| Khaled | so right now the only known devices running mer based devices are cordia and spark? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| vgrade | n900, n950, advent vega, povi tablet, pandaboard, beagleboard, raspberry pi, tranformer, ideapad, dell XT are all running various UI's on top of mer | 00:05 |
| vgrade | oh, and N9 | 00:05 |
| vgrade | and Exopc | 00:06 |
| vgrade | http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace | 00:06 |
| vgrade | and trimslice | 00:07 |
| smoku | vgrade: how redistributable are Tegra2 drivers? | 00:07 |
| smoku | trimslice only? | 00:08 |
| Khaled | n9?? | 00:12 |
| Khaled | it is not meego even | 00:13 |
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| vgrade | I never got any license information with the hardfp drivers but the softfp ones with the l4tegra are redistributable | 00:16 |
| smoku | vgrade: you mean http://developer.nvidia.com/linux-tegra ? | 00:17 |
| vgrade | yes | 00:17 |
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| vgrade | Khaled, we have nemo running on Mer on N9 | 00:18 |
| smoku | ok. I can just stick with armv7l Mer | 00:18 |
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| Khaled | vgrade: can u give me any info on nemomobile like irc or how to contribute? | 00:19 |
| vgrade | smoku, there was a release just before xmas but I've not had chance to look at that | 00:19 |
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| Khaled | I only saw plasmaactive and I dislike kde in general so want to know about nemo mobile | 00:19 |
| smoku | Khaled: there is Nemo dedicated channel #nemomobile | 00:19 |
| vgrade | smoku, not sure if they released bith hard and softfp but as you say its does not matter now with Mer | 00:19 |
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| vgrade | Khaled, also http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Nemo#Nemo_Mobile | 00:20 |
| smoku | vgrade: is the performance difference noticable? | 00:20 |
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| vgrade | cxl000, did some benchmarks but I forget the results. linaro also did some extensive tests which showed a moxed bag of results | 00:21 |
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| smoku | so, nothing really worth killing for? ;-) | 00:22 |
| vgrade | smoku, don't think so but I would still like to see a back to back comparison of a UX in action | 00:26 |
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| Khaled | vgrade: so if lipstick is not part of mer what is mer's official ui builder? | 00:46 |
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| wmarone_ | Khaled: you can use qt creator, seeing as how Mer focuses on Qt | 00:49 |
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| james_shan | hello everybody | 00:54 |
| vgrade | hi james_shan | 00:54 |
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| james_shan | I want to ask Mer, OS Download | 00:56 |
| vgrade | james_shan, ? | 00:57 |
| james_shan | I do not speak English | 00:58 |
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| james_shan | I say may not be standard Google web translation | 00:59 |
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| james_shan | There is no Mer time be loaded with address | 01:01 |
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| cxl000 | vgrade softfp/hardfp performance testing went to the back of the queue when I hit the egl context problem on the trimslice | 01:50 |
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| vgrade | cxl000, did you try the November SDK? | 01:54 |
| cxl000 | Not yet. I have slowly been working through compile failures for the 2.01 kernel | 01:56 |
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| Khaled | is there a blog for updates on mer? | 02:36 |
| Khaled | like the status of the sdk? | 02:36 |
| beford | mail list is the best thing I believe | 02:57 |
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| wmarone_ | heh | 04:05 |
| wmarone_ | that nookboot image is using a 2.6.29 kernel | 04:05 |
| wmarone_ | which is based on the first nook color kernel | 04:05 |
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| wmarone_ | well that explains why I couldn't find any info on the wifi | 04:13 |
| wmarone_ | with 2.6.29 it was built completely outside the kernel, and they put the .ko up in @#$%$#@%4 /etc/wifi | 04:13 |
| wmarone_ | next to the firmware | 04:14 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 05:43 |
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| _av500_ | wmarone_: yes, it used to be outside of the kernel | 05:49 |
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| wmarone_ | _av500_: but with 2.6.32 it's sorta in/sorta out | 05:49 |
| wmarone_ | still not clear on what they're doing | 05:50 |
| wmarone_ | but I'm heading to bed in a few mins, nothing more to do now | 05:50 |
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| dm8tbr | it's TI stuff, they probably don't know themselves... | 06:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-renesaselectronics-idUSTRE8161VN20120207 | 06:02 |
| Stskeeps | (thanks to Alison_Chaiken) | 06:03 |
| dm8tbr | hmmm interesting | 06:03 |
| dm8tbr | next STE will fold... | 06:04 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Stskeeps, think those companies are in trouble? | 06:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Seems like Panasonic and Fujitsu weren't that important players anyway. | 06:07 |
| Alison_Chaiken | STE was already, what, Thomson and Siemens together? | 06:07 |
| Stskeeps | STE = ST-Ericsson, not sure what the ST stands for :) | 06:08 |
| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: well, they could become stronger, renesas has an entire mobile modem business too, think qualcomm mobile board competitor :P | 06:08 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | I remember Thomson CSF got folded in. | 06:09 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Yeah, Renesas seems pretty strong. QNX is the one whose future I wonder about. | 06:09 |
| Stskeeps | saw that BB10 is practically a Qt OS? | 06:09 |
| Alison_Chaiken | QNX has big market share in automotive I've been working on, but consider the Symbian parallel. | 06:09 |
| Stskeeps | blackberry, that is | 06:09 |
| Alison_Chaiken | QNX is a weird griffalo: part NetBSD, part Linux, part Dr. Seuss. | 06:10 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, it's a microkernel and a bit weird at that :) | 06:10 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Seems like they're emphasizing HTML5 too. | 06:10 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAKu0aVBHgQ <- QML based, though with a scenegraph like renderer in the backend + improvements | 06:11 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Heard from a guy at Lab126 who would know that cache coherency handling is much easier if each core runs its own kernel. | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'm kind of curious to see how linux will deal with big.little ARM setup | 06:12 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Chromeless tiles in that vid look like WinPho to me! | 06:13 |
| Alison_Chaiken | 10 PM here. Time for me to head back to the barn. | 06:13 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: what was the status of http://review.merproject.org/#change,360 ? | 06:42 |
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| Sage | sr | 06:44 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: it needs systemd newer than we have | 06:45 |
| Stskeeps | aok | 06:45 |
| Sage | and the newer systemd slows down the boot a lot | 06:45 |
| * Stskeeps adds as comment | 06:45 | |
| * Sage though he did | 06:46 | |
| Stskeeps | ah | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just blind | 06:46 |
| Sage | apparently not | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | i have mer arm building with autoconf/automake acceleration now btw | 06:46 |
| Sage | nice | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | so autoconf no longer takes 600% more time ;) | 06:47 |
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| Cenobyte_ | anybody here? | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | yup, good morning | 07:03 |
| Stskeeps | so what brings you here? | 07:04 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: any of the currently failing changes i should make a priority to merge? | 07:04 |
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| Stskeeps | good morning sonach | 07:08 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: good morning:) | 07:09 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114 -> make it 40 instead? | 07:10 |
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| Cenobyte_ | Oh hello | 07:11 |
| Cenobyte_ | I am here to find out more about Mer | 07:12 |
| Cenobyte_ | hopefully... | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, well you came to the right place then - got any specific questions? | 07:12 |
| Cenobyte_ | First of all, is there a working Mer for the Nokia n800? | 07:13 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: Can NFS work on Mer? | 07:14 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: After ifconfig successfully, when "mount -o nolock 192.168.188.16:/home/zhanghui/nfs /mnt", it fails, | 07:14 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: it should, but i don't think we include the tools for it out of box | 07:15 |
| Stskeeps | ie, no portmap and so on | 07:15 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Method_2:_NFS-Root_with_custom_kernel is one way to do it from kernel side | 07:15 |
| Stskeeps | (use that as inspiration) | 07:16 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: ah,yes,portmap... OK, I will check the link, | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/N8x0 | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: we have a ARMv6+VFP port | 07:16 |
| ighea | and you are saying it's usable now? | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | for varying degrees of usable | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | see the page | 07:18 |
| Stskeeps | and videos | 07:18 |
| Cenobyte_ | That's cooiol | 07:22 |
| Cenobyte_ | *cool | 07:22 |
| Cenobyte_ | My next question is does Wifi work? | 07:23 |
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| Cenobyte_ | and is it as good as Maemo? | 07:24 |
| Stskeeps | mer's more like a core, so people put a UI on top and a hardware adaptation | 07:24 |
| Stskeeps | maemo is a productized system, bit hard to compare :) | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | try it out instead and make up your own opinion | 07:25 |
| Cenobyte_ | sounds fair | 07:25 |
| Cenobyte_ | can it work with IceWM? | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | if you put it on top, i guess | 07:25 |
| Cenobyte_ | what is common to put on top? | 07:26 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: The link you gave seems to mount mer-rootfs in vendor's rootfs. My question is, In Mer, by way of NFS to access files on PC, | 07:26 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: ah, no, the link i'm having boots entire file system over nfs | 07:26 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: by using kernel command line | 07:27 |
| Cenobyte_ | so does wirless networking work? | 07:28 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: So, what packages should be added in order for Mer to support NFS? | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: the page should say | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: i'm looking at that now | 07:28 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: I just have added net-tools, you talked of portmap, any other utilities? | 07:29 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: usbutils | 07:31 |
| Cenobyte_ | What i suspect is that one needs non-free software to get the wifi to work, is that so? | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: you need firmware yes | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | but not closed kernel module i think | 07:32 |
| Cenobyte_ | Supposedly Mer is all open source | 07:32 |
