Saturday, 2012-04-07

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Stskeepsmorn05:30
dm8tbr'bry05:36
dm8tbrhttp://apina.biz/2692105:37
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Stskeepshehe06:00
dm8tbrwas actually echan, but oh well ;)06:00
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Stskeepsyou know, while trying webos it strikes me that intels' tablet ux could actually really have pulled off a nice product too06:38
dm8tbrit was very nice indeed06:39
Stskeepser, could have06:39
Stskeepsand if this os is 'web based', tizen might work too :P06:39
dm8tbrtoo bad, that all the graphics were under a restricted licence06:39
Stskeepsyeah06:40
dm8tbrelse there might have been more in terms of community push, but oh well we've been through the topic a million times06:41
Stskeepshopefully lipstick and such can make such endavedours easier06:46
Stskeeps(sp)06:46
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wmarone_finally07:12
Stskeepsmm?07:12
wmarone_Xorg + radeon support working on my tablet07:12
Stskeepsah, cool07:12
Stskeepsthat's the acer one?07:13
wmarone_yup07:13
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wmarone_time to follow vgrade's suggestion and build a PA image07:13
vgrademorning07:47
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* lbt off for the day ... o/08:28
lbtOBS workers all seem up+running so that's OK :)08:28
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Stskeepshave a good day08:35
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I want to set DNS, but cannot find /etc/resolv.conf11:42
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: so, how to set DNS server for mer?11:43
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: through connman api12:36
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: connman api ? first heard of it12:41
Stskeepsconnman manages network connections and acts like a dns proxy too12:43
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: no configuration files for it ? I have to write a connman application to set dns server?12:46
Stskeepsit picks it up from dhcp or through the setting you give it in its dbus api12:47
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Stskeepslo ilf12:48
_ilf_hi12:48
_ilf_saw your tweet, i always forget that the linaro landing teams don't actually produce 100% foss12:49
Stskeepsyup, arm gles is always closed source12:50
Stskeepsthough there are other reasons, such as sharing same fixes for arm issues, so we can reuse linaro porting patches12:51
Stskeepsand have reproducability on the ubuntu arm side of bugs12:51
_ilf_i like what the linaro guys are doing. i actually always use their kernel on my imx5312:51
_ilf_did they started building hardfloat12:52
Stskeepsyep, finally12:52
_ilf_it was about time12:53
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Stskeepsmer isnt so picky as we dont have a shared app story, so we carty both softfp and hardfp ports12:54
_ilf_the problem with the linaro was that they only had softfp and that was kinda pointles on c-a8 and up12:54
_ilf_a bit of a side question regarding mer, although I don't think it is 100% mer related12:55
Stskeepsyeah.. but they had bigger amount of pkgs to build than meego12:55
_ilf_the former meego project had the core distro, which now i suppose is 'mer'. nemo is targeted to phone manuf/users, but what happened to the other 'spins'12:56
_ilf_the automotive, smartTV, etc?12:56
dm8tbrthat's commercial stuff, some might have moved to Tizen12:58
Stskeepswell, mer took meego in a core direction as we believed more in that path.. dawati is the netbook ui, smarttv and ivi is in tizen i think12:58
Stskeepspeple work on ivi on top of mer though12:58
Stskeepsits after all a ui and middleware12:59
_ilf_i have a fundamental problem with tizen12:59
Stskeepsothers do tv solution on top of mer too, with qtmediahub12:59
_ilf_which some might think is a bullshit reason, but i really, really hate .debs :)12:59
Stskeepseverything points to that main story in tizen is html5 apps with wgt packaging, with underlying stack different13:01
_ilf_do you know who is using mer in IVI right now?13:01
_ilf_by the way13:02
_ilf_we used the WAC stuff last summer for a project13:02
_ilf_it's awful13:02
Stskeepslooking into it is alison_chaiken, arcomivi, georgeh, vgrade.. there is a wiki page for it13:03
_ilf_and i really don't think any sane developer will want to have anything to do with that platform13:03
Stskeepseverything points to that main story in tizen is html5 apps with wgt packaging, with underlying stack different  -- ie debian for handset, meego derived for ivi, etc13:04
_ilf_is that in the mer wiki?13:04
Stskeepscheck mer-general mailing list archive for discussions, yes, its on mer wiki somewhere13:06
Stskeepsbrb13:06
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Stskeeps_ilf_: what do you hope to use Mer for?13:10
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_ilf_@Stskeeps i don't know yet. I'm really interested in the automotive stuff and the smarttv/smarthouse13:16
Stskeepsmakes sense, i'm into smarthouse myself13:17
_ilf_i was really excited when meego was announced, as i was hoping for an open future with devices that can communicate freely with each other13:18
Stskeepsone of the reasons mer is just a core is that in a real smarthouse like world, there is no good seperation into verticals13:18
_ilf_an internet of things of sorts13:18
