Wednesday, 2012-02-08

Khaledso right now the only known devices running mer based devices are cordia and spark?00:01
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vgraden900, n950, advent vega, povi tablet, pandaboard, beagleboard, raspberry pi, tranformer, ideapad, dell XT are all running various UI's on top of mer00:05
vgradeoh, and N900:05
vgradeand Exopc00:06
vgradehttp://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace00:06
vgradeand trimslice00:07
smokuvgrade: how redistributable are Tegra2 drivers?00:07
smokutrimslice only?00:08
Khaledn9??00:12
Khaledit is not meego even00:13
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vgradeI never got any license information with the hardfp drivers but the softfp ones with the l4tegra are redistributable00:16
smokuvgrade: you mean http://developer.nvidia.com/linux-tegra ?00:17
vgradeyes00:17
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vgradeKhaled, we have nemo running on Mer on N900:18
smokuok.  I can just stick with armv7l Mer00:18
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Khaledvgrade: can u give me any info on nemomobile like irc or how to contribute?00:19
vgradesmoku, there was a release just before xmas but I've not had chance to look at that00:19
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KhaledI only saw plasmaactive and I dislike kde in general so want to know about nemo mobile00:19
smokuKhaled: there is Nemo dedicated channel #nemomobile00:19
vgradesmoku, not sure if they released bith hard and softfp but as you say its does not matter now with Mer00:19
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vgradeKhaled, also http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Nemo#Nemo_Mobile00:20
smokuvgrade: is the performance difference noticable?00:20
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vgradecxl000, did some benchmarks but I forget the results. linaro also did some extensive tests which showed a moxed bag of results00:21
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smokuso, nothing really worth killing for? ;-)00:22
vgradesmoku, don't think so but I would still like to see a back to back comparison of a UX in action00:26
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Khaledvgrade: so if lipstick is not part of mer what is mer's official ui builder?00:46
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wmarone_Khaled: you can use qt creator, seeing as how Mer focuses on Qt00:49
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james_shanhello everybody00:54
vgradehi james_shan00:54
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james_shanI want to ask Mer, OS Download00:56
vgradejames_shan, ?00:57
james_shanI do not speak English00:58
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james_shanI say may not be standard Google web translation00:59
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james_shanThere is no Mer time be loaded with address01:01
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cxl000vgrade softfp/hardfp performance testing went to the back of the queue when I hit the egl context problem on the trimslice01:50
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vgradecxl000, did you try the November SDK?01:54
cxl000Not yet. I have slowly been working through compile failures for the 2.01 kernel01:56
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Khaledis there a blog for updates on mer?02:36
Khaledlike the status of the sdk?02:36
befordmail list is the best thing I believe02:57
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wmarone_heh04:05
wmarone_that nookboot image is using a 2.6.29 kernel04:05
wmarone_which is based on the first nook color kernel04:05
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wmarone_well that explains why I couldn't find any info on the wifi04:13
wmarone_with 2.6.29 it was built completely outside the kernel, and they put the .ko up in @#$%$#@%4 /etc/wifi04:13
wmarone_next to the firmware04:14
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Stskeepsmorn05:43
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_av500_wmarone_: yes, it used to be outside of the kernel05:49
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wmarone__av500_: but with 2.6.32 it's sorta in/sorta out05:49
wmarone_still not clear on what they're doing05:50
wmarone_but I'm heading to bed in a few mins, nothing more to do now05:50
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dm8tbrit's TI stuff, they probably don't know themselves...06:01
Stskeepshttp://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-renesaselectronics-idUSTRE8161VN2012020706:02
Stskeeps(thanks to Alison_Chaiken)06:03
dm8tbrhmmm interesting06:03
dm8tbrnext STE will fold...06:04
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Alison_ChaikenStskeeps, think those companies are in trouble?06:06
Alison_ChaikenSeems like Panasonic and Fujitsu weren't that important players anyway.06:07
Alison_ChaikenSTE was already, what, Thomson and Siemens together?06:07
StskeepsSTE = ST-Ericsson, not sure what the ST stands for :)06:08
StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: well, they could become stronger, renesas has an entire mobile modem business too, think qualcomm mobile board competitor :P06:08
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Alison_ChaikenI remember Thomson CSF got folded in.06:09
Alison_ChaikenYeah, Renesas seems pretty strong.    QNX is the one whose future I wonder about.06:09
Stskeepssaw that BB10 is practically a Qt OS?06:09
Alison_ChaikenQNX has big market share in automotive I've been working on, but consider the Symbian parallel.06:09
Stskeepsblackberry, that is06:09
Alison_ChaikenQNX is a weird griffalo: part NetBSD, part Linux, part Dr. Seuss.06:10
Stskeepshehe, it's a microkernel and a bit weird at that :)06:10
Alison_ChaikenSeems like they're emphasizing HTML5 too.06:10
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAKu0aVBHgQ <- QML based, though with a scenegraph like renderer in the backend + improvements06:11
Alison_ChaikenHeard from a guy at Lab126 who would know that cache coherency handling is much easier if each core runs its own kernel.06:11
Stskeepsi'm kind of curious to see how linux will deal with big.little ARM setup06:12
Alison_ChaikenChromeless tiles in that vid look like WinPho to me!06:13
Alison_Chaiken10 PM here.    Time for me to head back to the barn.06:13
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StskeepsSage: what was the status of http://review.merproject.org/#change,360 ?06:42
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Sagesr06:44
SageStskeeps: it needs systemd newer than we have06:45
Stskeepsaok06:45
Sageand the newer systemd slows down the boot a lot06:45
* Stskeeps adds as comment06:45
* Sage though he did06:46
Stskeepsah06:46
Stskeepsi'm just blind06:46
Sageapparently not06:46
Stskeepsi have mer arm building with autoconf/automake acceleration now btw06:46
Sagenice06:47
Stskeepsso autoconf no longer takes 600% more time ;)06:47
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Cenobyte_anybody here?07:00
Stskeepsyup, good morning07:03
Stskeepsso what brings you here?07:04
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StskeepsSage: any of the currently failing changes i should make a priority to merge?07:04
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Stskeepsgood morning sonach07:08
sonachStskeeps: good morning:)07:09
StskeepsSage: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114 -> make it 40 instead?07:10
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Cenobyte_Oh hello07:11
Cenobyte_I am here to find out more about Mer07:12
Cenobyte_hopefully...07:12
Stskeepshehe, well you came to the right place then - got any specific questions?07:12
Cenobyte_First of all, is there a working Mer for the Nokia n800?07:13
sonachStskeeps: Can NFS work on Mer?07:14
sonachStskeeps: After ifconfig successfully, when "mount -o nolock 192.168.188.16:/home/zhanghui/nfs /mnt", it fails,07:14
Stskeepssonach: it should, but i don't think we include the tools for it out of box07:15
Stskeepsie, no portmap and so on07:15
Stskeepshttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Method_2:_NFS-Root_with_custom_kernel is one way to do it from kernel side07:15
Stskeeps(use that as inspiration)07:16
sonachStskeeps: ah,yes,portmap...  OK, I will check the link,07:16
StskeepsCenobyte_: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/N8x007:16
StskeepsCenobyte_: we have a ARMv6+VFP port07:16
igheaand you are saying it's usable now?07:18
Stskeepsfor varying degrees of usable07:18
Stskeepssee the page07:18
Stskeepsand videos07:18
Cenobyte_That's cooiol07:22
Cenobyte_*cool07:22
Cenobyte_My next question is does Wifi work?07:23
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Cenobyte_and is it as good as Maemo?07:24
Stskeepsmer's more like a core, so people put a UI on top and a hardware adaptation07:24
Stskeepsmaemo is a productized system, bit hard to compare :)07:25
Stskeepstry it out instead and make up your own opinion07:25
Cenobyte_sounds fair07:25
Cenobyte_can it work with IceWM?07:25
Stskeepsif you put it on top, i guess07:25
Cenobyte_what is common to put on top?07:26
sonachStskeeps: The link you gave seems to mount mer-rootfs in vendor's rootfs. My question is, In Mer, by way of NFS to access files on PC,07:26
Stskeepssonach: ah, no, the link i'm having boots entire file system over nfs07:26
Stskeepssonach: by using kernel command line07:27
Cenobyte_so does wirless networking work?07:28