| Cenobyte_ | so it's open source firmware? | 07:32 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: itsjould apply fine after the small udev patch you already merhed | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: OK, so, Mer is all open source, hardware adaptations and UIs are strictly outside the project | 07:32 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: so hardware adaptations may contain closed bits | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | or require them | 07:33 |
| Cenobyte_ | ok so you would not know where to get those pieces? | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | Cenobyte_: the page would list those, or they're in the n8x0's file system | 07:33 |
| Cenobyte_ | how would you say mer compares to Debian? | 07:35 |
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| Stskeeps | sonach: i'll first have time to look at this later today, but nfs-utils, krb5, libnfsidmap, libtirpc, quota, rpcbind | 07:36 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: i will try the systemd 40 soon but will not make to thos release | 07:36 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: ok | 07:36 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: it sounds like something we ought to have to have as part of mer tools for development | 07:37 |
| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: I got an OBS account yesterday. When I test the qt-gstreamer against with MER, I got the "unresolvable: nothing provides automoc4". Mer does't offer this tool ? | 07:38 |
| Stskeeps | ZiQiangHuan: nop, not part of mer, but it does exist for mer -- you can perhaps copy it from https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=automoc4&project=CE%3AMW%3AShared | 07:39 |
| Stskeeps | ZiQiangHuan: http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/mindmap/OBS.html might be useful for you as well, it's a mindmap of OBS concepts | 07:40 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: OK, NFS is not an emerging thing, we can solve it later. | 07:40 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: i'm thinking to pull out my harddisk from my media center too, so NFS will be useful for me too eventually ;) | 07:41 |
| Stskeeps | sonach: if you can file a severity=task bug on bugs.merproject.org so we remember NFS is a good thing to have, that'd be good | 07:42 |
| Stskeeps | then we don't forget | 07:42 |
| Cenobyte_ | ok well thanks for the info | 07:43 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: thanks, the page for OBS is very useful | 07:44 |
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| Stskeeps | ZiQiangHuan: it's a 'open source' mindmap too, so if you have 'freemind' program, you add to the map by downloading .mm file instead of .html | 07:45 |
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| Stskeeps | for your own personal notes | 07:46 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: Ok, thanks | 07:49 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: How can I copy automoc4 for my qt-gstreamer project ? Maybe I'm not familar with OBS. | 07:56 |
| sonach | Stskeeps: It is a good way to file a bug. I will do that soon. | 07:59 |
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| Stskeeps | ZiQiangHuan: i think it's best you get the 'osc' command line client, easier than the web interface to do things with | 08:02 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: I got osc in my ubuntu 10.10 | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 08:06 |
| Stskeeps | then osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com copypac CE:MW:Shared automoc4 your-project | 08:06 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: It has been built successfully. | 08:28 |
| Stskeeps | good :) | 08:28 |
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| lbt_ | morning all | 08:49 |
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| * Stskeeps has to head out for some allergy test, bbl | 08:50 | |
| lbt | o/ | 08:51 |
| lbt | btw ... no nfs-utils in core I hope | 08:52 |
| lbt | samba/cifs if anything | 08:52 |
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| sonach | Stskeeps: Feb 9th's release is the low-footprint release? Or only busybox can do help to low-footprint? | 09:05 |
| Sage | lower than before at least :) | 09:05 |
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| sonach | Sage: OK. I will try it as soon as it is released:) | 09:06 |
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| Sage | AFAIK the busybox is not ready for release yet | 09:07 |
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| lbt | hey phaeron | 09:39 |
| lbt | would you care to help out with our obs git->package today? see if we can find ScriptRipper too | 09:40 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: When I use "osc build --no-verify Mer_Core_armv7l armv7el" in my ubuntu10.10, can it work ? Now I see messages like http://pastie.org/3340221 | 09:55 |
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| lbt | ZiQiangHuan: yes, that should work - it needs you to have the correct qemu though (and 10,10 is very old) | 10:38 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: you mean qemu-arm-static ? | 10:39 |
| lbt | yes - I need to check which qemu package is needed | 10:40 |
| lbt | where are you getting that? | 10:42 |
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| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: I got it from http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qemu-arm-static | 10:45 |
| lbt | OK - you'll have to check with Stskeeps then | 10:46 |
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| lbt | ZiQiangHuan: have you looked on the meego wiki and the mer wiki ? | 10:47 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: not yet. | 10:48 |
| lbt | OK - try that | 10:48 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: I'll look at the wiki | 10:49 |
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| lbt | vgrade: seriously.... http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Commands ?? | 10:54 |
| lbt | ZiQiangHuan: where did you get the link for http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/qemu-arm-static ? | 10:59 |
| lbt | that's a very old binary and we should remove that from any documentation | 10:59 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: very old binary ? | 11:01 |
| lbt | apparently | 11:01 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: I can't find any usefull message on the wiki | 11:01 |
| lbt | ZiQiangHuan: yes ... this is an area we are changing this week | 11:01 |
| lbt | Mer will use a platform SDK which will have qemu inside it | 11:02 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: that will be nice | 11:02 |
| lbt | yeah .... otherwise we have to support ubunutu 10.10, 11.04, 11.10, 12.04, Debian 5, 6, Fedora 14 15 etc etc | 11:02 |
| lbt | the latest meego qemu should work | 11:03 |
| ZiQiangHuan | lbt: But now where can I get a suitable qemu ? | 11:03 |
| lbt | yeah, looking, the problem is that I installed this *ages* ago and it "just works" :) | 11:04 |
| lbt | so you forget how to install some things if you haven't done it for a while | 11:04 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: http://review.merproject.org/#change,349 should be included to next core. | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | okay, but udev fails? | 11:32 |
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| Stskeeps | doesn't it rely on the udev that relies on more new systemd? | 11:32 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: no, the patch for the udev failure was accepted already | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:33 |
| Sage | the udev that is pending is new thing | 11:33 |
| Sage | http://review.merproject.org/#change,362 | 11:33 |
| Sage | ^ that should fix that udev thing | 11:33 |
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| Stskeeps | you have v005-0-g90d...tar.gz | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | is that incremental? | 11:33 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: the version is 005 | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | ok, and it's from a upstream git or how is it? | 11:34 |
| Sage | the rest in filename is just the git sha | 11:34 |
| Sage | yes, it was taken from upstream | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | usually it's good to have some kind of incremental number before sha | 11:35 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: http://lwn.net/Articles/464178/ | 11:35 |
| Sage | With kernel.org file upload still not fully working, please use the | 11:35 |
| Sage | github link below to get a tarball if you need/want it. | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:35 |
| Sage | so I took straight from github website tag link that gave that package | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | Bostik: did you spot qt-project set up a discussion list for releasing/packaging? | 11:37 |
| Bostik | oh? | 11:37 |
| Bostik | haven't had the time to keep up lately | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/releasing | 11:37 |
| Bostik | thank you | 11:38 |
| ZiQiangHuan | Stskeeps: Is there a suitable qemu binary for my Ubuntu10.10 ? | 11:48 |
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| timoph | it's fairly easy to compile | 11:51 |
| ZiQiangHuan | timoph: If there isn't a suitable binary available, maybe I will try to compile myself. | 11:53 |
| timoph | I have it configured like this (iirc): ./configure --prefix=$HOME/bin --targets-list=linux-arm-user | 11:54 |
| timoph | so it's installed under my home dir and just the arm stuff | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | if you can wait a day, it'll be provided nicely from mer side | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:54 |
| timoph | :) | 11:54 |
| lbt | FYI Bug triage in 5mins in #mer-meeting | 11:55 |
| * timoph tries to follow it while working.. | 11:57 | |
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| lbt | nb ... add versioning issue to release blocker? ... discuss post triage | 12:07 |
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| lbt | phaeron: ping | 12:59 |
| lbt | cool http://review.merproject.org/#change,380 is ready | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: nitpick: * in front of the date | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | i merged it already though | 13:04 |
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| lbt | thanks - I'll curse me later when I have to parse the changelogs | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:06 |
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| lbt | and emacs has a changelog mode for debian, not rpm :) | 13:07 |
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| Cwalle | lbt: i doubt which file system actually is while i got the rootfs directory before i use it | 13:16 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: without me having to dig .. where does our ci obs publish to per-build? | 13:17 |
| lbt | Cwalle: parsing error :) | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: it doesn't at the moment, i pull using tools/createrelease | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | that's one part that ought to be changed | 13:18 |
| lbt | OK ... IMG needs to access it | 13:18 |
| Cwalle | i mean could i just compress the rootfs directory and use it | 13:18 |
| lbt | yes | 13:19 |
| lbt | you just put the rootfs directory in a compressed filesystem image | 13:19 |
| Cwalle | and what root file type should i point out to the kernel | 13:19 |
| Cwalle | i have seen a script which used to generate the android rootfs, and it just used the ‘tar cf’ compressed the whole content | 13:22 |
| Cwalle | at last step | 13:23 |
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| lbt | Cwalle: that sounds right | 13:28 |
| lbt | typically you make a filesystem on a block device or file, then you loop mount it and copy the rootfs to it using tar, cp etc | 13:29 |
| Cwalle | lbt: i did not see any command about yaffs2,but it says that is a yaffs2 file | 13:30 |
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| Cwalle | lbt:so, i can just 'tar cf mer-rootfs *.tar' and ues this tar file as a yaffs2 filesystem? | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: can you take a task for upgrading libpng? | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: our current version is exploit heaven | 13:35 |
