Monday, 2012-02-27

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* Stskeeps is entirely too early up05:19
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* timoph agrees05:28
Stskeepshttp://www.theverge.com/2012/2/26/2826829/orange-santa-clara-android-phone-is-intel-based-intel-designed?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter05:32
Stskeepsfairly interesting to see carriers do own phones effectively05:33
timophyeah05:33
timophatom? I wonder if that comes with a buildin fan? :p05:34
Stskeepswell, i think they might have gotten it under control by now05:35
Stskeepsthe aava was nice and toasty though05:35
timophI'd hope so05:35
timophyeah05:35
timophI had one of those and that thing really run hot05:35
timophbut it had one good thing. it didn't need a battery to run05:36
Stskeepspoint05:36
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* Stskeeps opens nokia webcast page for later usage05:42
timophwhat time it starts?05:48
Stskeeps8:30am barcelona time05:48
Stskeeps(CET)05:48
timophhmmh. that's 10.30 EEST05:48
timophcollides with lunch :)05:49
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Stskeepsindustry changing news: switching to mer05:51
Stskeeps;)05:51
timophx)05:52
* phaeron has been up since 5am05:54
* Stskeeps passes phaeron coffee05:54
phaeronkid has fever :(05:54
phaeronotoh implemented 9p virtio shared cache for img worker05:55
Stskeepsreally, 9p?05:56
Stskeepsthat's the best technology that we have atm?05:56
Stskeepsscary, it does indeed seem so05:58
phaeronStskeeps: what's wrong with that :)05:58
Stskeepswell, that it's monday morning and it' plan905:59
Stskeeps:P05:59
Stskeepsbut ok, if it works...05:59
Stskeeps:P05:59
phaeronit's the easiest way to share a directory from host to vm without using smb or something else05:59
Stskeepsseems so, yeah05:59
phaeronit's mostly transparent, kvm-qemu does the userspace server transparently (the command is a bit awkward) and the guest kernel just needs 9p virtio support. then you mount the tag06:00
Stskeeps:nod:06:01
phaeronI don't know about concurrent writes and locking. needs testing06:01
Stskeepswell, let's see how things work like in practice06:03
Stskeepsi guess some problems can come from doing a mic build on top, or osc build06:03
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phaeronstupid router crashed06:08
phaerondid I miss something06:08
phaeronsingle mic run is fine , I tested it ,multiple times , and that is almost enough to justify it , each run is 2 minutes instead of 48  on my slow link.06:08
phaeronof course taking it a step further would be using _network_ exported 9p shares :D06:08
Mirvgood morning, congrats for Nokia switching to Mer :)06:08
Stskeepsso mic run on top of 9p fs works okay?06:08
StskeepsMirv: ;)06:09
phaeronStskeeps: cache only06:09
Stskeepsphaeron: ah06:09
Stskeepsi was thinking that a chroot might be an issue06:09
StskeepsMirv: planning to get a gta04 btw?06:09
MirvStskeeps: yes I'm on the group order thing, have to see what are the options if that doesn't happen06:10
Stskeeps:nod:06:10
Stskeepsshould be trivial to get Mer on there06:10
phaeronStskeeps: Aard and I got root mounted off 9p so it's not far fetched06:10
Stskeepsphaeron: ok06:10
Stskeepsphaeron: i'm a little worried about posix acls in case we want to start using those06:10
Mirvshould be, probably their kernel + Mer userspace would just boot06:11
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Stskeepsi've considered to kick off a armv4t port of mer, just for kicks06:12
Stskeepsas i have my freerunner back06:12
Stskeepsbut then again, on the freerunner this would be http://xkcd.com/92706:12
Stskeeps:P06:12
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* Stskeeps checks out http://steelratstory.com/06:22
phaeronStskeeps: that's why to minimize grief I used it for cache only06:26
Stskeepsmakes sense06:28
timophso nomovok also forked meego or are they building on top of tizen? the diagrams look familiar..06:28
Stskeepstimoph: imagine 'mer' as upstream distribution in the "Case study: making a mobile phone" (not saying they'd use mer), but that's the general approach.. -- in practice, every vendor forks their upstream distro06:30
Stskeepslike you would with mer, meego, tizen06:30
timophStskeeps: yeah. just got to that page and starting thinking that steelrat code looks a lot like Mer core06:31
Stskeepssounds like a good opportunity for sharing efforts ;)06:31
timophbut a interesting thing in any case06:31
timophyeah06:31
* timoph likes the steelrat logo06:34
Stskeepsit has improved, yes06:34
Stskeepswithout disrespect to the graphics people there, they do need to try a little harder with reference ui's06:35
Stskeepsie, the graphics in it06:35
timophyep06:35
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AardStskeeps: plan9 is quite a decent system, used it for some time a few years ago. was always annoyed about the lack of support of those features in linux...06:47
StskeepsAard: oh, i have nothing against plan9, i have a couple of the research papers laying about06:48
StskeepsAard: just normally it ranks high on the wtf scale when coupled with linux06:49
AardStskeeps: it runs even on some old ipaqs. bunch of ipaqs via wifi as cpu-pool was pretty cool some years ago06:57
Stskeeps:nod:06:58
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zuhNice, no-more-wok has used u8500 as a benchmark platform :)07:12
Stskeepswoo :)07:13
Stskeepshello pat07:13
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vgrademorning07:25
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Stskeepsmorn vgrade07:25
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ben1066mohair07:36
ben1066mohair*07:36
ben1066android keyboard07:36
ben1066ohai07:36
MirvMary McDowell has not yet mentioned Mer!07:44
Mirvthere must be an error somewhere07:45
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StskeepsMirv: in a moment, one of our agents will run on stage and throw mer stickers all over the crowd..07:45
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Stskeeps;)07:45
Mirvas our dumbphones are getting smarter and smarter, our smartphones are getting dumber and dumber07:53