sonachStskeeps: So, what packages should be added in order for Mer to support NFS?07:28
StskeepsCenobyte_: the page should say07:28
Stskeepssonach: i'm looking at that now07:28
sonachStskeeps:  I just have added net-tools, you talked of portmap, any other utilities?07:29
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SageStskeeps: usbutils07:31
Cenobyte_What i suspect is that one needs non-free software to get the wifi to work, is that so?07:32
StskeepsCenobyte_: you need firmware yes07:32
Stskeepsbut not closed kernel module i think07:32
Cenobyte_Supposedly Mer is all open source07:32
Cenobyte_so it's open  source firmware?07:32
SageStskeeps: itsjould apply fine after the small udev patch you already merhed07:32
StskeepsCenobyte_: OK, so, Mer is all open source, hardware adaptations and UIs are strictly outside the project07:32
StskeepsCenobyte_: so hardware adaptations may contain closed bits07:33
Stskeepsor require them07:33
Cenobyte_ok so you would not know where to get those pieces?07:33
StskeepsCenobyte_: the page would list those, or they're in the n8x0's file system07:33
Cenobyte_how would you say mer compares to Debian?07:35
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Stskeepssonach: i'll first have time to look at this later today, but nfs-utils, krb5, libnfsidmap, libtirpc, quota, rpcbind07:36
SageStskeeps: i will try the systemd 40 soon but will not make to thos release07:36
StskeepsSage: ok07:36
Stskeepssonach: it sounds like something we ought to have to have as part of mer tools for development07:37
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps:  I got an OBS account yesterday. When I  test the qt-gstreamer against with MER, I got the "unresolvable: nothing provides automoc4". Mer does't offer this tool ?07:38
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: nop, not part of mer, but it does exist for mer -- you can perhaps copy it from https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=automoc4&project=CE%3AMW%3AShared07:39
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html might be useful for you as well, it's a mindmap of OBS concepts07:40
sonachStskeeps: OK, NFS is not an emerging thing, we can solve it later.07:40
Stskeepssonach: i'm thinking to pull out my harddisk from my media center too, so NFS will be useful for me too eventually ;)07:41
Stskeepssonach: if you can file a severity=task bug on bugs.merproject.org so we remember NFS is a good thing to have, that'd be good07:42
Stskeepsthen we don't forget07:42
Cenobyte_ok well thanks for the info07:43
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: thanks, the page for OBS is very useful07:44
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: it's a 'open source' mindmap too, so if you have 'freemind' program, you add to the map by downloading .mm file instead of .html07:45
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Stskeepsfor your own personal notes07:46
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Ok, thanks07:49
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: How can I copy automoc4 for my qt-gstreamer project ? Maybe I'm not familar with OBS.07:56
sonachStskeeps: It is a good way to file a bug. I will do that soon.07:59
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: i think it's best you get the 'osc' command line client, easier than the web interface to do things with08:02
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I got osc in my ubuntu 10.1008:05
Stskeepsok08:06
Stskeepsthen osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com copypac CE:MW:Shared automoc4 your-project08:06
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: It has been built successfully.08:28
Stskeepsgood :)08:28
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lbt_morning all08:49
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* Stskeeps has to head out for some allergy test, bbl08:50
lbto/08:51
lbtbtw ... no nfs-utils in core I hope08:52
lbtsamba/cifs if anything08:52
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sonachStskeeps: Feb 9th's release is the low-footprint release? Or only busybox can do help to low-footprint?09:05
Sagelower than before at least :)09:05
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sonachSage: OK. I will try it as soon as it is released:)09:06
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SageAFAIK the busybox is not ready for release yet09:07
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lbthey phaeron09:39
lbtwould you care to help out with our obs git->package today? see if we can find ScriptRipper too09:40
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ZiQiangHuanlbt: When I use "osc build --no-verify Mer_Core_armv7l armv7el" in my ubuntu10.10, can it work ? Now I see messages like http://pastie.org/334022109:55
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lbtZiQiangHuan: yes, that should work - it needs you to have the correct qemu though (and 10,10 is very old)10:38
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ZiQiangHuanlbt: you mean qemu-arm-static ?10:39
lbtyes - I need to check which qemu package is needed10:40
lbtwhere are you getting that?10:42
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ZiQiangHuanlbt: I got it from http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qemu-arm-static10:45
lbtOK - you'll have to check with Stskeeps then10:46
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lbtZiQiangHuan: have you looked on the meego wiki and the mer wiki ?10:47
ZiQiangHuanlbt: not yet.10:48
lbtOK - try that10:48
ZiQiangHuanlbt: I'll look at the wiki10:49
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lbtvgrade: seriously.... http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Commands ??10:54
lbtZiQiangHuan: where did you get the link for http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qemu-arm-static ?10:59
lbtthat's a very old binary and we should remove that from any documentation10:59
ZiQiangHuanlbt: very old binary ?11:01
lbtapparently11:01
ZiQiangHuanlbt: I can't find any usefull message on the wiki11:01
lbtZiQiangHuan: yes ... this is an area we are changing this week11:01
lbtMer will use a platform SDK which will have qemu inside it11:02
ZiQiangHuanlbt: that will be nice11:02
lbtyeah .... otherwise we have to support ubunutu 10.10, 11.04, 11.10, 12.04, Debian 5, 6, Fedora 14 15 etc etc11:02
lbtthe latest meego qemu should work11:03
ZiQiangHuanlbt: But now where can I get a suitable qemu ?11:03
lbtyeah, looking, the problem is that I installed this *ages* ago and it "just works" :)11:04
lbtso you forget how to install some things if you haven't done it for a while11:04
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SageStskeeps: http://review.merproject.org/#change,349 should be included to next core.11:31
Stskeepsokay, but udev fails?11:32
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Stskeepsdoesn't it rely on the udev that relies on more new systemd?11:32
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SageStskeeps: no, the patch for the udev failure was accepted already11:33
Stskeepsok11:33
Sagethe udev that is pending is new thing11:33
Sagehttp://review.merproject.org/#change,36211:33
Sage^ that should fix that udev thing11:33
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Stskeepsyou have v005-0-g90d...tar.gz11:33
Stskeepsis that incremental?11:33
SageStskeeps: the version is 00511:34
Stskeepsok, and it's from a upstream git or how is it?11:34
Sagethe rest in filename is just the git sha11:34
Sageyes, it was taken from upstream11:34
Stskeepsok11:34
Stskeepsusually it's good to have some kind of incremental number before sha11:35
SageStskeeps: http://lwn.net/Articles/464178/11:35
SageWith kernel.org file upload still not fully working, please use the11:35
Sagegithub link below to get a tarball if you need/want it.11:35
Stskeepsok11:35
Sageso I took straight from github website tag link that gave that package11:36
Stskeepsok11:36
StskeepsBostik: did you spot qt-project set up a discussion list for releasing/packaging?11:37
Bostikoh?11:37
Bostikhaven't had the time to keep up lately11:37
Stskeepshttp://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/releasing11:37
Bostikthank you11:38
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: Is there a suitable qemu binary for my Ubuntu10.10 ?11:48
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timophit's fairly easy to compile11:51
ZiQiangHuantimoph: If there isn't a suitable binary available, maybe I will try to compile myself.11:53
timophI have it configured like this (iirc): ./configure --prefix=$HOME/bin --targets-list=linux-arm-user11:54
timophso it's installed under my home dir and just the arm stuff11:54
Stskeepsif you can wait a day, it'll be provided nicely from mer side11:54
Stskeeps:P11:54
timoph:)11:54
lbtFYI   Bug triage in 5mins in #mer-meeting11:55
* timoph tries to follow it while working..11:57
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lbtnb ... add versioning issue to release blocker? ... discuss post triage12:07
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lbtphaeron: ping12:59
lbtcool http://review.merproject.org/#change,380 is ready13:00
Stskeepslbt: nitpick: * in front of the date13:04
Stskeepsi merged it already though13:04
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lbtthanks - I'll curse me later when I have to parse the changelogs13:06
Stskeeps:nod:13:06
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lbtand emacs has a changelog mode for debian, not rpm :)13:07