| lbt | Cwalle: no | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: also libpng in later versions has NEON optimizations | 13:35 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: sure | 13:36 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: if there is bug assing to me | 13:36 |
| lbt | Cwalle: you need to make a filesystem on a device | 13:36 |
| lbt | then untar the tarball onto it | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: that doesn't really apply for flash based systems.. | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:37 |
| Cwalle | lbt: thera are SD care and nand flash on my s3c6410 board | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | Cwalle: i'd recommend you to start with testing from sd card | 13:37 |
| Cwalle | Stskeeps: yes, that's what i do now | 13:38 |
| lbt | where a block device can be a loopback image which you then install onto the flash | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: not correct, can i recommend you to read up on MTDs? | 13:38 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/general.html#L_ext2_mtd | 13:39 |
| lbt | OK | 13:39 |
| lbt | on the wiki? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | just hw adaptation stuff that you learn along the way | 13:40 |
| Cwalle | Oo...i am confused now! | 13:40 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/rdiff?opackage=libpng&oproject=Mer%3Afake%3ACore%3Aarmv7l&package=libpng&project=home%3Asage%3Abranches%3AMer%3Afake%3ACore%3Aarmv7l&rev=2 | 13:47 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: done ;) | 13:47 |
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| Stskeeps | shipit? | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: in order not to regress, http://sourceforge.net/projects/libpng-apng/files/ ? | 13:49 |
| Sage | ah | 13:51 |
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| Sage | done | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | show me new diff? | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | or is it on gitorious already | 13:57 |
| Sage | http://review.merproject.org/#change,387 | 13:57 |
| Sage | hmmp... fedora doesn't have the apng patch | 13:57 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation_Guide/Step_by_step#Flashing_your_device | 14:03 |
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| Stskeeps | ok | 14:04 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: BTW, as a heads up: after i've gotten next release out the door, i'll default mer mesa to llvmpipe | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | so we need to work out a solution so you can choose 'intel' mesa gles/egl | 14:10 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: ok | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | then we can give people virtual machines for mer quite easily | 14:11 |
| Sage | :nod: | 14:12 |
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| Stskeeps | http://blogs.kde.org/node/4533 <- good read | 14:24 |
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| Stskeeps | smoku: i'm looking at cross compilation tools and such.. is there any specific things in the GNOME stack you'd typically want to have run as x86? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | that are damn slow in qemu | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | i honestly thought we would have hit 400 mer packages by now | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | that's maybe a good thing we haven't | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:36 |
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| smoku | Stskeeps: possibly gobject-introspection stuff, but you do not provide it anyway | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | that's also a bit problematic due to the very intense mix with arm libraries | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if vala would be a candidate | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | smoku: as an example, we now accelerate autoconf/automake/autoreconf, so that is heaps faster now | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | 30s qemu, 2s with sb2 | 14:40 |
| smoku | valac is pretty light. the heavy lifting is done by gcc | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 14:41 |
| smoku | anyway, devs shouldn't distribute sources requiring valac | 14:41 |
| smoku | translated c-files should be in sources, so valac is not required for simple build | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 14:42 |
| lbt | really? | 14:42 |
| * Stskeeps kicks qtwebkit | 14:43 | |
| Stskeeps | why you break | 14:43 |
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| smoku | phaeron was kicking with webkitgtk3 also... ;-) | 14:49 |
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| Stskeeps | it does surprise me a little bit that cordia seems the only really mobile focused gnome effort these days | 14:54 |
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| smoku | I suspect some Big-Reveal in area around Gnome Shell | 14:58 |
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| slaine | Our Dawati friends are working pretty hard, I suspect a big reveal around that too. | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | dawati is probably tizen netbook continuation, tbh | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | it says it right on the web page | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | good morning Khaled | 15:00 |
| Khaled | Stskeeps: morning, how r u today? | 15:00 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: yeah, no surprises there. | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: i'm good, things are working | 15:01 |
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| Khaled | u know we need a blog updated daily | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | we have a blog infrastructure in works | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | we can't use stuff like blogspot as this is blocked in markets that would be very interested in mer | 15:03 |
| chouchoune | Stskeeps: what do you mean by infrastructure ? | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | chouchoune: as in simple blog setup on our mer infra | 15:04 |
| Khaled | maybe tumblr as it can look great also | 15:04 |
| chouchoune | everyone would be able to create a blog on "Mer-blogs" ? | 15:04 |
| chouchoune | Stskeeps: ok ;) | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China , so, no | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:05 |
| Khaled | Stskeeps: but do u care about china so much this is a global project | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: i care about that people are able to access the content and learn about mer, so, exactly because it's global, it should be accessible everywhere :) | 15:07 |
| Khaled | it doesn't make any sense that china is blocking all these stuff, control freaks | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | it probably doesn't, but let's leave world politics out of this place :) | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | back to the facts, that means we maintain our own blogging infrastructure | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | which is good as we only rely on our own | 15:08 |
| Khaled | so you will make one yourselves? | 15:09 |
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| Stskeeps | probably just install a off the shelf one | 15:09 |
| chouchoune | Stskeeps: wouldn't a kind of aggregator be OK for that use ? Aggregating blogs posts from anywhere and replicating it on Mer's website | 15:10 |
| chouchoune | a kind of "planet Mer" | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | mm, maybe | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | though you usually want to read more, too | 15:11 |
| chouchoune | yes, it should be possible to read everything from the Mer infrastructure | 15:12 |
| Khaled | I dont know this all sounds very time consuming | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: making good things is time consuming :) | 15:13 |
| Khaled | Stskeeps: touché | 15:13 |
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| vgrade | Khaled, did you find any nemo screenshots? | 15:14 |
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| vgrade | Sage, is your FOSDEM presentation online? | 15:14 |
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| Khaled | vgrade: no | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/user/nsuffys?blend=1&ob=0 | 15:16 |
| Khaled | vgrade: I am still looking for something innovative like the n9 ui | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | has a bunch of videos | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | some old | 15:16 |
| Khaled | al the ui projects right now are all the same to me | 15:16 |
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| Khaled | vgrade: u told yesterday to ping someone about nemomobile who? | 15:17 |
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| nsuffys | hello :) | 15:18 |
| vgrade | Khaled, I asked Sage above for the presentation | 15:18 |
| vgrade | nsuffys, hi | 15:18 |
| nsuffys | how are you ? | 15:18 |
| Khaled | vgrade: did he give anything? | 15:18 |
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| Stskeeps | http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo | 15:19 |
| nsuffys | wow, new plasma-active-testing-mer-usb, i download it now ! | 15:19 |
| vgrade | Khaled, not yet, but I'm sure he will respond when he see's | 15:19 |
| Khaled | everyone on the mer project should get an n9 | 15:20 |
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| Stskeeps | Khaled: many of us do have one :P | 15:21 |
| Khaled | well I actually want to get one cz its just awesome | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: view these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnXLB0 , and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-GXO_urMow (narrated version of the last movie) | 15:22 |
| nsuffys | vgrade: not planned to make a live usb of plasma active ? new info about the pre-order of SparK ? :) | 15:23 |
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| Khaled | I saw all of that last year, in fact I had a presentation about the future and brought these videos | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | alright, but you didn't see the two last ones, they're brand new | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:24 |
| Khaled | it is really a clear vision of the future | 15:24 |
| Khaled | yeah watching now | 15:24 |
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| Khaled | let me just tweet it | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | that's a world where Mer fits very well into, is my own personal belief | 15:33 |
| Khaled | Was just gonna say this needs rock solid core | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | because i don't believe you can build such a world successfully with a walled garden or a non-open system | 15:34 |
| Khaled | I love how they made technology as a tool instead of being so immersive,that is my goal | 15:34 |
| Khaled | yeah pretty much | 15:34 |
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| phaeron | I just wish human interaction with technology would be beyond a finger or two | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | we've already grown beyond that, how many times have you kicked your computer? ;) | 15:41 |
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| phaeron | sane answer is never , but astonishingly it's not the answer I have :D | 15:42 |
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| slaine | I tend to play fists of fury with my screens | 15:45 |
| Khaled | there is only one problem about the future | 15:46 |
| phaeron | http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ | 15:46 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo tsdedst & Crnkoj | 15:54 |
| Crnkoj | hey | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | hey :) so what brings you here? | 15:54 |
| Crnkoj | heh, we are trying to get meego to boot on an atrix phone, from a sdcard | 15:54 |
