Monday, 2012-03-05

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Stskeepsmorn05:37
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: you wake up early again05:42
Stskeepsyeah.. in my entire childhood, my father woke me up at 6:30am to get me to listen to a radio show for children, that i loved05:43
Stskeepsso if i get my sleeping rhythm nearby waking 6:30, i wake up there without alarm or anything05:44
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: it's a good habit to wake up early, which I try and try again05:45
Stskeeps:nod:05:46
Stskeepshow's the hardware decoding going?05:46
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Last Friday, I can use QMH to play mp3, then this week I want to use QMH to play avi files.05:48
Stskeepsalright, sounds like a good goal :)05:48
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: In fact, I make the audio sink and video sink with the hardware's player in SDK.05:49
Stskeepsok05:49
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: It means my sinks contains decoder and sink05:49
dm8tbrrandom sidenote: at least in case of OMAP3 it is more power efficient to decode mp3 on the CPU if you can spare the cycles05:49
Stskeepsdm8tbr: felipec did a blog post on this didn't he05:50
dm8tbrStskeeps: no idea, _av500_ told me05:50
Stskeepsok05:51
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: But I found qt-mobility use the xvimagesink orximagesink as default. So maybe I have to try to make a decode element05:52
ZiQiangHuandm8tbr: you means for mp3, it's no need to make a gstreamer plugin with hardware's ability05:53
Stskeepsyes, sometimes CPU is more power efficient than using DSP, i'm trying to find where i read that too05:53
dm8tbrZiQiangHuan: I don't know if it's the case for your hardware, it also depends if you are on a tight power budget or CPU constrained.05:53
Stskeepsbut i guess in your STB cpu might be more important for qtmediahub rendering05:53
Stskeepsvgrade: think we'll scale up r-pi mentions a bit more once we have sb2 sdk in place, this is a quite nice start05:55
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: when I do something in QMH, CUP is used heavily05:55
Stskeepsyes, as it's software rendering05:55
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yes, somethings 100% of CPU is used05:56
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: that's why GLES is a good idea, we can offload it on gpu05:57
iekkumorning05:58
Stskeepsmorn iekku o/05:58
* Stskeeps passes iekku the coffee pot05:58
iekkuthanks mate! needed that :)05:58
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: in fact, I'm not sure there is gpu in our device. Maybe I would try to find how to make a decoder for mpeg4 video stream with my device's SDK.06:00
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: yeah, there isn't as far as i recall (sonach told me the name), but anyway, it should be possible to do fast video anyway06:01
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yes06:02
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vgradeStskeeps, where are the src rpm's for a particular release held?09:43
Stskeepsvgrade: while a bit controversial, we don't have src rpms09:44
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Stskeepsvgrade: because they don't succeed their purpose in reproducing the actual build09:44
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Stskeepsvgrade: the git repos of the packages are the authorative ones09:45
vgradeand these can be extracted easily for a particular release?09:46
Stskeepsvgrade: -ish, you find the matching core git commit and note down what commit to look for in which git repo09:47
Stskeepssec09:47
vgradepeople are talking about the raspberrypi images not having source links09:47
Stskeepshttp://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer/project-core.git;a=blob;f=packages.xml;h=847919a7bbaa9ba597f773422722737af3319dac;hb=HEAD09:48
vgradewe probably need a script to do a dump for gpl purposes?09:48
Stskeepsi'll take it on to me explain09:48
lilstevievgrade, hi09:48
vgradelilstevie, hi09:48
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Stskeepsprobably, but in practice we've fullfilled our gpl purposes by providing the packages-git/ and fakeobs09:48
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vgradeStskeeps, ok i'm happy with that09:49
Stskeepsit is, after all, the method we use to build mer with09:49
Stskeepsvgrade: where does people ask about it?09:50
vgradeso we don't have to provide a cd on request09:50
lilstevievgrade, do you have prebuilt images for tegra2 that include egl drivers09:51
vgradethere was a discussion on #raspberrypi last night nick weasel09:52
Stskeepsvgrade: make a task bug to make scripts to give mer core source dumps i guess09:52
Stskeepsok09:52
vgradediscussion was about the debian and arch images but I thought I'd prempt questions about Mer09:52
vgradelilstevie, http://images.formeego.org/trimslice/ , a little old but has the egldrivers09:54
lilstevievgrade, L4T beta?09:54
vgradeissue is to get a matched kernel and libs09:54
lilstevievgrade, kernel I have09:54
lilsteviealpha doesn't support T309:54
vgradelilstevie, no. I think cxl000 was packaging the latest libs09:55
