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| Stskeeps | morn | 05:53 |
|---|---|---|
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| Stskeeps | alh: i occasionally wonder when my talks get accepted this exact thought: my god, did i really write that in my abstract? | 06:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 06:29 |
| Stskeeps | heh, well that's a funny place to find a merproject.org reference | 07:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2011/initial/sflc.pdf | 07:01 |
| timoph | yeah | 07:11 |
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| fosstux | Hi! I've subscribed to mer-general a few days ago - now I'd like to unsubscribe because I've sold my n900. But when sending an email to mer-general+unsubscribe-digest@lists.merproject.org, I get a mail back, that I'm not subscribed to the list mer-general... | 07:31 |
| fosstux | What am I doing wrong? | 07:31 |
| Stskeeps | fosstux: how did you subscribe? | 07:31 |
| fosstux | by sending a mail to mer-general+subscribe-digest@lists.merproject.org | 07:32 |
| fosstux | ah. | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | are you Christopher R. Parr by chance? | 07:32 |
| fosstux | yes | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | well, i saw a blank email from you to mer-general@ at least | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | so that might have been the subscribe attempt? | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | on 8th february | 07:32 |
| fosstux | oI think I know what's wrong: I'll send a mail to mer-general+unsubscribe@lists.merproject.org - so without -digest | 07:33 |
| fosstux | no | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | let me know if it doesn't work | 07:34 |
| fosstux | it worked. Thanks | 07:35 |
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| Stskeeps | huomenta jukka | 07:44 |
| jukkaeklund | huomenta | 07:44 |
| jukkaeklund | seen this http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=5695 | 07:44 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but given how much trouble a similar approach caused on n900, i'm a bit wary of it | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | and it requires open mode kernel likely | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | if you have open mode, you might as well just try to kexec instead | 07:45 |
| jukkaeklund | kexec is disabled in N9 afaik | 07:46 |
| Stskeeps | mm, in closed mode maybe | 07:46 |
| jukkaeklund | open mode kernel for harmattan? | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | right, it does exist | 07:48 |
| jukkaeklund | I'm lost.. whats blocking marquiz's dualbooter from working in N9? | 07:50 |
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| Stskeeps | well, i think part of it is that it would normally install into the moslo partition which isn't really in use | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | i guess you can make a combination if you install this into the root file system | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | once i'm 'free', i can look more into this personally | 07:53 |
| jukkaeklund | ah right, moslo is disabled in N9.. | 07:53 |
| jukkaeklund | I wonder does the warranty void thing show with that preinit hack | 07:54 |
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| Stskeeps | i would assume so | 07:54 |
| Stskeeps | else aegis will kill things | 07:55 |
| jukkaeklund | Stskeeps, I think method to dual boot in N9 is long overdue.. | 07:55 |
| jukkaeklund | maybe marquiz could take a look as well? | 07:55 |
| Stskeeps | perhaps | 07:55 |
| Stskeeps | i'll put some time into it during next week, if nothing pre-empts it | 07:56 |
| jukkaeklund | ty | 07:56 |
| Stskeeps | i've devised a way to do deepily embedded systems from scratch with the ease of using OBS and unmodified rpm packaging, so that idea warrants me to take a bit of time | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | could blow several existing solutions out of the market | 07:57 |
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| Stskeeps | could change how people build mobile devices, too | 07:58 |
| jukkaeklund | sure :) | 07:59 |
| jukkaeklund | cant wait to see a demo on a piece of glass :p | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 07:59 |
| jukkaeklund | wondering do I need to get a new "tablet".. | 08:00 |
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| jukkaeklund | nook, spark, archos.. | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | i'd say archos g9 has the most potential | 08:00 |
| jukkaeklund | yeah | 08:01 |
| jukkaeklund | and OMAP4 | 08:01 |
| jukkaeklund | for 279e :o | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | as well as http://www.archos.com/products/gen9/archos_g9_3g_stick/index.html?country=ni&lang=en | 08:01 |
| jukkaeklund | indeed | 08:01 |
| jukkaeklund | though how well thats going to work with mer etc? | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | i actually don't know what modem that one is.. let me look | 08:03 |
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| Stskeeps | it's compatible with normal pc/mac so i assume ofono would be able to handle it | 08:03 |
| jukkaeklund | their model naming is getting out of hand.. | 08:06 |
| jukkaeklund | also "turbo" is OMAP4460, but what does this mean: 'from 1.2GHz to 1.5GHz (at start of 2012)' | 08:06 |
| jukkaeklund | I'll get it anyway, lets see if somebody wants to pay the bill.. | 08:07 |
| _av500_ | jukkaeklund: 1.5ghz units have been phased in now | 08:08 |
| _av500_ | all production is 1.5 now | 08:08 |
| jukkaeklund | ok, thanks | 08:09 |
| jukkaeklund | how do I make sure its 1.5 and not old stock if I get one? | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: happen to know what modem chipset sits in the 3g stick? | 08:09 |
| _av500_ | i can find out | 08:10 |
| _av500_ | could be as simple as some qualcomm | 08:10 |
| jukkaeklund | eg I'm looking at this page which says 1.2-1.5 http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=16996&setcurrency=eur | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: that'd be great | 08:10 |
| _av500_ | jukkaeklund: I am not saying our marketing did a great job with the 1.2 vs 1.5 confusion | 08:10 |
| jukkaeklund | :) really cool if you could check it | 08:11 |
| jukkaeklund | so it's a different variant of OMAP4460? | 08:12 |
| _av500_ | the 1.2 is 4430 | 08:12 |
| _av500_ | afaik | 08:12 |
| jukkaeklund | hmm | 08:12 |
| * _av500_ is confused too | 08:12 | |
| jukkaeklund | :) | 08:13 |
| jukkaeklund | so is it that simple, Turbo is 4460 and older one 4430? | 08:13 |
| _av500_ | older turbo is 4420@1.2 | 08:14 |
| _av500_ | 4430 | 08:14 |