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Stskeepshttp://projectgrande.wikispaces.com is an old writeup13:19
_ilf_i have a beaglebone, and imx53 an omap3530 board, the n900 and some xscales around :) so the ideal approach would be to have the same core os on them :)13:20
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_ilf_at the same time my primary job description is creating private infras and clouds for clients, so pure linux everywhere would be an ideal world, wouldn't it :)13:22
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Stskeepsyep13:23
_ilf_hmm, the project grande sounds really interesting, i don't know how i missed it13:23
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_ilf_by the way while we are on the subject, what is the status of wayland both in mer and in general13:24
_ilf_as i was thinking of a smarthouse solution around the beaglebone but with wayland/qt513:25
_ilf_to hopefully minimize the memory footprint of the system13:25
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_ilf_the projectgrande blows my mind, as this is exactly what i'm preaching for the last 3 years. I even wrote a business plan around such technologies with added augmented/virtual reality interfaces on top of semantics few years ago. instead of a grant i became a laughing-stock for the jury. @Stskeeps you made my day, at least i know i'm not the only "sci-fi wacko" (exact quote) out there13:37
Stskeepsdid you see the 'a day made of glass' videos?13:38
Stskeepsboth 1 and 213:38
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Stskeepsregarding wayland, not too good, but a gentle packaging hand can easily bring it up to speed, qt5 we have qtbase in review atm13:39
_ilf_yes when they came out. i loved them, although i have a bit of a problem with the whole "touch with fingers" interfaces13:40
_ilf_i think that in a living room to confine yourself to touching surfaces is a bit old13:40
Stskeepssee the '2' with narration too, it's quite interesting13:41
Stskeepsbut yeah.. let's see where things go13:42
Stskeepswe actually have code too, html5/qml runtimes and a proposed ui, and demos for state transfer of app from one device to another13:42
_ilf_i actually think that in a living room the better approach would be to have projectors that will create virtual reality around you13:42
_ilf_and here i think i'm getting a bit in the scifi realm13:43
Stskeepsfuture is here already, just not widely distributed13:43
_ilf_but with proper nano-tech you can easily implant 'activators' of sorts around the nerves in the hands to give you the real haptic feedback of the virtual reality objects13:44
Stskeeps:nod:13:45
_ilf_that, i think could really be revolutionary ;)13:45
Stskeepsbtw, regarding eglibc i did not communicate it quite well :) it was too obvious a upgrade when it worked in first try13:45
Stskeepsso that one is a fail of mine13:46
_ilf_i saw the shortlog in the repo13:46
_ilf_and i was, ok, that looks strange, but i actually always forget about the binary blobs13:46
Stskeepsyeah13:46
Stskeepsand the fact we were stuck on glibc 2.1313:47
_ilf_when you mentioned it, it became quite obvious :)13:47
Stskeepsanyhow, i have to go -- feel free to hang out here :)13:47
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_ilf_i checked the fedora arm koji and they are actually up to 2.1513:47
Stskeepsand ask questions if you ever have any13:47
_ilf_i will, i just have to get accustomed to irc13:47
_ilf_which i never got the proper hold of :)13:48
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wmarone_vgrade: are you aware of which metapackage includes mes-llvmpipe? It's causing an install conflict with my GPU drivers and tossing in a -mesa-llvm doesn't disable it.17:01
wmarone_mesa-llvmpipe*17:02
Stskeepsdoes your gpu drivers provides lubegl.so.1 and libglesv2.so.2?17:03
wmarone_the driver package has mesa-x86-generic as a dependency17:04
wmarone_and it's conflicting with egl_gallium.so and st_GL.so17:05
Stskeepsah.. pa image?17:06
wmarone_yup17:06
Stskeepsshow me .ks17:08
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wmarone_http://pastie.org/374560917:09
Stskeepswill check later tonight17:12
wmarone_k, will keep looking here too17:13
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Stskeepsfor the tizen interested crowd / ivi, download.tizen.org has a rpm based tizen instance for ivi17:18
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wmarone_ok, looks like the conflict was simply due to insufficient package listing. Should probably look into a metapackage to cover all of these files.18:20
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Stskeepsinteresting 'gbs' utility, looks like obs-less package builds18:29
Stskeepsi wonder if we can improve that with sb218:29
Stskeeps(in tizen 'rpm')18:29
mnemonicNoob question. I'm trying to get an overall picture: how are Tizen, MeeGo, Plasma Active, Mer Linux related? Is "Mer Linux" the "core" and all the others run on top of that?18:36
Stskeepsmnemonic: hehe.. not a newbie question, the history is a bit complex :)18:36
Stskeepsi need to throw in two more things, Maemo and SLP (Samsung Linux Platform) to explain18:37
mnemonic:P18:37
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Stskeepswe had old Mer, which was a project to reconstruct Maemo (running on Nokia 770, N800, N810, N900, etc) into a proper open source project. MeeGo came along and we were all happy for quite a while as that was the direction to go and participated in this project instead of old Mer, but the management of it didn't live up to the principles set out for the project. Feb11 (Windows phone announcement at Nokia) came along and we began scheming ...18:43
