Wednesday, 2012-02-15

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sonachStskeeps: If I have restarted rcmemcached,rclighttpd,rcobsapidelayed,rcwebuiapidelayed, Is the OBS in OpenSUSE11.4 completely restarted?  Or how to restart OBS completely instead of restart OpenSUSE?01:26
* dm8tbr just got pandaboarded :D01:31
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dm8tbrit's actually one with a 4460, will be cool to try mer with it01:34
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sonachdm8tbr: I have one pandaboard too:)02:13
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sonachStskeeps: When I setup local OBS for Mer, I find that under "http://git.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/obs-project-config.git",there is MEEGO_1.2 file. I used this file to setup local OBS. Is that suitable? or You will offer something like "Mer_latest" file exactly for Mer?02:15
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sonachStskeeps: When I setup local OBS for Mer, rsync command failed. Whole information is:http://pastie.org/338534604:15
sonachStskeeps: Please do me a flavor if you have time:)04:15
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Macerdamnit. vgrade sorry. was doing valentines day stuff04:46
Macertotally fofgot about the transfofrmer lol04:46
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Ronksumorning04:54
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Stskeepsmorn05:54
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Stskeepsgood morning ZiQiangHuan, how is your work going?06:00
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: morning06:02
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: For several days, I began to learn gstreamer. And we would do some gstreamer plugins for our hard ware.06:04
Stskeepsah, cool :)06:05
Stskeepsgstreamer framework is good but also a bit confusing at times to understand06:05
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yes, I think you are right. The documents about gstreamer is hard to read.06:06
Stskeepsbut very flexible once you have something that works06:06
Sage_Stskeeps: Have I said that I hate qtmobility and qtwebkit builds already? :)06:07
Sage_Job seems to be stuck here, killed.06:07
Sage_happens already on i58606:07
StskeepsSage_: this time it was a network failure06:07
Sage_:P06:07
Stskeepsbackbone at hetzner messed up06:07
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: which part are you trying to do, acceleration of codecs on hisilicon hardware?06:12
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: yes.06:13
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: doesn't hisilicon support OpenMAX?06:13
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Because we must use hardware to play audios and videos. I have no idea about OpenMAX.06:17
Stskeepsok06:17
Stskeepsopenmax is a standard api for using accelerated video/audio decoding, so if you had that you could use 'gst-openmax' instead of writing your own06:18
Stskeepsif not, you probably have to write your own yes06:18
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Then I will try to check the hisilicon's document for that.06:19
sonachStskeeps: morning:)06:20
Stskeepsgood morning sonach06:20
sonachI met some problems when setup local OBS for Mer, and pastie it. Can you give me some advices?06:21
Stskeepssonach: yes, i already sent you a mail this morning06:21
sonachOK, I will check this at once:)06:21
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sonachStskeeps: thank you for reply. I will read the instructions first:)06:25
Stskeepsno problem, --- the instructions will become better soon, there is quite likely something wrong with them, so just tell us when something doesn't work06:25
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sonachStskeeps: OK. I will try this!06:28
Paimenmorning all06:28
Stskeepsmorn Paimen06:29
* Stskeeps reads danish news.. "finnish man wakes up in danish airport without money, passport or wife, after having gotten drunk and ate his visa card"06:30
Paimensounds like normal friday to me06:31
Stskeepsyeah..06:31
Paimenor monday if you are on vacation06:31
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matrixxD06:58
matrixx:D06:58
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Stskeepshuomenta jukka07:22
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timophhuomenta07:39
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Paimenhmm I should remove jukka from my hilite list07:49
Stskeepsdunno, sometimes a hilight too many is better than too few :)07:51
matrixxnon-exclusive huomenta :)07:52
Stskeepshmm - any of you who's into borderline UIs and such, opencv, augmented reality, kinect usage, that kind of stuff?07:52
w00tall-inclusive generic morning greeting07:52
Stskeepsit could be cool to put together a toolbox of those toolkits for Mer07:52
matrixxI'm interested of augmented reality, but haven't really done anything related yet07:53
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timophStskeeps: I might know one guy. wait a sec07:58
* timoph trying to get a new contributor to Mer :)07:59
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jukkaeklundStskeeps, timoph, Paimen and all, huomenta :)08:20
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Stskeepssonach: what virtualization for intel processors programs are popular to use for developers in china? QEMU, VirtualBox, VMware, any others?08:26
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sonachStskeeps: I don't quite understand your problem. Is you mean: Now My PC is running Windows7, and I want to install Ubuntu in one kind of Virtual Machine?08:30
Stskeepssonach: well, i'm just wondering what is usually used08:30
