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| Stskeeps | zzz | 06:11 |
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| lbt | morning | 06:40 |
| Stskeeps | it's a weird day when it's cloudy and rainy, and polish radio is playing songs in swedish.. | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 06:41 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if to go back to sleep | 06:41 | |
| lbt | hehe .... it's still black here | 06:42 |
| w00t | it's *always* black here now :-p | 06:42 |
| w00t | (well, not quite, but the window of sunshine is not very big) | 06:43 |
| * dm8tbr looks out, not black but certainly no sunshine in Tampere | 06:43 | |
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| lbt | but hey .... its monday morning .... mini-yay! | 06:44 |
| dm8tbr | tomorrow is a national holiday, the office will be empty today. YAAAAY! | 06:44 |
| w00t | oh dear | 06:48 |
| * w00t didn't know either of those | 06:48 | |
| w00t | (monday, or national holiday) | 06:48 |
| dm8tbr | been partying much over the weekend, to loose count of time, eh? ;) | 06:49 |
| w00t | i dunno if i'd call it partying so much as delaying doing anything remotely productive to try recharge a fried brain | 06:49 |
| w00t | :P | 06:49 |
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| Stskeeps | morn Alison_Chaiken | 07:05 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Huomenta Stskeeps. How was the Novomok Tizen meeting in China? | 07:06 |
| Stskeeps | it's this week, and i'm not going :) | 07:06 |
| Stskeeps | lbt is however | 07:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | And hey Bryanstein. My abstract got into SCALE this year. Are you going? | 07:06 |
| lbt | I am indeed | 07:06 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Any particularly notable talks or news? Will there be video? | 07:07 |
| Stskeeps | i think there's talks and interesting discussions but i doubt much actual tizen news | 07:07 |
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| lbt | Alison_Chaiken: no, Intel haven't exactly fallen over themselves to support it :) | 07:08 |
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| lbt | so it's more a "pre-release" event | 07:08 |
| Stskeeps | first expecting to see tizen news with the first release of tizen, next year | 07:08 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Hallway track should be interesting! | 07:08 |
| lbt | gathering asian vendors to see what they're expecting, discuss services | 07:08 |
| lbt | yeah - and of course if they need to see a tangible, minimal core.... | 07:08 |
| Alison_Chaiken | I'm quite curious to see what the window manager and compositor will be. | 07:09 |
| lbt | Alison_Chaiken: well, as long as it has HTML5 and the apis we understand it will be "tizen" | 07:09 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's best to see tizen as html5+wac compliance, the underlying implementation is probably different from vendor to vendor.. | 07:10 |
| Alison_Chaiken | You guys don't think that Panasonic and Samsung will pick a common choice? If they're just declaring that they support HTML5, Tizen is pretty dull! | 07:11 |
| lbt | :D | 07:11 |
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| Stskeeps | considering that we're hearing conflicting news from raster and the intel guys on what's the underlying software, i suspect we have meego-derived .. and SLP-derived tizen | 07:11 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Hey, I'm going to launch a new distro, and we'll focus on little-endian. | 07:11 |
| lbt | Alison_Chaiken: I was thinking of launching one focusses on the colour blue.... | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | well, HTML5+WAC does make some morbid kind of sense, it also means Mer could be along in the tizen game | 07:12 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Yes Stskeeps, that's where life gets intriguing. | 07:12 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Color blue: ha! Our little-endian will eat your lunch. | 07:12 |
| lbt | hehe | 07:13 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Besides, Fedora already owns blue. | 07:13 |
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| lbt | damned IP lawyers | 07:13 |
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| Stskeeps | Alison_Chaiken: so my own personal conclusion is that you can't relate well to tizen until architecture+code is relased except by perhaps looking into HTML5+WAC runtimes on top of your core.. meanwhile, we can do work to make Mer cool and usable in many different kinds of equipment :) | 07:14 |
| lbt | Alison_Chaiken: I also heard from some Samsung people at LC that they're really not interested in the opensource/public dev model | 07:14 |
| lbt | so they're not in the same place Nokia were at | 07:15 |
| lbt | much closer to Google's release when done and ignore external input | 07:16 |
| Alison_Chaiken | If Amazon or B&N were to push their forks to other OEMs, or if CyanogenMod becomes a Samsung product, then other distros are in trouble. | 07:17 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:19 |
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| * pabs3 read this the other day http://blogs.igalia.com/juanjo/2011/12/03/open-web-apps-and-device-apis/ | 07:33 | |
| * pabs3 wonders if WAC is the best choice | 07:34 | |
