support for 64bit data registers and instructions, PC relative addressing etc, but only 32-bit address space per app11:06
zeqStskeeps: I'm not sure I entirely follow, you mean separating the toolchain from the rest of the SDK?11:09
Stskeepszeq: think a target where you don't even have to compile bash for, while still being able to build software for cross target like you were building natively11:10
Stskeepsit's a bit of a mix of cross gentoo and our existing mer stuff11:10
zeqokay, that sounds similar to how I brought ARM EABI up on Gentoo11:11
Stskeepsi've done a proof of concept where i was able to build acl, busybox, attr and others on OBS with unmodified .spec files, for an ARM target11:12
zeqOf course once I had it running, I switched to using distcc11:12
Stskeeps:nod:11:12
Stskeepswithout having any tools in my target, ie, no binutils, gcc, bash, groff, whatever11:13
Stskeepsjust in my x86 toolset11:13
Stskeepsand it could run arm binaries too11:13
zeqqemu?11:14
Stskeepswithout any ./configure cross magic11:14
Stskeepsyeah, userland -- it was with a combination of scratchbox2 and some other things11:14
Stskeepsbut that's a future direction.. the idea was to be able to shrink core even deeper down11:14
zeqSounds like a good approach11:15
Stskeepsas we no longer needed self-hosting11:15
Stskeepsand being able to point it at any kind of target11:15
Stskeepsperhaps even bionic11:16
zeqThe differentiating point of mer would seem to be deployment of an optimized core + ui as a functional unit. Much like with SoC.11:17
Stskeepsyeah11:17
Stskeepsand systems on top - we have really good QA tools development, systems (OBS, BOSS), image creators, etc..11:17
Stskeepshttp://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/hostbased.png , http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/output.html etc11:18
zeqI'm a little surprised how relatively little interest there's been from system integrators, unless it's all very hush hush11:20
Stskeepsthere is actually a fair bit of interest11:20
Stskeepswe need to get better at advertising ourselves though11:20
zeqmore or less since Meego's demise? curious.11:21
Stskeepsit's getting better, Vivaldi tablet news also helped a bit11:21
StskeepsMer is a bit dry by itself, but for those who understand the power of it, like it11:21
alteregoMaybe we should think about advertising :)11:21
Stskeepszeq: part of the way we're hoping to break through is by word-of-mouth - nothing's more powerful than an engineer's recommendation to another11:22
Stskeepsif someone has success in making something really cool by mer, they'll pass it on11:22
zeqthat's true :)11:22
Stskeepszeq: are you into UI side too a bit?11:23
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zeqI used to be11:23
* l3i is seeing irony in that something called Mer is also being called "a bit dry"11:24
zeqI've not done anything on that end of things for a while11:24
Stskeepsl3i: ;)11:24
zeq:)11:24
Stskeepsso, give an estimate on how many months it takes to code a traditional homescreen for a mobile device11:24
Stskeepslike, a flashy one11:24
zeqFrom concept?11:24
Stskeepsyeah, let's say from concept11:24
zeqhmmm11:24
zeq3?11:24
Stskeepsokay, now watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM and look at http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qml/11:25
Stskeepsthat's the code that makes that11:25
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zeqthat can't have taken long11:26
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Stskeepslipstick's a homescreen toolkit utilizing qml, the bit that gives you composited windows:  WindowPixmap {11:26
Stskeeps    anchors.fill:preview11:26
zeqThe last time I did serious UI development was on Acorn RISC OS11:26
Stskeeps    windowId: model.windowId11:26
Stskeepsi hope things have improved :)11:26
zeqA lot less programming!11:27
zeqNo need to deal with poll loops ;)11:27
Stskeepsbut it also shows how fast you can do mobile UI these days11:27
zeqMaybe I moved down the stack as things became too easy? :)11:28
Stskeepshehe11:28
Stskeepsi'm fine with being in the engine room too, but i do want to make it a hell lot easier to do mobile for small to medium enterprises11:29
zeqI have to admit I used to code UIs in ARM assembler on the Acorn :)11:29
zeqI completely understand that11:29
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zeqthere's also a lot of productive high level developers11:30
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Stskeepsi'm going to this 2012.front-trends.com conference this week and pondering how to pitch mer in that respect11:30
Stskeepsif anything, i'll learn how the high level people work and think11:31
zeqgoal orientation?11:31
lbtDevaamo CFP response sent: "BOSS: Automating Mer"11:31
Stskeepslbt: good11:32
Stskeepszeq: hm?11:32
zeqhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-oriented11:32
alteregoAh, a fellow Acorn guy :)11:32
zeqGuilty11:33
alteregoWhat machines did you have? I've still git my RPC and A3020 :)11:33
zeqRPC, A3000, BBC B, Electron11:34
alteregostill got those too :)11:34
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alteregoGot probably 2 or three electrons and probably the same count of beebs11:34
zeqMy electron broke, and sadly my B got thrown out11:35
alteregoI was lucky enough to have a dad that worked there whilst I was growing up :)11:35
zeqah nice11:35
alteregoBroke? That's unusual :)11:35
zeqpsu failure11:35
alteregoah lame, could have probably found a spare one for you.11:36
zeqI'm sure most would still work :)11:36
zeqIt did get lots of use!11:36
zeqlearnt to program on it11:36
alteregoNice to hear :)11:37
lbtfyi : http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Donation_Policy11:37
alteregoYeah, me too11:37
lbtcomments on wording welcome11:37
Stskeepslbt: for funding, for the participant's mutual benefit.. or somethingish11:37
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zeqamazing would you could do in under 20kb RAM11:38