Stskeepsi personally use qemu or virtualbox08:30
Stskeepssonach: we're going to make it possible to start Mer easily with virtual machine as well, for easier/faster development08:30
jukkaeklundvmware?08:31
sonachwell, most  use VMWare, some use virtualbox.08:31
sonachYes, VMWare is most popular:)08:31
Stskeepsok08:31
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sonachStskeeps: What I am using is VMware-workstation-full-7.1.4-385536.08:45
harbaumvmware is only free for non-commercial use which imho is a problem for mer related work08:45
vgradelbt urgent ping08:45
harbaumi just found the same discussions at the blackberry site as their playbook simulator is a vmware image08:46
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sonachharbaum: hmm, for linux developer or hacker, virtualbox is OK; others will use VMWare.08:47
sonachharbaum: for example, for me Virtual is OK:)08:47
harbaumstill you need to buy a license08:47
timakimaStskeeps: heard you were asking about people interested in augmented reality08:47
sonachharbaum: for me virtualbox is OK,08:47
timakimaStskeeps: i'm new to it, but planning to do something during the hackday with opencv and nyartoolkit marker detection08:48
Stskeepstimakima: cool, - it should be quite easy to package opencv up for mer i think08:48
Stskeepsharbaum: qemu-kvm is quite capable too, ideally we'll support multiple vm solutions08:49
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harbaumi am fine with qemu. i just wanted to point out that vmware may imply lefgeal problems08:49
Stskeeps:nod:08:49
Stskeepswe can deliver a .iso so08:50
timakimaStskeeps: found quite cool example online, seems to work: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/node/375608:50
harbaumbut you need appropriate drivers. the playbook iso boots on virtualbox, but doesn't cope with the video08:50
Stskeeps:nod:08:50
Stskeepsdid you ever try our llvmpipe demos?08:50
harbaumme? nope08:51
Stskeepswe have gles with 60fps in nemo08:51
harbaumwith software rendering? cool ...08:51
Stskeepsyes08:52
Stskeepsthough this doesn't work on arm08:52
Stskeepsdue to llvm being broken08:52
harbaumbtw: where is my old n800?08:52
harbaumah? Ok08:52
lbtmorning all08:52
lbtvgrade: hey08:53
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* Stskeeps passes lbt the coffee pot09:05
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* lbt grabs eagerly09:05
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mdfe_good morning09:25
Stskeepsmorn mdfe_09:25
vgrademorning09:26
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sonachlbt: morning:)09:27
lbtgood morning sonach09:28
sonachlbt: Is it time to try Platform SDK now?09:28
lbtsonach: sure - it's still very alpha though .... so you'll need to help me identify issues :)09:28
lbthttps://img.merproject.org/images/09:29
sonachlbt: It doesn't matter. I will try it soon:)09:29
lbtdownload the bz2 file and the enter-chroot.sh file09:30
lbtsonach: do you know what a bind mount is?09:30
Stskeepslbt: thought: perhaps we should make home mounting an option09:31
sonachlbt: a little. Before I do chroot, I have to do bind mount first.09:31
lbtStskeeps: it kinda is09:31
Stskeepslbt: it is?09:31
Stskeepsso it's not dangerous in dangerous setting?09:31
Stskeeps:P09:31
Stskeepserr..09:31
Stskeepsdangerous in default setting09:31
lbtit's optionally safe :)09:31
Stskeeps..09:31
Stskeeps:P09:31
Stskeepshow about default safe :)09:32
mdfe_vgrade: good catch with the compositing issue :)09:32
lbtI said it was alpha09:32
lbtsonach: so let me explain09:32
lbtsonach: the script will do a bind mount of your home and / into the SDK09:32
lbtthis is fine and safe09:32
lbtit will unmount them when you leave09:33
lbtthe only thinks to be aware of are that09:33
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sonachlbt: what should be aware of?09:33
lbta) if you rm -rf the SDK then you'll rm -rf your home and root if the bind mounts are still there09:33
sonachlbt: I can understand "a)."09:34
lbtb) if there is a problem then they can still be there when you leave and you should check before rm -rf the SDK09:34
lbtthat's it09:34
* chouchoune broke his computer like that yesterday/2 days ago ;)09:34
Stskeepslbt: 'mic' has a mic-cleanup thing09:34
Stskeepsfor chroots09:34
Stskeepsas well09:34
lbtyeah - it doesn't work well09:34
Stskeepsok09:35
sonachlbt: how to check If I want to rm -rf the SDK?09:35
lbtsonach: thanks ... good point09:35
lbtcat /proc/self/mounts09:35
lbtit is more reliable than "mount"09:35
sonachlbt: If I find bind-mount is still there when cat /proc/self/mouts, how to cancel the bind-mount then?09:36
lbtjust umount as root09:36
lbtand *please* let me know09:37
lbtI tried very hard to make it safe09:37
lbtfeels like over half the code is actually safety checks :)09:37
Stskeepslbt: perhaps you can do something like set a filesystem bit so it's difficult to rm -rf by accident? isn't there something like that?09:37
slainethere's an immutable flag09:38
sonachlbt: OK. no problem. I am brave enough to try it though it is dangrous:)09:38
lbthehe :)09:38
lbtthanks09:38
sonachalright:)09:39
lbtthe safest option I'm aware of is to make the chroot in a discrete partion and use --one-file-system09:39
lbtwhen doing rm -rf09:39
vgrademdfe_, could you do a build with that change reverted?09:39
vgrademdfe_, G9 one09:39
lbtthat won't help for bind-mount on the same fs09:39
Stskeepslbt: http://binblog.info/2011/01/30/make-directory-immutable-on-linux/ on the / of the sdk perhaps?09:39
sonachlbt: OK,thank you. I will go out now. see you:)09:40
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Stskeepslbt: then rm -rf of it will stall very very early09:40
Stskeepsi would guess...09:40