| jukkaeklund | :/ | 08:14 |
| jukkaeklund | so I'd want the new Turbo | 08:14 |
| _av500_ | yes | 08:15 |
| _av500_ | as i said all the new stuff is 4460 | 08:15 |
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| jukkaeklund | sure, but some retailer might have the old one which they try to get rid of | 08:18 |
| jukkaeklund | is there a model number etc to check? | 08:19 |
| * jukkaeklund looking at http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=57216&p=373705 | 08:22 | |
| timoph | huh. forum.meego still exists? | 08:23 |
| * timoph looks | 08:23 | |
| jukkaeklund | timoph, why it wouldn't? | 08:23 |
| timoph | dunno. maybe it's just my ignorance | 08:24 |
| timoph | pretty much washed my hand from meego.com activities some months ago | 08:24 |
| jukkaeklund | sure, but you're looking at it a bit strict.. | 08:25 |
| timoph | yep | 08:25 |
| jukkaeklund | eg. whats in a name.. | 08:25 |
| timoph | I know | 08:26 |
| jukkaeklund | so this is the best deal I could find now: http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=16996 | 08:29 |
| * timoph is tempted | 08:30 | |
| jukkaeklund | sorry :) | 08:31 |
| timoph | about what? | 08:31 |
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| timoph | teasing me with gadgets? don't be ;) | 08:31 |
| jukkaeklund | heh | 08:33 |
| jukkaeklund | there is also a 8" model with same HW | 08:33 |
| timoph | at least I prefer the smaller one | 08:33 |
| timoph | 10' is too big for me | 08:33 |
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| timoph | what would be interesting IMO would be a device with eink display that can boot custom stuff | 08:35 |
| jukkaeklund | yep | 08:36 |
| Termana | morning | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: there is such devices.. hang on | 08:36 |
| * timoph hangs on | 08:36 | |
| jukkaeklund | kindle not? | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | http://openinkpot.org/wiki/Hardware | 08:37 |
| timoph | :D | 08:39 |
| timoph | 'Work in progress (usually it means "Nothing works yet")' | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | well at least they're up front ;) | 08:41 |
| timoph | seems that the supported devices are mostly older versions | 08:46 |
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| boar | i installed openinkpot on my Hanlin v3 | 08:55 |
| boar | was way slower than the factory OS | 08:55 |
| boar | but it did work | 08:55 |
| boar | forget xactly how much slower, but it had PDF refloew, better fonts, all sorts of nice stuff not on factory OS | 08:56 |
| boar | also that hanlin v3 was a 200 mhz MIPS, not exactly performant | 08:57 |
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| Stskeeps | morn phaeron | 09:02 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: morning | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: i've updated Merproject/ with sb2 patches, your transparent prjlinks and brought it to sync with upstream | 09:02 |
| phaeron | cool | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | trial packaging runs more than welcome | 09:03 |
| phaeron | in a second :) | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | no problem, just letting you know :) | 09:04 |
| Sage_ | hello all | 09:06 |
| Stskeeps | morn sage | 09:06 |
| Stskeeps | Sage_: did you see my black magic build? | 09:08 |
| Sage_ | Stskeeps: so what is the status of 0.20120209.x should it be moved to 0.20120216.x ? | 09:08 |
| Sage_ | Stskeeps: black magic build? | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | Sage_: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/fun.txt | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | top and bottom | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | Sage_: i think 16 is more realistic atm as we are finally making OBS packages for the sb2-obs etc stuff | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | content wise, 0.0.3 is pretty much a prerelease | 09:09 |
| Sage_ | Stskeeps: echo $PATH? | 09:10 |
| Sage_ | binaries do not need to locate in those usual dirs | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | Sage_: long story short, the target is void of actual tools, everything is being done by the x86 side tools | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | Sage_: transparently | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | (no $PATH obscure stuff involved) | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | there's even no 'bash' in the target chroot | 09:11 |
| Sage_ | ok, so no "tricks" :) | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | well, sb2 is a giant trick | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | but this means you can do very small stacks, with the ease of OBS and spec files | 09:11 |
| Sage_ | well you can put it like that as well :) | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | imagine bootstrapping cross compiler, uclibc, add busybox package on top, perhaps qt, in a nice small OBS project | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | just like we put together stacks atm | 09:13 |
| Sage_ | what is the way to get to the x86 side? I though that it goes with binaries that link on that side or something. | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? well, right now this is just a proof of concept, it piggypacks on a mer platform sdk | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | piggybacks, that is | 09:14 |
| Sage_ | Let me ask this say in the very beginning there is e.g. gzip cmd called that is not located in the env. Where does that call actually go then? | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | that gets caught by the exec() handler in sb2 and redirected to be using the x86/tools side gzip inside | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | instead | 09:15 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=Mer:OBS:Testing:Devel built fine | 09:16 |
| Sage_ | ah, ok so like every cmd that is executed is caught by sb2 if it is not in the env itself | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | right, it's caught always | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | basically sb2 can change the perception of file system for a process and execution strategies | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | phaeron: ok, so we should try this out on cfe/cbe today i guess | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | (the 'new' cobs) | 09:17 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: TCL chipset not QC | 09:18 |
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| Stskeeps | TCL being acronym for..? | 09:19 |
| _av500_ | for the company called TCL | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | such fantastic choices of names to google for.. | 09:20 |
