Wednesday, 2012-01-18

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juhi24tried to install nemo on my n900 today. no luck. uboot boots to maemo. rewrote the image a couple of times on kingston class 10 8Gt microsd. where to start troubleshooting00:47
lbt ?00:50
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lbtthat's your comment at the bottom00:51
lbtit sounds like the card doesn't have the image on it correctly00:51
lbtalso try #nemomobile00:52
lbtbut it's 1am here and -> bed I'm afraid00:52
juhi24ok ty for the tips. tried rewriting tho. good night00:53
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sonachGood afternoon!05:32
berndhsok i say for a bit before i go to sleep05:33
berndhslook at for interesting non-disclosure05:33
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plateis it a joke that the document isnt openable05:40
platei had to copy the PDF link out of the querystring and wget it05:40
platead then its blank05:40
platei cant tell if its gfail + evince fuckin gup as it likes to do05:40
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plategiven theres a thumbnail of an inforaphic, it seems like theyd want it clickable?05:41
Stskeepsanyway, on a more on-topic matter, i'm planning on a prerelease of Mer this morning05:41
plateis there an image i can DD mer onto a SD card and pop in my n900 or what05:42
Stskeepsusually you'd do that with nemo05:42
plateim realyl sick of maemo being so detached from manmline debian sid05:42
plateok , i'll google nemo05:42
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plate(if google isnt shutdown due to SOPA or so)05:42
Stskeepsand be aware that mer isn't derived from debian05:42
platewell, i despise rpm, and QT05:42
plateso thats why i havent bothered with mer so far05:42
plategimme paludis or pacman, and if nothing else, apt/dpkg05:43
* Stskeeps gets coffee05:43
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platemost of my maemo/n900 probs seems intractable though. proprietary driver taht will never be fixed05:43
platestuff like if the GPS app is open, FM radio craps out every 30 seconsd or so05:44
plateand all sorts of bizarre VOIP bugs, but i tried Ekiga and that was even worse. so i guess i'll live with them05:44
plateall my depising of rpm was due to trying red hat once in 1996. mayvbe its nowhere near as aggravating today what iwht 15 years of potential bugfixes05:44
Stskeepsit seems a lot more saner today, yes05:45
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Stskeepsi've used both and i like the way meego derived systems do rpm packaging05:47
Stskeepsit's not as insane as i've seen it around the place05:47
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wmarone_when did redhat introduce yum?05:47
berndhs90s sometime05:49
platei was additinally trying it on mklinux kernel on 6100 powermac. so dep-hell was amplified by the nonexistence of binaries to begin with05:49
platemy favorite bug was the HD was constantly clicking due to some 1000ms stat() of something not on a tmpfs and not cached05:50
plateseemed to be two locations exactly on each side of the hd's platter05:50
Stskeepsi find that most opinions about either rpm or deb is because people tried it 10 years ago and hated either one05:50
Stskeepsi hated debian originally :P05:50
Stskeepsbut nowadays i do both05:50
platei still do05:50
plate/var/lib/dpkg/status is a monolithic pile parsed by a hodgepodge of ancient utilities and regex05:51
plateat least gentoo uses a series of directories and files to store its package manaagement state05:51
berndhsi tried the OCTA bus #89 few days ago, is nice, decent latency05:51
platewouldnt even mind SQLite at this point05:51
* Stskeeps hopes the new linker hash style helps some things05:53
plateany bus errors, berndhs05:53
berndhsdeb and rpm is both real messy, for similar stupid reasons, rpm less so05:53
berndhsthe only bus error was a guy in a wheelchair who was slightly confused05:54
berndhsbut south end of OCTA 89 is a nice place05:54
Stskeepssince the mail-archive is offline due to protesting PIPA/SOPA, is the changelog of the latest mer prerelease05:56
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sonachStskeeps: What do you mean by "mail-archive is offline"? I can see your email of Mer prelrelease.06:09
befordthe website06:10
sonach"" is OK, and "" is OK, too...06:10
Stskeepssonach: there is a law under discussion in the US that seeks to enable censorship, people are protesting it by making their websites go offline today, and is one of them, which hosts our mailing lists06:11
Stskeepssonach: just explaining what i meant, i don't want to have political discussions here :)06:12
Stskeepsok, it doesn't host our mailing lists, it hosts our mailing list archive, that is06:12
Stskeepsanyway, guys: the community OBS has been updated with the new prerelease06:16
Stskeepshopefully it doesn't break things06:16
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sonachI see:)06:18
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dcthangmorning, this bug is not fixed still?
