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| Stskeeps | morn | 05:30 |
|---|---|---|
| dm8tbr | 'bry | 05:36 |
| dm8tbr | http://apina.biz/26921 | 05:37 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 06:00 |
| dm8tbr | was actually echan, but oh well ;) | 06:00 |
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| Stskeeps | you know, while trying webos it strikes me that intels' tablet ux could actually really have pulled off a nice product too | 06:38 |
| dm8tbr | it was very nice indeed | 06:39 |
| Stskeeps | er, could have | 06:39 |
| Stskeeps | and if this os is 'web based', tizen might work too :P | 06:39 |
| dm8tbr | too bad, that all the graphics were under a restricted licence | 06:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 06:40 |
| dm8tbr | else there might have been more in terms of community push, but oh well we've been through the topic a million times | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully lipstick and such can make such endavedours easier | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | (sp) | 06:46 |
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| wmarone_ | finally | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 07:12 |
| wmarone_ | Xorg + radeon support working on my tablet | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah, cool | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | that's the acer one? | 07:13 |
| wmarone_ | yup | 07:13 |
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| wmarone_ | time to follow vgrade's suggestion and build a PA image | 07:13 |
| vgrade | morning | 07:47 |
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| * lbt off for the day ... o/ | 08:28 | |
| lbt | OBS workers all seem up+running so that's OK :) | 08:28 |
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| Stskeeps | have a good day | 08:35 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: I want to set DNS, but cannot find /etc/resolv.conf | 11:42 |
| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: so, how to set DNS server for mer? | 11:43 |
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| Stskeeps | ZiQiangHuan: through connman api | 12:36 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: connman api ? first heard of it | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | connman manages network connections and acts like a dns proxy too | 12:43 |
| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: no configuration files for it ? I have to write a connman application to set dns server? | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | it picks it up from dhcp or through the setting you give it in its dbus api | 12:47 |
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| Stskeeps | lo ilf | 12:48 |
| _ilf_ | hi | 12:48 |
| _ilf_ | saw your tweet, i always forget that the linaro landing teams don't actually produce 100% foss | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | yup, arm gles is always closed source | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | though there are other reasons, such as sharing same fixes for arm issues, so we can reuse linaro porting patches | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | and have reproducability on the ubuntu arm side of bugs | 12:51 |
| _ilf_ | i like what the linaro guys are doing. i actually always use their kernel on my imx53 | 12:51 |
| _ilf_ | did they started building hardfloat | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | yep, finally | 12:52 |
| _ilf_ | it was about time | 12:53 |
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| Stskeeps | mer isnt so picky as we dont have a shared app story, so we carty both softfp and hardfp ports | 12:54 |
| _ilf_ | the problem with the linaro was that they only had softfp and that was kinda pointles on c-a8 and up | 12:54 |
| _ilf_ | a bit of a side question regarding mer, although I don't think it is 100% mer related | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. but they had bigger amount of pkgs to build than meego | 12:55 |
| _ilf_ | the former meego project had the core distro, which now i suppose is 'mer'. nemo is targeted to phone manuf/users, but what happened to the other 'spins' | 12:56 |
| _ilf_ | the automotive, smartTV, etc? | 12:56 |
| dm8tbr | that's commercial stuff, some might have moved to Tizen | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, mer took meego in a core direction as we believed more in that path.. dawati is the netbook ui, smarttv and ivi is in tizen i think | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | peple work on ivi on top of mer though | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | its after all a ui and middleware | 12:59 |
| _ilf_ | i have a fundamental problem with tizen | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | others do tv solution on top of mer too, with qtmediahub | 12:59 |