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| Sage_ | Stskeeps: btw, the kmod package update is required for the systemd and udev updates. Thus those fail atm. | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | add a comment to those two so i can see when to re-evaluate them? | 09:41 |
| Sage_ | done | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 09:43 |
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| matrixx | Stskeeps: if you're putting the slides up to fosdem page, here's mine: http://www.slideshare.net/setelani/towards-accelerated-uis-with-power-of-qt5-project-cinnamon | 10:05 |
| jukkaeklund | stskeeps, here ours http://www.slideshare.net/jukkaeklund/fosdem2012-community-apps-repository/ | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | ta, grabbing | 10:10 |
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| jukkaeklund | timoph, ordered :) | 10:30 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/12/spark-pre-orders-delayed-but-heres-a-video-instead-video/ | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | Mer on engadget | 10:34 |
| timoph | jukkaeklund: bring it to the hack day if you get it before that | 10:36 |
| jukkaeklund | timoph, sure it says 1-2 days | 10:37 |
| jukkaeklund | hackday for me still open.. family might have other plans | 10:37 |
| jukkaeklund | stskeeps, you sure its running the mer-based image and not meego.. | 10:37 |
| * Stskeeps glances over at vgrade | 10:37 | |
| timoph | :) | 10:38 |
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| Stskeeps | jukkaeklund: i at least hope so, or i have to beat up vgrade for choosing a bad title | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:38 |
| jukkaeklund | :) | 10:39 |
| jukkaeklund | publicity is good, but comments not so good | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:40 |
| jukkaeklund | is there a nemo image already? | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't have working x11 | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | well | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | working gles for x11 | 10:40 |
| jukkaeklund | how does plasma work? | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | it's software rendering in that video | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | ie, qt's raster engine | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | so it can be a lot nicer | 10:41 |
| jukkaeklund | ah well, would be good to mention there | 10:42 |
| jukkaeklund | for raster based thats impressive | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 10:42 |
| * Sage_ stares at pkg-config upstream version | 10:43 | |
| Sage_ | pkg-config latest upstream requires pkg-config o_0 | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, hrmm | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:44 |
| Sage_ | it requires glib2 now apparently and well that bring deps :/ | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=45599 | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=45599 | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | er | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/pkg-config/2011-May/000758.html | 10:46 |
| timoph | is there a ready made PA Mer image floating around somewhere (x86 for exo)? | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | i really wish that some open source people had a sense about circular dependencies in code | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | cmake deps on xmlrpc-c which deps on cmake, as an example | 10:46 |
| timoph | :) | 10:46 |
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| Aard | Stskeeps: really annpying when introduced in thing under your control (as happened in harmattan) which bites you when you need to bootstrap again... | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:50 |
| * timoph found it | 10:50 | |
| timoph | http://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/mer_x86_usb_live_and_install_archive/ | 10:50 |
| timoph | in case someone else is lazy as well ^ | 10:50 |
| * Stskeeps heads out | 10:58 | |
| lbt | morning all | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: see my messages to phaeron earlier this morning about Merproject/ | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | i have to go out for >4 hours now | 11:04 |
| lbt | will look | 11:06 |
| lbt | l8r .... have a good one | 11:06 |
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| _av500_ | Stskeeps: search for X200 alcatel | 11:26 |
| _av500_ | u need recent usb modeswitch | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | ok, manageable | 11:27 |
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| Venemo_N950 | hi guys | 11:30 |
| lbt | o/ Venemo_N950 | 11:40 |
| jukkaeklund | timoph, let us know how it goes with PA & exo. Had a try earlier and it wasn't good.. | 11:41 |
| lbt | timoph: before I dive back in - did you have any changes to the sdk ks/yaml stuff that I need to merge? | 11:43 |
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| timoph | lbt: not yet | 11:48 |
| lbt | np | 11:48 |
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| lbt | hey paulsherwood | 12:49 |
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| paulsherwood | hey lbt, how's it going? | 13:23 |
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| lbt | paulsherwood: working on the platform SDK this weekend - sorry to have missed you at FOSDEM (again!) | 13:39 |
| lbt | things are doing rather nicely though - Stskeeps has been pushing our sb2 forward and it's looking quite special | 13:41 |
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| Venemo_N950 | I've sticked a Mer sticker on my Ideapad :) | 14:05 |
| lbt | I'm not allowed to yet ... | 14:09 |
| lbt | I really must install mer on there | 14:09 |
| jukkaeklund | same here.. waiting I can run Mer as VM :) | 14:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | I haven't installed Mer on it yet (still running that archaic MeeGo netbook build), but I like the sticker :) | 14:12 |
| lbt | jukkaeklund: well, the SDK work should make that more feasible | 14:12 |
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| lbt | jukkaeklund: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=00sdk.yaml&package=sdk-kickstarter-configs&project=home%3Albt%3Abranches%3AMer%3ATools%3ATesting&srcmd5=d0c7359c2d73762f8c72901fe551bbfa line 69 | 14:13 |
| jukkaeklund | yep | 14:16 |
| paulsherwood | lbt: yes, me too - i was only there for saturday, sadly. saw Stskeeps talk | 14:19 |
| lbt | *nod* | 14:20 |
| lbt | the mobile dev room got a lot of attention which was nice | 14:20 |
| paulsherwood | seems like a lot is happening ;) | 14:20 |
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| lbt | for sure | 14:22 |
