Sunday, 2012-02-12

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Stskeepsmorn05:53
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Stskeepsalh: i occasionally wonder when my talks get accepted this exact thought: my god, did i really write that in my abstract?06:29
Stskeeps:P06:29
Stskeepsheh, well that's a funny place to find a merproject.org reference07:01
Stskeepshttp://www.copyright.gov/1201/2011/initial/sflc.pdf07:01
timophyeah07:11
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fosstuxHi! I've subscribed to mer-general a few days ago - now I'd like to unsubscribe because I've sold my n900. But when sending an email to mer-general+unsubscribe-digest@lists.merproject.org, I get a mail back, that I'm not subscribed to the list mer-general...07:31
fosstuxWhat am I doing wrong?07:31
Stskeepsfosstux: how did you subscribe?07:31
fosstuxby sending a mail to mer-general+subscribe-digest@lists.merproject.org07:32
fosstuxah.07:32
Stskeepsare you Christopher R. Parr by chance?07:32
fosstuxyes07:32
Stskeepswell, i saw a blank email from you to mer-general@ at least07:32
Stskeepsso that might have been the subscribe attempt?07:32
Stskeepson 8th february07:32
fosstuxoI think I know what's wrong: I'll send a mail to mer-general+unsubscribe@lists.merproject.org - so without -digest07:33
fosstuxno07:33
Stskeepsok07:33
Stskeepslet me know if it doesn't work07:34
fosstuxit worked. Thanks07:35
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Stskeepshuomenta jukka07:44
jukkaeklundhuomenta07:44
jukkaeklundseen this http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=569507:44
Stskeepsyes, but given how much trouble a similar approach caused on n900, i'm a bit wary of it07:45
Stskeepsand it requires open mode kernel likely07:45
Stskeepsif you have open mode, you might as well just try to kexec instead07:45
jukkaeklundkexec is disabled in N9 afaik07:46
Stskeepsmm, in closed mode maybe07:46
jukkaeklundopen mode kernel for harmattan?07:47
Stskeepsright, it does exist07:48
jukkaeklundI'm lost.. whats blocking marquiz's dualbooter from working in N9?07:50
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Stskeepswell, i think part of it is that it would normally install into the moslo partition which isn't really in use07:52
Stskeepsi guess you can make a combination if you install this into the root file system07:52
Stskeepsonce i'm 'free', i can look more into this personally07:53
jukkaeklundah right, moslo is disabled in N9..07:53
jukkaeklundI wonder does the warranty void thing show with that preinit hack07:54
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Stskeepsi would assume so07:54
Stskeepselse aegis will kill things07:55
jukkaeklundStskeeps, I think method to dual boot in N9 is long overdue..07:55
jukkaeklundmaybe marquiz could take a look as well?07:55
Stskeepsperhaps07:55
Stskeepsi'll put some time into it during next week, if nothing pre-empts it07:56
jukkaeklundty07:56
Stskeepsi've devised a way to do deepily embedded systems from scratch with the ease of using OBS and unmodified rpm packaging, so that idea warrants me to take a bit of time07:57
Stskeepscould blow several existing solutions out of the market07:57
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Stskeepscould change how people build mobile devices, too07:58
jukkaeklundsure :)07:59
jukkaeklundcant wait to see a demo on a piece of glass :p07:59
Stskeepshehe07:59
jukkaeklundwondering do I need to get a new "tablet"..08:00
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jukkaeklundnook, spark, archos..08:00
Stskeepsi'd say archos g9 has the most potential08:00
jukkaeklundyeah08:01
jukkaeklundand OMAP408:01
jukkaeklundfor 279e :o08:01
Stskeepsas well as http://www.archos.com/products/gen9/archos_g9_3g_stick/index.html?country=ni&lang=en08:01
jukkaeklundindeed08:01
jukkaeklundthough how well thats going to work with mer etc?08:02
Stskeepsi actually don't know what modem that one is.. let me look08:03
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Stskeepsit's compatible with normal pc/mac so i assume ofono would be able to handle it08:03
jukkaeklundtheir model naming is getting out of hand..08:06
jukkaeklundalso "turbo" is OMAP4460, but what does this mean: 'from 1.2GHz to 1.5GHz (at start of 2012)'08:06
jukkaeklundI'll get it anyway, lets see if somebody wants to pay the bill..08:07
_av500_jukkaeklund: 1.5ghz units have been phased in now08:08
_av500_all production is 1.5 now08:08
jukkaeklundok, thanks08:09
jukkaeklundhow do I make sure its 1.5 and not old stock if I get one?08:09
Stskeeps_av500_: happen to know what modem chipset sits in the 3g stick?08:09
_av500_i can find out08:10
_av500_could be as simple as some qualcomm08:10
jukkaeklundeg I'm looking at this page which says 1.2-1.5 http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=16996&setcurrency=eur08:10
Stskeeps_av500_: that'd be great08:10
_av500_jukkaeklund: I am not saying our marketing did a great job with the 1.2 vs 1.5 confusion08:10
jukkaeklund:) really cool if you could check it08:11
jukkaeklundso it's a different variant of OMAP4460?08:12
_av500_the 1.2 is 443008:12
_av500_afaik08:12