Stskeeps:P09:40
slaineStskeeps: yup09:40
Stskeepsor on the home mount o something09:40
lbtStskeeps: yeah it can't hurt09:41
lbtbut it may not help09:41
lbtrm doesn't process in any given order09:41
lbtand it does depth first iirc09:41
Stskeepsmm09:41
Stskeepsmaybe, dunno09:42
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lbt*may* not help ... and isn't *guaranteed* to help :)09:42
lbtcertainly a good idea09:42
lbtand like I say ... this is a problem when rm -rf the SDK09:42
mdfe_vgrade: Maybe by a single reverting patch of the potential trouble causing commit09:43
lbtthat should be handled by a script we provide anyhow09:43
slaineThere's a comment on that page that you'd need to name the file something like .00-immuatable to try and catch the order09:44
vgrademdfe_, yes, exactly, I think its quite safe as it only affects sw rendering targets09:45
vgrademdfe_, I'm also hoping thats the cause. Not 100% sure09:46
mdfe_vgrade: we can try09:46
mdfe_but first I like to update the testing project09:46
vgradeno probs09:47
mdfe_:)09:47
mdfe_do you know the maybe trouble causing commit id of kde-workdspace?09:48
Stskeepsmdfe_: BTW, heads up: we're switching mer default to LLVMpipe rendering from the release after next, so you'll have to specify intel mesa drivers directly in your .ks at that point09:50
mdfe_Stskeeps: greate thanks for this advice09:50
mdfe_Stskeeps: this means you are changing the rpm groups?09:51
Stskeepsmdfe_: no, just that our mesa won't have anything hardware specific like intel drivers09:51
Stskeepswe'll provide a mesa intel version in the X86 adaptation09:51
mdfe_ok09:52
vgrademdfe, the commit link is in the email I think, checks09:52
mdfe_cool, thanks :)09:53
vgradehttp://quickgit.kde.org/index.php?p=kde-workspace.git&a=commit&h=29911870d2691e30fc9aefb48a252871f613114509:53
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Stskeepsmorn sledges09:59
sledgesguten Morgen Stskeeps  :)10:00
sledgesalles klar?10:01
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Stskeepsi'm not german, but yeah, i'm good ;)10:01
sledgesnein? Ich dachte das du wirdst :)10:01
sledgesI'm not German either :)10:01
Stskeepsborn and raised in denmark, living in poland10:01
Stskeepsjust happen to have a germanic-ish name10:02
sledgesI see, czesc then :D10:02
Stskeepshehe10:02
sledgesno words in Danish I'm afraid :}10:02
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sledgesquite a bit of Open Source activity in Poland there?10:04
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Stskeepsi guess there's a lot but i haven't touched ground with the open source community here yet10:05
Stskeepsbit of a language barrier10:05
sledgesoh wow, how come you're in Poland then (I imply your answer though :))10:06
* Stskeeps points to wedding ring and tax statement10:06
* sledges has implied the answer correctly10:06
lbtinferred10:07
sledgesyup, the inference10:07
sledgesimply the semantics of an unsaid answer :D10:08
Stskeepslbt: past your morning coffee yet?10:08
lbthugging it10:08
Stskeepsok10:08
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matrixxhaha, the drunken finish man in the airport has gotten into finish news also: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/suomalaismies-riehui-lentokentalla---joi-45-litraa-olutta-ja-soi-luottokorttinsa/art-1288449216932.html :D10:15
lbtnb ... got my kvm issues sorted last night. Will continue on them today10:15
Stskeepsk10:16
Stskeepswhat phost number was monster?10:17
Stskeeps1? 2?10:17
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lbtmissed that ... 310:34
Stskeepsk10:34
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Stskeepslbt: re spreadsheet i just sent, remember domain costs10:42
Stskeepsjust divide by 12 or something10:42
lbtoh yes... OK10:43
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Stskeeps'lo jeremiah10:55
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jeremiahHowdy10:56
jeremiah:)10:56
Stskeepshow is it going?10:56
jeremiahGood!10:56
slainejeremiah: hey10:56
jeremiahHow are you keepsie?10:56
jeremiahslaine: o/10:56
Stskeepsi'm good, merproject going nicely forward10:56
jeremiahI see that!10:56
jeremiah:)10:56
jeremiahI'd like some more info on mer actually.10:57
jeremiahI'm really glad to see the governance laid out.10:57
jeremiahI'd like to know more about funding.10:58
jeremiahIs there any corporate backer?10:58
jeremiahOr is the project independent?10:58
Stskeepssure, let me take them in order :)10:58
jeremiah:)10:59
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Stskeepsgovernance we have our first advisory board meeting on monday -- we have a model that's a bit like the Yocto one, http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Governance , very technically driven, with the concept of interest groups in which companies/projects/groups of hackers participate in and hence help recommend/influence direction10:59
Stskeepserr, on friday, i mean11:00
Stskeepswe're a bit of a co-operative, people pitch in and share the burden11:00
jeremiahOkay. I actually read the wiki a bit when you sent out your note about the meeting.11:00
Stskeepsproject is independent from corporate backing, -but- companies can participate through the open process11:00
Stskeepscompanies, UI projects, groups of hackers alike11:01
jeremiahSo no one has funded Mer as a "proof of concept" as it were?11:01
Stskeepswell, ourselves11:01
jeremiahYeah, you guys have supplied all the resources yourselves - that is what it looks like from the wiki?11:01
jeremiahI just want to be clear11:02
Stskeepsit has helped we were able to do work in Nemo towards Mer of course as meego died, but my own direction is consultancies surrounding mer11:02
