#mer log for Friday, 2012-03-02

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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: When I play mp3 in my qtmediahub but no success, then I checked the xsession-errors carefully and found a message "open: Permission denied". Maybe that's the reason. Any idea about that ?	02:50
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Stskeeps	morn	05:05
Stskeeps	sonach: could you tell ziqianghuan to look if he's using a /dev/ file for mp3 play and check the permissions of that?	05:06
kulve	Interesting question in the mailing list: "[mer-general] Building Firefox with Mer SDK" (cross-comping for ARM)	05:07
Stskeeps	i'm seeing it as a good sign that people are -ahead- of what we're going to do next	05:08
Stskeeps	ie, sb2 enabled sdk	05:08
Stskeeps	it shows we have a pretty good feeling of what's actually needed to be done :P	05:08
kulve	true but it would be nice to say that "you can do it like this" instead of "you will be able to do it like this in the future"..	05:10
Stskeeps	yeah	05:11
Stskeeps	soon enough..	05:11
kulve	I'll be doing all my compilations for RPi in SDK locally so hopefully it's working soon ;)	05:11
Stskeeps	it'll be quite simple really - you'll be able to make a image with 'mic', init it as a sb2 target, run sb2 on top of it with fast zypper/rpm/gcc/bash etc and just build ahead	05:12
sonach	Stskeeps: good morning! I will tell ziqianghuan about this:)	05:14
kulve	is the purpose of the platform SDK to provide the right versions of the right tools? Could I in theory just install the right tools into my debian stable and skip the platform SDK stuff (just run mic directly in my debian)?	05:14
kulve	I think that's what I did with meego (although I had problems with "build" package etc..)	05:15
Stskeeps	kulve: the purpose of the platform sdk is to provide the right version of right tools as the problem was that a -lot- of people had all sorts of bizarre issues on various distributions	05:15
kulve	ok, then I understood it correctly :)	05:16
Stskeeps	which broke down the ability to ramp up people to use meego as there were more pages on how to fix those bizarre things than instructions how to use them ;)	05:16
Stskeeps	so yeah, sure	05:17
kulve	a bit OT for me but was there a plan to provide that as a bootable image for vmware etc.? Is it missing something else than a bootloader and the kernel?	05:19
Stskeeps	i'm hoping that we'll put out the reference images coupled with nemo projects' x86 adaptations, yeah	05:20
Stskeeps	with LLVMpipe	05:20
kulve	LLVMpipe?	05:21
Stskeeps	yeah, fast GLES software rendering	05:21
Stskeeps	we had 60fps on x86 virtualbox of libmeegotouch apps	05:21
kulve	ok	05:21
kulve	that's meant for running the target software?	05:22
Stskeeps	sure	05:23
kulve	and does it work also for arm?	05:23
Stskeeps	llvmpipe doesn't work on arm at the moment, due to bugs in LLVM's jit :/	05:23
kulve	I really dislike the meego way when the doc let you assume you'll be able to do what ever and later it turns out and they were talking about x86 only..	05:24
Stskeeps	yeah..	05:24
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Stskeeps	but the goal is anyway to let people develop mer + mer products in a VM without a device, without it being slideshow	05:25
kulve	I propose that the documentation talks generally only about the stuff that works both for x86 and for arm. If something extra (like running the target binaries with GUI) works only for either one, that's something documented separately as experimental	05:26
Stskeeps	:nod:	05:26
Stskeeps	makes sense	05:27
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Stskeeps	there'll be some footnotes for that in mer for sure, ie, availability of libGL API is x86 only	05:27
Stskeeps	and libGLESv2 is what you should use for portability	05:27
kulve	I guess the platform sdk doesn't support mips yet?	05:28
Stskeeps	i have a patch for 'mipsel' for the mic tools i wanted to upstream	05:29
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kulve	time for me to get to the office and continue with the ogles stuff	05:30
Stskeeps	alright	05:30
Stskeeps	see you in a bit then	05:30
timoph	morning	05:31
Stskeeps	morn timoph	05:31
* Stskeeps ponders to brew some coffee		05:35
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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: I'll check it as you just said.	05:41
Stskeeps	alright	05:41
Stskeeps	it sounds a bit like a /dev node with bad permissions you first see the problem when running as user	05:41
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: Maybe I run the command "gst-launch -0.10 -v playbin2 uri=file:///mnt/usb/movies/test1.mp3 " as the root user, qtmediahub is run by user mer	05:42
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: yes	05:43
Stskeeps	you should make sure your applications can run as user, running as root is bad :)	05:43
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: But how I can run the command "gst-launch-0.10" as user	05:43
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: su mer	05:44
Stskeeps	and test that way	05:44
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Stskeeps	hello machine2	05:56
sonach	Stskeeps: where is the source code of 'qmlwebkitplugin' in MerDS's source code? I cannot find it...	06:13
Stskeeps	sonach: qtwebkit i think	06:13
Stskeeps	warning: big big source code	06:14
sonach	I want to have a look at how qtwebkit is pluginned into qml.	06:14
sonach	ok,	06:14
Stskeeps	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.8-snapshot/qmlwebkit.html is documentation how to use it, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-extending.html is how to extend QML with C++ code	06:15
Stskeeps	er, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.8-snapshot/qml-extending.html might be better	06:15
Stskeeps	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtwebkit-bridge.html is extending webkit/html5 with C++ backend things	06:19
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sonach	Stskeeps: thank you for the links!	06:35
Stskeeps	np	06:35
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kulve	Stskeeps: so, I have pvrsrvkm.ko loaded and initialized succesfully and I don't know if I should get omaplfb.ko from somewhere. What to try next? :)	06:48
Stskeeps	kulve: well, pvrsrvinit (?) works fine i presume	06:49
Stskeeps	kulve: start up X, make sure libGLESv2.so.2 and libEGL.so.1 points to your SGX's libEGL.so libGLESv2.so	06:49
Stskeeps	and get mer-gfx-tests packae	06:50
Stskeeps	kage	06:50
kulve	I run that via "/etc/init.d/rc.pvr start" and based on the debug prints the pvrsrvinit is run fine	06:50
Stskeeps	ok	06:50
Stskeeps	and run 'glestest'	06:51
kulve	the SGX's installation script created the proper libGLESv2.so.2 and libEGL.so.1 links, nice	06:51
Stskeeps	oh finally some sanity	06:52
Stskeeps	the story is that the SGX drivers build system is so utterly screwed up that there's no way to get a proper soname in	06:52
Stskeeps	even intel ended up (when making modern sgx for their devices) just symlining	06:52
Stskeeps	linking	06:52
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Stskeeps	REMINDER: advisory board meeting at 12:00 UTC	07:10
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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: memmap():open /dev/mem error!	07:13
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: But I changed /dev/mem to "crw-r--r-- 1 root kmem 1, 1 Jan 1 00:00 /dev/mem"	07:14
