#mer log for Friday, 2012-03-16

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dm8tbrmrng06:29
timophhuomenta06:29
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* Stskeeps sips his coffee06:37
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virtualdGod morgon06:38
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vgrademorning07:05
Stskeepsmorn vgrade07:05
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niqtmorning07:14
Stskeepshttp://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/testplanner.png <- more for the qa tools box07:25
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Stskeepsi wonder what icon set is supposed to be used07:36
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iekkuwelcome E-P07:41
Stskeepsmoo o/07:41
E-Phi everyone07:42
KaadlajkE-P: hello07:47
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E-PKaadlajk: \o, how are you?07:48
KaadlajkE-P: still at Nokia for 2 weeks :P07:49
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iekkuKaadlajk, what after that?07:49
Kaadlajkiekku: nothing yet07:49
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Tumi_gonna get Raspberry Pi - how much effort would it take to make Mer work on it?07:52
KaadlajkTumi_: y007:52
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vgradehttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Community_Workspace/RaspberryPi07:52
E-PKaadlajk: still doing integration?07:53
StskeepsTumi_: install mer platform sdk, make image, enjoy07:54
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KaadlajkE-P: no new releases in a while, mostly I have been doing nothing07:54
Kaadlajkfeel like help desk person07:54
E-Pheh07:55
Stskeepsi've been playing with your guys' mcts/blts/mwts assets on mer, so far working ok07:55
Stskeepsthough i probably have some stupid questions regarding them at times/not entirely clear how they're supposed to work07:55
E-Pat least the mwts stuff might be a bit hard to understand time to time07:56
Stskeepswe'd probably start integrating them into daily mer work during next release, as validation and a lot of passing test cases is good marketing ;)07:56
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E-Pif/when you need help, I can try to help you out07:57
E-PI still remember something about them :)07:57
Stskeepsalright, if you don't mind me asking, what did you exactly work with?07:58
E-PIn the beginning, I was part of the mcts, creating tests for middleware components (mainly network, bluetooth, wlan etc)07:59
Stskeeps:nod:07:59
E-Plater, I was leading the OTS project and test automation in mcts07:59
E-Pafter MeeGo, being in charge of Qt Commercial release test automation at Digia08:01
Stskeepsah cool - we're thinking about for qt5 to run the test cases from there as part as well08:01
Stskeepsi don't think the qt4.8.0 set is terribly public, if i recall right08:02
E-Pyou are right, Nokia had some own stuff and Digia has some own tests08:03
E-Pbut the autotests in qt5 is good place to start08:03
Stskeepsa core is bloody difficult to test at times though, mostly because most of the software that it consists of was written in ages where test cases were only dreams08:04
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E-Pnow have to run now, I will be back later08:06
Stskeepssee you08:06
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Tumi_Stskeeps: I can also help whenever I can =)08:11
Tumi_ie during night-time :P08:12
Stskeepshehe, sounds great - what parts did you work on?08:12
Stskeepsi was following your qa & tools meetings but it's so long ago08:12
Tumi_mwts generally08:13
Stskeepsalright08:13
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Tumi_but in technical sense, it's been over a year. hopefully I still recall something :D08:13
pirutmorning08:13
Stskeepsmorn pirut08:14
StskeepsTumi_: we have testrunner-ui and -lite working at least, http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/hostbased.png08:14
Stskeepstimoph was going to resurrect eat for mer as well08:14
iekku:)08:15
Tumi_\,,/ excellent08:15
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Bostikoooohh yeah, there's been a float ABI related build fix in qtjsbackend08:22
Bostikmaybe it might actually build for all targets now08:22
Stskeeps\o/08:23
Bostikhttp://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtjsbackend/commit/0b1bc97509c34881b1ee2f3bc7283a5772be9a44 might just be what we need08:25
BostikI'll poke ahma once he recovers from stupor08:25
Stskeepsah, clever hack08:25
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Stskeepsmorn slaine08:36
slainemorn Stskeeps08:36
slainemorn everyone08:36
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timophStskeeps: yeah. on my todo list for the weekend08:47
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timophlooks like we're attracting more people from meego qa which is great08:52
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iekku:nod:08:52