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leinirMirv: i was thinking that ;)07:55
leinirNew release of Nokia Drive, with offline capabilities! ...funny, i thought it had that already? ;)07:56
Stskeepsthis time it won't pop up a connection dialog07:56
Stskeeps:P07:56
Stskeepsowww, slideshow07:57
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* jukkaeklund wondering is there anything in there that would relate to this channel topic..08:00
Stskeepsprobably not, but it's good to not be blind to what goes on in the rest of the industry08:00
Paimenthat ubunut news is really interesting one from mwc08:01
jukkaeklundsure08:01
StskeepsPaimen: the ubuntu on android one?08:01
Paimenyup08:01
jukkaeklundwhen can I run my favourite linux distro on Mer?08:02
jukkaeklund:p08:02
Stskeepsjukkaeklund: run a chroot ;)08:02
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Stskeepsthat said, i do wonder if we could do fancy demos with n900 & exopc08:04
jukkaeklundsome youtube stuff would be good08:05
Stskeeps:nod:08:05
timophyeah08:06
timophwe should08:06
Stskeepstimoph: how did it go with AR btw?08:06
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timophAR?08:06
Stskeepsaugmented reality08:06
timophah08:07
timophhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4e0roI7gSk&feature=plcp&context=C33a2eacUDOEgsToPDskIOkqwrNrjPDfY8huIhm9uo08:07
Stskeepson what platform? out of curiousity08:07
timophthat isn't on Mer though08:07
timophafaik osx08:07
Stskeepsok08:07
timophbut would be a cool demo to port to Mer08:08
Stskeepsyeah08:08
timophtimakima: how about it? ^08:08
Stskeeps41mp, really?08:08
Stskeeps:P08:08
timophhuh08:09
Mirvthe marketing department just had the joy of their life :)08:10
Paimenthis goes all the way to 1108:10
Mirvso if 7 pixels are combined into one, they have a 6 MP sensor that outputs 41MP of data which is then squeeze back to 6 MP08:12
Mirvquality comes from something magic inbetween :)08:12
Mirvbut really, probably a pretty good image quality, just wondering what have they done that camera maker marketing departments haven't come up yet08:12
Bostikwith MP-overkill comes the opportunity to use light-field exposure08:13
Bostikwouldn't be surprised if that was somehow planned already08:13
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lbtmorning all08:27
Stskeepsmorn lbt08:27
Alison_ChaikenI ordered that Archos 101G9 tablet, thanks dm8tbr and vgrade.08:28
lbtwhat's a good link for the MWC casts?08:28
Alison_ChaikenIf my demo works well on mer on the Archos, I'll buy a second, and give one to the customer and keep one for me to show at upcoming events.08:28
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Stskeepslbt: it's at the Q&A now anyway08:29
lbtoh, thought it started 8:30 our time08:29
lbtnm08:29
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* Stskeeps puts on some pet shop boys and gets hackin'08:31
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jukkaeklundAlison_Chaiken, me too but returned it right away since the "real" Turbo model is not out yet..08:32
Alison_Chaikenjukkaeklund, not sure I need the real Turbo for my demo.   Customer just wants something that works!08:33
Alison_ChaikenHappily that means he's unlikely to say, "Mer?   What's that?"08:33
jukkaeklundyeah, your're right.. I just got pissed since I thought I was getting the 1.5GHz08:33
Stskeepsjust show a good demo, the underlying OS matters less - what matters is that it was easy to make your demo and product :)08:33
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Sage_Stskeeps: release due today?08:36
Mirvlbt: Spain is one ahead of you08:37
StskeepsSage_: possibly, or one more prerelease to get some kickstarter stuff in08:39
StskeepsSage_: did you set up the additional repos for the PA guys as that's one thing that blocks release08:39
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Sage_Stskeeps: no didn't, so you need the static release?08:40
Stskeepsyeah08:40
Sage_what was it called?08:40
Stskeepssec08:40
* Sage_ needs to do complete repository rename at some point08:40
Stskeeps(bit ill today, expect everything is slow from my side)08:41
Sage_the current naming thing doesn't work for these things :P08:41
StskeepsCore:ARCH:0.20120120.108:41
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Sage_ok, and what arches do they need?08:42
Stskeepsi think i586 and armv7l08:42
Sage_armv7hl and i586?08:42
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lbtMirv: yeah - I wasn't really planning on it - just woke up early :)08:43
lbtMirv: good to see you around here though08:43
Stskeepsand it's about adding the repos, not changing them around08:43
Stskeepsie, no changing <path>'s in their existing repos08:43
Stskeepsjust for good measure08:43
Sage_Stskeeps: yes, I know but I would like to do rename at some point of time later to unify the naming08:44
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAaH5vikEOM&feature=youtu.be <- B2G demo08:45
Sage_e.g., Mer_Core_i586 -> Mer_latest-release_i58608:45
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Sage_or should that be Mer_Core_latest-release_i586?08:46
Sage_Should be decided so I could use that naming with the new repos i'll do for PA team.08:46
Stskeepswell, this is just a temporary one so they have a stable foundation08:47
Stskeepswe'll have saner names in the future08:47
Stskeepsbrb08:47
Sage_Temporary is the only permanent thing :D08:47
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Stskeepspoint08:48
StskeepsMer_Core_version/tag_i58608:49
Stskeepswe'll have Core:next Core:version etc08:49
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* Sage_ recalls one temporary script made about 1,5 year ago that is still in use :P08:49
Stskeepswhat, mic?08:49
Stskeeps:P08:49
Sage_my daily image build script :P08:49
Stskeepsah08:50
Sage_so Mer_Core_<version>_<repos-on-path>*_<arch>08:50
Stskeepsas an example .. = ?08:51
Sage_Mer_Core_0.20120120.1_MW-Shared_MW-PlasmaActive_UX-PlasmaActive_i58608:51
Stskeepsokay08:51
Stskeepsi wonder if there's a string limit on repo names08:51
* Sage_ hopes not :)08:51
Sage_well if there is it is time to find out :)08:52