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Cwallelbt: i doubt which file system  actually  is while i got the rootfs directory before i use it13:16
lbtStskeeps: without me having to dig .. where does our ci obs publish to per-build?13:17
lbtCwalle: parsing error :)13:17
Stskeepslbt: it doesn't at the moment, i pull using tools/createrelease13:18
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Stskeepsthat's one part that ought to be changed13:18
lbtOK ... IMG needs to access it13:18
Cwallei mean could i just compress the rootfs directory and use it13:18
lbtyes13:19
lbtyou just put the rootfs directory in a compressed filesystem image13:19
Cwalleand what root file type should i point out to the kernel13:19
Cwallei have seen a script which used to generate the android rootfs, and it just used the ‘tar cf’ compressed the whole content13:22
Cwalleat last step13:23
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lbtCwalle: that sounds right13:28
lbttypically you make a filesystem on a block device or file, then you loop mount it and copy the rootfs to it using tar, cp etc13:29
Cwallelbt: i did not see any command about yaffs2,but it says that is a yaffs2 file13:30
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Cwallelbt:so, i can just 'tar cf mer-rootfs *.tar' and ues this tar file as a yaffs2 filesystem?13:33
StskeepsSage: can you take a task for upgrading libpng?13:35
StskeepsSage: our current version is exploit heaven13:35
lbtCwalle: no13:35
StskeepsSage: also libpng in later versions has NEON optimizations13:35
SageStskeeps: sure13:36
SageStskeeps: if there is bug assing to me13:36
lbtCwalle: you need to make a filesystem on a device13:36
lbtthen untar the tarball onto it13:36
Stskeepslbt: that doesn't really apply for flash based systems..13:37
Stskeeps:P13:37
Cwallelbt: thera are SD care and nand flash on my s3c6410 board13:37
StskeepsCwalle: i'd recommend you to start with testing from sd card13:37
CwalleStskeeps: yes, that's what i do now13:38
lbtwhere a block device can be a loopback image which you then install onto the flash13:38
Stskeepslbt: not correct, can i recommend you to read up on MTDs?13:38
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Stskeepshttp://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/general.html#L_ext2_mtd13:39
lbtOK13:39
lbton the wiki?13:39
Stskeepsjust hw adaptation stuff that you learn along the way13:40
CwalleOo...i am confused now!13:40
SageStskeeps: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/rdiff?opackage=libpng&oproject=Mer%3Afake%3ACore%3Aarmv7l&package=libpng&project=home%3Asage%3Abranches%3AMer%3Afake%3ACore%3Aarmv7l&rev=213:47
SageStskeeps: done ;)13:47
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Stskeepsshipit?13:48
Stskeeps:P13:48
StskeepsSage: in order not to regress, http://sourceforge.net/projects/libpng-apng/files/ ?13:49
Sageah13:51
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Sagedone13:56
Stskeepsshow me new diff?13:57
Stskeepsor is it on gitorious already13:57
Sagehttp://review.merproject.org/#change,38713:57
Sagehmmp... fedora doesn't have the apng patch13:57
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lbtStskeeps: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation_Guide/Step_by_step#Flashing_your_device14:03
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Stskeepsok14:04
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StskeepsSage: BTW, as a heads up: after i've gotten next release out the door, i'll default mer mesa to llvmpipe14:10
Stskeepsso we need to work out a solution so you can choose 'intel' mesa gles/egl14:10
SageStskeeps: ok14:10
Stskeepsthen we can give people virtual machines for mer quite easily14:11
Sage:nod:14:12
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Stskeepshttp://blogs.kde.org/node/4533 <- good read14:24
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Stskeepssmoku: i'm looking at cross compilation tools and such.. is there any specific things in the GNOME stack you'd typically want to have run as x86?14:33
Stskeepsthat are damn slow in qemu14:34
Stskeepsi honestly thought we would have hit 400 mer packages by now14:35
Stskeepsthat's maybe a good thing we haven't14:36
Stskeeps:P14:36
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smokuStskeeps: possibly gobject-introspection stuff, but you do not provide it anyway14:39
Stskeepsok14:39
Stskeepsthat's also a bit problematic due to the very intense mix with arm libraries14:40
Stskeepsnot sure if vala would be a candidate14:40
Stskeepssmoku: as an example, we now accelerate autoconf/automake/autoreconf, so that is heaps faster now14:40
Stskeeps30s qemu, 2s with sb214:40
smokuvalac is pretty light. the heavy lifting is done by gcc14:41
Stskeeps:nod:14:41
smokuanyway, devs shouldn't distribute sources requiring valac14:41
smokutranslated c-files should be in sources, so valac is not required for simple build14:41
Stskeeps:nod:14:42
lbtreally?14:42
* Stskeeps kicks qtwebkit14:43
Stskeepswhy you break14:43
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smokuphaeron was kicking with webkitgtk3 also... ;-)14:49
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Stskeepsit does surprise me a little bit that cordia seems the only really mobile focused gnome effort these days14:54
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smokuI suspect some Big-Reveal in area around Gnome Shell14:58
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slaineOur Dawati friends are working pretty hard, I suspect a big reveal around that too.14:59
Stskeepsdawati is probably tizen netbook continuation, tbh15:00
Stskeepsit says it right on the web page15:00
Stskeepsgood morning Khaled15:00
KhaledStskeeps: morning, how r u today?15:00
slaineStskeeps: yeah, no surprises there.15:01
StskeepsKhaled: i'm good, things are working15:01
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Khaledu know we need a blog updated daily15:02
Stskeepswe have a blog infrastructure in works15:03
Stskeepswe can't use stuff like blogspot as this is blocked in markets that would be very interested in mer15:03
chouchouneStskeeps: what do you mean by infrastructure ?15:03
Stskeepschouchoune: as in simple blog setup on our mer infra15:04
Khaledmaybe tumblr as it can look great also15:04
chouchouneeveryone would be able to create a blog on "Mer-blogs" ?15:04
chouchouneStskeeps: ok ;)15:04
StskeepsKhaled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China , so, no15:05
Stskeeps:P15:05
KhaledStskeeps: but do u care about china so much this is a global project15:06
StskeepsKhaled: i care about that people are able to access the content and learn about mer, so, exactly because it's global, it should be accessible everywhere :)15:07
Khaledit doesn't make any sense that china is blocking all these stuff, control freaks15:08
Stskeepsit probably doesn't, but let's leave world politics out of this place :)15:08
Stskeepsback to the facts, that means we maintain our own blogging infrastructure15:08
Stskeepswhich is good as we only rely on our own15:08
Khaledso you will make one yourselves?15:09
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Stskeepsprobably just install a off the shelf one15:09
chouchouneStskeeps: wouldn't a kind of aggregator be OK for that use ? Aggregating blogs posts from anywhere and replicating it on Mer's website15:10
chouchounea kind of "planet Mer"15:10
Stskeepsmm, maybe15:10
Stskeepsthough you usually want to read more, too15:11
chouchouneyes, it should be possible to read everything from the Mer infrastructure15:12
KhaledI dont know this all sounds very time consuming15:12
StskeepsKhaled: making good things is time consuming :)15:13
KhaledStskeeps: touché15:13
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vgradeKhaled, did you find any nemo screenshots?15:14
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vgradeSage, is your FOSDEM presentation online?15:14
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Khaledvgrade: no15:15
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/user/nsuffys?blend=1&ob=015:16
Khaledvgrade: I am still looking for something innovative like the n9 ui15:16
Stskeepshas a bunch of videos15:16
Stskeepssome old15:16
Khaledal the ui projects right now are all the same to me15:16
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Khaledvgrade: u told yesterday to ping someone about nemomobile who?15:17
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nsuffyshello :)15:18
vgradeKhaled, I asked Sage above for the presentation15:18
vgradensuffys, hi15:18
nsuffyshow are you ?15:18
Khaledvgrade: did he give anything?15:18
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo15:19
nsuffyswow, new plasma-active-testing-mer-usb, i download it now !15:19
vgradeKhaled, not yet, but I'm sure he will respond when he see's15:19
Khaledeveryone on the mer project should get an n915:20
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StskeepsKhaled: many of us do have one :P15:21
Khaledwell I actually want to get one cz its just awesome15:21
StskeepsKhaled: view these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnXLB0 , and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-GXO_urMow (narrated version of the last movie)15:22
nsuffysvgrade: not planned to make a live usb of plasma active ? new info about the pre-order of SparK ? :)15:23
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KhaledI saw all of that last year, in fact I had a presentation about the future and brought these videos15:23