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: eep, your hardware interfacing depends on accessing /dev/mem ?	07:15
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: Maybe	07:15
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: that's not good hardware interfacing :)	07:15
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: /dev/mem cannot be accessed by user	07:15
Stskeeps	as it would be a big security hole	07:16
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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: yes. But how can I solve this problem?	07:16
Stskeeps	not sure	07:16
Stskeeps	you can run things as root but that's not good either	07:16
kulve	it's so nice that the mer shell over the serial console has proper .. shell. E.g. ctrl-r works even over a boot :)	07:17
Stskeeps	kulve: yeah.. no promises it's going to stay like that, or well, you'd probably have a choice between busybox and the usual gnu toolset	07:17
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: you mean "chmod" can't solve this ?	07:17
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: correct	07:17
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: How I can make qtmediahub run by root	07:18
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: I see QMH is run by user mer now	07:18
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: moment	07:18
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch ,, add user=root	07:20
Stskeeps	instead of what is user= now	07:20
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: I will have a try	07:20
Stskeeps	this is a security problem, but since you're prototyping.	07:20
Stskeeps	.	07:20
kulve	Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/3502277 (I have no idea about the DRI2 and I guess GLX is something not used with OpenGL ES?)	07:21
Stskeeps	kulve: looks like your libEGL/libGLES is mesa?	07:22
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: yes. Maybe we will talk about this with the device's vendors	07:22
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kulve	Stskeeps: yeah. I'll take back that proper linking comment ;)	07:23
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Eren	hi folks	07:23
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Stskeeps	morn eren	07:23
Eren	Stskeeps: what's your timezone?	07:24
Stskeeps	Eren: UTC+1	07:25
Eren	Stskeeps: oh, you wake up early :)	07:26
niqt	morn all	07:26
Stskeeps	Eren: i've been up for 2h30m	07:26
Eren	niqt: morning	07:28
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: The content in /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch is all started with "#", It seems this file isn't be used now	07:34
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: it's used	07:35
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: you mean it's be checked by systemd ?	07:35
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: it's used by uxlaunch	07:37
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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: I changed it to http://pastie.org/3502377, I found the qtmeiahub is still started by mer	07:48
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: without the spaces	07:50
Stskeeps	just user=root	07:50
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ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: I can't log in my system now	07:52
ZiQiangHuan	udevd[62]: unable to receive ctrl connection: Function not implemented	07:53
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Stskeeps	what kernel version?	07:53
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: 2.6.35	07:54
Stskeeps	you might need http://git.angstrom-distribution.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi/meta-texasinstruments/plain/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-omap4-2.6.35.7/0001-ARM-6329-1-wire-up-sys_accept4-on-ARM.patch?id=05d8fa46706b147e91655651f3c479ae36107eb2	07:55
Stskeeps	in your kernel	07:55
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sonach	Stskeeps: Is there any method to change the permission of '/dev/mem'?	08:07
Stskeeps	sonach: disabling http://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/STRICT_DEVMEM.html -might- work	08:11
Stskeeps	but again, it's not a good way to use /dev/mem in the first place :)	08:11
Stskeeps	you should be able to get uxlaunch to start as root	08:12
sonach	Stskeeps: why now Mer starts Xorg with user "mer"?	08:14
Stskeeps	Sage__: was i586 still blocked?	08:14
sonach	Stskeeps: I find "user --name mer --groups audio,video --password rootme" in ks file. Does this matters?	08:16
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Stskeeps	sonach: yes, but uxlaunch usually autodetects	08:18
Stskeeps	sonach: set user=root in /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch	08:18
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sonach	Stskeeps: set user=root and patch the 2.6.35 kernel would solve this. is that right?	08:19
Stskeeps	well, i'm a little surprised it won't boot up earlier	08:19
Stskeeps	but yes, one of the ways	08:19
sonach	Stskeeps: OK:) Now we just start Xorg and qtmediahub after login to test other stuff...	08:20
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sonach	Stskeeps: after login, it is root:)	08:20
Stskeeps	ok	08:20
kulve	Stskeeps: not making good progress: http://pastie.org/3502500	08:20
Stskeeps	ok, can you try with glestest instead?	08:21
kulve	I think the mer-gfx-tests complain about libGL.so? I don't have that anywhere. And the sgx_init_test says "FAIL - PVRSRV_ERROR_NO_DC_DEVICES_FOUND"	08:21
Stskeeps	i'll check eglinfo	08:21
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kulve	I tested both, just sec	08:21
kulve	# glestest	08:22
kulve	No protocol specified	08:22
kulve	cannot connect to X server	08:22
Stskeeps	and this was with export DISPLAY=:0 ?	08:22
kulve	yes	08:22
Stskeeps	try to do it as 'mer' user	08:22
kulve	http://pastie.org/3502521 "Unable to initialize EGL"	08:23
Stskeeps	much better	08:23
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kulve	something flashes on the screen	08:23
kulve	and I am still missing the omaplfb of which I know nothing about	08:23
Stskeeps	can i see your powervr.ini and ls -al /usr/lib/libpvrPVR*	08:23
kulve	WindowSystem=libpvrPVR2D_FRONTWSEGL.so	08:24
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Stskeeps	right, that's -probably- wrong :)	08:24
kulve	http://pastie.org/3502526	08:24
Stskeeps	set it to X11WSEGL instead, ie, libpvrPVR2D_X11WSEGL.so	08:24
kulve	-bash: vi: command not found	08:25
kulve	-bash: vim: command not found	08:25
kulve	:(	08:25
kulve	-bash: emacs: command not found	08:25
kulve	!	08:25
Stskeeps	it's a minimal image	08:25
Stskeeps	nano or sed ;)	08:25
kulve	no nano either. Sed do exists :)	08:26
kulve	I used echo	08:26
Stskeeps	or cat ;)	08:27
kulve	same thing: http://pastie.org/3502550	08:29
kulve	I assume I don't need to initialize pvr before starting X?	08:29
kulve	currently I do the initialisation manually afterwards	08:29
kulve	"PVRSRVMetricsTimeNow: not implemented"	08:30
Stskeeps	okay, can you sanity check the libGLESv2.so.2 links and libEGL.so.1 and then look into how possibly you could build omaplfb.ko ?	08:31
Stskeeps	test with sgx_init_test	08:32
kulve	sgx_init_test still complains about the same (PVRSRV_ERROR_NO_DC_DEVICES_FOUND)	08:33
kulve	and the links poin to libGLESv2.so.1.1.16.3977 and libEGL.so.1.1.16.3977	08:33
Stskeeps	ok	08:33
