Monday, 2011-12-05

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Stskeepszzz06:11
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lbt  morning06:40
Stskeepsit's a weird day when it's cloudy and rainy, and polish radio is playing songs in swedish..06:41
Stskeeps:P06:41
* Stskeeps ponders if to go back to sleep06:41
lbthehe .... it's still black here06:42
w00tit's *always* black here now :-p06:42
w00t(well, not quite, but the window of sunshine is not very big)06:43
* dm8tbr looks out, not black but certainly no sunshine in Tampere06:43
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lbtbut hey .... its monday morning .... mini-yay!06:44
dm8tbrtomorrow is a national holiday, the office will be empty today. YAAAAY!06:44
w00toh dear06:48
* w00t didn't know either of those06:48
w00t(monday, or national holiday)06:48
dm8tbrbeen partying much over the weekend, to loose count of time, eh? ;)06:49
w00ti dunno if i'd call it partying so much as delaying doing anything remotely productive to try recharge a fried brain06:49
w00t:P06:49
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Stskeepsmorn Alison_Chaiken07:05
Alison_ChaikenHuomenta Stskeeps.   How was the Novomok Tizen meeting in China?07:06
Stskeepsit's this week, and i'm not going :)07:06
Stskeepslbt is however07:06
Alison_ChaikenAnd hey Bryanstein.    My abstract got into SCALE this year.    Are you going?07:06
lbtI am indeed07:06
Alison_ChaikenAny particularly notable talks or news?   Will there be video?07:07
Stskeepsi think there's talks and interesting discussions but i doubt much actual tizen news07:07
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lbtAlison_Chaiken: no, Intel haven't exactly fallen over themselves to support it :)07:08
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lbtso it's more a "pre-release" event07:08
Stskeepsfirst expecting to see tizen news with the first release of tizen, next year07:08
Alison_ChaikenHallway track should be interesting!07:08
lbtgathering asian vendors to see what they're expecting, discuss services07:08
lbtyeah - and of course if they need to see a tangible, minimal core....07:08
Alison_ChaikenI'm quite curious to see what the window manager and compositor will be.07:09
lbtAlison_Chaiken: well, as long as it has HTML5 and the apis we understand it will be "tizen"07:09
Stskeepsi think it's best to see tizen as html5+wac compliance, the underlying implementation is probably different from vendor to vendor..07:10
Alison_ChaikenYou guys don't think that Panasonic and Samsung will pick a common choice?    If they're just declaring that they support HTML5, Tizen is pretty dull!07:11
lbt:D07:11
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Stskeepsconsidering that we're hearing conflicting news from raster and the intel guys on what's the underlying software, i suspect we have meego-derived .. and SLP-derived tizen07:11
Alison_ChaikenHey, I'm going to launch a new distro, and we'll focus on little-endian.07:11
lbtAlison_Chaiken: I was thinking of launching one focusses on the colour blue....07:12
Stskeepswell, HTML5+WAC does make some morbid kind of sense, it also means Mer could be along in the tizen game07:12
Alison_ChaikenYes Stskeeps, that's where life gets intriguing.07:12
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Alison_ChaikenColor blue: ha!    Our little-endian will eat your lunch.07:12
lbthehe07:13
Alison_ChaikenBesides, Fedora already owns blue.07:13
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lbtdamned IP lawyers07:13
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StskeepsAlison_Chaiken: so my own personal conclusion is that you can't relate well to tizen until architecture+code is relased except by perhaps looking into HTML5+WAC runtimes on top of your core.. meanwhile, we can do work to make Mer cool and usable in many different kinds of equipment :)07:14
lbtAlison_Chaiken: I also heard from some Samsung people at LC that they're really not interested in the opensource/public dev model07:14
lbtso they're not in the same place Nokia were at07:15
lbtmuch closer to Google's release when done and ignore external input07:16
Alison_ChaikenIf Amazon or B&N were to push their forks to other OEMs, or if CyanogenMod becomes a Samsung product, then other distros are in trouble.07:17
Stskeeps:nod:07:19
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* pabs3 read this the other day http://blogs.igalia.com/juanjo/2011/12/03/open-web-apps-and-device-apis/07:33
* pabs3 wonders if WAC is the best choice07:34