Stskeepsit's partially fixed, and that bug is better discussed in #nemomobile07:47
slainemorning all07:48
Stskeepsmorn slaine07:49
* slaine runs make update on mervm07:49
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Stskeepsmorn veskuh07:52
w00tmoin veskuh08:04
veskuhhi w00t08:04
w00thow's things?08:05
veskuhNormal stuff, it was nice meeting you yesterday.08:08
matrixxnice meeting you two yesterday ;)08:10
w00tit was a good night, shame i had to leave so early08:11
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w00ti was absolutely exhausted by the time i got back home :P08:11
veskuhmatrixx: interesting stuff on the meetup, I will try to attend more often in future.08:11
matrixxveskuh: glad you liked, I hope we can start having qt meetups monthly08:12
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matrixxw00t: almost everyone left after the first beer :)08:13
* w00t made a chain effect? :(08:14
matrixxpossibly :P08:15
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Stskeepsmorn mdfe_08:18
Stskeepsmdfe_: new mer prerelease, please report any problems :)08:18
mdfe_cool qt-4.8 :)08:22
w00t(if it breaks, it totally isn't my fault)08:23
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Stskeepsmorn Termana09:00
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Sagemdfe_: ping09:29
mdfe_what a overhead to send a submit request....09:30
Sagemdfe_: well it is not packaged correctly09:30
Sagemdfe_: more content of %changes from .spec to less.changes09:31
mdfe_i see09:31
Sagemdfe_: and check
mdfe_that check_has_valid_repo is also scary09:32
mdfe_that check_has_valid_repo check is also scary09:32
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mdfe_sorry I'm running out of time09:34
Stskeepswhat is it we're running through the submission process?09:37
mdfe_adding new repos is works fine on a project, but not removing if someone link against09:38
mdfe_Stskeeps: sounds good to me09:39
lbtstarted to put docs onto the wiki09:44
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lbtmorning phaeron09:45
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Stskeepstimoph: so what issues are you having?10:22
timophcan't get the mer toolchain working10:22
Stskeepsok, show me errors/steps?10:22
timophnot on that machine now :(10:22
Stskeepswell, when you are ;)10:22
timophit didn't find some library that can't remember right now10:23
timophand a lot of mapping eroors10:23
StskeepsSage, lbt:
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Stskeepsphaeron: i've cherrypicked some of the stuff from your tools dir, will integrate into core likely10:28
Stskeepsyes, we can't do it any other way10:28
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phaeronStskeeps: which ones :)10:29
* lbt waits for emacs in core10:29
timophwhere was the cross compiler package?10:29
Stskeepslbt: long story short: core needs to build it's own kickstart files, 2) people will build against core, not against tools when making their own kickstarter configurations and kickstart files10:30
Stskeepsso that's the rationale10:31
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Stskeepsyou know me, i'm picky about ought to go into core and what shouldn't10:31
SageStskeeps: what needs those python things kickstarter?10:31
StskeepsSage: right10:32
Sagethat seems a bit much but not possible10:32
Stskeepsok, we can drop python-urlgrabber it looks like10:33
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phaeronI am leaning towards building config packages in separate project hierarchy.10:33
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phaeronif you really want to have the resulting rpms in core repo then aggregate it10:34
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* timoph fail10:35
lbtI don't think the kickstarts should be in core10:35
phaeronbrb coffee :)10:35
lbtmobile devices don't need to self-host10:35
lbtisn't this where the SDK comes in?10:35
Stskeepsokay, so, the kickstarts will have to go into the release directory structure, which means, i have to be able to find them from somewhere10:36