lilsteviehm ok09:55
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Stskeepsit's just a convention13:19
Stskeepswith me so far?13:19
lbtdon't quite understand link13:19
StskeepsOK, so, it's a distribution thing13:19
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lbtyou say it has to be equal13:19
Stskeepsif you recall, OBS will select '<packagename>.spec' to build first13:19
lbtso does that mean the from is the source to ensure13:19
lbtor does it mean there's an error if they differ?13:20
lbtOK - yes13:20
Stskeepsthe from is the source that gets provided, when you ask for 'to'13:20
Stskeepsand you're right, <package name=" " link=" "> would more logical13:20
lbtgood - that makes sense then13:20
Stskeepsuses in mer include cross compilers, ability to seperate bootstrap packages and their python bindings (file, python-magic), etc13:21
Stskeepsrpm, rpm-python13:21
lbtfwiw - if you put name first in the xml it'll be more human friendly13:21
Stskeepsok13:21
Stskeepsfile a task bug, it's a reasonable request13:21
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lbtrename <link> as a bug too13:22
Stskeepsyes13:23
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Stskeepsok, so, a technical detail, we have packages-git and we have a bunch of details we need to provide quite quickly about a package contents13:25
Stskeepssuch as md5 of the files, the srcmd5 of the package, etc13:26
Stskeepswhich isn't very fast to answer13:26
Stskeepsso we have packages-git/mappings.xml which is updated each time you update contents of packages-git/13:26
Stskeepsthe mappings cache basically walks through all branches and md5sum's these and assigns the correct srcmd5 and commit, and generated revision number13:28
Stskeepscommit at start of a git branch == 113:28
Sage__sry, was in another meeting during the bugtriage :/13:28
Stskeepsis fine13:28
Stskeepsrevision number is for OBS protocol uses13:28
lbtpackages-git? can't see it13:29
Stskeepspackages-git is basically == http://releases.merproject.org/packages-git/13:29
Stskeepspackages-git/mappingscache.xml is on a fakeobs and generated13:30
Stskeepshttp://pastie.org/352582513:30
Stskeepsthis kind of format13:30
Stskeepsfakeobs/mds213:30
Stskeepsmds2 will watch the timestamp of mappingscache.xml and re-load it into memory if need be13:31
Stskeepsmappingscache is needed because md5sum'ing things each time is too damn slow :P13:32
lbtyep13:33
lbtsrcmd5 ?13:33
Stskeepsmore obs magic13:33
Stskeepssec13:33
lbt.osc/_files13:35
Stskeepslbt: srcmd5 is basically is the md5sum of, for all filenames (sorted) "md5sum  filename\n"13:36
Stskeepslbt: and yes that's two spaces13:36
lbtouch13:36
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lbtdirmd5 kinda13:37
Stskeepsyeah..13:37
lbtinteresting ...13:37
lbtthat's going to matter for my _src thing13:38
lbtmaybe13:38
lbtanyhow... carry on13:38
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lbtStskeeps: actually ... break ... bbiab?13:40
Stskeepsok13:40
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slainestalled waiting on that RAM delivery13:56
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FluxiFlax2022hi what are the latest changes for the 01/03/2012 release ?14:05
Stskeepsin nemo or in mer?14:06
Sage__Stskeeps: should everything under %{_mandir} and %{_infodir} go to -docs package?14:11
Stskeepsideally, or at least marked as %doc14:11
Sage__and all %doc also to -docs?14:12
Stskeepsmm14:13
Sage__we should make a guideline for this14:13
Sage__%doc AUTHORS COPYING NEWS README THANKS TODO14:13
Sage__what should go where from those for example14:13
StskeepsCOPYING is a bit of a special case..14:14
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Sage__but rest to -docs?14:23
Sage__from that list that is14:23
Stskeepsperhaps, yeah14:23
Stskeepssorry, bbl14:23
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Sage__Stskeeps: normal http://pastie.org/3526241 ?14:34
Stskeepsyes14:34
Sage__ok14:34
Stskeepsit just tries to get as much debug source as is possible to aid debugigng14:35
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Sage__ok14:38
Sage__where mtools and parted are currently located in mer git?14:39
Stskeepsnot sure it's there14:39
Sage__ok, hmmp... where did nemo image get those then14:39
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Stskeepswell, they're in tools14:41
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Sage__oh, bugus output from my part14:44
* Sage__ goes to fix wget and screen to nemo tools.14:44
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Macerhttps://github.com/rails/rails/commit/b83965785db1eec019edf1fc272b1aa393e6dc5714:47
Macerlol!14:47
Maceropensource ftw14:47
Stskeepsthere's kittens in that thread14:48
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Macerstill pretty funny14:52
Macerthat thread right there is everything that is wrong with an open community14:53
Stskeepsdid you ever read youtube comments..14:54
Maceryoutube is an open community14:54
Stskeepsyeah..14:54
Stskeeps:P14:54
Stskeepseither way, not terribly relevant here, we don't have kittens, at the moment14:54
Stskeeps:P14:54
Macerreal work and projects get done in closed environment14:55