Stskeepsalright, but you didn't see the two last ones, they're brand new15:24
Stskeeps:P15:24
Khaledit is really a clear vision of the future15:24
Khaledyeah watching now15:24
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Khaledlet me just tweet it15:31
Stskeepsthat's a world where Mer fits very well into, is my own personal belief15:33
KhaledWas just gonna say this needs rock solid core15:34
Stskeepsbecause i don't believe you can build such a world successfully with a walled garden or a non-open system15:34
KhaledI love how they made technology as a tool instead of being so immersive,that is my goal15:34
Khaledyeah pretty much15:34
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phaeronI just wish human interaction with technology would be beyond a finger or two15:38
Stskeepswe've already grown beyond that, how many times have you kicked your computer? ;)15:41
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phaeronsane answer is never , but astonishingly it's not the answer I have :D15:42
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slaineI tend to play fists of fury with my screens15:45
Khaledthere is only one problem about the future15:46
phaeronhttp://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/15:46
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Stskeeps'lo tsdedst & Crnkoj15:54
Crnkojhey15:54
Stskeepshey :) so what brings you here?15:54
Crnkojheh, we are trying to get meego to boot on an atrix phone, from a sdcard15:54
Crnkojtsdedst and me15:54
Stskeepswhat SoC is that?15:54
Crnkojtegra215:55
Crnkojdiscussing the bootargs now15:55
Stskeepsah, should be possible15:55
Stskeepsuse Mer and armv7l port15:55
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Stskeepswhat kernel version?15:55
Crnkojwe are looking at vgrades notes15:56
Crnkojand the meego tegra2 page15:56
Crnkojye15:56
Crnkojhttp://images.formeego.org/tegra2/15:56
Crnkoji was talking to vgrade some time ago about it he suggested the core version from there15:56
Crnkojsadly its 2.6.3915:56
Crnkojerm15:56
Crnkoj2.6.3215:56
Crnkoj39 was a typo15:56
Crnkoj2.6.32.915:56
Stskeepsok, you'll probably need to backport some patches15:56
Stskeepsbut ok15:56
Crnkojor well 2.6.32.50 is now the latest community android kernel15:56
Crnkojye its bad, motorola is poor with support for new kernels ...15:57
Crnkojone guy is trying to port the kernel/drivers to .39 for it15:57
Crnkojbut no word on it yet15:57
Stskeepsaftermarket adaptation is always a nightmare15:57
Stskeepswe had people in our team who worked in the original n900 team yet we had significant difficulties15:58
Crnkojyes true, but i find it annoying how the oem close source evreything =/ and dont update stuff15:58
CrnkojStskeeps, why so ?15:58
Crnkojoh nvm reread your statement15:58
Stskeepsbecause it often takes a long time to translate things across kernel versions15:58
Crnkojye i get that, i kinda read it first as if you guys had different opinions on stuff :)15:58
Crnkojanyhow what is the take on the 3.3 kernel having "android drivers" in the mainline again15:59
Crnkojwith mer/meego i mean15:59
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Stskeepsit really isn't that bad15:59
Stskeepsit's just a different way of doing things, from userland POV you just have to disable some things15:59
Stskeepsthe problem is userland drivers15:59
Stskeepslike GLES15:59
Crnkojye15:59
Crnkojwe all want GLES ^ ^16:00
Crnkoji have a n9 aswell16:00
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Crnkojsuch a lovely phone16:00
Crnkoji saw they said pr1.3 might come end of the month for it16:01
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Crnkojgogled a bit for mer for the n9 around but havent seen anything more "end user friendly"16:01
Stskeeps:nod: we have an adaptation in Nemo but the problem is there's no official way to flash the base OS back16:03
Crnkojoh my16:03
Stskeepswell, there's unofficial16:03
Crnkojbut unofficial way to get back to stock? :)16:03
Crnkojhya16:03
Stskeepslong story :)16:03
Crnkojaha16:03
Stskeepsbut touching mer on n9 or anything else voids your warranty16:03
CrnkojNemo works nice on it ?16:03
Stskeepsit's quite fast, yeah16:04
Crnkojah ye16:04
Stskeeps2.6.32 too16:04
Khaleddont want to interrupt but why dont u focus on the galaxy nexus?16:04
Crnkojbetter than pr1.2 ?16:04
CrnkojKhaled, who now ?16:04
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StskeepsKhaled: [16:57] <Stskeeps> aftermarket adaptation is always a nightmare16:04
Stskeepsthat's why16:04
Stskeeps:P16:04
Khaledyeah it sucks to port to something already being used16:05
Stskeepstrust me, i've done my fair share16:05
CrnkojStskeeps, one thing, i have a n9 64 without a receit (got it from ebay), is there a way of getting warranty directly from nokia IMEI based (i know motorola has that for isntance)16:05
StskeepsCrnkoj: i don't know, sorry16:05
Crnkojah no problem16:05
Crnkojyou know what meego/mer woudl really need, is a dalvik vm16:05
Crnkojso that people could use android apps on it16:05
Khalednooo16:05
Crnkojthe only thing that makes me still not love the n9 the most is the minor lack of apps16:05
Khaledandroid apps are not that good trust me I am a user16:06
chouchouneStskeeps: is there a documented way doing the unofficial method to flash the N9 with Nemo ?16:06
vgradehttp://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/09/openmobiles-acl-brings-250000-android-apps-meego/16:06
Khaledonly ios apps are good16:06
CrnkojKhaled, i know i have android too, but some are just good16:06
Khaledyeah some but not all and it is still a virtual machine16:06
Crnkojfor instance some weather or keyboard apps16:06
Crnkoji know16:06
Khaledwell we need an app sdk that rivals apple's16:07
Khaledcz thats the high water mark now16:07
Crnkojvgrade, very nice, but still no timeframe on it, or ?16:08
StskeepsCrnkoj: i'm still pissed at the fact someone at canonical got dalvik+android apps working on top of standard glibc years ago and didn't release source because of 'philosophical difficulties with android's openness'16:08
Crnkoji ahve to be honest i woudl pay some money for that16:08
StskeepsCrnkoj: just imagine how the world would look like now16:08
Stskeeps:P16:08
CrnkojStskeeps,  i assume nokia would do mroe meego stuff :)16:08
Crnkojmore16:08
Stskeeps\o/16:08
Stskeepsqtwebkit 2.2.1 built16:08
Crnkoj?16:08
Stskeepsworking on Mer while we talk16:09
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Crnkojah ok  :)16:09
Crnkojman i was looking meego/mer for pandaboard (omap4460)16:09
chouchouneStskeeps: your multitasking is quite efficient16:09
Crnkojfound a page on how to, yet only a weird zombie way to get pvr to work with ubuntu boot16:10
StskeepsCrnkoj: got a pandaboard?16:11
Crnkojyes16:11
Crnkojrunning gentoo on it now16:11
Crnkojhardfloat16:11
Crnkojsadly with omapfb instead of pvr16:11
Crnkojsince the hardfloat pvr driver isnt really accesible yet16:12
Crnkojthe ubuntu guys apparently ahve it, but havent released it yet16:12
Stskeeps:nod:16:13
Crnkoji would like to try meego16:13
Stskeepsmer has both softfp and hardfp16:13
Stskeepsdon't bother with meego16:13
Crnkojpvr drivers ?16:13
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Crnkoji mean mer16:13
Stskeepsno, just builds16:13
Crnkoj(i keep using meego for mer)16:13
Stskeepspvr drivers you can use ubuntu deliverables16:13
Crnkojah ye16:13
Crnkojhmm ye i saw that16:13
Stskeepsas they're sotfp16:13
Stskeepsand not the zombie way16:13
Stskeeps:P16:13
Crnkojah16:14
Crnkoji woudl prefer hardfp16:14
Crnkojits faster16:14
Crnkoj(well honestly thre most i woudl prefer to get gentoo to work well16:14
Stskeepsyeah..16:14
Crnkojwith pvr and video playback16:14
Stskeepsi would prefer hardfp too but we're not there yet16:14
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Crnkojye but i heard they have it16:15
Crnkojsoon to be released16:15
Crnkojapparently16:15
Crnkojin the #pandaboard channel16:15
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Crnkojkinda waiting on that16:15
Stskeepsit's really stupid, too, because it's really just a recompile16:15
Stskeepswe did it for omap3, n90016:15
Crnkojye lol16:15
Crnkoji dont get that16:15
Crnkojnvidia is similar16:15
Crnkojsorry (was similar)16:16
Stskeepsnvidia at least released something16:16
Stskeepsi was astonished they were the fist16:16
Stskeepsfirst16:16
Crnkojwell, i was astonished they didnt do it earlier, since they have quite a good linux drivers reputation for their pc cards16:16
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Crnkojstill for the atrix we have this issue with the outdated kernel and no perspective to get a newer one from them16:17
Crnkojso the nv libs released are uselss for us16:17
Khaledwhy use an atrix instead of a nexus device?16:18
Crnkoj(we hope for lg to release ICS for the optimus 2x - which they "promised" and than use their kernel sources and libs)16:18
CrnkojKhaled, because i have one :)16:18
Crnkojbought one16:18
Crnkojbefore i knew the stuff16:18
Khaledbut u dont have a nexus ?16:18
Crnkojbesides the phone is very appealing like that16:18
Crnkojno have an atrix and a n916:18
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Khaledwell the galaxy nexus would have much easier16:18
Crnkojmost definitely16:18
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Crnkojbut the gn came almost a year after the atrix or such16:19
Khaledat least it has ics ouside of the fragmantation16:19
Crnkojtrue16:19
Crnkojbut i bought the atrix last feb16:19
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Crnkoj(sort of first dualcore)16:19
