Wednesday, 2011-12-14

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_av500_has broken05:54
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dm8tbrlike the first build05:54
_av500_Stskeeps has not spoken05:55
dm8tbrpraise for the source, praise for the git06:04
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* Stskeeps clings to the coffee cup06:31
* w00t hasn't even gotten that far yet06:36
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Stskeepszumbi_: if they have working 3d on 2.6.32 and up that should be plausible06:54
Stskeeps_Thomas: saw ?06:55
Stskeepsit seems like the fashion of tiny tiny devices has finally come to the world :)06:56
dm8tbrmeh another marvell soc06:57
dm8tbrSage: I see movement in the igloo git. 21min ago 4 commits, no license change yet though07:01
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Sagedm8tbr: Would really like to see the license change :)07:13
SageCould finish my snowball port then07:13
* dm8tbr too, but I'm giving them still an hour or so before I shoot andrea an email asking why they didn't fix it while touching the code07:13
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SageStskeeps: btw, there is still couple of libs I'm going to check with the package updates and then most probably go for the xorg-x11-* packages and see which one of those can be easily updated at first. But those will be after a week or so when the current list is getting smaller :)07:17
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_ThomasStskeeps: Yes, saw it07:26
Sageyey, someone fix part of the problems I was having with the mic :)07:27
SageI'm going to do testing with mic tomorrow if we could start utilizing that in our images as well.07:28
Stskeepscould be good07:31
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* Stskeeps ruffles some feathers:
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_av500_Tizen is giving out stamps?07:44
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Stskeepscompliancy stamps, i presume07:45
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_av500_I hoped food stamps07:45
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Stskeepsjust occasionally obs is too damn flaky08:40
Stskeepsreturning a zero length response isn't cool08:40
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phaeronStskeeps: yeah we have a bug about that. upstream claims it doesn't happen with 2.3 on apache08:41
Stskeepsi use 2.3 on apache and it does that to me08:42
phaeronyep cobs too08:42
phaeronit's just not reproducable so they refuse to acknowledge08:42
Stskeepsprobably another of those "obs is idle, so let's mess up crap" things :P08:42
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SageStskeeps: log not showing problem discussed ^ ?08:53
* Sage branches zypper08:56
SageStskeeps: ok, zypper fails actually09:02
* Stskeeps curses qemu09:02
Sage//usr/include/augeas.h:24:25: fatal error: libxml/tree.h: No such file or directory09:03
Sagejust a augeas packaging problem09:03
* Sage fixes09:03
Stskeepsso, qemu..09:03
Stskeepsthere was somethng about harmattan not liking qemu 0.15 on obs?09:04
Sageyes, what about the qemu 1.0 ? :)09:04
Stskeepsnew toolchain breaks qemu on armv6 because it actually uses proper memory barriers09:05
Stskeepsand 0.15 linaro has the fix09:05
SageX-Fade: might know better about the harmattan problems with newer qemu09:06
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Stskeepsmorn bergie09:09
Sagecan .pc file depend on other .pc file?09:11
Sageaugeas requires libxml2 and atm. when compiling zypper it doesn't get the libxml2 include path properly.09:12
Stskeepsthere's a Requires: thing09:12
Sageah, nice09:13
bergiehey Stskeeps09:17
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bergieStskeeps: I sent some comments to your proposed call09:29
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bergiewe should also ask for volunteers to help run the room09:30
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Stskeepsyeah, i'm not really subscribed to fosdem lists and such so it'd be good if you could send it out as you proposed it09:31
Stskeeps(as i replied)09:31
Stskeepsand yes, volunteers would be good too09:31
cxl000sage I gathered some battery management metrics on n810. I could see the capacity decreasing over time. Then I enabled charging and capacity was increased. Not tried the edge cases of fully charge or fully discharged.09:32
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bergieStskeeps: can we use your address for getting the abstracts?09:37