Stskeeps... along and worked on a minimal core version of MeeGo, codenamed Mer. Intel comes along and actually drops MeeGo and announced Tizen together with Samsung, before we had managed to announce we'd fork MeeGo to improve upon it. Tizen first release came quite late and for a while we thought it'd be a continuation of MeeGo codebase. But they published a Samsung Linux Platform based platform (Debian-based) at first, for handsets only, ...18:43
Stskeeps... which architectually was/is a nightmare. Now Intel/Tizen has published also a RPM based Tizen, which uses a minimal core as well, with a IVI vertical. Plasma Active is a seperate project from the KDE community and has been ongoing for a long time, first they did images on top of MeeGo and then they started doing images on top of Mer instead. Mer's a core, so you need to add a hardware adaptation and a UI yourself, we'll take care ...18:43
Stskeeps... of boring systems level stuff and tools to help build products18:43
Stskeeps.. does that explain better18:43
Stskeeps?18:43
StskeepsMer is derived from MeeGo 1.3, fwiw18:43
Stskeeps:P18:43
CosmoHillyay18:45
mnemonicCool - thanks :). I downloaded Qt SDK in preparation for my pre-ordered Raspberry Pi. I liked Qt so much I decided to buy a Nokia N9. I then hear than MeeGo is a dead duck, and folks are concentrating on Tizen.18:45
CosmoHillmnemonic: what do you plan to do with your pi?18:45
Stskeepsmnemonic: meego's quite dead and N9's not really MeeGo.com, yeah..18:46
Stskeepsmnemonic: we decided not to join in Tizen directly and instead show how to do a proper mobile core open source project.. but we do feel there's a lot of collaboration to be done tizen-mer wise18:46
mnemonicJust want to mess around with OpenGL mostly. Haven't got anything planned, sure I'll find something to do with it :)18:46
CosmoHillme either, dad just bought one for my birthday18:47
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mnemonicSo the Vivaldi tablet will be using a Mer core?18:50
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Stskeepsyeah, with plasma active on top and a hardware adaptation for vivaldi on top of mer18:52
mnemonicWhere do drivers sit? In the hardware adaptation layer?18:53
Stskeepsyeah18:53
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mnemonicI've seen a couple of Vivaldi tablet demos on YouTube. The UI rendering did not look hardware accelerated. Does anyone know if the final product will include Mali drivers?18:56
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Stskeepswell, at least amlogic already provides framebuffer gles drivers18:56
Stskeepsmuch in style of what r-pi does18:56
mnemonicOh cool :). I'm a sucker for smooth responsive GUIs :)18:57
Stskeepsit already performs fairly well even without, which is nice18:58
CosmoHillI'm a sucker for kids CGI films18:58
Stskeepsas far as i could tell18:58
CosmoHill(I have easier access to kids CGI films than smooth responsive GUIs >.<)18:58
Stskeepsmnemonic: so done anything related to qt already?19:00
mnemonicStskeeps - no, just learning at the moment. Written a couple of silly apps for the N9.19:00
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Stskeeps:nod:19:01
mnemonicStskeeps - really like the N9, itching to get my hands on a similar tablet.19:01
Stskeepsever saw Lipstick?19:01
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM - framework of such to make homescreens19:01
mnemonicStskeeps - heard Acer were doing an Iconia M500 that was supposed to be MeeGo, but not sure what happened to it.19:02
Stskeepsmnemonic: probably died, sadly19:02
wmarone_canned, zehjotkah got his hands on a prototype a while back though19:03
wmarone_but if all works out I'll have PA on my W500 once this image dd gets done :)19:03
mnemonicStskeeps - thanks for the Lipstick link! Will look deeper into this :)19:04
mnemonicwmarone_ - what's "PA"?19:04
wmarone_ah19:05
wmarone_plasma active19:05
mnemonicAhhhh... Of course :)19:05
wmarone_ooh, pretty19:05
wmarone_hmm19:06
mnemonicLipstick is buttery smooth!19:06
Stskeepsjust a framework, you can make any kind of homescreen you want19:06
Stskeepswindows are just elements in your qml19:06
mnemonicAh man, sweet!!!19:06
niqtmenmonic i have mer+PA on wetab19:07
mnemonicniqt - was it difficult to install/set-up? Is there a "how-to" somewhere?19:08
wmarone_hmm, it is quite unhappy19:08
Stskeepswmarone_: define unhappy19:09
niqtto install is simple19:09
wmarone_the loading spinner disappears and leaves me with a blank X root window with cursor, and now I have basically noise19:09
Stskeepswmarone_: .xsession-errors perhaps19:10
wmarone_ok19:10
wmarone_need to get some food first tho, bbiab19:10
mnemonicStskeeps - thanks so much for the info, now that things are clearer I'll be able to search for more info :)19:12
niqtmnemonic http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Installation#Mer_Plasma_Active_Live_.28Installable.29_Image19:12
mnemonicThanks niqt19:13
wmarone_oh, there it goes19:14
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wmarone_hm. plasma-device keeps dying, but it's not printing a stack trace20:08
Stskeepscan you test with mer-gfx-tests first?20:08
Stskeepsglestest is always a winner20:09
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CosmoHillcyas22:52
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