| Crnkoj | tsdedst and me | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | what SoC is that? | 15:54 |
| Crnkoj | tegra2 | 15:55 |
| Crnkoj | discussing the bootargs now | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | ah, should be possible | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | use Mer and armv7l port | 15:55 |
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| Stskeeps | what kernel version? | 15:55 |
| Crnkoj | we are looking at vgrades notes | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | and the meego tegra2 page | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | http://images.formeego.org/tegra2/ | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | i was talking to vgrade some time ago about it he suggested the core version from there | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | sadly its 2.6.39 | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | erm | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | 2.6.32 | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | 39 was a typo | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | 2.6.32.9 | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | ok, you'll probably need to backport some patches | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | but ok | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | or well 2.6.32.50 is now the latest community android kernel | 15:56 |
| Crnkoj | ye its bad, motorola is poor with support for new kernels ... | 15:57 |
| Crnkoj | one guy is trying to port the kernel/drivers to .39 for it | 15:57 |
| Crnkoj | but no word on it yet | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | aftermarket adaptation is always a nightmare | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | we had people in our team who worked in the original n900 team yet we had significant difficulties | 15:58 |
| Crnkoj | yes true, but i find it annoying how the oem close source evreything =/ and dont update stuff | 15:58 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, why so ? | 15:58 |
| Crnkoj | oh nvm reread your statement | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | because it often takes a long time to translate things across kernel versions | 15:58 |
| Crnkoj | ye i get that, i kinda read it first as if you guys had different opinions on stuff :) | 15:58 |
| Crnkoj | anyhow what is the take on the 3.3 kernel having "android drivers" in the mainline again | 15:59 |
| Crnkoj | with mer/meego i mean | 15:59 |
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| Stskeeps | it really isn't that bad | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | it's just a different way of doing things, from userland POV you just have to disable some things | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | the problem is userland drivers | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | like GLES | 15:59 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 15:59 |
| Crnkoj | we all want GLES ^ ^ | 16:00 |
| Crnkoj | i have a n9 aswell | 16:00 |
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| Crnkoj | such a lovely phone | 16:00 |
| Crnkoj | i saw they said pr1.3 might come end of the month for it | 16:01 |
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| Crnkoj | gogled a bit for mer for the n9 around but havent seen anything more "end user friendly" | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: we have an adaptation in Nemo but the problem is there's no official way to flash the base OS back | 16:03 |
| Crnkoj | oh my | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | well, there's unofficial | 16:03 |
| Crnkoj | but unofficial way to get back to stock? :) | 16:03 |
| Crnkoj | hya | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | long story :) | 16:03 |
| Crnkoj | aha | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | but touching mer on n9 or anything else voids your warranty | 16:03 |
| Crnkoj | Nemo works nice on it ? | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | it's quite fast, yeah | 16:04 |
| Crnkoj | ah ye | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | 2.6.32 too | 16:04 |
| Khaled | dont want to interrupt but why dont u focus on the galaxy nexus? | 16:04 |
| Crnkoj | better than pr1.2 ? | 16:04 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, who now ? | 16:04 |
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| Stskeeps | Khaled: [16:57] <Stskeeps> aftermarket adaptation is always a nightmare | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | that's why | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:04 |
| Khaled | yeah it sucks to port to something already being used | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, i've done my fair share | 16:05 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, one thing, i have a n9 64 without a receit (got it from ebay), is there a way of getting warranty directly from nokia IMEI based (i know motorola has that for isntance) | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: i don't know, sorry | 16:05 |
| Crnkoj | ah no problem | 16:05 |
| Crnkoj | you know what meego/mer woudl really need, is a dalvik vm | 16:05 |
| Crnkoj | so that people could use android apps on it | 16:05 |
| Khaled | nooo | 16:05 |
| Crnkoj | the only thing that makes me still not love the n9 the most is the minor lack of apps | 16:05 |
| Khaled | android apps are not that good trust me I am a user | 16:06 |
| chouchoune | Stskeeps: is there a documented way doing the unofficial method to flash the N9 with Nemo ? | 16:06 |
| vgrade | http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/09/openmobiles-acl-brings-250000-android-apps-meego/ | 16:06 |
| Khaled | only ios apps are good | 16:06 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, i know i have android too, but some are just good | 16:06 |
| Khaled | yeah some but not all and it is still a virtual machine | 16:06 |
| Crnkoj | for instance some weather or keyboard apps | 16:06 |
| Crnkoj | i know | 16:06 |
| Khaled | well we need an app sdk that rivals apple's | 16:07 |
| Khaled | cz thats the high water mark now | 16:07 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, very nice, but still no timeframe on it, or ? | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: i'm still pissed at the fact someone at canonical got dalvik+android apps working on top of standard glibc years ago and didn't release source because of 'philosophical difficulties with android's openness' | 16:08 |
| Crnkoj | i ahve to be honest i woudl pay some money for that | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: just imagine how the world would look like now | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:08 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, i assume nokia would do mroe meego stuff :) | 16:08 |
| Crnkoj | more | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | \o/ | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | qtwebkit 2.2.1 built | 16:08 |
| Crnkoj | ? | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | working on Mer while we talk | 16:09 |
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| Crnkoj | ah ok :) | 16:09 |
| Crnkoj | man i was looking meego/mer for pandaboard (omap4460) | 16:09 |
| chouchoune | Stskeeps: your multitasking is quite efficient | 16:09 |
| Crnkoj | found a page on how to, yet only a weird zombie way to get pvr to work with ubuntu boot | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: got a pandaboard? | 16:11 |
| Crnkoj | yes | 16:11 |
| Crnkoj | running gentoo on it now | 16:11 |
| Crnkoj | hardfloat | 16:11 |
| Crnkoj | sadly with omapfb instead of pvr | 16:11 |
| Crnkoj | since the hardfloat pvr driver isnt really accesible yet | 16:12 |
| Crnkoj | the ubuntu guys apparently ahve it, but havent released it yet | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | i would like to try meego | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | mer has both softfp and hardfp | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | don't bother with meego | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | pvr drivers ? | 16:13 |
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| Crnkoj | i mean mer | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | no, just builds | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | (i keep using meego for mer) | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | pvr drivers you can use ubuntu deliverables | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | ah ye | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | hmm ye i saw that | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | as they're sotfp | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | and not the zombie way | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:13 |
| Crnkoj | ah | 16:14 |
| Crnkoj | i woudl prefer hardfp | 16:14 |
| Crnkoj | its faster | 16:14 |
| Crnkoj | (well honestly thre most i woudl prefer to get gentoo to work well | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 16:14 |
| Crnkoj | with pvr and video playback | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | i would prefer hardfp too but we're not there yet | 16:14 |
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| Crnkoj | ye but i heard they have it | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | soon to be released | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | apparently | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | in the #pandaboard channel | 16:15 |
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| Crnkoj | kinda waiting on that | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | it's really stupid, too, because it's really just a recompile | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | we did it for omap3, n900 | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | ye lol | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | i dont get that | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | nvidia is similar | 16:15 |
| Crnkoj | sorry (was similar) | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | nvidia at least released something | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | i was astonished they were the fist | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | first | 16:16 |
| Crnkoj | well, i was astonished they didnt do it earlier, since they have quite a good linux drivers reputation for their pc cards | 16:16 |
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| Crnkoj | still for the atrix we have this issue with the outdated kernel and no perspective to get a newer one from them | 16:17 |
| Crnkoj | so the nv libs released are uselss for us | 16:17 |
| Khaled | why use an atrix instead of a nexus device? | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | (we hope for lg to release ICS for the optimus 2x - which they "promised" and than use their kernel sources and libs) | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, because i have one :) | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | bought one | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | before i knew the stuff | 16:18 |
| Khaled | but u dont have a nexus ? | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | besides the phone is very appealing like that | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | no have an atrix and a n9 | 16:18 |
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| Khaled | well the galaxy nexus would have much easier | 16:18 |
| Crnkoj | most definitely | 16:18 |
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| Crnkoj | but the gn came almost a year after the atrix or such | 16:19 |
| Khaled | at least it has ics ouside of the fragmantation | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | true | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | but i bought the atrix last feb | 16:19 |
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| Crnkoj | (sort of first dualcore) | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | it has great battery life | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | almost 3 days on average | 16:19 |
| Khaled | yeah and motoblur | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | and it has a fingerprint reader! | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | cm7/9 now :) | 16:19 |