Stskeeps	can i see the Makefile for sgx kernel driver?	08:34
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kulve	find -iname makefile\* \| wc -l	08:35
kulve	19	08:35
Stskeeps	sigh..	08:35
Stskeeps	:P	08:35
Stskeeps	Graphics_SDK_4_03_00_02/	08:35
Stskeeps	?	08:35
kulve	the kernel stuff is in GFX_Linux_KM	08:36
Stskeeps	yes, just wondering what version it was	08:36
kulve	that one, yes	08:36
Stskeeps	is it 4.03.00.02 ?	08:36
Stskeeps	o	08:36
Stskeeps	k	08:36
kulve	DISPLAY_CONTROLLER =omaplfb	08:36
kulve	that's in https://netst.org/pub/linux/ARM/OMAP/TI/Graphics_SDK_4_03_00_02/GFX_Linux_KM/eurasiacon/build/linux/omap3630_linux/makefile.shared_conf	08:36
Stskeeps	where did you pick up the pvrsrvkm.ko from?	08:37
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kulve	it's build with make and installed to my specfied directory. I guess it's copied from ./eurasiacon/binary_omap3630_linux_debug/pvrsrvkm.ko during the install phase	08:38
Stskeeps	ok	08:39
kulve	I can find omaplfb files only under omap3430 and dc_ti81xx, not from omap3630	08:39
Stskeeps	eurasiacon/build/linux/omap3630_linux/kbuild/Makefile:EXTRA_SUBDIRS += $(EURASIAROOT)/services4/3rdparty/dc_omap3430_linux	08:44
Stskeeps	wth is going on here..	08:44
kulve	hmm that 3party 3430 directory include only .. yes..	08:44
Stskeeps	it should really build the omaplfb	08:48
kulve	so it seems	08:48
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kulve	not sure if those MAkefiles expect different path in EURASIAROOT..	08:48
kulve	I'll have longer lunch break now but I'll continue debugging that then	08:49
Stskeeps	ok	08:49
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Stskeeps	good morning slaine	09:13
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slaine	Morning	09:16
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lbt	morning all	09:23
Stskeeps	morn lbt	09:23
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lbt	made some good progress on git packaging yesterday :)	09:24
lbt	feeling happy about that	09:24
lbt	Need to just check where the SDK is - I need to update the sdk in releases/	09:25
lbt	it's broken	09:25
lbt	AFAICT the fix I pushed yesterday to sdk-chroot fixes it though	09:26
ZiQiangHuan	Stskeeps: now I can play mp3 in my qtmediahub	09:27
slaine	morning lbt	09:28
Stskeeps	ZiQiangHuan: congratulations	09:28
lbt	hey slaine	09:29
slaine	I need coffee and food STAT	09:30
* lbt sips coffee from almost-not-leaking coffee maker		09:30
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lbt	so Stskeeps - how is 486 tools schedule looking?	09:35
lbt	tools=cross	09:35
Stskeeps	lbt: i found a bug and when changing this morning	09:35
Stskeeps	so waiting for updatesstorm to go through	09:36
lbt	OK - that soon eh?	09:36
lbt	:)	09:36
Stskeeps	i was considering a nap	09:36
Stskeeps	:P	09:36
lbt	I usually do that at ~3pm	09:36
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sledges	good mornign!	10:11
Stskeeps	good morning sledges	10:11
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* sledges just got SATA disk attached to imx53 running KDE Plasma PA2		10:11
sledges	instead of µSD card	10:11
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sledges	what a speed boost!	10:11
Stskeeps	how fast bootup?	10:12
sledges	bootup still slowish (but faster)	10:12
sledges	because some calculations are performed, not only plain disk read	10:12
Stskeeps	:nod	10:12
sledges	<30>systemd[1]: Startup finished in 4s 731ms 204us (kernel) + 1min 30s 543ms 254us (userspace) = 1min 35s 274ms 458us.	10:13
Stskeeps	still, not bad	10:13
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sledges	but that is before KDE PA starts booting	10:13
sledges	which is another 2-3 minutes	10:13
sledges	still an awesome down from 6-7	10:14
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Stskeeps	:nod	10:14
Sage__	Stskeeps: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=CE%3AMW%3AShared yes	10:15
sledges	now a big problem: the tilt sensor is acting as input device	10:15
Stskeeps	Sage__: huh	10:15
sledges	:) so if i rotate the board, i see the mouse rotating (and everytime being reset to the centre of the screen)	10:15
Stskeeps	Sage__: for the -old- repo?	10:15
Sage__	Stskeeps: yes the static release	10:16
Stskeeps	Sage__: ah.. the old version had a problem	10:16
Sage__	oh	10:18
Stskeeps	i'll look at it later today if it's ok	10:18
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sledges	hm, overall KDE PA2 on imx53 (from SATA HDD) boottime - 2min13sec !	10:32
Stskeeps	did you have GLES up yet?	10:32
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sledges	nope :)	10:34
Stskeeps	k	10:34
sledges	i had to make it run faster (not from sd-card) before moving ahead	10:34
kulve	Graphics_SDK_4_03_00_02 is a mess, imo	10:34
sledges	but can already show it to my boss :)	10:34
Stskeeps	kulve: yeah..	10:35
kulve	https://netst.org/pub/linux/ARM/OMAP/TI/Graphics_SDK_4_03_00_02/GFX_Linux_KM/eurasiacon/build/linux/omap3630_linux/makefile.shared_conf enables SUPPORT_OMAP3430_OMAPFB3 if kernel > 2.6.29	10:37
Stskeeps	and that DC doesn't exist, right	10:37
kulve	in that case https://netst.org/pub/linux/ARM/OMAP/TI/Graphics_SDK_4_03_00_02/GFX_Linux_KM/eurasiacon/build/linux/omap3630_linux/kbuild/Makefile includes dc_omapfb3_linux instead of dc_omap3430_linux	10:37
kulve	and that doesn't exist, yes	10:37
kulve	I explicitly added it but it won't compile.	10:37
Stskeeps	is DSS2 enabled in kernel?	10:38
kulve	SYS_CFLAGS += -DPVR_HAS_BROKEN_OMAPFB_H sounds a bit odd..	10:38
kulve	CONFIG_OMAP2_DSS=y	10:38
Stskeeps	DSS or DSS2 ?	10:38
kulve	$ grep -c DSS2 .config	10:38
kulve	0	10:38
Stskeeps	nm	10:38
Stskeeps	DSS, yeah	10:38
sledges	the files /usr/lib/GLES are there, but how to make them do stuff?	10:40
kulve	omaplfb_linux.c:145: error: implicit declaration of function 'omap_dispc_request_irq' and that one seems to be exported in drivers/video/omap/dispc.c	10:40
Stskeeps	sledges: get mer-gfx-tests and run glestest as user with export DISPLAY=:0	10:41
Stskeeps	kulve: perhaps a header to be included	10:41
kulve	yes	10:41
kulve	first thing one should always do (but I always forgot) after untarring a vendor tar.gz is: git init && git add . && git commit -m "..." -a	10:43
Bostik	oh yes	10:44
Bostik	very convenient ;)	10:44
* lbt notes that this may soon be part of standard packaging		10:45
lbt	although I may have to rebrand "packaging" because so many developers are scared of it...	10:46
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Bostik	must have something to do with associating "packaging" with "productisation and deployment"	10:51
lbt	either that or "being organised"	10:51
lbt	I suspect the latter :)	10:51
Bostik	I personally find it extremely inconvenient to have anything lying outside $HOME that doesn't come from packages	10:52
lbt	g by definition you're a sysadmin	10:52
Bostik	the only exceptions I make are the kernel and my manual mplayer builds	10:52
Bostik	hell, even all my own software I've written for personal use has proper packaging :)	10:52
kulve	for me $HOME is often on NFS and thus I often use /usr/local as well	10:52
lbt	hehe ... in that case I welcome you with open arms :)	10:53
lbt	I used to manage with /everything	10:53
kulve	Stskeeps: omaplfb: Maximum number of swap chain buffers: 2	10:53
lbt	but I have more than that now :D	10:53
kulve	some progress again	10:53
Stskeeps	kulve: progress :)	10:54
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kulve	and a kernel crash..	10:54
Stskeeps	boom	10:55