jukkaeklundhmm08:12
* _av500_ is confused too08:12
jukkaeklund:)08:13
jukkaeklundso is it that simple, Turbo is 4460 and older one 4430?08:13
_av500_older turbo is 4420@1.208:14
_av500_443008:14
jukkaeklund:/08:14
jukkaeklundso I'd want the new Turbo08:14
_av500_yes08:15
_av500_as i said all the new stuff is 446008:15
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jukkaeklundsure, but some retailer might have the old one which they try to get rid of08:18
jukkaeklundis there a model number etc to check?08:19
* jukkaeklund looking at http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=57216&p=37370508:22
timophhuh. forum.meego still exists?08:23
* timoph looks08:23
jukkaeklundtimoph, why it wouldn't?08:23
timophdunno. maybe it's just my ignorance08:24
timophpretty much washed my hand from meego.com activities some months ago08:24
jukkaeklundsure, but you're looking at it a bit strict..08:25
timophyep08:25
jukkaeklundeg. whats in a name..08:25
timophI know08:26
jukkaeklundso this is the best deal I could find now: http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mainproduct.php?pid=1699608:29
* timoph is tempted08:30
jukkaeklundsorry :)08:31
timophabout what?08:31
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timophteasing me with gadgets? don't be ;)08:31
jukkaeklundheh08:33
jukkaeklundthere is also a 8" model with same HW08:33
timophat least I prefer the smaller one08:33
timoph10' is too big for me08:33
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timophwhat would be interesting IMO would be a device with eink display that can boot custom stuff08:35
jukkaeklundyep08:36
Termanamorning08:36
Stskeepstimoph: there is such devices.. hang on08:36
* timoph hangs on08:36
jukkaeklundkindle not?08:37
Stskeepshttp://openinkpot.org/wiki/Hardware08:37
timoph:D08:39
timoph'Work in progress (usually it means "Nothing works yet")'08:39
Stskeepswell at least they're up front ;)08:41
timophseems that the supported devices are mostly older versions08:46
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boari installed openinkpot on my Hanlin v308:55
boarwas way slower than the factory OS08:55
boarbut it did work08:55
boarforget xactly how much slower, but it had PDF refloew, better fonts, all sorts of nice stuff not on factory OS08:56
boaralso that hanlin v3 was a 200 mhz MIPS, not exactly performant08:57
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Stskeepsmorn phaeron09:02
phaeronStskeeps: morning09:02
Stskeepsphaeron: i've updated Merproject/ with sb2 patches, your transparent prjlinks and brought it to sync with upstream09:02
phaeroncool09:03
Stskeepstrial packaging runs more than welcome09:03
phaeronin a second :)09:03
Stskeepsno problem, just letting you know :)09:04
Sage_hello all09:06
Stskeepsmorn sage09:06
StskeepsSage_: did you see my black magic build?09:08
Sage_Stskeeps: so what is the status of 0.20120209.x should it be moved to 0.20120216.x ?09:08
Sage_Stskeeps: black magic build?09:08
Stskeepssec09:08
StskeepsSage_: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/fun.txt09:09
Stskeepstop and bottom09:09
StskeepsSage_: i think 16 is more realistic atm as we are finally making OBS packages for the sb2-obs etc stuff09:09
Stskeepscontent wise, 0.0.3 is pretty much a prerelease09:09
Sage_Stskeeps: echo $PATH?09:10
Sage_binaries do not need to locate in those usual dirs09:11
StskeepsSage_: long story short, the target is void of actual tools, everything is being done by the x86 side tools09:11
StskeepsSage_: transparently09:11
Stskeeps(no $PATH obscure stuff involved)09:11
Stskeepsthere's even no 'bash' in the target chroot09:11
Sage_ok, so no "tricks" :)09:11
Stskeepswell, sb2 is a giant trick09:11
Stskeepsbut this means you can do very small stacks, with the ease of OBS and spec files09:11
Sage_well you can put it like that as well :)09:11
Stskeepsimagine bootstrapping cross compiler, uclibc, add busybox package on top, perhaps qt, in a nice small OBS project09:13
Stskeepsjust like we put together stacks atm09:13
Sage_what is the way to get to the x86 side? I though that it goes with binaries that link on that side or something.09:13
Stskeepshmm? well, right now this is just a proof of concept, it piggypacks on a mer platform sdk09:14
Stskeepspiggybacks, that is09:14
Sage_Let me ask this say in the very beginning there is e.g. gzip cmd called that is not located in the env. Where does that call actually go then?09:14
Stskeepsthat gets caught by the exec() handler in sb2 and redirected to be using the x86/tools side gzip inside09:15
Stskeepsinstead09:15
phaeronStskeeps: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=Mer:OBS:Testing:Devel  built fine09:16
Sage_ah, ok so like every cmd that is executed is caught by sb2 if it is not in the env itself09:16
Stskeepsright, it's caught always09:16
Stskeepsbasically sb2 can change the perception of file system for a process and execution strategies09:16
Stskeepsphaeron: ok, so we should try this out on cfe/cbe today i guess09:17
Stskeeps(the 'new' cobs)09:17
_av500_Stskeeps: TCL chipset not QC09:18
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StskeepsTCL being acronym for..?09:19