| lbt | a fair few Tizen folk there too | 14:23 |
| lbt | low key though | 14:23 |
| paulsherwood | rasterman presentation was pretty well attended | 14:25 |
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| lbt | yeah - not sure I learned anything though | 14:25 |
| paulsherwood | about efl, or tizen? | 14:26 |
| lbt | either.... and the usage examples didn't make me go "wow. productivity nirvana!" | 14:26 |
| lbt | ie there was nothing new | 14:26 |
| paulsherwood | aren't we too old to expect "productivity nirvana"? | 14:26 |
| paulsherwood | :) | 14:26 |
| lbt | *g* | 14:26 |
| lbt | I take it you're not using Mer then? | 14:27 |
| paulsherwood | not yet... we're still wrestling with the innards | 14:27 |
| lbt | seriously though .... the contrast to the Qt presentations was stark | 14:27 |
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| paulsherwood | s/innards/low level stuff/ | 14:28 |
| lbt | for baserock? | 14:28 |
| paulsherwood | yes | 14:28 |
| lbt | Carsten said that was moving along | 14:29 |
| paulsherwood | yes it is | 14:29 |
| lbt | I lurk a bit but haven't caught up in a while tbh | 14:30 |
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| paulsherwood | not much to see yet :) | 14:30 |
| lbt | usual focus issues | 14:30 |
| lbt | I think we're close to the "coming together" point | 14:30 |
| paulsherwood | cool | 14:31 |
| lbt | 2 or 3 big areas to refine but we know what they are | 14:31 |
| lbt | SDK, VC and SB2 | 14:31 |
| lbt | and we have solutions and designs so it's now grind | 14:31 |
| paulsherwood | what do those stand for? | 14:31 |
| * paulsherwood assumes SDK is your developer kit | 14:32 | |
| lbt | yes, platform SDK is essentially the non-Qt dev stuff | 14:32 |
| lbt | images, and builds | 14:32 |
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| lbt | VC is just how we handle versioning and packaging - OBS isn't great at it and our initial hack needs improvement | 14:32 |
| lbt | SB2 is the new scratchbox2 cross-compile methodology | 14:33 |
| paulsherwood | did you see liw's talk on the problems with packaging? | 14:33 |
| lbt | no but that got videoed iirc | 14:33 |
| lbt | was it good? | 14:34 |
| paulsherwood | he's blogged most of the text... faster to digest that way http://liw.fi/rethinking-distro-dev/ | 14:34 |
| lbt | ta | 14:34 |
| paulsherwood | i'm sure it touches on problems you're already aware of | 14:35 |
| lbt | we did have a discussion on this and the concept came up of much bigger things that look a little like statically linked blobs | 14:36 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: when you're back.... what's @BUILD_ID@ in kickstarter? I did @ARCH@ and @RELEASE@ in http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Kickstarter#Repository_setup | 15:35 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: a system i'm not very fond of | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: @BUILD_ID@ is utilized in mic2 with --release=BUILD_ID | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | it does not support the whole core-ui-hw adaptation splitup very well | 16:29 |
| lbt | OK | 16:31 |
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| Stskeeps | it's totally up to you how you want to deal with that, your area | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:32 |
| lbt | cool | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | it cannot include ~'s or things representable only with %XX url encodings, nor unicode | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:34 |
| lbt | well, now I know what it is it turns out that IMG has a place to enter it | 16:35 |
| lbt | so we can look to get rid - but tbh I assume we'll redo this with mic ASAP | 16:35 |
| lbt | and I assume you know mic2 won't install in an SDK due to missing wget and rsync | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | 'mic', not 'mic2' | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | don't waste time on mic2 | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | i am seriously considering to add wget and rsync to core, or prominently in tools | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | though curl -O works | 16:37 |
| lbt | I'd skip wget since curl is fine | 16:37 |
| lbt | rsync though - that makes sense | 16:37 |
| lbt | but when needed | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: my core-toolchain split can build acl, attr, busybox, zlib so far without hitch | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | (and libtool) | 16:38 |
| lbt | \o/ | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | so i think i'm really on to something cool | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | did i mention it's unmodified spec files? | 16:39 |
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| lbt | does that rely on spec not having a BR on somehing provided by sb2? | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | no, i'll provide a toolchain-provides package that has Provides: name = version for each | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | and it should resolve fine | 16:41 |
| lbt | ok | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | it also means there's no more endless rebuild loops in builds for ports | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | as this happens in toolchain | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | which is x86 only | 16:43 |
| lbt | yeah - that makes sense | 16:43 |
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| Stskeeps | it does put some philosophical thoughts into how to develop, etc, sdk chroots, but ilet's see how it turns out | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | it's kind of unexplored land | 16:49 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: so, how did the day go? | 17:47 |
| lbt | I has chroots | 17:49 |
| lbt | so can't be that bad | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | congrats :) | 17:49 |
| lbt | playing with the host sharing too - making the mount a bit more robust | 17:50 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm trying to see if i can get my idea going in obs | 17:54 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: can we make it a priority to verify tomorrow that our 'new' cobs can run merproject obs packages and build arm packages? | 17:55 |
| lbt | yeah - need to do handover from phaeron | 17:55 |
| lbt | he's travelling tomorrow | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | ah, true | 17:55 |
| lbt | I have a while longer tonight on the SDK anyhow | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | yes, that's fine | 17:56 |