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Stskeepsin other news, you can do 'osc getbinaries' in a project11:39
Stskeepsinteresting11:39
lbtosc --help is a mess11:40
lbtI need to re-arrange it by concept11:40
lbt"... for funding the community expenses"11:41
lbt ?11:41
* Stskeeps makes a mental note we really need a statement on what being a co-operative means..11:41
* lbt got frustrated with puppet/nagios and needed to relax11:42
Stskeepslbt: remember the % split between work and fun, else you run out of energy very quickly11:43
Stskeeps:P11:43
* Stskeeps is currently organizing mer work as if he was being paid to work on it, with free time / hobby projects11:43
Stskeepsand i can already feel it helping11:43
lbthehe ... last week or so I spent more time than I thought arranging music - was nice11:44
zeqwho is the Donation Policy aimed at? People/organisations looking to donate, or encouraging donations?11:44
lbtpeople looking to donate11:45
lbtmainly to say "sorry, we can't take ad-hoc hosted servers"11:45
iekkureminder: mer bug triage starting in 15 minutes @ #mer-meeting11:45
lbtzeq: we may need to actually encourage donations at some point too - but that page isn't really it11:45
lbtiekku: ta11:46
lbtiekku: can we make it 11 UTC (as it used to be) in future?11:46
zeqokay, that's how I read it11:46
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iekkulbt, sure11:46
* lbt may have to leave early if Denise's train arrives :)11:46
iekkulbt, there's only 3 bugs11:47
lbtoh, yes I recall it was short this week - random must be on holiday :)11:47
iekkuwont take long :)11:47
lbtwe should do a task and/or bug review too - validate prios11:47
lbtit's been a while11:48
iekku:nod:11:48
iekkuhuh, there's 103 bugs in that list11:49
* lbt goes to prepare coffee with extra shot of espresso11:49
zeqcoffee is a wonderful idea11:50
Stskeepsiekku: we just overview and decide if it makes sense11:50
* zeq goes to grind some beans11:50
lbtzeq: feel free to monitor the triage just FYI too11:50
iekkuStskeeps, ok :)11:51
iekkulet11:51
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iekkujlkag ölg a11:51
zeqthanks for the invite11:51
iekkulet's have that also today if there's enough time11:51
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lbthmmm 22311 shots of coffee..... that's a lot of code!11:56
iekkubug triage starting soon11:59
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E-Pl3i: I have already forgot the <environments> element, how it was used?12:34
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l3iE-P: Actually it was used a very long time ago, I guess it hasn't basically been used for anything lately12:34
l3iE-P: There was a time when you could run some tests in Scratchbox12:35
l3iE-P: but later that was abandoned12:35
E-Pl3i: ok, now I remember something like that12:35
l3iE-P: But maybe it could be "reused" (if there's a proper reason)12:35
E-Pyep, I agree12:36
E-Pmainly for chroot tests12:36
l3iE-P: Yes, maybe12:36
E-Pmy idea is that the test doesn't care about that, it should be handled in the higher level, in the test planning12:37
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l3iE-P: I'd also not make the test itself use it12:38
E-Ptest packages just provides test cases and in the higher level we can map them to release testing or nightly testing12:38
l3iE-P: yep, sounds better12:38
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l3iE-P: but the test package itself could (and maybe should) contain some level of information about in what kind of environment the tests are designed to be used in12:39
lbtl3i: yes,  how does test-planner know what the test needs?12:39
l3iE-P: Maybe the package metadata itself could be a better place for some of that type of info, than the test XML. Not all the info should be only available in some external mapping file or such12:40
lbtthe test plan says what should be run - but how can you make a test plan without somehow knowing which tests are sane in (say) a chroot?12:40
l3ilbt: Why not just have a separate test package for separate environment?12:40
l3ilbt: Maybe using same dependencies for actual code etc., but still having a separate test definition12:41
lbtyou could have 20 tests in a package, 15 OK in chroots, 5 not12:41
lbteg some need a network12:41
l3ilbt: You could have for instance one "test code package" and three environment-dependent metapackages with the test definitions for different environments (which would bring in the test code as a package dependency)12:42
l3ilbt: But again, you'd need to have the mapping between environment -> test metadata package somewhere12:43
l3iNot sure what would be the best place.. haven't thought very far12:43
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lbtI would like to master the data in a sane place and extract it to use externally12:44
l3iAnd well, if you created a separate test metadata package for each combination of say (network yes/no, chroot yes/no, ...) that would possibly be a lot of packages...12:44
lbtthe key for me is where is the master and how do you version control it12:44
lbtdoes the meta need to be vc'ed discrete from the tests?12:45
l3ilbt: No, it doesn't need to, but in some cases it might be feasible to use the packaging directly to select tests12:45
l3iAnd in general I'd prefer separating test definitions from test code anyway12:45
l3iThat way the test code is more easily reusable12:46
lbt*nod*12:46
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l3iYou can also have a single test definition which uses test code from different code packages12:46
l3ietc.12:46
E-P+112:47
lbthmm12:47
E-PI had similar idea in MeeGo12:47
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E-Phttp://wiki.meego.com/User:Esmietti#1._Not_designed_to_be_a_test_plan12:47
lbtmaybe I need to look closer at the content - I'm not sure how you could change the environment needs of a test code without changing the code12:47