Stskeepsand they have to match exactly what the core contains10:36
Stskeepsmobile devices don't need to self-host, right, but currently, the core does need to10:36
lbtto the ks level?10:37
lbtthe directory thing.... sounds a bit of a red-herring10:37
Stskeepsthat, or i install mer-kickstarter on the release generation host.10:38
lbtit feels like we need a way to release which includes generated ks10:38
lbtkinda, yes10:38
lbtalthough I think BOSS type stuff would work too10:38
Stskeepsby that logic, package groups shouldn't be part of the core either, and no, we don't have BOSS for this right now10:39
Stskeepsthis is the practical solution right now, what people should focus on is the kickstarter configs10:39
Stskeepsnot the kickstarts10:39
lbtI think the mer-ks-configs belong in core10:40
lbtjust to be clear10:40
Stskeepsok, good10:40
lbtas do the pkg groups10:40
lbtjust because we *can* build ks10:40
lbtdoesn't mean we have to ... does it?10:40
lbtat least ,..10:41
lbtit should be totally reproducable outside our release process10:41
SageI agree with lbt that we shouldn't put those to core. But also we need to distribute those with releases. So how about making one extra dir level to release structure?10:41
Stskeepsno, but since we don't have the alternatives right now..?10:41
lbtwhereas the mer-ks-config isn'10:41
SageCore & Tools e.g.10:41
StskeepsSage: it is going there, unpacked from the rpm10:41
lbtStskeeps: I'm also happy with a pragmatic solution and a bug to remove them10:42
SageStskeeps: ?10:42
lbtsage I thought that10:42
StskeepsSage: ie, release script will make a kickstarts/ dir with the contents of the rpm10:42
lbtSage: we could have "authoritative" and "convenience"10:43
lbtks and things are convenience and can be made from authoritative10:43
SageStskeeps: in what dir would that go?10:43
StskeepsSage: probably10:44
Stskeepsand then eventually /images/ for the built tar.gz'es10:44
Sageor something10:45
Sagethat builds dir is a bit confusing IMO :)10:46
* lbt thinks we should aim to split core and tools releases too10:46
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SageIMO it would be clearer to release them both at the same time, but I can see why you would want to split those as well.10:49
StskeepsSage: does mic support bootstrapping from two repos?10:50
Sageso my suggestion would be release simultaneously for now and when there is need separate.10:50
SageStskeeps: If it doesn't we should make it so that it does10:51
SageStskeeps: otherwise core will be bloated a lot10:51
lbtyes, I'd be happy to co-release Tools with core and say which Tools core was built with ... which also permits split releases later10:51
Stskeepscore wouldn't need to be built with tools, it's reverse, tools build against core10:51
SageStskeeps: :nod:10:52
lbtmmmm was thinking of code relases....10:52
Stskeepseventually i'd like to split core onto toolchain and core, but that's something else10:52
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lbtand that was what I was thinking too10:53
lbtthat the toolchain would be quite static10:53
lbtso nm10:53
SageStskeeps: well I would like to see Qt separeted from Core but well I see the point keeping it there as well ;)10:53
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Sagelately qt has bloated the core a lot and will increase in size later on more I guess.10:54
Stskeepsok, anyway, i don't want to split core into core and tools at this particular moment, just before an actual release10:56
Stskeepsand we need to get the procedure of deriving from our kickstarter configs going10:56
Stskeepsso i can either 1) integrate all of those into core, 2) only integrate the kickstarter configs and then do the .ks building at release time manually10:57
lbtit's easier to automate10:57
Stskeepswe also need to think about how nemo will build their .ks'es in that case10:57
Stskeepsin which case 1) is easier10:58
lbtthat's what sage is for...10:58
