Saturday, 2012-03-17

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tripzerowhich mer image should i try on my igep?01:20
tripzeroare there images without X?01:20
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Aardhas somebody been doing some work on the touchbook?07:37
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Amir57hey everybody07:50
Amir57anybody on?07:51
Amir57ok thank you07:52
StskeepsAmir57: morning, so what brings you here?07:57
StskeepsAard: doesn't ubuntu kernels mostly work with that?08:05
Stskeepstrip0: for instance + mer platform sdk08:06
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AardStskeeps: they boot ubuntu with custom kernel08:20
StskeepsAard: yeah, but i thought the ubuntu ones fairly supported it08:20
Aardubuntu has stock arm stuff?08:21
Stskeepswell, this might have been in the past..08:22
* Stskeeps ponders idly08:22
Stskeepscoding or enjoying 18 C outside during today08:22
Aardcoding outside, enjoying 18 degrees?08:22
Stskeepshmmm :P08:22
Aardnowadays we crazy geeks are mobile08:22
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Stskeepsmorn timoph08:27
timophno such problems here. 1 C outside08:27
timophjust put fedora to my ideapad and now putting nemo to exo to start playing with the qa tools08:28
timophupdate is taking forever with the ideapad08:30
iekkuwas planning to have a trip outside today, longer tomorrow08:30
vgradelbt, found so ignore earlier ping08:31
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Stskeepslbt: "minor" sdk 'bug'08:38
Stskeepslbt: rsync will traverse into /home again08:38
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lbtmorning all08:51
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:52
Stskeepshow was the tango?08:52
vgrademorning lbt08:52
vgradegot to say I'm loving the new sdk, image building, local osc builds, painless setup, working on ubuntu. Well done all08:53
lbtit went on til late :)08:53
lbtdicebox: you're setup on c.obs too08:53
lbtvgrade: nice to hear08:54
diceboxlbt: thanks a lot!08:54
lbtdicebox: np08:54
lbtwhat were you saying about usb networking?08:54
Stskeepsvgrade: :)08:55
diceboxi'd like to be able to setup a nfs-root over usb networking, for now with the latest image of meego, and later with rem/nemo08:55
diceboxon a n90008:55
diceboxand i believe that the kernel is missing an option for the g_nokia module, the g_nokia cdc eem option, or something, which could explain why my n900 always disconnect immediatly just after the initrd boots successfully08:57
diceboxi'm setting up a nfs-root with meego-1.0 which i believe is the one i successfully tried nfs-root over usb net in past, just to check08:57
diceboxto check that's not my n900 which is wrong08:58
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diceboxStskeeps: you said that it would be simple to rebuild a kernel with obs and you'll help me, but do you have anything to add to the getting started with OBS doc? if not, i believe i can give a try alone with the doc, i'll come with my questions later09:12
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Stskeepsdicebox: right, find package kernel-adaptation-n900 in CE:Adaptation:N90009:21
Stskeepsthere should be a "branch this package" button?09:21
diceboxoh, i'm not yet logged in09:24
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diceboxi think i pressed the wrong button, i hope i broke nothing, went in the kernel-adaptation-n900 page and pressed the branch button, but i just noticed a branch from other package button in my home project09:32
Stskeepsor that09:32
Stskeeps.. why do i have a full copy of armv7l meego on my hd09:35
diceboxit's not me09:35
Stskeepscleaning up my disk atm / moving things into archive09:35
diceboxok, i found my local branch of kernel-adapt-n90009:35
Stskeepsis it buildign?09:36
diceboxit seems so, but i haven't modified it yet09:36
diceboxah ok, branches go in subprojects09:37
diceboxdo i have to wait the end of the build before modifying it ?09:38
Stskeepsconfig-* and kernel-adaptation-config* are the ones to play with files09:39
