Thursday, 2012-02-02

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zesterUhggg Gnome 3 is rough00:14
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I test xterm this morning, but xterm is running without nothing on screen.02:44
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: When I run xterm or qmlviewer, I use "cat /dev/fb0". Then I can see something in my virtual terminal, so I think X server can use fb0 correctly. But still nothing on my tv screen.03:29
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StskeepsZiQiangHuan: i suspect it may somehow be related to virtual terminals06:21
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: xorg has some options to avoid switching those06:21
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: you mean my xorg didn't use the correct virtual terminals ?06:26
ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: I use "cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0", the screen can really show up. So fb0 seems to be OK. right ?06:28
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: more along lines of that the virtual terminal code may be broken on your device06:29
StskeepsZiQiangHuan: check Xorg --help06:30
Stskeepsbut anyway, i have to go to office. in the afternoon i fly back home and then tomorrow to belgium06:31
Stskeepswill be back normal on tuesday06:31
StskeepsSage: new SGX published supposedly06:32
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ZiQiangHuanStskeeps: see you then06:35
dm8tbrStskeeps: which flight are you on?06:37
* dm8tbr is on some LOT flight that lands 183006:38
Stskeepsdm8tbr: to brussels?06:43
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Stskeepsdm8tbr: 1830 arrival too, from warsaw, so same flight?06:44
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* Sage arrives at 17:00 to BRU from HEL06:50
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SageStskeeps: can you accept the udev and retrigger the usbutils? Or are you already travelling? :)06:51
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faboStskeeps: ping about the qemu question07:01
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berndhs_950Stskeeps: lies about sleeping, he does no such thing  :)07:08
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Stskeepsfabo: , find mer-crosshelpers/qemu-usermode07:13
Stskeepsfabo: actually, mer-core/ now07:15
Stskeepsfabo: we try to use linaro qemu as upstream07:17
faboStskeeps: thanks!07:17
Stskeepswhat do you need to see, out of curiousity?07:18
faboStskeeps: I'm looking into cross build to generate our images. as mer generates armhf images, you have a known working qemu07:20
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Stskeepsah, right07:20
faboStskeeps: qemu is the culprit in the chain... we should make sure it's always in a working state07:21
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Sagedid we have qemu building for hosts somewhere?07:34
StskeepsSage: yes, mer core now contains both qemu-usermode (dynamic) and qemu-usermode-static07:34
Stskeepsfabo: armhf had a particularly nasty one in old qemu's, simply stalled07:37
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SageStskeeps: hmmp... just wondering where I should get qemu-arm-static for fedora 1607:40
faboStskeeps: I have qemu building on obs ->
faboSage: ^^^07:40
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fabothough I'm forced to use a trick to create the package07:40
StskeepsSage: cheat and rpm2cpio .rpm | cpio -idv07:41
Stskeepsit's a static binary after all07:41
fabofor fedora, I'm using 0.15.1, 1.0 fails to build for a non-trivial issue07:41
fabotheir bug tracker have the issue... and it explains also why they didn't have upgraded to 1.0 yet ;)07:43
Stskeepsah, right07:43
Stskeepsif you build 1.0 for s390x the thing goes balistic with out of memory gcc07:43
Stskeepsie, the user target07:43
* Stskeeps tries to remember how to use mic2 behind a proxy07:46
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SageStskeeps: true :)07:51
StskeepsSage: in practice i'd really like mic to possibly pull qemu from repo or something like that07:56
Sage:nod: that would be nice thing07:58
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SageStskeeps: where is the qemu-usermode-static in mer core?08:01
StskeepsSage: hmm, it might be that i haven't exposed it yet08:02
Stskeepsthere was a conflict when i had to switch over to sb2-obs so08:02
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sonachStskeeps: qmlviewer can display now:) We will soon test qtmediahub.  We add a file to /etc/X11/Xorg.conf.d/.08:11
Stskeepssonach: oh wow, what was the problem?08:12