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Stskeepsyeah, sure09:37
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bergiewhat about the dates? We should have a deadline for proposals09:40
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Stskeepsand announcement on 7th, - i mean, it's lightning talk style talks, so if you want to come and participate, you're likely to have already booked09:42
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Stskeepslooks good09:47
Stskeepsi'll send to a couple of meego related lists09:48
Stskeepsand mer-generl09:49
dm8tbrnice, noticed yesterday that we didn't have a call yet09:50
Stskeepsyou forgot the volunteer part09:50
bergieah, I'll edit the blog post09:50
Stskeepsyou'll post on g+ too?09:51
bergiemy blog will go to MeeGo, Maemo, GNOME and KDE planets09:55
Stskeepsok, mailed mer, meego-dev, tizen09:55
dm8tbrthe bergie solar system ;)09:55
bergiedm8tbr: ;-)09:57
bergieStskeeps: I can post to FMC and TMO10:12
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bergieBTW, let me know when you start getting presentation proposals :-)10:18
Stskeepsalready getting questions about potential proposals10:19
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bergiewhile not exactly open mobile linux, it might be interesting to invite this guy:
bergieto talk how he actually does his development on a tablet10:21
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SageStskeeps: why iw is in the mer core btw?10:35
Stskeepsiwconfig.. wpa supplicant10:35
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Stskeepsi think10:36
StskeepsSymbolRequired by10:36
Stskeepsiw = 0.9.21-1.3crda10:36
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Sageah, ok10:38
bergieok, now it is also on
bergiePlasma is interesting, but they really need better graphics10:41
Stskeepsso does most oss projects :P10:42
bergieI mean... white icons on a light grey background??10:43
bergielight grey in general is something I hoped we had left behind to Windows 9510:43
Stskeepswhite on dark kinda had a renessiance with AMOLED ;)10:43
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bergieI think generally keeping the chrome dark makes sense, leaves more "space" for the actual contents of your app to stand out10:44
SageStskeeps: updated cdra now when it was talked about :)10:47
Sageyet another easy update10:47
Stskeepsi have to make project-wide qemu before i can release the next mer release, at least10:49
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Stskeepsisn't how i want it to look10:53
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HurrianStskeeps, how do I change the meego kernel root device?10:54
Hurrianit's apparently hardcoded into the kernel config10:54
StskeepsHurrian: mer doesn't have hardware adaptations, what device are you talking about?10:54
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Hurrianforgot about that.10:59
StskeepsHurrian: OK, are you trying to change it with flasher or with uboot?10:59
Stskeepsusing a set args kind of thing?11:00
Hurriannope. i was thinking i'd just decompress the kernel, edit the bootargs, recompress and load it, loading root filesystem from eMMC p411:02
Stskeepsshould be possible to provide command line from outside11:03
Stskeepswe do it with flasher kernel loading11:03
Hurrianwith the USB issue on the N900, i'm a bit uncomfortable to do that. but otherwise, i usually load MeeGo CE builds using flasher. nemo's looking semi-usable, so i want to use u-boot and switch freely between maemo and meego (multiboot sometimes fails to properly flash kernels, and bombs the boot process)11:05
Stskeepsisn't it just easier to buy an external microsd?11:05
Sage\o/ it works :D11:10
* Sage wrong chan11:10
Hurrianexternal microsd?11:11
Stskeepsyes, don't use emmc11:11
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Hurrianah. k then, moving nitdroid installation to internal mmc11:12
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Stskeeps <- SB2 building a ARM package in a KVM and extracting built packages11:37
* Stskeeps breaks out the champagne11:37
X-FadeStskeeps: Cool!11:38
veskuhStskeeps: Brilliant!11:41
Stskeepsstill some bugs to iron out but :)11:42
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leinir*nods* Good idea with the champagne there, got to keep yourself up there on the peak ;)11:54
* Stskeeps heads out for some food 11:56
Stskeepsbbl 1 hour11:56