| * dm8tbr is still looking forward to write cool XSS to make people's handsets dial his 10€/min premium rate number | 07:35 | |
| lbt | Are you sure y/n ? | 07:36 |
| lbt | y | 07:36 |
| lbt | "I never agreed to that!" | 07:36 |
| Alison_Chaiken | Don't bother to dial, dm8tbr, just go ahead and extract credit card details from the "wallet" NFC-enabled app and send those, perhaps using the CarrierIQ API. | 07:37 |
| dm8tbr | Alison_Chaiken: 'your payment was authorized by credit card NFC! you were there, you sure must have known that you were buying that tesla roadster!' | 07:38 |
| vgrade | morning | 07:39 |
| lbt | morning vgrade | 07:39 |
| vgrade | http://www.chase.org.uk/ Eben talks about Raspberry Pi, tonight, any questions? | 07:41 |
| Alison_Chaiken | A few years ago I bought a diamond ring from a tv shopping network that I generously had delivered to a post office box in an impoverished neighborhood in another city. I must have been having a bad day, as I spelled my own name wrong. | 07:41 |
| pabs3 | vgrade: ask him if they will be shipping open GPU drivers or GPU docs | 07:42 |
| Stskeeps | pabs3: that's a no | 07:42 |
| Stskeeps | pabs3: already stated several times.. ARM standard, open kernel, closed userland | 07:43 |
| pabs3 | I know | 07:43 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: try to get some kind of statement on how the GLES libraries will be distributed to the general populace as that's still very unclear to me | 07:43 |
| Stskeeps | not open source vs not, just how they're shipping them to people | 07:44 |
| Stskeeps | and perhaps redistributability | 07:44 |
| vgrade | and see if they are going to deliver a standard gles without init code? | 07:45 |
| pabs3 | ask openness too, everyone needs to know about that too, not just those who already know | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: that's less of an issue | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | vgrade: i'm planning a open wrapper thing so people can build against it in OBS for instance | 07:45 |
| lbt | it may be worth asking about long-term support for the drivers .... | 07:46 |
| vgrade | vgrade grabs a pen | 07:46 |
| lbt | if these are supposed to be used in classrooms for the next 5 years... | 07:46 |
| lbt | what happens with newer kernels etc | 07:46 |
| lbt | or are they expecting newer devices? same price point? | 07:46 |
| * dm8tbr wonders if they have secured parts availability | 07:48 | |
| dm8tbr | nothing sucks more when one of your central parts suddenly is discontinued | 07:48 |
| vgrade | anyone else planning to attend? | 07:51 |
| vgrade | I'm going to give Eben a couple of SDCARDS one with Mer core and the other with my QtCreator build | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:54 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:55 |
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| pabs3 | vgrade: ask about mainlining Linux drivers too; are they going to do it or will they leave that to others? | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | judging by the interest there should be a lot of capable people | 08:00 |
| vgrade | apart from the gfx driver I think the only other driver is usb | 08:02 |
| vgrade | which is not mainline | 08:03 |
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| dm8tbr | not musb_hdrc this time? | 08:08 |
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| vgrade | dm8tbr, Synopsys USB core | 08:21 |
| dm8tbr | k, never heard of | 08:23 |
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| Stskeeps | morn mdfe_ | 08:26 |
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| mdfe_ | moin Stskeeps :) | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | how's things coming along? | 08:30 |
| mdfe_ | just back from vacation | 08:30 |
| Stskeeps | ah, had a good one? :) | 08:30 |
| mdfe_ | yepp :) | 08:30 |
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| Sage | mdfe_: welcome back | 08:51 |
| Sage | mdfe_: If you have time the telepathy stuff would need testing, if that works ok and has all needed things. | 08:52 |
| Sage | Would be nice to get the peregrine in to next release on Thursday. | 08:52 |
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| mja- | h | 09:19 |
| mja- | sry | 09:20 |
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| Stskeeps | np | 09:21 |
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| Stskeeps | morn phaeron, welcome back to .fi | 09:34 |
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| phaeron | Stskeeps: thanks | 09:34 |
| phaeron | Stskeeps: was overnight in .pl :) | 09:36 |
| Stskeeps | :) | 09:36 |
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| Bostik | Stskeeps: okay, qt5 specs should now build a something one might take out for a spin (qtscript is in State[tm] and doesn't build ATM but nothing build-depends on it so you can ignore the failure for now) | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | i'll update in the afternoon, doing other stuff atm | 10:00 |
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| Stskeeps | osc mkpac is my new favourite tool | 10:04 |
| phaeron | why ? did you add something to it ? | 10:07 |
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| Stskeeps | well, now i can have home:foo/ directory, do osc mkpac, cd into it, add my sources, osc commit -m foo | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | and no filthy meta pkg -e :) | 10:09 |