| _ilf_ | which some might think is a bullshit reason, but i really, really hate .debs :) | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | everything points to that main story in tizen is html5 apps with wgt packaging, with underlying stack different | 13:01 |
| _ilf_ | do you know who is using mer in IVI right now? | 13:01 |
| _ilf_ | by the way | 13:02 |
| _ilf_ | we used the WAC stuff last summer for a project | 13:02 |
| _ilf_ | it's awful | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | looking into it is alison_chaiken, arcomivi, georgeh, vgrade.. there is a wiki page for it | 13:03 |
| _ilf_ | and i really don't think any sane developer will want to have anything to do with that platform | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | everything points to that main story in tizen is html5 apps with wgt packaging, with underlying stack different -- ie debian for handset, meego derived for ivi, etc | 13:04 |
| _ilf_ | is that in the mer wiki? | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | check mer-general mailing list archive for discussions, yes, its on mer wiki somewhere | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | brb | 13:06 |
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| Stskeeps | _ilf_: what do you hope to use Mer for? | 13:10 |
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| _ilf_ | @Stskeeps i don't know yet. I'm really interested in the automotive stuff and the smarttv/smarthouse | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | makes sense, i'm into smarthouse myself | 13:17 |
| _ilf_ | i was really excited when meego was announced, as i was hoping for an open future with devices that can communicate freely with each other | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | one of the reasons mer is just a core is that in a real smarthouse like world, there is no good seperation into verticals | 13:18 |
| _ilf_ | an internet of things of sorts | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | http://projectgrande.wikispaces.com is an old writeup | 13:19 |
| _ilf_ | i have a beaglebone, and imx53 an omap3530 board, the n900 and some xscales around :) so the ideal approach would be to have the same core os on them :) | 13:20 |
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| _ilf_ | at the same time my primary job description is creating private infras and clouds for clients, so pure linux everywhere would be an ideal world, wouldn't it :) | 13:22 |
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| Stskeeps | yep | 13:23 |
| _ilf_ | hmm, the project grande sounds really interesting, i don't know how i missed it | 13:23 |
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| _ilf_ | by the way while we are on the subject, what is the status of wayland both in mer and in general | 13:24 |
| _ilf_ | as i was thinking of a smarthouse solution around the beaglebone but with wayland/qt5 | 13:25 |
| _ilf_ | to hopefully minimize the memory footprint of the system | 13:25 |
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| _ilf_ | the projectgrande blows my mind, as this is exactly what i'm preaching for the last 3 years. I even wrote a business plan around such technologies with added augmented/virtual reality interfaces on top of semantics few years ago. instead of a grant i became a laughing-stock for the jury. @Stskeeps you made my day, at least i know i'm not the only "sci-fi wacko" (exact quote) out there | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | did you see the 'a day made of glass' videos? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | both 1 and 2 | 13:38 |
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| Stskeeps | regarding wayland, not too good, but a gentle packaging hand can easily bring it up to speed, qt5 we have qtbase in review atm | 13:39 |
| _ilf_ | yes when they came out. i loved them, although i have a bit of a problem with the whole "touch with fingers" interfaces | 13:40 |
| _ilf_ | i think that in a living room to confine yourself to touching surfaces is a bit old | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | see the '2' with narration too, it's quite interesting | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah.. let's see where things go | 13:42 |
| Stskeeps | we actually have code too, html5/qml runtimes and a proposed ui, and demos for state transfer of app from one device to another | 13:42 |
| _ilf_ | i actually think that in a living room the better approach would be to have projectors that will create virtual reality around you | 13:42 |
| _ilf_ | and here i think i'm getting a bit in the scifi realm | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | future is here already, just not widely distributed | 13:43 |
| _ilf_ | but with proper nano-tech you can easily implant 'activators' of sorts around the nerves in the hands to give you the real haptic feedback of the virtual reality objects | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:45 |