* Sage_ dropped the CE word out from those and ponders if that is going to bite in the future08:52
Sage_should be renamed at some point anyway but well we need way to reserve the release numbers when doing package copy08:54
Sage_btw, I think we should start delivering the repository files in rpm packages withing repos08:54
Sage_and not added by mic.08:54
Sage_So when doing updates and repo renames those could be fixed by installing new rpm's08:54
Sage_also version updates etc.08:55
Sage_maybe something that OBS or BOSS could provide?08:55
lbtthose are typically considered configuration files08:56
lbtafaik08:56
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lbthaving some code that gets "latest repo" from a well known URL ....08:57
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Sage_I haven't looked how those usually work on distros.08:58
lbtI think there's usually an app that goes to a webservice and if there's a new repo, it says "New OS release available"08:59
lbtthen if you say "OK" it adds the repo to your list and you can upgrade09:00
lbtthis is different to security updates or bug-fix updates09:01
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phaeronor have a "releases" repo which contains a package that installs the repos files. when it is updated the periodic zypper ref / apt-get update picks it up09:02
lbtof course.... TMTOWTDI09:03
lbtbut that requires automatic package installation09:03
lbtwhich isn't always done09:03
phaeronno it doesn't , the notification app picks up the available update in the releases repo and notifies the user09:04
phaeronif he says ok then it is installed09:04
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lbt"hi, there's a new release package do you want to install it (the package, not the release)". "yes", "Hi, there's a new release, do you want to install it" "yes"09:05
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lbtjoroi: ?09:11
joroilbt: let's continue here09:11
lbtStskeeps: may want to listen in too09:12
Stskeepsalrightie09:12
joroilbt: let's continue here...09:12
joroioh, sorry twice :)09:12
lbtso you're using MDS to pull into your OBS09:12
joroiyup09:12
lbtand want to be able to override some packages09:12
lbtyou also note it's a bit hard to push back changes09:13
StskeepsREMINDER: Mer and Qt5 planning session in 18 minutes in #mer-meeting (lbt, ahma, Bostik)09:13
lbtso lets do them in that order?09:13
joroisometimes it's not even feasible on very quick pace we have doing delivery, etc.09:13
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lbtof course - you don't need to explain09:13
joroiof course we would like to push fixes09:13
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lbtI think there's a variety of use-cases that need what you ask for09:14
lbtincluding "Mer rejects the patch" :)09:14
Stskeepsi'll be listening in, i'm assuming lbt will talk about the aspect of running own core programme09:14
phaeronlbt: that was a joke , right ?09:15
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joroiyeah, and I think this issue will come with other vendors as well...09:15
lbtso you're suggesting a blacklist for MDS09:15
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lbtphaeron: continue later?09:15
joroifor example09:15
phaeronl09:16
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joroiour current solution on OBS side is multiple layers of projects linking and stacking over each other, then we have snapshot tool which takes Mer + our packages and generates one big merged repository09:16
lbtjoroi: that would work I think (the blacklist)09:16
Sage_lbt: more workers by any change? :)09:17
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Sage_Stskeeps: added repos for CE:MW:Shared and CE:MW:PlasmaActive already09:17
Stskeepsok09:17
lbtjoroi: yeah - that sounds a bit clunky09:17
lbtSage_: ouch09:17
BostikStskeeps, lbt: pinged ahma, will call him if he doesn't wake up otherwise09:18
Stskeepsjoroi: so, the use case is that you want to do own modified packages to mer core?09:18
lbtBostik: OK ... 10m.... knowing ahma you should give him time for coffee :)09:18
lbtStskeeps: yes09:18
Bostikaye09:19
joroiStskeeps: that's the case. modifications, newer versions and "quick fixes"09:19
lbtjoroi: OK - anything else?09:19
lbtin particular do you just do point replacements?09:19
Stskeepsjoroi: makes sense -- so, in mer terminology we call this 'running your own Core programme'09:19
lbtor do you rebuild other parts of core that depend on these packages09:19
lbtjoroi: I'm guessing that you want to just do a point replacement sometimes (hack it)09:20
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joroiwe want to keep the Mer core snapshots and MDS as base, use prebuilt binaries and only do minimal modifications09:20
lbtyeah - but you should be aiming to either remove all those changes or.09:21
joroiwe just want to do point replacements but it's not always feasible09:21
lbtto rebuild your own core with those changes applied09:21
Stskeepsjoroi: where you effectively have a source copy of Mer Core and build it on your OBS, with modifications and you'd like to do this easily09:21
lbtif you rebuild core you want to be able to track upstream too09:21
joroiof course building whole core would be an option but sometimes it's kin of waste of resources...09:22
joroi*kind09:22
lbtyup09:22
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Stskeepsin practice if you need to rebuild dependencies anyway09:23
Stskeepsthen you do need to build core09:23
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lbtStskeeps: that's where I'd split point-replace from rebuild-core09:23
lbtie just mark a particular package as "not in MDS"09:24
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joroiyup, currently we fortunately have only few changed packages and have avoided building a lot of dependencies09:24
lbtso if it's not provided in "internal-Mer-overlay" ... it shows as nothing-provides09:24
Stskeepsmdfe_: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=CE%3AMW%3APlasmaActive , https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=CE%3AMW%3AShared09:24