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sonachStskeeps:  But we don't know which line really takes effect,08:15
Stskeepseither way, i'm glad it works08:16
Stskeepsi think depth and specifying which fb matters08:16
Stskeepsyou can make this file in %post in your .ks file too08:18
Stskeepswith cat > /etc/X11/Xorg.conf.d/hisilicon.conf << EOF08:18
Stskeepsthe content08:18
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sonachStskeeps: OK. Now I copy the file directly to the /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d.  I will add it to %post when I make next image:)08:20
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SageStskeeps: can you recall what problems vdso_enabled caused during builds?08:20
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Stskeepsstalls and segfaults08:22
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Stskeepsnot sure if it's so bad a problem anymore though08:25
Sagejust noted the warning with mic after a long time so wondered if that is still a problem or not08:26
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sonachStskeeps: qtmediahub is running succefully now:)08:35
Stskeepssonach: congratulations :)08:36
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Stskeepsi wonder about performance, can you navigate the menus?08:36
sonachyes. Is there any benchmark to give performance result?08:37
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Stskeepsnot sure, does it seem fast to you or slow? ;)08:37
Stskeeps(and what resolution do you run it on?)08:37
sonachIt is much faster than XBMC. It can be accepted as demo,but cannot accepted as product.08:38
Stskeepswell, if you put it on top of directfb, probably a lot faster08:38
Stskeepsas i stated, i'm not expecting it to run fast in fbdev xorg :)08:38
sonachDoes 2D hardware take effect when it runs in fbdev+xorg?08:39
Stskeepsnot really08:39
Stskeepsso that's why i think it is slower08:40
sonachSo If I use directfb, then 2D hardware is enabled?08:40
Stskeepsi would assume so08:40
Stskeepsas directfb is meant to be for accelerating with the use of 2d hardware08:40
sonachone question then: If I use directfb, how to do the window management? Now we think that all window management tasks are done by X11.08:41
Stskeepssonach: for a STB you typically wouldn't need window management, just layers, right?08:42
Stskeepsie, video on top of UI08:42
Stskeepseven web applications would typically be embedded in UI08:42
sonachStskeeps: hmm, I think I don't quite understand this.  It is an OS which will support applications, for example, support multiple HTML5 apps at the same time. so I think window management is a need,08:44
Stskeepsok, so, it seems directfb has windowing system too08:45
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Stskeepsi don't really know much about directfb, but it seems to me that it shouldn't be a problem :)08:46
sonachStskeeps: hmm, I will do some deeper work about this.  X11 doesn't support directfb?08:47
timophIMO that should be enough for the first version08:47
Stskeepssonach: one thing to check: does hisilicon provide a directfb plugin for their hardware08:47
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sonachStskeeps: Yes. I think we will try directfb very soon.  one question: in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/hisi.conf, I use "Option "fb" "/dev/fb2"  " but it seems that X11 still uses fb0. Is that right?08:49
Stskeepssonach: hmmm08:49
sonachStskeeps: So I did the following "rm /dev/fb0; ln -s /dev/fb2 /dev/fb0", then restart qtmediahub and xorg, then qtmediahub show up.08:49
Stskeepssonach: i would have to look at the xorg fbdev driver to answer that08:50
Stskeepsmaybe we use wrong option08:50
Stskeepsyes, it's not option "fb" , it's option "fbdev"08:50
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sonachStskeeps: OK:) another question. Now qtmediahub only displays on left-bottom of TV screen. fb2 output is 1280x720. TV screen is 1080i(it shows this at start up). Can Xorg change TV screen from 1080i to 1280x720?08:52
sonachStskeeps: I will then try "fbdev "/dev/fb2"":)08:53
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Stskeepssonach: i don't know, but it would be xorg modelines08:53
Stskeepsit's a bit specific to your hardware08:53
sonachStskeeps: OK. If 3D hardware is enabled, then OpenGL ESv2 can use 3D hardware. Does OpenGL ESv2 have window system similiar to Xorg?08:55
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Stskeepssonach: that's a more complex topic and it depends on a lot of things :) if it's coupled with xorg drivers then yes for example08:59
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Stskeepsbergie: cool09:02
Stskeepssonach: but anyway, the thing about html5 apps: you can embed them in the UI, for example QML supports embedding webkit inside it09:02