kulve	I no nothing about systemd. If I want a quick and dirty way to run "/etc/init.d/rc.pvr start" during the boot, where to write it?	10:55
Stskeeps	REMINDER: Mer advisory board meeting in #mer-meeting in about an hour, http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg00276.html	10:57
kulve	Stskeeps: http://pastie.org/3503294	10:59
Stskeeps	kulve: does it show anything on screen?	10:59
kulve	yes	10:59
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Stskeeps	kulve: congratulations :)	10:59
Stskeeps	kulve: now try qmlviewer -opengl ?	11:00
kulve	although it does it like qmlview: seems to be using 800x480 although my display is 480x800	11:00
kulve	thanks	11:00
Stskeeps	might be a framebuffer definition thing	11:00
kulve	no fbset..	11:00
kulve	[ 14.156] (--) FBDEV(0): Virtual size is 480x800 (pitch 480)	11:01
Stskeeps	framebuffer rotation wrong, or something, maybe	11:01
kulve	rotation = 0, var->rotate = 0	11:02
kulve	I'll debug that later	11:02
kulve	qmlviewer is quite smooth with -opengl :)	11:03
Stskeeps	good	11:03
sledges	glxinfo and egltest kill Xserver :)	11:03
Stskeeps	sledges: don't use those, use glestest in mer-gfx-tests	11:03
sledges	sorry that's what i used	11:03
sledges	just don't remember the names right	11:04
Stskeeps	looks like you don't have correct libEGL/libGLESv2 then	11:04
sledges	glestest and eglinfo	11:04
sledges	but they are not referencing them	11:04
Stskeeps	do you have your vendor's libEGL.so and libGLESv2.so and them named as libGLESv2.so.1 and libEGL.so.1 ?	11:04
sledges	probably it is not an immediate linkage	11:04
sledges	yes	11:04
sledges	i look at strace	11:04
Stskeeps	sure it's your vendors and not mes?	11:05
sledges	and they are opening other files than that	11:05
Stskeeps	mesa	11:05
sledges	its from smoku:imx:ha	11:05
sledges	i will try the latest	11:05
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Stskeeps	good morning phaeron	11:09
phaeron	good morning	11:09
Stskeeps	your kid feeling better yet?	11:10
phaeron	Stskeeps: he's ok already for a few days. there was another emergency that kept me away these days	11:10
Stskeeps	alright	11:11
Stskeeps	hope you're alright and the emergency over with	11:11
phaeron	well at least handled. wife's father operation on Sunday most probably	11:12
Stskeeps	:nod:	11:12
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kulve	Stskeeps: so, next steps? :)	11:16
Stskeeps	kulve: well, go take a look at nemo .ks and take it from there i guess	11:16
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kulve	ooh, nemo. Finally :)	11:17
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Stskeeps	i have some doubts if texture from pixmap will work correctly, but i guess you'll see	11:21
kulve	don't ruin my expectations! ;)	11:22
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kulve	Stskeeps: (or Sage__:) should I try with or without @Nokia N950 Support and @Nokia N950 Proprietary Support? I.e. should I include those and then just copy my SGX stuff over those? Or leave those out and just copy my SGX stuff to the rootfs?	11:32
Stskeeps	without	11:32
Stskeeps	leave them out totally, it's a different hw adaptation :)	11:32
Stskeeps	don't even add the repos for them	11:33
Sage__	kulve: as Stskeeps said. Should not install any of those packages to your image	11:34
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kulve	ack	11:36
kulve	and I guess all armv7hl -> armv7l?	11:37
Stskeeps	yeah	11:38
kulve	should I add these from the qmlviewer.ks: xorg-x11-drv-evdev xorg-x11-drv-fbdev xorg-x11-server-Xorg-setuid -xorg-x11-server-Xorg and maybe @Mer Minimal Xorg?	11:41
Stskeeps	yeah, probably	11:42
Stskeeps	you can probably switch to you and zuh's omapfb eventually	11:42
kulve	and related to my rpm arch problems, the nemo does these hacks (that I did with my meego chroot as well): "echo -n 'armv7l-meego-linux' > /etc/rpm/platform" and "echo 'arch = armv7l' >> /etc/zypp/zypp.conf"	11:42
Stskeeps	ok	11:43
Stskeeps	should autodetect for rpm at least	11:43
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Stskeeps	but you mentioned you had issues	11:43
kulve	yes	11:43
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kulve	those .ks files have something like this in them: "part / --size 500 --ondisk sda --fstype=ext4". Could I just skip that, when doing a tar.gz that I just untar to a sdcard?	11:46
lbt	g	11:47
lbt	kulve: I had the same concern	11:47
Sage__	kulve: you need some kind of line in .ks file when doing tar.gz but it doesn't matter	11:47
kulve	ok	11:47
Sage__	IIRC mic needs to know what kind of loop device it will create for the image build time.	11:47
lbt	the argument is that the size is/can be used by mic to validate that you won't burst your device	11:48
Stskeeps	kulve: your goal eventually is a replicate-able image at least	11:49
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Stskeeps	Advisory board meeting in #mer-meeting now	11:59
slaine	Hmmm, may as well setup fakeOBS on this server too	11:59
lbt	slaine: I usually run that on a discrete VM	12:00
slaine	That's what I meant	12:00
Stskeeps	jukkaeklund: #mer-meeting?	12:00
slaine	I wasn't happy with using openSuSe on the phost, so reset that up last night	12:01
jukkaeklund	yes, thanks for reminding	12:01
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slaine	allocating the lvm's atm, so decided I should add a small one for fakeOBS	12:01
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kulve	well, at least I see the nemo desktop :)	12:22
kulve	although I haven't started the SGX stuff..	12:22
Stskeeps	that's more worrying ;)	12:22
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kulve	I made a new rootfs, so I don't have those GLES links etc. in place	12:24
kulve	where should I start the rc.pvr?	12:24
Stskeeps	we're in a meeting, let me answer afterwards	12:24
kulve	ok	12:25
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sledges	Stskeeps, i'm one step closer: glestest shows blackscreen (same with qmlviewer -opengl), and eglinfo reports results	12:58
sledges	so i believe opengl canvas is just rendering somewhere offscreen (KDE PA2 standing in a way?)	12:58
Stskeeps	what does eglinfo say	12:59
kulve	I guess I should add something to /lib/systemd/system to run the rc.pvr before uxlaunch..	13:02
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djszapi	Hi! Is there a console environment apart from "osc" to test package builds locally to go through the trivial failures ?	13:03
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slaine	sledges: are you targeting an iMX53 based board ?	13:06
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kulve	I'm getting SGX crashes after starting the PVR stuff manually: http://pastie.org/3504010	13:17
kulve	although the uxlaunch is looping there anyway, so there are many things broken	13:17
kulve	but I need to continue that on monday	13:17
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sledges	slaine: correct	13:55
djszapi	lbt: Is there a console environment apart from "osc" to test package builds locally to go through the trivial failures ? Something like chroot environment or scratchbox(2) ?	13:56
zumbi	djszapi: osc chroot might do	13:58
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sledges	Stskeeps: eglinfo: http://pastebin.com/b6DYNE24	13:59
djszapi	zumbi: right	13:59
djszapi	anybody having "osc" working on Archlinux in here ?	14:00
eocanha	Stskeeps: I'm following the instructions in http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Local_Mer but when I reach the step of	14:02