| Crnkoj | cm7 is massively impressive | 16:19 |
| Khaled | i have a motorola defy with cm9 | 16:19 |
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| Khaled | yeah | 16:20 |
| Khaled | have u tried the chrome beta? | 16:20 |
| Crnkoj | cm9 sadly no kernel/libs to support hw (yet) | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | http://review.merproject.org/388 <- reviews welcome for qtwebkit 2.2.1 | 16:20 |
| Khaled | it is not working on cm9 | 16:20 |
| Crnkoj | nah its ics only and i dont have cm9 on it yet | 16:20 |
| Crnkoj | oh | 16:20 |
| Crnkoj | cant try it than O_o | 16:20 |
| Khaled | is qtwebkit sort of like an sdk using html and javascript? | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: qtwebkit is the WebKit engine with qt and it's apis as backend | 16:21 |
| Khaled | so it is used to develop apps or what? | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | it's used for browsers, html5 runtimes, etc | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: http://ariya.blogspot.com/2011/06/your-webkit-port-is-special-just-like.html | 16:22 |
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| Khaled | so what language is mer core build on? | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: all sorts, but i guess primarily C/C++ | 16:26 |
| Khaled | so it is native vs webos for example which is all web stuff | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | brb food | 16:28 |
| Khaled | just saw the new update for ps vita | 16:28 |
| Crnkoj | hey guys about meego on the atrix, tsdedst made a custom boot.img with boot args to boot frmo the meego p1 partition on the sdcard and did fastboot boot boot.img and gets "powering on BP" and "booting downloaded image" and stays | 16:28 |
| Crnkoj | any idea what could be tried ? | 16:28 |
| Crnkoj | for some time | 16:29 |
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| Khaled | I dont know but I think it would be easier for u to trade your atrix with gn | 16:29 |
| Khaled | I mean it took the developers alot to get cm9 on motorola devices | 16:30 |
| Khaled | imagine mer | 16:30 |
| Crnkoj | ah | 16:31 |
| Crnkoj | its a tegra2 basically | 16:31 |
| Crnkoj | mer is working on tegra2 tablets | 16:31 |
| Crnkoj | shouldnt be too hard once its booted | 16:31 |
| Khaled | well tegra 3 is coming so... | 16:32 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | still man i cant just throw a phone away after a year | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | its perfectly well working lol | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | and the only one to have fp unlock! | 16:33 |
| Khaled | we seriously need a handset mainly targeted | 16:33 |
| Khaled | for mer | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | my guess is | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | the new htc with tegra3 | 16:33 |
| Crnkoj | nvidia releases new kernels/libs fast | 16:34 |
| Crnkoj | htc ah unlocked bl | 16:34 |
| Crnkoj | has | 16:34 |
| Crnkoj | and does quite timely updates too | 16:34 |
| Khaled | I dont want to sound like a spec freak but we dont need all that power | 16:34 |
| Khaled | linux has tought me that companies bloat and slow down their software intentionaly to make us buy new phones | 16:34 |
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| Khaled | I mean look at the n9 working great on a single core | 16:35 |
| Crnkoj | true | 16:35 |
| Crnkoj | very true | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | still that would be future proof than | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | and as said probably a nvidia soc is the way to go | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | or | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | actually | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | intel atom | 16:36 |
| Khaled | and they would make no money I know they have to do that | 16:36 |
| Crnkoj | when they manage to get these low power ones | 16:36 |
| Khaled | but not at that crazy rate | 16:36 |
| Khaled | and google just abandoned everyone I mean ics runs 1% | 16:36 |
| Khaled | 1% | 16:37 |
| Crnkoj | heh true | 16:37 |
| Khaled | ioen source shouldn't be dictatorship with everyone doing their own skin | 16:38 |
| Khaled | it should be atleast balanced with some control | 16:38 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 16:38 |
| Crnkoj | i think google said now that some part of the ics look is mandatory | 16:38 |
| Crnkoj | to get market certification | 16:38 |
| Khaled | yeah the holo theme but thats not enough | 16:38 |
| Crnkoj | honestly if only that update alliance would work properly | 16:39 |
| Khaled | and their design guidlines should be forced cz apps look like windows mobile apps | 16:39 |
| Crnkoj | it would be fine | 16:39 |
| Crnkoj | i mean look | 16:39 |
| Khaled | yeah where is the update alliance, no where | 16:39 |
| Crnkoj | nokia pushed bell for the n8 now | 16:39 |
| Khaled | and thats an awesome move | 16:39 |
| Crnkoj | which is how old? 2 or 3 years ? | 16:39 |
| Crnkoj | still has THE best camera ona mobile | 16:40 |
| Crnkoj | on a | 16:40 |
| Khaled | yeah but the n8 sucks compared to n9 | 16:40 |
| Crnkoj | god the n9 camera is so bad | 16:40 |
| Crnkoj | true | 16:40 |
| Khaled | the iphone 4s is better | 16:40 |
| Crnkoj | i had two n9's first a 16gb one black which is sold for a profit than (lol) now have a 64gb black one | 16:40 |
| Khaled | it shoots 1080p and pictures look awesome | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: re native vs webos, even webos has native parts | 16:40 |
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| Stskeeps | Khaled: i personally push fast runtimes, qml and html5, while there's ability to do fast native uis too | 16:41 |
| Khaled | I read the ex palm employee that said it is built on webkit which is not ready or fatst enough | 16:41 |
| Crnkoj | man webos is pretty good | 16:41 |
| Khaled | well its all about the end result | 16:41 |
| Crnkoj | i dare to say better than android | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: there's always opinions.. i like html5 as app story but i wouldn't write my whole phone UI in it | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | maybe ics is on par with it | 16:42 |
| dcthang | Crnkoj: agree that camera on N9 is so bad | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | dcthang, i dont get it even the atrix with a 5mp camera is better | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | even a 4 yers old 6220c makes WAY better pics | 16:42 |
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| Khaled | yeah the web works for some stuff and some dont | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | yeras | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | years | 16:42 |
| Khaled | what is everyone's opinion on java? | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | dcthang, i hope its a software issue and they will be able to fix it with pr1.3 | 16:42 |
| Crnkoj | i mean pr 1.2 | 16:43 |
| dcthang | yeah, I hope so | 16:43 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, its rather easy to write and terribly widespread, but in my opinion its a bad language | 16:43 |
| Khaled | me too I really dislike it | 16:43 |
| Khaled | its either native c or web for me | 16:43 |
| Khaled | and if the n9 ux sunk in your minds then I am sure u wont tolerate buggy software | 16:44 |
| Crnkoj | ye well java is improving too | 16:44 |
| Crnkoj | but as said | 16:44 |
| Crnkoj | i feel its unnecessary | 16:44 |
| Crnkoj | its good for cross compatibility | 16:44 |
| Khaled | well we need to do something with webos | 16:44 |
| Crnkoj | but its so much overhead | 16:45 |
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| Khaled | I mean it will be opensourced | 16:45 |
| Khaled | and has apps ready for a tablet and a phone | 16:45 |
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| Khaled | cant we just copy their ux with major modifications and run it on mer | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | i'd say 'possibly', but at the moment it's hard to tell | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | we share a lot of components in base system | 16:46 |
| Crnkoj | yeey | 16:46 |
| Crnkoj | webos is still linux kernel based right ? | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | right | 16:46 |
| Khaled | their ux is my favourite because it can scale easily | 16:46 |
| Khaled | while n9 is only limited to phone ui | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's what you would think | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | we run nemo on tablets too and it's in fact not bad on a tablet factor | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | (nemo uses same technologies as n9 ui, except some closed parts) | 16:47 |
| Khaled | and I cant imagine the n9 ui on a tablet it would be unintuitive | 16:47 |
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| Khaled | does mer run on the touchpad? | 16:47 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, is tehre any nemo/mer work done for the nook color ? it has a very similar soc to the n9 | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: yes | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | mer at least | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: i have a nook color myself, we have framebuffer+touchscreen working, wifi in progress | 16:48 |
| Khaled | touchpad anyone? | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: touchpad is qualcomm and a bit problematic | 16:48 |
| wmarone_ | Crnkoj: if you're familiar with the ti wlan stuff, could always use the help :) | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: http://youtu.be/9egLh3yF5gk -- some flaws in that particular image | 16:49 |
| Khaled | really is omap and tegra easier for u? | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: yes, surprisingily | 16:49 |
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| Stskeeps | omap and tegra actually supports normal linux | 16:49 |
| Khaled | which is easier omap or tegra? | 16:49 |
| Crnkoj | wmarone_, im not really, im mostly "jumping into this stuff" | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | i prefer omap personally | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | but others like tegra2 too | 16:49 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, nice | 16:49 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, this might be interesting for you, let me link you | 16:50 |
| wmarone_ | Crnkoj: ok. but as Stskeeps said, framebuffer and touchscreen are working. I'm trying to unravel the wifi situation atm. | 16:50 |
| Khaled | I just love the powervr sgx543mp2 | 16:50 |
| Khaled | its what in the ipad | 16:50 |
| Crnkoj | http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/nwbuildtimes.xml | 16:50 |
| Crnkoj | look there Stskeeps it seems the tegra2 is faster than the omap4 in pure cpu speed lol | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: willing to bet that usb performance sucks | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | and it pretty much kills it in ram speeds http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/memcpy-neon_result.txt | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, on what ? | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | you mean the sdcard he used for the system ? | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: they say USB stick | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | oh ye | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | i ahve my panda on an usb stick too | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: also, tegra2 doesn't have NEON | 16:51 |
| Crnkoj | yep i know | 16:52 |
| vgrade | Khaled, http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/Touchpad | 16:52 |
| Crnkoj | NEON doesnt seem to have such an impact there though | 16:52 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, wmarone_ , there are a few guys who might be of actual help with the nook color | 16:52 |
| Crnkoj | they kind of interested me in all of this playing around | 16:52 |
