Wednesday, 2012-02-29

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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps:  I can run the qt-mobility's demo called "player" to play mp3 audio files successfully. But when I use qtmediahub to play mp3 files, I can't make it run.02:00
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timophlbt: thanks05:20
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* timoph ponders about Mer platform sdk + raspberry pi05:21
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timophthe new script doesn't seem to mount home05:37
timophor parent root05:37
Stskeepsit should warn to use -setup o something05:38
* timoph reads the script05:39
Stskeeps <- auch05:39
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timophanyway, seems that we need to update the sdk docs05:40
Stskeepsthough i am pretty sure that when you drive a OSS project and not product programmes, you need less resources05:40
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: could you figure out what 'declarative' packages are in your image?05:45
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: What do you mean by "declarative" packages ?05:48
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: do you mean the verison of qt-mobility I use in my image?05:49
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: because we established your 'rpm' wasn't working, i need a list of all packages matching *declarative* from your image05:49
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: the image is created by sonach, so this is a part of the list
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: you need the package called libqtdeclarative-multimedia probably too05:53
timophrsync not in the repos that the sdk is using? (git depends on it)05:54
Stskeepstimoph: git depends on a lot of pakckages05:55
timophyeah but zypper only complains about rsync :)05:55
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I thought qtmediahub call the gstreamer throuth the qt-mobility, the libqtdeclarative-multimedia for what ?05:56
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: the situation with QML dependencies is a little more difficult05:57
Stskeepsah damn05:57
Stskeepslibdeclarative-multimedia is there already05:57
Stskeepsis there anything in .xsession-errors when you try to play a mp3 file?05:57
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Maybe no new messages happen in it, I'll check it again05:59
Stskeepsand to other pi people06:02
Stskeepsthe important thing is in bottom06:02
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: when I play a mp3 file in qtmediahub, no extra messages happen in .xsession-errors06:06
RaYmAnStskeeps: I think it's already too late ;P06:07
StskeepsRaYmAn: i'm a little unsure since there's nothing but 'express interest'06:07
RaYmAnStskeeps: yeah :/06:07
wmarone_the sites in question are already very, very dead06:07
RaYmAnI dunno if that means the first 10k was already sold within the first 1-2 minutes :P06:08
Stskeepsi doubt it06:08
Stskeepsthere's no way anyone could have completed it06:08
RaYmAn"Loading Tweets seems to be taking a while.06:09
RaYmAnTwitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information."06:09
RaYmAnnow their twitter is starting to die :/06:09
timophheh. looks like I have to wait a bit until I can place my rasp pi order06:11
* Stskeeps watches the smoking heap of farnell and rs06:14
RaYmAnYou'd think these resellers would have anticipated this :P06:15
Stskeepsthese people don't get launch-style traffic06:16
* Stskeeps looks around for 'links'06:16
jvd_There is osta(=buy) button on but that will give you "An error occurred while processing your request.06:17
Bostikthey should get some infrastructure design lessons from assembly organisers06:20
Bostik"design to match peek loads without glitches"06:21
Stskeepswell, otoh06:21
Bostiks/peek/peak/ of course06:21
Stskeepswhy are people smashing the sites if there's no longer the 10k limit?06:21
Bostikthey still want their hands on the devices asap06:21
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RaYmAnStskeeps: the regular building doesn't sound like it'll happen for another month06:22
RaYmAnso yeah =P06:22
StskeepsRaYmAn: The involvement of RS Components and Premier Farnell means that we can build volume much, much faster than would have been possible on our own. We are no longer limited to batches of only 10k Raspberry Pis; the Raspberry Pi will now be being built to match demand.06:22
Bostikbeing limited to 1 per buyer in the initial run actually prefers individual hackers06:22
RaYmAnStskeeps: "Today’s sales are limited to one per customer, so that as many of you as possible are able to get their hands on one. Starting in a month or so, you will be able to place batch orders with both Premier Farnell and RS Components for as many units as you want; you’ll also save some money on postage by doing this."06:23
Stskeepsyeah, that's for batch06:23
wmarone_"The registration is for UK based customers only, to see other regional sites please click here"06:23
RaYmAnit's not really clear if it means they are ready to build on demand right now or in a month :/06:24
kulveStskeeps: now that the RPi thing is settled, back to my problem :) The /bin/mount is setuid, does that need something special from e.g. kernel..?06:26
Stskeepskulve: it feels a bit to me as if there's some kind of security framework screwing up things, if you could grep SECURITY and ANDROID in the kernel config, that'd help06:26
StskeepsRaYmAn: , btw06:27
Stskeepsthough the site is totally hosed06:27
RaYmAnyeah :/ sadly06:27
timophso one has to first explicitly call sdk mount and then enter and remember to call sdk umount afterwards?06:27
timophseems a bit error prone06:28
Stskeepskulve: let me just compare with my own .config06:28
timophfarnell sold out06:30
wmarone_all phone sales or something?06:30
timophdunno. haven't been able to reach the site :)06:31
StskeepsSite unavailable06:32
StskeepsOur websites are currently unavailable whilst we perform a scheduled system upgrade.06:32
Stskeepsyeah, erm, right06:32
RaYmAnscheduled, lol06:33
RaYmAnIt's almost tempting to call them ;)06:33
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slainedid anyone manage to place a RP order ?06:33
slainekinda bitter sweet06:34
Stskeepsslaine: keep in mind they're already doing more than 10000 in batches though06:34
Stskeepsthey scale to demand06:34
slainechuffed there's so much demand, sad face for not getting one06:34
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timophI have the qtonpi code for it so hoping they remember to save me a board06:35
Stskeepsyeah, so, anyway: how do we make a good mer distribution for when people get it in their hands? :>06:35
timophI was pondering the same earlier06:36
slaineit's o6:36, I need coffee first06:36
Stskeepsah, the morons put it on engadget to06:36
timophon thing would be to make the platform sdk play nice with it06:36
Stskeepsyeah, of course06:36
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timophyou have build something for pi already?06:36
slainewas thinking that Qt desktop, Razor or something, would make a good QtonPi dev DE06:37
Stskeepstimoph: sure, we just need a kernel, armv6 file system and perhaps opengl es drivers06:37
Stskeepsit's not that terribly difficult :)06:37
slainegreat news that the model a board got a RAM bump06:37
timophalso madde sysroot would be nice to have06:37
Stskeepsalbeit that's more involved06:38
Stskeepsheh :)06:39
timophI know next to nothing about building madde sysroots :)06:39
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Stskeepsit's not -that- difficult06:39
timophbut willing to learn to get the ball rolling06:39
Stskeepsthe problem is just that it's not just the sysroots06:39
Stskeepsit's also matching cross compilers06:39
Stskeepsand :shudder: windows support06:40
timophwell yeah. I know people will want it06:41
Stskeepsthe good news is all the old meego 1.2 sdk sources are there.06:41
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timophnever even tried it with windows06:42
slaineperhaps I should try again06:42
timophtried the harmattan madde stuff though and it seems to work quite nicely06:42
timophas in used Qt SDK with windows :)06:43
Stskeepsslaine: :nod:06:43
Stskeepsslaine: i (honestly) think it should be possible, as they can scale up, even no more '10k' limit06:43
Stskeepsso once they have rescued the hd's out of the burning servers..06:43
timophStskeeps: anyway if someone start working on windows version of the sdk I can test it with my gaming machine06:44
slainetorn, want RaspberryPi, but would normally be on my way to work by now06:44
RaYmAnand the odds of actually getting an order in is minimal :(06:45
RaYmAnat least until things settle down06:45
Stskeepsengadget, twitter trending, etc06:45
Stskeeps.. and BBC news06:45
Stskeepsit does show well for open equipment though06:46
timophfarnell #3 and raspberry #4 in twitter currently06:46
Stskeepsgood(?) advertisement06:46