eocanha	"Copy the prjconf": osc -A merci meta prjconf fakeobs:Core:${BS_ARCH} \| ...	14:03
slaine	lbt, what was the breakdown of the vm's you wanted me to create again ?	14:03
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slaine	I've got my phost setup, I've got a fakeobs one setup	14:03
djszapi	anybody using Archlinux in here for development ?	14:04
slaine	I've got details for setting up 2 other vm's, one for fe/api and not sure what the other was for	14:04
eocanha	I get a 404 not found from my local fake obs server. In my case it's: osc meta prjconf mer:Core:i586	14:04
lbt	slaine: we'll split them fe, be, worker for OBS. I tend to run MDS on it's own machine because I use debian for that	14:07
slaine	what's mds ?	14:08
lbt	djszapi: yes, osc chroot is very good for that (I assume harmattan?)	14:08
* slaine notes this stuff seems to change every time he looks at it ;)		14:08
lbt	for mer we have the new SDK but it too would use osc chroot for now	14:08
eocanha	slaine: MDS = http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FakeOBS	14:08
lbt	slaine: mds is fakeobs but better branding :)	14:09
slaine	Ah	14:09
slaine	Well, I've got MDS as a VM already ;)	14:09
lbt	good	14:09
slaine	Allocations you mentioned yesterday where, fe/api == 6G / 10G /var 2G swap 100G /srv	14:10
lbt	yes	14:10
slaine	Same for be, same for worker ?	14:10
* lbt thinks ... does fe need a /srv		14:10
lbt	no, it doesn't	14:11
slaine	if it's not actually building anything and hosting anything, I shouldn't	14:11
lbt	so /srv just on be	14:11
slaine	I'm assuming fe is only the webui and control code	14:11
lbt	yes, webui, api, mysql	14:11
djszapi	lbt: nope, mer.	14:11
lbt	djszapi: so, for now, mainly osc chroot	14:12
lbt	djszapi: we have the platform SDK too	14:12
slaine	Whats the difference between be and worker then ? I guess that's the next bit I'm not clear on	14:12
djszapi	lbt: platform SDK as in scratchbox ?	14:12
lbt	djszapi: I'm working on SDK SB2 right now	14:12
djszapi	liek on Harmattan ?	14:12
lbt	djszapi: no, nothing like except the spelling	14:13
lbt	slaine: the be will do a few things: scheduling, dispatch jobs, serve binaries, serve sources, publishing	14:14
slaine	and the worker obviously then does the compilations	14:15
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slaine	whats the benefit of separating out the be and the worker to different vm's then	14:16
djszapi	lbt: my use case is a scratchbox/chroot alike environment where I can catch typos and other silly stuff without rebuilding everything from scratch like with osc. Osc chroot works to a certain extent. I have never seen anybody getting it work yet on Archlinux. :/	14:16
lbt	yes - the worker runs the same osc/build that you would on a desktop	14:16
lbt	slaine: you'll have lots of workers	14:16
lbt	djszapi: I understand - that's my current task	14:16
lbt	the platform SDK will enable that	14:17
lbt	for now osc chroot is almost there	14:17
djszapi	lbt: eta ?	14:17
slaine	does the backend not spawn off workers as required ? I've got a single OBS VM at the moment that was able to rebuild from fakeOBS	14:17
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lbt	slaine: no, think build farm	14:17
lbt	https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor	14:18
lbt	each box is a 64Gb 4core machine	14:18
lbt	each row is a worker running on the box	14:18
lbt	djszapi: days	14:18
slaine	I'm not really sure that would be optimal for a small company	14:18
lbt	slaine: that's why you're running a single VM	14:19
slaine	I've got access to A server which will have 18GB RAM and 8 Cores,	14:19
lbt	you now allocate a 2nd box and run a couple more workers	14:19
lbt	OK - so you'll probably scale down the memory useage of the fe/be over time	14:20
lbt	and run some more worker VMs on it	14:20
djszapi	lbt: could you please drop me a query or email ? I do not follow the Mer happenings too often, but I would come back with packaging some stuff.	14:20
lbt	you'll probably run 2-3 workers on there using tmpfs	14:21
lbt	djszapi: what for?	14:21
lbt	when we have SB2 ?	14:21
lbt	maybe follow me on twitter if you do that - I rarely tweet anything non-Mer related	14:22
djszapi	I do not use twitter.	14:22
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lbt	ok - mer-general mailing list is fairly low volume	14:23
lbt	low enough that we don't bother having an -announce yet :)	14:24
djszapi	mmh, probably never mind since I need to get a package work before the PA sprint anyway	14:24
djszapi	which begins next Tuesday.	14:24
slaine	lbt, so on the above monitor page, each worker is a VM	14:24
lbt	OK - not sure what you're trying to actually do djszapi ?	14:25
lbt	slaine: on that deployment yes	14:25
lbt	slaine: on that deployment, no	14:25
lbt	:)	14:25
lbt	each worker is a physical host there	14:25
slaine	so on that deployment, each worker is a 64GB 4core machine ?	14:25
lbt	yes	14:25
slaine	wowza	14:25
lbt	meego wasn't poor	14:26
djszapi	lbt: package a dependency for KDE Mobile Application development.	14:26
djszapi	with zero rpm knowledge.	14:26
slaine	lbt, unfortunately, I am :)	14:26
lbt	slaine: Mer too	14:26
lbt	hence we spend our money on these http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s	14:26
slaine	So, for me, and my single server, and I'll likely never get more than a single server, I need to figure out the optimal setup	14:27
lbt	now that's a stonking good deal	14:27
lbt	you run one of them with openvpn back to the office and you get a fair few high speed workers for peanuts	14:28
slaine	pretty nice deal alright	14:28
lbt	just sayin :)	14:28
slaine	I wouldn't really need all that building power though	14:28
lbt	no, indeed - one worker is a fine start	14:28
lbt	djszapi: I think you'll be fine using osc chroot	14:28
lbt	what you may want to do is set one up	14:28
djszapi	yup, for the time being.	14:29
lbt	then cp -a it somewhere else	14:29
lbt	then mount --bind your home into it	14:29
djszapi	but osc does not work for Archlinux	14:29
djszapi	and I do not have access to the ubuntu server right now	14:29
lbt	OK, not a problem	14:29
djszapi	so I am kinda out of luck.	14:29
lbt	you download the SDK	14:29
lbt	80Mb	14:29
lbt	and install that as a chroot	14:29
lbt	and do it in there	14:29
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lbt	it's a little more fiddly but I'll talk you through it	14:30
ali1234	did you compare that against AWS starting builders on demand?	14:30
lbt	ali1234: no	14:30
ali1234	ok, fair enough	14:30
ali1234	i have no idea if it would be cheaper either	14:30
lbt	AWS had issues doing nested virt last time I looked	14:30
lbt	we need that for security	14:30
ali1234	ah ok	14:30
lbt	Hetzner give us raw metal so no nesting needed	14:31
slaine	Wondering if for the optimal deployment, I should have 1 fakeOBS vm, 1 fe/be vm and 1 worker vm	14:31
lbt	slaine: nag	14:31
lbt	nah	14:31
slaine	I could then in theory add other workers if other servers became available	14:31
lbt	even	14:31
ali1234	i guess getting bare metal will always be a problem for cloud services	14:31
lbt	ali1234: yep - nested kvm may help one day	14:32
lbt	slaine: the setup I described will give you the best flexibility	14:32
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lbt	and won't be improved by consolidating vms	14:32
slaine	I'm just wary that each VM will allocate resources away from the worker and that's the one that needs the most resources	14:33
lbt	the main drawback is that memory isn't dynamically allocated	14:33