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SageStskeeps: those sensorfw and poppler failure seem to be bogus as those are compiling fine in my project with all those updates in.12:27
Stskeepsyes, it is fallout from toolchain12:28
Stskeepsi will reevaluate them12:28
Sagethat zypper problem is real and need to inspect it more.12:28
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marquizStskeeps: out of curiosity, did the long discussion about sb2/obs/build @meego-dev (few months ago) lead to any practical results/contributions/ ?12:55
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Stskeepsmarquiz: well, the stuff i just posted yes, the author has responded very well to my bugs and feature requests12:58
Stskeepsthink it was mostly underdocumented12:58
Stskeepsand people not realizing what sb2 was capable of12:59
marquizok, good to hear ;)13:01
* Sage ponders if he could drop some of the libzypp & zypper patches13:01
marquizStskeeps: you just posted what?13:02
Sageoh, satsolver has been obsoleted13:03
Stskeepsmarquiz: sb2 compiling a arm package in a 'osc build' kvm/chroot to completion13:03
StskeepsSage: architectual backlog please13:06
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Sagelibzypp is using libsatsolver to solve the package dependencies. Apparently that has been obsolted and now they have libsolv instead that has buildin bindings for python etc.13:06
Sagelibsatsolver source package is over 50M :)13:07
X-FadeStskeeps: It also does debs ;)13:07
Stskeepsalready convinced13:07
BostikSage: eeeekk!13:07
StskeepsX-Fade: mm?13:08
SageX-Fade: really?13:08
X-FadeStskeeps: Sorry, next tab ;)13:08
marquizStskeeps: where did you post that? (what a coincidence that i happened to ask that)13:08
X-FadeSage: Yes, we found an issue with importing Harmattan debs in obs, turned out to be in libsolv :)13:09
SageNeed to look at that and update our zypper with those deps13:09
SageStskeeps: how would you feel if we would take zypper straight from opensuse without any patches?13:10
StskeepsSage: what patches do we need?13:10
ScriptRipperX-Fade can you be more specific on " issue with importing Harmattan debs in obs, turned out to be in libsolv"13:10
Sagewe shouldn't need any and if we need those should be upstreamed13:10
marquizStskeeps: thx, sorry for bothering about that ;)13:11
SageStskeeps: libzypp has 14 patches and zypper 313:11
Stskeepsmarquiz: np :) i think this could yield to something useful for all obs plus cross compile users13:11
StskeepsSage: will look in 10, in bus13:12
Sagedm8tbr: it seems that they pushed the updates as they released new linux BSP for snowball, didn't fix the licenses yet though.13:12
marquizStskeeps: yep, i still wonder why i really happened to ask this now, and missed the few lines in irc log :D13:12
Stskeepsmarquiz: hehe13:13
Sagedm8tbr: also the snowball I have is not supported by their new BSP release so not sure if the latest codes work on my board :/13:13
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SageStskeeps: I think only two patches are needed for libzypp, one that removes timestamp from binary and another that adds the thumbarchs (should be in upstream already though)13:19
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Stskeepsyes, makes sense13:21
Stskeepsjust checking packaging myself13:23
Stskeepswell that's a lot of patches13:24
Stskeepsany of them that's upstreamed?13:24
Sagewe should use upstream and not hacks especially as they don't have comments etc.13:24
Sagehaven't checked yet13:25
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Stskeepsbecause some of them seem genuinely useful13:27
Sagewell 0001-multi-ver-package-should-be-erased-from-notupdated-l.patch isn't even applied in zypper :)13:27
Stskeepsbut yes, the least amount of patches possible the better13:30
* Stskeeps glances at pulseaudio13:30
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Sagewe should update pulseaudio to 1.0 as well probably, but that will cause problems with n9xx adaptation for sure13:32
Stskeepsyeah.. but same goes for mer plus xorg13:32
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Sagelet see what happens after those lib updates are in13:33
Stskeepsi vote chaos13:33
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* phaeron wishes we get automated regression testing 13:36
phaeronthen you can have your chaos ;)13:37
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dm8tbrSage: they might still work13:45
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Stskeepsbergie: matrixx wins for first talk proposal13:59
bergieStskeeps: what is it?14:00