timophyeah. we should start putting MerOnPi there :)06:47
slaineUrchin, The Raspberry of the sea06:48
slainetime to go, I'll try again when I get to work06:53
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Stskeepsmdavey: i forget, is the r-pi usb-powered?06:56
Stskeepsie, the final boards06:56
timophlooks like an microusb adapter06:57
zuhStskeeps: The bundle is listing a power supply, though that doesn't *prevent* it06:57
mdaveyKinda.  They are powered by a micro USB power connector as found on modern mobile 'phones.  That's micro not mini.06:57
Stskeepsah, good06:57
mdaveyThat particular connector doesn't have the data pins connected - it is power only.06:58
timophso no shortage of power cables for it :p06:58
mdaveytimoph: yup06:58
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* Stskeeps ponders about 200/500mA usb need07:00
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Stskeepsokay, time to do some real work..07:22
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Stskeepsinsert password08:22
chouchouneno, just wanted to go to another weechat buffer ;)08:22
chouchounehello all, btw08:22
Stskeepshello chouchoune :)08:23
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* Stskeeps curses whoever thought it was a good idea not to carry the SKU for r-pi in polish shop08:37
kulvelocalhost.localdomain login:08:37
Stskeepskulve: congrats :)08:37
Stskeepswhat was the problem?08:38
kulveyes, that would be nice to know exactly ;)08:38
kulveI added those security related features one by one (that my stock ubuntu has) and now it works. I wonder what was the latest addition..08:38
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Stskeepsadd it to the wiki page if that's it08:39
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lbtmorning all08:44
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:45
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lbtjust read backlog :)08:53
* lbt notes farnel is down now, RS is up...08:53
lbttimoph: sounds like you had problems?08:54
Stskeepsi think a lot of people did08:55
* lbt meant with SDK :)08:55
slainePlaced an order with Farnell over the phone, I'll have to wait a while but so be it08:58
timophlbt: yeah. didn't figure out how the new script works at first08:59
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timophso you're supposed to explicitly mount first and then enter?08:59
timophand umount afterwards08:59
lbtI'll improve the usage text08:59
lbtmount when you first login to your desktop.. enter repeatedly from any console or anything else.... umount when you leave the mer project09:00
lbtor if you want to delete the sdk09:00
Stskeepslbt: please make the script instruct to run -enter09:01
Stskeepserr, mount09:01
timophsome reminder print about the umount when exiting the sdk might be good09:01
lbttimoph: you may be missing the point09:01
lbtyou don't need to umount ever09:02
timophI think I am :)09:02
timophI'm just worried that some people might mess up their boxes with rm -rf09:03
lbttimoph: it's true - use of rm -rf can hurt09:04
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lbtI think we should stop installing to $HOME09:04
lbtand install to /srv09:04
lbtsay /srv/mer/SDK09:04
Stskeepslbt: people's / partitions aren't as big as you think these days09:04
timophI think /opt would be ok as well09:05
timophbut in any case we need to move out of $HOME09:05
lbtStskeeps: we have to make compromises - we simply can't support people using the SDK who don't understand disk space issues or who don't know how their machine is partitioned09:06
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Stskeepslet's not be too elitist..09:07
lbtI wish we could ... but it's simply X people and Y hours in the day09:07
lbtI'm not09:07
timophmaybe some nice manage-mer-sdk-installation script would help09:07
lbttimoph: I think it would make it worse09:07
Stskeepswhat's the problem with $HOME, anyway?09:07
sonachStskeeps: When I run 'osc build' in platform SDK, I met messages like 'Trying openSUSE Build Service server for rpm (MerDS:Core:armv7l), not found at'. Is that normal?09:07
Stskeepssonach: fairly09:07
lbtif I want to delete some random directory in my HOME I should be able to09:07
timophfor me $HOME is a problem if we expect the sdk to be mounted all the time09:08
Stskeepshow about /home/$USER-mersdk ?09:08
lbtStskeeps: possibly - but that's not normal installation protocol09:08
lbthome is for users09:09
RaYmAnfwiw, I have a harddisk dedicated to dev stuff, seperate from my main linux installation. So being able to choose where it does stuff would be kinda nice :P09:09
lbtRaYmAn: you totally can - that's kinda the point09:09
Stskeepslbt: okay then09:09
Stskeepslbt: make a --prefix thing and you get to take the support calls for running out of space on /09:09
timophit's basically a documentation issue :)09:09
RaYmAnlbt: awesome :)09:10
lbtRaYmAn: yeah ... I have the same layout so you have no worries :)09:11
Stskeepslbt: as well as target disk space check09:11
Stskeeps"you need at least ... "09:11
lbtI'm not telling someone "you're safe to do this" in a script :)09:12
lbtsimply too unreliable09:12
lbtI'll document it of course in the install docs09:12
lbtit's the same reason I don't provide an uninstall or an rm -rf09:12
harbaum"You'll probbaly be fine with at least x bytes of free disk space"?09:12
lbtharbaum: yep - but in the pre-requisites of the wiki page09:13
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sonachlbt: what's the biggest space needed by platformSDK? I found that on my machine, it's about 462MB which is quite OK.09:14
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lbtsonach: I can't tell you the biggest as you can install lots of stuff into it - I can say the smallest and 'normal'09:15
Stskeepslbt: my worry is that you'll intentionally nuke someone's system because you couldn't be bothered to do a quick sanity check if we can actually install into it?09:15
lbtStskeeps: they're running tar xf09:15
lbtsonach:  checking now09:16
slaineOut of curiosity, where did the MeegoSDK install it self09:16
Stskeepsslaine: at one point, it rm -rf'ed stuff09:16
Stskeepsi think09:16
lbtdavid@ash_sdk:/maemo/mer/mer$ ./SDK486/mer-sdk-chroot umount09:16
lbt./SDK486/mer-sdk-chroot must be run as root - attempting to sudo09:16
lbtThere appears to be 1 chroot(s) still using this SDK09:16
lbtProcess(es): 1333209:16
lbtjust fyi09:16
lbtwhich, timoph, is why we don't umount on exit :)09:17
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timophI noticed that09:17
slaineRight, time to burn that OpenSuse 12.1 DVD iso and get the server phost setup09:17
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timophI think this will sort itself a bit once we update the docs09:17
lbt*nod* - they're open in my editor right now09:18
* timoph goes out for lunch. bbl09:18
slainelunch, I still need breakfast and coffee09:19
lbtsonach: a minimal SDK here is about 348M, with SB2 installed it's 445M09:19
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lbtslaine: those finns eat lunch so early09:19
lbtsonach: it's a lot bigger than I thought :)09:19
Stskeepslbt: with some obs caches it easily gets up09:20
Stskeepsand when we start having sb2 targets..09:20
lbtStskeeps: my cache is outside SDK and shared with desktop09:20
lbtI am documenting that too09:20
Stskeepslbt: yours, maybe09:20
lbtboth mic and yum09:20
lbtyeah - I know ... hey, WIP!09:21
Stskeepslbt: btw, took monster workers offline as i have to do some SB2-OBS benchmarking09:21
Stskeepsshouldn't be a problem09:21
sonachStskeeps: If I want to update to the latest version(20120209.1), I only need to 'make update09:25
sonachStskeeps: If I want to update to the latest version(20120209.1), I only need to 'make update' under mer-release directory?09:26
Stskeepssonach: is a little more complex.. you also need to upgrade your OBS software09:26
sonachhmm, well, how to upgrade my OBS software? is there any wiki pages?09:26
* Stskeeps looks over at our vendor guy09:26
Stskeeps(yes, i mean lbt)09:28
* lbt was editing wiki pages09:28
lbtSDK ones to be fair09:28
lbtsonach: checking09:28
sonachStskeeps: well, I just ask you about the method. I will do the upgrade stuff several days later since our code are building against 20120120.1.09:28
Stskeepssonach: yeah, we're working on good pages on how to do it09:28
Stskeepssonach: what OBS version is your current OBS?09:29
lbtsonach: you can do that with me09:29
sonachlbt: how to do ?09:29
sonachStskeeps: how to check the OBS version?09:29
Stskeepssonach: rpm -q --info obs-server09:29
Stskeepslbt: that's for setup, they already have a obs that's not our merproject one09:29
lbtMer has a special version of OBS that it uses to enable SB2 and other features,,,09:30
lbtso it too is a WIP :)09:30
sonachStskeeps: Version     : 2.1.1109:30
Stskeepssonach: and you were planning to set up a new OBS machine anyway?09:30
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sonachStskeeps: yes. Now the new machine has not come to my team yet. So maybe I can setup a completely new OBS on the new machine?09:32