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l3ilbt: Well, you can have both code that has special requirements and code that hasn't, in same code package..12:48
E-Pl3i: that was one idea how to link multiple test packages to one definition12:48
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lbtyes, that's fine12:48
lbtI assume the metadat is at the test level, not the package level12:49
lbtit kinda has to be12:49
l3iE-P: Ah, ok, so the idea was to be able to "include" test definitions themselves12:49
E-Pl3i: kind of12:49
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E-Plbt: yes, it should be12:50
* lbt kinda thinks of tests like libraries... metadata like header files and a test plan is like C code...12:50
l3iE-P: Actually sounds somewhat too complex, is my first reaction.. but I'll need to read through12:50
lbtinstalling a lib doesn't mean you run all functions.... headers say what they do and the test plan calls the functions12:50
E-Pl3i: don't read :) it was meant for pointing out that creating real test plans with definition was hard12:50
E-Plbt: that would good idea12:51
E-Ptest packages would provides tools for testing12:51
E-Pand in the metafile the required packages are defined12:51
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l3iE-P: Ok.. :)12:52
lbtI tend to think we should avoid discussing 'packages'12:52
lbtthat's a solution for delivering tests to rootfs/images12:53
E-Plbt: long history with that naming :)12:53
lbt*nod* ... it feels like it should be the servant, not the master in our design discussions12:53
E-Pi would also like to separate the testing tools to host and device12:54
E-Peg. when testing USB mass storage, some steps are executed on the host side and some are in the device side12:54
E-Pand both might need different set of tools12:54
lbtfor sure - again, you can keep a single git repo/tarball and split the installation if you like12:54
l3iE-P: +112:54
E-Ptr-lite is now days used mainly in the host side and steps are executed remotely12:55
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lbtso... back to metadata ... what is in a test's metadata?12:55
Stskeepsah, so tr-lite isn't required on-device?12:55
E-PStskeeps: no12:55
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l3iE-P: Definitely agree that running steps on different sides should be supported. But actually also the "event system" that was in the plans earlier is something that I'd like to have seen implemented already12:56
Stskeepsok12:56
E-Pl3i: agree12:57
E-Plbt: how the test's metadata differs from the test-definition?12:58
lbtmaybe....12:58
E-Pif the test definition would be just a file, not in the test package12:58
lbttest-definition != test plan ?12:58
E-Ptrue, test-definition describes tests and how to execute tests12:59
lbtso that's more than a test definition12:59
lbtmmm12:59
lbtso that's more than just test metadata12:59
lbtie it contains data about a collection of tests13:00
E-Pin the test-definition, one test has steps which are basically command line commands13:00
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E-PI would keep the test metadata and how to execute the test in a same place, example in the test-definition13:02
lbtOK - but one test definition : one test13:02
l3ilbt: So what would you consider as test metadata in this context?13:02
lbtl3i: keeping it vague "What's needed to run the test"13:02
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E-Plbt: maybe set of tests, somehow related to each other13:03
l3ilbt: Can't be very vague in case the info also needs to be used to automatically do some decisions13:03
lbtl3i: sorry, the definition is vague for now13:03
lbtwe then clarify ...13:03
l3ilbt: yes of course13:04
lbteg it needs a thing to test - so probably a package13:04
l3ilbt: Or several packages13:04
E-Pyes13:04
lbtwell13:04
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l3ian integration test for instance would normally test several components13:05
E-Pand what packages to device and what packages to host :)13:05
lbtyes13:05
l3iOr the combination of those actually13:05
lbtE-P: hold that thought for now13:05
E-P:)13:05
lbtstill keeping it vague "What's needed *in the test environment* to run the test"13:06
l3iE-P: best to not mix the dependencies of the tests and the components that they are testing.. those are not always 1 to 113:06
E-Pyou are right13:07
lbtthen if the test environment needs "tcp connection to HTTP server" the test planner needs to arrange this13:07
l3iE-P: Although of course all the dependencies can still affect test results... even if they're not something the test is designed to test as such13:07
lbtI assume no tests depend on other tests?13:08
l3ilbt: I'd also assume that13:08
l3ilbt: If there are such dependencies, the tests are badly designed in my opinion13:08
l3iusually at least that would be the case13:09
lbt(I can see arguments against - but we can note as an assumption)13:09
E-Plbt: we had in maemo and meego that if test needed a network connection, it was part of the test13:09
E-Pbut I like the idea that we have "general commands" like setup 3g network13:10
l3iE-P: "General commands" available to whom/what?13:10
E-Pl3i: we had a common library for such commands in mwts13:11
lbtE-P: I'd say that falls into metadata - needs 3g HW13:11
lbtwhich may actually just be "device"13:11
E-Plbt: yep, and then we would have another tests or command what would setup the connection13:12
lbtyep - tests depending on reusable libraries is sane13:12
E-Poh.. so late already, I have to run13:12
lbtregression checks when the lib changes... ouch13:12
lbtE-P: thanks ... o/13:13
E-PI try to write our ideas to wiki and let's continue discussion13:13
lbtso I think "test metadata" should be stuff about the individual test13:13
E-Pwe are going to right direction13:13
lbtand I feel that it's version controlled alongside (inside) the test code itself13:14