Stskeeps"Towards Accelerated UI's on Mobile Linux With Power of Qt5", so pretty on topic14:00
bergiesounds good14:01
bergiecan you collect them to a GDoc or something?14:01
Stskeepsyeah, sure14:01
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matrixxStskeeps: yey :)14:04
matrixxI hope I also win with first accepted ;)14:04
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Stskeepscrevetor: did you see my llvmpipe screenshot btw?15:06
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crevetorStskeeps: nope. Where is that ?&15:14
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Stskeepscrevetor: se15:17
Stskeeps21-24 fps on vesa xorg driver on a non-hardware virtualization (VT) single-core virtualbox15:17
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crevetorStskeeps: neat15:18
Stskeepsbased off your work15:18
Stskeepsi have new armv7l llvmpipe i'll give you after we've done the toolchain upgrade (it requires that for ARM)15:18
crevetorStskeeps: did you rework the packaging at all on your side ? If not I'll do it15:18
Stskeepsi did, sec15:19
Stskeepsi wanted to maim mesa anyway15:19
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Stskeepsget an account on (not for personal builds, ideally), and go to do
crevetorStskeeps: have you tested on arm yet ?15:22
Stskeepsyou need a upgraded toolchain first and well15:22
Stskeeps is a little too red for me ;)15:23
crevetorStskeeps: what toolchain are we using ?15:23
Stskeepswe're moving to gcc 4.6.3 linaro 2011.1215:23
Stskeepsbinutils 2.2215:23
Stskeepsand qtwebkit 2.2 is able to build after tha15:24
crevetori'm looking at the cmake build, the error doesn't seem trivial to fix...15:24
Stskeepsit's fixed in later qemu :)15:25
crevetoroh ok15:25
Stskeepsso i can see the light at the end of the tunnel15:25
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crevetorI wish I had more time to work on that :(15:26
Stskeepshopefully we'll see working llvmpipe on touchpad15:27
Stskeepsor other devics15:27
crevetorStskeeps: for sure15:27
crevetorStskeeps: also I'm getting a Lumia 800 and am hoping to be able to replace WP7 with... something else15:28
berndhsWP8 ?15:28
Stskeepscrevetor: yeah, i don't have high hopes of that15:29
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crevetorStskeeps: me neither. I'm guessing the bootloader is pretty closed15:29
Stskeepsand there's always baseband issues15:39
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crevetorStskeeps: True15:41
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crevetorStskeeps: Although if it's a nokia baseboand it might be possible to get it working using ofono15:42
Stskeepsqualcomm? probably MSM15:42
crevetorStskeeps: but it's probably a qualcomm one...15:42
Stskeepshow much do you know about android?15:42
crevetorStskeeps: quite a bit15:43
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Stskeepscrevetor: the MSM RIL's, are they OSS?15:43
crevetorI doubt it, let me try and find out15:44
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Stskeepsi saw people did ofono-ril, but i actually want the opposite15:46
Stskeepsril-ofono, ie, able to build RIL plugins against it15:46
crevetorStskeeps: I was/am part of those (2) people ;)15:47
Stskeepsyes i know :P15:47
Stskeepsthat'd be a significant strength for mer, at least15:47
crevetorStskeeps: doing a ril ofono plugin woul probably be doable15:47
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crevetor"adb pull /system/lib/ ../../../vendor/htc/$DEVICE/proprietary/" darn bastards15:52
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Stskeepscrevetor: have you ever seen a chromeos qualcomm image anywhere?16:07
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crevetorwhat's chromeos ?16:08
Stskeepsyou know, that fabled netbook OS where everything is in the browsr16:08
crevetorI read it the wrong way (like chromeos some king of greek god)16:09
crevetorChrome OS it is ;)16:09
crevetorin any case, no I haven't16:09
slaineactually, that mention of netbook reminds me16:11
slaineDid jolicloud ever actually release the source for the UX ?16:11
slaineI seem to recall that it was some sort of Hybrid app16:11
Stskeepsjoli os got16:14
Stskeepsi think16:14
slaineI remember an announcement that they said they'd do it16:14
slainebut iirc, it was a real soon now type of deal, like webOS, lol16:15
slaineWas wondering the other day if something like that would be a good mer Netbook target16:15
Stskeepschromium based16:15
slaineDoesn't seem to be much in the way of code there though,