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Stskeepsthat might be easier, since you're running OBS 2.109:32
sonachhmm. you mean 'OBS2.1' is not easy to upgrade?09:32
Stskeepsi -think- so, but lbt might have a different opinion09:33
sonachOK. I will not upgrade the OBS for the moment. and just use the '20120120.1' stuff:)09:34
lbtI'd suggest a new setup09:34
sonachlbt: OK,09:34
lbtwe did an upgrade from an earlier upstream OBS but we haven't checked how to do this for different versions09:34
lbtonce you run the Mer OBS you'll just upgrade as normal of course09:35
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lbtI *think* you could do it by doing an obs "vendor switch" in zypper - but not sure09:35
sonachwhat's "Mer OBS" mean?  Does it  descripted on
Stskeepssonach: we have a special version of OBS with some patches that is needed to run mer builds09:36
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sonachStskeeps: OK. So I think I should run Mer OBS when I setup the new server.09:37
sonachOK. that's good. I will yell out if I have questions when setup the new server. thank you in advance:)09:37
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lbtStskeeps: did you send out an RE meeting email?09:40
Stskeeps(not intentionally)09:41
Stskeepsfeel free to post it09:41
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lbtOK, I will do09:42
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cxl000Sage_ I found that COBS search works from the search page
kulveStskeeps: so, it works with CONFIG_SECURITY_FILE_CAPABILITIES and doesn't work without it. But I'm still not 100% sure if that's because of Mer or perhaps something else my kernel09:57
Stskeepskulve: OK, i'm filing a bug09:58
Stskeepsone to remember this wih09:58
kulveI also have CONFIG_ANDROID=y and it boots09:58
Stskeepsthat's fine09:58
Stskeepsit's PARANOID_ANDROID stuff that's not good09:58
kulvethat's "=n (not tested)" in the table09:58
kulveso I guess it could be removed from there?09:59
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lbtwe should remove that table and link to auto-generated one based on the code09:59
Stskeepslbt: task bug..09:59
lbtshortcut for task bug :)09:59
Stskeepskulve: so is the bootup log cleaner now?09:59
kulveshort summary of some important once is nice. If you have a working kernel config for e.g. Android it's annoying to go through some full config10:00
Stskeepskulve: we have a config checker, at least10:00
kulveStskeeps: yes. I see only a (known) complaint about readahead and some error about missing utmp group10:00
lbtkulve: is that from the config checker?10:01
kulvelbt: I don't know config checker10:01
Stskeepslbt: from bootup log10:01
lbtkulve some info here:
kulveI created the utmp group with groupadd and now the error is gone10:02
lbtkulve: line 79
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kulveI don't use OBS for building my kernel and the platform SDK doesn't include "mer"10:05
Stskeepskulve: ok, let's get a bug filed with it -- got the old errorstill_10:05
lbtkulve: OK10:05
kulveStskeeps: about the missing utmp?10:05
Stskeepsah nm10:05
Stskeepswe have a bug 14010:05
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kulveStskeeps: yes, same thing10:06
Stskeepsso known issue :)10:06
slainelbt, ok, to get the ball rolling this morning them, OpenSuse 12.1 install for the kvm host on the server10:07
lbtkeep it minimal, no X or desktop (I guess you know that :) )10:08
kulveStskeeps: you said that I should try the Mer Core before going to Nemo. Is there something special I should try in addition to logging in? :)10:14
lbtgraphics checks?10:15
Stskeepskulve: next step booting to framebuffer xorg + qmlviewer10:15
Stskeepsthen test with mer-gfx-tests in there10:15
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slaineThinking of getting a Pandaboard ES, anyone here got one ?10:15
lbtkulve: ^^10:15
lbtkulve: please feel free to extend the "Prepare X / Wayland and Qt" section10:16
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lbtit should talk about adding an X server or wayland package, then running mer-gfx-tests and the qmlviewer10:17
lbtthen I guess we should have something for video, sound, networking and similar10:18
Stskeepskulve: is a good reference10:18
kulveok, I'll try next the basic-qmlviewer.ks10:22
Stskeepswe try to do it in iterations for the simple reason it's easier to debug10:23
Stskeepsand how i myself do bringups10:23
kulveyes, makes sense10:23
slainecome on DVD, burn10:23
slaineSo, nobody has a Pandaboard ES then10:23
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kulveStskeeps: re: bug #140, should I try with my current .ks and add the libutempter package to see if it makes the utmp error go away?10:24
Stskeepskulve: i think it's just that we should indicate libutempter as a dep for systemd10:24
Stskeepspatches welcome ;)10:25
Stskeepsbut yes, feel free to try10:25
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kulveif I would create a patch, I should fork systemd to my home project, modify it, let OBS build it, add my repository to .ks, create the image, test it, do a pull request (or whatever it's called in OBS)?10:27
Stskeepswork on it in obs, then submit with git to gerrit10:27
Stskeepsand it goes through review process and testing10:28
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kulvethat's a long list but I guess I need to do it sooner or later anyway..10:30
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Stskeepsit's 'in detail', but in short it gets easy to script and become muscle meory10:31
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Sage_cxl000: oh, nice10:35
Sage_Stskeeps: yes, doing package update is like 10mins per package for simple updates including obs and gerrit submission (cc kulve)10:38
kulveyeah, well, it takes more than 10mins for me to remember how to use osc and how to get through company proxies with it.. ;)10:38
slainekulve: I'm in the same boat, only have a small % of time to dedicate to this10:39
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Stskeepshopefully we'll reach a point where rampup takes an hour or two and you're fully suitable to work on mer + products10:40
Sage_Stskeeps: could you add libutempter to mer core so I could submit that there?10:40
Stskeepsoh it's not in mer core?10:40
Stskeepsyes, i can10:40
Stskeepsahng on10:40
Sage_Stskeeps: it is in nemo mw shared10:40
Sage_thus nemo images do not see that problem10:40
Sage_k, thx10:41
Sage_kulve: I have fix for that utempter thing soon available in review. You can find the package from CE:MW:Shared project in COBS10:43
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* Stskeeps wraps up ongoing items and looks out at the sunshine10:57
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* timoph closed the curtains10:59
kulvehmm.. should the "osc" obey $http(s)_proxy?11:00
kulveit seems to be trying without a proxy11:01
lbtkulve: in SDK ?11:03
kulveyes but the "curl" does the same. Maybe I have something wrong in there.. "echo $https_proxy" looks correct though11:04
lbtit's not a tested area - I don't have a proxy (anymore)11:04
lbtit should respect it if it is in ENV11:04
kulvewe don't have a proxy authentication anymore. That's already a big improvement :)11:04
lbtstandard python stuff11:04
Stskeeps may be useful11:05
Stskeepswe use libproxy for some things at least11:05
kulve"curl" doesn't work, "curl -k -x $http_proxy" works11:12
kulveno white space errors. Not use if the bug 679322 is about something else..11:13
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Stskeepsanything in 'dmesg' about pacrunner?11:13
kulvein mine? no..11:14
Stskeepsor syslog11:15
kulveI have broke something. "sudo mic" doesn't get through either now and it did work yesterday..11:16
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Stskeepshello Eren :)11:20
kulveright, I figured out my proxy-problem. I had "http_proxy=..." in ~/.mersdk.profile without the export-commands11:22
Erenhi Stskeeps11:22
StskeepsEren: welcome - so what brings you here to #mer ?11:22
ErenStskeeps: wanting to get more information about what this cool thing is all about :)11:23
ErenI'm planning to buy Raspberry PI, will use it as a media center bundled with video, mp3, flickr, twitter thingies11:23
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StskeepsEren: hehe :) yeah, many of us are trying to buy too, though it's very hard at the moment11:24
lbtcool - Denise got answers on the non-profit setup. I'll explain at AB11:24
Stskeepsa -lot- of interest11:24
Stskeepslbt: ok11:24
lbt"Unincorporated Association"11:24
Stskeepslbt: sounds like something we need a pdf writeup of before meeting11:25
StskeepsEren: we have two R-PI's for Mer development, so we hope to have something good for it too, easy to work with11:25
lbtI'll see what I can do11:25
ErenStskeeps: so, what's actually "mer"?11:27
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Erenraspy have a decent debian install, X11 and other cool stuf11:27