Crnkojit has great battery life16:19
Crnkojalmost 3 days on average16:19
Khaledyeah and motoblur16:19
Crnkojand it has a fingerprint reader!16:19
Crnkojcm7/9 now :)16:19
Crnkojcm7 is massively impressive16:19
Khaledi have a motorola defy with cm916:19
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Khaledyeah16:20
Khaledhave u tried the chrome beta?16:20
Crnkojcm9 sadly no kernel/libs to support hw (yet)16:20
Stskeepshttp://review.merproject.org/388 <- reviews welcome for qtwebkit 2.2.116:20
Khaledit is not working on cm916:20
Crnkojnah its ics only and i dont have cm9 on it yet16:20
Crnkojoh16:20
Crnkojcant try it than O_o16:20
Khaledis qtwebkit sort of like an sdk using html and javascript?16:21
StskeepsKhaled: qtwebkit is the WebKit engine with qt and it's apis as backend16:21
Khaledso it is used to develop apps or what?16:21
Stskeepsit's used for browsers, html5 runtimes, etc16:22
StskeepsKhaled: http://ariya.blogspot.com/2011/06/your-webkit-port-is-special-just-like.html16:22
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Khaledso what language is mer core build on?16:26
StskeepsKhaled: all sorts, but i guess primarily C/C++16:26
Khaledso it is native vs webos for example which is all web stuff16:27
Stskeepsbrb food16:28
Khaledjust saw the new update for ps vita16:28
Crnkojhey guys about meego on the atrix, tsdedst  made a custom boot.img with boot args to boot frmo the meego p1 partition on the sdcard and did fastboot boot boot.img and gets "powering on BP" and "booting downloaded image" and stays16:28
Crnkojany idea what could be tried ?16:28
Crnkojfor some time16:29
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KhaledI dont know but I think it would be easier for u to trade your atrix with gn16:29
KhaledI mean it took the developers alot to get cm9 on motorola devices16:30
Khaledimagine mer16:30
Crnkojah16:31
Crnkojits a tegra2 basically16:31
Crnkojmer is working on tegra2 tablets16:31
Crnkojshouldnt be too hard once its booted16:31
Khaledwell tegra 3 is coming so...16:32
Crnkojye16:33
Crnkojstill man i cant just throw a phone away after a year16:33
Crnkojits perfectly well working lol16:33
Crnkojand the only one to have fp unlock!16:33
Khaledwe seriously need a handset mainly targeted16:33
Khaledfor mer16:33
Crnkojmy guess is16:33
Crnkojthe new htc with tegra316:33
Crnkojnvidia releases new kernels/libs fast16:34
Crnkojhtc ah unlocked bl16:34
Crnkojhas16:34
Crnkojand does quite timely updates too16:34
KhaledI dont want to sound like a spec freak but we dont need all that power16:34
Khaledlinux has tought me that companies bloat and slow down their software intentionaly to make us buy new phones16:34
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KhaledI mean look at the n9 working great on a single core16:35
Crnkojtrue16:35
Crnkojvery true16:36
Crnkojstill that would be future proof than16:36
Crnkojand as said probably a nvidia soc is the way to go16:36
Crnkojor16:36
Crnkojactually16:36
Crnkojintel atom16:36
Khaledand they would make no money I know they have to do that16:36
Crnkojwhen they manage to get these low power ones16:36
Khaledbut not at that crazy rate16:36
Khaledand google just abandoned everyone I mean ics runs 1%16:36
Khaled1%16:37
Crnkojheh true16:37
Khaledioen source shouldn't be dictatorship with everyone doing their own skin16:38
Khaledit should be atleast balanced with some control16:38
Crnkojye16:38
Crnkoji think google said now that some part of the ics look is mandatory16:38
Crnkojto get market certification16:38
Khaledyeah the holo theme but thats not enough16:38
Crnkojhonestly if only that update alliance would work properly16:39
Khaledand their design guidlines should be forced cz apps look like windows mobile apps16:39
Crnkojit would be fine16:39
Crnkoji mean look16:39
Khaledyeah where is the update alliance, no where16:39
Crnkojnokia pushed bell for the n8 now16:39
Khaledand thats an awesome move16:39
Crnkojwhich is how old? 2 or 3 years ?16:39
Crnkojstill has THE best camera ona  mobile16:40
Crnkojon a16:40
Khaledyeah but the n8 sucks compared to n916:40
Crnkojgod the n9 camera is so bad16:40
Crnkojtrue16:40
Khaledthe iphone 4s is better16:40
Crnkoji had two n9's first a 16gb one black which is sold for a profit than (lol) now have a 64gb black one16:40
Khaledit shoots 1080p and pictures look awesome16:40
StskeepsKhaled: re native vs webos, even webos has native parts16:40
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StskeepsKhaled: i personally push fast runtimes, qml and html5, while there's ability to do fast native uis too16:41
KhaledI read the ex palm employee that said it is built on webkit which is not ready or fatst enough16:41
Crnkojman webos is pretty good16:41
Khaledwell its all about the end result16:41
Crnkoji dare to say better than android16:42
StskeepsKhaled: there's always opinions.. i like html5 as app story but i wouldn't write my whole phone UI in it16:42
Crnkojmaybe ics is on par with it16:42
dcthangCrnkoj: agree that camera on N9 is so bad16:42
Crnkojdcthang, i dont get it even the atrix with a 5mp camera is better16:42
Crnkojeven a 4 yers old 6220c makes WAY better pics16:42
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Khaledyeah the web works for some stuff and some dont16:42
Crnkojyeras16:42
Crnkojyears16:42
Khaledwhat is everyone's opinion on java?16:42
Crnkojdcthang, i hope its a software issue and they will be able to fix it with pr1.316:42
Crnkoji mean pr 1.216:43
dcthangyeah, I hope so16:43
CrnkojKhaled, its rather easy to write and terribly widespread, but in my opinion its a bad language16:43
Khaledme too I really dislike it16:43
Khaledits either native c or web for me16:43
Khaledand if the n9 ux sunk in your minds then I am sure u wont tolerate buggy software16:44
Crnkojye well java is improving too16:44
Crnkojbut as said16:44
Crnkoji feel its unnecessary16:44
Crnkojits good for cross compatibility16:44
Khaledwell we need to do something with webos16:44
Crnkojbut its so much overhead16:45
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KhaledI mean it will be opensourced16:45
Khaledand has apps ready for a tablet and a phone16:45
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Khaledcant we just copy their ux with major modifications and run it on mer16:45
Stskeepsi'd say 'possibly', but at the moment it's hard to tell16:46
Stskeepswe share a lot of components in base system16:46
Crnkojyeey16:46
Crnkojwebos is still linux kernel based right ?16:46
Stskeepsright16:46
Khaledtheir ux is my favourite because it can scale easily16:46
Khaledwhile n9 is only limited to phone ui16:46
Stskeepswell, that's what you would think16:46
Stskeepswe run nemo on tablets too and it's in fact not bad on a tablet factor16:47
Stskeeps(nemo uses same technologies as n9 ui, except some closed parts)16:47
Khaledand I cant imagine the n9 ui on a tablet it would be unintuitive16:47
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Khaleddoes mer run on the touchpad?16:47
CrnkojStskeeps, is tehre any nemo/mer work done for the nook color ? it has a very similar soc to the n916:48
StskeepsCrnkoj: yes16:48
Stskeepsmer at least16:48
StskeepsCrnkoj: i have a nook color myself, we have framebuffer+touchscreen working, wifi in progress16:48
Khaledtouchpad anyone?16:48
StskeepsKhaled: touchpad is qualcomm and a bit problematic16:48
wmarone_Crnkoj: if you're familiar with the ti wlan stuff, could always use the help :)16:49
StskeepsKhaled: http://youtu.be/9egLh3yF5gk -- some flaws in that particular image16:49
Khaledreally is omap and tegra easier for u?16:49
StskeepsKhaled: yes, surprisingily16:49
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Stskeepsomap and tegra actually supports normal linux16:49
Khaledwhich is easier omap or tegra?16:49
Crnkojwmarone_, im not really, im mostly "jumping into this stuff"16:49
Stskeepsi prefer omap personally16:49
Stskeepsbut others like tegra2 too16:49
CrnkojStskeeps, nice16:49
CrnkojStskeeps, this might be interesting for you, let me link you16:50
wmarone_Crnkoj: ok. but as Stskeeps said, framebuffer and touchscreen are working. I'm trying to unravel the wifi situation atm.16:50
KhaledI just love the powervr sgx543mp216:50
Khaledits what in the ipad16:50
Crnkojhttp://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/nwbuildtimes.xml16:50
Crnkojlook there Stskeeps  it seems the tegra2 is faster than the omap4 in pure cpu speed lol16:51
StskeepsCrnkoj: willing to bet that usb performance sucks16:51
Crnkojand it pretty much kills it in ram speeds http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/memcpy-neon_result.txt16:51
CrnkojStskeeps, on what ?16:51
Crnkojyou  mean the sdcard he used for the system ?16:51
StskeepsCrnkoj: they say USB stick16:51
Crnkojoh ye16:51
Crnkoji ahve my panda on an usb stick too16:51
StskeepsCrnkoj: also, tegra2 doesn't have NEON16:51
Crnkojyep i know16:52
vgradeKhaled, http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/Touchpad16:52
CrnkojNEON doesnt seem to have such an impact there though16:52
CrnkojStskeeps, wmarone_ , there are a few guys who might be of actual help with the nook color16:52
Crnkojthey kind of interested me in all of this playing around16:52
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StskeepsCrnkoj: anyway, we work on a common core here so i don't really care much about specific hardware, we just enable you guys to do great things with it :)16:53
Stskeepsand optimize our work as see fit16:53
Crnkojhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=137087316:53