Stskeepsbut there has been no corporate money (except our own companies, ie, our small tiny ones) involved to kickstart thi11:02
Stskeepss11:02
Stskeepsso, it's fairly pure and free of politics11:02
jeremiahCool - that is what I'm looking to understand. :)11:03
jeremiahThe corporate politics has a way of, umm, complicating things.11:03
Stskeepswe have people doing GTK+Mer projects, Plasma Active+Mer, Nemo (MTF/QML/etc)+Mer alongside, improving on the same core while differentiating on the directions we're most likely to argue about11:03
Stskeepsso there's no Mer "UI" or Mer hardware adaptations, 100% open source, just a core11:04
jeremiahAnd you're using the OBS?11:04
Stskeepsand rest exists in the vendor (also hackers!) community surrounding mer11:04
Stskeepsyes11:04
jeremiahHow does one get a log in to submit packages?11:04
jeremiahCan one build images from your OBS?11:05
Stskeepsokay, so, before getting into specifics :)11:05
jeremiahYeah, I'm jumping around a bit here, sorry11:05
StskeepsMer Core exists as a project core, described by a git repository and .xml file indicating other git repositories and commit versions11:05
Stskeepsanyone can take mer core, link it up with their OBS and work on it themselves and self-build it with ease11:06
jeremiahWhen you say "project core", what do you mean exactly?11:06
Stskeepsthere happens to be a Mer continous integration OBS which checks incoming changes, which uses same method to build Mer and publish RPMs from it11:06
Stskeepswell, sec11:06
jeremiahWhat is the format of the artifacts?11:06
jeremiahIs it a set of git repos, packages, foo?11:06
Stskeepshttp://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer/project-core.git;a=blob;f=packages.xml;h=5aa389a8978a9dd372aaf337bec51ce089e8b557;hb=HEAD11:06
Stskeepshttp://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb/11:07
Stskeepsgit repos containing packages11:07
Stskeepsright now we contain tarballs too, though that's not a terribly good idea11:07
StskeepsMer is extremely fork-able, for good reasons, such as making it difficult to shut down the project if a company changes it's mind..11:07
jeremiahClever11:08
Stskeepsif you want to submit a change to Mer, you clone the git repository, submit the changes, go through public review at http://review.merproject.org and test changes11:08
Bostikburnt fingers..11:08
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Stskeepsand it gets merged11:08
Stskeepsonly aggrement needed is the Signed-off-by process11:08
jeremiahBostik: I have no idea what you're referring to. =D </sarcasm>11:08
jeremiahSo the signed-off-by needs an email to the Mer Lead Architect?11:09
Stskeepsnop11:09
Stskeepsjust sign your git commit with your name and e-mail11:09
* jeremiah reads the review.m.o URL11:09
Stskeepstry clicking All -> Open and All->Merged11:10
Stskeepsapologies for using a meego.com url, but https://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines/signed-process explains it pretty well11:11
Stskeeps(we should copy that to mer wiki)11:11
jeremiahSo I know that I'm looking at gerrit, but are these issues waiting for review?11:12
jeremiahWhat is the nature of the "open" queue?11:12
Stskeepsthey are issues waiting for review, some of them are going through automatic testing11:12
jeremiahokay11:12
Stskeepssuch as if they're breaking other packages, or failing test cases11:12
Stskeepsthen they get merged and picked up for next core release11:12
jeremiahOh, that pops up in gerrit too?11:12
jeremiahNice.11:12
Stskeepssure, let me show you a dramatic one11:12
jeremiahSo the "core" is essentially a Linux distro.11:13
Stskeepsbasically, but suited towards mobile/smaller footprint usage11:13
Stskeepshttp://review.merproject.org/31411:13
Stskeepswe have ARMv6, ARMv7 softfp/hardfp, X86, X86 with SSSE3, MIPS ports11:13
Stskeepsour focus is a solid base system to build products on top of along with tools to make it so11:14
jeremiahOkay.11:14
jeremiahIf one wanted to add a package or technology, let's say Wayland or systemd, what is the process?11:15
Stskeepswith focus on qt/html5/qml/js performance and ease of use11:15
jeremiahIs there a feature request mechanism?11:15
Stskeepsyou start a conversation on the mailing list / open one or more task bugs11:15
Stskeepsand they'll get discussed in triages11:15
jeremiahAnd mailing lists are open?11:15
Stskeepsyes, completely11:15
jeremiahcoll11:16
jeremiahOr cool rather11:16
jeremiahIs there a roadmap for features?11:16
Stskeepsif you don't get a satisfactory answer, we support the use case of running modified Mer as well11:16
Stskeepsheh, yeah, that one is more difficult :)11:16
jeremiahAre there timed releases or do you release when "ready"11:16
Stskeepswe work by continous integration, each of our releases are 'stable'11:16
jeremiahWhat tools do you use for CI?11:17
jeremiahJust the OBS?11:17
Stskeepscurrently self-made, centered around BOSS, OBS and gerrit11:17
jeremiahAh11:17
Stskeepswe have considered to move to something like jenkins11:17
jeremiahIts Java but seems to be widely used.11:17
Stskeepsgerrit's java too11:17
* jeremiah dies a little inside.11:18
Stskeepshehe11:18
Stskeepsbut it works quite well on openjdk :)11:18
jeremiahyeah, that is the most important bit11:18
jeremiahWhat tools do you use to build images?11:18
jeremiahmic? Kiwi?11:18
Stskeeps'mic', not 'mic2' we collaborate and patch together with those guys still11:19
jeremiahHow is the collaboration going?11:19
jeremiahmic2 is not really very portable.11:19
Stskeepsi haven't seen any problem so far11:19
Stskeepsmic2 isn't11:19
jeremiahBut mic is better in that regard?11:19
Stskeepsmic's better, but we are providing a platform SDK chroot as well11:19
Stskeepscontaining useful and working tools11:19