Stskeepsso you don't even need window management09:03
sonachStskeeps: OK:) Now hifb.ko depends on tde.ko(which is 2D haredware). So Is it possible hifb is using 2D hareware?09:03
Stskeepssonach: yes, but nothing probably takes usage of it09:03
Stskeepsie, accelerating blit and so on09:03
Stskeepssonach: , scroll down to "Example usage"09:03
Stskeepsthat can be added straight in qtmediahub theme, for example09:04
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SageX-Fade: ping, any change you could check what is holdup for ? Not sure if you can but phaeron doesn't seem to be here yet :/09:06
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X-FadeHmm #meego-boss looks very quiet.09:07
X-FadeLet me see what is up.09:08
sonachStskeeps: I see your example. it requires qtwebkit.  Now our company uses webkit directly with cario/curl/etc. , Not qtwebkit. So Is there any problem?09:09
Stskeepssonach: well, let's see how your setup will end up being like, just stating what options exist :)09:10
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X-FadeSage: Found the issue. Out of disk ;)09:10
X-FadeLet me see if I can clean some logs :)09:10
Stskeepssonach: if you need to run a seperate web runtime then you need to have window system support for directfb yes09:11
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Stskeepssonach: but the manuals i find about hisilicon on directfb seems to imply that there is support for it09:13
SageX-Fade: :)09:15
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lbtah phaeron09:30
lbtcan you look at boss with X-Fade`09:30
lbtall is FATAL09:30
lbtand not retrying09:30
phaerongood morning ..09:32
lbtgood morning :D09:33
X-Fadephaeron: /var ran out of disk09:33
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X-Fadephaeron: rabbit is running now again, but the skynet participants are not.09:33
phaeronX-Fade: just restart them :)09:34
X-Fadephaeron: Does not work09:34
X-Fadephaeron: Or I am not using the right spell.. But the cli help is very very limited for that service :)09:35
phaeronskynet start --all09:35
phaeronX-Fade: done I started them all09:35
X-FadeYeah, I see some movement :)09:36
phaeronreload will not start stopped participants09:36
phaeronretrying is done with increasing backoff time for 100 tries and then stops09:37
lbtI don't think it should stop09:37
phaeronit's better than hammering the system09:38
lbtthat is what backoff is for09:38
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phaeronskynet --help will give you a list of commands , each also has its own --help09:39
lbtand no, IMHO, it's not better from a sysadmin PoV ... we want it to recover if possible when the root cause error is fixed09:39
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phaeronwell if a sysadmin fixes the error , he will then poke it09:41
phaeronbackoff increases , and it could be a while before a retry happens after the sysadmin fixes  the error09:41
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phaeronlbt: if there was monitoring the sysadmin would fix the error before the 100 retries expire. When they do , we know something is very wrong, and unlikely to be resolved on its own09:44
phaeronnow I wonder I am logrotating rabbitmq logs everyday how did it manage to fill up that fast09:45
lbtand no, really, there is no need at all to stop retrying09:47
lbtautomation is about doing things without intervention09:47
lbtby all means stop logging so verbosely09:47
lbtbut why on earth would you stop the service if all it needs is a manual restart?09:47
phaeronwho said stop ?09:49
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lbt"100 tries and then stops" ?09:49
lbtcome on, this is a tiny point...09:49
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* phaeron realizes tomorrow is travel day09:53
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* matrixx realizes it's going to be cold in belgium too09:53
lbtvery very cold09:56
* lbt has .fi gear ready09:56
matrixxyeah, .fi-cold09:56
lbtand *lots* of layers of T-shirts....09:57
slaine-4C here this morning09:58
slainethat's cold by our standards09:58
matrixxwe have probably something like -20C in .fi :S09:59
matrixxhaven't been out in a few days :D10:00
Stskeepsi'm looking forward to going home and staying indoors and working, none of that pesky commuting10:01
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pohlystskeeps: do you collect presentations for the Mobile Dev Room? You can grab the slides for my talk on Saturday from
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dm8tbrStskeeps: must be same flight, yes. I'll be hanging out quite a bit in waw. flight from wro leaves 124510:30