Crnkojhere16:53
Crnkojthe guys dalingrin, keyodi and fattire16:54
Crnkojseem to know what they are doing16:54
Crnkoji think they could help you with the wifi issue16:54
wmarone_heh16:54
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Crnkojjust post int hat thread even or pm them16:54
Crnkojor16:54
Crnkojjoin the channel #nookcolor16:54
wmarone_I'm in #nookcolor, fattire is there most of the time16:54
Crnkojah ok16:54
Crnkojye16:54
Crnkojthey cant help you? ^ ^16:54
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StskeepsICS is what kernel version for them?16:54
Stskeepsah..16:54
Stskeepsstill 2.6.3216:55
RaYmAnwow..you'd think they'd move to 3.x16:55
wmarone_they can't16:55
wmarone_at least not without cleaning up all the board support files and pushing them upstream16:56
Crnkojye16:56
RaYmAnoh wait, nook color.I was thinking nook tablet =P16:56
wmarone_and that's a nontrivial amount of work that delayed me for months16:56
Crnkojsame "shit" for the atrix16:56
wmarone_nook tablet is crippled and worthless16:56
RaYmAnwmarone_: afaik someone managed to open up the bootloader16:56
wmarone_I saw that16:56
wmarone_the explanation isn't clear and there are few details16:57
Crnkojye16:57
wmarone_I still won't buy hardware that they deliberately cripple16:57
Crnkojhumm i need to get a tablet for my grandma lol16:57
Crnkojlooking at a xoom since its GED or towardds an archo 101g916:58
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Crnkojarchos16:58
Crnkojthe xoom + is its a GED, the archos + is its a tad cheaper16:58
wmarone_I think vgrade et. al. have PA + mer running on the G9s16:58
Stskeepsg9 will have mer, yeah16:58
Stskeepshttp://dot.kde.org/2011/11/30/plasma-active-archos-g9-tablet16:59
Crnkojwell my grandma would use android i guess16:59
Crnkoj:)16:59
Crnkojneed something thats stable and has a lot of junk out of the box16:59
Crnkojjunk = apps16:59
Crnkojye and archos said they would update to ics very soon too17:00
wmarone_your grandma will use whatever is available, frankly17:00
wmarone_heh17:00
StskeepsCrnkoj: so, you're mostly interested in hardware adaptations and mer?17:00
Stskeepsor doing UIs on top too17:00
CrnkojStskeeps, ah, we have to start slow :) 6 months ago i havent even touched linux17:01
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Crnkojby now im running dual boots win7/gentoo on most of my pcs (only gentoo on one even)17:01
Crnkojand even got the panda to work with gentoo (mostly, still ahve issues with hardware gfx and video palyback)17:01
Crnkojim happy to get some more "native" linux (other than android) to run on the nook and atrix well17:02
CrnkojStskeeps, so first kinda need to start low with adaptations than do UIs or stuff, if i will have the time, have to finish studies and once i do that ill work 24/7 =/17:03
Khaledwell if we have such limited resources then focus on one tablet and one phone17:03
* Khaled put everything into that17:03
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Khaledwhat kernal is mer running on?17:03
Stskeepswe usually say that 2.6.32 or above is lowest17:04
Stskeepsmer doesn't have a kernel of it's own, it's hardware adaptation17:04
Khaledand sorry what is ics on?17:05
Crnkojthat is good17:05
Crnkojics is mostly .39 or 3.x17:05
Crnkoj3.017:05
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Crnkojgn is using 3.something17:05
wmarone_with weird backports to 2.6.32 for things like the nook color17:05
Crnkoji think the xoom uses .3917:05
Crnkojtrue17:05
Khaledwhich is way better than 2.x?17:05
StskeepsKhaled: keep in mind that you can run with 3.1 or 3.2 if you so desire, we just build userland with a specific assumption that a kernel larger than or equal to 2.6.32 exists17:05
Khaledyeah but u shouldn't start backeard compatablity from the start17:06
Khaledif 3.x is so much better than start from that17:06
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Stskeepsthere's very good reasons why we do that, as a start, availability of devices that can actually run mer17:07
Khaledand as I said befor focus on one phone and one tablet17:07
CrnkojKhaled, kernel drivers for soem devices arent available for newer kernels but the .32 lets say17:07
Stskeepsa too high bar will make it impossible to actually develop with it17:07
Khaledwell we are starting fresh so u shouldn't care about devices17:07
Crnkojthan you would have to port them to newer kernels , lets say 3.217:07
Crnkojwhich is terribly hard and timeconsuming17:07
StskeepsKhaled: yeah, that didn't go too well in meego :) we focus on generic ARM/X86/MIPS17:07
Khaledonly new and mer specific17:07
StskeepsKhaled: and if anyone wants to run own hardware adaptations they're welcome17:08
Khaledwell meego had hardware partners17:08
Stskeepswe have some quite high quality ones17:08
Stskeepsheh, not that they did shit17:08
Stskeeps:P17:08
Khaledso what is the best phone and tablet runnig mer17:08
Khaled?17:08
Stskeepsat the moment, n900/n950/n9 and exopc based tablets17:09
Crnkojn95017:09
Crnkojexopc whats that ?17:09
Stskeepsor virtualbox or vmware or qemu ;)17:09
Stskeepsdoesn't really matter17:09
Crnkojgod qemu im getting sick of it, tried to set it up at least 5 times17:09
Crnkojstill no dice17:09
Crnkoji must be stupid lol17:09
Khaledn950 and n9 are okay but the exo pc is not up to today standards17:09
Stskeepsit works fine for development17:10
Crnkojso sad one cannot get a n950 nowdays17:10
Crnkoji actualyl wanted to get a n950 instead of the n917:10
Crnkojfor the kb sakes17:10
Khaledbut is ist easy to port mer on gn?17:10
Stskeepsanyway, which hardware to choose is like opinions, everybody has one17:10
Khaledfragmantation17:10
CrnkojKhaled, actualyl if you would port mer to the pandaboard (which it almsot is fully functional), than you can assume proting to the gn isnt an issue either17:11
Crnkojsince they share the same SoC17:11
Crnkojand the gn has a "new" up-too-date kernel17:11
Crnkojup-to17:11
Khaledwell first I dont have one17:11
Crnkojbut not everyone likes such huge phones for isntance :)17:11
Khaledyeah but it is the best now17:12
Khaledits only gn 4s and n9 for me17:12
Crnkojlol17:13
Crnkojyou ahve n9 and 4s? :P17:13
Khaledno I mean those are my high watermarks17:13
KhaledI only have and android phone and an ipad 2 which I am on irc with17:13
KhaledI hope u guys learn from android and its fragmantation cz its all on the user17:14
Crnkojah17:15
Crnkojpeople dont care17:15
Crnkojlol17:15
Crnkoj(the general public)17:15
Crnkojthats why android went so fast sky high17:15
Khaledexactly they just want stuff to work good and look nice17:15
Khaledand fragmantation is the opposite of that17:15
Crnkojbut i believe in the next few years wp7/8 will go sky high and start to gain share17:15
Crnkojso probably at some point it will be 1/1/1 iOS/android/wp17:16
Khaledwell they have billions of money so its just a matter of time17:16
Crnkojor iOS will even loose users relatively17:16
Khaledwell its our goal to be number 117:16
Crnkojwell the nokia deal was a great move from ms17:16
Crnkojbesides17:16
Khaledand beat wp to the race17:16
Crnkoji feel wp7 is the best big os out right now17:16
Crnkojbetter than ios17:16
Crnkojand better than android by far17:16
Khaledwp is not better17:16
Khaledthan ios17:16
Crnkojman it works faster on a single core 1ghz cpu than android on a dualcore 1.ghz17:17
lbtcould you take this to #meego-bar :)17:17
KhaledI am sorry its laughable right now and no one wants17:17
Crnkojye sorry17:17
lbtta17:17
Khaledand ios runs fast on my dads i4 single core17:17
Stskeepslbt: any progress on your side?17:17
lbtgetting IMG up17:17
Stskeepslbt: i managed to get qtwebkit 2.2.1 building, which i'm terribly happy about17:18
lbtI saw that - good stuff17:18
lbtwhat was needed?17:18
CrnkojStskeeps, which sources do you guys use for gst-plugins-ffmpeg ? im trying to build those on the pandaboard an have to edit the config file of every source i pull to remove fsputil_vfp support else it fails compilign,s aying the processor doesnt support ARM17:18
Khaledis the latest linux kernal 3.2.5?17:19
Crnkojstable yes, there is 3.3-rc2 if i dont mistaken, jsut check kernel.org17:19
Khaledany major changes?17:20
Crnkojyou should check the changes on the page i dont really look at those17:20
Crnkojbut as sdiscussed earlier 3.3 should have some major android drivers in it17:20
Stskeepslbt: a hammer and looking at how debian did it17:20
lbt:)17:21
StskeepsCrnkoj: we don't really, we can't include that directly in core due to patent reasons17:21
StskeepsCrnkoj: others are welcome to build it though17:21
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lbtwtf is mic doing in /usr/local/bin/mic-image-creator17:21
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lbtthose MINT guys sure let things slide since I left :)17:22
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Stskeepsphaeron: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1NDk17:23
phaeronStskeeps: yeah I've seen17:24
phaeronStskeeps: not sure what to make of it17:24
CrnkojStskeeps, ah i see17:24
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Stskeepsphaeron: just interesting way to get perhaps more performance17:25
lbt"Dawati is the open-source user-interface expected to be the reference design for Tizen" ... ?17:25
Stskeepslbt: convuluted17:25
Stskeepsbut at least they seperated dawati from tizen trademark17:25
Stskeepscompared to meego netbok ux17:25
phaeronStskeeps: I meant hiding stuff so they can do big reveal as usual17:26
Khaledwell samsung sold 4m bada phones so they can sure sell tizen phone17:26