* dm8tbr is still looking forward to write cool XSS to make people's handsets dial his 10€/min premium rate number07:35
lbtAre you sure y/n ?07:36
lbty07:36
lbt"I never agreed to that!"07:36
Alison_ChaikenDon't bother to dial, dm8tbr, just go ahead and extract credit card details from the "wallet" NFC-enabled app and send those, perhaps using the CarrierIQ API.07:37
dm8tbrAlison_Chaiken: 'your payment was authorized by credit card NFC! you were there, you sure must have known that you were buying that tesla roadster!'07:38
vgrademorning07:39
lbtmorning vgrade07:39
vgradehttp://www.chase.org.uk/ Eben talks about Raspberry Pi, tonight, any questions?07:41
Alison_ChaikenA few years ago I bought a diamond ring from a tv shopping network that I generously had delivered to a post office box in an impoverished neighborhood in another city.    I must have been having a bad day, as I spelled my own name wrong.07:41
pabs3vgrade: ask him if they will be shipping open GPU drivers or GPU docs07:42
Stskeepspabs3: that's a no07:42
Stskeepspabs3: already stated several times.. ARM standard, open kernel, closed userland07:43
pabs3I know07:43
Stskeepsvgrade: try to get some kind of statement on how the GLES libraries will be distributed to the general populace as that's still very unclear to me07:43
Stskeepsnot open source vs not, just how they're shipping them to people07:44
Stskeepsand perhaps redistributability07:44
vgradeand see if they are going to deliver a standard gles without init code?07:45
pabs3ask openness too, everyone needs to know about that too, not just those who already know07:45
Stskeepsvgrade: that's less of an issue07:45
Stskeepsvgrade: i'm planning a open wrapper thing so people can build against it in OBS for instance07:45
lbtit may be worth asking about long-term support for the drivers ....07:46
vgradevgrade grabs a pen07:46
lbtif these are supposed to be used in classrooms for the next 5 years...07:46
lbtwhat happens with newer kernels etc07:46
lbtor are they expecting newer devices? same price point?07:46
* dm8tbr wonders if they have secured parts availability07:48
dm8tbrnothing sucks more when one of your central parts suddenly is discontinued07:48
vgradeanyone else planning to attend?07:51
vgradeI'm going to give Eben a couple of SDCARDS one with Mer core and the other with my QtCreator build07:53
Stskeeps:nod:07:54
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iekkumorning07:55
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pabs3vgrade: ask about mainlining Linux drivers too; are they going to do it or will they leave that to others?07:59
Stskeepsjudging by the interest there should be a lot of capable people08:00
vgradeapart from the gfx driver I think the only other driver is usb08:02
vgradewhich is not mainline08:03
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dm8tbrnot musb_hdrc this time?08:08
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vgradedm8tbr, Synopsys USB core08:21
dm8tbrk, never heard of08:23
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Stskeepsmorn mdfe_08:26
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mdfe_moin Stskeeps :)08:30
Stskeepshow's things coming along?08:30
mdfe_just back from vacation08:30
Stskeepsah, had a good one? :)08:30
mdfe_yepp :)08:30
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Sagemdfe_: welcome back08:51
Sagemdfe_: If you have time the telepathy stuff would need testing, if that works ok and has all needed things.08:52
SageWould be nice to get the peregrine in to next release on Thursday.08:52
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mja-h09:19
mja-sry09:20
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Stskeepsnp09:21
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Stskeepsmorn phaeron, welcome back to .fi09:34
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phaeronStskeeps: thanks09:34
phaeronStskeeps: was overnight in .pl :)09:36
Stskeeps:)09:36
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BostikStskeeps: okay, qt5 specs should now build a something one might take out for a spin (qtscript is in State[tm] and doesn't build ATM but nothing build-depends on it so you can ignore the failure for now)09:56
Stskeepsok09:56
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Stskeepsi'll update in the afternoon, doing other stuff atm10:00
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Stskeepsosc mkpac is my new favourite tool10:04
phaeronwhy ? did you add something to it ?10:07