_av500_for the company called TCL09:20
Stskeepssuch fantastic choices of names to google for..09:20
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Sage_Stskeeps: btw, the kmod package update is required for the systemd and udev updates. Thus those fail atm.09:40
Stskeepsok09:41
Stskeepsadd a comment to those two so i can see when to re-evaluate them?09:41
Sage_done09:43
Stskeepsta09:43
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matrixxStskeeps: if you're putting the slides up to fosdem page, here's mine: http://www.slideshare.net/setelani/towards-accelerated-uis-with-power-of-qt5-project-cinnamon10:05
jukkaeklundstskeeps, here ours http://www.slideshare.net/jukkaeklund/fosdem2012-community-apps-repository/10:08
Stskeepsta, grabbing10:10
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jukkaeklundtimoph, ordered :)10:30
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Stskeepshttp://www.engadget.com/2012/02/12/spark-pre-orders-delayed-but-heres-a-video-instead-video/10:34
StskeepsMer on engadget10:34
timophjukkaeklund: bring it to the hack day if you get it before that10:36
jukkaeklundtimoph, sure it says 1-2 days10:37
jukkaeklundhackday for me still open.. family might have other plans10:37
jukkaeklundstskeeps, you sure its running the mer-based image and not meego..10:37
* Stskeeps glances over at vgrade 10:37
timoph:)10:38
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Stskeepsjukkaeklund: i at least hope so, or i have to beat up vgrade for choosing a bad title10:38
Stskeeps:P10:38
jukkaeklund:)10:39
jukkaeklundpublicity is good, but comments not so good10:40
Stskeeps:nod:10:40
jukkaeklundis there a nemo image already?10:40
Stskeepsit doesn't have working x1110:40
Stskeepswell10:40
Stskeepsworking gles for x1110:40
jukkaeklundhow does plasma work?10:41
Stskeepsit's software rendering in that video10:41
Stskeepsie, qt's raster engine10:41
Stskeepsso it can be a lot nicer10:41
jukkaeklundah well, would be good to mention there10:42
jukkaeklundfor raster based thats impressive10:42
Stskeepsyes10:42
* Sage_ stares at pkg-config upstream version10:43
Sage_pkg-config latest upstream requires pkg-config o_010:43
Stskeepsyeah, hrmm10:44
Stskeeps:P10:44
Sage_it requires glib2 now apparently and well that bring deps :/10:44
Stskeepshttps://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4559910:45
Stskeepshttps://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4559910:45
Stskeepser10:45
Stskeepshttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/pkg-config/2011-May/000758.html10:46
timophis there a ready made PA Mer image floating around somewhere (x86 for exo)?10:46
Stskeepsi really wish that some open source people had a sense about circular dependencies in code10:46
Stskeepscmake deps on xmlrpc-c which deps on cmake, as an example10:46
timoph:)10:46
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AardStskeeps: really annpying when introduced in thing under your control (as happened in harmattan) which bites you when you need to bootstrap again...10:50
Stskeeps:nod:10:50
* timoph found it10:50
timophhttp://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/mer_x86_usb_live_and_install_archive/10:50
timophin case someone else is lazy as well ^10:50
* Stskeeps heads out10:58
lbtmorning all10:59
Stskeepslbt: see my messages to phaeron earlier this morning about Merproject/11:03
Stskeepsi have to go out for >4 hours now11:04
lbtwill look11:06
lbtl8r .... have a good one11:06
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_av500_Stskeeps: search for X200 alcatel11:26
_av500_u need recent usb modeswitch11:26
Stskeepsok, manageable11:27
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Venemo_N950hi guys11:30
lbto/ Venemo_N95011:40
jukkaeklundtimoph, let us know how it goes with PA & exo. Had a try earlier and it wasn't good..11:41
lbttimoph: before I dive back in - did you have any changes to the sdk ks/yaml stuff that I need to merge?11:43
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timophlbt: not yet11:48
lbtnp11:48
* timoph looking for possible summer holiday travel destinations11:50
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lbthey paulsherwood12:49
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paulsherwoodhey lbt, how's it going?13:23
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lbtpaulsherwood: working on the platform SDK this weekend - sorry to have missed you at FOSDEM (again!)13:39
lbtthings are doing rather nicely though - Stskeeps has been pushing our sb2 forward and it's looking quite special13:41
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Venemo_N950I've sticked a Mer sticker on my Ideapad :)14:05
lbtI'm not allowed to yet ...14:09
lbtI really must install mer on there14:09
jukkaeklundsame here.. waiting I can run Mer as VM :)14:11
Venemo_N950I haven't installed Mer on it yet (still running that archaic MeeGo netbook build), but I like the sticker :)14:12
lbtjukkaeklund: well, the SDK work should make that more feasible14:12