Stskeepspohly: ta, i'll try to remember to add it (at trip)10:35
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Stskeepsdm8tbr: ok, so send me a message and i guess we'll find eachother in the airport :)10:37
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SageStskeeps: we really need to look at this touch issue on N90010:50
Sageit really is hard at times to use10:50
dcthangdefinitely, very difficult to use and the performance there really bad10:50
Sagedcthang: performance in general or touchperformance?10:51
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dcthangin gerneral10:51
dcthangtouch is really really ..cannot say :P10:52
Sagewell that is different story. we need to get memory usage even lower that it is now10:52
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Sagee.g. if possible polkitd and packagekitd should be stopped when not used. (not sure if that happens already though but that could be done I guess)10:56
veskuhSage: Do we have these:
Sagewe should have10:59
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Sageveskuh: -> nemo10:59
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zesterGood morning Mer folks from across the pond.13:55
Stskeepsgood morning zester13:55
zesterI have fedora 16 up and it's working well with citrus. The RPM python api works well and a peice of cake to use. Sooo all green so far.13:57
zesterI was a little concerned about using rpm due to past experiences but it appears, that those concerns have been taken care of over the years13:58
vgrademorning zester13:58
zesterMorning vgrade13:59
Stskeepsyeah, same for me when returning to it13:59
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Stskeepsmeeting dselect 10 years after.. not same feeling of joy13:59
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zesterScreenshot note: the changes are all under the hood but this show's what the mobile to tablet ui might look like. Warning it's pretty bare lol :)
* lbt would have thought a yellow submarine for citrus on mer14:03
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zesterGoing to tango with dbus(IPC) today.14:05
zesterExperament with a window manager abit.14:06
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zesterShould support for legacy apps(gimp, blender) even be a concern. Or will all apps be new from scratch?14:09
Stskeepsassume mobile apps,, fullscreen, maybe statusbar14:10
Stskeepsyou can't push 60fps without fullscreen14:10
zesterNo I mean, will apps like gimp be something you would find in Mer or is Mer to be though off more like android were all apps are fresh and new.14:11
Stskeepsassume it's a new paradigm14:12
Stskeepsmobile, not desktop14:12
Stskeepstouch, not WIMP14:13
zester:) Good I was hoping you would say that.14:13
zesterQt as about 90% of what's needed out of the box for a gimp like apps, 100% for inkscape like app.14:15
zesterI am thinking touchpaint14:15
zesterOr mobile 2d game creation studio for tablets, ... etc14:16
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zester60fps is ideal, 24 -35fps is average. X render's at about 24fps14:30
zesterYou don't notice the 24fps on X due to all the shared memory/buffing hacks inplace.14:31
Stskeepsmodern mobiles, 60fps or bust14:31
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zesterDo mobile displays even refresh that fast?14:32
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zesterWould Raspberry Pi be considered on the low end for Mer mobile?14:37
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zesterLike whats the lowest end hardware Mer would expect to encounter?14:42
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Stskeepsit remains to be seen how low mer can go14:43
Stskeepsit also depends on the uis14:43
harbaumthe n900 is imho lowest currently14:44
harbaumperhaps the earliert beagles14:44
Stskeepsfor mobile, yes, but mer uis could do no-gles and armv6 too14:44
harbaumthat's why i said "currently"14:45
harbaumand imho chances are low that poeple will spend much time with non-gles nowadays14:46
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Stskeepsarmv6 and gles is prolly lowest sane one14:46
harbaumalso, how much cheaper than the gles enabled rasp pi can you get? this is cheaper than 90% of all microcontroller dev boards14:47
harbaum(you know thos 8mhz 8k flash 2k ram things ...)14:47
Stskeepsfor products i'd say armv7 is lowest atm14:48
Stskeepseven for featurephones14:48
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zesterYahh I can't find anything except Pocoplug using Armv614:55
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zester:) I am on my 3rd revision for Citrus and each time, I think that I have a good enough base I find a better way. lol15:19