lbtjoroi: just to be clear "avoided" temporarily?09:24
mdfe_good morning09:25
lbtsince avoiding long term would lead to nasty problems09:25
lbtmorning mdfe_09:25
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joroilbt: yeah, of course best situation is to have Mer core as-is09:25
lbtno09:25
lbtI didn't mean that09:25
lbtnot at all09:26
mdfe_mer next is updated again?09:26
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lbtjoroi: if you make a change to a package in mer core then you should rebuild any packages that Build-Require it09:26
mdfe_ah, cool09:26
Stskeepsmdfe_: we did one upgrade but we made stable repos for you to use09:26
lbtotherwise you have a risk of mismatches09:26
lbtnow this matters more to some packages than others09:27
mdfe_great thanks :)09:27
lbtbut that's the problem I want to avoid for you09:27
lbtjoroi: does that make sense?09:27
Stskeepsblacklist isn't going to work, fwiw09:27
lbtwhy?09:27
Stskeepslbt: CI_CNT.B_CNT09:28
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joroilbt: of course, but I meant we should try to get Mer core without any changes and keep out modifications as minimal... otherwise we end up building more and more packages and deps09:28
lbtStskeeps: by name - just never serve pkgA09:28
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Stskeepslbt: image creation..09:28
lbtStskeeps: fails unless overlay repo serves pkgA09:29
Stskeepswe have a meeting now, let's continue after that?09:29
lbtjoroi: can we continue after this meeting with Bostik :)09:29
lbtit's interesting09:29
joroilbt: ok09:30
lbtbbiam09:30
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AWasistoIs it possible to port FCam to Mer?09:39
Stskeepsprobably more a question about porting it to Nemo09:40
Stskeepsquestion is also if the kernel APIs haven't changed immensely09:40
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alteregoThere was an aspect of fcam which was closed, not sure whether it was the firmware, but there is a possibility that it's not ABI compatible?09:49
alteregoIt seems someone has released an fcam like app for the N9 too.09:49
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Stskeepsjoroi: okay, so you basically have a series of changes to mer core packages you'd like to use, while being able to rebase on top of newer mer releases as you go along?10:23
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joroiStskeeps: yup, mainly our problems come in image creation phase because Mer core version comes by default...10:26
Stskeepsright10:26
Stskeepsthe good news is that this exactly problem was why we started putting everything in git :)10:27
Stskeepscan you tell me how the core specific part is set up for you right now?10:28
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joroiwe have the normal MDS + fakeobs, manually doing updates. we preserve the "current" system and put the new checkout + fakeobs on another port if need to preserve older version10:30
lbtminutes sent with some highlights extracted10:31
Stskeepsand you're using the combination of mer releases repo, plus a repo with your modifications to build the image10:31
joroithe packages from Mer core and our override packages are combined to a single repository with a simple snapshot tool10:32
Stskeepsokay10:32
joroisnapshot tool basically just compares package names and prefers our packages10:32
lbtwhich is essentially what a blacklist would do10:32
Stskeepsso, i'm just going to detail how it would look like in the best case, and you were building your own core -- just so you know what we designed for originally10:33
lbtit's not a technically pure solution :)10:33
Sage_Stskeeps: enabled the 0.20120120.1 repos10:34
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Sage_Mer_Core_0.20120120.1_CE-MW-Shared_CE-MW-PlasmaActive_CE-UX-PlasmaActive_i58610:34
Sage_could be longer right? :)10:35
Stskeepsvendor would get a dump of mer git repositories (packages-git), and check out obs-projects/Core git repo. in order to do modifications, the vendor would then clone the packages-git/mer-core/package repo, and add his own changes on that, pointing the Core's packages.xml entry for the package to the new git repo and commit sha110:36
joroiStskeeps: building our own core would in best case mean manually set updating sources from Mer Core and automatical import to our OBS...10:36
Stskeepsupon update, the patch would then be rebased in the vendor clone and modified sha1 updated to point to that10:36
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Stskeepsthat's the build-your-own-core scenario10:37
joroiyup, I think most work is currently updating the sources to our OBS and building them. we can have our packages easily updated over Mer Core packages in OBS after it's succesfully imported10:39
Stskeepsyou can even upstream based on that10:39
Stskeepsso, the question is how to do it best right now :)10:41
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lbtso what's the problem right now?10:43
lbtMDS provides a pkgA10:43
lbtand it shouldn't, that should come from the MerOverlay project?10:44
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joroilbt: yup10:44
lbtif you just add the MerOverlay project to a repo list10:44
lbtthen MDS may update the version and suddenly you use that by mistake10:44
joroithen it works for some cases, some cases we end up having Mer package10:45
lbtbad10:45
lbtso this is where you want to hack the MDS to say "skip PkgA"10:45
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* Stskeeps tries to explain the problem with blacklist.10:45
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joroiyup10:45
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lbtand as you see above that's not a sustainable solution ... but it can help in short term hacking10:45
Stskeepslbt: okay, so, Mer 2011.blah.blah -release- repository contains libpng CI_CNT=5 with some abitrary B_CNT. If you have a mer overlay that's just a copypac of the package, your CI_CNT will be < mer release's CI_CNT10:46
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lbtright10:46
Stskeepstradationally you would then do a linkpac from MDS so your CI_CNT > Mer version's CI_CNT10:47