| _ilf_ | that, i think could really be revolutionary ;) | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | btw, regarding eglibc i did not communicate it quite well :) it was too obvious a upgrade when it worked in first try | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | so that one is a fail of mine | 13:46 |
| _ilf_ | i saw the shortlog in the repo | 13:46 |
| _ilf_ | and i was, ok, that looks strange, but i actually always forget about the binary blobs | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | and the fact we were stuck on glibc 2.13 | 13:47 |
| _ilf_ | when you mentioned it, it became quite obvious :) | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, i have to go -- feel free to hang out here :) | 13:47 |
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| _ilf_ | i checked the fedora arm koji and they are actually up to 2.15 | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | and ask questions if you ever have any | 13:47 |
| _ilf_ | i will, i just have to get accustomed to irc | 13:47 |
| _ilf_ | which i never got the proper hold of :) | 13:48 |
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| wmarone_ | vgrade: are you aware of which metapackage includes mes-llvmpipe? It's causing an install conflict with my GPU drivers and tossing in a -mesa-llvm doesn't disable it. | 17:01 |
| wmarone_ | mesa-llvmpipe* | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | does your gpu drivers provides lubegl.so.1 and libglesv2.so.2? | 17:03 |
| wmarone_ | the driver package has mesa-x86-generic as a dependency | 17:04 |
| wmarone_ | and it's conflicting with egl_gallium.so and st_GL.so | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | ah.. pa image? | 17:06 |
| wmarone_ | yup | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | show me .ks | 17:08 |
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| wmarone_ | http://pastie.org/3745609 | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | will check later tonight | 17:12 |
| wmarone_ | k, will keep looking here too | 17:13 |
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| Stskeeps | for the tizen interested crowd / ivi, download.tizen.org has a rpm based tizen instance for ivi | 17:18 |
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| wmarone_ | ok, looks like the conflict was simply due to insufficient package listing. Should probably look into a metapackage to cover all of these files. | 18:20 |
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| Stskeeps | interesting 'gbs' utility, looks like obs-less package builds | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if we can improve that with sb2 | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | (in tizen 'rpm') | 18:29 |
| mnemonic | Noob question. I'm trying to get an overall picture: how are Tizen, MeeGo, Plasma Active, Mer Linux related? Is "Mer Linux" the "core" and all the others run on top of that? | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonic: hehe.. not a newbie question, the history is a bit complex :) | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | i need to throw in two more things, Maemo and SLP (Samsung Linux Platform) to explain | 18:37 |
| mnemonic | :P | 18:37 |
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| Stskeeps | we had old Mer, which was a project to reconstruct Maemo (running on Nokia 770, N800, N810, N900, etc) into a proper open source project. MeeGo came along and we were all happy for quite a while as that was the direction to go and participated in this project instead of old Mer, but the management of it didn't live up to the principles set out for the project. Feb11 (Windows phone announcement at Nokia) came along and we began scheming ... | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | ... along and worked on a minimal core version of MeeGo, codenamed Mer. Intel comes along and actually drops MeeGo and announced Tizen together with Samsung, before we had managed to announce we'd fork MeeGo to improve upon it. Tizen first release came quite late and for a while we thought it'd be a continuation of MeeGo codebase. But they published a Samsung Linux Platform based platform (Debian-based) at first, for handsets only, ... | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | ... which architectually was/is a nightmare. Now Intel/Tizen has published also a RPM based Tizen, which uses a minimal core as well, with a IVI vertical. Plasma Active is a seperate project from the KDE community and has been ongoing for a long time, first they did images on top of MeeGo and then they started doing images on top of Mer instead. Mer's a core, so you need to add a hardware adaptation and a UI yourself, we'll take care ... | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | ... of boring systems level stuff and tools to help build products | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | .. does that explain better | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | Mer is derived from MeeGo 1.3, fwiw | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:43 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 18:45 |