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| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: anyway, we work on a common core here so i don't really care much about specific hardware, we just enable you guys to do great things with it :) | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | and optimize our work as see fit | 16:53 |
| Crnkoj | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1370873 | 16:53 |
| Crnkoj | here | 16:53 |
| Crnkoj | the guys dalingrin, keyodi and fattire | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | seem to know what they are doing | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | i think they could help you with the wifi issue | 16:54 |
| wmarone_ | heh | 16:54 |
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| Crnkoj | just post int hat thread even or pm them | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | or | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | join the channel #nookcolor | 16:54 |
| wmarone_ | I'm in #nookcolor, fattire is there most of the time | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | ah ok | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 16:54 |
| Crnkoj | they cant help you? ^ ^ | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | ICS is what kernel version for them? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | ah.. | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | still 2.6.32 | 16:55 |
| RaYmAn | wow..you'd think they'd move to 3.x | 16:55 |
| wmarone_ | they can't | 16:55 |
| wmarone_ | at least not without cleaning up all the board support files and pushing them upstream | 16:56 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 16:56 |
| RaYmAn | oh wait, nook color.I was thinking nook tablet =P | 16:56 |
| wmarone_ | and that's a nontrivial amount of work that delayed me for months | 16:56 |
| Crnkoj | same "shit" for the atrix | 16:56 |
| wmarone_ | nook tablet is crippled and worthless | 16:56 |
| RaYmAn | wmarone_: afaik someone managed to open up the bootloader | 16:56 |
| wmarone_ | I saw that | 16:56 |
| wmarone_ | the explanation isn't clear and there are few details | 16:57 |
| Crnkoj | ye | 16:57 |
| wmarone_ | I still won't buy hardware that they deliberately cripple | 16:57 |
| Crnkoj | humm i need to get a tablet for my grandma lol | 16:57 |
| Crnkoj | looking at a xoom since its GED or towardds an archo 101g9 | 16:58 |
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| Crnkoj | archos | 16:58 |
| Crnkoj | the xoom + is its a GED, the archos + is its a tad cheaper | 16:58 |
| wmarone_ | I think vgrade et. al. have PA + mer running on the G9s | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | g9 will have mer, yeah | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | http://dot.kde.org/2011/11/30/plasma-active-archos-g9-tablet | 16:59 |
| Crnkoj | well my grandma would use android i guess | 16:59 |
| Crnkoj | :) | 16:59 |
| Crnkoj | need something thats stable and has a lot of junk out of the box | 16:59 |
| Crnkoj | junk = apps | 16:59 |
| Crnkoj | ye and archos said they would update to ics very soon too | 17:00 |
| wmarone_ | your grandma will use whatever is available, frankly | 17:00 |
| wmarone_ | heh | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: so, you're mostly interested in hardware adaptations and mer? | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | or doing UIs on top too | 17:00 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, ah, we have to start slow :) 6 months ago i havent even touched linux | 17:01 |
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| Crnkoj | by now im running dual boots win7/gentoo on most of my pcs (only gentoo on one even) | 17:01 |
| Crnkoj | and even got the panda to work with gentoo (mostly, still ahve issues with hardware gfx and video palyback) | 17:01 |
| Crnkoj | im happy to get some more "native" linux (other than android) to run on the nook and atrix well | 17:02 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, so first kinda need to start low with adaptations than do UIs or stuff, if i will have the time, have to finish studies and once i do that ill work 24/7 =/ | 17:03 |
| Khaled | well if we have such limited resources then focus on one tablet and one phone | 17:03 |
| * Khaled put everything into that | 17:03 | |
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| Khaled | what kernal is mer running on? | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | we usually say that 2.6.32 or above is lowest | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | mer doesn't have a kernel of it's own, it's hardware adaptation | 17:04 |
| Khaled | and sorry what is ics on? | 17:05 |
| Crnkoj | that is good | 17:05 |
| Crnkoj | ics is mostly .39 or 3.x | 17:05 |
| Crnkoj | 3.0 | 17:05 |
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| Crnkoj | gn is using 3.something | 17:05 |
| wmarone_ | with weird backports to 2.6.32 for things like the nook color | 17:05 |
| Crnkoj | i think the xoom uses .39 | 17:05 |
| Crnkoj | true | 17:05 |
| Khaled | which is way better than 2.x? | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: keep in mind that you can run with 3.1 or 3.2 if you so desire, we just build userland with a specific assumption that a kernel larger than or equal to 2.6.32 exists | 17:05 |
| Khaled | yeah but u shouldn't start backeard compatablity from the start | 17:06 |
| Khaled | if 3.x is so much better than start from that | 17:06 |
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| Stskeeps | there's very good reasons why we do that, as a start, availability of devices that can actually run mer | 17:07 |
| Khaled | and as I said befor focus on one phone and one tablet | 17:07 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, kernel drivers for soem devices arent available for newer kernels but the .32 lets say | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | a too high bar will make it impossible to actually develop with it | 17:07 |
| Khaled | well we are starting fresh so u shouldn't care about devices | 17:07 |
| Crnkoj | than you would have to port them to newer kernels , lets say 3.2 | 17:07 |
| Crnkoj | which is terribly hard and timeconsuming | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: yeah, that didn't go too well in meego :) we focus on generic ARM/X86/MIPS | 17:07 |
| Khaled | only new and mer specific | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | Khaled: and if anyone wants to run own hardware adaptations they're welcome | 17:08 |
| Khaled | well meego had hardware partners | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | we have some quite high quality ones | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | heh, not that they did shit | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:08 |
| Khaled | so what is the best phone and tablet runnig mer | 17:08 |
| Khaled | ? | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | at the moment, n900/n950/n9 and exopc based tablets | 17:09 |
| Crnkoj | n950 | 17:09 |
| Crnkoj | exopc whats that ? | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | or virtualbox or vmware or qemu ;) | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | doesn't really matter | 17:09 |
| Crnkoj | god qemu im getting sick of it, tried to set it up at least 5 times | 17:09 |
| Crnkoj | still no dice | 17:09 |
| Crnkoj | i must be stupid lol | 17:09 |
| Khaled | n950 and n9 are okay but the exo pc is not up to today standards | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | it works fine for development | 17:10 |
| Crnkoj | so sad one cannot get a n950 nowdays | 17:10 |
| Crnkoj | i actualyl wanted to get a n950 instead of the n9 | 17:10 |
| Crnkoj | for the kb sakes | 17:10 |
| Khaled | but is ist easy to port mer on gn? | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, which hardware to choose is like opinions, everybody has one | 17:10 |
| Khaled | fragmantation | 17:10 |
| Crnkoj | Khaled, actualyl if you would port mer to the pandaboard (which it almsot is fully functional), than you can assume proting to the gn isnt an issue either | 17:11 |
| Crnkoj | since they share the same SoC | 17:11 |
| Crnkoj | and the gn has a "new" up-too-date kernel | 17:11 |
| Crnkoj | up-to | 17:11 |
| Khaled | well first I dont have one | 17:11 |
| Crnkoj | but not everyone likes such huge phones for isntance :) | 17:11 |
| Khaled | yeah but it is the best now | 17:12 |
| Khaled | its only gn 4s and n9 for me | 17:12 |
| Crnkoj | lol | 17:13 |
| Crnkoj | you ahve n9 and 4s? :P | 17:13 |
| Khaled | no I mean those are my high watermarks | 17:13 |
| Khaled | I only have and android phone and an ipad 2 which I am on irc with | 17:13 |
| Khaled | I hope u guys learn from android and its fragmantation cz its all on the user | 17:14 |
| Crnkoj | ah | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | people dont care | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | lol | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | (the general public) | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | thats why android went so fast sky high | 17:15 |
| Khaled | exactly they just want stuff to work good and look nice | 17:15 |
| Khaled | and fragmantation is the opposite of that | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | but i believe in the next few years wp7/8 will go sky high and start to gain share | 17:15 |
| Crnkoj | so probably at some point it will be 1/1/1 iOS/android/wp | 17:16 |
| Khaled | well they have billions of money so its just a matter of time | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | or iOS will even loose users relatively | 17:16 |
| Khaled | well its our goal to be number 1 | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | well the nokia deal was a great move from ms | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | besides | 17:16 |
| Khaled | and beat wp to the race | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | i feel wp7 is the best big os out right now | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | better than ios | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | and better than android by far | 17:16 |
| Khaled | wp is not better | 17:16 |
| Khaled | than ios | 17:16 |
| Crnkoj | man it works faster on a single core 1ghz cpu than android on a dualcore 1.ghz | 17:17 |
| lbt | could you take this to #meego-bar :) | 17:17 |
| Khaled | I am sorry its laughable right now and no one wants | 17:17 |
| Crnkoj | ye sorry | 17:17 |
| lbt | ta | 17:17 |
| Khaled | and ios runs fast on my dads i4 single core | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: any progress on your side? | 17:17 |
| lbt | getting IMG up | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i managed to get qtwebkit 2.2.1 building, which i'm terribly happy about | 17:18 |
| lbt | I saw that - good stuff | 17:18 |
| lbt | what was needed? | 17:18 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, which sources do you guys use for gst-plugins-ffmpeg ? im trying to build those on the pandaboard an have to edit the config file of every source i pull to remove fsputil_vfp support else it fails compilign,s aying the processor doesnt support ARM | 17:18 |
| Khaled | is the latest linux kernal 3.2.5? | 17:19 |
| Crnkoj | stable yes, there is 3.3-rc2 if i dont mistaken, jsut check kernel.org | 17:19 |
| Khaled | any major changes? | 17:20 |
| Crnkoj | you should check the changes on the page i dont really look at those | 17:20 |
| Crnkoj | but as sdiscussed earlier 3.3 should have some major android drivers in it | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: a hammer and looking at how debian did it | 17:20 |
| lbt | :) | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: we don't really, we can't include that directly in core due to patent reasons | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: others are welcome to build it though | 17:21 |
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| lbt | wtf is mic doing in /usr/local/bin/mic-image-creator | 17:21 |
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| lbt | those MINT guys sure let things slide since I left :) | 17:22 |
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| Stskeeps | phaeron: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA1NDk | 17:23 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: yeah I've seen | 17:24 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: not sure what to make of it | 17:24 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, ah i see | 17:24 |