lbtMDS thinks it doesn't have the package10:47
lbtso you can't linkpac from MDS10:47
StskeepsMDS doesn't even remotely play into this at the moment10:47
* slaine keeps reading MDS as MD510:47
StskeepsMDS isn't accessed at image creation time10:48
lbtah10:48
lbtright10:48
joroiyup, that blacklist was just one idea...10:48
lbtso I'm assuming vendor uses an internal 'release' of Mer10:48
lbtwhich comes from MDS and has no pkgA10:48
lbtso the mic doesn't see it10:48
Stskeepsthey aren't, they aren't self-building10:48
lbtotherwise that's nuts10:48
lbtMDS syncs the binaries too10:49
Stskeepsonly for build phase, not for image creation10:49
lbtyes. they need processing to a release10:49
lbtso that's already in the requirement list and is a pre-req to this use-case10:50
Stskeepsso, joroi would want a scenario where they can make RPMs that will be > in version to the mer ones10:50
lbtvendor should be using all internal http10:50
lbtwell, they're hacking right now10:50
Stskeepsthat's true10:50
lbtthis is an unsupported shoot your foot off solution10:51
lbtthat's a good option name :)10:51
lbtmds --shoot-me-in-the-foot-blacklist=filename10:51
Sage_Stskeeps: /opt/cross/bin/armv7hl-meego-linux-gnueabi-ld: BFD (GNU Binutils) 2.22 assertion fail elf32-arm.c:1204910:51
Stskeepsso, there's two scenarios we should support: augment a release, and run your own core programe10:51
StskeepsSage_: yes10:51
Sage_known thing?10:52
StskeepsSage_: yes, i need to dive into it10:52
lbtStskeeps: yes - point-hack and proper-solution10:52
Sage_ok, my fennec build crashes to that10:52
lbtpoint-hack really needs documenting as to why it's bad - and when it's OK10:52
Stskeepslbt: OK, so, localdep against a MDS release with linkpac of package + modification => overlay that will be > in version to mer release10:52
joroiof course we could go building Mer core... that's again problematic because we still have limited resources and building whole Mer core does not bring that much benefit for us10:52
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Stskeepslbt: of course that's not counting B_CNT problems..10:53
lbtjoroi: exactly - right now you want quick+dirty with some minor risks that you realise need fixing if you select the solution10:53
joroiwe could continue our hackish way, it's not that big problem but if Mer could have also solution then it would be great10:54
lbtStskeeps: main issue is if a mer core Requires CI_CNT>410:54
lbtjoroi: I think a solution with an explanation of the issues is a good idea. It really will bite you if you take it to production - but that doesn't matter right now :)10:55
lbtStskeeps: I think they'd do a copypac > local overlay; then blacklist it from MDS10:56
lbtthat mimics the current setup and is the "obvious" solution10:56
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Stskeepslbt: blacklist would help how in image creation?10:57
lbtby that I mean it's the solution that many people would come up with when they first see the "I need to do a quick hack to that package"10:58
lbtOK, it wouldn't10:58
lbtunless... :)10:58
lbtwe have the MDS->release ability10:58
lbtthen you run mds --make-release10:58
lbtand it creates a repo that you can point mic at10:58
Stskeepsi'm talking about today..10:58
Stskeeps:P10:58
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lbtI'm not10:58
lbtI'm bringing in a requirement for MDS10:59
lbtsorry if I misled you10:59
lbtthey have a hack that works today10:59
lbtbut it's a common (percieved) use-case10:59
Stskeepsyes, augment and run own programme11:00
lbtwhich in turn needs mds --make-release anyway11:00
Stskeepsjoroi: btw, just for good measure, 'not enough resources' to build own core -- we do mer all ports on 210eur/month11:00
Stskeepsjust to put it in perspective11:00
lbt's true11:00
Stskeepsprobably a lower number if we just count workers11:01
joroiStskeeps: currently we have a big no-no for purchases, and our internal OBS and package building is already taking a great share11:01
Stskeeps:nod:11:01
Stskeepsjust putting it in perspective11:02
Stskeepsanyway.. let me just look at something11:02
joroiyup, I know... and future solution is to purchase another blade server and build capacity11:02
slaineWhat's a good amount of RAM to have in an internal OBS server for mer11:02
Stskeepsslaine: worker? 24gb11:02
Stskeeps(you said good..)11:02
slaineI've managed to set aside a Dell R41011:02
slainenothing special, but I should be able to get a good dollop of RAM into it11:03
Stskeepslbt: OK, so, the end result they want to have is a RPM repository that is mer core + their augmented packages, right, that can be used for image creation, right?11:03
lbtslaine: in general 4Gb RAM/worker instance does most situations - but it fails to build some packages using tmpfs11:04
lbtStskeeps: that's the way they hacked it11:04
Stskeepslbt: let's ignore the hacky solution, just defining what augmenting means11:05
lbtI think having an MDS repo without package A and an OBS repo with pkgA and including both in mic is fine11:05
lbtso I see no need to augment MDS11:05
Stskeeps..11:06
lbtso I see no need to augment MDS ... repos11:06
lbtjust add another repo with bits that are missing from the MDS driven repo11:06
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Stskeepscoffee break?11:06
lbtsure11:06
lbtnb ... I think your other approach is 'correct' and is what I'd also assumed for production11:07
lbtthis approach is broken but useful11:07
lbtactually - make it a slightly longer break - walk then triage11:08
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joroilbt + Stskeeps: we decided to test buildin Mer Core on weekends when we have lower usage on our builders, but need to consider if that MDS way could still be useful11:15
Stskeepsyes, i think both scenarios merit a solution, just some gaps in what is technically possible atm11:16
Stskeepswe did a similar thing for Nemo for a while and it got really nasty to maintain over time11:16
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timakimatimoph: (about porting that AR demo), why not. but i'm very busy during this week :/11:30