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lbtjukkaeklund: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=00sdk.yaml&package=sdk-kickstarter-configs&project=home%3Albt%3Abranches%3AMer%3ATools%3ATesting&srcmd5=d0c7359c2d73762f8c72901fe551bbfa line 6914:13
jukkaeklundyep14:16
paulsherwoodlbt: yes, me too - i was only there for saturday, sadly. saw Stskeeps talk14:19
lbt*nod*14:20
lbtthe mobile dev room got a lot of attention which was nice14:20
paulsherwoodseems like a lot is happening ;)14:20
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lbtfor sure14:22
lbta fair few Tizen folk there too14:23
lbtlow key though14:23
paulsherwoodrasterman presentation was pretty well attended14:25
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lbtyeah - not sure I learned anything though14:25
paulsherwoodabout efl, or tizen?14:26
lbteither.... and the usage examples didn't make me go "wow. productivity nirvana!"14:26
lbtie there was nothing new14:26
paulsherwoodaren't we too old to expect "productivity nirvana"?14:26
paulsherwood:)14:26
lbt*g*14:26
lbtI take it you're not using Mer then?14:27
paulsherwoodnot yet... we're still wrestling with the innards14:27
lbtseriously though .... the contrast to the Qt presentations was stark14:27
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paulsherwoods/innards/low level stuff/14:28
lbtfor baserock?14:28
paulsherwoodyes14:28
lbtCarsten said that was moving along14:29
paulsherwoodyes it is14:29
lbtI lurk a bit but haven't caught up in a while tbh14:30
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paulsherwoodnot much to see yet :)14:30
lbtusual focus issues14:30
lbtI think we're close to the "coming together" point14:30
paulsherwoodcool14:31
lbt2 or 3 big areas to refine but we know what they are14:31
lbtSDK, VC and SB214:31
lbtand we have solutions and designs so it's now grind14:31
paulsherwoodwhat do those stand for?14:31
* paulsherwood assumes SDK is your developer kit14:32
lbtyes, platform SDK is essentially the non-Qt dev stuff14:32
lbtimages, and builds14:32
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lbtVC is just how we handle versioning and packaging - OBS isn't great at it and our initial hack needs improvement14:32
lbtSB2 is the new scratchbox2 cross-compile methodology14:33
paulsherwooddid you see liw's talk on the problems with packaging?14:33
lbtno but that got videoed iirc14:33
lbtwas it good?14:34
paulsherwoodhe's blogged most of the text... faster to digest that way http://liw.fi/rethinking-distro-dev/14:34
lbtta14:34
paulsherwoodi'm sure it touches on problems you're already aware of14:35
lbtwe did have a discussion on this and the concept came up of much bigger things that look a little like statically linked blobs14:36
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lbtStskeeps: when you're back.... what's @BUILD_ID@ in kickstarter? I did @ARCH@ and @RELEASE@ in http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Kickstarter#Repository_setup15:35
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Stskeepslbt: a system i'm not very fond of16:29
Stskeepslbt: @BUILD_ID@ is utilized in mic2 with --release=BUILD_ID16:29
Stskeepsit does not support the whole core-ui-hw adaptation splitup very well16:29
lbtOK16:31
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Stskeepsit's totally up to you how you want to deal with that, your area16:32
Stskeeps:P16:32
lbtcool16:33
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Stskeepsit cannot include ~'s or things representable only with %XX url encodings, nor unicode16:34
Stskeeps:P16:34
lbtwell, now I know what it is it turns out that IMG has a place to enter it16:35
lbtso we can look to get rid - but tbh I assume we'll redo this with mic ASAP16:35
lbtand I assume you know mic2 won't install in an SDK due to missing wget and rsync16:36
Stskeepsyes16:36
Stskeeps'mic', not 'mic2'16:36
Stskeepsdon't waste time on mic216:37
Stskeepsi am seriously considering to add wget and rsync to core, or prominently in tools16:37
Stskeepsthough curl -O works16:37
lbtI'd skip wget since curl is fine16:37
lbtrsync though - that makes sense16:37
lbtbut when needed16:38
Stskeeps:nod:16:38
Stskeepslbt: my core-toolchain split can build acl, attr, busybox, zlib so far without hitch16:38
Stskeeps(and libtool)16:38
lbt\o/16:38
Stskeepsso i think i'm really on to something cool16:38
Stskeepsdid i mention it's unmodified spec files?16:39
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lbtdoes that rely on spec not having a BR on somehing provided by sb2?16:40
Stskeepsno, i'll provide a toolchain-provides package that has Provides: name = version for each16:41
Stskeepsand it should resolve fine16:41
lbtok16:41
Stskeepsit also means there's no more endless rebuild loops in builds for ports16:43
Stskeepsas this happens in toolchain16:43
Stskeepswhich is x86 only16:43
lbtyeah - that makes sense16:43
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Stskeepsit does put some philosophical thoughts into how to develop, etc, sdk chroots, but ilet's see how it turns out16:49
Stskeepsit's kind of unexplored land16:49
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Stskeepslbt: so, how did the day go?17:47
lbtI has chroots17:49