lbt(and me if I get my finger out....)10:58
Stskeepsso we agree tools would be what goes into platform sd?11:02
lbtsounds right11:02
lbtI would very much like to outline "how to do it today"11:02
lbtand then work through moving that to the sdk11:03
Stskeepscan we build about opensuse in cobs?11:04
lbtand phaeron made it DoD which means no outages11:04
phaeronfor debian and opensuse 11.4 there are toplevel targets that uses download on demand11:05
Stskeepsok, i'll go for 2) then11:06
phaeroninstead of linking against , as they had problems over the weekend11:06
phaerondo we have other targets we care about ?11:06
lbtbut I think the SDK will help a fair amount11:07
* lbt looks sadly at empty coffee cup...11:07
phaeronok I'll setup those during the day11:07
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Stskeepscan you try to install mpfr?11:24
Stskeepsalso, how did you sb2-init11:24
timophI did - didn't help11:24
timophsb2-init -c /home/timoph/bin/sb2/bin/qemu-arm mersb2 /opt/cross/bin/armv7l-meego-linux-gnueabi-gcc11:25
Stskeepssb2 -m emulate11:25
* timoph tries11:25
Stskeeps is a proper armv7hl gcc btw11:27
timoph/bin/bash: gcc: command not found11:27
timophdifferent error at least :)11:27
Stskeepsok, progress11:27
Stskeepsls -l /usr/lib/libmpfr*11:27
Stskeepsgood reason why we need platform sdk :P11:28
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timophhmmh. 'sb2 -eR zypper ref' works though11:44
timophso seems it's the compiler that doesn't work11:45
Stskeepsmight be, or the mapping11:46
timophactually I'd guess mapping11:46
Stskeepsbut yeah, compiler not being self-contained is probably a reason11:46
timophany ideas on how to move forward?11:48
Stskeepsbrewing on the platform sdk tools set as a start11:49
Stskeepsthen we can build .ks'es for it11:49
timophmaking it a package group, etc?11:50
timophis there a list of the needed tools somewhere?11:51
Stskeepsyeah, and having the cross compilers installed in it11:51
lbtCan we please have the SDK built from a description of what it is and not vice-versa :)11:52
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lbtjust mentioning that the order of things should produce some docs/spec before a ks11:55
slainefrom experience, get the requirements documented and agreed first11:55
lbtnot a full on pdf report .... just an outline :)11:55
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timophhence my questiong "is there a list of needed things somewhere" :). If not we need to create it to the wiki and start filling it11:56
* lbt -> dentist .... back later ... timoph ... I'd like to work on this with you too11:56
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lbttimoph: see the log from the SDK meeting last week?11:57
timophdentist... the old school boy excuse :p11:57
timophlbt: I did (and was there at the meeting)11:57
* lbt needs an ECC brain11:58
timophbut yeah. I need to reread it since there's a couple of things the might need some clearing11:58
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Stskeepstimoph: is a good chroot start12:14
Stskeepstimoph: fakeroot-1.12.4-22.3.i586.rpm in same dir and scratchbox2-2.3.19-19.3.i586.rpm12:16
Stskeepsand 'mer' is the user12:16
niqtSage: when i install connman i lost a connection and  have "wifi is not avalialbel on this device"12:18
timophStskeeps: will try it later this evening12:18
* timoph needs to do some paid work while sitting in the office for a change :p12:19
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Sageniqt: well there might be bugs in that connman.12:32
Sageit should work fine though12:32
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StskeepsSage: what was the story with python-zypp?14:28
Sageit was being merged to some other thing14:29
Sageo_0 harmattan says that password max lenght is 814:30
Sagewhen doing passwd developer14:30
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lbtphaeron: do we have an OBS build? in cobs?14:59
phaeronnot that I know of14:59
lbtOK - SR was talking about it14:59