Stskeepslbt: back yet?14:55
lbtphone14:56
Stskeepsk14:56
Macermost real open src projects that are worth anything were done in strict private groups who eventually released code... with a few easter eggs from joe coder14:56
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StskeepsMacer: you're being a bit insulting at the moment, do me a favour and take it outside here14:57
Stskeepsand having a lot of misconceptions14:57
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Macer:-) didnt mean to be i am just looking a lot of projects and most good ones usually came from large companies and edus... i think the linux kernel might be a rare exception... but even linus has his way about strict organization14:59
StskeepsMacer: i think the ratio of suck projects is equally high in open source and closed source14:59
Stskeepsin closed source you just rarely hear about them15:00
Macerfair point15:00
Stskeepsit -always- helps to be paid, no doubt about that, but just because a coder is paid doesn't mean he won't deliver shit15:00
iekku:)15:00
Stskeepsand because he isn't paid doesn't mean he'll always deliver gold, either15:01
Macerbut then again.. not hearing about them is part of the structure. open source gets a fork of suck.. closed gets a fired developer15:01
Stskeepsyou'd be surprised how much it takes to fire a developer in a organization at times15:01
Stskeepsi recommend you read thedailywtf at times15:01
Stskeeps:P15:01
Macerlol15:01
Macerindia fires developers all the time.... india: the developers china15:02
Stskeepswhat does matter for all projects, closed or open, is that unless you have good structure, QA/testing and sane working methods, you'll end up with a bad project15:03
Macer:-) remember you said that15:04
Stskeepsi don't run weekly bug triages for fun15:05
Stskeeps:P15:05
Macerand you also dont give everybody a merproject.org shell ;-)15:06
Stskeepsthat too15:06
Maceropen is closed cells... seems the idea is broken somewhere15:07
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Stskeepsyou can't do a totally open project, it's practically impossible15:07
Maceri agree15:07
Stskeepsi mean, i'd love to document that i wrote a piece of code while on the can, but it's not really practical15:08
Macerlol!15:08
Maceri should do a research paper on it15:08
Macerit would make for an easy dissertation15:09
w00tStskeeps: you will forever be known to me as carsten "some of my best work comes during bowel movements" munk15:09
Maceryou think the story about einstien on the train was the real story? ;-)15:10
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slaineIt's the rush of blood to the head during the difficult moments that give the most benefits15:10
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* Stskeeps looks at boardname issue15:11
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lbtStskeeps: FYI I got a Hetzner notice about maintenance powedown at 3am15:42
phaeron1good time to upgrade ?15:42
phaeron1or did we do that already15:42
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lbtphaeron1: upgrade ... the OS?15:43
phaeron1obs15:43
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lbtI think that's mer obs15:43
phaeronok15:43
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lbtStskeeps: FYI the outage is until ~6;30 and affects phost1 (many of our VMs) so you may notice it in the morning. I may run a couple of reboots of phost1 tonight16:07
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lbtpost office ... bbiab16:16
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N900_rushello18:12
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timophwtf18:34
N900_rus?18:34
timophoh. sorry wrong channel :)18:34
N900_rus)18:35
* dm8tbr throws timoph a cookie18:37
timophomnomnom18:37
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Stskeepsjukkaeklund: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2837572/VisionMobile_Cross-Platform_Developer_Tools_2012.pdf18:46
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* Stskeeps curses18:53
Stskeepsdon't :quit the wrong screen session18:54
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timoph:)18:57
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dm8tbrbtw: now that the tizen stuff is starting to slowly creep out, how much does it share with Mer? I know no Qt, but underlying things? ofono? dbus? pulseaudio? etc.19:57
dm8tbranyone taken a look recently? Stskeeps maybe?19:57
Stskeepsdm8tbr: connman, pa, dbus at least19:58
dm8tbr*nod* about what I expected19:59
Stskeepsofono is a bit of an unknown19:59
dm8tbrright, the emulator doesn't need that?20:00
N900_rus:)20:00
N900_rusBy the way) Headlines language rather badly translated20:01
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vgradeStskeeps, hardfp Pi, https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware20:04
N900_rusCan esle you want to find a good word for ruska washed away ... Since there are errors in the nemo ruska language ..20:04
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Erenoh dm8tbr is here, I hope he's not ignoring me :P20:18
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Stskeepsvgrade: interesting20:25
dm8tbrEren: huh?20:26