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timakimai'm also currently working on more complex AR demos with 3D models11:31
timophwe need to package the needed deps first anyway11:31
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timophmight be a package or two that's missing..11:32
timophbut since I haven't really looked into that I don't know what is excatly missing11:32
timakimawhat the demo needs is NyARToolkit and OpenCV11:33
timophlbt: c.obs search box broken?11:34
timoph"undefined method `strip' for nil:NilClass"11:34
lbtStskeeps: realistically vendors are going to do this anyway :)  We need to alert them to the issues, let them learn the hard way and make it easy for them to get from messed-up to correct11:34
lbttimoph: yeah, known bug, we have a new pkg to install11:34
lbtjust need some time11:35
timophok11:35
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timophwill search for existing stull later11:35
timophstuff even11:35
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timophanyway. have to go. lets get back to this later11:37
sandst1timakima: at least opencv 2.2 is at meego repos, so porting it over to mer side should be pretty trivial11:39
timakimasandst1: at least for me since timoph is going to do the dependencies/packeting stuff :)11:39
sandst1timakima: ah :)11:39
timakima(since i hate it)11:40
lbttimakima: I know what you mean :)  You may want to take a look at spectacle though - it makes it very easy.11:42
timakima:)11:42
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lbtbug triage in 15min in #mer-meeting11:45
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Stskeepsmdfe_: do i have a OK from you to release a new core into COBS then?11:55
lbtStskeeps: I should do that11:57
* lbt hears coffee being made .... must be nearly time for the meeting .... gotta love a wife with good timing :)11:57
Sage_mdfe_: ping me if you need other repos for the static release11:57
Stskeepslbt: okay, but one last piece needed, which is http://review.merproject.org/42512:00
lbt*nod* ... when you're ready12:00
Stskeepsok, bug triage now12:00
mdfe_Sage_: Hi12:00
Sage_Stskeeps: was QTMLocationProvider::QTMLocationProvider() missing from our qt-mobility?12:01
mdfe_Sage_: Our images for the fair are ready12:01
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mdfe_Stskeeps: Our images for the fair are ready, from me side feel free to release12:02
mdfe_s/me/my12:02
Stskeepsmdfe_: OK12:02
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jukkaeklundsage_, don't know if its that but I tried to get location from phonegap and it crashes the app12:30
StskeepsSage_: yes, it's missing12:30
Stskeepsnot linked up, AFAIK12:30
Sage_ok12:30
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Stskeepsphaeron: you're right on 'ssu package' btw12:42
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phaeronStskeeps: yes that's how H does it afaiu12:43
phaeronbut the separation of configurations and repo-pkgs would be a nice twist in mer12:45
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lbtso phaeron ... just looked back at the conversation... I said "but that requires automatic package installation" ,,, you said "no it doesn't" ... that was my point12:47
Stskeepsactually i think in H they have some kind of metadata in the package header12:48
lbtthe need is different12:48
lbt(for now at least)12:49
lbtAlthough I agree vendors will have this need12:49
Stskeepslbt: okay, i don't have the right mind to fixup http://review.merproject.org/425 at the moment and i'd really just like to get this merged and get you started with making a release12:51
lbtsure12:51
lbtmaybe transfer those comments to a bug?12:52
Sage_Stskeeps: about the nspr update bug says update to 4.8.9 but there is 4.9 already available12:52
lbtthat way they're not lost and it's OK to say "agree in principle, defer since it's not a blocker"12:52
StskeepsSage_: OK too12:52
Sage_k12:53
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lbtStskeeps: shall I do the bug12:53
Stskeepslbt: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19912:53
lbt:)12:53
lbt-> food12:56
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Sage_Stskeeps: -m* flags to compiler are coming from Mer and package shouldn't touch those in configure etc?13:04
alteregoOh dear ..13:04
StskeepsSage_: usualy13:04
* Sage_ ponders what alterego noted :)13:04
StskeepsSage_: fennec is evil that way13:04
Sage_Stskeeps: not talking about fennec :)13:04
StskeepsSage_: then no13:04
Sage_nspr13:05
Stskeepsit shouldn't touch those flags13:05
Stskeepsespecially not nspr13:05
Stskeeps:P13:05
Sage_http://pastie.org/3471452 :P13:05
Stskeepsmorons..13:05
Stskeepsremove that kind of stuff13:05
Sage_yes, planing to13:05
Sage_just wondered where did it go wrong  :P13:05
Sage_but what ever you give it always touches it13:06
Stskeeps:nod:13:06
Stskeepslbt/phaeron: we run >= 2.6.32 on cobs workers right13:09
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lbt2.6.37.6-0.9-xen13:18
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* Stskeeps hits dhl website with a stick13:20
StskeepsError 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): The connection was reset.13:21
Stskeepsyes, that's f*cking fantastic13:21
Ronksuanxious to find out where your delivery is? =)13:23
Stskeepsno, trying to ship something13:24
Ronksuah, worse13:26
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mdfe_Sage_: hi, any idea how to enable debuginfo packages on a running device?13:29
mdfe_http://pastebin.com/qretpime13:30
mdfe_the debuginfo packages are in the same directory, but are not shown13:31
lbtmdfe_: http://pastie.org/347162613:32
lbtthat was generated by mic using the --debug* options13:33
lbtmmm - I see - your repo structure is different13:34
Sage_mdfe_: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Debugging13:35
Sage_lbt: --debuginfo option doesn't work for mic13:35
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lbtSage_: nice ... :/13:35
Sage_lbt: or well it works for mer repos but not for obs repos13:36
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Stskeepshello maab13:36
maabHi mate13:36
Sage_lbt: e.g. that source url you have there is invalid as mer doesn't have it13:36