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StskeepsScriptRipper: happy birthday!15:39
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harbaumTizen and Bada to merge ... Bada apps on Mer? Bada apps seem to be native arm code,so this might work to some extent16:10
Stskeepsyes, from a RTOS of some kind16:11
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harbaumi walways like these "merge" things. In reality someone will hack some loader and a set of interface libs from ground up16:13
harbaumThis aslways sounds as if you just take the source code of two operating systems, compile them together and that#s it16:14
harbaumfor some reason i am unable to type "always"16:14
Stskeepssounds like a nasty turf war, too16:16
lbtI needed to tweak the config back to pre-patch levels16:23
lbtnow I don't think we should support multi-arch in one package16:23
lbtjust no need16:23
lbtbut I do want a build in arm16:23
Stskeepswhy not, out of curiousity?16:23
Stskeepsit's just ARCH=arm vs not16:23
lbtextra .spec complexity to select the .config ?16:23
lbtand no, the CONFIG_ selections are different16:24
lbteg look at
* Stskeeps isn't sure what you mean16:24
Stskeepsin one package yes16:25
Stskeepsbut in one template package16:25
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lbtnow I don't think we should support multi-arch >>> in one package <<<16:25
Stskeepsthat i do agree16:25
lbtbut I should upload another... with another .config *and no other changes*16:25
lbtthat should build for aerm16:25
lbtbut ... I'll copypac the kernel first16:26
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lbtStskeeps: also, whilst you're interrupted... :)16:27
lbtclick around a bit - see the 'about category guidelines' too16:28
lbtalso see application in   which is (I think) shorter than it would be and sufficiently rich to be useful16:29
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Julian__Hello everybody. I want to avoid asking any newbish questions, so can anybody point me to a place where I can find out if Nemo (on n900) is ready for everyday use (voice, sms, alarm)?17:11
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tpnStskeeps: That clears a few things up for me too :P17:36
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lbtn900-home: I completely agree17:44
lbtn900-home: I completely agree17:46
n900-homebut if you remove the swap?17:46
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* n900-home ñëóøàåò: MC Zhan & DJ Riga @
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lbtn900-home: no spamming please17:53
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n900-homeno spam)17:53
lbtok - I get an unreachable page on some kind of 'friends' site ... hard to tell :)17:54
n900-home-Ïåðåâîä-: <lbt> ùë - Ø ïóå ôò ãòêóôñðôèäó çôïó ùò ûùüó ëøòâ ùà ýàêøóòâûý ûøåó þþþ ðôêâ åù åóää Æ)17:54
n900-homeit is a social network .. Type of Twitter ....17:55
lbtah, OK17:56
n900-homeWant to hear the best dance tracks?)17:58
lbtreally, no17:58
lbtmaybe try #meego-bar ?17:58
lbtmore of a chat/OT area :)17:59
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vgradethere will be a Plasma Active 3 planning meeting tomorrow on #active 15:00 UTC.  I will pop in18:07
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lbtvgrade: so... emgd for the joggler...18:09
vgradecan we do this later I need to taxi Alex to bowling?18:09
vgradeping you later18:10
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Stskeeps      lz18:20
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matrixxStskeeps: nice, added myself there :)18:36
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lbtStskeeps:   line 4 is OK  yet line 20 fails ... any ideas?19:00
Stskeepsstop having the rats eating your cables? seriously though, trigger a rebuild perhaps?19:04
Stskeepslooks like an old state perhps19:04
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lbttriggered rebuild... rebooted obs19:06
lbtand worker19:06
lbtI went in and changed the remotehost to fqdn ...