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diceboxi can't get the find button working when trying to edit one file10:00
lbtback later10:00
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vgradeok, I have my package built in the sdk using osc build, can I use createrepo tool to serv that from my website?10:38
Stskeepsis createrepo in mer repos?10:39
vgradeits not in sdk10:39
vgradecan't see it on cobs10:41
Stskeepsok, can you install 'yum' ?10:41
vgradeyum is in sdk10:42
Stskeepsyum-tools too?10:45
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lev123anyone here?10:46
Stskeepshi lev123 :)10:47
lev123who use nokia n800?10:47
lev123i recently bought one10:47
vgradeStskeeps, I have yum-3.2.29-13.1.noarch, nothing known from yum-tools10:47
lev123and what is the latest mer version for n800?10:48
lev123is the mer system usable?10:49
Stskeepsmer's just a core, you need to dump a UI on top10:50
lev123sounds difficult,haha10:51
Stskeepsnot really a end user thing :)10:51
Stskeepsvgrade: no createrepo in that yum?10:51
lev123man ,i dont really want to use the os2008 any long10:51
lev123ancient system it is10:52
diceboxi triggered a build of the kernel with the modified files, i haven't been able to edit them online, i wasn't able to use the find function, though it was able to detect i tried to find an empty string, anyway, waiting now10:53
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vgradeStskeeps, no11:25
vgradelooks like it has its own package
Stskeepswell we should package that up then11:28
Stskeepstask bug?11:28
vgradeI'll add a bug on tools/sdk11:30
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StskeepsSage_: starting to prepare to clean up mer architecture from packages perspective a bit, ..
Stskeepslbt: ,
Stskeeps(and the rest of you too)12:29
Sage_Stskeeps: looks good.12:38
Sage_Stskeeps: well Graphics/X11/Input Adaptation perhaps instead of Graphics/Input Adaptation ?12:39
Sage_And maybe same for Display & Graphics Adaptation12:40
Stskeeps perhaps, just going by meego arch diagram12:41
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vgradeStskeeps, running createrepo I get "ImportError: No module named deltarpm". deltarpm package is there but no python deltarpm.py14:32
Stskeepspython-deltarpm or something?14:33
vgradebetter now14:35
vgradeso to fix that the create repo needs changing to pull in that package14:36
diceboxi don't know what's wrong, but it's not working, it's like g_nokia has been broken , or something, i just retried with meego 1.0 it works, i'll try other versions, to see when it stopped working, what i observe is that the n900 is seen by the computer device as a usb device (all good) and just after it's disconnected, and there's no clue why anywhere i've looked at14:53
diceboxthis behaviour happens with or without g_nokia_eem, when with, it's not as a module, but i believe directly included in the kernel then14:54
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Stskeepslbt, go for .1 :)16:57
lbtwow - what a PITA that was16:57
Stskeepsi only found one bizarre issue so this release will have libjpeg-turbo-devel installed16:58
Stskeepsand i'm not going to do another prerelease for that16:58
Stskeepsas it doesn't bring in other stuff16:59
Stskeepslbt: i have a postit from several months back saying 'root causing a full release is a nightmare'17:00
Stskeepslbt: this release cycle shows why this is still a problem17:01
lbtin terms of lack of CI for image building?17:01
Stskeepsfor example17:01
Stskeepseven the best looking changes can cause problems17:02
lbtcomputers are too stupid to "just know that that change is fine"17:04
Stskeepsyes, i was referring to human reviews17:04
lbtme too17:05
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Stskeepshello jooncheol :)17:09
Stskeepslbt: did you read the g+ posts from above?17:09
lbtno, not checked log yet17:10
Stskeepsworth a look17:10
lbtyeah - interesting points17:15
lbtas bergie says - the maemo and now nemo/mer community app and QA is possibly taking us in the direction described17:15
lbtanyhow ... did you tag?17:17
tanukAre you familiar with Zero Install (