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nsuffyshello :)15:45
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lbt"Setting up img-ks"16:19
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* phaeron tries to remember img16:19
lbtyeah :)16:19
lbtI think it fails due to not having a boss install reachable16:20
phaeroncheck the log16:20 interrupted - IOError16:20
phaeronyeah sounds like it16:20
lbtamqp_host :  is wrong16:20
lbt"of course"16:21
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kulvedoes Mer require some kernel version at minimum? I.e. would 2.6.32 be enough?16:21
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lbtkulve: good questions16:21
lbtthe direct answer is "no"16:22
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lbtwe aim to define CONFIG_ options that must be set - practically of course there's a limit16:22
lbt2.6.32 should be fine though16:22
lbtthe new HA packaging runs a CONFIG_ check script which verifies your .config16:23
lbtso if that doesn't work please discuss/log a bug16:23
phaeronlbt: systemd needs a more recent version , or patches to backport the needed features, right ?16:23
kulveyou mean that some of those CONFIG_ options wouldn't be supported in .32?16:23
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lbtphaeron: honestly not sure16:24
lbtthat's why we have a wiki16:24
lbtbut it only works if knowledge migrates there :)16:24
lbtkulve: as it stands right now there's no documentation about that - I think .32 will work16:24
kulvelbt: ok. I might try it out16:25
phaeronhowever n900 / n950 hardware adaptation backports the needed features to older version16:25
lbtphaeron: yeah, that's gentoo16:25
* lbt is in a glass house here16:25
phaeronno that's systemd16:26
lbtsince he didn't push the git tree for his code16:26
kulvenext question. Is there an image of nemo mobile for beagle xm? My hardware has the same cpu so I might get something running with that rootfs and my .32 kernel..16:26
lbtwhich has citations for systemd pre-requisites16:26
smokuIIRC 2.6.36 is the minimum to work without patching16:26
kulveI can apply patches easily, if such exists for .32..16:26
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smokubut as phaeron mentioned, the patches for older kernel are already available in N900/N950 kernel16:26
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lbtsmoku: I'd like to have a generic statement that says ver <= kernel <= ver16:28
lbtand cgit.freedesktop seems down16:28
phaeronanother citation16:30
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lbtI guess that technically the presence of the CONFIG_ should support backports16:31
lbtit may be good to note when they appeared in mainline16:31
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lbtnb ...3/4 running now16:31
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phaeronfor pandaboard , but I am looking for docs16:32
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kulveI guess I can't use pandaboard images directly on 3730 because at least the SGX stuff would be different?16:32
phaeronThat's as much as I know or can find, sorry :)16:33
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phaeronmaybe Sage can help16:33
kulvewell, it's not that urgent yet16:34
phaeronlbt: maybe I can ssh to img tonight and help16:34
phaeronbut I have to leave home circa 5am :(16:34
kulveI'll hopefully have the time to try it out at some point and I will ask more then when I have more exact problems. Thanks :)16:34
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tiddlypomHello.  Can anyone tell me if Mer is able to run on a Nokia N800?  If not, what is needed to get it going?20:10
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bigbluehattiddlypom: there's work being done20:12
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bigbluehattiddlypom: check this wiki page:
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Sagephaeron: help with what? kulve?20:19
phaeronSage: he was asking about pandaboard adaptation20:20
Sagekulve: .32 isn't enough it needs couple of patches but our n950 adaptation has those that are needed20:21
SageN950 adaptation uses .32 kernel and is working quite well20:21
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cxl000tiddlypom I have not made an n8x0 image recently. Last person to try reported not getting any touch events.20:22
cxl000Is fbset built for Mer anywhere?20:22
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vgradecxl000, I think stskeeps was playing with busybox which I think has it. but not seen standalone20:28
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tiddlypomOK, thanks all, just had a look at