Erenactually it has required drivers for BCM chip to decode11:27
Erenof course, it's what I thought from videos11:27
StskeepsEren: Mer is a core, gives you a solid linux base supporting Qt/HTML5/QML/Javascript and suited for mobile usage/smaller systems11:27
StskeepsEren: you couple it with a UI and a hardware adaptation (for example Raspberry Pi)11:28
ErenStskeeps: so, it's a standalone linux distribution, sort of?11:28
Stskeepsish, it's kind of a lego block to make products/prototypes with11:28
Stskeepswe also provide a bunch of tools to make it possible to scale from prototype to product11:28
Stskeepsit's a bit of an untraditional linux distro approach :)11:29
ErenStskeeps: well, you provide a framework, then?11:29
StskeepsEren: that's one way of saying it, but not entirely :)11:30
lbtEren: key thing is ... "who is Mer for?"11:30
Erenusually, I'm used to designing with QTDesigner and coding it with Python or C++11:30
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lbtEren: it's for people makeing devices - so they usually have their own hardware11:30
lbtand they want to make a UX11:30
lbtso we do the other bits11:30
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Stskeeps(or people wanting to make a UX..)11:30
* lbt thinks :)11:31
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lbtas much to cut'n'paste from (or assign chunks to irc macro keys)11:32
ErenI feel retarted :P It should not be hard to understand the concept or there is not much document/example to read :)11:32
lbtEren: it's also nice to engage and chat11:32
lbtrather than say "read the page"11:32
StskeepsEren: long story short: a lot of effort in companies go into doing a mobile linux stack of their own - and often the work is something that can easily be shared amongst many different companies11:33
StskeepsEren: because vendors much rather want to focus on doing good hardware, and/or make good UI11:33
lbtEren: but should get you started - please say if it's confusing - we'll fix it11:33
Erenok, I've a Raspberry PI, or I've made a PCB which includes cool stuff and I want to run linux11:33
ErenI got linux on, by patching softwares and cross-compiling11:33
ErenI have a terminal11:33
lbtyeah - I should be mentoring you on that11:33
Erenand I want a UI11:34
Erennow what? :)11:34
lbtyou wait for my raspi to arrive and me to get it setup11:34
lbtI'm writing up the platform SDK instructions right now11:34
StskeepsEren: so, in your recipe, with mer, you have your hardware, you do the hardware adaptation, you install a mer image on top, customize it to your device and add a UI on top11:35
lbt(got bored, came for a chat)11:35
Erenlbt: I've read the index page, however, it's not instructive11:35
Erenit would be good to give examples11:35
lbtgetting some QtCreator stuff into your own project is the next step11:35
Erenmaybe, from 2 different aspects11:35
StskeepsEren: you don't need to worry about making cross compilers, what version of glibc and patches you need, etc, that is delivered11:35
Erenone aspect from a manifacturer of a device11:35
lbtEren: we'll be revamping the www soon11:35
kulvehmm.. I'm now getting a new error when running mic. It downloads something but then:11:35
kulveError <mount>: Bind-mounting '/var/tmp/mic/cache' to '/var/tmp/mic/imgcreate-rb0sCY/install_root//var/cache/yum' failed11:35
Erenand the one aspect from a consumer11:36
kulveException AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'px_proxy_factory_free'" in <bound method ProxyFactory.__del__ of <libproxy.ProxyFactory object at 0x94b522c>> ignored11:36
ErenStskeeps: ok, then it's an image for a raspy or other devices11:36
lbtkulve: does /var/tmp/mic/cache exist?11:36
Erenyou just dd it, and it's setup?11:36
Erenand build apps on the platform, using the libraries provided by mer11:36
kulvelbt: yes11:36
lbtEren: your mission .... is to make that image for your customers11:36
lbtEren: we make that easy for you11:37
Erenok, using the mer tools, I build an image, add applications using the libraries that Mer provides, and release the image11:37
lbtkulve: can you pastie the command too11:38
lbtdid you sudo mic ?11:38
kulvelbt: sudo mic create fs mer-core-armv7l-xorg-basic-qmlviewer.ks -o . --pkgmgr=yum --arch armv7l --compress-disk-image=tar.bz211:38
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kulvealso I noticed that sudo "./mer-sdk-chroot umount" -> "Unmounting all directories... (30 found)". Then mount + umount and it unmount 31 directories, then 32, 33 etc.11:39
lbtyeah,  /var/run/shm11:39
lbtbind mount doesn't record it as mounted in the chroot11:40
kulvels: cannot access /var/run/shm: No such file or directory11:40
kulveshould I have that inside the chroot?11:40
lbtwhile sudo umount /var/run/shm; do true;done11:40
Erenlbt: oh okie, others would like to see this information on the webpage :)11:41
lbtkulve: no - don't worry about it11:41
Erenlbt: Stskeeps thanks for your help btw, it has been a long time since I was welcomed this warm :)11:41
lbtEren: yeah - we need to structure and expand it11:41
StskeepsEren: we try to have a friendly atmosphere here - we're from many different companies11:41
lbtkulve: the mounts are taken care of for you11:41
StskeepsEren: because we're all interested in not having to all the system work ourselves :)11:41
lbtthats a minor bug11:41
Stskeepsto do, that is11:42
ErenStskeeps: hehe :)11:42
ErenI'll probably reporting bugs or start hacking when my raspy comes. I'll need a decent mediacenter :)11:42
lbtkulve: give me a bit11:43
StskeepsEren: is Mer used to make a phone (Nemo project uses us as a core), is the Plasma Active UI on top of the Spark tablet, - Qtmediahub on trimslice11:43
StskeepsEren: just for some examples of how Mer can be used11:44
ErenStskeeps: thanks, I'll be watching them11:45
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ErenStskeeps: so, what happened to Tizen, or Meego?11:45
StskeepsEren: MeeGo died, Tizen .. well, they released beta release11:45
Erenactually, Tizen is the new name of Meego, I guess11:45
Stskeepsit's not really11:45
StskeepsTizen is a completely different codebase11:45
Stskeepsbased off samsung linux platform11:46
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lbthey phaeron11:46
StskeepsMer's derived from the MeeGo 1.3 work and many of us are from meego11:46
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StskeepsMer takes a different approach :)11:46
ErenStskeeps: nice, not tied to a company then :)11:47
Stskeepssort-of - we're not primarily driven by one single company, instead many different contributors from different places11:47
Erenusually, when a company kills a product that uses an open source project, it gives up support11:48
Stskeepsi pitch in with some server costs, others pitch in with other things, some contribute, etc11:48
Erenan example would be QtJambi11:48
Stskeeps is the Mer governance structure (active)11:48
Stskeepsi'm the project architect currently11:48
slaineopens use requires a /boot partition, lame11:48
ErenStskeeps: thanks for the information11:48
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ErenI need to go right now11:49
Stskeepssee you11:49
Erenhappy hacking! :)11:49
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Stskeepswe really need some webcast videos on the website11:49
Stskeepsexplaining mer11:49
lbtOK , I've hacked on and am now proofreading it11:50
lbtcomments welcome11:50
lbtmention them here since I'm still editing it :)11:51
lbtoh for a piratepad plugin11:51
Stskeepsadvanced details are out of date now isn't it11:52
lbtI have new usage in script which I'll paste in11:53
kulveStskeeps: I'm following the Contribution_in_detail. There's "osc branch Mer.MDS:Core:i486 systemd". I guess I should use "Mer:fake" instead of "Mer.MDS"? And what should I put instead of i486, armv7l or armv8el..?11:54
Stskeepsi486 is fine11:55
Stskeepsif you want to test it on device, armv7l11:55
kulveon a device, of course :)11:55
Stskeepsgenerally everything that is in mer can be developed on x86 too11:55
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kulveI tend to compile on x86 and run on ARM11:55
kulvethere's always something differently in the two11:56
Stskeepsyou can always add extra repositories to build against11:56
lbt"60 Product results found for “raspberry pi” orly"11:56
slaineI placed a pre-order with Farnell for the next batch11:57
Stskeepsi can't order from pl.farnell :/11:57
slaineI phoned it in11:58
slainesales rep said they where taken totally by surprise and it was manic in there11:58
lbtI think phone is good - I have a voucher :D11:58
slainethey had no access to the site either.11:58
slainehow does the voucher work, are Farnell/RS versed in what to do ?11:59
Stskeepsthere's some people who talk about that it's not for that sie11:59
lbtI wonder if the sales/marketing people at Farnell/RS are going "WTF... how the hell did we miss this market"11:59
Stskeepsi'm waiting for quim to talk11:59
slaineI hope that means people with vouchers are coming from a ring fenced batch11:59
kulveStskeeps: actually should that have been armv7l or armv7hl..?11:59