* timoph is hoping to get one of the tr-lite developers on board (sampos or saunabad)08:52
* timoph asks08:54
Stskeepscan someone explain what exactly OTS does, btw?08:56
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timophsampos said "yes, gladly" \o/08:57
Stskeeps:)08:57
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iekkugood08:58
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timophots basically takes in test run requests (xmlrpc) containing info on what to execute, etc. and passes the info to ots worker that can install image, execute tests, collect results and so on08:59
Stskeepsah, so for automated testing08:59
timophyeah08:59
Stskeepsmakes sense08:59
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timophsampos: o/09:01
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samposo/09:01
Stskeeps'lo sampos, and welcome :)09:02
iekkuhi sampos09:02
samposhello :)09:02
Stskeepssampos: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/hostbased.png - tr-ui + tr-lite on mer against a remote exopc09:03
lbtmorning09:03
Stskeepsmorn lbt09:03
Stskeepslbt: we're just doing some sample tests of checking the release repos and then i think you can import to cobs09:03
Stskeeps(0.3)09:04
lbtOK09:04
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lbtI can import now anyhow can't I - just don't update mappings09:18
Stskeepsif you want to, yeah09:18
lbtyay ... X-Fade fixed search on c.obs  <<--- Sage_09:22
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lbtnow just give him a min to deploy it09:24
Sage_lbt: \o/09:25
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Stskeepshello sanj_kasi09:28
sanj_kasihi09:28
Stskeepswelcome :) so what brings you here?09:28
sanj_kasii was looking to find information on developing on an open source mobile OS platform09:29
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Stskeepswell then you're in the right place09:29
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iekku:D09:30
sanj_kasii am pursuing my 4th year of BE @ Manipal University, India09:30
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sanj_kasii have a group of friends who are interested in making a skype-centric mobile OS09:32
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Stskeepssanj_kasi: let's talk in here instead, i had to disconnect my mouse a bit to write a OS image :)09:34
sanj_kasifine09:34
Stskeepssanj_kasi: what kind of hardware are you working on?09:35
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sanj_kasicoming straight to the point, we are just starting out.09:35
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timophREMINDER: Mer Platform SDK status meeting starts in about 24 mins in #mer-meeting09:36
Stskeepssanj_kasi: it's a start :) if i were you, i'd try to install http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Platform_SDK first09:36
sanj_kasiif you could assist me in finding details about the supported devices or h/w it would be of great help09:37
sanj_kasiok thank you09:37
Stskeepsand then the discussion can be taken from there09:37
Stskeepsas well as look around on http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page , http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Community_Workspace and videos linked there09:38
Stskeepsto see what Mer can do with a bit of stuff on top09:38
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StskeepsREMINDER: Mer Platform SDK status meeting in 6 minutes in #mer-meeting09:54
lbtready for an updatestorm yet?09:56
Stskeepsi've validated exopc at least09:56
Stskeepsso i think so09:56
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lbtlost 12 workers09:57
lbtkicking them09:57
Stskeepswasn't my fault09:57
Stskeeps:P09:57
lbtnah - I can't catch this one - I've improved tmpfs handling - sometimes the tmpfs goes away when a job crashes09:58
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lbtso I check for valid mounts and retry the umount a few times09:59
lbtok - it's off09:59
Stskeepsi'm not terribly convinced about the multi-tmpfs approach, but that's a discussion for another time10:00
lbtyeah10:00
lbtI don't know how dynamic the single one is ... but... another time10:00
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* sledges got KDE PA2 with GLES, not perfect but big step forward10:12
vgradesledges, nice one10:12
sledgesit looks grainy (dotted), but not when I move windows around, dottedness temporarily disappears10:13
sledgesand does not support menu shadows (black rectangles instead)10:13
sledgesand glestest gets 0 FPS , but I see the hallucinogenic picture (still, not moving)10:14
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harbaumdm8tbr: Any news on the g9?10:19
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dm8tbrharbaum: poke _av500_ - I really hope it comes soon.10:22
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harbaumAh, sorry, he was the archos guy, not you .... :-)10:23
harbaumI really think mer needs an affordable, broadly available plattform asap to get some momentum10:23
