Sunday, 2011-12-04

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sethstormcxl000: I'll see if I can get a video of it though00:50
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sethstormcxl000: it's panicing just a bit after ttyO2 gets mapped01:03
sethstorm(getting relevant pictures/short video up)01:10
sethstorm(where it ends up)01:17
sethstorm(the entire boot process, showing that it panics a bit after mapping /dev/ttyO2)01:18
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sethstormcxl000: it panics at the following "Unhandled Fault, imprecise external abort (0xc06) at 0x00000000"01:44
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sethstorm(which is 2 lines after)01:50
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Stskeepsmorn ScriptRipper08:29
lbt_morning all08:39
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Stskeepsmorn lbt08:40
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* Stskeeps fails at aggregates08:48
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Stskeepsin the dark depths of obs: can you linkpac an aggregate?09:02
Stskeepsmorn iekku :)09:03
iekkucoffee, omnom09:03
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lbthey slx09:32
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Stskeeps'lo DamonOehlman, so what brings you here?10:17
DamonOehlmanJust found out about mer - pretty interested to keep up with what's going on :)10:18
Stskeepshehe, welcome then :) feel free to hang out10:19
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DamonOehlmanthx - just looking through the wiki now10:20
Stskeepsso what's your focus? netbooks, tablets, interactive busstops?10:21
DamonOehlmantablets primarily I guess...10:23
Stskeepsplasma active project exists at least10:23
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DamonOehlmanHave to say, I'm really impressed with what I've seen so far.10:28
DamonOehlmanGot quite a few test devices kicking around, so might try a build or two sometime :)10:30
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* Stskeeps clones qt514:00
Stskeepstime to put bostik's qt5 packaging to use with mer :)14:00
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Stskeepshint for x86 people wanting to run in VM: xorg-x11-drv-vesa requires xorg-x11-server-setuid14:59
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: freemangordon talked to you about thumb? or rather not15:29
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: to you?15:29
Stskeepsyes, he did15:29
DocScrutinizerseems the conversation been rather futile15:30
DocScrutinizerI'm kinda depressed about his stubbornness to prove thumb working by deploying Qt for testing - he refuses to accept this not being a scientific/engineering way to tackle the issue15:32
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DocScrutinizernot even thinking about any plans to validate the sh*t, other than "if 10 users say WFM for a few weeks it's good enough" WTF?!15:33
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Stskeepswell, we've presented the facts15:34
DocScrutinizerhe "doesn't buy it" :-S15:35
dm8tbr*nod* we did, gave him enough rope to hang himself15:35
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: you'll get really fun failure reports that will not correllate at all. 'my device craps out at random times'15:36
DocScrutinizer*sigh* thanks pals15:36
DocScrutinizeryeah I know :-/15:36
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DocScrutinizer[2011-12-04 15:43:25] <DocScrutinizer> and the icing on top: NOBODY literally NOBODY will be able to tell if it's been your defective "fix" that failed when eventually a user's dialer or H-D or whatever reboots out of a sudden15:41
DocScrutinizer[2011-12-04 15:44:22] <DocScrutinizer> result: general image of CSSU/maemo becomes "unstable crap"15:41
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Stskeepsyeah, none of #mer's business :)15:41
DocScrutinizersure, sorry15:42
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Stskeepslo sledges_16:22
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sledges_how's it going Stskeeps ? Thanks to you I focus my ambition on the Mer project now16:27
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Stskeepsit's going well, been experimenting a bit with llvmpipe today16:41
Stskeepsso where do you hope to help?16:43
sledges_I just received Nokia N9, and the apps in it are simply crashing. I find my strong side would be porting (to other architectures as well), and eventually fixing those bugs to make the BSP usable: be it MeeGo for my current N9, or eventually most likely Mer16:47
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Stskeepssounds like a good thing to do :)16:47
Stskeepsmer has core as focus but a lot of adaptation projects exist around in the community16:48
Stskeeps#nemomobile for n9 adaptation16:48
sledges_brilliant, it's superb to discover everything from a person (you), rather than bumping around wikis et al.16:49