Stskeepsvgrade: i'm not sure https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/hardfp/opt/vc/include/interface/vmcs_host is supposed to be there :)20:27
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vgradeI guess you already grabbed20:27
Stskeepswhat do you count me for.. ;)20:28
vgrade:), have apache liscense20:28
Stskeepsyeah, interesting20:28
Stskeepswifi hdmi, scary20:29
Stskeepsprobably not for the r-pi20:29
vgradeoh , the holy grail for wives20:29
vgradeno wires20:29
Stskeepsi've surprisingily married one who accepts cables, but along walls in trays(?)20:30
Erendm8tbr: tried to contact a few times before, I was joking20:31
Erendm8tbr: de ta1aet btw20:31
Erennice to see a ham here20:31
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dm8tbroink20:32
N900_rusхех20:33
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lbtStskeeps: I'm preparing to try a reboot of phost1... it may actually go smoothly ... it may not :)20:53
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Stskeepsok20:55
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N900_rusStskeeps>20:57
N900_rusAfter all, you develop a system nemo?20:58
lbthere goes....20:59
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lbtvm suspension looking good21:00
lbto/ web21:00
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lbtall suspended... rebooting21:05
N900_rus)21:06
lbtphost is back up21:08
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lbtStskeeps: have a poke around - see if all seems well21:14
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Erengood nite all21:26
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Stskeepslbt: vpn/dns lookup on monster seems unwell21:40
lbtOK - I found 1 problem with non-vpn ssh ... think I know what's up there21:41
lbtuhuh /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward is 021:41
lbtadded to /etc/sysctl,conf21:43
Stskeepsbbl sleep21:43
lbtOK21:43
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lbtI'll 'at' a shutdown at 2:45am21:43
lbtit should be up when you get up21:43
Stskeepsa shutdown of phost1 you mean21:44
Stskeepsand you're sure you can power on remotely?21:45
Stskeepsand not just reset21:45
lbtit's what the instructions say to do21:46
lbtthey're powering off the racks21:46
Stskeepsok21:46
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lbtdid you check to make sure you didn't get an email21:47
lbtspam folders etc21:47
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Stskeepsnothing therr21:48
lbtach ... never mind ... it's in 3 weeks ...21:48
lbthere's the email subject : WICHTIGE KUNDENINFORMATION: Stromabschaltung Ihres Servers (29. MXXrz 2012) / IMPORTANT CLIENT INFORMATION: Power suspension of your server (29th March 2012)21:48
Stskeepswell at least they warn in advance21:49
lbtexcept it's so long the last bit is hidden on my view21:49
lbtand the date's not mentioned in the body text21:49
lbtwell, we got a reboot test out of it :)21:50
lbthttp://pastie.org/3529155 FWIW21:50
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Oliver_hi21:51
Oliver_anyone responsible for mer around?21:51
lbtOliver_: yep21:51
lbthow can I help ?21:51
Oliver_please pm me ;)21:52
Oliver_im not able to start pm conversations using the webirc21:52
lbtStskeeps: I think the ipv4_fwd fixed it - vpn and dns seems OK now21:56
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rlinfatiHi.23:09
rlinfatiIn mer-sdk-i486-chroot-0.20120209.1.ks is a typo "chmmod" ; its chmod23:10
rlinfatilbt, i found a type s/chmmod/chmod/g  mer-sdk-i486-chroot-0.20120209.1.ks23:13
rlinfatibye23:13
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lbtthanks....23:14
lbtpushed fix23:18
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marcusgreetings!23:40
marcusi recently hit on the merproject page and started reading23:41
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marcusnow i'm bit confused, maybe you guys can give me some insight23:41
marcuswhats the difference between mer and tizen?23:41
marcusabout both projects I read that they focus on mobile platforms and provide html5 for app development23:43
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wmarone_tizen isn't really well defined just yet23:48
wmarone_mer is essentially a standardized platform upon which you can build pretty much anything23:49
wmarone_tizen should be the same, but I suspect it'll be much heavier weight and do things Mer doesn't23:49
wmarone_mostly in the way of providing a UI, which Mer leaves up to the OEM23:49
marcusi see. A (provocative) question: Since mer and tizen seems pretty similar, why dont you join the efforts? what do you want to dodifferently?23:52
wmarone_Mer is a fork from MeeGo, and as a result inherits a lot of the infrastructure23:55
wmarone_it also continues some of the design decisions, including focusing on the use of Qt as the primary toolkit23:56
wmarone_Tizen is currently taking place entirely behind closed doors, so no one outside Samsung and Intel could really be a part of it even if they wanted to23:56
wmarone_Also, Mer is completely open and utilizes an open governance model. Governance of Tizen, as well, is unkown but likely not to be nearly as open.23:57
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