lbtsure it may need extracting to a database or something to be used... that's OK13:14
l3ilbt: Extracting whenever the metadata changes in version control shouldn't be a big deal..?13:15
lbtno13:15
l3ilbt: But I agree that the place (and versioning) for that metadata should normally be the same as for the "actual test"13:16
lbtand we've looked at things like : steps to run tests, dependencies (HW, test utility libraries, test data, target being tested, test harness needed), description (I assume)13:16
lbtsome may be the same for all tests in a tarball of "actual tests" - but database do repetition well :)13:17
lbtwould be good to try to list what else is in metadata (and what's not)13:17
lbttest order isn't (IMHO) in metadata13:18
lbtnor is "package to be installed on host" ... (?)13:18
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lbtI would like some relationship to a BUG, FEA or architectural component13:19
Aarddoes your wife approve?13:20
Stskeeps(we don't have a featurezilla atm..)13:20
lbts/a/none, one or more/13:20
lbtAard: she's very progressive13:20
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lbtStskeeps: design ready for if/when we do - and even if we don't, vendors will13:21
Stskeepspl13:21
Stskeepsok13:21
* lbt grins at poland being OK+113:21
l3ilbt: Test order should not matter from the test's point of view, if iall the tests are properly designed. So that's something depending more on which test results we want first etc. - nothing to do with the actual test directky13:23
lbtyep - so hints to help us order them would be nice13:23
lbthence my suggestion about running time13:23
lbtor even something like "fails easily"13:24
l3ilbt: Well, at least we should run some quick tests that give basic info of the state of "big blocks" first. Also to determine if there's a point to run subsequent tests at all13:24
lbtyep - so the trick is undestanding how you make that call13:24
l3ilbt: yep..13:24
lbtand providing enough hints in metadata to get a "good enough" approximation13:25
l3ilbt: I don't think the metadata associated with a test itself can give very much info for those purposes, as you must also know the context to decide13:25
lbtmmm13:26
l3ilbt: The metadata can tell how the test is like, maybe not what the purpose of running it is in your context13:26
l3iparticularly13:26
l3iWell, it can give hints as you said13:26
lbtyep13:26
l3ibut you can't get a good approximation based on that alone, I'd say13:26
l3inormally13:26
l3ilbt: Not even what comes to the duration of the test in your selected context13:27
lbtinstead of duration think "cost"13:27
l3ilbt: yes, not just duration of course13:28
l3ilbt: But the costs of different tests in relation to other tests may differ depending on context13:28
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l3iso the metadata of a single test can't provide enough info normally13:28
lbtagree13:28
lbthow?13:28
lbthow do they differ according to context?13:29
l3ilbt: Well, in this particular case I actually referred to things like the test environment with the word context13:29
l3ilbt: The same test might be "expensive" to run in an environment, and "cheap" in another13:29
lbtOK - but examples? even vague ones :)13:29
l3ilbt: Sorry, can't come up with any right now :)13:30
l3ilbt: Will have to think13:30
lbtOK13:30
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lbtso how would you normally set out a test plan?13:31
lbt"normally" - hah!13:31
l3ilbt: heh..13:31
l3ilbt: test plan = what in this case ?13:31
lbtsequence of tests to check 5 packages which have changed. One's been hacked on, 3 depend on it at code level, 1 uses it via dbus API.13:32
lbtsequence of tests to check 5 packages. One's been hacked on, 3 depend on it at code level, 1 uses it via dbus API.13:33
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sledgeshello everybuddy!13:33
lbthey sledges13:33
Stskeepsmoo sledges13:33
sledgeso\ :)13:33
* lbt will learn to make animal noises one day13:33
sledgeshow's things?13:33
Stskeepsgood, one more day spent on moving mer ahead13:35
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sledgesmine's too :) with Lipstick QML13:35
lbtsledges: can I haz a tutorial?13:35
sledgesquestion: I finally calibrated the touchscreen, but Lipstick QML does not react to touches (in xterm before typing "$ lipstick" [enter], mouse cursor is visible and is reacting to touches)13:36
sledgeslbt, on animal noises? :)13:36
sledgesI think you have to ask Stskeeps13:37
l3ilbt: I'd first check how the available tests map against the four first packages, then run the ones mapped to be module/unit tests for the hacked package, then integration tests for the combination of the 4 packages and the hacked one.13:37
lbtsledges: if I learn "oink" then I'll need lipstick..13:37
l3ilbt: Not sure if you can get the point based on what I wrote though...13:37
sledges:) yes, I'm getting very close with Lipstick to a sellable demo, so a tutorial will come up!13:38
lbtsledges: broken tutorial first - helping fix little issues is a good learning tool13:38
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lbtl3i: would you do module/unit for the 3 "depend at code" before integration13:39
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sledges:)) I'm working on imx53_loco if that's fine with you :) apart from that - mic lipstick.ks and put it on SD card :))13:39
l3ilbt: No. As I'd expect them to have been run earlier13:39
lbtl3i: when? - they just got rebuilt13:40
l3iand if they're unit/module tests (really), then they should not be dependent on how other code works13:40
l3ilbt: Ah, true13:40
l3ilbt: of course... Any way to separate actually changed packages and other packages rebuild because of a dependency?13:40
Stskeepssledges: check normal x cursor works first13:40
Stskeepswith xorg13:41
lbtl3i: yes13:41
Stskeeps / xterm13:41