lbtit's got the non-fqdn cached somewhere19:08
* lbt decides a career in landscape gardening might be a good idea19:09
Stskeepssorry for not being too helpful, think i'm hitting a flu atm :P19:10
Stskeepsso very slowly thinking19:10
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lbtbastard thing19:11
lbtosc rebuild .... same error19:11
lbttouch nothing; osc ar; osc ci .... works19:11
lbtosc rebuild seems to be not fully triggering a check19:12
lbtOK ... thanks for listening (and phaeron1 :) ) ... it helps when you can imagine what you'd suggest :)19:13
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vgradelbt,, I'll be back after dinner19:29
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tpntanghus: You can help me pick a theme now (and anyone else of course) :
tpnurgh -.- wrong room _again_20:09
Stskeepshehe, cool though20:09
tpnlol unintented plug honest20:10
Stskeepsyou should see the editors for the OBS, little bit of human-computer interaction trainining i had makes the cringe20:11
Stskeepser, makes me cringe20:11
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slainecame across dawati this evening20:29
* Stskeeps looks20:30
slainemoblin/meego ux20:31
slainewondering what it means for tizen netbook20:31
slainetizen clearly mentioned20:31
slainehowever, searching for dawati on tizen site is empty20:31
Stskeepswell it's good if they can get rid of the trademark stuff20:33
Stskeepsit looks like it uses gtk+3 as well20:34
Stskeepsso that's a step up from meego20:35
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slaineall the same people at the open hand lab too by the looks of github20:36
slainemight make an interesting netbook ux for mer20:36
Stskeepsit might, for those who's interested20:36
Stskeepswe already have one gtk+ based ux, so20:37
slainewe do ?20:37
slaineoh right20:38
slainehaven't seen anything on that in ages, forgot about it20:38
Stskeepsas long as i don't have to include the full gnome stack or gtk+ into mer core, anyone can do whatever they want :)20:38
Stskeepssaw the work we're doing on making images easier to design?20:39
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slaineI saw yourself and lbt start to discuss it but I was very busy today so didn't keep a close eye on it20:39
Stskeeps  -- mer/ is the stuff people inherit from, mer-reference-images is an example configuration20:39
Stskeepsks/ is generated .ks'es (that version is buggy)20:40
slaineyeah, was looking at the kickstarter files yesterday actually20:40
Stskeepsone of anas's tools modified a bit20:41
slaineI've manually created my kickstart files upto now20:41
slainedoes yaml automate that ?20:41
Stskeepsand ability for us to modify something in our base configurations too20:42
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Stskeepsthe goal is to be able to do off-the-shelf kind of feeling, ie, pick this hardware adaptation from this vendor, this ux from another, customize a bit..20:45
slainevery nice20:45
Stskeepsalso to provide generic mer .ks'es along with releases20:46
Stskeepssomething we used to have :P20:46
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norayrBesides, I missed the reaction on released tizen sources. Do you think (sitll) it is feasible to sync with them?20:47
norayrAlso, it seems they miss some components like qt20:48
Stskeepsnot surprised20:48
Stskeepsit's a efl+html5 stack20:48
Stskeepsi'm waiting until at least their beta before i comment on the architecture in a blog post or something like that20:48
Stskeepsalso because there seems to be possibly two different stacks, one that's SLP (deb) based, another that's RPM based20:48
Stskeepsso, i don't have a huge interest in syncing on packaging when we're RPM vs DEB, but i think the app story (html5) still makes sense20:49
Stskeepsand that's something that'd be valuable to share20:50
Stskeepsbut the actual released stack that's published right now, besides the web runtime? i would have to be paid double than what i am normally paid, in order to make a tizen product20:51
Stskeepsso i'll let you conclude from there what i think about it20:51
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vgradelbt ping20:53
lbthey vgrade20:53
vgradelinks any use?20:53
lbtStskeeps: is u-boot usually HW specific?20:53
Stskeepslbt: typically yes20:54
lbtbeen browsing them but doing kernel HA for arm20:54
lbtStskeeps: OK - ta20:54
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lbtvgrade: the std emgd built here20:55
lbtbbiab though20:55
slaineme too, kids bed times20:56
Stskeepshello mee_20:57
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slainemeh, late, off to bed22:14
slainecatch you tomorrow22:14
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