Stskeepsyeah, just help put the wiki in order, gives me more free time16:49
sledges_;)) a good start!16:50
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sledges_Stskeeps, I would like to kill off Android hype a bit, and offer my workplace to do CE Linux BSPs (board support packages); that's another thing I am here basically16:51
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Venemo_N950hey w00t :)16:51
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Stskeepssledges_: if you're getting crashes you should contact warranty services btw16:51
dm8tbrmake sure you are on latest firmware before that :)16:52
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sledges_Stskeeps: yes, they are not that friendly anymore (see last posts on N9 wifi issues thread in nokia forum: "Nokia [doesn't] care centre reply: WORKSFORME in most cases) thanks to Elop I guess...16:53
Stskeepssledges_: is it a 64gb n9?16:53
sledges_no, it's 16gb16:53
Stskeepshm, ok16:53
sledges_and Stskeeps, dm8tbr : yes I'm running PR1.1; so can't imagine what's wrong, hardware should be ok; facebook crashes after first news feed d/l, web browsers crashes when it wants..16:54
Venemo_N950sledges_, that should not be happening.16:54
sledges_just need to find time to attach the debugger ;)16:54
Stskeepsi'd take it to warranty, personally, it doesn't act like that, at all, for me16:54
Venemo_N950sledges_, it may be a hardware defect too.16:55
sledges_Venemo_N950: in which respect, some video processing aspects maybe? looks software to me, everything else seem to work16:55
dm8tbrI'd take a look at the syslog, there are a few nasty bugs in 1.1 and the only way to really get rid of them is full reflash16:55
sledges_is a long story (I guess I'm the odd one out): I bought this N9 off e-bay, the guy acquired it as being sold as the "US Version 850MHz", wonder if I could chase the receipt for warranty, or hopefully product revision number will suffice16:56
Venemo_N950sledges_, my old N900 used to behave like that after it fell down from my pocket.16:56
sledges_yup, can be that he did a dirty upgrade (if that's possible)16:56
sledges_dm8tbr: ^16:57
Stskeepsanyway, got any other ARM devices as well?16:57
sledges_Stskeeps: was about to write that16:57
sledges_a new client at our workplace next week will want consultancy for their ARM11 tablet, I have 4 days left to prop up with a nice Linux MeeGo/Harmattan shiny looking demo, I got some dev boards and some handhelds. What could you recommend as a quick start?16:58
Stskeepswell, i'd start with a rope16:59
Stskeepsas arm11 is a bit underpowered for linux/nemomobile ;)16:59
Stskeepsbut i'd recommend you to try and boot mer armv6 on your device and do some qml16:59
dm8tbrplasma is probably EGL heavy too?17:00
sledges_so mer does not include a GUI? (soz for not having read the docs yet)17:00
dm8tbrmer is just a core17:00
Stskeepssledges_: so mer's a core and you build things on top of it.. but you can dump a lot of stuff on top17:00
sledges_ok, sounds already nice ;)17:00
dm8tbryou can put UI on top and put your HW adaptation below17:00
sledges_which boils down to a kernel, dm8tbr17:00
dm8tbrnot 100%17:01
sledges_and a bootloader17:01
Stskeepsyou'll need 2.6.32 or above for kernel17:01
sledges_(finally not a stone age :))17:01
Stskeepssledges_: kernel, bootloader, gles libraries, possibly xorg driver, .. input devices, audio, ... etc17:01
dm8tbrEGL/GLES is also sort of hw17:01
dm8tbrpower management17:01
Stskeepsso, yeah, i'd start out with something qml like17:02
sledges_gles are tied with kernel modules, and devs are again down to the kernel? and PM is down to tailoring it against the board you have, surely..17:02
dm8tbrmer-ux? ;o)17:02
sledges_so only xGL libs are somewhere in both kernel and user spaces..17:02
Stskeepsjust saying that all those parts are outside the core :)17:02
sledges_what's the performance drop, due to the fact that Mer is a core, still a middle tier though17:03
Stskeepsperformance drop of not having GLESv2 or what do you mean?17:04
sledges_I'm sure this project thrives due to you guys having it glued virtually seamlessly ;)17:04
sledges_well, if you have multilayered architecture, the amount of interfaces increased introduce latency17:04
Stskeepsyeah, okay17:04
Stskeepslong story short our core is what is needed to drive basic startup, and the qt apis17:05
sledges_still better than Android and its Dalvik (:goes green:)17:05
Stskeepsso it's pretty close to the iron17:05
Stskeepsa lot of this is just for building software, not installed17:05
dm8tbrthink of it as 'common set of libraries and tools' that you'd need anyway (unless you throw out userspace and write something own like android did)17:06
sledges_wonder if I could come up with something shiny over next 5 days, is feels like time as for €uro now :))17:06
dm8tbrsledges_: that silly-cone does not do GLES does it?17:06
Stskeepssledges_: well, there's a plugin to export photoshop to qml17:06