| lbt | so I think OBS tomorrow will be OK | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | because if that works, we can possibly deploy to first mer obs, then to real cobs | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | so we can get newest release prerelease gong | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | going | 17:56 |
| lbt | *nod* | 17:56 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: did you spot https://twitter.com/FOSSNewsChannel yet? | 18:04 |
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| _av500_ | Stskeeps: nice | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | the oss community really needs a healthy dose of self reflection/self irony | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:13 |
| Bostik | that is brilliant | 18:17 |
| lbt | hehe ... no, that's a new one for me | 18:17 |
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| Stskeeps | evening alien_ | 18:27 |
| alien_ | hello | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | how are things? | 18:27 |
| alien_ | I had a very lazy w/e | 18:28 |
| alien_ | as usual | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, always good to have once in a while | 18:29 |
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| Stskeeps | i was travelling around for 11 days, so i was just happy to be back to hacking :P | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | was there ever any response on the texture-from-pixmap bug report? | 18:30 |
| alien_ | nope, and I broke my VM completely | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | ah, okay | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | i plan on getting into llvmpipe again in ~5 days or so | 18:31 |
| alien_ | I am afraid I need to redo it from scratch | 18:31 |
| alien_ | but this is low priority now | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:31 |
| alien_ | I would like to focus my efforts on my set-top-box for a few weeks | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | i know that feeling -- i'm getting so tired of my boxee setup being broke | 18:33 |
| alien_ | and in the process see if we can get started a XBMC(or qtMediaHub) community around mer | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | and i want to move away from that | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | qtmediahub we have packaged and there's people trying to make real products with it | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | xbmc also exists packaged | 18:33 |
| alien_ | I know that Sage was working on this in the past | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | qtmediahub even works nicely with qt raster engine | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | ie, no need for gles | 18:34 |
| alien_ | well, this is for my AMD E350-based system | 18:36 |
| alien_ | this is pretty powerful, but last time I checked the XBMC VA-API was pretty broken | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | that a SSSE3 able processor not? | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | or not, that is | 18:37 |
| alien_ | this was more than 6 months ago | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | ok, is ssse3 able, according to wikipedia | 18:37 |
| alien_ | it is | 18:38 |
| alien_ | does qtmediahub support VA-API? | 18:39 |
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| Stskeeps | well it will use qtmultimedia and gstreamer | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | so if that suppors it.. | 18:39 |
| alien_ | will check | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | gst-va used to exist at least | 18:45 |
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| Crnkoj | hey vgrade are you here? we tried several kernel configs for booting the mer core image on the tegra2 phone, but always just reboots and no output to the screen, do you have any ideas ? | 18:48 |
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| alex___ | hello | 18:51 |
| alex___ | is someone here? | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | hello alex___ :) | 18:52 |
| alex___ | hi | 18:52 |
| Crnkoj | hello alex___ :D | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | so what brings you here? | 18:52 |
| alex___ | I wanted some info about mer | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | go ahead, ask some questions :) | 18:52 |
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| alex___ | I have read that spark will provide this os | 18:52 |
| alex___ | my question is: | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | plasma active will be based on top of mer on top of spark, yeah | 18:53 |
| alex___ | will I be able to install all the applications that actually run on linux? | 18:53 |
| alex___ | I mean the hardware is arm | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | it's a pretty bog standard linux system | 18:53 |
| alex___ | I do not know if all apps are installable on arm | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | it's up to the spark people how they want to do it though | 18:53 |
| Venemo_N950 | alex___, you can install basically anything that can be compiled for ARM | 18:54 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps i had actually one question too, recently i got me the humble bundle for android and apart from the android versions they have linux versions for x86 and x86_64 aswell, now my question is do you think it would be possible to convince them to make a linux .rpm/.deb package of them compiled for arm aswell ? | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | (and you'll take the effort to package and build...) | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: i think it comes down to GLES support and providing them with easy tools | 18:54 |
| Venemo_N950 | indeed | 18:54 |
| alex___ | so I'll be able to install a debian arm too? | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think they're locking it down, so i'd assume so | 18:55 |
| alex___ | and switch to debian completely | 18:55 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps im not entirely sure what to think of your anwser ^ ^ | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | it's a computer, but do keep in mind it's a mobile device | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: okay, so, if you give them an easy sdk tod o so, it's feasible | 18:55 |
| Crnkoj | ah ok | 18:55 |
| Crnkoj | i meant more like | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: that's the platform SDK work we're doing | 18:56 |
| Crnkoj | couldnt they just compile the sources they have for arm ? | 18:56 |
| Crnkoj | like i do for my pandaboard? | 18:56 |
| Venemo_N950 | alex___, not sure why you'd want to do that, but I think you can | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: there's always pitfalls like alignment and hardcoded assembly or other x86 assumptions | 18:56 |