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l3ilbt: In that case, that separation would need to be taken into account. No unit/module testing for unchanged code13:41
lbtphone sec13:42
l3ilbt: when it comes to real unit/module testing where the rest of the system is mocked (or something similar) anyway, if taken into account at all13:42
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l3iNeed to leave for today13:45
sledgesStskeeps, that's what I said - it does. I have default.desktop->xterm.desktop, and Xorg comes up with cursor visible, responding to touches13:48
Stskeepssledges: ok, single or multi touch?13:48
sledgesthen I type lipstick into xterm, press enter and loose touchscreen responsiveness13:48
sledgessingle13:48
Stskeepsgimme Xorg.0.log13:48
sledgesmaybe I should launch lipstick qml straight away without xterm13:48
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lbtbank .... I need a "trading address on the website for Mer Project" ... grrr13:56
sledgesStskeeps: http://pastie.org/383915813:57
lbtl3i: otoh if the headers are changed and it's rebuilt - the binaries will have changed13:57
lbtor the shared libraries it links against....13:57
lbtl3i: just playing devils advocate a touch13:57
sledgesweird, if i start lipstick right as default.desktop, I see the mouse cursor for about several seconds, but the push events are not being sent.. so something's wrong with the touchscreen evdev driver..13:57
sledgesneed to make it work proper under xorgs (touchscreen testing software anyone? :))13:58
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Stskeepssledges: get xinput tool14:05
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Termanalbt, I've sent a pull request on github for sdk-kickstarter-configs.14:09
sledgesStskeeps, got it. It appears that is not sending PEN DOWN events to Xorg (although on console I get straight from kernel the "Exiting PEN DOWN HANDLER" messages). So maybe is not the evdev that I need to use in Xorg..14:09
TermanaNothing is committed for sdk-kickstarter-configs in mer gitweb/gerrit is that on purpose?14:10
lbtneed to get around to it14:15
Stskeepssledges: hmm, get xorg-x11-util-xinput or something like that14:24
lbtTermana: I'd simplify it a bit...  `ps aux | awk '{print $2}' | grep ${pid}` -> -d /proc/$pid/14:25
lbt(also avoids $pid being a subset of another pid)14:26
lbtdo you think we need the echos now? I'm tempted to quieten it down14:26
TermanaI closed the pull request because of a mix up on grepping the PIDs. I can remove the echos if you want, do you want it to still echo which processes are still actually using the SDK files though (the ones that need to be killed/whatever)?14:29
lbtyes - that makes sense since the user should do something about them14:30
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mdfeSage: hi, do you have five minutes for me?14:41
sledgesStskeeps, got xorg-x11-utils-xinput from Nemo repo but it says "XI2 not supported"14:43
Stskeepssledges: hmmm14:43
Stskeepssledges: what xorg server are you using on there..14:43
Stskeepsshow me whole error log?14:43
mdfeSage: we tried to submit a fix to the mer core, can you take a look if we have done it in the right way?14:44
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sledges1.10.1-1.29 from lipstick.ks (adapted from nemo.ks by adding lipstick repo, and @Mer Minimal Xorg provides X)14:45
timophlbt: pong (was at the movies)14:45
lbttimoph: sorted - was asking about cfp for devaamo14:45
timophack14:46
Stskeepsmdfe: hmm, something is looking a bit weird14:47
Stskeepsthough i'm trying to figure out what exactly :)14:47
mdfethis would be very nice :)14:48
Stskeepsbfederau: can i see your 'git log' from the nspr change?14:48
Stskeepsit seems like a git commit --amend by accident14:50
sledgesStskeeps, .xsession-errors: http://pastie.org/383942514:51
mdfebfederau: ping ^^14:52
Stskeepssledges: no, for xorg-x11-utils-xinput14:52
bfederauStskeeps: http://pastie.org/383943414:52
Stskeepsbfederau: can you explain the steps/instructions you followed up to your git commit?14:53
Stskeepsjust to track back on where things wrong14:53
bfederauStskeeps: right i used 'git commit --amend'14:53
sledgesStskeeps, "$ xinput list (newline) XI2 not supported" :)14:53
Stskeepssledges: uhh.14:54
sledgesarm7l..14:54
Stskeepsbfederau: ah, that explains a lot - you could just have git commit -sm "Fix this" :)14:54
Stskeepssledges: export DISPLAY=:0 ?14:54
Stskeepsbfederau: git commit --amend means go back to previous commit and append on it14:54
bfederauStskeeps: i used the instructions of http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail14:54
bfederauand pushed it with this commands14:54
bfederau   git add <changed-files>14:54
bfederau   git commit -s --amend -m "<Commit description>"14:54
bfederau   git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master14:54
Stskeepsright, that seems wrong14:55
Stskeepsl14:55
Stskeepslet me check14:55
Stskeepsbfederau: ok, so amend is only used when you had a bad review and you want to fix something14:56
lbtbfederau: yeah that's in the "Re-submit if original change was rejected" section I think14:56
Stskeepsbfederau: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution_in_detail#Push_for_review is the steps for a normal change14:56
bfederauStskeeps: oh damn then I were in the wrong lines of this instructions14:57
mdfeStskeeps: where is the git remote 'gerrit' defined?14:57
Stskeepsbfederau: will you kill me if i ask you to give it another try, from git clone ? (click "Abandon change" on http://review.merproject.org/54114:57
sledgesStskeeps, now from UART console: http://pastie.org/383945614:57
Stskeepsmdfe: that looks like an error14:58
* Stskeeps fixes14:58
Stskeepstwo errors in guide, thanks for catching14:59
* lbt thinks he sees a missing -a in the commit (and -a only git adds previously added files that were modified)14:59
Stskeeps-a can do a lot of damage, i think15:00
Stskeepsor does it15:00
lbtno, git add . does15:00