Stskeepssledges_: that could be a nice demo17:07
sledges_Stskeeps: something like Crank UI ?17:07
Stskeepswell, or gim17:07
sledges_yes, that was the word that popped in my mind immed :)17:07
sledges_dm8tbr: don't know yet17:07
Stskeepsyou design your stuff in photoshop and you can export it straight to your device17:07
* dm8tbr hands sledges_ more rope, he'll need it17:07
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Stskeepsdm8tbr: well, technically qml can run ok on 200mhz17:08
sledges_pity nemomobile it too much wamped up, why did the customer go for ARM11...17:08
sledges_that takes away some cards I thought I had on the table17:09
dm8tbrbecause it's cheap17:09
dm8tbryou can buy generic arm11 tablets by the container from china ;)17:09
dm8tbrcool beans that video17:10
Stskeeps is also kinda impressive17:10
Venemo_N950Stskeeps, so one could even make a responsive qml gui on the N8x0?17:11
StskeepsVenemo_N950: if people spent time on improving the adaptation, yeah17:11
Venemo_N950what's missing?17:11
Stskeepsxorg driver manual update handling, for instance17:12
Stskeepscheck the wiki17:12
sledges_other cards (for demo and reconvincing the client to give up on ARM11) I've got are: HTC Wildfire (ARM11, Qualcomm), OpenMoko Neo FreeRunner (ARMv4T Samsung SoC), Freescale i.MX32 QSB and HTC Hermes (ARMv5Tx Samsung SoC)17:12
sledges_(well, Wildfire is same cheapy arm11, pity that android runs on it, and I am actually still using it)17:13
sledges_shoot, google _did_ some [insert your adjective here] job17:13
Stskeepssure it's a i.mx32 and not .31?17:14
Stskeepsimx53 is more likely to convince, you can actually get GLESv2 for it17:14
Stskeepsand it's armv7-a17:14
sledges_yes, so I could already run MeeGo on it17:15
dm8tbrmh, I think smoku had something cooking for imx17:15
Stskeepsyeah, but no gles, meego's hardfp only17:15
sledges_but I got no touchscreen, so can't convey tablet experience for them either17:15
sledges_great, good to know17:15
Stskeepswe have both in mer17:15
Stskeepsand screw touchscreen, a mouse is good :P17:16
sledges_lol, imagine a tablet operated with a mouse :))17:16
Stskeepsi'd drop the freerunner, htc hermes as we don't have ports for that in mer17:16
Stskeepshtc wildfire you can't assume to get gles on17:17
dm8tbrsledges_: if you are after development hardware that looks like a product you could consider Archos gen8 devices. OMAP3, so GLES, open boot-loader, UART documented.17:17
sledges_you mean for that ARMv , or just this particular hardware adaptability, i thought it's outside the core?17:17
Stskeepswell, mer is built for X86 (atom, non-atom), ARMv6, ARMv7 (softfp, hardfp)17:17
Stskeepslike, generic instruction sets17:17
sledges_and Stskeeps wildfire is arm11, so as you mentioned is underpowered17:18
sledges_I see, thanks for all the bits chaps!17:19
Venemo_N950dm8tbr, how about gen9?17:19
Stskeepsi'd go with the imx53 personally and show what you can get with what's considered low end17:19
dm8tbrVenemo_N950: no official SDE yet, but should be coming real-soon™ with plasma-active17:19
Venemo_N950i see17:20
dm8tbrI'm not sure sledges_' client would like to buy OMAP4 silicon in quantity though, etc :)17:20
sledges_so, for a quick-and-dirty plan-of-action: I grab i.MX53's pure kernel, grab Mer and whack nemomobile on top?17:21
kyb3RStskeeps: both of those articles we discussed are at They are conbined in same file. I bet you find the one :)17:21
Stskeepsimx53 kernel, gles libraries, mer armv7l, mix it together in a pot, run some tests that gles works, etc17:21
sledges_(by pure I mean not Androided)17:21
Stskeepsand then try to add things on top17:22
Stskeepskyb3R: ta17:22
Stskeepskyb3R: what's with the weird :1840 port btw?17:22
sledges_and, Stskeeps, the top [shiny] things being nemomobile or QML chores?17:22
kyb3Rthe server we have is vserver and it runs another apache at port 8017:23
Stskeepssledges_: nemomobile can possibly run but i can't guarantee it17:23
Stskeepskyb3R: look into mod_proxy and apache17:23
sledges_would be nice to benchmark GLES video performance alongside with android in front of the customer ;) i.MX53 has android bsp running from adeneo at the moment. doesn't look sluggish either (main UI navigation)17:23
kyb3RWill do...when I have the time for it17:24
Stskeepskyb3R: made my life so much easier when i discovered it17:25
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sledges_thanks fellows! I will save this irclog as my golden starting point :)17:32
sledges_give me hope or give me rope, going to attempt to fight the windmills §}17:32
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matrixxis there currently Mer + PA image for i586 somewhere?17:40
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BostikStskeeps: it has some awkward bits right now, there were a lot of "let's break everything" commits last week18:07
BostikStskeeps: and I haven't managed to keep up with all of them yet18:07
Stskeepsyeah, current one fails18:10