dm8tbr*cough* there are even already images for gen9 *cough* if you know where to look *cough*10:25
Bostikthat's a bit of a chicken/egg problem, really10:25
Stskeepsharbaum: s/some/more/10:25
* dm8tbr is really looking forward to an updated kernel with SGX on X11 though10:25
Bostikif you followed rpi launch, it's pretty obvious that hardware vendors are not interested until the number of ordered units is hundreds of thousands - anything less needs a damn good reason for them to even lend an ear10:26
harbaumSome hidden image doesn't help to get awareness10:26
harbaumBostik: That's why re-using an established plattform is imho best atm10:27
Bostikaye10:27
Bostikhas to be rootable, should have decent GPU drivers whose maintanance is something other than "when GPU vendor can be arsed"10:28
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* Stskeeps hopes his llvmpipe work pays off for VM usage, too10:30
vgradeBostik, working on it with Spark or whatever its called today. Its hard though engaging the SoC vendors and ARM but were progressing on that front10:30
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Bostikpromising10:30
harbaumwhat does "whatever its called today" mean? Is there a new approach?10:31
Stskeepsharbaum: recall that there was a company that sent a cease and desist to sparkfun.com some year back or so?10:31
vgradeharbaum, name has been changed due to trademarks10:31
matrixxVivaldi :)10:31
Stskeepssome people who seem to think they own the word spark :)10:31
Stskeepshttp://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/03/spark-becomes-vivaldi.html10:32
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dm8tbrharbaum: oh, look hidden in plain sight :) http://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/mer_arm_install_archive/archos-generation-9/10:34
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Stskeepswe really need to set up that 'vendors' page..10:35
vgradeStskeeps, what wee you thinking for that10:36
Stskeepsvgrade: general idea of referring to hardware adaptation project pages/companies/consultants/ui projects/interest groups/etc10:37
harbaumdm8tbr: Any idea how well these work? SGX/WLAN/USB-Host?10:39
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harbaumI really think mer needs one pretty stable plattform to get peoples mouths wet10:39
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harbaumjust one, other will follow automatically if there aren't too big technological hurdles10:40
Stskeepswell, beagle is pretty stable isn't it? :)10:40
Stskeepsbut you're right, to some extent, but what really gets people also going is proper UIs10:41
Stskeepsthe bigger question is who we're trying to excite10:43
harbaumthe beagle is just one component, but nothing ordinary users are interested in10:53
harbaumi am talking about a complete device10:54
Stskeeps:nod:10:54
harbaumthe beagle is also too expensive compared to tablets10:55
slaineWhat about the nemo x86 builds10:55
slaineOr perhaps Cordia HD10:55
Stskeepswell10:55
Stskeepsthe telling story will be when we have actual mer products in the field10:55
Stskeepsand there's people working on that10:55
harbaumStskeeps: exactly. so the thing gains momentum10:56
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harbaumi'd buy a spark or g9 with stable image immedistely.10:56
Stskeepsand the best way, from mer side, to support that, is to continue making a good core and improve it, making it easier for people to push things to market fast10:57
harbaumsure, there's not much mer itself can do about that. but the archos guys could10:57
slaineWhat about the Nook color, Stskeeps you've one running Mer right ?10:57
Stskeepsslaine: yeah, but we're running into wifi issues10:58
Stskeepswhich reminds me i really should read some books sometime..10:58
slaineCould be a good cheap hackable mer tablet10:58
Stskeepsi think honestly what we need is good guides on how to combine mer, mer platform sdk, and hardware adaptations for a number of devices10:58
Stskeepstrimslice, exopc, virtual machine, n900, ..10:59
slainenod10:59
slaineand we're getting there10:59
Stskeepsyeah, a lot of puzzle pieces coming together10:59
slainethere's a lot of flux in the minute but the overall scope is pretty stable10:59
Stskeepsthere's actually more effort going into tools and documentation than core content atm11:00
Stskeepsbecause the core content is actually fairly good already11:00
slainenod11:01
StskeepsREMINDER: Mer advisory board meeting in 1 hour in #mer-meeting, agenda: http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00362.html11:01
Stskeepsnow to find out why my local pizza ordering service isn't taking orders..11:02
timoph:)11:02
slaineHmmm, taco chips for lunch today I think11:05
Stskeepsuhh.. i think someone screwed up11:11
Stskeepsit claims they'll deliver in 13 minutes11:11
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sledgesStskeeps, where does Mer stand in the face of Yocto ?11:28