Stskeepsbfederau: besides that, actual packaging and patch looks fine15:00
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lbt-a : "Tell the command to automatically stage files that have been modified and deleted, but new files you have not told git about are not affected."15:01
Stskeepsok15:01
bfederauStskeeps: I will abandon my review request and try it again :)15:01
lbtplus we should be careful not to make it too much of a git tutorial15:01
Stskeepslbt: :nod: still, off the street15:02
lbtyeah15:02
Stskeepsbfederau: and for good measure, git commit -s means saying http://gerrit.googlecode.com/svn/documentation/2.0/user-signedoffby.html15:05
bfederauStskeeps: i have re-done it and now it looks way better than before ;)15:22
bfederauStskeeps: Thanks for your help15:23
Stskeepslooks fine to me :)15:23
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Stskeepsnow the automated testing will go through and reviews will come in, then i stage it, and merge in next merge window15:24
sledgeslol, Stskeeps , I have not built evtouch_drv.so ;)15:25
mdfe:)15:25
sledgesborrowed swcho (build errors on OBS, trying to fight them now)15:25
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Alison_ChaikenMer booted on my Archos 101G9: yay!16:01
Alison_ChaikenI promise that I will write up an addendum for the installation instructions, which right now only work for 101S mobo, not the 101H one I have.16:02
Alison_ChaikenThat way, the next newb who comes along can just be pointed to new instructions.16:02
Alison_ChaikenThanks so much, Sage, Stskeeps, _av500_ and dm8tbr for your help.16:02
Alison_ChaikenAnd dm8tbr for suggestion in buying 101g9 in the first place.   I look forward to using it!16:03
Alison_ChaikenNow on to breaking own projects packages, instead of yours.16:03
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: congratulations :)16:03
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Alison_ChaikenThanks, Stskeeps.   5 minutes into new efforts, I'll be back with a Qt question, I'm sure!16:05
Alison_Chaiken(Qt-OBS, I mean.   I know #qt has own channels.)16:06
Alison_ChaikenBut first, breakfast.16:06
sledgeshmm, why did specify (from Mer:SDK) stopped adding autogen --disable-static even when .yaml contains Configure: autogen ?16:12
* sledges apologises - lost in .YAMLs :))16:15
sledgesall good now16:15
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Sagemdfe: looks oko to me.16:20
mdfecool, thx16:21
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vgrade2Stskeeps, remember http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/16:27
Stskeepsyes16:27
vgrade2I have the timings now and I don't think I can make it16:28
Stskeepssaturday 10am what timezone?16:28
vgrade2janice and I have a dinner engagement which starts just as the session ends16:28
vgrade217:00 UTC16:29
Stskeepsok16:29
* Stskeeps counts16:29
vgrade2I could be present for some of the time, if your up for it I'll send you the email16:30
Stskeepsi think i can participate, let me just ask the missus's16:30
vgrade2np16:30
Stskeepsyes, please do16:30
Stskeepsyes, i can do it, please inform the rest to keep me in the loop16:32
* Stskeeps adds to calendar16:32
vgrade2cheers, good advert16:33
Stskeepsi'll probably be well practiced in my mer pitch anyway after 2 days at a conference..16:36
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Stskeepsvgrade2: and my skype is carsten.v.munk16:37
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vgrade2Stskeeps, oh its the UI thing this week16:38
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Stskeepsvgrade2: hmm?16:39
Stskeepsah, yeah16:40
dm8tbrAlison_Chaiken: awesome! let me know once you have that and I'll mention it also on the openAOS blog16:40
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Stskeepshmm16:41
Stskeepsi wonder if i should bring lipstick on a n9..16:41
sledgesappears that evtouch with xorg 1.10 does not work :( libtouch.h:51:9: error: unknown type name 'LocalDevicePtr'16:41
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Alison_Chaikendm8tbr, will do.16:51
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: btw, with your own self-made image or pre-generated?17:02
Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, I kept the PlasmaActive userland to begin with.   One step at a time!17:03
Stskeepsok17:03
Alison_ChaikenNext step is to try to install packages tripzero built, just to see if they work out of the box.17:03
Alison_ChaikenIt would be great for other users if they did.17:04
* Stskeeps boots up his driver's license training programme under WINE..17:07
vgrade2driving and wine don't often mix well17:08
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dm8tbrdon't drink and derive -- it had to be said...17:09
CosmoHillbig bang theory?17:11
vgrade2my son has bought the BBT boxed set, worth watching?17:12
Stskeepsquite good, makes you understand a lot of people on the internet ;)17:12
dm8tbrthat saying is way older17:12
CosmoHillvgrade2: I prefer the older stuff where it's more about geeky jokes than women / relationships17:13
vgrade2I think he has S1-417:13
CosmoHillwatch the first two, if you like it keep watching17:14
CosmoHillnot all on one go, if you find that you love it you'll spent all day in a room with a dvd player17:14
vgrade2is not really a tv person but this series seems to get recommended17:14
CosmoHillI get confused watching it on E4 cos they show the old stuff then a brand new episode17:19
Stskeeps12/18 in theoretical test on computer.. so far so good17:19
vgrade2qtonpi vouchers are out17:20
Stskeepscool, congrats to those who are on the list :)17:21
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CosmoHillI've been home from work 23 mins and I've already done everything on the computer17:23
dm8tbrStskeeps: do you get english questions or do you have to deal with the cryptspeak of us locals?17:25
Stskeepsdm8tbr: getting taught in english, theoretical can be done on computers with english questions.. practical with sworn translator17:28