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| matrixx | vgrade: thanks | 10:43 |
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| lbt | Bostik: ooh ... qt5 eh? | 10:51 |
| Bostik | lbt: yeah, been keeping tabs on it and updating specs/patches as upstream lives | 10:52 |
| lbt | so which webkit is in there? is it 2.2? | 10:52 |
| Bostik | none at the moment | 10:52 |
| Bostik | 2.2 only works (and even builds) against 4.8 | 10:53 |
| Bostik | qt5 support will come later via webkit trunk | 10:53 |
| lbt | OK - doesn't help me later in the week then | 10:53 |
| Bostik | I do have qtwebkit 2.2 spec (and build instructions) for 4.x series | 10:54 |
| Bostik | just a moment | 10:54 |
| lbt | I had been hoping to show Mer with something *anything* doing Qt/HTML5 | 10:54 |
| lbt | but there has been a gcc issue apparently | 10:55 |
| Bostik | where do you want the files? :) | 10:55 |
| Bostik | because this thing DOES build for 4.8 and it works too | 10:55 |
| lbt | on c.obs? | 10:56 |
| Bostik | alas, no | 10:56 |
| Bostik | no account there, not even now | 10:56 |
| lbt | so that's an easy fix | 10:56 |
| lbt | so Bostik do you *want* to use c.obs? | 10:57 |
| Bostik | hmmmm... | 10:59 |
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| pabs3 | so how have Mer folks been getting devices for developing/testing/running it on? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | buying, donations, etc | 11:40 |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: I'm back on track related to PA . By now we are stable enough to update Project:KDE:Trunk:Testing from Project:KDE:Devel. We are able to build x86 mer images but the hole qml stuff do not work for qt higher than 4.7.4 | 11:52 |
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| Stskeeps | mdfe_: ok, what's blocking you on 4.8? | 11:52 |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: Sadly the KDE PA developer do not have the time to fix the qml stuff for qt 4.8 before PA2 | 11:53 |
| mdfe_ | :( | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | ok, i guess you can build qt mobility plus qt4.7.4 yourself | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | what kind of issues is it anyway? | 11:55 |
| mdfe_ | hmm, how? because in mer base is allready much qt stuff in higher version inside | 11:55 |
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| Stskeeps | in your ks's you can --exclude-pkgs= from the mer core | 11:55 |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: I don't know the qml issues exactly but I was told it needs some internal overhaulings | 11:56 |
| mdfe_ | And I have to rebuild all needed qt stuff inside my project? | 11:58 |
| mdfe_ | souns manageable | 11:58 |
| mdfe_ | sounds | 11:58 |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: Greate thanks for this hint | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | qt mobility,qtwebkit needs rebuilding, but yeah | 12:00 |
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| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: Do I have to add some stuff to the project config too? | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | no | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | just don't submit bugs to us on qt and above layer ;) | 12:00 |
| mdfe_ | are project internal packages preferred by default? | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | think so | 12:01 |
| mdfe_ | *g* | 12:01 |
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| Stskeeps | PA2 is when, btw? | 12:03 |
| mdfe_ | 13. of dec | 12:03 |
| mdfe_ | .... | 12:03 |
| mdfe_ | thats the plan | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | and when next release? | 12:05 |
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| mdfe_ | IMHO three months later | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:06 |
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| * Stskeeps glances at his media center and ponders if he should dump xbmc+mer on it | 13:20 | |
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| * dm8tbr should try xbmc some time, it seems to be quite nice | 13:37 | |
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| Sage | Stskeeps, dm8tbr: home:sage:xbmc ;) | 14:13 |
| dm8tbr | :) | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: could you build it for i486 too? | 14:14 |
| Sage | sure | 14:14 |
| dm8tbr | :) | 14:15 |
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| * dm8tbr could try xbmc on his exopc | 14:15 | |
| slaine | Sage, is that xbmc head (Eden) or the previous stable release ? | 14:16 |
| Sage | previous stable release | 14:17 |
| Sage | 10.1 | 14:17 |
| Sage | Haven't had time to look at the newer version yet | 14:17 |
| Sage | also haven't have time to finish the packaging for all of those components there | 14:17 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: should be compiling takes time to initialize though. Also compiling straight against core without the MW stuff so might fail but lets see. | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | crevetor: i got llvmpipe working, sortof, but i would revamp your packaging if i were you :P | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | (on virtualbox) | 14:31 |