jeremiahnice11:20
Stskeepswhich will also contain a scratchbox2 (not 1!) enabled SDK for building software11:20
jeremiahCan I look at your mic tool? I'd like to look at the man page to see if it is something we can use in GENIVI.11:20
Stskeepssec11:20
Stskeepsit's not ours, it's actually intels, but we submit patches to it11:20
jeremiahStskeeps: Yeah, I've spoken to skriptripper about that.11:20
Stskeepsas it's usable11:20
Stskeepshttps://github.com/jfding11:21
jeremiahSo Intel is patching _both_ mic2 and mic?11:21
jeremiahOr am I confused?11:21
Stskeepsmic2's dead11:21
jeremiahAh, okay11:21
jeremiahGood to hear it.11:21
jeremiahI wanted to push it into an electrical fire11:21
Stskeepswe're also just going on a new stage of doing mer cores as well, where we can practically target any chipset, libc and architecture with the same ease we build mer normally11:22
jeremiahBut you need BSP stuff don't you?11:22
jeremiahI mean, how do you do graphics acceleration on a SABRE board for example?11:23
Stskeepsoutside our scope of the project, hardware adaptations lay nicely into mer, reuse linaro ones for some stuff, others for other things..11:23
Stskeepssabre is imx?11:23
jeremiahYeah, iMX5311:23
jeremiahSo I assume you target things like dev boards?11:23
jeremiahSince that is easier to get various proprietary blobs onto11:24
jeremiahOr do you have a policy against non-free software?11:24
Stskeepsthe project itself doesn't, we target architectures in general -- but people in the community does, but we try to make it easy for people to make hardware adaptations for mer11:24
Stskeepsmer doesn't contain hardware adaptations11:24
Stskeepshence we don't have a lot of politics either11:24
vgradejeremiah, hi, http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace11:24
Stskeepsvendors in the community around it do those11:24
slaineVendors create hardware adaptations, where a Vendor can be an individual, community, company....11:25
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jeremiahvgrade: Hiya!11:25
jeremiahvgrade: Nice link. :)11:25
Stskeepswe try to refer in mer to vendors without preferential treatment, just listing what they provide, etc11:26
jeremiahOkay11:26
slainejeremiah: Think of it like a foundation project. Mer provides the core os and build system, you provide the kernel and UX as layers into that mix.11:26
lbtjeremiah: hey ...11:26
lbtbeen busy on infra so didn't catch this irc chat :)11:26
slainewhere you == vendor and vendor described as above11:27
lbtyep11:27
jeremiahvgrade: I should test your Mer port on my TrimSlice.11:27
jeremiahslaine: Okay, that makes it clearer for me. :)11:27
jeremiahlbt: :)11:28
jeremiahlbt: Long time no read11:28
timophStskeeps: so you were thinking of adding things like opencv, etc. to the core or making them available from some repo? I know timakima doesn't like to do packaging so I guess I could help with that11:28
Stskeepstimoph: outside mer core11:28
lbtjeremiah: indeed - we've been busy on the JFDI11:28
Stskeepstimoph: in some kind of future UI toolbox11:28
timophack11:29
lbttimoph: I do see collaborative projects coming together around the merproject11:29
slainejeremiah: I think it was cxl000 that did the Mer port for trimslice, been meaning to check that out myself11:29
lbta small one I'm going to start is NFS .... then probably some SMB/CIFS stuff11:29
jeremiahWhere can I get a Mer image?11:30
lbtjeremiah: what for?11:30
jeremiahWell, I guess I could use the Plasma Active one . ..11:30
lbtor Nemo11:30
lbtI have a Joggler one11:31
jeremiahCan I run Nemo in a VM? (I thought I saw that port . . .)11:31
lbtthese are all 'vendor' images11:31
Stskeepsjeremiah: sure, hang on11:31
Stskeepsjeremiah: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/nemo-handset-i586-0.20120120.1.NEMO.2012-02-09.1.iso11:31
Stskeepsignore the "Boot Tizen" part11:31
Stskeepsi screwed up my config ;)11:31
timophStskeeps: lbt yeah so I guess to get this moving we should start by making a obs project containing the needed libs, etc.11:32
jeremiahCool, thanks11:32
Stskeepsjeremiah: this uses LLVMpipe so you get gles enabled11:32
jeremiahnice11:32
* jeremiah gets lunch since its lunchtime11:32
vgradejeremiah, my trimslice, plasma and qtdesktop in http://images.formeego.org/trimslice/11:33
timophI don't really have time to hack with those but will gladly do something to enable hacking with them to see what comes out of it11:33
Stskeeps:nod:11:33
ScriptRipperjeremiah, wrt. to git repos, Stskeeps and me had decided to run some Mer related OBS code repos for: public OBS Mer related deployments and for allowing OBS project to merge our patches and features11:33
lbttimoph: for opencv ?11:33
ScriptRipperso OBS git repo is separate from Mer git repos11:34
timophlbt: dunno what excatly is needed in addition to it11:34
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lbttimoph: no, I'm not sure either11:35
Stskeepsprobably just a project: repo?11:35
timophand someone to police it :)11:36
lbtyeah - but one per lib?11:36
lbtI think it may need to be a bit like Apps4MeeGo11:36
Stskeepsnah, i'd say "FutureUIToolbox"11:36
Stskeepskind of thing11:36
timophdo we have something like Mer:ExtraLibs or something?11:37
lbt*cough* Surrounds11:37
* timoph intentionally avoided using that term11:37
timoph:)11:37
lbtnow why would you do that :)11:37
lbtjeremiah: pm'ed you when you're back11:37
Stskeepsprobably best to help it a bit along by making it a place to put demos and other nice things11:37
Stskeepsso the purpose is to make nice demos and provide those libs11:38
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* timoph nods11:38
lbttimoph: hold that thought.... I'm off to do some work11:38