dm8tbrthat last bit is cool :D17:29
CosmoHillcool17:29
CosmoHillif you have an emergency stop, is it timed from when the examiner or the translator shouts?17:30
StskeepsCosmoHill: i think 'stop' is the same in all my fluent languages17:31
Stskeeps:P17:31
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CosmoHillin my home town, if you're not a very good driver you take your test at the next town's test centre cos it's easier17:34
CosmoHillmy home down has some complex / weird road layouts17:34
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mikel_hi there17:35
CosmoHillhi *there*17:35
CosmoHillwait, wrong channel, I mean welcome17:35
mikel_i started my n900 to install latest nemo17:35
mikel_the image does not load17:35
dm8tbryou have uboot?17:35
mikel_it says something like ntdoops: 18,19 (no erase)17:36
mikel_i used ssd card in the n90017:36
Stskeepsput your back cover on17:36
mikel_yes uboot should be on the n900 installed, as I have meego put on it the same way17:36
mikel_hi carsten17:36
Stskeepshi17:37
mikel_back cover=? it is on17:37
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Stskeepshow about the magnet in it?17:37
mikel_a magnet in the backcover?17:37
dm8tbrunder the kickstand17:38
mikel_what is the kickstand? the bridge for the ssd card ?17:38
Stskeepsthe kickstand is the one in the camera lid you can move out to make the n900 stand17:39
Stskeepsthere's a tiny magnet underneath is17:39
mikel_ah, the lense was shut dark17:39
mikel_ok the lense is open now and I start it, backover on.17:40
dm8tbrflip out the kickstand and look at the now empty spot _next_ to the lense17:40
dm8tbrNOT the lensecover!17:40
mikel_mhh the ssd card is now out.17:41
mikel_the lense has an eye, over it the flash, next to it a hole and the hole of the opposite for the back cover17:42
mikel_where is there a magnet?17:42
* Stskeeps gets out paint..17:42
Stskeepshttp://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/2234/ea212c828b0e4f9c8a77d57013cae06a.jpg17:43
Stskeepssee the black square there?17:43
Stskeepsit's a magnet17:43
mikel_oh17:43
mikel_so i keep it out17:43
Stskeepsno, do you have that magnet or not..17:43
mikel_never knew there is something like that, yes there is such an stander17:44
dm8tbr*SIGH*17:44
dm8tbrnow flip it ou17:44
dm8tbrout17:44
dm8tbrand look at the place where it WAS17:44
mikel_seems there is in the middle something quadrant yes17:44
dm8tbrNOT in the kickstand, in the backcover. just to make this clear17:45
mikel_it is in the middle17:45
dm8tbrthat little square thing you saw on the photo17:45
Stskeepsmikel_: good, now tell me the messages up to 10 lines before the error17:45
Stskeepsideally take a photo of it17:45
mikel_it looks like your sent screenshot17:46
mikel_i need to restart to get the text17:46
Stskeepsdm8tbr: did you forget any of your equipment in WAW, btw? they evacuated shortly after you boarded i think :)17:47
mikel_failed to register misc device17:47
Stskeepsall 10 lines before that17:47
mikel_the screen starts and boots, then the second page appears, this is the first line, higher i cannot look as it is the first page17:48
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Stskeepsok17:48
Stskeepswalk me through how you wrote the image17:48
mikel_second line for pag 2 is power management17:48
mikel_third:; unablte to open drivers17:48
mikel_rtc device17:49
mikel_sorry17:49
mikel_it is so small wirtten17:49
mikel_4: kernel panic17:49
mikel_not syncing17:49
mikel_vF3: unablre zto moutn root17:49
mikel_es on unknown17:50
mikel_block17:50
Stskeepsok, so i need to know how you wrote the image to micrsd17:50
Stskeepsmicrosd17:50
mikel_5 + 6:. unmount and panic again17:50
mikel_with windows , without formatting the card with the tool provided17:51
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Stskeepsok, and what guide do you follow?17:51
mikel_just unziped the bz to image, loaded the image in the sd card writer and  hit write17:52
mikel_the nemo guide17:52
Stskeepsok17:52
mikel_http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Windows_Host17:52
Stskeepsok, any mmc errors while booting?17:53
Stskeepsand what uboot did you use17:53
mikel_boot says ssd card ok17:54
mikel_the uboot was downloaded once for meego in maemo, the developer thing, dunno the version, should I boot meamo tos ee ?17:55
mikel_driver/rtc/iotosys.c:unable to open rtc device (rtc 0)17:56
mikel_najoo was just a test17:57
mikel_will try later again17:57
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mikel_did not found where I installed uboot and which version, have closed the thing now, maybe the SD card has not been flashed proper, as the file explorer shows old pathes in maemo whithout card and closed the file explorer then18:23
mikel_anyway, maybe soon there will be a device for nemo18:23
mikel_tizen said, for the christmas sales samsung brings out a tizen phone18:23
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Stskeepschristmas? well that's new18:32
Stskeepszeq: happen to know if the medfield style processors do 64-bit?18:35
* timoph ponders about it's power consuption18:38
timophin any case if it is sold in a decent prize and one can boot alternative things in it I'll get one18:40
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zeqStskeeps: I don't know.  From what I can find online it doesn't, certainly nothing definitive. Usually Intel is pretty good on specs. *shrug*20:15
Stskeepsk20:16
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* lbt stabs puppet repeatedly with a jagged knife20:21
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* CosmoHill waves at lbt from a distance20:54
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lbtSafe thing to do CosmoHill20:56
CosmoHillI was on web cam at the weekend so I technically waved at someone from 200 miles away20:57