Stskeepsthough only with "unpackaged file"18:10
BostikI had the wednesday evening state in shape, and then all hell broke loose18:11
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Stskeepsmatrixx: hmm, not sure, javier / mdfe would usually know18:31
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Kris_CZhi, I wanted to run zypper but after entering su I do not know the password18:40
dm8tbrdid you try 'meego' and 'mer'18:40
Kris_CZhm its meego i try nemo :-)18:41
Stskeepsit's meego for stupid reasons atm :)18:43
sledges_i'm talking to you on this irc client on my MeeGo 1.1 run on Asus EeePC 1005HA ;) fast as lighning! run pylons+sqlsever and can webdev on the rain18:44
sledges_train lol18:44
sledges_sqllite to be true18:45
Stskeepshehe :)18:46
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Stskeepsit's sad we don't have a good netbook solution18:46
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind seeing a qt based one18:46
dm8tbrwasn't there something about plasma and netbooks?18:48
Stskeepsno, plasma active18:48
sledges_rite! one more keyword ;)18:48
Stskeepswe should really start /Dictionary..18:49
sledges_is harmattan == a MeeGo 1.2 Hangset UX ?18:51
Stskeepsnah, it's actually maemo6 but shares a lot of technologies18:52
XasePlasma Active looks sweet.18:55
sledges_right, got your point Stskeeps: Nokia withdrew from MeeGo and stuck with Maemo and forked off Harmattan for N9; has anyone heard of Meltemi being materialised in any way?19:03
Stskeepssledges_: nah, it's worse than that19:05
sledges_just for the low-end budget linux phones in Nokia's future, if any (for both :))19:05
Stskeepsmaemo6/harmattan existed first, then came meego codebase, nokia withdrew from meego and published the harmattan codebase19:05
sledges_so harmattan had never been merged?19:06
Stskeepswell, you see Nemo?19:06
Stskeepsthat's the open source harmattan bits19:06
sledges_yup, i was asking whether harmattan ever made it into MeeGo19:06
Stskeepsnot really19:06
Stskeepsit's a sad tale, but now we have mer and we're all happier19:06
sledges_yes, past it a misery, future is a mistery, .... ;)19:07
Ans5iknocks on wood19:11
sledges_if we put enough effort, might throw the wood altogether :)19:12
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Stskeepsany debianites in the house?19:36
Stskeepswhat on -earth- does                libgamin-dev [!linux-any] | libfam-dev [!linux-any],19:37
Stskeeps mean?19:37
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Stskeepswell, i think it means i can get rid of a circular dependancy and gamin19:47
Stskeepsless footprint, yay19:47
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sledges_nice! I remember on small-footprint BSPs (buildroot etc.) writing a python script to identify orphaned .so files and remove them (?)safely to shrink shrink shrink :)19:52
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Stskeepshehe, dlopen() screws that up a bit19:55
sledges_i think my lack of knowledge just worked that around: I did strings instead of ldd :))19:55
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Stskeepsah, clever ;)19:57
Stskeepsi wonder why bash doesn't link to readline19:57
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sledges_hm, explain me this: that 'script' already on two different rootfs suggested removal of ! (and other libnss_*) - as nothing directly depend on them (kernel!? no way), but as soon as you remove libnss_dns _external_ dns name resolution fails, but syscall gethostbyaddr doesn't, and for /etc/hosts still does its job lol20:00
Stskeepssledges_: probably dynamic loading and nss configuration20:00
sledges_yea, they do dlopen("libnss_%s...' along those lines :)20:00
sledges_but what headache and time-spent I had to find this out! :D20:01
sledges_as obviously i forgot which [critical] files got trimmed from under /lib.. :)20:01
* Stskeeps files mer bug 3020:01
sledges_and DNS system just borked20:01
Stskeepsthere's just really crazy things in the gnu/linux stack at times20:06
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sledges_makes life more exciting20:07
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sledges_and still not even wanting to go anywhere near the otherworld (apple and m$)20:08
berndhsi'm sure some of the closed code is even more exciting and stays closed to avoid embarassement :)20:10
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind having to deal with three different security libs and five different ways to do an interactive command line20:10
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mdaveyvgrade: you going to CHASE tomorrow evening?22:38
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* sledges `has anyone gone to OHSW Munich to shed some PR around?22:49
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vgrademdavey, thanks for the link, I think I might23:20
mdaveyokay, I might see you there, then :)23:21
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