lbtslaine: yes11:59
Stskeepskulve: armv7l or armv7hl, i don't know what your target is :)11:59
Stskeepshl is hardfp12:00
jukkaeklundso is there a place where to put that rPi code?12:00
kulvewell, arent's everybody using hl nowadays? :)12:00
slaineWhat's the difference between ARM5tel and ARM6 ?12:00
lbtsite not loading12:00
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slaineTry phoning your local farnell number12:00
Stskeepskulve: it makes it difficult to get GLES drivers ;)12:00
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kulveI was hoping there's something that could work for this 3730?12:01
Stskeepsprobably, then use armv7l12:01
Stskeepsthen you can use TI upstream12:01
kulveok, I thought there was something hl as well..12:02
Stskeepsnot yet, linaro's pushing hl for them12:02
Stskeepsand i wouldn't recommend trying out the n900/n950/n9 ones before you have a armv7l going12:03
kulveok. Softfp it is then12:03
Stskeepswe build nemo for both anyway12:03
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kulveI added the repository from the web UI and I can see it with "osc meta prj home:kulve -e" but if I try to run "osc build armv7l" in the co'ed systemd directory I get "no repositories defined for project 'home:kulve:branches:Mer:fake:Core:armv7l'". And I don't see the project in the web UI..12:07
lbtosc repos12:07
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Stskeepsosc meta prj -e home:kulve:branches:Mer:fake:Core:armv7l12:08
lbtyou haven't specified what to build against12:09
lbtthere's a bug in the OBS that doesn't set this up for you12:09
kulveyes, I'm following that..12:10
lbtosc meta prj home:YOURNAME -e12:10
lbtis wrong12:10
kulveit tells to run "osc meta prj home:kulve -e" but not "osc meta prj -e home:kulve:branches:Mer:fake:Core:armv7l"12:10
lbtplease fix wiki :)12:10
eocanhaHave you been doing something strange with the Lua packages lately? (2012-01-20)12:11
Stskeepseocanha: define strange12:11
eocanhaI'm trying to build a minimal image, resolving dependencies (cloning packages) by hand12:11
Stskeepseocanha: hasn't been touched in 3 months12:12
eocanhaand mic2 complains about "lua-static-5.1.4-2.1.i586 needs liblua-devel = 5.1.4-2.1"12:12
eocanhaI'm having a look at the lua.spec file in the lua package12:12
Stskeepseocanha: that sounds like a pretty normal dependency12:12
eocanhaand there's no liblua-devel package there,12:12
Stskeepsyou're right12:13
Stskeepsthat's a bug12:13
eocanhaonly "liblua" and "lua-devel"12:13
eocanha(actually "devel", but I guess the "lua-devel" name is automatically constructed from it)12:13
Stskeepscan you file a bug please?12:13
Stskeepsyeah, else it would be %package -n liblua-devel12:13
Stskeepsi think something went wrong when it was yaml'ified12:14
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eocanhaand how do you manage to get the full build then, if there's such a bug? :-m12:14
Stskeepseocanha: we don't include lua-static in anything, i think12:14
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Stskeepsat least in image build phase12:14
Stskeepslet me check OBS dependencies12:14
Stskeepseocanha: how are you trying to do a minimal image?12:15
eocanhahmmm... I'l try to remove lua-static from my .ks file and see what happens12:15
Stskeepsalso, please switch to platform sdk and 'mic'12:15
Stskeepsit's a lot saner12:15
Stskeepsand we can fix bugs in that12:15
Stskeepseocanha: nothing in mer core utilizes lua-static, probably why we didn't see it before now12:16
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Stskeepseocanha: try as a minimal reference, and expand package groups with;a=blob;f=patterns/mer-core.yaml;h=030bed33e3a34fea030d40859c5044b5168c5d84;hb=HEAD12:17
Stskeepseocanha: i have busybox packages if you'd like to experiment with that too12:17
kulveI changed the home:YOURNAME to home:YOURNAME:branches:Mer.MDS:Core:i486 and Admin to YOURNAME. Why is the examples using Mer.MDS instead of Mer:fake?12:17
Stskeepskulve: Mer:fake was a horrid name we came up with .. MDS is Mer Delivery System, the new name for fakeobs12:17
* lbt wonders if we should have an ExtraPackages: * image12:18
lbtfor CI12:18
Stskeepsprobably good for CI, but difficult in practice12:18
kulveStskeeps: but I must still use the Mer:fake with community OBS? Who can use the MDS?12:19
eocanhaThis is my current .ks file:
Stskeepskulve: MDS is actually running on community obs but due to historical reasons it's called Mer:fake12:19
Stskeepsinstead of Mer.MDS12:20
eocanhait has Mer packages, but also packages imported from CE:Adaptation:x86-generic by hand12:20
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Stskeepseocanha: okay, if i were you i would just expand the @Mer Core in my .ks and start from there and add packages, dependancies shuld be resolved fine12:21
kulveStskeeps: but why the example says Mer.MDS if it doesn't work..?12:21
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Stskeepskulve: Preperation section: You also need to be able to access a Mer.MDS project linked to a current Mer release on an OBS. This is called Mer:fake: on the MeeGo Community OBS.12:21
* lbt notes that this is also supposed to be used by vendors who have internal MDS setup12:22
kulveok. So I should have asked for the access? :)12:22
lbt(and I don't like calling it fake in the docs, and we'll change that eventually on c.obs)12:22
lbtkulve: do you have meego c.obs access ?12:22
Stskeepskulve: generally that sentence means "if you're using community OBS, replace all occourences of Mer.MDS with Mer:fake:"12:22
Stskeepslbt: can you set up a Mer.MDS: project linking to fakeobs?12:23
lbt(please put that line in the wiki too)12:23
lbtStskeeps: yeah12:23
Stskeepsthat's probably just easier12:23
Stskeepsnah, it's not a task when it takes less than two minutes12:23
lbtit lets you get interrupted how many levels deep?12:23
Stskeepslbt: osc -A meta prj Mer:fake | sed -i "s/Mer:fake/Mer.MDS/g" | osc -A meta prj -F - Mer.MDS12:25
Stskeepsok, maybe not "-i"12:26
Stskeepsbut you get my point12:26
* lbt admits to using the webui12:27
lbtosc was quicker12:27
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kulvesorry to be asking simple questions all the time, but "osc build" won't build my package because "nothing provides <pretty much anything>". But actually I guess that wouldn't help me a bit as that would be locally x86 package, right?12:28
Stskeepskulve: simple questions are what helps us show gaps in our documentation, the more we work with mer the more we get blind to simple issues, so it's very valued :)12:29
Stskeepskulve: let me take a look at your project12:29
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eocanhaBug submitted:
Stskeepseocanha: thank you12:30
Stskeepskulve: in osc meta prj -e for your branch, <arch>armv7l</arch> -> <arch>armv7el</arch>12:30
kulveStskeeps: I don't have a real project atm. I started to patch the systemd but I guess somebody already did that or started to do it. Now I'm just kind of testing how I would have done it12:30
Stskeepswelcome to the wonderful world of OBS scheduler names12:30
kulveI'm so lost with those, especially because of the armv8el..12:31
Stskeepsi don't blame you, i hate the naming12:31
kulvewhy I don't see the systemd in the webUI..?12:31
Stskeepsi see 'building: 1' now12:32
kulveshouldn't I see that somewhere in
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Stskeepsno, :branches:Mer:fake: is a totally different obs project12:33
eocanhaYou were right: lua-static wasn't needed. I don remember why I put it in the ks file. O:-)12:33
Stskeepskulve: might be useful mindmap to navigate OBS concepts (.html -> .mm gives you the freemind one)12:34
kulveI need to delete my stuff from there..12:34
Stskeepsok, it's 10 C outside12:35
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Stskeepsi'm going to hate myself if i don't go out in the sunshine12:35
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kulvehmm.. Can I register to gerrit only with OpenID or google?12:40
Sage_kulve: I've done so at least.12:46
Sage_or at least I login every time with my google account12:47
kulveI actually have openid from myopenid and now I'm wondering how to actually use it..12:47
Sage_you might need to do account first though.12:47
Sage_kulve: you need the url to the provider site and enter that to login I guess12:47
kulveI have google account as well. Does it matter which email addresses I use in those..?12:48
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kulvei.e. my google accout is but I wouldn't want it to show up anywhere in Mer gerrit12:48
Sage_does my show in there somewhere?12:48
Sage_well you can actually change the email that is shown from preferences it seems12:49
kulvewell, I'll login with google. Let's see what happens.12:49
kulvelooks good12:51
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kulveplatform sdk: Problem: nothing provides rsync needed by git-1.7.7-2.1.i48612:52
kulvedamn company firewall. Getting out with ssh is of course denied12:53
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lbtOK updated some more12:57