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| Stskeeps | phaeron: just interesting way to get perhaps more performance | 17:25 |
| lbt | "Dawati is the open-source user-interface expected to be the reference design for Tizen" ... ? | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: convuluted | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | but at least they seperated dawati from tizen trademark | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | compared to meego netbok ux | 17:25 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: I meant hiding stuff so they can do big reveal as usual | 17:26 |
| Khaled | well samsung sold 4m bada phones so they can sure sell tizen phone | 17:26 |
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| Crnkoj | oh wayland nice | 17:26 |
| Crnkoj | i hear good things about it | 17:26 |
| Crnkoj | oh the archos you ported mer on it has "only" 512mb ram ? | 17:27 |
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| lbt | so phaeron... mic2 installs to /usr/local/bin ? | 17:28 |
| phaeron | I don't remember | 17:28 |
| phaeron | aren't we supposed to move to mic anyway | 17:29 |
| lbt | yeah but I need IMG running now | 17:29 |
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| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: i have had qmlviewer up in 37mb.. | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | without trying hard | 17:30 |
| phaeron | lbt: how are you installing the img worker | 17:30 |
| lbt | http://autodoc.meego.com/mint/imager/install.html | 17:30 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, sorry what qmlviewer for ? | 17:30 |
| lbt | not kvm yet | 17:30 |
| andrnils | any chance of getting something mer-based running on the nokia e7? | 17:30 |
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| phaeron | lbt: tell me host distro is not debian :) | 17:31 |
| lbt | it is | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | andrnils: not really, locked bootloader | 17:31 |
| phaeron | mic2 has problems on debian | 17:32 |
| phaeron | so better have opensuse worker , or use kvm | 17:32 |
| lbt | I planned to use kvm with mer SDK based root | 17:33 |
| lbt | nested kvm | 17:33 |
| phaeron | nested kvm worked for me but tended to hard hang my box. It also needs fairly recent host | 17:34 |
| lbt | I had hoped to run chroot first | 17:34 |
| lbt | host is 3.1.9-1.4-default suse 12.1 | 17:34 |
| phaeron | that should work a bit better, and you need very recent qemu-kvm for nested | 17:35 |
| lbt | I may revert to running the worker in kvm on the phost if needed | 17:35 |
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| andrnils | Stskeeps: such a same, the hw feels pretty solid. how are the specs for it? | 17:37 |
| andrnils | from a price pov, they should be lower than the n9 specs | 17:37 |
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| Crnkoj | hey guys one thing, nemo is the window manager for mer ? | 17:38 |
| phaeron | lbt: running mer sdk in kvm using the method described in the docs should be fairly stable | 17:39 |
| lbt | yep - that's the plan | 17:39 |
| lbt | I'll throw up a suse worker and run chroot until then | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: no, it's a handset project, UI and hardware adaptations | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: project wise seperate from mer, but it builds upon mer | 17:40 |
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| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, ah ok i see, what window managre is used for it though ? i mean, could i get a similar UI that is nemo or get nemo on a pc running gentoo linux (like i can have gnome3 or lxde or such on it) ? | 17:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: it uses mcompositor as wm | 17:42 |
| Crnkoj | hmm | 17:42 |
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| Crnkoj | hmm | 17:43 |
| Crnkoj | thanks | 17:43 |
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| lbt | OK | 17:49 |
| lbt | so IMG is kinda running | 17:49 |
| lbt | it has a debian chroot worker | 17:49 |
| lbt | mic won't make a chroot for mer .ks files | 17:49 |
| lbt | so we need to bootstrap using http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Image_Creation_For_Beginners#STEP_3_-_Create_a_bootstrap_area | 17:49 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, one question to get the core package to boot on that phone should we use mmcblk1p2 or p1 as the root (i assume p2) ? | 17:49 |
| phaeron | lbt: so the story is mic2 gets the needed packages from a repository mentioned in the kickstart to create the bootstrap | 17:50 |
| lbt | hardcoded? | 17:50 |
| phaeron | lbt: but mer's minimal repositories do not provide those packaes | 17:50 |
| lbt | OK | 17:50 |
| phaeron | lbt: afair it searches the repos | 17:50 |
| phaeron | lbt: so first step is to create the bootstrap from a repo that provides those packages | 17:50 |
| lbt | so when I said "needs to be redone later" I should have said "will not be needed when mer provides the deps" | 17:51 |
| phaeron | does the mer Tools repo have them yet ? | 17:51 |
| phaeron | well not mer core as those are not supposed to be there | 17:51 |
| lbt | so lets forget mer as chroot bootstrap for now | 17:52 |
| phaeron | afair You can specify the mainrepo in the conf file at /etc/mic2/mic2.conf | 17:52 |
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| phaeron | so try adding it there now and see if the bootstrapping works | 17:52 |
| phaeron | but we really should move to using mer Tools repo | 17:52 |
| lbt | yes... after IMG runs | 17:53 |
| lbt | very next big task | 17:53 |
| lbt | then iterate over IMG | 17:53 |
| lbt | mmm, actually OBS package is next, then SDK, then iterate | 17:53 |
| lbt | so .... do I *need* mainrepo? | 17:54 |
| lbt | or can I bootstrap | 17:54 |
| phaeron | if you create the initial bootstrap manually and allow img to reuse it then you don't need to add it there | 17:54 |
| lbt | "allow img to reuse it" | 17:55 |
| lbt | not mentioned in the img.conf file | 17:55 |
| zumbi | lbt: do you use debian as host OS? | 17:55 |
| lbt | yes in our infra | 17:55 |
| zumbi | and do you have deb packages that could live in debian archive? i.e. worker deb packages? | 17:56 |
| zumbi | or server packages? | 17:56 |
| lbt | yes | 17:56 |
| lbt | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=Project%3AMINT%3ATesting | 17:56 |
| zumbi | lbt: I would be happy to review them and upload them to main debian archive | 17:56 |
| lbt | cool - some support on debian packaging would be nice | 17:57 |
| lbt | we need to review our strategy for some of the tools | 17:57 |
| lbt | but certainly our systems offerings should be able to run on debian | 17:57 |
| zumbi | lbt: I had lots of problems using server software over Debian, currently using appliance given by openSUSE | 17:58 |
| zumbi | workers are fine | 17:58 |
| lbt | obs workers? | 17:58 |
| zumbi | yep | 17:58 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, i have one question about the boot.img to try to boot mer on the atrix, does it have or must not have a ramdisk ? | 17:58 |
| lbt | we're doing IMG workers atm | 17:58 |
| lbt | phaeron: ok - rootstrap built | 17:58 |
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| phaeron | lbt: you don't need to do anything special besides creating the bootstrap in the place mic2 expects it when it is run by img | 17:59 |
| lbt | zumbi: I don't run any obs on debian - sorry :) | 17:59 |
| zumbi | lbt: IMG? as image generation workers? using kickstart and MIC? | 17:59 |
| lbt | yes | 17:59 |
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| lbt | and link into our BOSS automation | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: doesn't have to, just boot straight to the fs typically | 17:59 |
| phaeron | lbt: remember this is a new use path so yes it is not documented | 17:59 |
| lbt | so each time we do a commit into gerrit/mer-core we do a rootfs build | 17:59 |
| lbt | phaeron: I'm not complaining :) | 17:59 |
| phaeron | ok :) | 18:00 |
| lbt | bbias ... need a drink | 18:00 |
| zumbi | is it worth to use gerrit? does not obs handle patches by itself? | 18:00 |
| phaeron | zumbi: gerrit provides a developer workflow that is faster and more agile than obs | 18:01 |
| phaeron | we also do have an OBS based review process | 18:02 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, thanks, we tried with these boot args http://pastebin.com/nAD3tD8C , but tsdedst left the ramdisk in it, jsut removed init and init.rc, probably thats messing it up | 18:02 |
| phaeron | zumbi: currently being used by nemo | 18:02 |
| zumbi | I am not sure what BOSS is, but if it is a validation/verification framework, have you thought on using Linaro LAVA? | 18:02 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, how do you make a boot.img without a ramdisk,, with mkbootimg, you must have a ramdisk or it says "error no ramdisk specified" | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: just make an empty one i gues | 18:03 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, oh ok | 18:04 |
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| phaeron | zumbi: boss is built around ruote , a business process workflow engine. it can do anything you write "participants" for. | 18:06 |
| vgrade | Crnkoj, have you tried /dev/mmcblk1p2 as your root. Also are you sure its mmcblk1 fro your sdcard. You have done the right thing with initrd | 18:06 |
| phaeron | zumbi: Linaro lava looks more like OTS which was being used in meego.com | 18:07 |
| phaeron | we don't have an OTS installation yet, so it could be feasible to write a participant for lava to plug it into our workflows for image validation and testing | 18:07 |
| zumbi | phaeron: I see, thanks, I was looking to http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Infrastructure/BOSS | 18:08 |
| lbt | ok | 18:08 |
| vgrade | Crnkoj, also try rootwait option | 18:08 |
| phaeron | zumbi: it's a bit outdated but the basics there still hold. ping me if something is unclear | 18:09 |
| * phaeron notes to migrates the docs to sphinx and to autodoc | 18:09 | |
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| lbt | IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/bin/mic | 18:10 |
| lbt | dipshit installation to /usr/local/bin | 18:10 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, yes we tried both, had rootwait at 25 and 50 | 18:11 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, and yes we tried with mmcblk1p2 | 18:11 |
| lbt | it installs itself there and invokes /usr/bin internally! | 18:11 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, http://pastebin.com/nAD3tD8C here what was used, it just try to boot, than reboots and boots to cm7 | 18:11 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, than it was booted with fastboot boot boot1.img | 18:12 |
| phaeron | lbt: is that after or before chroot ? | 18:12 |
| lbt | before I think | 18:13 |
| phaeron | mm | 18:13 |
| lbt | 0% sure | 18:13 |
| lbt | err 90% sure | 18:13 |
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| Sage | vgrade: not yet, I'll try to push it somewhere tomorrow | 18:14 |
| Sage | Khaled: ^ | 18:14 |
| tsdedst | i tried removing init.rc, removing init* and removing everything from the ramdisk, nothing worked | 18:15 |
| tsdedst | with the args in Crnkoj's pastebin | 18:15 |
| lbt | phaeron: yes, it's the 'new' mic2 version you copied in a few weeks ago | 18:16 |
| lbt | 0.24.14 | 18:16 |
| phaeron | lbt: ok :( | 18:16 |
| lbt | well I guess it came from MeeGo ? | 18:16 |
| phaeron | will look now and promote | 18:16 |
| lbt | ta :) | 18:17 |
| vgrade | Crnkoj, rootwait not rootdelay | 18:19 |
| vgrade | Sage, thanks, Khaled was wanting some nemo screenies | 18:20 |
| tsdedst | vgrade how much rootwait? | 18:22 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, ah sorry | 18:22 |
| vgrade | Crnkoj /dev/mmcblk1p2 without the /block/ | 18:22 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, its seen with /block/ on the device always | 18:23 |