lbt	don't overthink it	14:33
lbt	when you're talking $60/month for ^^^ your time is by far and away more important	14:34
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slaine	true	14:34
slaine	So, to recap	14:34
slaine	1 MDS vm, 1 OBS fe/api VM, 1 OBS be/scheduler VM, 1 OBS Worker VM	14:34
lbt	yes	14:35
lbt	you only need a single large /srv on the be machine	14:35
slaine	MDS and fe/api should be pretty light weight, 1 cpu, 512MB	14:36
lbt	acceptable start - MDS will go smaller, fe too probably	14:36
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slaine	cool, yeah, actually, I think I've my MDS one on my desktop down at 256	14:36
lbt	but the good thing is that you can tune that later	14:36
slaine	anyway, can change that	14:36
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slaine	snap	14:36
lbt	I wrote this ages ago: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Backend_Key_Components	14:37
slaine	so, be is the big one	14:37
lbt	yes	14:37
slaine	what about the worker	14:37
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lbt	setup as fe but more memory - 6Gb	14:38
lbt	you'll probably run 2 of them using tmpfs	14:38
lbt	this we'll have to suck and see as it depends on the apps you build	14:39
slaine	cool	14:39
* lbt -> coffee		14:39
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slaine	And then, be, big disk as discussed previously	14:39
slaine	what about RAM/CPU	14:40
slaine	I could give it all 8 CPU's as I think kvm is clever about how it distributes load	14:40
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slaine	but I'm not sure about how much RAM to allocate it	14:40
slaine	(also, I'm still waiting on my RAM delivery, so that might happen yet anyways)	14:40
slaine	I'll get the other VM's up and running	14:41
slaine	Thanks for your patience lbt	14:41
Stskeeps	eocanha: going out for shop, bbl 20m	14:41
eocanha	don't worry	14:41
lbt	np - don't forget that all this is adjustable - making lvs bigger is trivial, changing ram/cpu, the same	14:41
eocanha	I've located the physical path of the file in my MDS setup and I've copied the contents of the file by hand	14:42
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* slaine -> coffee		15:24
djszapi	anybody having on idea for this spectacle issue ? http://paste.kde.org/432344/	15:25
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slaine	lbt, back to the specs of the be and worker	15:29
Stskeeps	djszapi: OS?	15:30
djszapi	Stskeeps: Linux	15:30
Stskeeps	djszapi: okay, distribution..	15:31
djszapi	Archlinux.	15:31
Stskeeps	no clue then	15:31
Stskeeps	grab platform sdk, it has a working spectacle I believe	15:32
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Stskeeps	phaeron: btw, any news on the dawati artwork stuff?	15:53
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djszapi	Stskeeps: I see.	15:54
djszapi	thanks.	15:55
phaeron	Stskeeps: the git repos returned to normal afair and I built packages some time back	15:59
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Stskeeps	phaeron: alright	16:00
Stskeeps	phaeron: i'm planning a total revamp of my home IT and putting mer (almost) everywhere, so :)	16:00
phaeron	Stskeeps: I still have a bunch of interesting ux projects to try on top of mer	16:02
phaeron	just I don't have enough real life time right now	16:03
phaeron	:D	16:03
djszapi	make a time creator application xD	16:04
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djszapi	Stskeeps: the problem seems to be that this spectacle is not compatible with python3...	16:06
Stskeeps	djszapi: install python2.6 then	16:06
djszapi	it is "print()" in there.	16:06
Stskeeps	or 2.7	16:06
djszapi	I have.	16:07
djszapi	it picks up the wrong one, I believe.	16:07
Stskeeps	well, edit the #! then	16:08
slaine	vgrade: I was contemplating looking into what it would take to get b2g up on nitroid on the n900	16:08
slaine	so many ideas, so little time	16:08
Stskeeps	hopefully we'll turn mer into a playground for projects, where we have time to work on the actual projects instead of the base systems it needs	16:09
phaeron	Stskeeps: that is a very true statement	16:10
djszapi	Stskeeps: python2.7 setup.py build -> did the trick.	16:10
phaeron	imho the time it takes to try new stuff is low due to the small adequate core	16:10
Stskeeps	yeah	16:10
phaeron	and once you build the stuff once you can try many things with it	16:11
phaeron	but I feel the need to organize a middle ware project to share effort	16:11
djszapi	specify libkdeedu.yaml	16:11
djszapi	Error: Cannot open "/usr/share/spectacle/pkgconfig-provides.csv", maybe the package was not installed correctly.	16:11
djszapi	meh	16:11
Stskeeps	phaeron: yeah.. my own future idea is to have the toolbox for new ui types	16:12
phaeron	right now everyone copypacs stuff around	16:12
Stskeeps	yeah	16:12
slaine	I'm looking forward to getting a middleware and ux project setup for our internal hardware and then being able to port that to different hardware targets	16:12
Stskeeps	phaeron: Mer was originally meant to be for http://projectgrande.wikispaces.com/	16:13
phaeron	Stskeeps: I think the day made of glass video is a very strong depiction of that page	16:14
Stskeeps	yeah	16:14
phaeron	oh its linked there	16:14
phaeron	:D	16:14
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: what happened to Grande?	16:15
bigbluehat	never "made it"?	16:15
bigbluehat	or just spun off into things like Mer?	16:15
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: well, not exactly true.. hang on	16:15
bigbluehat	k…sorry	16:16
bigbluehat	(and thanks)	16:16
Stskeeps	http://gitorious.org/project-grande	16:16
* Stskeeps tries to find alterego's video of state transfer		16:16
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djszapi	so this was the final solution then: DESTDIR=/ PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.7 make install	16:18
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: http://hacking-mobility.blogspot.com/2011/10/qmlhtml5-application-state-transfer.html	16:19
djszapi	is this the expected output for specify ? http://paste.kde.org/432386/	16:19
Stskeeps	djszapi: depends, sometimes people do customizations in .specs	16:20
Stskeeps	don't try to download ${} stuff	16:20
djszapi	why	16:21
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Stskeeps	spectacle doesn't interpret rpm macros	16:21
djszapi	mmh, that is not so good ..	16:22
Stskeeps	send a patch	16:22
djszapi	no time, sorry :)	16:22
djszapi	no knowledge either.	16:23
Stskeeps	then a bug report works	16:23
Stskeeps	and we'll prioritise it in triage	16:23
djszapi	http://paste.kde.org/432392/	16:25
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djszapi	grep -rn bz2 libkdeedu.yaml	16:25
djszapi	9: - ${name}_${version}.orig.tar.bz2	16:25
djszapi	is this an acceptable schema ?	16:25
Stskeeps	yeah, check the .spec output	16:25
djszapi	it would be consistent with the debian way this form.	16:25
djszapi	http://paste.xinu.at/NusZi/	16:26
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Stskeeps	looks fine, though you probably need to specify files	16:27
djszapi	does not look too bad, whereas I, admittedly, have zero spec knowledge.	16:27
Stskeeps	that's why spectacle is cool	16:27
Stskeeps	brb, something screwed up in builder..	16:27
djszapi	specify files ?	16:28
Stskeeps	you'll see an error with "unpackaged files" when done building the package, use Files: section in yaml	16:29
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Stskeeps	to indicate what files are part of the package	16:30