lbthey maab :)13:36
lbtSage_: yeah - that's the SDK example13:36
Stskeepsmaab: so what brings you here to #mer ?13:36
maabgood to c u 'lbt'13:37
mdfe_Sage_: any idea how to extend http://pastebin.com/qretpime to get debuginfo packages available?13:37
maabStskeeps: same as I guess, what brings all others13:37
mdfe_I tried so much, and nothings works ;(13:38
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Sage_mdfe_: that is OBS repo so it has those already13:38
Stskeepsmaab: alright, if you have any questions about Mer don't hestitate to ask :)13:38
maabStskeeps: indeed, thanks for that13:38
Sage_mdfe_: go to the url and check armv7hl directory and you can see the debuginfo packages13:38
mdfe_Sage_: I see, thats the reason why I'm confused13:40
mdfe_it does not work13:40
lbtSage_: when you have a min can I check on #192 spectacle bug with you?13:43
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Sage_lbt: sure13:46
Sage_lbt: I'll ping when I have a moment for that13:46
* Stskeeps conquers dhl13:48
Sage_Stskeeps: is the mips port active in fake obs?13:51
lbtmaab: so what kind of development do you do at the moment?13:51
StskeepsSage_: i don't think i added it to mappings.xml13:51
Sage_ok, does review test it?13:52
Stskeepsnot yet13:52
Stskeepswhat are you breaking?13:52
Sage_lbt: some reading for you first if you didn't see this conversation about the spectacle thing13:54
Sage_lbt: http://mer.bfst.de/logs/%23nemomobile/%23nemomobile.2012-02-24.log.html#t2012-02-24T08:50:2313:54
Stskeepslbt: regarding toolchain-core split, i'm starting to like what the other cross guys are coming up with..:13:59
Stskeeps"Sysroot: <alias> <project> <repo> <arch> <sysroot>13:59
StskeepsYou have to define an alias or label, then the project and repo with13:59
Stskeepsarchitecture from where the packages should come from, and last the13:59
Stskeepssysroot where all the things should be installed in."13:59
* lbt looks14:00
lbtStskeeps: where's that from ? OBS ml?14:01
Stskeepsyeah14:01
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Stskeepslbt: i have a doctor's test in some hours and fakeobs updates storm will take a while, let's see if we can find time tonight to do the release..14:04
lbtOK14:04
lbtI'm around14:04
lbtoh - thanks for the reminder... OBS workers still have a fatal disease14:04
lbtgtk I think14:05
Stskeepsgtk?14:05
lbt:D14:05
lbthappened to be what was building as they died14:05
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Stskeepsqtwebkit would be a better candidate14:06
Stskeeps:P14:06
lbtit should be locked to worker414:07
lbtfennec maybe14:08
lbtor obslight again14:08
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lbthmm14:17
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lbtso workers have been dying but there's no rogue job14:18
lbthome:sage:branches:Mer:fake:Core:armv7hl/openssl ...14:19
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Sage_lbt: ?14:19
lbtseems to be the last job in a few of the dead workers14:20
* Sage_ hides14:20
lbtmeh - if you can take out a worker it's a bug :)14:21
lbthttps://build.pub.meego.com/monitor14:21
* lbt enters screen and sits back for a nice screen-play "Death of a worker"14:22
lbthttp://pastie.org/347201814:25
lbta tragedy apparently14:25
Stskeepstmpfs broken?14:26
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lbtwhy now?14:27
Stskeepsactually14:27
Stskeepsit looks like two workers fighting over same fs14:27
phaeronback14:27
lbtnone on /var/cache/obs/worker/root_4 type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=8388608k)14:29
lbtnone on /var/cache/obs/worker/root_3 type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=8388608k)14:29
lbtnone on /var/cache/obs/worker/root_2 type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=8388608k)14:29
lbton a different worker (7)14:29
lbthttps://build.pub.meego.com/monitor shows that running 3 openssl builds14:30
* Sage_ feels like guinea pig14:38
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lbtwatching the arm builds wrap up14:40
lbttests done, now manpage installs14:40
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phaeronStskeeps: dunno if the answer is too late , but opensuse 11.3 is 2.6.37.1 so all our obs.14:41
Stskeepsok14:42
Stskeepsi am going to up the basic kernel requirement for eglibc to 2.6.32, so14:42
* Sage_ pushed nspr and openssl updates to review14:56
lbtsigh ... everything worked14:58
* Sage_ ponders what source package contains info14:59
Sage_ah, texinfo15:00
phaeronlbt: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165 I pushed a new promotion15:01
Sage_lbt: busy or have time for spectacle discussion?15:03
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Sage_Stskeeps: does adding -info subpackage for those sound good in your opinion? It would reduce the footprint as well, but not sure what would be the process if user would actually want those at some point15:10
Stskeeps-docs15:10
Sage_so move -info to -docs as well?15:11
Sage_sounds good as well15:12
Stskeepsyes15:12
Sage_ok, I can start patching packages to get rid of the 'info' package15:12
Sage_Is tar something we can udpate to gplv3?15:15
Stskeepsnot yet15:17
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Stskeepshey felipec15:20
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felipecStskeeps: hi :)15:21
Stskeepshow is it going?15:22
felipecStskeeps: good, lot's of things going on15:22
felipecStskeeps: what about you?15:22
Sage_what do %lang_package and %docs_package macros do?15:22
Stskeepsfelipec: i'm good, Mer is proceeding really nicely and exciting things being done with it15:23
felipecStskeeps: cool, are you using newer kernels now?15:25
Stskeepsfelipec: sadly our efforts are coming to an end as for the existence of a nokia team to do this stuff, N900 kernel is at 2.6.37, we did some work to rebase on 3.0 as you know. Mer continues as a real open project with many different contributors and Nemo (Handset UI) also goes on quite well15:27
Stskeepsso i think we ended up at a fairly nice point for future innovation in open mobile15:27