slainevgrade: nice, I might check those images out later.11:43
* timoph thinking about a Mer virtual machine image for demo purposes11:46
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lbtwb phaeron :)12:01
Stskeepso/ phaeron12:01
phaeronhey everyone :)12:02
lbtgood travelling?12:02
phaeronyeah ...12:03
phaeronwell all is cool12:04
phaeronconnection was in amsterdam's schipol airport :)12:05
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Bostika rather nice place, they even have a local museum exhibit12:11
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phaeronnobody reads the news it seems :D12:17
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Stskeepsphaeron: wasn't there a bomb scare there recently? ..12:18
phaeronyes ..12:18
Stskeepsphaeron: was it related to a n900 somehow? ;)12:18
lbtit was you!12:18
Stskeepsphaeron: so how long did they keep you for / evacuate you for12:19
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w00tphew12:20
phaeroneverything was delayed for an hour. it was in a different terminal so my connection was not affected fortunately :D12:20
w00tI got out of there just in time I guess :P12:20
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sonachStskeeps: I have done that stated in "http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup" already for MeeGo1.2.0 before, and have built some source codes successfully againt this local OBS.12:57
Stskeepsok, then you probably need the fakeobs / mer delivery system stuff12:57
sonachStskeeps: Now when I import Mer's latest packages as repo, I use the same method of imporing MeeGo1.2.0. Then I encounter the rsync problem. When import MeeGo1.2.0, it is OK.12:58
Stskeepssonach: yes, that's because mer isn't meant to be imported like that :)12:59
Stskeepswe use another method as meego 1.2.0's method isn't reliable12:59
sonachah, good, is "http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_Delivery_System" the new method ?12:59
Stskeepsyes12:59
Stskeepsyou might have to upgrade OBS packages soon to fit with our new cross compilation though13:00
sonachVery good, I will be delicated to it tomorrow:)13:00
sonachhmm, It doesn't matther. I think I should try it ASAP to gain some insight about this. When OBS packages are upgraded, I will upgrade.13:01
Stskeepsok13:01
sonachWe should try our best to keep up with Mer's advance:)13:02
sonachStskeeps: Can you tell me how many hard disk GBs needed to setup MDS? Or Whether Can I finish it within one day with 100Mb network bandwidth?13:05
sonach100Mb-->1Mb...13:05
Stskeepssonach: i think that you will only need i586 and armv7l port, so i will help you tomorrow so it only downloads those. source code is 1.7gb (once downloaded don't have to download much but source updates), ARM and X86 binaries to build against is 713mb each13:07
Stskeepsper release13:07
sonach1.7g bits or bytes?13:07
Stskeepsbytes13:07
Stskeepsyou don't technically need to download sources but it's very useful13:08
Stskeeps*** ^^^ (just something for the logs as there was something important there)13:08
sonachyes, you are right, sources are useful.  Later, we may need to look into some source codes to debug and disscuss with you.13:10
Stskeepsyes13:10
sonachStskeeps: in fact, I only need armv7l port for the moment, so maybe it is not necessary for me to download i586 port?13:12
Stskeepssonach: i would recommend i586 because you get much faster feedback on if software doesn't build13:12
Stskeepsit's simply a performance during development thing :)13:12
sonachOK, no problem!13:12
sonach"i will help you tomorrow so it only downloads those" means that: I have difficulities to download i586 and armv7l only refer to the MDS wiki?13:13
sonachIf so, I can install all the needed tools tomorrow morning. And tomorrow afternoon(morning for you...) I do the download stuff.13:15
Stskeepsit means it will try to grab everything right now13:15
Stskeepsthat would work13:15
sonachhmm, may be I can grab sources first; when grab binaries, wait for your help?13:17
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sonachAnyway, I will do necessary preparations tomorrow morning:)13:18
ScriptRipperStskeeps, what do we have agreed with the OBS SUSE folks about SB2 and other fixes merge ?13:22
ScriptRippercan I merge it now into my internal test branch ?13:23
ScriptRipperand what about phaeron fix for prj linking ? had that been discussed with them ?13:25
lbtScriptRipper: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_Build FYI13:25
ScriptRipperis that really fixing a bug ? is it a good idea to change behavior of existing prj linking options ?13:25
Stskeepsright, merproject/ is used to build the obs packages for mer deployments, i think people should have individual git repos that they submit to OBS for13:25
lbtI'm currently deploying that to a new mer c.obs13:26
StskeepsScriptRipper: it fixes a very typical use case13:26
StskeepsScriptRipper: i will be submitting sb2-obs from stskeeps/13:26
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Stskeepsas it's a mess to take from a combined effort place like merproject/13:27
ScriptRipperlbt: is it really a good idea to not use original os 11.4 / 12.1 pkgs where possible ? they had done security bug fixes for those also13:29
phaeronScriptRipper: I discussed with Adrian and he agrees to the change. it seems to be the intended behavior anyway and he thought it was already implmeneted like that.13:29
lbtScriptRipper: yes :)13:30
lbtI am not installing packages and then patching them13:30
ScriptRipperphaeron. ok, if its a bug fix so to say then I pick it up13:30
lbtif we want non-standard obs installed then we have to package from our git13:30
lbtideally we'll be tracking upstream releases and rebasing13:30