| Crnkoj | for the apps/games ? | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | ut yes | 18:56 |
| alex___ | I explain | 18:56 |
| Crnkoj | ut ? | 18:56 |
| alex___ | I have a sheevaplug with debian installed | 18:56 |
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| alex___ | I would like to use on the spark all the applications I use in debian | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: "but" | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: you may be able to, but you'd have to handle the hardware adaptation yourself | 18:57 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeepsim just thinking out loud, but wouldnt be quite beneficiary for mer/meego to get as many people as possible interested to do apps, maybe you guys could contact the humble guys if its possible and feasible for them to do it | 18:57 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps ill ask them myself aswell, but i think a group of devs for mer might have more influence on their decision | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: yes, no doubt, but we're not trying to do an ecosystem here, vendors work together on that | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | we don't even promise binary compatibility :) | 18:58 |
| Crnkoj | aha ok | 18:58 |
| Crnkoj | ye i know vendors :) | 18:58 |
| Crnkoj | its not all vendors though ;) | 18:58 |
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| alex___ | what do you think about the spark? | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | alex___: a good direction, we're happy to see people use mer as a core | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | for their products | 18:59 |
| alex___ | what is the relation between your dev group and the company that will sell the device? | 19:00 |
| Venemo_N950 | I have my doubts about Plasma Active, but otherwise it's a good direction, yes | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: mer produces a core, doesn't do touch hardware adaptations or ui's, our customers are vendors like spark and/or plasma active | 19:01 |
| alex___ | ok | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: plasma active is represented in the mer advisory board as to help influence direction | 19:01 |
| alex___ | ok | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | so, that's the relation | 19:01 |
| alex___ | clear | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | we enable them to not having to worry about the core systems work, they can focus on hardware (spark) and UI (plasma active) | 19:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, I'd like to ask something too. who's funding the Mer project? | 19:02 |
| alex___ | what about to delete the core and install ubuntu with unity? | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: well, you'd have to ask others about that :) | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: it's a co-operative, people who use it pitch in | 19:02 |
| alex___ | is it feasable? | 19:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | alex___, unity is unsuitable for touchscreen use | 19:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, ah, I see :) | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: if you want to do another system on spark, spark would have to be unlocked (which it probably is by standard) and you'd have to handle all the stuff yourself | 19:03 |
| alex___ | I do not know I neverr used it | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: first advisory board will have a short statement on who pays what | 19:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, I'm asking just out of curiosity :) | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: :nod: | 19:04 |
| alex___ | I would like to use mer to run applications like the gimp or libreoffice or librecad...is it possible? | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: we've been able to push work into it because of the nemo work but that part ends soon from nokia side | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: if you package it up, but do recall it's a capactive touchscreen | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | tablet is not desktop | 19:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, how soon? and what'll happen to Nemo then? | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: it goes on as long as there's contributors | 19:05 |
| alex___ | package...do you mean compile myself or something more sophisticated? | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: we converted into a open source project long ago, i haven't really touched closed source side for ages | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: compile/package in spec files | 19:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | how optimistic are you about it? :) | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: i think there's something really good there and people should realize that | 19:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | yeah, people should. | 19:06 |
| alex___ | will someone precomplie those big applications for mer? | 19:06 |
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| Venemo_N950 | alex___, which ones? | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: well, people within the mer community, maybe, but the project itself only concerns itself with making a good core and tools surrounding it | 19:07 |
| alex___ | the gimp, libreoffice | 19:07 |
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| Venemo_N950 | alex___, those things are outside the scope of Mer. | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: you can probably use debian in a chroot if you so desire | 19:07 |
| alex___ | I think the biggest problem is the porting to arm. For that you should have a great amount of time and resources | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | you would actually think o | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | so | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | these days it's really not that bad | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | libreoffice is an exceptin | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | my keyboard sucks. | 19:08 |
| alex___ | yup | 19:08 |
| Venemo_N950 | alex___, actually, the biggest problem is that all the apps you mentioned aren't designed for touchscreen use. | 19:09 |
| alex___ | I was aware that ubuntu wanted to port all the software to arm | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | we're very intentionally not trying to contain the kitchen sink :) | 19:09 |