| crevetor | To remove the debuginfo bins ? | 14:32 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: i meant to ask, what did you mean by sort of? :D | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | crevetor: as a start, but /usr/lib/egl/ also has no user readable permissions.. etc | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: as in i couldn't verify if it used softpipe or llvmpipe | 14:33 |
| w00t | haha | 14:33 |
| w00t | i see | 14:33 |
| crevetor | Stskeeps: oh yeah that too | 14:34 |
| crevetor | Stskeeps: did the bins work out of the box or did you make some changes ? | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | worked ok, i had to export environment variables though | 14:36 |
| crevetor | Stskeeps: ok | 14:36 |
| crevetor | Stskeeps: doing that on arm doesn'T work though : It does use llvmpipe but then it complains about some arm specific stuff | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | just wanted to get a basic setup going | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | then we can test on arm | 14:37 |
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| crevetor | sure | 14:38 |
| kakashi_ | can I call using mer? | 14:41 |
| kakashi_ | as of now? | 14:41 |
| crevetor | using nemo maybeà | 14:41 |
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| sethstorm | cxl000: did you get those links, since I did manage to get something about that kernel panic as you asked a while back | 16:04 |
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| alterego | Sage: ping | 16:12 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: ping ... do you know any non-gitorious git clones of qtwebkit ? | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | no | 16:27 |
| lbt | http://pastie.org/2970139 | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | well | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | gerrit | 16:27 |
| lbt | yeah - that's not real is it? | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | well, gerrit mirrors to gitorious | 16:27 |
| lbt | thought it was a git of the tgz | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | not afaik | 16:29 |
| lbt | stupid gitorious | 16:29 |
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| lbt | http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb?p=mer-core/qtwebkit.git;a=tree ? | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | right, that's our qtwebkit with 2.1.0 | 16:31 |
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| lbt | ok - so am I missing something ... | 16:32 |
| lbt | or did you mean some other gerrit repo? | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so what are you trying to do exactly/ | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 16:32 |
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| lbt | http://pastie.org/2970139 | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | no, in general terms | 16:33 |
| lbt | Bostik has some packaging and tools for qt5 with webkit 2.2 | 16:33 |
| lbt | step 1 - clone qtwebkit | 16:34 |
| lbt | EFAIL | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so, qt's gerrit instance has a qtwebkit too naturallly | 16:35 |
| lbt | at this point I learn that Qt has a gerrit instance | 16:35 |
| lbt | and that makes sense | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | so i would assume that isn't full of fail | 16:36 |
| w00t | haha | 16:38 |
| Bostik | lbt: no, I do *not* have qt5+webkit2.2 | 16:39 |
| Bostik | I have qt5, and I have qtwebkit 2.2; completely orthogonal | 16:40 |
| lbt | well, at this point I have "" | 16:40 |
| Bostik | coworker has been looking into webkit trunk and managed to get something resembling webkit with qt5 working less than 5h ago... | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: home:stskeeps:qt5 on cobs has a non-working snapshot of qt5 | 16:41 |
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| lbt | Bostik: *nod* ... | 16:42 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: yeah ... but that gets me little more than "cp" ... I'd rather work it from the git tree | 16:43 |
| lbt | assuming of course that our glorious gitourious is capable of pushing any code | 16:43 |
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| Stskeeps | llvm's really a drag to watch build | 18:52 |
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| Sage | alterego: pong | 19:34 |
| Sage | alterego: you should probably ask the question and not wait answer right away. I'll respond when I come back to comp :) | 19:35 |
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| alterego | Sage: it's okay now, I've sorted it out, just wanted to make a minimal image for the N950 :) | 19:41 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9 seems to be problem with armv6l | 20:23 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: on qt-mobility as well. So not glib2 related IMO | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 20:24 |
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| cxl000 | sethstorm got your links. Its a busy time atm but I am preparing a new image shortly. | 20:53 |
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| pdanek | Tizen summit soon! :) | 21:54 |
| pdanek | http://tizensummitasia2011.com/ | 21:54 |
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| berndhs | first industry top-secret summit ? | 22:15 |
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| lbt | berndhs: it's a pre-launch summit | 22:21 |