lbtso can't be that bad17:49
Stskeepscool17:49
Stskeepscongrats :)17:49
lbtplaying with the host sharing too - making the mount a bit more robust17:50
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Stskeepsi'm trying to see if i can get my idea going in obs17:54
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Stskeepslbt: can we make it a priority to verify tomorrow that our 'new' cobs can run merproject obs packages and build arm packages?17:55
lbtyeah - need to do handover from phaeron17:55
lbthe's travelling tomorrow17:55
Stskeepsah, true17:55
lbtI have a while longer tonight on the SDK anyhow17:56
Stskeepsyes, that's fine17:56
lbtso I think OBS tomorrow will be OK17:56
Stskeepsbecause if that works, we can possibly deploy to first mer obs, then to real cobs17:56
Stskeepsso we can get newest release prerelease gong17:56
Stskeepsgoing17:56
lbt*nod*17:56
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Stskeepslbt: did you spot https://twitter.com/FOSSNewsChannel yet?18:04
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_av500_Stskeeps: nice18:12
Stskeepsthe oss community really needs a healthy dose of self reflection/self irony18:13
Stskeeps:P18:13
Bostikthat is brilliant18:17
lbthehe ... no, that's a new one for me18:17
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Stskeepsevening alien_18:27
alien_hello18:27
Stskeepshow are things?18:27
alien_I had a very lazy w/e18:28
alien_as usual18:28
Stskeepshehe, always good to have once in a while18:29
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Stskeepsi was travelling around for 11 days, so i was just happy to be back to hacking :P18:29
Stskeepswas there ever any response on the texture-from-pixmap bug report?18:30
alien_nope, and I broke my VM completely18:31
Stskeepsah, okay18:31
Stskeepsi plan on getting into llvmpipe again in ~5 days or so18:31
alien_I am afraid I need to redo it from scratch18:31
alien_but this is low priority now18:31
Stskeeps:nod:18:31
alien_I would like to focus my efforts on my set-top-box for a few weeks18:32
Stskeepsi know that feeling -- i'm getting so tired of my boxee setup being broke18:33
alien_and in the process see if we can get started a XBMC(or qtMediaHub) community around mer18:33
Stskeepsand i want to move away from that18:33
Stskeepsqtmediahub we have packaged and there's people trying to make real products with it18:33
Stskeepsxbmc also exists packaged18:33
alien_I know that Sage was working on this in the past18:34
Stskeepsqtmediahub even works nicely with qt raster engine18:34
Stskeepsie, no need for gles18:34
alien_well, this is for my AMD E350-based system18:36
alien_this is pretty powerful, but last time I checked the XBMC VA-API was pretty broken18:37
Stskeepsthat a SSSE3 able processor not?18:37
Stskeepsor not, that is18:37
alien_this was more than 6 months ago18:37
Stskeepsok, is ssse3 able, according to wikipedia18:37
alien_it is18:38
alien_does qtmediahub support VA-API?18:39
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Stskeepswell it will use qtmultimedia and gstreamer18:39
Stskeepsso if that suppors it..18:39
alien_will check18:42
Stskeepsgst-va used to exist at least18:45
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Crnkojhey vgrade are you here? we tried several kernel configs for booting the mer core image on the tegra2 phone, but always just reboots and no output to the screen, do you have any ideas ?18:48
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alex___hello18:51
alex___is someone here?18:51
Stskeepshello alex___ :)18:52
alex___hi18:52
Crnkojhello alex___ :D18:52
Stskeepsso what brings you here?18:52
alex___I wanted some info about mer18:52
Stskeepsgo ahead, ask some questions :)18:52
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alex___I have read that spark will provide this os18:52
alex___my question is:18:52
Stskeepsplasma active will be based on top of mer on top of spark, yeah18:53
alex___will I be able to install all the applications that actually run on linux?18:53
alex___I mean the hardware is arm18:53
Stskeepsit's a pretty bog standard linux system18:53
alex___I do not know if all apps are installable on arm18:53
Stskeepsit's up to the spark people how they want to do it though18:53
Venemo_N950alex___, you can install basically anything that can be compiled for ARM18:54
CrnkojStskeeps i had actually one question too, recently i got me the humble bundle for android and apart from the android versions they have linux versions for x86 and x86_64 aswell, now my question is do you think it would be possible to convince them to make a linux .rpm/.deb package of them compiled for arm aswell ?18:54
Stskeeps(and you'll take the effort to package and build...)18:54
StskeepsCrnkoj: i think it comes down to GLES support and providing them with easy tools18:54
Venemo_N950indeed18:54
alex___so I'll be able to install a debian arm too?18:55
Stskeepsi don't think they're locking it down, so i'd assume so18:55
alex___and switch to debian completely18:55
CrnkojStskeeps im not entirely sure what to think of your anwser ^ ^18:55
Stskeepsit's a computer, but do keep in mind it's a mobile device18:55