| alex___ | already in 9.10 | 19:09 |
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| Venemo_N950 | alex___, also, Mer intends to produce a stable core. not concerned with UI or apps. at least if I understood correctly :) | 19:10 |
| alex___ | mer is a great proj | 19:10 |
| alex___ | I see | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | what you can do with spark, well, it's a open device and a computer, you can probably do everything with it :) | 19:10 |
| alex___ | the only problem is: without apps what could you do? | 19:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | about apps support, you'd better ask the PA folks at #active | 19:11 |
| alex___ | Pa? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: hehe, a lot :) let me show a video | 19:11 |
| alex___ | how do I go into that chat? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | /join #active | 19:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | Plasma Active is the user interface on the Spark | 19:11 |
| alex___ | I see | 19:12 |
| alex___ | thax for the info | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | alex___: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShRnOazNu9Q&list=UUt3jrWgutwPvS79NfGs9MQQ&index=4&feature=plcp is a handset user interface on top of Mer + apps | 19:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | :) | 19:12 |
| alex___ | I join the other chat | 19:12 |
| alex___ | wait | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | we have UI toolkits like Qt, or HTML5 with webkit | 19:12 |
| alex___ | I watch the video first | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | (that's not the UI on spark, just for good measure) | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | just a different use of mer | 19:13 |
| Venemo_N950 | indeed | 19:14 |
| alex___ | ok | 19:15 |
| alex___ | watched | 19:15 |
| alex___ | I go | 19:16 |
| alex___ | good night | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | you can be in both :) | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | but okay | 19:16 |
| alex___ | ok I remain | 19:16 |
| alex___ | hehe | 19:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | :) | 19:16 |
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| alex___ | in active board is actually nobody active... | 19:18 |
| alex___ | is has been desactivated | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | there's a mailing list | 19:18 |
| alex___ | I see but I'll try tommorrow | 19:19 |
| alex___ | in you r opinion would be possible to run android on mer? | 19:19 |
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| Stskeeps | more difficult, android has it's own libc and such | 19:20 |
| alex___ | I have seen somewhere it is already possible | 19:21 |
| wmarone | sure, I believe a handful of proprietary products make it possible (though to what degree I am not sure) | 19:24 |
| Venemo_N950 | why would you want android? heh | 19:25 |
| alex___ | no just to have some more applications | 19:26 |
| alex___ | did you see this video? | 19:26 |
| alex___ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_rDay9RJ8&feature=player_embedded | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that's ubuntu in a chroot | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 19:27 |
| Sicelo | alex___: Magic Butt? LD | 19:27 |
| wmarone | heh | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | can you see how much trouble he has using it? | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:27 |
| alex___ | of sure | 19:27 |
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| alex___ | but on a tablet............ | 19:27 |
| wmarone | yeah, any time I see "$std_nix on $android_device" it's almost always a chroot with X via VNC | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | still on a tablet | 19:27 |
| alex___ | that is an htc mobile | 19:27 |
| alex___ | on a tablet would be worth | 19:28 |
| alex___ | it is not that great hinderance | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | on 800x480 it can be | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:28 |
| alex___ | well you are right | 19:29 |
| alex___ | the res is not that great | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1030/jblive/ - interview with aaron seigo of spark | 19:29 |
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| Venemo_N950 | btw, I don't understand why they chose pa | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | spark -is- PA people | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | ahh | 19:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | that explains it | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | i would be doing a omap4 nemo tablet | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | I already | 19:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | I already am sorry for them | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | nah, i am happy to see that some people within big desktop linux environments notice we're in a paradigm chance | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | did you see my slides from FOSDEM? | 19:34 |
| alex___ | paradigm chance of what? | 19:35 |
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| Stskeeps | paradigm shift, that is | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | http://fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf | 19:35 |
| alex___ | you mean a shit into mobile devices? | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | nah, not only | 19:35 |
| alex___ | what do you mean exactly | 19:36 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, pa is unsuitable for touch use. if I were rude, i'd even say it's unsuitable for any use | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | view my slides and my talk when it shows up | 19:36 |
| alex___ | thx for the incredible slides | 19:36 |
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| alex___ | could you resume the ideas I'm very busy on keeping on my weather station, it has a breakdown........ | 19:37 |
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| alex___ | Cool slides | 19:39 |
| alex___ | I will use them for my paper | 19:39 |
| alex___ | cool description of the problems | 19:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | anyway, good evening everyone :) | 19:41 |
| alex___ | I see some of them I agee | 19:41 |
| alex___ | agree | 19:41 |
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| alex___ | mark means the same....and that is the reason he wants to keep on unity | 19:43 |
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| harbaum | btw: will your sb2 based sdk happily coexist with the sb1 based ones from nokia? | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't use binfmt_misc | 19:51 |