| mnemonic | Cool - thanks :). I downloaded Qt SDK in preparation for my pre-ordered Raspberry Pi. I liked Qt so much I decided to buy a Nokia N9. I then hear than MeeGo is a dead duck, and folks are concentrating on Tizen. | 18:45 |
| CosmoHill | mnemonic: what do you plan to do with your pi? | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonic: meego's quite dead and N9's not really MeeGo.com, yeah.. | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonic: we decided not to join in Tizen directly and instead show how to do a proper mobile core open source project.. but we do feel there's a lot of collaboration to be done tizen-mer wise | 18:46 |
| mnemonic | Just want to mess around with OpenGL mostly. Haven't got anything planned, sure I'll find something to do with it :) | 18:46 |
| CosmoHill | me either, dad just bought one for my birthday | 18:47 |
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| mnemonic | So the Vivaldi tablet will be using a Mer core? | 18:50 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, with plasma active on top and a hardware adaptation for vivaldi on top of mer | 18:52 |
| mnemonic | Where do drivers sit? In the hardware adaptation layer? | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:53 |
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| mnemonic | I've seen a couple of Vivaldi tablet demos on YouTube. The UI rendering did not look hardware accelerated. Does anyone know if the final product will include Mali drivers? | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | well, at least amlogic already provides framebuffer gles drivers | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | much in style of what r-pi does | 18:56 |
| mnemonic | Oh cool :). I'm a sucker for smooth responsive GUIs :) | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | it already performs fairly well even without, which is nice | 18:58 |
| CosmoHill | I'm a sucker for kids CGI films | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | as far as i could tell | 18:58 |
| CosmoHill | (I have easier access to kids CGI films than smooth responsive GUIs >.<) | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonic: so done anything related to qt already? | 19:00 |
| mnemonic | Stskeeps - no, just learning at the moment. Written a couple of silly apps for the N9. | 19:00 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:01 |
| mnemonic | Stskeeps - really like the N9, itching to get my hands on a similar tablet. | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | ever saw Lipstick? | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS00aA8QyM - framework of such to make homescreens | 19:01 |
| mnemonic | Stskeeps - heard Acer were doing an Iconia M500 that was supposed to be MeeGo, but not sure what happened to it. | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonic: probably died, sadly | 19:02 |
| wmarone_ | canned, zehjotkah got his hands on a prototype a while back though | 19:03 |
| wmarone_ | but if all works out I'll have PA on my W500 once this image dd gets done :) | 19:03 |
| mnemonic | Stskeeps - thanks for the Lipstick link! Will look deeper into this :) | 19:04 |
| mnemonic | wmarone_ - what's "PA"? | 19:04 |
| wmarone_ | ah | 19:05 |
| wmarone_ | plasma active | 19:05 |
| mnemonic | Ahhhh... Of course :) | 19:05 |
| wmarone_ | ooh, pretty | 19:05 |
| wmarone_ | hmm | 19:06 |
| mnemonic | Lipstick is buttery smooth! | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | just a framework, you can make any kind of homescreen you want | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | windows are just elements in your qml | 19:06 |
| mnemonic | Ah man, sweet!!! | 19:06 |
| niqt | menmonic i have mer+PA on wetab | 19:07 |
| mnemonic | niqt - was it difficult to install/set-up? Is there a "how-to" somewhere? | 19:08 |
| wmarone_ | hmm, it is quite unhappy | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | wmarone_: define unhappy | 19:09 |
| niqt | to install is simple | 19:09 |
| wmarone_ | the loading spinner disappears and leaves me with a blank X root window with cursor, and now I have basically noise | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | wmarone_: .xsession-errors perhaps | 19:10 |
| wmarone_ | ok | 19:10 |
| wmarone_ | need to get some food first tho, bbiab | 19:10 |
| mnemonic | Stskeeps - thanks so much for the info, now that things are clearer I'll be able to search for more info :) | 19:12 |
| niqt | mnemonic http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Installation#Mer_Plasma_Active_Live_.28Installable.29_Image | 19:12 |
| mnemonic | Thanks niqt | 19:13 |
| wmarone_ | oh, there it goes | 19:14 |
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| wmarone_ | hm. plasma-device keeps dying, but it's not printing a stack trace | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | can you test with mer-gfx-tests first? | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | glestest is always a winner | 20:09 |
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