tanukTo me it sounds like a good approach for skipping the distro politics.17:20
tanukAnd distro schedules.17:20
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lbtI think I've glanced at it in the past17:22
Stskeepslbt: can do17:23
lbtStskeeps: yeah - I've not restored all my sessions after a reboot17:24
Stskeepslbt: done17:24
Stskeepstanuk: looks interesting17:24
jooncheolHi Stskeeps !17:25
lbtI think it matched /opt requirements quite well17:25
Stskeepsjooncheol: welcome :) so what brings you here to #mer ?17:25
jooncheolI'm exman on the morning,17:26
jooncheoland I'm jooncheon on the night :-)17:26
Stskeepsjooncheol: ah ;)17:26
Stskeepsjooncheol: well you're welcome anyway, even if you do have two personalities ;p17:27
jooncheolthank you for your welcome :-)17:27
jooncheolI recommended to use mer project for next proect to XX's product manager yesterday.17:28
jooncheol(I cannot let you know the XX :-) )17:28
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jooncheolcurrent project is using ubuntu 10.0417:29
Stskeepsthat's fine, if there's any questions you're more than welcome to ask here or on mailing list17:29
jooncheoland Qt4.7 based UI launcher17:29
jooncheolthanks :-)17:29
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lbtjooncheol: and if I can help in any of the systems areas, let me know17:32
jooncheolthanks in advance :-)17:32
lbtnp - making Mer work for vendors is our main goal - we're very pleased you'll be evaluating it17:33
jooncheolI was a big fan of MeeGo. I hope that my company work something using Mer again :-)17:35
jooncheolIs there any thing I can contribute for mer ?17:35
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lbtgiven you're looking at it for a product, then feedback (and patches) in areas where you have issues would be the most valuable17:36
lbtand yes, MeeGo's goals and vision hit all the right buttons with us too17:37
lbt(release is doing the grab phase FYI)17:38
Stskeepslbt: k17:38
lbtjooncheol: the two places we'd like to make particularly easy for vendors is the hardware adaptation and the SDK17:39
jooncheolunfortunately, my company is not h/w vendor. we are doing professional service for some vendors such like Samsung/LG/HP/BMW/Jaguar ...17:41
Stskeepsjooncheol: we call anyone using Mer directly vendors, hardware adaptations, integrators, UI projects, home hackers..17:41
Stskeepsas we deliver a core, they turn it into a product, or make a piece of something on top of mer that makes into a product17:41
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jooncheolyes, I understand the mer's direction. :-)17:43
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Stskeepsalright ;)17:44
Stskeepsbrb cooking17:44
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jooncheolIn case of me, I want be a home hacker who makes weird platform based on mer.  :-)17:45
jooncheoland I want to use Mer in the company If there is any chance ...17:45
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lbtgood goals17:45
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jooncheolAFAIK, several company still working on MeeGo/Genivi for their IVI platform. I hope that they change their base platform to Mer.17:47
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jooncheolIf so, I can have some chance to use Mer in the company :-)17:48
lbtwell, most will probably be looking hard at Tizen but we know that quite a few like what Mer has to offer17:48
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lbtin particular the opportunity to continue to use Qt17:48
lbtas well as the tight focus of Mer17:49
jooncheolwhat is the exact pronounce of Mer ?17:51
jooncheolMur ? me-r ?17:52
lbtI pronounce it like the french word for sea17:52
lbtStskeeps says it more like "Mur" - somtimes I wonder what he's talking about :)17:53
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lbtgood evening Alison_Chaiken17:54
Alison_ChaikenHuomenta, lbt.17:57
Alison_ChaikenI'm about to get up to some more sniffing of the CAN.17:58
Alison_ChaikenSort of like "Smell the Glove" in _This is Spinal Tap_.17:58
jooncheollbt: like this ?