StskeepsCrnkoj: okay, so, if you give them an easy sdk tod o so, it's feasible18:55
Crnkojah ok18:55
Crnkoji meant more like18:56
StskeepsCrnkoj: that's the platform SDK work we're doing18:56
Crnkojcouldnt they just compile the sources they have for arm ?18:56
Crnkojlike i do for my pandaboard?18:56
Venemo_N950alex___, not sure why you'd want to do that, but I think you can18:56
StskeepsCrnkoj: there's always pitfalls like alignment and hardcoded assembly or other x86 assumptions18:56
Crnkojfor the apps/games ?18:56
Stskeepsut yes18:56
alex___I explain18:56
Crnkojut ?18:56
alex___I have a sheevaplug with debian installed18:56
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alex___I would like to use on the spark all the applications I use in debian18:57
StskeepsCrnkoj: "but"18:57
Stskeepsalex___: you may be able to, but you'd have to handle the hardware adaptation yourself18:57
CrnkojStskeepsim just thinking out loud, but wouldnt be quite beneficiary for mer/meego to get as many people as possible interested to do apps, maybe you guys could contact the humble guys if its possible and feasible for them to do it18:57
CrnkojStskeeps ill ask them myself aswell, but i think a group of devs for mer might have more influence on their decision18:58
StskeepsCrnkoj: yes, no doubt, but we're not trying to do an ecosystem here, vendors work together on that18:58
Stskeepswe don't even promise binary compatibility :)18:58
Crnkojaha ok18:58
Crnkojye i know vendors :)18:58
Crnkojits not all vendors though ;)18:58
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alex___what do you think about the spark?18:59
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Stskeepsalex___: a good direction, we're happy to see people use mer as a core18:59
Stskeepsfor their products18:59
alex___what is the relation between your dev group and the company that will sell the device?19:00
Venemo_N950I have my doubts about Plasma Active, but otherwise it's a good direction, yes19:00
Stskeepsalex___: mer produces a core, doesn't do touch hardware adaptations or ui's, our customers are vendors like spark and/or plasma active19:01
alex___ok19:01
Stskeepsalex___: plasma active is represented in the mer advisory board as to help influence direction19:01
alex___ok19:01
Stskeepsso, that's the relation19:01
alex___clear19:01
Stskeepswe enable them to not having to worry about the core systems work, they can focus on hardware (spark) and UI (plasma active)19:02
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, I'd like to ask something too. who's funding the Mer project?19:02
alex___what about to delete the core and install ubuntu with unity?19:02
Stskeepsalex___: well, you'd have to ask others about that :)19:02
StskeepsVenemo_N950: it's a co-operative, people who use it pitch in19:02
alex___is it feasable?19:03
Venemo_N950alex___, unity is unsuitable for touchscreen use19:03
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, ah, I see :)19:03
Stskeepsalex___: if you want to do another system on spark, spark would have to be unlocked (which it probably is by standard) and you'd have to handle all the stuff yourself19:03
alex___I do not know I neverr used it19:03
StskeepsVenemo_N950: first advisory board will have a short statement on who pays what19:03
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, I'm asking just out of curiosity :)19:04
StskeepsVenemo_N950: :nod:19:04
alex___I would like to use mer to run applications like the gimp or libreoffice or librecad...is it possible?19:04
StskeepsVenemo_N950: we've been able to push work into it because of the nemo work but that part ends soon from nokia side19:04
Stskeepsalex___: if you package it up, but do recall it's a capactive touchscreen19:04
Stskeeps(i think)19:04
Stskeepstablet is not desktop19:05
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, how soon? and what'll happen to Nemo then?19:05
StskeepsVenemo_N950: it goes on as long as there's contributors19:05
alex___package...do you mean compile myself or something more sophisticated?19:05
StskeepsVenemo_N950: we converted into a open source project long ago, i haven't really touched closed source side for ages19:05
Stskeepsalex___: compile/package in spec files19:05
Venemo_N950how optimistic are you about it? :)19:06
StskeepsVenemo_N950: i think there's something really good there and people should realize that19:06
Venemo_N950yeah, people should.19:06
alex___will someone precomplie those big applications for mer?19:06
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Venemo_N950alex___, which ones?19:06
Stskeepsalex___: well, people within the mer community, maybe, but the project itself only concerns itself with making a good core and tools surrounding it19:07
alex___the gimp, libreoffice19:07
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Venemo_N950alex___, those things are outside the scope of Mer.19:07
Stskeepsalex___: you can probably use debian in a chroot if you so desire19:07
alex___I think the biggest problem is the porting to arm. For that you should have a great amount of time and resources19:08
Stskeepsyou would actually think o19:08
Stskeepsso19:08