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Stskeepswell, now i can have home:foo/ directory, do osc mkpac, cd into it, add my sources, osc commit -m foo10:09
Stskeepsand no filthy meta pkg -e :)10:09
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matrixxvgrade: thanks10:43
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lbtBostik: ooh ... qt5 eh?10:51
Bostiklbt: yeah, been keeping tabs on it and updating specs/patches as upstream lives10:52
lbtso which webkit is in there? is it 2.2?10:52
Bostiknone at the moment10:52
Bostik2.2 only works (and even builds) against 4.810:53
Bostikqt5 support will come later via webkit trunk10:53
lbtOK - doesn't help me later in the week then10:53
BostikI do have qtwebkit 2.2 spec (and build instructions) for 4.x series10:54
Bostikjust a moment10:54
lbtI had been hoping to show Mer with something *anything* doing Qt/HTML510:54
lbtbut there has been a gcc issue apparently10:55
Bostikwhere do you want the files? :)10:55
Bostikbecause this thing DOES build for 4.8 and it works too10:55
lbton c.obs?10:56
Bostikalas, no10:56
Bostikno account there, not even now10:56
lbtso that's an easy fix10:56
lbtso Bostik do you *want* to use c.obs?10:57
Bostikhmmmm...10:59
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pabs3so how have Mer folks been getting devices for developing/testing/running it on?11:40
Stskeepsbuying, donations, etc11:40
mdfe_Stskeeps: I'm back on track related to PA . By now we are stable enough to update Project:KDE:Trunk:Testing from Project:KDE:Devel. We are able to build x86 mer images but the hole qml stuff do not work for qt higher than 4.7.411:52
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Stskeepsmdfe_: ok, what's blocking you on 4.8?11:52
mdfe_Stskeeps: Sadly the KDE PA developer do not have the time to fix the qml stuff for qt 4.8 before PA211:53
mdfe_:(11:53
Stskeepsok, i guess you can build qt mobility plus qt4.7.4 yourself11:54
Stskeepswhat kind of issues is it anyway?11:55
mdfe_hmm, how? because in mer base is allready much qt stuff in higher version inside11:55
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Stskeepsin your ks's you can --exclude-pkgs= from the mer core11:55
mdfe_Stskeeps: I don't know the qml issues exactly but I was told it needs some internal overhaulings11:56
mdfe_And I have to rebuild all needed qt stuff inside my project?11:58
mdfe_souns manageable11:58
mdfe_sounds11:58
mdfe_Stskeeps: Greate thanks for this hint11:59
Stskeepsqt mobility,qtwebkit needs rebuilding, but yeah12:00
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mdfe_Stskeeps: Do I have to add some stuff to the project config too?12:00
Stskeepsno12:00
Stskeepsjust don't submit bugs to us on qt and above layer ;)12:00
mdfe_are project internal packages preferred by default?12:01
Stskeepsthink so12:01
mdfe_*g*12:01
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StskeepsPA2 is when, btw?12:03
mdfe_13. of dec12:03
mdfe_....12:03
mdfe_thats the plan12:03
Stskeepsok12:05
Stskeepsand when next release?12:05
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mdfe_IMHO three months later12:06
Stskeepsok12:06
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* Stskeeps glances at his media center and ponders if he should dump xbmc+mer on it13:20
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* dm8tbr should try xbmc some time, it seems to be quite nice13:37
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SageStskeeps, dm8tbr: home:sage:xbmc ;)14:13
dm8tbr:)14:14
StskeepsSage: could you build it for i486 too?14:14
Sagesure14:14
dm8tbr:)14:15
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* dm8tbr could try xbmc on his exopc14:15
slaineSage, is that xbmc head (Eden) or the previous stable release ?14:16
Sageprevious stable release14:17
Sage10.114:17
SageHaven't had time to look at the newer version yet14:17
Sagealso haven't have time to finish the packaging for all of those components there14:17
SageStskeeps: should be compiling takes time to initialize though. Also compiling straight against core without the MW stuff so might fail but lets see.14:19
Stskeeps:nod:14:22
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Stskeepscrevetor: i got llvmpipe working, sortof, but i would revamp your packaging if i were you :P14:31
Stskeeps(on virtualbox)14:31
crevetorTo remove the debuginfo bins ?14:32
w00tStskeeps: i meant to ask, what did you mean by sort of? :D14:32
Stskeepscrevetor: as a start, but /usr/lib/egl/ also has no user readable permissions.. etc14:33