ScriptRipperthat was my question: I would start to merge upstream for this branch13:31
lbtyeah - that's a MINT team issue13:31
ScriptRipperI also have some more fixes for that branch13:31
lbtwith my sysadmin hat on I just use their packages13:31
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StskeepsScriptRipper: i think it's best to send pull requests from our individual branches, we can help verify things work in Merproject/ i guess13:32
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ScriptRipperlbt, what do you mean ? orig 11.4 / 12.1 pkg13:32
lbtno, the MINT ones13:32
ScriptRipperand only those not in orig repo use from openSUSE:Tools ?13:32
lbtI *only* zypper ar http://repo.pub.meego.com//Mer:/OBS:/Testing/openSUSE_11.4/Mer:OBS:Testing.repo13:33
lbtit's then up to MINT to keep that current13:33
lbtand notify me when to pull13:33
ScriptRipperok, I also do it like that im my deployments, otherwise it gets tricky13:33
lbtyeah - it's a PITA having to copy loads of packages - but at least this way they only change occasionally13:34
lbtwe also need to do snapshots of the repos to allow reinstall13:34
lbtand I need to share what snapshot each installation is runnin13:35
lbtg13:35
lbtwe have 3 main ones13:35
lbtmeego cobs, mer ci and now mer cobs13:35
lbtplus home installations13:35
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lbtand sonach is going to install obs too iirc13:35
lbtand here he is :)13:35
sonachlbt: yes:)13:36
lbtwe were just discussing managing the system deployments13:36
lbtI'll be using the Mer branch of OBS for meego c.obs, mer ci obs and the new mer c.obs. I think ScriptRipper will do that too and I suggest you try it too13:37
sonachhmm, I don't quite understand the three xxx obs...13:39
lbtmeego c.obs is : https://build.pub.meego.com/13:40
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lbtmer ci OBS is semi-private for now13:40
lbtnew mer c.obs will be like the meego one someday soon13:40
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lbtc.obs means "community obs"   and is for everyone to use and collaborate on13:41
sonachlbt: what's the main difference between mer ci OBS and mer c.obs?13:41
lbtmer ci.obs has no external users on it13:41
sonachlbt: Maybe I don't understand the "semi-private" term...13:41
lbtit's more secure13:41
lbtwe would like to find a way to allow people to browse it13:42
lbtbut no-one actually builds code on there13:42
lbtexcept the automated systems13:42
lbtso whenever a patch is sent to review13:42
lbtthe automated systems build it on ci-obs and check it builds OK13:43
lbtthen they (will soon) build an image and make sure it builds13:43
lbtand then (eventually ) it is flashed to a device and tested13:43
lbtif all that is OK13:43
lbtthe change is accepted13:44
lbtso we don't let messy humans go anywhere near it :)13:44
lbtdoes that make sense?13:45
Stskeepsperhaps you explain 'obs instance' too..13:45
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lbtyeah13:45
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lbtan obs instance is just a deployment ....13:46
sonach_So, what I will try is the new mer c.obs?13:46
lbtso c.obs is a deployment13:46
lbtlike a web service13:46
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lbtyou can have your own deployment in your company13:47
lbtusing the same server code13:47
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sonachoh, mer ci obs and mer's c.obs exists at the same time, mer ci obs is for automated building, and mer's c.obs is exposed to public?13:51
lbtyes, exactly13:51
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lbtbecause we are an open project we want to open ci-obs to public view. But we are also aware that binaries come from there and end up in products. So it's very sensitive13:52
sonachWhen I setup my local OBS, is it similar to "mer ci obs" or "mer c.obs"?13:53
sonachyes, since the binaries come from ci obs, it should be secure:)13:53
lbtyes13:53
lbtthey're not really that different. The main things are access control; project layout and user authentication13:54
lbteg I use LDAP on the community one13:54
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sonachok, thank you for detailed explanation. I will try this in the next few days:)13:55
lbtno problem. In general I can help with all the build and automation systems.13:56
* lbt will be back soon -> off to buy some milk13:56
sonachVery good!!13:57
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Stskeepshello Ravensun14:04
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RavensunStskeeps: Hello.14:05
StskeepsRavensun: welcome - so what brings you to this place?14:05
RavensunStskeeps:  I have one question. Is Mer  other firmware? or it is second GUI after boot?14:06
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StskeepsRavensun: so, do you know the Linux kernel? think of Mer as the core for other software to build upon, just like people build things on top of Linux kernel14:06
Stskeepsso people put UIs on top of Mer, adapt it to certain hardware14:08
Stskeepsand make that into a product14:08
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lbtback ... coffee on14:38
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RavensunStskeeps:  a Little know what linux kernel is14:53
RavensunStskeeps:  so if I understand well, Mer is kernel?14:55
lbtRavensun: Mer sits between the kernel and the UI14:55
StskeepsMer is kind of software that can be the core of products14:55
Stskeepslbt: we need diagrams14:56
matrixxMer - The Shiniest Core ;)14:56
RavensunStskeeps:  I see.14:57
slaineOooo, shiny14:57
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lbtStskeeps: yes ... I have some14:59