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felipecStskeeps: I see, but Mer works on other boards, right?15:31
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Stskeepssure, it's very very portable15:33
Stskeepseven got it on MIPS now, too15:33
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felipecStskeeps: and you use the same kernel in those?15:41
Stskeepsnop, we leave kernels up to the individual hardware adaptations (we don't carry hw adaptations in mer), we do however insist on some certain enabled CONFIG_*'s and kernel 2.6.32 and above15:42
Stskeepsas that's what we assume in userland builds15:42
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felipecI see15:44
Stskeepsthe philosophical reasoning is that we can't do a proper system if it's tied to a certain hardware, and it enables us to be more flexible in our targets/porting, as well as leaving out a lot of chipset politics :P15:45
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Stskeepsas we'd much rather just improve and make a good core instead of fighting about hardware adaptations or which side of the dialog box the "OK" button goes on15:46
Stskeepsbbl15:49
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phaeronlbt: ping16:18
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phaeronlbt: when you're back , I wanted to setup nested kvm img worker on imgw1 , but there is no LVM inside it. should we use qcow2 ?17:31
phaeronnow doctor appointment17:31
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* Stskeeps stretches17:44
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* Stskeeps starts making a list of things he should fix around the house when not having a day job for a bit17:52
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* timoph remining himself how to write c18:05
timoph-typos18:05
Stskeepsthat is a tough experience at times18:05
Stskeepslbt: ping18:05
timophseems that I haven't forgotten it completely18:06
timophStskeeps: a new day job on the works?18:09
Stskeepstimoph: we'll see.. i'm a consultant, these things come and go18:10
Stskeepsi was thinking to buy a bunch of cigars and sit on my balcony and enjoy the sunshine, perhaps18:10
Stskeeps;)18:10
timoph:)18:10
timophyeah. a good chance to relax a bit18:11
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* timoph checks what we agreed to do during this week for the sdk18:14
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lbtStskeeps: pong18:15
lbtbloody coffee maker18:15
lbtthe leak had gotten to the mains - hence the repeated power cuts18:16
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timoph"guide that describes platform sdk install, creation of custom image with kickstarter, basic idea for how hardware adaptations can provide kickstarter yamls, building image"18:16
lbtended up taking it apart - thermal paste, ptfe tape, new O-ring, soldering, multi-meter to find a busted fuse....18:17
lbtstill, I now have a *very* nice cup of coffee18:17
timoph:)18:17
lbttimoph: yes - that's a goal18:17
Stskeepslbt: give me a ssh pubkey18:17
lbtsure - where for18:17
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Stskeepslbt: place i make mer releases from18:18
Stskeepsso fairly secure18:18
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lbtis it not on merproject.org?18:18
Stskeepsit's on monster, but i'd prefer this way18:19
Stskeepswe will change release process once BOSS doing it18:19
lbtgenerating anyway18:19
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lbt~lbt/lbt.id_rsa_merrelease.pub on monster18:22
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Stskeepsok18:22
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* Sage_ finally back home again18:47
Stskeeps:)18:47
Sage_for some reason the days are getting longer and longer constantly.18:50
* Sage_ ponders where did his hacking time go..18:50
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Stskeepslife is what happens :P18:53
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Stskeepsmdfe_: http://wiki.merproject.org/index.php?title=Platform_SDK&curid=85&diff=1064&oldid=1063 doesn't seem entirely correct - we don't use mic2 anymore :)19:10
Stskeepsit is actually mic create fs now19:10
mdfe_oh19:10
mdfe_sorry19:10
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Stskeepsah no problem19:10
Stskeepsyou should switch to mic too, it's much saner19:11
mdfe_which mic do you use?19:11
Stskeepsthe new 'mic', which isn't mic219:11
Stskeepstry out platform sdk to experience it :)19:11
mdfe_:)19:11
mdfe_I will19:11
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Stskeepsben1066_: fix your client, please19:29
ben1066_Stskeeps: yea sorry :P19:30
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phaeronlbt: so how do we expose lvm inside the vm21:06
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lbtphaeron: hmm21:15
lbtIMG?21:15
lbtor SDK ?21:15
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phaeronimg21:15
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* phaeron is sleeping on kb.21:16
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lbtI dinna think about that laddy21:16
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lbtmake a huge device in the phost, expose it to guest as sdd, make it a pv,vg and allocate lvs on it ?21:19
lbtmake a huge lv in the phost, expose it to guest as sdd, make it a pv,vg and allocate lvs on it ?21:20
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phaeronsounds redundant :(21:23
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lbtso's 3 layers of kernel :)21:35
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phaerondoes it warrant getting a small phost for imager ?21:43
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phaerong'night21:56
lbtno22:02
lbtin an ideal world it may be different - we have what we have22:03
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cxl000COBS projects using Mer:fake:Core:armv7l are showing unresolvable for all dependancies. Is this due to the release in progress?22:18
lbtcxl000: yes22:18
lbtit should fix in a few mins22:19
cxl000np I'll come back latter then.22:19
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