* lbt offers to help if you ever need to measure high-G readings from the accelerometer17:59
lbtjooncheol: yes ... but my voice isn't so...., french18:00
Alison_Chaikenlbt, Edmunds promised me a ride on their test track in Southern California.18:00
Alison_ChaikenSo watch what you promise.18:00
lbtooh,,,  fun18:01
Alison_ChaikenI'll schedule the test drive to coincide with the Mer World Congress, to be held at nearby Disneyland.18:01
lbtmid 2013 should be about right18:01
jooncheolmer? mur?  Actually, I've pronounced like 'mur' :-) what's the exact pronounce ? :-)18:01
lbtjooncheol: the joy of text on the internet is that you get to choose18:02
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jooncheollbt, agree :-)18:03
Stskeepsdisneyland? well, that should cover the need for icecream shops18:06
lbtteeny bug? insofar as next is older than latest18:13
lbtOTOH we don't want all vendor OBSes to rebuild against -next == -latest18:14
lbtand removing -next would make OBS projects unhappy18:14
lbtso .... it's a feature18:14
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Stskeepslbt: how are you with sed and regular expressions?18:41
diceboxfrom what i understand in the source code, setting g_nokia_eem doesn't enable eem, but offers the option to enable it, which ten need the use_eem=1 on the kernel commandline for the g_nokia module, i will test that in the next hour(s)18:42
Stskeepsi need to convert /foo/bar/zoo:/baz/blah/poo:something -> /foo/bar/zoo:/somethingnew/poo:something18:42
diceboxi probably missed some doc, but it wasn't clear at all, and i didn't find references in google either18:43
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lbtStskeeps: pretty good18:50
lbteating right now ... gimme 10m18:50
Stskeepsi think i solved it now, after 6 hours of headache18:50
Stskeepsi was trying to fix the wrong regexp18:51
diceboxarrr, it seems to still remaining something wrong18:53
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Stskeeps <- my work today starting to pay off19:11
Stskeepsthis has base essentials compressed19:11
alteregoStskeeps: is xorg-x11-drv-fbdev missing from latest release?19:17
alteregoI'm trying to build an N950 image.19:17
Stskeepsalterego: define latest19:17
Stskeepsand show me your .ks19:18 :)19:18
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Stskeepssince we're doing a release right now, can you check with 0209.1 ?19:18
* alterego has a go19:19
alteregoYeah, that one seems to be working19:19
lbtalterego: gentle prod on wiki migration :)19:27
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Stskeepsyou know what i'm starting to realize about linux stack architecture?19:34
Stskeepsthe dependencies are starting to look an awful lot like rubberbands19:34
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lbtand it seems rare for code to move from one package to another19:40
Stskeepshow are we on release?19:41
lbtresizing fs on shell on cobs19:41
Stskeepswhen you prep the release notes, please remove the 'make pickupchanges' lines19:44
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lbtpull to obs carrying on19:47
e8johanStkeeps: did vgrade show you my tweaks/hacks to get Qt 5 building on the OBS?19:48
lbthe did - Stskeeps and Bostik were rather happy to see them19:51
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Stskeepse8johan: is that with a recent snapshot btw?20:03
e8johanStskeeps: yup, pulled the git Friday morning20:04
e8johanStskeeps: I had to add three or four files to and fix a typo in a patch20:04
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Stskeepsand how did it work when built, out of curiousity?20:04
Stskeepsi've been a bit out of the qt5 game myself due to other priorities20:05
e8johanalso, I skipped the patches to qtbase as they failed to apply20:05
e8johanit worked nicely20:05
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e8johannot the incredible performance gain that I expected, but that might have more to do with the graphics drivers than QT520:05
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e8johanI'm using EMGD right now...20:05
Stskeepsand i presume you've built for GLES, not GL?20:06
e8johanhmmm... I just assumed so, but I need to check20:06
e8johanthe configure call contains " -opengl es2", so I presume so20:08
e8johanand then I use the xcb qpa platform20:09
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Stskeepsmakes sense, not sure if eglfs does it on emgd drivers in case you wanted to test raw performance20:09
e8johanThe post-configure summary says "OpenGL support ......... yes (OpenGL ES 2.x) ", so yes20:09
Stskeepsgot a compositor up? that also affects performance at tiems20:09