slaineRavensun: In simple reductionist term, from our perspective, a Product is made up of modules. The Linux kernel and drivers for a hardware platform, A Core OS to run the whole system, an a UX layer for interaction that sites on top of the Core OS and Kernel.14:59
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slaineWe're providing the Core OS and Tools that allow someone to make a "product" where they provide the Kernel and UX parts.15:00
Stskeepsi see we're getting slaine trained well to spread the good word of Mer ;)15:00
slaineNow, it's possible to mix and match to a certain degree, see armv7, x86 Kernels and Nemo UX15:00
slaineStskeeps: lol, I've not time for anything else, I may as well help where I can :)15:01
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lbtit's good to see how other people explain Mer15:02
RavensunThanks to all for lecture :)15:03
Stskeepsno problme15:03
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slaineI guess the next question is, Am I giving out good explanations or should I shut the hell up15:05
Stskeepsi have no objections15:06
AWasistoSorry, I want to ask about dialy updates. Are qt-components updated in the newest version of Mer?15:07
StskeepsAWasisto: we don't carry qt-components but they should run fine on top of Mer directly, Nemo has it and we're looking into upgrading tem15:08
Stskeeps(we noticed too they're a bit, erm, old)15:08
AWasistoThanks... :)15:09
Stskeepswhat do you hope to use them for?15:09
veskuhStskeeps: well, three months old. that is actually not so bad and actually working quite fine.15:10
Stskeeps:nod:15:11
AWasistoNothing...15:11
Stskeepsalright - i do on occasion ponder if qt-components belong in core or not15:15
veskuhThey would pull maliit and other things to work correctly15:16
veskuhSo core would move more and more to UI side15:16
veskuhI'm not saying that it is bad, it just wouldnt be as generic as it is now.15:18
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Stskeepsyeah, good point15:21
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slainePersonally, I don't think qt should be in the core either. Unless it's a stripped down console only version of qt15:46
slaineA mer reference UX that boots to QtDesktop with QMLViewer and QtWidget/JS stuff is ideal for that.15:47
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ScriptRipperlbt, wrt to http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Mer_OBS_Build, dont we need also an own version of osc at the moment ?15:48
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lbthttps://build.pub.meego.com/project/packages?project=Mer%3ATools%3ATesting15:49
vgradecan people see this https://cacoo.com/diagrams/kbbRiJSBNXidFAOm?15:50
vgradecan people see this https://cacoo.com/diagrams/kbbRiJSBNXidFAOm15:50
lbtI can see the second one but not the first ...15:50
lbtthey should be concentric15:51
lbtlike a rainbow wheel where you line them up to make a product :)15:51
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lbtcool tool though15:59
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Stskeeps'lo robtaylor16:10
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Stskeepshello thanhtung285 :)16:18
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Stskeepsdespite all appearances, i am -not- a bot16:23
Stskeeps:P16:23
odin__invalid response, please try again, turing test failure16:24
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* dm8tbr throws Stskeeps a botsnack17:12
lbtit seems I'm very good at finding failure modes17:12
* lbt kicks ldap17:12
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* lbt notes that python <3 doesn't support TLS/SNI :(18:45
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slaineSigh, still at work breaking things20:05
slainethink I should go to the pub20:06
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iekkuif the breaking isn't testing, then it's best if you leave work and come back after good night sleep20:07
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slaineiekku: exactly20:08
slaineI'm flip/flopping between stuff that always worked breaking from minor changes that shouldn't affect it to wondering how certain things ever works at all20:09
slainetime to go20:09
slainesee you tomorrow guys20:09
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cxl000jeremiah, slaine: I have not completed integrate of the 2.01 trimslice drop and hardfp drivers are not yet released. The 1.03 drop has both hardfp and softfp but the nvidia drivers have a bug that effects egl context selection. there is a workaround which would need to be applied to each application.21:13
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yavkatahi, does anyone now how to specify which modules to load at boot? there's no /etc/modules or /etc/modules.conf...21:44
befordmodprobe.d ?21:44
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befordcheck if there is /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf in mer yavkata , I don't have any image at hand21:45
yavkatathere's modprobe.d, but not modprobe.conf inside.. if I create it, it should be read during boot, right?21:47
vgradesa21:50
vgradeetc/modules-load.d/*.conf for systemd21:50
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yavkatathanks :)21:54
befordwhy they keep changing stuff :C I didn' know systemd did the module loading thing21:54
yavkatawell, I hope it's for the better21:55
yavkataI succeeded in booting nemo on n921:55
yavkatausing these instructions http://jon.severinsson.net/NemoN9/Nemo-Mobile-N9-instructions.txt21:55
yavkatabut it seems like some modules are not loaded at boot21:55
yavkataI can load them manually, but.. I need to load them at boot21:56
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