lbtusage() in the script extended too12:57
lbttimoph: ^^12:57
* lbt off for a walk too -- bbi 20m12:57
* timoph looks12:58
* Stskeeps returns12:58
* sledges downloading N9 PR1.2 !!!13:05
Stskeepskulve: like with minesweeper and solitaire, i wonder how much global productivity has gone down due to stupid company proxies..13:06
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kulvewell, luckily we can use an ssh pipe inside an ssh pipe which is inside an ssh pipe..13:16
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Stskeeps'lo Wnt13:19
WntHello Stskeeps13:19
Stskeepswelcome here to #mer , what brings you here?13:19
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WntI was wondering if Mer is going to provide images for Raspberry Pi13:20
Stskeepsyes, we are13:20
StskeepsMer is a core, you combine it with a hardware adaptation (for raspberry pi) and a UI => a raspberry pi image13:21
Stskeepswe've already been running Mer on it13:21
WntOk, sounds really nice!13:21
WntAre there some images available that can be run in VirtualBox?13:22
Stskeepsyou can probably create some, we are currently making it so you can run GLESv2 apps in virtualbox too13:23
StskeepsWnt: didn't you at one point run old Mer on 770?13:24
WntStskeeps: I only made some research on how it would be possible13:25
Stskeepswe took a bit of a detour into MeeGo and now we're back and kicking ass instead :)13:25
WntI still have my old 770 in my closet and would love to get some use for that too13:26
Stskeepssadly i don't have an armv5 port at the moment.. the kernel is a serious problem for it13:26
Stskeepsfor 770, that is13:26
Stskeepsi have a couple of dead 770's13:26
WntAh I thin the only kernel 770 could run are the kernels Nokia provided for the device13:27
Stskeepsit could run higher but without wifi13:28
Stskeepsin which case it's not too useful13:28
Wntand they were so old that they didn't support the PS3 bluetooth controller13:28
StskeepsWnt: so did you manage to buy a raspberry pi this morning?13:28
Wntand I  would like to use the 770 to drive my roomba with a PS3 controller13:28
WntYes, I made a order to Finland's Farnell13:29
Wntbut I have no idea when they are going to have them shipped13:30
kulveWnt: through a company or as an invidual?13:30
Stskeepsi would have bought but it turned to be difficult from .pl13:30
X-FadeI bought one and farnell says w16..13:30
Wntkulve: bought it through my company13:31
kulveok. I understood that Farnell doesn't really like inviduals..13:31
Bostika friend said some time ago that if the $35 model ever becomes real, his company would use several hundred of them in a year13:31
WntBostik: It seems pretty real to me13:32
StskeepsBostik: well model B is the one launching13:32
StskeepsBostik: ie, 35$ one13:32
Wntmaybe in two months they will have enough units produced13:32
Bostikapparently "few bucks more than a microcontroller but with ARM linux on it" is a big deal in their business13:32
Bostikso rpi foundation certainly cornered a very interesting niche13:33
Stskeepsi like the aspect as it really throws a lot of cheap, hackable equipment in the hands of everyone13:33
Stskeepsthe world in A day made of glass certainly needs that :)13:34
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slaineI'm just chuffed that there'll be something for my kids to hack on, like I had with the C64/Amiga50013:37
Stskeepstimoph: Bostik: ahma:,17851 btw13:38
BostikI'll probably order a few, just to see what I can come up with when tossing a "real computer" at anything becomes a financially insignificant thing13:38
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WntStskeeps: do you know if it would be possible to run Debian on the 770 with a 2.6.21 or later kernel with bluetooth support?13:41
slaineI'm hoping we can use them as an STB platform.13:41
kulvelbt: did you have any hints for this "Error <mount>: Bind-mounting '/var/tmp/mic/cache' to [...]" problem?13:41
StskeepsWnt: 2.6.21 is probably too low these days13:41
StskeepsWnt: also it's not even bluetooth 2.013:41
WntStskeeps: the hardware?13:42
lbtkulve: not yet, I just finished the docs and got some lunch13:42
BostikStskeeps: ahma: right, sample packaging of some kind; we'll need to check that one out, preferably during this week13:42
StskeepsBostik: for installers and so on13:42
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kulvelbt: Ok. I'm heading home for the day but I'll continue again in the morning so all hints are welcome :)13:43
Wntah I see, wikipedia lists Bluetooth 1.213:43
lbtkulve: I may just ask you to try the new SDK tomorrow then13:44
kulveI'm doing two things: following the "Contribution_in_detail" page for the systemd and trying to get the rootfs with qml stuff. Both attemps are now failing to this weird mount problem that I didn't have yesterday13:44
kulveI think I did upgrade the SDK yesterday but didn't try mic after that. I don't know if something broke there or if I changed something..13:44
lbtit sounds like something needs umounting13:45
lbtdid you check /proc/mounts ?13:45
kulvewc -l /proc/mounts13:45
kulve53 /proc/mounts13:45
lbtso it sounds like that needs cleaning up13:46
kulve22 after sdk umount13:46
lbtI can't tell if that's normal13:46
kulvethose 22 look quite normal13:47
kulvewell /run/shm is there twice again13:47
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lbtwon't hurt13:47
kulvenot sure why it's /run/ and not /var/run..13:47
kulvenever seen that before13:47
lbtI think it depends what symlinks your host has13:48
lbtcheck /dev/shm13:48
kulve/var/run  is a link to /run. This is stock ubuntu oneiric13:48
lbtah, for me in debian /run -> /var/run/13:49
kulve/dev/shm/ and /run/shm/ are equal13:49
lbtso the canonical name varies :)13:49
lbtanyhow.. shouldn't matter13:49
kulveok. bbl13:50
lbtso now if you do mer-sdk-chroot mount13:50
lbtOK then13:50
kulvewell, I'm here still for a couple of minutes :)13:50
lbttry the mount then13:50
kulvedid the mount13:50
lbtnow we'll do the mic mount manually13:51
* lbt looks for details13:51
lbtsudo mkdir -p /var/tmp/mic/imgcreate-random/install_root/var/cache/yum13:52
lbtsudo mount --bind /var/tmp/mic/cache /var/tmp/mic/imgcreate-random/install_root/var/cache/yum13:52
lbt(in the SDK)13:52
kulvemount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /var/tmp/mic/cache,13:53
lbtpossible 'bollox'13:53
lbtso... in the world of bind mounts there's an option : mount --make-unbindable13:54
lbtwhich we need to use to prevent SDKs from nesting inside each other13:54
lbtI think it may prevent mic from working13:55
lbtkulve: leave it with me13:55
kulveyes, I was just about to say that :)13:55
* lbt mutters and wanders of cursing chroots13:55
kulvethanks and I'll be ready to debug more tomorrow morning 0700 UTC13:55
lbthehe ... I'll be ready a tad later :)13:56
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lbtand that's not it...14:24
kulvedid you figure out what it is or that it is not about --make-unbindable?14:25
lbtmic works fine on my old SDK using the latest script ...14:26
lbtI'm building a new SDK to try that14:26
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lbtStskeeps: is bad - Failed to find package 'xorg-x11-drv-kbd' : No package(s) available to install14:39
Stskeepsyes, i know14:39
Stskeepsit's fixed in 020914:39
lbtok ... np14:39
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gpradehello, is offline?15:28
lbtdm8tbr: ^^15:36
lbtStskeeps: ^^15:36
lbtnot sure who manages it15:37
lbtnot me.. all my infra is up *grin*15:37
lbtgprade: what were you after?15:37
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* lbt mentions as an interesting read and so he can find it again15:38
gprade@lbt: i dot understand?15:39
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lbtgprade: since that site is down and it provides irc logs and such I wondered what you were looking for in case I could help... :)15:40
gpradeoh, no, i need no help, i am looking everyday at this site to see who far you are with mer and nemo, so this was a good place for me to see whats going on with mer, but today there was no site anymore15:42
lbtI see :)15:42
lbtI'm sure it's just a temporary problem15:43
lbtwb Eren15:43
gpradedo you know something about the interesst of companies about mer, are there any company that want use mer in future, i read some news about tizen and wac, but they dont want use qt15:44
lbtActually that's an important area for me15:44
Erenlbt: thanks.15:44
lbtwe do have quite a lot of interest from different companies15:45
Erendm8tbr: qrz?15:45
lbtSome in China are looking at an OS for TV15:45
lbtwe have some looking at for IVI devices15:45
lbtNomovok for instance15:46
lbtoops... I have a delivery15:46
Guest40451lbt: hi15:47
Erendm8tbr: nice to see a ham here as well, de ta1aet15:47
Stskeepsgprade: probably a downtime, dm8tbr manages the logs15:50
gpradeok, thangs15:50
slaineI actually was noticed that earlier, I was trying to see what lbt and myself discussed yesterday for my OBS setup15:51
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* lbt back a little bit15:52