Stskeepsw00t: as in i couldn't verify if it used softpipe or llvmpipe14:33
w00thaha14:33
w00ti see14:33
crevetorStskeeps: oh yeah that too14:34
crevetorStskeeps: did the bins work out of the box or did you make some changes ?14:35
Stskeepsworked ok, i had to export environment variables though14:36
crevetorStskeeps: ok14:36
crevetorStskeeps: doing that on arm doesn'T work though : It does use llvmpipe but then it complains about some arm specific stuff14:36
Stskeeps:nod:14:37
Stskeepsjust wanted to get a basic setup going14:37
Stskeepsthen we can test on arm14:37
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crevetorsure14:38
kakashi_can I call using mer?14:41
kakashi_as of now?14:41
crevetorusing nemo maybeà14:41
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sethstormcxl000: did you get those links, since I did manage to get something about that kernel panic as you asked a while back16:04
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alteregoSage: ping16:12
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lbtStskeeps: ping ... do you know any non-gitorious git clones of qtwebkit ?16:27
Stskeepsno16:27
lbthttp://pastie.org/297013916:27
Stskeepswell16:27
Stskeepsgerrit16:27
lbtyeah - that's not real is it?16:27
Stskeepswell, gerrit mirrors to gitorious16:27
lbtthought it was a git of the tgz16:29
Stskeepsnot afaik16:29
lbtstupid gitorious16:29
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lbthttp://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/qtwebkit.git;a=tree ?16:31
Stskeepsright, that's our qtwebkit with 2.1.016:31
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lbtok - so am I missing something ...16:32
lbtor did you mean some other gerrit repo?16:32
Stskeepsok, so what are you trying to do exactly/16:32
Stskeeps?16:32
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lbthttp://pastie.org/297013916:33
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Stskeepsno, in general terms16:33
lbtBostik has some packaging and tools for qt5 with webkit 2.216:33
lbtstep 1 - clone qtwebkit16:34
lbtEFAIL16:34
Stskeepsok, so, qt's gerrit instance has a qtwebkit too naturallly16:35
lbtat this point I learn that Qt has a gerrit instance16:35
lbtand that makes sense16:35
Stskeepsso i would assume that isn't full of fail16:36
w00thaha16:38
Bostiklbt: no, I do *not* have qt5+webkit2.216:39
BostikI have qt5, and I have qtwebkit 2.2; completely orthogonal16:40
lbtwell, at this point I have ""16:40
Bostikcoworker has been looking into webkit trunk and managed to get something resembling webkit with qt5 working less than 5h ago...16:41
Stskeepslbt: home:stskeeps:qt5 on cobs has a non-working snapshot of qt516:41
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lbtBostik: *nod* ...16:42
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lbtStskeeps: yeah ... but that gets me little more than "cp" ... I'd rather work it from the git tree16:43
lbtassuming of course that our glorious gitourious is capable of pushing any code16:43
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Stskeepsllvm's really a drag to watch build18:52
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Sagealterego: pong19:34
Sagealterego: you should probably ask the question and not wait answer right away. I'll respond when I come back to comp :)19:35
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alteregoSage: it's okay now, I've sorted it out, just wanted to make a minimal image for the N950 :)19:41
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SageStskeeps: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9 seems to be problem with armv6l20:23
SageStskeeps: on qt-mobility as well. So not glib2 related IMO20:23
Stskeeps:nod:20:24
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cxl000sethstorm got your links. Its a busy time atm but I am preparing a new image shortly.20:53
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pdanekTizen summit soon! :)21:54
pdanekhttp://tizensummitasia2011.com/21:54
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berndhsfirst industry top-secret summit ?22:15
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lbtberndhs: it's a pre-launch summit22:21
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dm8tbrso it will be all 'nothing to announce' and some back-room-talking between select NDA parties...22:29
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berndhsmaybe they will ahve live video coverage of a bunch of people not talking22:31