tiddlypomNot sure this helps much, though.20:37
zester_Skype's SDK api's are terrable.20:37
Stskeepswhat do you need fbset for?20:38
tiddlypomAnyone here testing on N800 other than cxl000?20:41
Stskeepsat some point i'd like to put my n8xps back into use20:41
bigbluehattiddlypom: I'd like to be…I just haven't made the time to get up to speed on it20:49
bigbluehathow easy is it?…since we're all here? :)20:49
cxl000some existing scripts for the Pandora use it.20:49
Stskeepscxl000: btw, ever considered something like directfb on n8x0?20:49
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cxl000I've not looked at directfb recently.20:52
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Stskeepsi was pondering to perhaps use the pvr2d api that does work on it20:53
Stskeepsie, using the  3d drivers for -something-20:53
vgradedoes a jig \o/20:54
Stskeepson spark?20:55
Stskeepsso it was the same driver or?20:55
vgradeno , FT150320:55
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vgradesorry, FT530120:59
Stskeepsgood to know it works :)21:00
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harbaum_so the spark will become what the cordia tab was supposed to be ...21:31
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wmarone_it's hitting the exact same problems21:34
wmarone_and the screen is lesser, which is critical21:34
_av500_I wonder why they talk to random chinese companies and not to people next door...21:35
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harbaum_the screen is "lesser" ??21:36
_av500_not as good I guess21:37
_av500_or less resolution21:37
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harbaum_who'd you talk to?21:45
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_av500_us :)21:50
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harbaum_what device would you suggest?21:52
wmarone_it's 800x480 last I read21:52
wmarone_and no word on TN/IPS21:52
harbaum_i know some of those are being tested with mer, so something must cause them not to talk to you ...21:52
_av500_wmarone_: 800x480 is a bit last year21:52
wmarone__av500_: more than that21:53
_av500_wmarone_: right21:53
vgradeyes work is going on with Mer / PA21:54
wmarone_if it isn't then that's great :)21:56
wmarone_nah, aseigo's blog lists it as 800x48021:57
harbaum_the cheapest archos seems to be a archos 80 g9 8gb for € 234. that has all the drivers to run mer?22:01
_av500_there is also an omap3 based one 7" for 19922:02
_av500_to be released soon22:02
_av500_sgx drivers we should be able to provide, and they are the same as for the panda22:03
_av500_same for wifi/BT22:03
harbaum_mer sgx runs slowly on panda i have been told ....22:03
wmarone_which reminds me, going to tackle wifi on nook tonight22:04
_av500_wmarone_: 1271?22:04
harbaum_why nocontacting the spark guy. if he's facing problems with the chinese supplier he shoudld be more than open for alternatives22:04
wmarone_harbaum_: tell that to smoku22:04
_av500_wmarone_: there is Luca256 in #pandaboard, he wrote the oss driver at ti22:05
wmarone_oh, cool22:05
wmarone_I'll have to find the version that compiles for my kernel22:05
wmarone_thought so22:06
harbaum_the omap3 based one should even be able to run something close to my beagle setup. But the beagle (800mhz omap3 + 512 mb ram) is not really able to run pa fluidly22:07
wmarone_the upstream one won't work but this one should22:07
* wmarone_ clones for later22:07
wmarone_harbaum_: don't kill my joy before I get there ;p22:07
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harbaum_i have to admit that it's been some time since i booted plasma on the beagle. but it seemed pa needs a little more mhz/ram than the beagle has22:08
harbaum_nemo runs much more fluid on the same hw. and i would expect cordia to also run better22:10
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_av500_cordia is what?22:14
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harbaum_cordia is basically maemo5 ported/rewritten for mer22:17
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sheldon_hi, i'm following this README guide ( to install Mer on Asus TF101 Transformer22:19
sheldon_but i have this error22:19
sheldon_rcm version 0X4 Command send failed (usb write failed)22:20
sheldon_i'm on an android nvflash rom (revolver rom)22:20
sheldon_any chance to solve this22:22
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vgradesheldon_, hi23:25
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vgradeno wonder microsoft want to lock those arm devices down,
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wmarone_yeah, can't have non-windows platforms trying to take advantage of good hardware23:51
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