e8johanI'm investigating that, or wayland20:09
e8johanI think mcompositor was running (I've got the target at the office, so I can't test from here)20:10
Stskeepsalways good to kill mcompositor before any kind of performance testing ;)20:10
e8johanor rather, can't touch the screen and see what happens :-)20:10
e8johanwell, I'll try that tomorrow20:10
e8johanor rather, on Monday20:10
Stskeepsjust giving tips :)20:10
Stskeepsalso, one other thing: libxcb of a latest enough version might also matter20:11
e8johanI'm happy about them - I just want to hit 60fps in a reliable manner - all input is valuaed :-)20:11
e8johanah, that could be something to look into20:11
Stskeepsi think the plugin utilizes some of the more later versions and if it's meego 1.2, it's fairly erm, old20:11
Stskeeps(i think)20:11
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* Stskeeps goes to back up his claim..20:12
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e8johanit is MeeGo 1.2 with some patches, so I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone has had any reason to update it, so I guess you're right20:12
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Stskeepshmm, shouldn't throw stones, looks like mer one is old too :)20:14
Stskeepswell, that goes into the bugtracker20:14
e8johanwhat's the latest version, cant seem to find that on the freedesktop site...20:14
e8johanjust found it :-)20:15
Stskeeps is task bug for mer20:15
Stskeepsthough, if i remember the sgx drivers right, they probably use libX11 directly20:16
Stskeepsbut might still affect qt20:16
e8johangreat, I'll try to get it to build in our MeeGo-ish setting and tell you if I had to do something20:16
e8johanit is well worth trying the update20:16
e8johanbut for my case, I believe that Wayland is the long term option20:17
Stskeepspatches welcome :) should ideally be just a slamdunk new-tarball, run specify20:17
e8johanquestion is how stable it will be in the short temr20:17
Stskeepsjudging by wayland mailing list, they've gone from one-two man project to a sustainable community by now20:18
Stskeepsso i think it'll get there pretty soon20:18
Stskeepsright, back to watching some tv, let me know how your experiments go20:19
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Bostike8johan: thanks for your effort, I've had my hands far too full to really do anything with qt5 packaging for a couple of months now20:29
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e8johanBostik: more than happy to be able to help20:29
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Bostikcoworker (ahma) took over and made some edits, I think I picked his changes to my repo yesterday20:37
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e8johanBostik: sorry, I got lost in my OBS... it does not look as if ahma took my patches, at least not at gitorious20:51
e8johanstill, he might not be working over the weekend20:51
e8johanStskeeps: I had to package xcb-proto to get libxcb to build, but both where very straight forward20:54
e8johanalso, I upgraded xcb-utils20:54
e8johanso, question is, how do I get it into your OBS :-)20:54
e8johan(yes I should RTFM)20:54
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Stskeepse8johan: , short version, longer21:19
Stskeepswe work with git trees and gerrit21:19
e8johanyay! no osc gibberish for me...21:19
Stskeepsdid you look at the instructions before saying yay? ;)21:20
e8johanI'm in the middle of getting Qt 5 to build again, apparently xcb-utils has been chopped up...21:20
e8johanno I did not :-D21:20
Stskeepslong story short, git clone, fix things in package, commit, push to gerrit21:20
e8johansounds oddly familiar :-)21:21
e8johanwhat if I need a new package?21:21
e8johan... I should read the docs :-)21:22
Stskeepsyou buy me a beer ;)21:22
Stskeepsseriously though, we don't have an official method except 'pester stskeeps until he agrees and makes a empty git repo to submit to'21:22
e8johanok, I'll just get it working on my side, then I'll start pestering your life...21:23
e8johanthat is my plan for now :-)21:23
Stskeepsafter submitting to gerrit we automatically run a bunch of build tests to verify it builds everywhere and in future we'll do significantly more,
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* Stskeeps yawns22:39
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* lbt attempts to program a remote control...22:40
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Stskeepsit sometimes surprises me how hard that can be22:42
lbtyup - I need to tell my programmable remote what mfg to pretend to be.... then see if all the buttons emit unique codes22:43