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vgradeQ, "what about licenses with Raspberry Pi", A, "we are planning once everthing is stable to opensource everthing, hardware designs and software"22:41
chouchounelooks weird this summit22:41
vgradehad to leave early as I was with my son but I will ask Eben via email if this is really what he meant22:41
vgradechouchoune, hi22:41
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wmaronevgrade: they really should qualify that22:41
chouchouneat the beginning there was some Linux Foundation/Intel guys and noone from LiMo/Samsung22:42
chouchouneand now we have the executive director of LiMo and no-one from FL/Intel ;)22:42
chouchounehi vgrade22:42
vgradewmarone, yea, I had to rush off but gave Eben an sdcard with Mer on it and I have his email so will ask for clarification22:43
chouchouneand Qt silver sponsor of the Tizen summit ;)22:43
wmaronevgrade: cool, will be interesting to see what he has22:43
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lbtdm8tbr, berndhs it was *supposed* to be an open community welcome of Tizen in Asia. I volunteered to attend back when it was the "MeeGo Asia Summit" ....22:44
wmaroneheh, community22:44
wmaroneit'll be interesting to see what impact LiMo has on that, since they neither have a community nor work with the larger one they pull from22:44
lbtThink of it as MeeGo.fi   renaming itself Tizen.fi and trusting Intel when they say "sure we'll have announced by then ... you feel free to spend $000s on the event"22:45
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chouchounewmarone: during our last french MeeGo meetup we had an interesting presentation from a guy who worked for Samsung on SLP22:46
wmaroneraster?22:46
lbtthat's how I understand it went .... but I am merely an invited guest....22:46
chouchouneno ;)22:46
chouchounea french guy22:47
wmaroneahh22:47
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chouchounehe was contractor for Samsung I think during some months, as an EFL developer22:47
lbtchouchoune: I think I met him in Prague at LinuxConf22:47
chouchouneah probably22:47
chouchounehe was there22:47
lbttalking about how passionate Samsung are about OSS? :D22:48
chouchounehehe, yes22:48
chouchounehopefully they will opensource "something" with Tizen ;)22:48
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lbtchouchoune: the content for the wiki? (but not the CSS - that's look and feel)22:49
chouchouneanyway he was saying that Samsung was almost ready to launch a device with SLP22:49
chouchounehaha22:49
chouchouneyes22:49
chouchouneif there is a wiki ... ;)22:49
lbtI get the feeling that Intel want to keep the whole thing open - it makes sense for them22:50
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chouchouneyesz22:50
lbtbut Samsung aren't too bothered about supporting any competition22:50
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chouchouneIntel wants the open, Samsung wants the platform22:50
lbtI heard stories about how Samsung still have not learnt the cost of carrying patches for a platform22:51
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lbtwhich Nokia *did* feel in Maemo22:51
wmarone_grr, think I need to harrass comcast for a new cablemodem22:52
chouchounewmarone_: or take a dedicated server with screen ;)22:52
wmarone_that costs extra money22:52
lbtwmarone_: €7/month22:52
wmarone_that's greater than zero :P22:52
chouchounehaha22:53
lbtbarely22:53
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* lbt -> bed22:53
lbtnight all22:53
berndhsnight22:53
chouchounenight22:53
chouchouneanyway, concerning Tizen summit, maybe Paimen will be able to update us on what's going on there ;)22:54
chouchoune(when he reads this hl)22:54
berndhswell, DawnFoster is heading over there22:56
berndhsmaybe she will get people to consume fruity drinks and they will talk22:56
chouchounehehe22:56
chouchounebut i didn't see anyone from Intel in the program22:56
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sledges_hello23:32
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sledges_this links from FAQ seems broken :( http://merproject.org/~prjfetcher/mer/README.txt23:38
sledges_as well as the other serbive is temporary unavailable: http://monster.tspre.org/~prjfetcher/mer/releases/0.20110920.1/kickstarts/mer-core-armv6l.ks23:38
sledges_and I couldn't find README.txt in main of the projects on gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb . how does ~prjfetcher work anyways? :)23:39
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