Stskeepsyeah, it's mostly server baed16:18
slainepossibly pulling the UI down alright16:21
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Stskeepslo Chiku19:27
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Stskeepsso what does IuX mean? ;)19:49
ChikuI don't known Interface user X (server) ?19:49
Chikumy n900 still with meamo19:50
Chikuwant to try nemo but seem only fot testing19:50
Stskeepsnah, we try to do something nice with it19:51
Stskeepsbuy a microsd card and try it out19:51
ChikuI don't have microsd card19:52
Chikumaybe I should buy one19:52
Stskeepsalways useful to have19:53
ChikuIdidn't full my n900 yet19:53
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IanWizard-CloudI've got a question...  Mer is supposed to be just the core.   Like MeeGo core (but better), and then things like Nemo, use Mer, and add the UX to it.  Right?20:21
SageIanWizard-Cloud: yes, Mer is only core without UX and hardware adaptations20:22
Stskeepsright, we concentrate on doing the rough system work, ports to architectures and having things well optimized and shared effort20:22
Stskeepsso we're practically ~317 source packages20:22
IanWizard-CloudBut Nemo is supposed to be MeeGo CE, so how's that work?20:23
StskeepsMeeGo CE wasn't a particularly good name20:23
IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: :P20:23
Stskeepsit was an effort to make more of the handset UI and make it actually usable20:23
w00t(understatement of the century)20:23
IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: but, Mer isn't really MeeGo core.20:23
Stskeepsthe relation comes from that when meego died, CE effort was still very much alive20:24
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Stskeepsso we rebased on Mer, turning into Nemo Mobile20:24
IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: so Nemo is basically replacing MeeGo CE, and calling it the next evolution.20:24
SageStskeeps: I'm surpriced how good most of those libX* seem in build dep tests20:24
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StskeepsIanWizard-Cloud: right, it's a continuation of the code and we managed to sort out a lot of issues when rebasing20:24
Stskeepswe had something quite nice, so20:25
IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: is it a continuation?  If the core is replaced by Mer, and the UX is replaced by, whatever is used for UX.  How much were you really able to save?20:25
StskeepsIanWizard-Cloud: OK, so, graphically: Mer Core derives from MeeGo but removes practically anything hardware adaptation or UI related20:26
IanWizard-CloudThat's what I'm missing.20:26
StskeepsIanWizard-Cloud: Nemo is the UI that previously sat on top of MeeGo Core, plus things that used to be in MeeGo but no longer in Mer20:26
Stskeepssuch as N900/N950 hardware adaptation20:26
w00t(that don't make sense in core)20:26
Stskeepsand libraries20:27
Stskeepsin addition to that, we've updated a lot of the software to match closer to the Harmattan stack (on N9)20:27
IanWizard-CloudYeah.  Mer is really meant to be the middleware / framework from what I understand.20:27
Stskeepsit's meant to be a core, then projects like Nemo take it and put it to use20:27
Stskeepsbecause the MeeGo Core itself, deep down, wasn't that bad20:28
Stskeepsit was just bloated and ruined by UIs being within it, and hardware adaptations adding to the politics20:28
Stskeepsso we took what's really nice in MeeGo Core, turning it into Mer20:29
IanWizard-CloudOk, I understand now I suppose.20:29
StskeepsMer is basically all the system work everyone has to do, but most would rather want to concentrate on what differentiates their project20:30
Stskeepslike UI, hardware adaptation, et20:30
IanWizard-Cloudbut basically all that is does is provide (the base system?), the middleware, and the libs / framework.  right?20:30
Stskeepspretty much, and tools to make a product out of it20:30
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Stskeepsand of course toolchains and such, cross compilation20:31
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IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: yeah, SDK or what-not20:31
Stskeeps:nod: SDK is a bit up in the air :)20:31
Stskeepswe don't guarantee binary compatibility, so20:31
IanWizard-CloudOpp, gotta go suddenly, be back later :)20:32
IanWizard-CloudThanks for the clairification.20:32
IanWizard-CloudStskeeps: bye.20:32
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SageStskeeps: btw, are those xorg stuff such that they all need to be updated to certain version or something?20:33