Stskeepsthese days it's really not that bad19:08
Stskeepslibreoffice is an exceptin19:08
Stskeepsmy keyboard sucks.19:08
alex___yup19:08
Venemo_N950alex___, actually, the biggest problem is that all the apps you mentioned aren't designed for touchscreen use.19:09
alex___I was aware that ubuntu wanted to port all the software to arm19:09
Stskeepswe're very intentionally not trying to contain the kitchen sink :)19:09
alex___already in 9.1019:09
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Venemo_N950alex___, also, Mer intends to produce a stable core. not concerned with UI or apps. at least if I understood correctly :)19:10
alex___mer is a great proj19:10
alex___I see19:10
Stskeepswhat you can do with spark, well, it's a open device and a computer, you can probably do everything with it :)19:10
alex___the only problem is: without apps what could you do?19:11
Venemo_N950about apps support, you'd better ask the PA folks at #active19:11
alex___Pa?19:11
Stskeepsalex___: hehe, a lot :) let me show a video19:11
alex___how do I go into that chat?19:11
Stskeeps /join #active19:11
Venemo_N950Plasma Active is the user interface on the Spark19:11
alex___I see19:12
alex___thax for the info19:12
Stskeepsalex___: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShRnOazNu9Q&list=UUt3jrWgutwPvS79NfGs9MQQ&index=4&feature=plcp is a handset user interface on top of Mer + apps19:12
Venemo_N950:)19:12
alex___I join the other chat19:12
alex___wait19:12
Stskeepswe have UI toolkits like Qt, or HTML5 with webkit19:12
alex___I watch the video first19:12
Stskeeps(that's not the UI on spark, just for good measure)19:13
Stskeepsjust a different use of mer19:13
Venemo_N950indeed19:14
alex___ok19:15
alex___watched19:15
alex___I go19:16
alex___good night19:16
Stskeepsyou can be in both :)19:16
Stskeepsbut okay19:16
alex___ok I remain19:16
alex___hehe19:16
Venemo_N950:)19:16
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alex___in active board is actually nobody active...19:18
alex___is has been desactivated19:18
Stskeepsthere's a mailing list19:18
alex___I see but I'll try tommorrow19:19
alex___in you r opinion would be possible to run android on mer?19:19
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Stskeepsmore difficult, android has it's own libc and such19:20
alex___I have seen somewhere it is already possible19:21
wmaronesure, I believe a handful of proprietary products make it possible (though to what degree I am not sure)19:24
Venemo_N950why would you want android? heh19:25
alex___no just to have some more applications19:26
alex___did you see this video?19:26
alex___http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE_rDay9RJ8&feature=player_embedded19:26
Stskeepsyeah, that's ubuntu in a chroot19:27
Stskeepsprobably19:27
Siceloalex___: Magic Butt? LD19:27
wmaroneheh19:27
Stskeepscan you see how much trouble he has using it?19:27
Stskeeps:P19:27
alex___of sure19:27
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alex___but on a tablet............19:27
wmaroneyeah, any time I see "$std_nix on $android_device" it's almost always a chroot with X via VNC19:27
Stskeepsstill on a tablet19:27
alex___that is an htc mobile19:27
alex___on a tablet would be worth19:28
alex___it is not that great hinderance19:28
Stskeepson 800x480 it can be19:28
Stskeeps:P19:28
alex___well you are right19:29
alex___the res is not that great19:29
Stskeepshttp://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1030/jblive/ - interview with aaron seigo of spark19:29
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Venemo_N950btw, I don't understand why they chose pa19:32
Stskeepsspark -is- PA people19:33
Stskeeps:P19:33
Venemo_N950ahh19:33
Venemo_N950that explains it19:33
Stskeepsi would be doing a omap4 nemo tablet19:33
Stskeeps:P19:33
Venemo_N950I already19:33
Venemo_N950I already am sorry for them19:33
Stskeepsnah, i am happy to see that some people within big desktop linux environments notice we're in a paradigm chance19:34
Stskeepsdid you see my slides from FOSDEM?19:34
alex___paradigm chance of what?19:35
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Stskeepsparadigm shift, that is19:35
Stskeepssec19:35
Stskeepshttp://fosdem.org/2012/schedule/event/391/79_beyond.pdf19:35
alex___you mean a shit into mobile devices?19:35
Stskeepsnah, not only19:35
alex___what do you mean exactly19:36
Venemo_N950well, pa is unsuitable for touch use. if I were rude, i'd even say it's unsuitable for any use19:36
Stskeepsview my slides and my talk when it shows up19:36
alex___thx for the incredible slides19:36
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alex___could you resume the ideas I'm very busy on keeping on my weather station, it has a breakdown........19:37
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alex___Cool slides19:39
alex___I will use them for my paper19:39
alex___cool description of the problems19:41
Venemo_N950anyway, good evening everyone :)19:41
alex___I see some of them I agee19:41
alex___agree19:41
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alex___mark means the same....and that is the reason he wants to keep on unity19:43