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Crnkojoh wayland nice17:26
Crnkoji hear good things about it17:26
Crnkojoh the archos you ported mer on it has "only" 512mb ram ?17:27
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lbtso phaeron... mic2 installs to /usr/local/bin ?17:28
phaeronI don't remember17:28
phaeronaren't we supposed to move to mic anyway17:29
lbtyeah but I need IMG running now17:29
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StskeepsCrnkoj: i have had qmlviewer up in 37mb..17:30
Stskeepswithout trying hard17:30
phaeronlbt: how are you installing the img worker17:30
lbthttp://autodoc.meego.com/mint/imager/install.html17:30
CrnkojStskeeps, sorry what qmlviewer for ?17:30
lbtnot kvm yet17:30
andrnilsany chance of getting something mer-based running on the nokia e7?17:30
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phaeronlbt: tell me host distro is not debian :)17:31
lbtit is17:31
Stskeepsandrnils: not really, locked bootloader17:31
phaeronmic2 has problems on debian17:32
phaeronso better have opensuse worker , or use kvm17:32
lbtI planned to use kvm with mer SDK based root17:33
lbtnested kvm17:33
phaeronnested kvm worked for me but tended to hard hang my box. It also needs fairly recent host17:34
lbtI had hoped to run chroot first17:34
lbthost is 3.1.9-1.4-default  suse 12.117:34
phaeronthat should work a bit better, and you need very recent qemu-kvm for nested17:35
lbtI may revert to running the worker in kvm on the phost if needed17:35
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andrnilsStskeeps: such a same, the hw feels pretty solid. how are the specs for it?17:37
andrnilsfrom a price pov, they should be lower than the n9 specs17:37
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Crnkojhey guys one thing, nemo is the window manager for mer ?17:38
phaeronlbt: running mer sdk in kvm using the method described in the docs should be fairly stable17:39
lbtyep - that's the plan17:39
lbtI'll throw up a suse worker and run chroot until then17:39
StskeepsCrnkoj: no, it's a handset project, UI and hardware adaptations17:40
StskeepsCrnkoj: project wise seperate from mer, but it builds upon mer17:40
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CrnkojStskeeps, ah ok i see, what window managre is used for it though ? i mean, could i get a similar UI that is nemo or get nemo on a pc running gentoo linux (like i can have gnome3 or lxde or such on it) ?17:41
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StskeepsCrnkoj: it uses mcompositor as wm17:42
Crnkojhmm17:42
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Crnkojhmm17:43
Crnkojthanks17:43
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lbtOK17:49
lbtso IMG is kinda running17:49
lbtit has a debian chroot worker17:49
lbtmic won't make a chroot for mer .ks files17:49
lbtso we need to bootstrap using http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners#STEP_3_-_Create_a_bootstrap_area17:49
CrnkojStskeeps, one question to get the core package to boot on that phone should we use mmcblk1p2 or p1 as the root (i assume p2) ?17:49
phaeronlbt: so the story is mic2 gets the needed packages from a repository mentioned in the kickstart to create the bootstrap17:50
lbthardcoded?17:50
phaeronlbt: but mer's minimal repositories do not provide those packaes17:50
lbtOK17:50
phaeronlbt: afair it searches the repos17:50
phaeronlbt: so first step is to create the bootstrap from a repo that provides those packages17:50
lbtso when I said "needs to be redone later" I should have said "will not be needed when mer provides the deps"17:51
phaerondoes the mer Tools repo have them yet ?17:51
phaeronwell not mer core as those are not supposed to be there17:51
lbtso lets forget mer as chroot bootstrap for now17:52
phaeronafair You can specify the mainrepo in the conf file at /etc/mic2/mic2.conf17:52
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phaeronso try adding it there now and see if the bootstrapping works17:52
phaeronbut we really should move to using mer Tools repo17:52
lbtyes... after IMG runs17:53
lbtvery next big task17:53
lbtthen iterate over IMG17:53
lbtmmm, actually OBS package is next, then SDK, then iterate17:53
lbtso .... do I *need* mainrepo?17:54
lbtor can I bootstrap17:54
phaeronif you create the initial bootstrap manually and allow img to reuse it then you don't need to add it there17:54
lbt"allow img to reuse it"17:55
lbtnot mentioned in the img.conf file17:55
zumbilbt: do you use debian as host OS?17:55
lbtyes in our infra17:55
zumbiand do you have deb packages that could live in debian archive? i.e. worker deb packages?17:56
zumbior server packages?17:56
lbtyes17:56
lbthttps://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=Project%3AMINT%3ATesting17:56
zumbilbt: I would be happy to review them and upload them to main debian archive17:56
lbtcool - some support on debian packaging would be nice17:57
lbtwe need to review our strategy for some of the tools17:57
lbtbut certainly our systems offerings should be able to run on debian17:57
zumbilbt: I had lots of problems using server software over Debian, currently using appliance given by openSUSE17:58
zumbiworkers are fine17:58
lbtobs workers?17:58
zumbiyep17:58
CrnkojStskeeps, i have one question about the boot.img to try to boot mer on the atrix, does it have or must not have a ramdisk ?17:58
lbtwe're doing IMG workers atm17:58
lbtphaeron: ok - rootstrap built17:58
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phaeronlbt: you don't need to do anything special besides creating the bootstrap in the place mic2 expects it when it is run by img17:59
lbtzumbi: I don't run any obs on debian - sorry :)17:59
zumbilbt: IMG? as image generation workers? using kickstart and MIC?17:59
lbtyes17:59
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lbtand link into our BOSS automation17:59
StskeepsCrnkoj: doesn't have to, just boot straight to the fs typically17:59
phaeronlbt: remember this is a new use path so yes it is not documented17:59
lbtso each time we do a commit into gerrit/mer-core we do a rootfs build17:59
lbtphaeron: I'm not complaining :)17:59
phaeronok :)18:00
lbtbbias ... need a drink18:00
zumbiis it worth to use gerrit? does not obs handle patches by itself?18:00
phaeronzumbi: gerrit provides a developer workflow that is faster and more agile than obs18:01
phaeronwe also do have an OBS based review process18:02
CrnkojStskeeps, thanks, we tried with these boot args http://pastebin.com/nAD3tD8C , but tsdedst left the ramdisk in it, jsut removed init and init.rc, probably thats messing it up18:02
phaeronzumbi: currently being used by nemo18:02
zumbiI am not sure what BOSS is, but if it is a validation/verification framework, have you thought on using Linaro LAVA?18:02
CrnkojStskeeps, how do you make a boot.img without a ramdisk,, with mkbootimg, you must have a ramdisk or it says "error no ramdisk specified"18:03
StskeepsCrnkoj: just make an empty one i gues18:03
CrnkojStskeeps, oh ok18:04
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phaeronzumbi: boss is built around ruote , a business process workflow engine. it can do anything you write "participants"  for.18:06
vgradeCrnkoj, have you tried /dev/mmcblk1p2 as your root. Also are you sure its mmcblk1 fro your sdcard.  You have done the right thing with initrd18:06
phaeronzumbi: Linaro lava looks more like OTS which was being used in meego.com18:07
phaeronwe don't have an OTS installation yet, so it could be feasible to write a participant for lava to plug it into our workflows for image validation and testing18:07
zumbiphaeron: I see, thanks, I was looking to http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Infrastructure/BOSS18:08
lbtok18:08
vgradeCrnkoj, also try rootwait option18:08
phaeronzumbi: it's a bit outdated but the basics there still hold. ping me if something is unclear18:09
* phaeron notes to migrates the docs to sphinx and to autodoc18:09
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lbtIOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/bin/mic18:10
lbtdipshit installation to /usr/local/bin18:10
Crnkojvgrade, yes we tried both, had rootwait at 25 and 5018:11
Crnkojvgrade, and yes we tried with mmcblk1p218:11
lbtit installs itself there and invokes /usr/bin internally!18:11
Crnkojvgrade, http://pastebin.com/nAD3tD8C here what was used, it just try to boot, than reboots and boots to cm718:11
Crnkojvgrade, than it was booted with fastboot boot boot1.img18:12
phaeronlbt: is that after or before chroot ?18:12
lbtbefore I think18:13
phaeronmm18:13
lbt0% sure18:13
lbterr 90% sure18:13
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Sagevgrade: not yet, I'll try to push it somewhere tomorrow18:14
SageKhaled: ^18:14
tsdedsti tried removing init.rc, removing init* and removing everything from the ramdisk, nothing worked18:15
tsdedstwith the args in Crnkoj's pastebin18:15
lbtphaeron: yes, it's the 'new' mic2 version you copied in a few weeks ago18:16
lbt0.24.1418:16
phaeronlbt: ok :(18:16
lbtwell I guess it came from MeeGo ?18:16
phaeronwill look now and promote18:16
lbtta :)18:17
vgradeCrnkoj, rootwait not rootdelay18:19
vgradeSage, thanks, Khaled was wanting some nemo screenies18:20
tsdedstvgrade how much rootwait?18:22
Crnkojvgrade, ah sorry18:22
vgradeCrnkoj /dev/mmcblk1p2 without the /block/18:22
Crnkojvgrade, its seen with /block/ on the device always18:23
vgradedo you get any kernel messages on screen?18:23
Crnkojno18:24
Crnkojnot until now, the problem is one cant debug anything there18:24