lbthey Guest4045115:52
lbtgprade: so yes, there is also the Spark tablet that is in production and uses Mer15:52
lbtthat uses Plasma Active on top as the UX15:52
lbtbut in general Mer has a focus on Qt and HTML515:53
Stskeepsi think we've briefed gprade before :)15:53
lbthehe ... I can't see in the logs :)15:53
gpradeyes, u do, thanks allot15:53
lbtgprade: any time15:54
Wntwow, there are 8 developers that do something related to Mer accepted in Nokia's Raspberry Pi device program15:54
StskeepsWnt: yeah, we collaborate with the qtonpi guys and feed them some ideas too15:54
lbtmmm reminds me I should phone farnell15:55
Erenlooks like Raspy and Mer will be revolutionary?15:55
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StskeepsEren: let's see :)15:55
Stskeepsi have a good feeling about it so far15:55
gpradein my freetime i try to understand qt and try to write my first app, very, very hard thing for me, now i buy two new books to understand c++ and Object-oriented programming, very hard15:55
Stskeepsgprade: yeah, may be easier to get to know QML instead15:56
gpradei try to do something like teachertool from ipad, but thats a long way i see now15:56
Erengprade: it's not that hard actually15:56
ErenI'd start with Java to understand object-oriented programming15:56
gpradeno, at the moment i must understand to manage a database for the data to write in15:56
gpradethat i can not do with qml i think15:57
Erenwith C++, you will have to manage memory by yourself, string operations are hard btw15:57
Erenin Java, it's quite easy. You're not focusing on how to append a string, or manage memory, instead you can focus on the design more15:57
Erenof course, it's just for understanding the concept :) Would I use Java in my actual coding except for school? Absolutely no15:58 C++ you use QString, and let QObject memory manage ;)16:00
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Erenleinir: hehe :)16:00
ErenStskeeps: it looks awesome, I'd really like to see it on raspy :)16:03
StskeepsEren: already runs, supposedly16:05
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slaineDamn, must have done something wrong,16:11
slainerake aborted! unknown attribute: long_name16:11
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gpradeok, see you16:17
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ali1234what was that keyboard shortcut mentioned the other day for searching history?16:31
timophif bash?16:31
Stskeepsctrl-r, yeah16:32
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lbtkulve: I'm having problems reproducing that error16:33
ali1234now i just need to learn to use it instead of holding "up" until i see the command i want :)16:33
ali1234on a related note, while searching for ctrl-r i discovered that ctrl-t swaps the last two characters you typed... any idea what the point of that is?16:34
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lbtStskeeps:!/FarnellNews/status/174866329533284352  maybe16:35
kulvelbt: maybe I'll just recreate the SDK or reboot the whole thing to get rid of any weird mounts?16:36
lbtyes, sounds sane16:36
lbtuse this one...16:36
Stskeepsyeah, can't buy from there, just register interest16:36
ali1234you can't currently buy anywhere afaik16:37
lbtStskeeps: I phoned RS and sent my email in - I wonder if they'll have a shop as well ?16:37
Stskeepslbt: dunno16:37
Stskeepslbt: either way, i'm not in that big hurry16:37
lbtanyhow... waiting for Quim to say something noq16:37
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Stskeeps'lo bigbluehat16:38
ali1234does anyone know anyone at all who managed to buy one of the first batch?16:38
bigbluehatStskeeps: hi yeah :)16:38
bigbluehatactually not here long16:38
lbtI'd like to get ready on our side though16:38
bigbluehatwill be back on later this afternoon tho16:38
Stskeepsbigbluehat: alright16:38
bigbluehatif that matters ;)16:38
lbtbigbluehat: it will make our evening :)16:38
bigbluehatlots of interesting chaos in this space this week :)16:38
Stskeepslbt: everything fits together so far..16:38
Stskeepslbt: vgrade's on the kernel packaging16:38
bigbluehatlbt: very kind of you :)16:38
Stskeepslbt: qt5 support..16:39
lbtnot at all :)16:39
Stskeepsbigbluehat: one question before you go.. how are you with photoshop?16:39
lbtI want to get the c.obs setup too16:39
bigbluehatStskeeps: I'm great at Inkscape mockups16:40
bigbluehatif mockups are what you're after16:40
bigbluehatI've got Photoshop, but prefer open source tools ;)16:40
bigbluehat…but not the GIMP :-P16:41
ali1234inkscape == illustrator :P16:41
bigbluehatonly better ;)16:42
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ali1234s'not hard to be better than illustrator :)16:42
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* Stskeeps begins playing with the multiple-build-sysroots patches17:14
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Stskeepsevening zumbi :)17:26
Stskeepshow's the obs troubles coming along?17:26
zumbiI've been talking with the suse guys and lbt17:26
zumbiabout release processes17:27
zumbiI think we need to define some for Mer17:27
Stskeepswe have some release processes at least, they're not very implemented yet17:27
zumbilbt is going to look into that and I have to do that as well17:27
zumbiI'll share with you my proposal once I got something17:28
Stskeeps is what i wrote up at some point17:28
Stskeepsi'm playing with the new cross compile patches that B1-systems are making for OBS17:28
Stskeepspowerful stuff17:28
zumbiI also need to give that a go17:29
zumbiStskeeps: I saw that page, last item is useful, but there are lots missing there17:29
zumbiso we need to have a OBS centric release process workflow17:30
Stskeepswell, sounds like a good discussion to do :)17:30
Stskeepsi'm open for suggestions17:30
zumbiwell, once I get something written I'll let you know17:31
zumbiI wonder if I shall use Mer wiki?17:31
Stskeepsmark it as a draft and it should be fine17:31
zumbiI mean, I dont want to impose anything, just share ideas17:31
zumbidraft sounds good17:31
Stskeepsyeah, imposing is my job ;) but the project is open to any ideas and proposals17:32
zumbiI have been wondering how to do development, then when we have software tested do migrations to stable and finally release17:33
zumbithen you want to keep updates for release17:34
zumbiin OBS world there is no specific workflow for that.. but with darix and lbt help we got good ideas17:34
zumbiSLES Factory flow is probably best17:34
Stskeepsthere's many different ways.. i'm kind of interested in the copy-whole-project idea as it fits into continous integration concepts17:36
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lbtright ... pushed the updated script to OBS17:42
lbtonce it is built I'll trigger an image build and call it the 0.20120209.1 SDK17:43
Stskeepswhere do we put it? on release?17:43
lbtI've actually been serving images from img on phost517:43
lbtI'll fix the https too17:44
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Stskeepsi'd prefer them on releases as it's part of mer delivery17:45
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lbtok - makes my life easier17:45
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lbtI do like IMG17:46
Stskeepsi don't mind pulling from there17:47
lbtthat was just a random feelgood comment :)17:48
sledgeslbt, I will replace s/i486/x86/(g?) in , as link is broken at the moment17:48
sledgesis it ok?17:48
lbtsledges: we're actually just wondering what the right link is17:48
sledgesok, then i leave it to you fellows17:49
Stskeepsright now: one that works, later: releases17:49
sledgesthen it needs to be changed17:49
sledgeswith all other i486 occurrences in that wiki article then17:49
lbtsledges: we're moving towards i486 for the moment17:50
lbtit means "generic x86"17:50
lbti586 means ssse317:50
lbtI hope we can adopt better terms soon17:50
lbtI don't know what "RPM architecture bottom and top " means17:52
Stskeepslbt: in armv7hl we can build for armv7hl, 7nhl, 7tnhl, 7thl17:53
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Stskeepshey crevetor17:54
lbtso I thought you meant "in armv7hl (obs scheduler) we can build" ... but that's not a scheduler name17:55
lbtand those values aren't listed in the armv7hl row in the RPM architecture bottom and top column17:55
lbtso, trying to be clear, should that column be "allowed RPM architectures"? and should it have armv7{n,h,l,t}* in that cell ?17:59
Stskeepsfor combinations of it18:01
Stskeepsh isn't optional18:01
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Stskeepsnor is l18:01
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lbtlike :
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lbtsledges: image should come from
sledgesok ta lbt18:06
lbtwould appreciate help updating and checking the wiki18:06
sledgessure will do that on the train18:07
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lbtStskeeps: anything before I announce the SDK18:09
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lbtI'll wait for the wiki to be updated18:09