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harbaumbtw: will your sb2 based sdk happily coexist with the sb1 based ones from nokia?19:51
Stskeepsyes19:51
Stskeepsit doesn't use binfmt_misc19:51
harbaumfine19:51
alex___fine video19:54
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alex___I go to sleep20:03
alex___thx Stskeeps for all20:03
Stskeepsnite20:03
* Stskeeps shakes rpm20:04
Stskeepswhy you not expand macros20:04
alex___I'd like to contribute but I have at the moment no time to invest20:04
alex___macros? do you speak with me?20:04
Stskeepsno, to rpm20:04
Stskeepseven the smallest contribution helps20:04
alex___sorry20:04
alex___are you loacted in usa?20:05
alex___located20:05
Stskeepsnop, .pl20:05
alex___poland?20:06
Stskeepsyeah, originally from .dk though20:06
alex___cool20:07
alex___so I leave yet thx for all20:07
alex___bye20:07
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matrixxnice episode that in linux action show20:14
matrixxneed to view it again later, I missed the start20:14
Stskeepserror: Could not resolve host: github.com; Cannot allocate memory while accessing https://github.com/openSUSE/obs-build.git/info/refs20:17
Stskeepstime for me to go to sleep?20:17
Stskeeps:P20:17
dm8tbrgood morning20:18
Stskeepsmorn dm8tbr20:19
Stskeepswhat TZ are you in?20:19
dm8tbrUTC-820:20
* dm8tbr just checked into the hotel in Redwood Shores for ABS/ELC20:20
dm8tbrspent 2 nights downtown SF20:20
Stskeeps:nod:20:20
Stskeepssounds nice20:20
dm8tbrI was lucky I'm here with a coleague... it refused my creditcards20:21
Stskeepswoops20:21
dm8tbrfunny though I pulled 200bucks just minutes before out of the atm20:22
dm8tbrwill need to call my bank or start pulling cash before I check out20:22
Stskeepssome systems used to have issue with expiry of certain length at least20:25
_av500_dm8tbr: TSA flagged your PMA-in-parts as dangerous?20:26
dm8tbr_av500_: I had lots of fun with this demonstration device I carried with me20:28
dm8tbrit comes in a big honking orange plastic box20:29
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dm8tbrbasically at every possible or impossible security check I got pulled out 'randomly'20:29
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lbtmmm don't try and recursively enter SDK chroots...20:43
Stskeepsmerception?20:43
Stskeeps(what happened?)20:43
lbtno, but after a while it says "who am I?"20:43
Stskeepsheh20:44
lbtthen something about chess..20:44
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lbtnah ... just does weird things to the mount table20:44
Stskeepsare you doing mount --bind ?20:44
lbtyes20:44
Stskeepsok20:44
* Stskeeps ponders idly if he still has any of his openwrt rootfs'es laying about20:46
lbtI use ldap in my local LAN20:47
lbtand I have some strange mounts - so if this works for me it should be OK in most situations20:48
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Stskeepshello neo_20:58
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lbtmmmm Mer doesn't have a "hostname" command21:00
Stskeepsit does indeed not21:01
Stskeepsi'm a little unsure where it's supposed to come from, actually21:01
Stskeeps(i saw it earlier in a build log))21:01
lbthostname package...21:01
lbtrofl21:01
w00tint main(int,char**) { printf("localhost\n"); }21:02
* w00t coughs21:02
lbtw00t: a solution worthy of Nokia21:02
Stskeepslbt: sometimes i really like busybox's approach..21:02
w00tlbt: i think they rubbed off a bit too much sometimes :-p21:03
lbtI can understand that Stskeeps21:03
lbtw00t: :)21:03
w00ti've actually warmed up to busybox too21:03
lbtw00t: we shall bring you back to the light21:03
_av500_but its evil GPL code21:03
Stskeepswhat's a reasonable consumer wireless router these days?21:03
lbt_av500_: hehe21:03
Stskeepsie, has to be produced in 2011/201221:03
lbthmmm21:04
lbtI asked the openwrt crowd that q a few months ago21:04
lbtI think I updated their wiki21:05
lbtor they did21:05
Stskeepsi'm just pondering what typical NAND sizes are nowadays21:05
lbtoh, thought it was a serious buy :)21:05
Stskeepswell, yes21:05
Stskeepsi have a wl500gp that blew out21:05
lbthttp://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start21:06
Stskeepsok, that was 8mb flash and 32mb ram21:06
lbtmaybe just a teeny bit small21:06
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lbthehe21:11
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lbtI'm mounting my home into the Mer SDK21:11
lbtand osc fails to run because it can't find the plugin from Maemo:Mer:Tools/bin/lspkg.py21:12
lbtie the 2009 version of Mer:Tools :)21:12
Stskeepshehe21:13
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* lbt checks the bind mounts *very* carefully before wiping SDK ...21:18
lbtwe need something truly robust if we are doing this stuff21:18
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ali1234Stskeeps: dgnd3700 has 128 flash and 128 ram, but it is expensive. everything else has the usual 2/8 or 4/16 or 8/3221:32
lbtStskeeps: any pointers for a) mic docs/invocation and b) a mic .ks ?  (or does it use old .ks files?)21:38
lbtnm ... looks sane21:42
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