| harbaum | fine | 19:51 |
| alex___ | fine video | 19:54 |
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| alex___ | I go to sleep | 20:03 |
| alex___ | thx Stskeeps for all | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | nite | 20:03 |
| * Stskeeps shakes rpm | 20:04 | |
| Stskeeps | why you not expand macros | 20:04 |
| alex___ | I'd like to contribute but I have at the moment no time to invest | 20:04 |
| alex___ | macros? do you speak with me? | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | no, to rpm | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | even the smallest contribution helps | 20:04 |
| alex___ | sorry | 20:04 |
| alex___ | are you loacted in usa? | 20:05 |
| alex___ | located | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | nop, .pl | 20:05 |
| alex___ | poland? | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, originally from .dk though | 20:06 |
| alex___ | cool | 20:07 |
| alex___ | so I leave yet thx for all | 20:07 |
| alex___ | bye | 20:07 |
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| matrixx | nice episode that in linux action show | 20:14 |
| matrixx | need to view it again later, I missed the start | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | error: Could not resolve host: github.com; Cannot allocate memory while accessing https://github.com/openSUSE/obs-build.git/info/refs | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | time for me to go to sleep? | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:17 |
| dm8tbr | good morning | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | morn dm8tbr | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | what TZ are you in? | 20:19 |
| dm8tbr | UTC-8 | 20:20 |
| * dm8tbr just checked into the hotel in Redwood Shores for ABS/ELC | 20:20 | |
| dm8tbr | spent 2 nights downtown SF | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | sounds nice | 20:20 |
| dm8tbr | I was lucky I'm here with a coleague... it refused my creditcards | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | woops | 20:21 |
| dm8tbr | funny though I pulled 200bucks just minutes before out of the atm | 20:22 |
| dm8tbr | will need to call my bank or start pulling cash before I check out | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | some systems used to have issue with expiry of certain length at least | 20:25 |
| _av500_ | dm8tbr: TSA flagged your PMA-in-parts as dangerous? | 20:26 |
| dm8tbr | _av500_: I had lots of fun with this demonstration device I carried with me | 20:28 |
| dm8tbr | it comes in a big honking orange plastic box | 20:29 |
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| dm8tbr | basically at every possible or impossible security check I got pulled out 'randomly' | 20:29 |
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| lbt | mmm don't try and recursively enter SDK chroots... | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | merception? | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | (what happened?) | 20:43 |
| lbt | no, but after a while it says "who am I?" | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 20:44 |
| lbt | then something about chess.. | 20:44 |
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| lbt | nah ... just does weird things to the mount table | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | are you doing mount --bind ? | 20:44 |
| lbt | yes | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 20:44 |
| * Stskeeps ponders idly if he still has any of his openwrt rootfs'es laying about | 20:46 | |
| lbt | I use ldap in my local LAN | 20:47 |
| lbt | and I have some strange mounts - so if this works for me it should be OK in most situations | 20:48 |
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| Stskeeps | hello neo_ | 20:58 |
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| lbt | mmmm Mer doesn't have a "hostname" command | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | it does indeed not | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | i'm a little unsure where it's supposed to come from, actually | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | (i saw it earlier in a build log)) | 21:01 |
| lbt | hostname package... | 21:01 |
| lbt | rofl | 21:01 |
| w00t | int main(int,char**) { printf("localhost\n"); } | 21:02 |
| * w00t coughs | 21:02 | |
| lbt | w00t: a solution worthy of Nokia | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: sometimes i really like busybox's approach.. | 21:02 |
| w00t | lbt: i think they rubbed off a bit too much sometimes :-p | 21:03 |
| lbt | I can understand that Stskeeps | 21:03 |
| lbt | w00t: :) | 21:03 |
| w00t | i've actually warmed up to busybox too | 21:03 |
| lbt | w00t: we shall bring you back to the light | 21:03 |
| _av500_ | but its evil GPL code | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | what's a reasonable consumer wireless router these days? | 21:03 |
| lbt | _av500_: hehe | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | ie, has to be produced in 2011/2012 | 21:03 |
| lbt | hmmm | 21:04 |
| lbt | I asked the openwrt crowd that q a few months ago | 21:04 |
| lbt | I think I updated their wiki | 21:05 |
| lbt | or they did | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just pondering what typical NAND sizes are nowadays | 21:05 |
| lbt | oh, thought it was a serious buy :) | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, yes | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | i have a wl500gp that blew out | 21:05 |
| lbt | http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | ok, that was 8mb flash and 32mb ram | 21:06 |
| lbt | maybe just a teeny bit small | 21:06 |
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| lbt | hehe | 21:11 |
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| lbt | I'm mounting my home into the Mer SDK | 21:11 |
| lbt | and osc fails to run because it can't find the plugin from Maemo:Mer:Tools/bin/lspkg.py | 21:12 |
| lbt | ie the 2009 version of Mer:Tools :) | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 21:13 |
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| * lbt checks the bind mounts *very* carefully before wiping SDK ... | 21:18 | |
| lbt | we need something truly robust if we are doing this stuff | 21:18 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: dgnd3700 has 128 flash and 128 ram, but it is expensive. everything else has the usual 2/8 or 4/16 or 8/32 | 21:32 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: any pointers for a) mic docs/invocation and b) a mic .ks ? (or does it use old .ks files?) | 21:38 |
| lbt | nm ... looks sane | 21:42 |
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