Stskeepswell give me a tarball to put on releases?18:10
lbtoh, I see, sure
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Stskeeps /releases/XXX/sdk/ ok for you?18:10
lbtdo we want a corresponding snapshot of M:T:T18:11
lbtwhich should be M:T I know18:11
Stskeepsyes, next time - this part should be automated18:11
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Stskeepsdo you have rsync on img.* ?18:12
lbtI'll do a big copypac18:12
lbtdon't think so18:13
lbtimg area is still a tad messy18:13
lbtquite a bit to do18:13
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lbtI'll wipe M:T and promote a snapshot of M:T:T to it18:14
eocanhaI've built the perl-CPANPLUS package and it has a lot of dependencies that I can't explain by just examining the perl.spec file (those after "perl >= 0:5.006001" in ). Anybody knows why? In particular, I can't find a way to satisfy the "perl(DBD::SQLite)" and "perl(DBIx::Simple)" dependencies.18:15
Stskeepseocanha: glad someone's looking into those things :) in practice, RPM generates automatic dependencies from ELF library dependencies, perl scripts, python scripts18:16
aperezdceocanha: maybe those are provided by some package like perl-DBI18:17
aperezdceocanha: or something like perl-DBI.spec (or other) generates multiple packages18:17
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eocanhamaybe, but there's no perl-DBI in Mer:Core18:18
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Stskeepseocanha: i think it's because it has some textual perl scripts that refers to it18:19
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Stskeepsthose get analyzed and turned into RPM dependencies18:19
eocanhaso... if I find them and remove them from sources, that should be enough?18:19
Stskeepsthat's one way yes18:20
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lbtwouldn't be logged anyhow18:55
lbtStskeeps: did you copy it?18:55
sledgeseven when it comes back, you mean? :)18:55
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sledgesas it is not logging at the moment.... (doh)18:55
lbtyeah - bot down too18:55
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sledgeswill access the log tomorrow from work18:56
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gpradehello stskeeps, do you know aava mobile? could they be a partner for mer? the reference design aava twist was very good looking, but will never be build i think20:21
Stskeepsgprade: i have one of their hand warmers in my closet, yeah20:21
Stskeepsgprade: aava with intel processor :)20:22
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gpradeah, cool, do had spoken with them? have they said any about their company or about the aava twist?20:23
Stskeepsi haven't spoken to them, it's more of a thing where vendors who use mer work together with them20:24
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Stskeepsanyone is a partner in mer if they use us or contribute20:24
gpradedo you have already a spark tablet?20:25
Stskeepsno, i don't, not involved with it :)20:25
Stskeepsnop, i'm part of mer and that delivers core on spark, but besides interacting with them on mer level, i'm not part20:26
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* Stskeeps is involved with nemo and mer :)20:28
gpradeany new vids from the actual nemo?20:28
Stskeepshmm, i usually check nsuffy's videos20:29
Stskeepsit was my last day today on nokia sponsored work for Nemo20:30
gpradesomeone wrote here somedays ago something about ivi? is their any group working on it based on mer?20:30
Stskeepssimon at arcom-ivi is working on some prototypes20:30
gpradelast day for nokia???20:30
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gpradeah, cool (ivi i mean)20:31
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Stskeepsyeah - i wasn't an employee, just a subcontractor, been some good years :)20:31
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Stskeepsso now it's on to new challenges20:31
Stskeepshopefully many that includes Mer :)20:31
gpradesad, sad, sad, i think nokia is going the wrong way, they have money enough to go with microsoft AND opensource mobile20:32
gpradebut they all trough it away20:32
Stskeepsqt is having a lot of momentum, but anyway, i've been doing this kind of work for 2+ years, it's a good time to do something new20:33
iekkuStskeeps, I hope the future is good! for you and for mer20:33
Stskeepsiekku: i hope so too :)20:33
iekkuwas also my last day subcontracting nokia20:34
iekku6,5 years in row20:34
iekkuthe last 2 were the best. had opportunity to meet guys like you :)20:35
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Stskeepsyeah, it sure was fun in meego :)20:35
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gpradebut the all talk about html5 and wac, i am afraid that qt is going small20:35
* lbt watches people arrive in his world :)20:35
iekkuhope not20:35
Stskeepsgprade: well, you know my opinion that it's fine that people do apps in html5.. but who says we have to do our entire UIs in it20:36
iekku^ was to gprade20:36
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gpradeyes, i know20:39
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Stskeepsso we'll see20:39
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gpradeis it hard to explain the work you all do at the moment on mer? since some weeks i dont understand all in the logs, is the work on the infrastructur or are the problems on mer self?20:41
Stskeepsgprade: a bit of both.. mer itself is mostly fine atm, we're making documentation and SDKs20:41
Stskeepsand making ways for people to set up systems et20:42
gpradeok, cool20:42
gpradeis a database part of mer or must i put the database in my app? i mean firebird or sqlite20:43
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Stskeepswe have sqlite20:43
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gpradeso i dont need to put sqlite in my app and i can "call/connect" the sqlite in mer? very hard to understand for me20:44
Stskeepsyou'll need to link sqlite20:45
Stskeepsie, the libray20:45
Stskeepsthat package is already provided in mer, so you can use that instead of building your own20:47
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gpradeok, then i try, thanks allot20:47
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* lbt missed sledges then21:00
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bigbluehatStskeeps: perhaps shipping CouchDB would be a good idea21:00
lbt has sdk21:00
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Stskeepsbigbluehat: qt5 has a jsondb too21:00
Stskeepslbt: gimme a README.txt to put in there21:01
bigbluehatdoes it replicate? :)21:01
bigbluehatdoes it serve HTML apps? :)21:01
Stskeepsbigbluehat: think there's something21:01
Stskeepsbut either way, that's a bit on vendor side21:01
Stskeepsin a 'future technologies' toolbox with opencv and other things, it would sure be in there21:01
* Stskeeps gets to inbox zero21:01
bigbluehatyeah, most likely21:02
matrixxStskeeps: I just tried out gimp qml export, it may be good for UI prototyping, but no use for real development21:02
Stskeepsmatrixx: alright, too ugly qml?21:02
bigbluehattoo ugly gimp ;)21:03
matrixxyeah, the images are not optimized, but exported as a full layer size png's21:03
matrixxI was also expecting something like solid color rectangles exported as qml rectangle elements, but it's not that smart21:04
Stskeepshmm, maybe photoshop one is smarter?21:04
matrixxthey are all exported as images21:04
bigbluehatQML needs an SVG exporter21:04
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Stskeepsah, so you would have it converting actually to Rectangles ?21:04
lbtmatrixx: you'd need svg for that21:04
matrixxStskeeps: let's see, someone else has to try that21:04
lbtinkscape should manage it21:04
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matrixxyeah, svg exporter would be cool, for inkscape21:05
lbtmatrixx: inkscape mainly does svg21:05
matrixxyeah, I usually do all my graphics with inkscape :D21:05
Stskeeps ?21:05
lbtOK ... :)21:06
Stskeepsi mean, svg is xml..21:06
matrixxthere is a tool called flowella, I dunno how far is it nowadays21:07
matrixxbut I think that uses images only :/21:07
lbt enough ?21:08
matrixxmaybe the focus is a bit different, it's for creating transitions between mocked up views21:08
lbtks and package list is ther for completeness21:08
Stskeepslbt: ok21:08
lbtso it should be sane21:08
* lbt ticks a box21:08
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matrixxmaybe I need to learn python, I could try to fix the gimp plugin :)21:17
bigbluehatmatrixx: or build an Inkscape one :)21:18
matrixxit would still be a bit limited as only shapes between circle and rectangle are supported :/21:18
matrixxthough qt5 and canvas api gives much more possibilities21:19
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matrixxbah.. now noticed I said svg exporter, instead of qml exporter.. for inkscape21:24
matrixxapparently must get some sleep21:24
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