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CosmoHillI mean I can do that at any time but this time he saw it21:01
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lbt*g*21:02
CosmoHillI just read a two page chapter21:03
CosmoHillif I'd of know it was only two pages I'd of read it at lunch time instead of stopping there21:03
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CosmoHillAsda want £5,031.82 a year to insure a £5,750 car21:44
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vgrade2thats crazy21:48
CosmoHillcheapest was £1,386.4821:48
CosmoHillwhat's annoying is that last year I was getting quotes of £1200+ for my current car which is a 1.4L petrol21:49
CosmoHillthis car I'm after quotes for is a 2.5L turbo petrol and only £190 a year more21:49
vgrade2used to depend quite hevily on age and recency of passing test.21:51
CosmoHillit should be an awesome second car21:51
* lbt looks at his quote for a 4.2litre supercharged V8 (with tweaks) and enjoys being "mature"21:52
CosmoHilllbt: look at the green insurance company, they wanted 9K21:52
lbtsomehow I'm not sure it's a "green" car...21:53
smokushould I have mic2 installed in Platform SDK?21:53
lbtsmoku: not mic221:53
lbt"mic"21:53
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic21:54
smokulbt: I see mic. but http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation still speaks about mic221:54
lbtbug21:54
smokulbt: so, I should use mic (1) not mic2 ?21:55
lbtread my link :)21:55
smokulbt: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic still links http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation21:55
smokualso http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners talks about mic221:56
lbtyes, I meant the "Some history: originally mic was the Moblin Image Creator, this evolved and was renamed mic2 for MeeGo, now the Tizen project is creating another, third, version of mic, but to avoid confusion (!) it will simply be called mic, not mic3. "21:56
smokuhttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mic_installation - "sudo zypper install mic2"21:56
smokuso, nothing linked on Category:Mic relates to mic (1)21:57
lbtthere is no mic(1)21:57
smokuI know the history of mic (1,2,3)21:57
lbtonly mic(3)21:57
lbthttps://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11721:57
smokubut Category:Mic doesn't help me on building image21:57
smokuso it's even worse21:58
smokufrom http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Category:Mic I got the impression that Mer uses mic1 not mic321:58
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lbtsmoku: it uses "mic" which has a history - if you know the history you know it's mic3 ... if you don't know then it doesn't matter, it's mic22:00
smokuso, according to MER#117 there is no documentation for mic and I'm on my own, right? :)22:00
lbtfrom the category page: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners22:02
smokuok. --help is pretty explanatory22:02
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lbtalso the SDK page has some mic content - not sure if it enough for a link to the category - it's kinda incidental22:02
lbtsmoku: if you'd like to verify and update the Beginners page with the SDK mic that would be very helpful22:03
smokulbt: from what I see so far, there's not much to verify. it needs rewriting as mic(3) is completely different22:06
lbthonestly I've not even looked at it for ages22:06
smokui will try to update it once I get it running22:07
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lbtOK - yell if you need help - as mentioned the SDK page has some getting started stuff too22:08
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lbtsmoku: http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Platform_SDK#Building_an_image <-- there22:24
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smokulbt: thanks :)22:25
smokubut I already bootet freshly built cordia on my ideapad :D22:26
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lbt:)22:26
smokumic3 is cool :)22:26
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smokuand it works :D22:31
smokuinstaller-shell didn't add itself to the usb boot menu. any idea why?22:36
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lbtno22:38
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lbtis that in the syslinux part?22:40
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smokuyes. i have only boot from usb and boot from hdd options.22:42
CosmoHillcyas22:42
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smokuadding installer-shell used to add third option 'install to hdd'22:43
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lbtMer tends not to use syslinux much - mainly do image generation22:44
smokumaybe it's a difference between mic 2 and 322:44
vgrade2smoku, that function has been broken for a while, you used to be able to drop into a shell and run installer-shell but I've seen reports that that is also broken. Sage was looking at changing the x86 adaptation packages22:47
smokuvgrade2: it worked on 20111018 (previous time I was building cordia images)22:48
vgrade2yea things broke at some stage so you had to call the installer-shell from VT222:49
vgrade2as I say Sage was looking at it at the end of last week22:49
smokushould I bug him, or just wait?22:50
vgrade2https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178 refers22:51
vgrade2he was looking for hands last week22:51
vgrade2did you try invoking from a shell?22:52
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smokunope22:56
smokulooks like working22:56
smokuyup. installing on vty222:57
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smokuso it just needs bootmenu entry22:57
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smokuI see the bootmenu entry is disabled on purpose22:58
smokuinstalled fine22:59
smoku:D it boots to hildon-desktop in like 100 seconds :)23:00
smoku10 I mean :)23:00
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