sledgeswhen to choose which?11:28
Stskeepssledges: yocto probably has it's merits on deepily embedded11:28
Stskeepsi'm probably going to be semi-biased, so do a proper evaluation of both11:29
sledgesso small memory footprint?11:30
Stskeepsfor example11:30
sledgeswhat do you mean deepily embedded?11:30
Stskeepswe're more over in the interactive direction11:30
Stskeepsas in they can do uclibc based systems, we can't at the moment, for instance11:30
sledgeswhat about UX ?11:31
Stskeepswhat UX? :P11:31
sledgesfo yocto11:31
sledgesare they exist?11:31
Stskeepsthere's standard xfce and such, i think11:31
sledgesok11:31
Stskeepsi'm a little weak in that area, so please do evaluate them :)11:31
Stskeepsput an engineer to work on it for a day, if he's suicidal afterwards, it's not a good direction11:32
Stskeeps:P11:32
vgradejust read the sparkfun c&d, http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/news/SPARC_Cease&Desist.pdf bonkers11:33
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StskeepsREMINDER: Mer advisory board meeting in 5 minutes in #mer-meeting, agenda: http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00362.html11:54
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* Stskeeps ponders idly11:59
Stskeeps"   Upgrade to the latest version. This is just a library without any init scripts yet. So can't cause any harm in any cases since noone uses it in MeeGo 1.2:oss yet. Library has been extensively tested in Tizen Clamshell image."11:59
Stskeepstizen clamshell, i'm intruiged11:59
kimjuinit scripts for a library sounds odd too12:00
Stskeepswell, it's about libsmack12:00
Stskeepsso no surprises there12:00
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Stskeepslbt: BTW, 0.3: http://pastie.org/360793813:00
Stskeepslbt: .1 release tomorrow, it looks like13:00
lbtheh... http://pastie.org/360793913:00
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lbtbbias ... putting food on13:02
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vgradeStskeeps, from e8johan,  "three minimal tweaks and it builds and runs. Now, optimizing for performance"13:51
Stskeepsalright13:52
Stskeepspatches welcome :)13:52
lbtOK - so http://releases.merproject.org/releases/13:56
lbtthis should allow a vendor to run a simple MDS update on a nightly basis13:56
lbtor on demand13:57
vgradeStskeeps, Bostik, https://gitorious.org/~e8johan/qt-spec-effort/e8johan-qt-specs13:58
Stskeepsoh nice13:58
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harbaum_av500_: Ping14:02
lbtStskeeps: release tomorrow?14:10
Stskeepsyes, .114:10
Bostikoh, beautiful14:12
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BostikI picked ahma's changes as part of my repo (at last) so maybe we'll get something done again14:34
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Sage_lbt, Stskeeps: why next-release?15:20
rlinfatiHi, i can use harmattan sysroot as target of mer-sdk ?15:21
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Sage_lbt,Stskeeps: IMO next release isn't saying clearly enough that it is not stable and anything can happen.15:23
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slaine-next is a common tag for a staging area15:28
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Sage_it is?15:39
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Sage_well if that is true then it is ok :)15:39
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BostikSage_: at least for kernel folks, but they do tend to carry some weight15:49
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lbtSage_: my reasoning was because we have "last-release" and I did a s/last/next/ since the 'next' word is used in OBS already and I'm familar with it from kernel15:58
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Stskeepshttp://bi.gazeta.pl/im/4/11356/z11356904X,Awaria-cieplownicza-na-Sobieskiego.jpg <- i don't think i'll try to take a bus downtown today16:00
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slaineStskeeps: what is that, acid ?16:21
Stskeepsslaine: heating pipe from underground bursting in the midst of one of the most busy crossings in warsaw16:21
Stskeeps= boiling hot water16:21
slainenice16:22
Stskeepsof course, this might attract the finnish expat community to the place..16:22
slainewe'd something similar here a few weeks back, Guinness brewer generates a lot of steam, used to heat lots of buildings in the area, once of the pipes broke and lots of high pressure steam was escaping.16:23
slainelol16:23
Stskeepsone of the headlines in the newspapers was "sauna in <crossing name>"16:23
Stskeeps:P16:23
slainehehe16:24
slainePublic baths safety warning, watch out for passing traffic16:24
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sledgeshello16:36
sledgeshow was the board meeting?16:36
Stskeepsgood, minutes on mailing list16:45
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sledgesyup, just read16:55
Stskeepshow's your experiments going?16:56
sledgesstuck with Nemo16:56
sledgesuploading video demos at the moment ;)16:57