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| dm8tbr | so it will be all 'nothing to announce' and some back-room-talking between select NDA parties... | 22:29 |
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| berndhs | maybe they will ahve live video coverage of a bunch of people not talking | 22:31 |
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| vgrade | Q, "what about licenses with Raspberry Pi", A, "we are planning once everthing is stable to opensource everthing, hardware designs and software" | 22:41 |
| chouchoune | looks weird this summit | 22:41 |
| vgrade | had to leave early as I was with my son but I will ask Eben via email if this is really what he meant | 22:41 |
| vgrade | chouchoune, hi | 22:41 |
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| wmarone | vgrade: they really should qualify that | 22:41 |
| chouchoune | at the beginning there was some Linux Foundation/Intel guys and noone from LiMo/Samsung | 22:42 |
| chouchoune | and now we have the executive director of LiMo and no-one from FL/Intel ;) | 22:42 |
| chouchoune | hi vgrade | 22:42 |
| vgrade | wmarone, yea, I had to rush off but gave Eben an sdcard with Mer on it and I have his email so will ask for clarification | 22:43 |
| chouchoune | and Qt silver sponsor of the Tizen summit ;) | 22:43 |
| wmarone | vgrade: cool, will be interesting to see what he has | 22:43 |
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| lbt | dm8tbr, berndhs it was *supposed* to be an open community welcome of Tizen in Asia. I volunteered to attend back when it was the "MeeGo Asia Summit" .... | 22:44 |
| wmarone | heh, community | 22:44 |
| wmarone | it'll be interesting to see what impact LiMo has on that, since they neither have a community nor work with the larger one they pull from | 22:44 |
| lbt | Think of it as MeeGo.fi renaming itself Tizen.fi and trusting Intel when they say "sure we'll have announced by then ... you feel free to spend $000s on the event" | 22:45 |
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| chouchoune | wmarone: during our last french MeeGo meetup we had an interesting presentation from a guy who worked for Samsung on SLP | 22:46 |
| wmarone | raster? | 22:46 |
| lbt | that's how I understand it went .... but I am merely an invited guest.... | 22:46 |
| chouchoune | no ;) | 22:46 |
| chouchoune | a french guy | 22:47 |
| wmarone | ahh | 22:47 |
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| chouchoune | he was contractor for Samsung I think during some months, as an EFL developer | 22:47 |
| lbt | chouchoune: I think I met him in Prague at LinuxConf | 22:47 |
| chouchoune | ah probably | 22:47 |
| chouchoune | he was there | 22:47 |
| lbt | talking about how passionate Samsung are about OSS? :D | 22:48 |
| chouchoune | hehe, yes | 22:48 |
| chouchoune | hopefully they will opensource "something" with Tizen ;) | 22:48 |
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| lbt | chouchoune: the content for the wiki? (but not the CSS - that's look and feel) | 22:49 |
| chouchoune | anyway he was saying that Samsung was almost ready to launch a device with SLP | 22:49 |
| chouchoune | haha | 22:49 |
| chouchoune | yes | 22:49 |
| chouchoune | if there is a wiki ... ;) | 22:49 |
| lbt | I get the feeling that Intel want to keep the whole thing open - it makes sense for them | 22:50 |
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| chouchoune | yesz | 22:50 |
| lbt | but Samsung aren't too bothered about supporting any competition | 22:50 |
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| chouchoune | Intel wants the open, Samsung wants the platform | 22:50 |
| lbt | I heard stories about how Samsung still have not learnt the cost of carrying patches for a platform | 22:51 |
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| lbt | which Nokia *did* feel in Maemo | 22:51 |
| wmarone_ | grr, think I need to harrass comcast for a new cablemodem | 22:52 |
| chouchoune | wmarone_: or take a dedicated server with screen ;) | 22:52 |
| wmarone_ | that costs extra money | 22:52 |
| lbt | wmarone_: €7/month | 22:52 |
| wmarone_ | that's greater than zero :P | 22:52 |
| chouchoune | haha | 22:53 |
| lbt | barely | 22:53 |
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| * lbt -> bed | 22:53 | |
| lbt | night all | 22:53 |
| berndhs | night | 22:53 |
| chouchoune | night | 22:53 |
| chouchoune | anyway, concerning Tizen summit, maybe Paimen will be able to update us on what's going on there ;) | 22:54 |
| chouchoune | (when he reads this hl) | 22:54 |
| berndhs | well, DawnFoster is heading over there | 22:56 |
| berndhs | maybe she will get people to consume fruity drinks and they will talk | 22:56 |
| chouchoune | hehe | 22:56 |
| chouchoune | but i didn't see anyone from Intel in the program | 22:56 |
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| sledges_ | hello | 23:32 |
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| sledges_ | this links from FAQ seems broken :( http://merproject.org/~prjfetcher/mer/README.txt | 23:38 |
| sledges_ | as well as the other serbive is temporary unavailable: http://monster.tspre.org/~prjfetcher/mer/releases/0.20110920.1/kickstarts/mer-core-armv6l.ks | 23:38 |
| sledges_ | and I couldn't find README.txt in main of the projects on gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb . how does ~prjfetcher work anyways? :) | 23:39 |
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