| vgrade | do you get any kernel messages on screen? | 18:23 |
| Crnkoj | no | 18:24 |
| Crnkoj | not until now, the problem is one cant debug anything there | 18:24 |
| Crnkoj | no serial, no jtag no output to the screen | 18:24 |
| vgrade | when you say on the its seen with /block/ on the device you mean when booted with andriod | 18:25 |
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| vgrade | what do you have on your sdcard? | 18:26 |
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| Crnkoj | vgrade, yes when booted with android | 18:28 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, the sdcard has the mer core dded onto it | 18:28 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, the one from here http://images.formeego.org/tegra2/ | 18:29 |
| vgrade | ok but that is built for mmcblk0 | 18:30 |
| Crnkoj | ah | 18:30 |
| Crnkoj | so we should build our own one ? | 18:30 |
| vgrade | mount the sdcard and edit the fstab | 18:30 |
| Crnkoj | aha ok | 18:30 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, thanks, should we try with /dev/block/mmcblk or /dev/mmcblk ? | 18:31 |
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| Crnkoj | vgrade, tried your suggestions, still no dice | 18:41 |
| Crnkoj | tried both /dev/block/mmcblk1 and /dev/mmcblk1 | 18:41 |
| Crnkoj | in the fstab | 18:41 |
| Crnkoj | vgrade, is there a bootarg/option that forces kernel output to the screen ? | 18:42 |
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| phaeron | Crnkoj: add console=tty0 to the kernel boot command line afair | 18:44 |
| phaeron | and remove quiet if it is three | 18:44 |
| phaeron | *there | 18:44 |
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| Crnkoj | remove quite where ? | 18:44 |
| phaeron | lbt: try upgrading now | 18:44 |
| phaeron | Crnkoj: kernel boot command line | 18:45 |
| lbt | sec on phone :) | 18:45 |
| Crnkoj | aha ok | 18:45 |
| phaeron | brb | 18:45 |
| lbt | pulling | 18:45 |
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| khaled_ | so any screenshots on the nemo mobile | 18:47 |
| khaled_ | ? | 18:47 |
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| Stskeeps | Khaled: i pointed you to a bunch of videos of it earlier | 18:53 |
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| Stskeeps | vgrade: is that gles? | 19:19 |
| vgrade | no | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | still fairly good | 19:20 |
| vgrade | yea, be even better with gles | 19:20 |
| vgrade | do we still have the llvmpipe blocker on arm? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes, sadly | 19:21 |
| vgrade | looking forward to see what lima can do | 19:22 |
| _av500_ | wasnt lima scheduled to be release today? | 19:24 |
| vgrade | not seen anything on #lima | 19:25 |
| _av500_ | maybe after fosdem he slept for 3 days in a row | 19:26 |
| vgrade | _av500_, I brought back a very bad cold and I think he mentioned he did too | 19:28 |
| _av500_ | yeah | 19:29 |
| _av500_ | I should have slept 3 days :) | 19:29 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbyyA9X4Qk | 20:32 |
| Stskeeps | (thanks to vgrade) | 20:32 |
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| harbaum | cool. does it have hw accelerated video? | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | i've only so far seen gles on top of framebuffer on that specific SoC, but at least they're available for glibc.. | 20:39 |
| vgrade | harbaum, not yet | 20:40 |
| RaYmAn | I guess given the nature of the manufacturer, getting hardware accelerated is just a matter of time? | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | the existence of framebuffer only gles drivers does make me wonder if you can get something useful going with directfb | 20:42 |
| harbaum | can qt use gles over framebuffer? | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | but multiprocess is naturally difficult | 20:43 |
| harbaum | since gl calls would bypass everything? | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | you'd need some kind of meditation at least, yeah | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | but normally you only want to do full screen and not do gles when in background | 20:45 |
| harbaum | in ux like nemo/maemo they also run minimzed | 20:47 |
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| harbaum | under x this is the job of egl? | 20:48 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, generally we try to drop the gl context when minimizd | 20:49 |
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| harbaum | "we"? which ordinary gles application does that? | 20:51 |
| harbaum | in the end ypu'd likely want to be able to run them unmodified | 20:51 |
| Crnkoj | uhm guys probably a stupid question but is mer little or big endian ? | 20:51 |
| harbaum | depends on your cpu | 20:52 |
| Crnkoj | tegra2 | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: little endian | 20:52 |
| Crnkoj | thank you | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | on arm | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | harbaum: we have hacks for doing so in qt, at least | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow | 20:53 |
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| Stskeeps | sleep time | 20:53 |
| harbaum | sure, but what about my gles based plattform game? | 20:53 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, good point | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | in egl+x11 it usually either renders into an off screen buffer or the framebuffer | 20:54 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, might you ahve an ide why i get this error cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-mno-unaligned-access" when i try to crosscompile the kernel on my pc with this option make -j9 ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=armv7a-unknown-linux-gnueabi- zImage ? | 20:55 |
| Crnkoj | an idea* | 20:55 |
| Crnkoj | the thing is when i crosscompile kernels for the pandaboard with the same option it works like a charm | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | Crnkoj: -mno-unaligned-access doesn't exist in some compilers and is needed for those it doesn't | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | there's a patch in thee kernels | 20:55 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, what do you mean with that there is pacth in the kernels ? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | as in grep the source and you'll see the problem | 20:57 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, is it dependand on the gcc version or jsut the sitron one is using ? | 20:57 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, i get this error (fully) http://pastebin.com/pX8YNE01 | 20:57 |
| Crnkoj | sitron=distro (lol) | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | grep the source | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | grep the source for what | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | for the error | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | ? | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | mno-unaligned-access | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | which part of the source | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | hmm | 20:58 |
| Crnkoj | Stskeeps, aha ok got it out fo the Makefile,s eems to compile now | 21:03 |
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| vgrade | Crnkoj, yea you only need that option if you are using the latest Mer gcc | 21:04 |
| Crnkoj | ah | 21:05 |
| Crnkoj | ah you are back vgrade | 21:06 |
| Crnkoj | ye i got another issue | 21:06 |
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| nsuffys | good night +++ | 21:58 |
| lbt | o/ | 21:58 |
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| Khaled | Stskeeps: I cant make anything from the videos, are there clear screenshots from a device running nemo ? | 22:27 |
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| ali1234 | is the spark tablet going to ship with mer powering the plasma active? or does it use something else? | 22:40 |
| lbt | it uses mer | 22:42 |
| ali1234 | awesome | 22:42 |
| lbt | indeed | 22:42 |
| * lbt is going down bloody system rabbitholes ... you C hackers don't know how easy you have it | 22:44 | |
| ali1234 | meaning? | 22:45 |
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| lbt | trying to install a img system | 22:46 |
| lbt | needs a new qemu | 22:46 |
| lbt | none available | 22:46 |
| lbt | building one needs a new glibc | 22:46 |
| lbt | putting it on a new suse worker means deploying nfs | 22:47 |
| lbt | or running httpd on the worker | 22:47 |
| lbt | Mer SDK solution isn't ready | 22:47 |
| lbt | and needs nested kvm | 22:47 |
| lbt | which means a phost reboot | 22:47 |
| lbt | and I have no remote console | 22:47 |
| lbt | every way I turn is a new blocker... grrr | 22:47 |
| ali1234 | i see what you mean | 22:48 |
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| Netweaver_ | Ali1234: Hi, can I ask a favour ? | 23:47 |
| ali1234 | depends what it is? | 23:48 |
| Netweaver_ | I know you've written/enabled the first uboot+PR13, together with Carsten. Now Pali has been creating a newer version of u-boot but that one doesn't work with the Nemo kernel on N900. It has mmc init/read issues. Is there a possibility you could also have a look at Pali's code, to see where the problem might be ? | 23:50 |
| ali1234 | ah yes | 23:51 |
| ali1234 | it's based on newer u-boot right? | 23:51 |
| Netweaver_ | yes | 23:51 |
| ali1234 | what point does the kernel fail? | 23:51 |
| Netweaver_ | I remember he even took some code from a 3.0.0 kernel | 23:51 |
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| ali1234 | this is very likely to be a kernel bug | 23:52 |
| Netweaver_ | the uboot file is read correctyly and then the errors -110 start, reading every sector | 23:52 |
| ali1234 | so what is the kernel output? | 23:52 |
| Netweaver_ | problem with that is, why does it work with your u-boot ? Same kernel ? | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | because i was very careful not to touch any hardware at all | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | because the kernel doesn't set it up properly | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | it expects the bootloader to do that | 23:53 |
| ali1234 | so anything that you touch in u-boot has to be put back before starting the kernel | 23:53 |
| Netweaver_ | I've created a bug report in the Nemo bug system, it has lots of info and links : https://bugs.nemomobile.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92 | 23:54 |
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| Netweaver_ | I tried 2 kernel patches I collected from other kernels but no luck | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | this is what you need to do | 23:55 |
| ali1234 | patch the kernel to dump the MMC registers | 23:55 |
| ali1234 | then boot that with both u-boot versions and see what the difference is | 23:55 |
| ali1234 | do it before mmc init, in the early board init | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | before the kernel touches it | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | alternatively, do it in u-boot | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | before even loading the kernel | 23:56 |
| ali1234 | note that the u-boot has totally different arm code including the mmc driver and it is probably trashing some register | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | the new u-boot | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | ultimately this is a kernel bug though | 23:57 |
| Netweaver_ | ok ... Any pointer where I could start? I've never done any uboot programming :) I know the new code has the generic mmc code, obviously not that good | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | just get the omap datasheet and read how to do a full reset on the mmc controller, and then do that in init | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | where is the nemo n900 kernel developed? | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | nemomobile.org just redirects to mer :/ | 23:58 |
| Netweaver_ | let me get you the link ... | 23:59 |
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