Stskeeps:nod:16:58
StskeepsNemo is a bit highend16:58
Stskeepsif you can, stop uxlaunch and get widgetsgallery running on it's own on a Xorg -noreset &16:58
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sledgesremember where I got stuck? nemo.ks made glestest crash Xorg17:00
Stskeepsright17:00
Stskeepsadd repos manually and install packages manually?17:01
sledgesI thought I would start stripping the nemo.ks towards mer-base.ks until it starts working17:01
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Stskeepsalso a direction, i'd start with removign package groups :P17:02
Stskeepsand keep the repos17:02
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sledgeswell17:04
Stskeepsalso show me your .ks17:04
Stskeepsthe mergedo ne17:05
sledgesthat's what I asked last time: are there any nemo-minimal.ks ?17:05
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sledgesmergedo ne? :))17:05
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Stskeepsthere might be over time but right now? no17:05
sledgesadapted from nemo-i586 (so no N9x0 bits in a way): http://pastie.org/360939717:07
Stskeepsand can i see your working glestest one?17:08
sledgeshttp://pastie.org/360943517:11
sledgesboth obviously were overlaid with same imx53 hardware adaptation patch17:12
Stskeepsxorg-x11-server-Xorg-setuid17:12
Stskeeps-xorg-x11-server-Xorg17:12
Stskeepsyou need this in nemo one too17:12
sledgesmight this be crucial for glestest? don't forget that with fbdev Nemo worked (at least booted to show some icons and then died )17:13
Stskeepsit might be, yes17:13
Stskeepsalso, why aren't you using the imx xorg driver?17:14
sledgesit is with imx that glestest crashes17:14
Stskeepsmmkay17:14
Stskeeps1) make sure xorg is setuid with ls -l /usr/bin/Xorg --on device-- 2) try to get xorg-imx going on the smaller image17:15
* sledges just understood what a line starting with - means :D17:15
sledgesStskeeps, xorg-imx works with KDE:PA2 and Mer:Base17:16
sledgesand I got KDE:PA2 gles accelerated no problem17:16
StskeepsMer:Base?17:16
sledges(video is being uploaded)17:16
sledges^ http://pastie.org/360943517:16
Stskeepsok, and glestest works with that one17:17
sledgesyes17:18
sledges(imx)17:18
sledgesso I'm currently mic'ing your point 1)17:18
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Stskeepsok17:26
Stskeepstime for food and doctor who..17:26
Stskeeps:P17:26
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sledgessame problem Stskeeps , xorg gets killed17:34
* bigbluehat blames Wayland ;)17:34
sledgeswith this error: http://pastie.org/360958817:36
sledgeshave a good weekend everybuddy!17:40
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sledges_wkend here's a failing Nemo demo, hope17:43
sledges_wkendwill put incentive to help out more :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fONTIbuGsnA17:43
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trip0how's wayland work?17:45
Stskeepswhat, where did wayland come in?17:45
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trip0no wayland?17:47
lbtwow - stripping out the office took far longer than it should have17:47
lbt*still* not done17:47
trip0how's mer on the beagleboard ?17:47
trip0and/or igepv2?17:48
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Stskeepsfine, afaik17:49
trip0excellent <evil grin>17:51
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trip0systemd?17:53
Stskeepsworking, for ages17:53
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trip0oh snap17:53
Stskeepsup to date, too17:53
Stskeepsminus some versions..17:54
Stskeepsthough, the systemd integration work in 1.3 by the intel guys made this possible17:54
Stskeepsso much thanks to them17:54
trip0:)17:54
Stskeeps(no sarcasm intended)17:55
trip0lol17:55
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Stskeepstrip0: did you see the ti board with CAN at half price?17:56
trip0no17:56
trip0hmm17:56
Stskeepssec17:56
Stskeepshttp://tideals.com/17:57
Stskeepslimited time offer17:58
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lbtStskeeps: I'll be around tomorrow for the release .... off now ... o/18:52
Stskeepshave a good dance18:56
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* Sage_ thinks he might be screwed. Laptop HDD doesn't respond.21:22
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Stskeepsi hope you have backups21:27
Sage_yes, but not new hdd21:33
Sage_The only thing is that I didn't push my image config changes today to git from my laptop :(21:35
Stskeepsaren't they in .kses21:36
Stskeepsso you can work your way back21:36
Sage_yes, it is quite easy. But that is only thing I lost I guess.21:37
Stskeeps:nod:21:37
Sage_might be just a fluke in boot but lets see21:38
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vgradelbt, osc build not working for me in SDK, did a zypper ref and zypper up which updated my osc, but still get http://pastie.org/361113621:56
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