djszapi	interesting, other PA packages do not use that.	16:30
Stskeeps	they probably have a .spec where its in >> files << files instead	16:30
Stskeeps	see the .spec	16:30
djszapi	right, so it is a post-modification after the specify run then ?	16:31
djszapi	their spec files indeed contain such files :)	16:31
djszapi	is there way to pass everything into one package ?	16:33
djszapi	perhaps with wildcards or other way around ?	16:33
Stskeeps	you can use wildcards but i would advise against "/*"	16:34
djszapi	so something similar to debian packaging when you do not have an install file, and just one "subpackage".	16:34
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djszapi	Although, I guess I can just redirect cat ./debian/*.install to this file	16:35
bigbluehat_	Stskeeps: sorry I dropped off	16:35
bigbluehat_	ma's being dumb today	16:36
Stskeeps	sec, ordering a noodle box	16:36
bigbluehat_	mac's	16:36
bigbluehat_	that is	16:36
bigbluehat_	:-)	16:36
bigbluehat_	no worries	16:37
djszapi	mmmh, there are specific variables, like libdir.	16:37
djszapi	bigbluehat_: do you develop on Mac ?	16:37
bigbluehat_	yep	16:37
bigbluehat_	like it most days	16:38
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: http://hacking-mobility.blogspot.com/2011/10/qmlhtml5-application-state-transfer.html	16:38
djszapi	cool :)	16:39
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bigbluehat_	djszapi: you?	16:40
Stskeeps	djszapi: %{_libdir} expands to /usr/lib	16:40
Stskeeps	phaeron: any idea why 'the-boss' quits/rejoins every 30 minutes?	16:42
Stskeeps	on the spot	16:42
phaeron	hmm that's new	16:43
bigbluehat_	brb	16:43
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Alison_Chaiken	Are Mer folks going to attend the May Tizen Conf?	17:27
Alison_Chaiken	Might there be a Mer satellite meeting?	17:27
Stskeeps	i submitted a talk at least	17:27
Stskeeps	on cross compilation	17:27
Alison_Chaiken	I can arrange meeting space here in SF area.	17:27
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sledges	Stskeeps: did you take a look at the pastebin eglinfo of mine ?	17:28
Alison_Chaiken	Cross-compilation in that a given Makefile has Mer and Tizen targets?	17:28
Alison_Chaiken	Like different linking?	17:28
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Stskeeps	Alison_Chaiken: "In this talk, the various challenges, current, previous and under development approaches to cross compiling whole distributions such as Tizen, MeeGo, Mer and others will be discussed and analyzed. Lessons learnt from MeeGo cross compilation within OBS will be presented and put in contrast to approaches within other open source projects. Ideas about doing different kinds of mobile systems utilizing cross compilation ...	17:32
Stskeeps	... methods will be discussed as well as the day-to-day impact on platform developers and application developers by the cross-compilation approaches chosen."	17:32
Stskeeps	sledges: try again	17:33
sledges	Stskeeps: eglinfo: http://pastebin.com/b6DYNE24	17:33
Stskeeps	sledges: looks ok	17:35
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Stskeeps	but nothing shows on screen?	17:35
sledges	nope	17:35
sledges	i will try the kernel from the same place where i took all of the graphics things	17:35
sledges	as i see stuff getting intertwined	17:35
sledges	/dev/gsl_mod	17:36
sledges	files under /usr/lib/{GLES,Q}	17:36
sledges	kernel modules	17:36
sledges	so will fight	17:37
sledges	on	17:37
sledges	nice weekend!	17:37
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Alison_Chaiken	Suppose the Tizen money people said, "We want to have a relation with Mer like that Redhat has with Fedora"?	17:38
Stskeeps	frankly, i'd be happy enough with tizen understanding their benefit in this world, ie, to make it a stamp for working web runtime with WAC, HTML5, Tizen apis	17:38
Stskeeps	the answer on that seems a bit unclear by now	17:39
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Stskeeps	my own opinion is that tizen is more valuable to the general open source community alive than dead, though	17:40
Alison_Chaiken	FWIW, I agree. Someone has to pay developers, who will do on their own time whatever they please, just as they always have done.	17:41
Stskeeps	but let's see.. meanwhile, mer as a lifeboat doesn't sound like a bad idea, we're making great progress	17:41
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Alison_Chaiken	mer is already going to be a success.	17:43
Alison_Chaiken	Hey, even Maemo is going to ship in new Volkswagens according to a guy I talked to at Embedded Linux Conference!	17:44
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Stskeeps	my deepest fear is still that someone found old Mer and reusing it for production purposes..	17:45
Stskeeps	:P	17:45
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bigbluehat	Stskeeps has skeletons in his closet…that people want :)	17:51
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* Stskeeps ponders idly what to work on tonight		17:52
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: you were going to say or send more about Project Grande, I think ;)	17:53
Stskeeps	yeah, i gave you an url above	17:53
bigbluehat	and also some photoshop related fodder from a couple days back	17:53
bigbluehat	yeah, saw that…thought there was more	17:54
bigbluehat	no worries :)	17:54
Stskeeps	and a gitorious url with actual code	17:54
* bigbluehat signed up for gitorious just for this ;)		17:54
bigbluehat	right :)	17:54
bigbluehat	are there screenshots on the wiki?	17:54
* bigbluehat is digging back in		17:54
bigbluehat	also, I tossed the wiki URL into #webos and swisstomcat (an HP dev engagement guy) said it looked like exciting/interesting stuff :)	17:55
Stskeeps	ah, there's an actual #webos ?	17:55
bigbluehat	:)	17:55
bigbluehat	yep, I troll there too ;)	17:55
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bigbluehat	and an #enyojs for their new framework	17:55
Stskeeps	i am fairly sure the reason HP bought Autonomy was for the 'a day made of glass' type of world	17:55
bigbluehat	well, rewritten framework	17:55
Stskeeps	yeah, i'm in enyo	17:55
Stskeeps	http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/grande/screencasts/20111222_003.mp4 is one of the (gpl) qml UIs we mocked up	17:55
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: you've used webOS yes?	17:56
bigbluehat	particularlly on the touchpad?	17:56
Stskeeps	i haven't actually tried it in person	17:56
bigbluehat	dude!	17:56
bigbluehat	you need to :)	17:56
bigbluehat	lots of similar ideas…at least from a conceptual level	17:56
Stskeeps	:nod:	17:56
bigbluehat	they have this Synergy account thing which integrates disparate info sources (mail, contacts, calendering sources) into a single "db"	17:57
bigbluehat	and from that into apps…Email, Calendar, Contacts :)	17:57
Stskeeps	good idea, didn't work so terribly well performance wise in n9	17:57
Stskeeps	i am a fan of json dbs though	17:57
bigbluehat	yeah, they're everywhere :)	17:58
bigbluehat	QT5 from what you (iirc) said recently	17:58
bigbluehat	I heart #couchdb	17:58
bigbluehat	MojoDB is #webos's	17:58
bigbluehat	and it's being open sourced this month	17:58
Stskeeps	:nod:	17:58
bigbluehat	replicates with #couchdb, etc	17:58
bigbluehat	sorry…I'm keeping you from code	17:58
* bigbluehat shuts up ;)		17:58
Stskeeps	nah, you're ot	17:58
Stskeeps	not	17:58
Stskeeps	i'm out of work at the moment so my 'workday' is kinda over by now, think i should just enjoy a nice evening and look a bit around the web	17:59