StskeepsSage: fedora group some of them together at least20:34
Sage;a=blob;f=dri2proto-2.4-2.6.patch;h=4af1463296d75d88047dbc05599dadde217819bb;hb=HEAD <- o_020:36
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Sagewhy not update the sources from 2.4 to 2.6 but add a patch? :D20:36
Stskeepsi think you know why20:36
Sageyes, I know but that is just nuts20:37
Stskeepsfeel free to fix20:37
SageWell, I'm going through all of those next week if I have spare time.20:37
Stskeepsvaluable view20:37
Sagethat is nice yes20:38
Sagebtw, xorg packages are quite up to date mainly just *.*.+1 updates20:40
Stskeepsyeah, but not xorg server itself20:41
Sageyes, well that is another story :)20:42
SageI'll update all the others and well Xorg needs a bit more things to do20:42
Stskeeps also good20:42
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Stskeepson, does "Architectual backlog" and "Available tasks to do" show up in the bottom?21:00
Stskeepsfor you guys21:00
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phaeronI need to login ?21:18
RonksuStskeeps: I don't see them. Don't have an account either though.21:18
Stskeepsyeah, i guess it's for editbugs..21:19
Stskeepshang on21:19
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Stskeepsseems like i can't make it for non-login21:19
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chouchouneStskeeps: with a login, I can see it21:29
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Crnkojhi guys23:18
Crnkoji have a tegra2 phone and would like to port meego/mer to it, is anyone here with experience as to porting meego to tegra2 devices ?23:19
Crnkojguys ?23:20
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phaeronwrong timezone :)23:26
phaeronCrnkoj: start here until someone wakes up23:27
phaerongood night :)23:27
Crnkojaha lol ok thanks23:27
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IanWizard-CloudCrnkoj: I'm looking at the (very basics) of porting to Snapdragon/MSM/APQ23:30
IanWizard-CloudCrnkoj: I know very little, I only recently started really looking at it.  I've only worked on basic porting before.23:31
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cxl000The first step of a port is can you boot your own kernel and mount your our rootfs?23:34
cxl000Secondly do you have access to hardware drivers23:35
Crnkojcxl000 yes it ahs an unlcoked bootloader, so you can flash own kernels and system, but cannot flash otehr bootloader cuz its signed and there is no SBK for it23:35
Crnkojcxl000 it is the motorola atrix which is running both android and a modified ubuntu version.23:36
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Crnkojmost of the drivers are there aswell as sources for the kernel for android 2.3.4/ubuntu23:36
Crnkojcxl000 what kernel version is needed for mer to work? newer than 2.6.32 ? cuz that might become problematic than23:38
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cxl0002.6.38 and up23:42
Crnkojthis could be problematic23:42
cxl000So you may need to forward port some of the drivers23:42
Crnkojdo you know if meego can use anything older ?23:42
Crnkojyes i fear that might be a big problem23:43
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cxl000The kernel needs to be able to support systemd so CGROUPS, AUTOFS4_FS, FANOTIFY, DEVTMPFS, TMPFS_POSIX_ACL and maybe a couple more23:49
Crnkojok thanks cxl000 thats semi advanced for me, will ahve to read even more into linux/kernels23:49
cxl000We have tegra2 graphics drivers in
Crnkojyes i saw that23:52
Crnkojbut huh i need a new kernel first i fear23:52
vgrade1Crnkoj, the nokia N950 is running 2.6.32 with mer, what do you have?23:52
Crnkojalthough it can run ubuntu23:52
Crnkojmotorola atrix23:52
Crnkojcan run ubuntu with that kernel23:52
vgrade1ok good enough with a few pathes23:52
Crnkoji see23:52
vgrade1sec for link23:53
Crnkoji mean i read a bit here
Crnkojbut it was kind of confusing23:53
Crnkojall of it23:53
Crnkoji cant change bootloader23:53
Crnkojbut i can change evreything else23:53
vgrade1ok good23:53
vgrade1thats the 2.6.32 N950 kernel which is working fine with Nemo and Mer23:55
vgrade1you need cgroups patches , probably accept4 patch23:56
vgrade1does ubuntu boot from filesystem on sdcard23:56
Crnkojits onboard from motorola23:56
Crnkojits ont he device itself23:56
Crnkojrunning next to adnroid23:57
vgrade1do you have a link to instructions23:57
Crnkojits like a function of motorola that it has ubuntu23:57

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