Crnkojno serial, no jtag no output to the screen18:24
vgradewhen you say on the its seen with /block/ on the device you mean when booted with andriod18:25
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vgradewhat do you have on your sdcard?18:26
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Crnkojvgrade, yes when booted with android18:28
Crnkojvgrade, the sdcard has the mer core dded onto it18:28
Crnkojvgrade, the one from here http://images.formeego.org/tegra2/18:29
vgradeok but that is built for mmcblk018:30
Crnkojah18:30
Crnkojso we should build our own one ?18:30
vgrademount the sdcard and edit the fstab18:30
Crnkojaha ok18:30
Crnkojvgrade, thanks, should we try with /dev/block/mmcblk or /dev/mmcblk ?18:31
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Crnkojvgrade, tried your suggestions, still no dice18:41
Crnkojtried both /dev/block/mmcblk1 and /dev/mmcblk118:41
Crnkojin the fstab18:41
Crnkojvgrade, is there a bootarg/option that forces kernel output to the screen ?18:42
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phaeronCrnkoj: add console=tty0 to the kernel boot command line afair18:44
phaeronand remove quiet if it is three18:44
phaeron*there18:44
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Crnkojremove quite where ?18:44
phaeronlbt: try upgrading now18:44
phaeronCrnkoj: kernel boot command line18:45
lbtsec on phone :)18:45
Crnkojaha ok18:45
phaeronbrb18:45
lbtpulling18:45
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khaled_so any screenshots on the nemo mobile18:47
khaled_?18:47
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StskeepsKhaled: i pointed you to a bunch of videos of it earlier18:53
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Stskeepsvgrade: is that gles?19:19
vgradeno19:20
Stskeepsok19:20
Stskeepsstill fairly good19:20
vgradeyea, be even better with gles19:20
vgradedo we still have the llvmpipe blocker on arm?19:21
Stskeepsyes, sadly19:21
vgradelooking forward to see what lima can do19:22
_av500_wasnt lima scheduled to be release today?19:24
vgradenot seen anything on #lima19:25
_av500_maybe after fosdem he slept for 3 days in a row19:26
vgrade_av500_, I brought back a very bad cold and I think he mentioned he did too19:28
_av500_yeah19:29
_av500_I should have slept 3 days :)19:29
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Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbyyA9X4Qk20:32
Stskeeps(thanks to vgrade)20:32
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harbaumcool. does it have hw accelerated video?20:38
Stskeepsi've only so far seen gles on top of framebuffer on that specific SoC, but at least they're available for glibc..20:39
vgradeharbaum, not yet20:40
RaYmAnI guess given the nature of the manufacturer, getting hardware accelerated is just a matter of time?20:42
Stskeepsthe existence of framebuffer only gles drivers does make me wonder if you can get something useful going with directfb20:42
harbaumcan qt use gles over framebuffer?20:43
Stskeepssure20:43
Stskeepsbut multiprocess is naturally difficult20:43
harbaumsince gl calls would bypass everything?20:44
Stskeepsyou'd need some kind of meditation at least, yeah20:45
Stskeepsbut normally you only want to do full screen and not do gles when in background20:45
harbaumin ux like nemo/maemo they also run minimzed20:47
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harbaumunder x this is the job of egl?20:48
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Stskeepsyeah, generally we try to drop the gl context when minimizd20:49
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harbaum"we"? which ordinary gles application does that?20:51
harbaumin the end ypu'd likely want to be able to run them unmodified20:51
Crnkojuhm guys probably a stupid question but is mer little or big endian ?20:51
harbaumdepends on your cpu20:52
Crnkojtegra220:52
StskeepsCrnkoj: little endian20:52
Crnkojthank you20:52
Stskeepson arm20:52
Stskeepsharbaum: we have hacks for doing so in qt, at least20:53
Stskeepsanyhow20:53
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Stskeepssleep time20:53
harbaumsure, but what about my gles based plattform game?20:53
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Stskeepsyeah, good point20:53
Stskeepsin egl+x11 it usually either renders into an off screen buffer or the framebuffer20:54
CrnkojStskeeps,  might you ahve an ide why i get this error cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-mno-unaligned-access" when i try to crosscompile the kernel on my pc with this option make -j9 ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=armv7a-unknown-linux-gnueabi- zImage ?20:55
Crnkojan idea*20:55
Crnkojthe thing is when i crosscompile kernels for the pandaboard with the same option it works like a charm20:55
StskeepsCrnkoj: -mno-unaligned-access doesn't exist in some compilers and is needed for those it doesn't20:55
Stskeepsthere's a patch in thee kernels20:55
CrnkojStskeeps, what do you mean with that there is pacth in the kernels ?20:56
Stskeepsas in grep the source and you'll see the problem20:57
CrnkojStskeeps, is it dependand on the gcc version or jsut the sitron one is using ?20:57
CrnkojStskeeps, i get this error (fully) http://pastebin.com/pX8YNE0120:57
Crnkojsitron=distro (lol)20:57
Stskeepsgrep the source20:58
Stskeeps:P20:58
Crnkojgrep the source for what20:58
Crnkojfor the error20:58
Crnkoj?20:58
Stskeepsmno-unaligned-access20:58
Stskeepsbbl20:58
Crnkojwhich part of the source20:58
Crnkojhmm20:58
CrnkojStskeeps, aha ok got it out fo the Makefile,s eems to compile now21:03
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vgradeCrnkoj, yea you only need that option if you are using the latest Mer gcc21:04
Crnkojah21:05
Crnkojah you are back vgrade21:06
Crnkojye i got another issue21:06
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nsuffysgood night +++21:58
lbto/21:58
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KhaledStskeeps: I cant make anything from the videos, are there clear screenshots from a device running nemo ?22:27
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ali1234is the spark tablet going to ship with mer powering the plasma active? or does it use something else?22:40
lbtit uses mer22:42
ali1234awesome22:42
lbtindeed22:42
* lbt is going down bloody system rabbitholes ... you C hackers don't know how easy you have it22:44
ali1234meaning?22:45
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lbttrying to install a img system22:46
lbtneeds a new qemu22:46
lbtnone available22:46
lbtbuilding one needs a new glibc22:46
lbtputting it on a new suse worker means deploying nfs22:47
lbtor running httpd on the worker22:47
lbtMer SDK solution isn't ready22:47
lbtand needs nested kvm22:47
lbtwhich means a phost reboot22:47
lbtand I have no remote console22:47
lbtevery way I turn is a new blocker... grrr22:47
ali1234i see what you mean22:48
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Netweaver_Ali1234: Hi, can I ask a favour ?23:47
ali1234depends what it is?23:48
Netweaver_I know you've written/enabled the first uboot+PR13, together with Carsten. Now Pali has been creating a newer version of u-boot but that one doesn't work with the Nemo kernel on N900. It has mmc init/read issues. Is there a possibility you could also have a look at Pali's code, to see where the problem might be ?23:50
ali1234ah yes23:51
ali1234it's based on newer u-boot right?23:51
Netweaver_yes23:51
ali1234what point does the kernel fail?23:51
Netweaver_I remember he even took some code from a 3.0.0 kernel23:51
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ali1234this is very likely to be a kernel bug23:52
Netweaver_the uboot file is read correctyly and then the errors -110 start, reading every sector23:52
ali1234so what is the kernel output?23:52
Netweaver_problem with that is, why does it work with your u-boot ? Same kernel ?23:53
ali1234because i was very careful not to touch any hardware at all23:53
ali1234because the kernel doesn't set it up properly23:53
ali1234it expects the bootloader to do that23:53
ali1234so anything that you touch in u-boot has to be put back before starting the kernel23:53
Netweaver_I've created a bug report in the Nemo bug system, it has lots of info and links : https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9223:54
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Netweaver_I tried 2 kernel patches I collected from other kernels but no luck23:54
ali1234this is what you need to do23:55
ali1234patch the kernel to dump the MMC registers23:55
ali1234then boot that with both u-boot versions and see what the difference is23:55
ali1234do it before mmc init, in the early board init23:56
ali1234before the kernel touches it23:56
ali1234alternatively, do it in u-boot23:56
ali1234before even loading the kernel23:56
ali1234note that the u-boot has totally different arm code including the mmc driver and it is probably trashing some register23:57
ali1234the new u-boot23:57
ali1234ultimately this is a kernel bug though23:57
Netweaver_ok ... Any pointer where I could start? I've never done any uboot programming :) I know the new code has the generic mmc code, obviously not that good23:57
ali1234just get the omap datasheet and read how to do a full reset on the mmc controller, and then do that in init23:57
ali1234where is the nemo n900 kernel developed?23:58
ali1234nemomobile.org just redirects to mer :/23:58
Netweaver_let me get you the link ...23:59

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