bigbluehat	out of work like "unemployed"	18:00
bigbluehat	or out of work, like you finished everything :)	18:00
Stskeeps	well, consultant temporarily without contracts	18:00
bigbluehat	ah, been there	18:00
Stskeeps	so not a terribly bad situation	18:01
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lbt	Been quiet - real world got in the way this afternoon - and tango tonight. I'll be around tomorrow morning though.	18:08
Stskeeps	have to enjoy weekends once in a while	18:10
* Stskeeps doesn't always work either		18:10
lbt	Denise spotted a "1920s market" tomorrow - so we're going to look for Art Deco stuff	18:11
Alison_Chaiken	I'm going on a long bike ride in the morning, and then in the afternoon I'll try to stay awak so I can pretend to work.	18:14
lbt	:)	18:14
bigbluehat	lbt: market sounds nice :) where are you at?	18:15
lbt	Reading, UK - it's at the hexagon	18:15
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: so, the idea i'm having is that if you really want to have a world like in the A day made of glass videos, you have to have frameworks and methods that enable people to quickly mock up and do these kind of environments	18:15
bigbluehat	lbt: nice…I'll check it out next time I'm across the pond ;)	18:16
Stskeeps	without terribly much need for learning platform specifics	18:16
lbt	bigbluehat: it's a one-off, probably not worth a zero-notice flight :)	18:16
bigbluehat	lbt: k.	18:16
* bigbluehat closes united.com		18:17
bigbluehat	;)	18:17
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: good plan	18:17
lbt	hehe	18:17
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: one step on the way is dragging designers and coders closer to eachother and collaborate (i'm from a research center in my uni studies that was big on cross-faculty collaboration)	18:17
Alison_Chaiken	When I worked for HP Labs, we had a video made in Bristol lab that was much like "world made of glass."	18:17
Alison_Chaiken	And when I worked for Nokia, the San Diego folks who worked on CDMA had made one too, although I don't know if it was ever released.	18:17
lbt	Alison_Chaiken: ah, I've had interviews there...	18:17
Stskeeps	where we had architects, graphics designers, coders, antropologists working together towards solutions for healthcare	18:17
Alison_Chaiken	Lots of things were never released from Nokia . . .	18:17
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: I'm both designer and dev, so I understand the need to keep the brain's hemispheres on the same page :)	18:18
bigbluehat	following so far	18:18
Stskeeps	Alison_Chaiken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4pDf7m2UPE was one	18:18
Alison_Chaiken	lbt, I had planned to relocate to Bristol to work with Anthony Sowden's team on ubiquitous computing, but Hugh Whatsit whole lab got shutdown at the moment I was about to accept the transfer.	18:18
Alison_Chaiken	Stskeeps, the video from SD was different: it was the cliched "day in a typical life in the future," assuming that you were a very wealthy white man in a Western country.	18:20
Stskeeps	:nod:	18:20
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: and one idea is simply that of being able to have a 'blank' mer device and quite easily deploy ideas and concepts to it	18:21
Stskeeps	and have guides to do that	18:21
lbt	Alison_Chaiken: name rings a bell	18:21
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: so, that's where things like photoshop to qml fits in	18:22
Alison_Chaiken	Anthony Sowden led HP's Nova e-book project, which was impressive for its time. The technical leads were Keir Shepherd, now at the Beeb, and Ben Wynne, whom I've lost track of. Those guys were ace! And also Lon Barfield, a smart UI guy from academia.	18:23
Alison_Chaiken	Oh well, so many bigcos, so many cancelled projects.	18:23
lbt	heh	18:23
* Stskeeps tries to recall a research project he heard about some time back..		18:24
Stskeeps	ah, there: http://oxygen.csail.mit.edu/	18:27
Stskeeps	they used to have code available	18:27
Alison_Chaiken	csail! The former home (as in sleeping quarters) of RMS. Maybe still is for all I know.	18:28
Alison_Chaiken	I'll be back at MIT in a couple of weeks for a visit.	18:28
djszapi	bigbluehat: cool	18:32
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bigbluehat	Stskeeps: k. back…and read up :)	18:33
* bigbluehat changed a diaper somewhere in there :)		18:33
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: if I'm tracking all this, you're looking for a super easy way to get designer/devs into a "production" (or at least prototype) stage with Mer apps	18:34
bigbluehat	correct?	18:34
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djszapi	bigbluehat: I might ask for help on Mac, if you do not mind.	18:35
Stskeeps	yeah	18:35
djszapi	pardon me, if you mind.	18:35
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: not so much app but involving them easier in the process	18:35
Stskeeps	bigbluehat: so it's darn easy to for example do digital signage	18:35
Stskeeps	i feel sick to my stomach when seeing they're using full-grade windows xp machines in the metro here to run info banners :)	18:36
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bigbluehat	djszapi: I'lld o what I can but I'm not up to speed on Mer dev on a Mac	18:41
bigbluehat	I can get you the hookup on building #couchbase and #couchdb on it tho ;)	18:42
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: yeah. detecting the OS on those signage installs are usually findable by the error messages displayed ;)	18:42
bigbluehat	Stskeeps: so you're driving toward what the next "first step" toward simple designer-as-app-builder would be?	18:43
bigbluehat	Photoshop 2 QML being a good obvious first step	18:44
Stskeeps	yeah, there is already an export script but it probably has deficiences	18:44
Stskeeps	like matrixx said the gimp one had	18:44
Stskeeps	ie, it was png exports	18:44
bigbluehat	ah, gotcha	18:45
bigbluehat	so what about starting with a simple "stencil" based approach?	18:45
bigbluehat	or something like Ares (a webOS thing...again)	18:46
bigbluehat	Ares 2 is supposed to be open sourced by summer, iirc	18:46
Stskeeps	looks like what qt creator can do with component	18:46
Stskeeps	s	18:46
* Stskeeps ponders how well the integration is		18:47
bigbluehat	yeah, I think I get what you're after :)	18:48
bigbluehat	how can I help?	18:48
Stskeeps	well, you're already helping	18:48
Stskeeps	i don't get to tap into designer brains every day ;)	18:48
bigbluehat	am I?	18:48
bigbluehat	ah. :)	18:48
* bigbluehat plugs his in via USB 3.0		18:48
bigbluehat	;)	18:48
Stskeeps	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Q4mrq2hl8 is qt designer with symbian components	18:48
Stskeeps	that's something like ares?	18:54
bigbluehat	quite similar	18:55
bigbluehat	these things are sadly a dime a dozen	18:55
bigbluehat	and none(?) of them interop	18:55
Stskeeps	yeah	18:56
bigbluehat	no reason they couldn't tho :)	18:56
bigbluehat	http://ares.palm.com/Ares/about.html	18:56
bigbluehat	look familiar? :)	18:56
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bigbluehat	it generates enyo, iirc	18:57
bigbluehat	or Ares 2 will	18:57
Stskeeps	:nod:	18:57
* Stskeeps looks at his $HOME		18:59
Stskeeps	time to clean up that beast..	18:59
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bigbluehat	Stskeeps: rm -rf .	19:02
bigbluehat	;)	19:02
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