lbtthen scan all the codes into lirc22:44
lbtthen allocate button names22:44
lbtthen map them to functions22:44
Stskeepsi did that for that healthcare box i was working on first-mer for22:44
Stskeepsbloody annoying22:44
lbtbut at least I got my usb IR working22:44
lbtthen bend the pins on a lirc receiver and wrap tape around it ...22:45
lbtdamn site smaller than the breadboard one I made - but not as neat as the 'inside the serial plug' version22:46
lbtoh, update storm is running now22:46
lbtbeen going an hour or so I guess22:46
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lbtdid you pastie the pickupchanges?22:47
lbtor shall I just concatenate the existing email change logs22:48
Stskeepsremove the shell prompts22:48
Stskeepsie, prjfetcher@monster..22:48
lbtyeah - did I leave them in last time?22:49
Stskeepscan't recall22:49
lbtyou're just being very clear on that point and I'm thinking ... "well, yeah..."22:50
Stskeepswe need that changelog generator :P22:50
lbtwe do22:51
lbtI should have some time to work tomorrow - always more productive than during the week22:51
Stskeepsi'm a bit of the reverse at the moment, though i did get closer to looking a little more at mer architecture and making it representable22:52
lbtdid I share my groupings with you?22:52
Stskeepspackage groups?22:52
lbtlet me dig them out22:53
Stskeeps , while a bit confusing when it comes to edges, it does explain how some of the architectual pieces fit together22:53
Stskeepsie, we actually see the layering in practice22:54
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lbtso not looking at dependencies23:02
Stskeepsthat's based on source packages, aye?23:04
Stskeepsright now i would like to bring the state to where it was technically supposed to be in meego, then we can organise a little better..23:05
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lbtI was starting to think through what was code in Mer and what functionality lived in the vicinit23:06
Stskeepsstarting to look saner now23:12
lbtat the size I can read anything it's too zoomed in to be meaningful23:14
Stskeepsyeah, the edges aren't too pretty23:15
Stskeepsbut it does show what subsystems are made of23:15
lbti'll try a different app23:15
lbtexport to svg?23:17
lbtand what happpens if you take all the libs out?23:18
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Stskeepslbt: is without Base Essentials+ edges to it23:22
Stskeepsquite readable23:22
Stskeepsi could probably merge some edges going to same place23:23
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lbtyeah - that's a good perspective23:27
Stskeeps is with using the channel router23:29
Stskeepsi do wonder why fontconfig is so used in qt23:30
lbtyou mean why libqtdbus depends on it?23:33
Stskeepsno, why everything qt links to ti23:34
Stskeepseven qt-qmlviewer23:34
lbtI don't know what the lines represent23:34
lbtI'd assumed install dep23:35
Stskeeps file = it uses a file from there (/bin/sh)23:35
Stskeeps feature =, or pkgconfig(blah)23:35
lbtenthusiastic packaging?23:36
lbtany words on the release?23:43
lbt"This release updates several packages with new upstreams including openssl and some other security  updates; moves our cross compilation tools to the '486' target to ensure they run on any generic x86 system; there are updates to osc and build for the SDK; the mesa package is upgraded with llvmpipe to significantly improve SW rendering in emulations/VMs - the package is also renamed to mesa-llvmpipe23:45
Stskeepsre llvmpipe they need to be aware that the mer standard mesa no longer supports intel, so that responsibility is now in hardware adaptation23:46
Stskeeps, new tools: gdb23:47
lbtoh, yes, spotted that23:47
Stskeepsbsdtar, mesa 8.0.123:47
lbtyeah, I figured bsdtar was an incidental thing23:49
lbt"some other security updates"23:50
Stskeepsoh, and libjpeg-turbo23:50
Stskeepsfor faster image decoding on NEON/SSSE3 / SSE etc systems23:50
lbt"Note that as a result of the move to llvmpipe, the standard mesa in Mer core no longer supports intel hardware and this should now be handled in the hardware adaptation as expected."23:50
Stskeepsgpus, that is23:51
Stskeeps , if you wonder how the full madhouse looks like (minus libgcc, glibc, libstdc++ and bash for readability)23:52
lbt"for readability" ... uh huh23:54
Stskeepsbase essentials is a madhouse23:57
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lbt"weird stuff that makes up linux"23:57
Stskeeps90% of that goes away with busybox\23:58
lbt"we decided to switch to busybox to make our diagrams neater"23:59
lbtI've heard worse reasons for making a change...23:59

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