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| sethstorm | cxl000: I'll see if I can get a video of it though | 00:50 |
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| sethstorm | cxl000: it's panicing just a bit after ttyO2 gets mapped | 01:03 |
| sethstorm | (getting relevant pictures/short video up) | 01:10 |
| sethstorm | http://caonima.de/images/n810/n810w_kernelpanic.jpg | 01:16 |
| sethstorm | (where it ends up) | 01:17 |
| sethstorm | http://caonima.de/images/n810/n810w_boot.mp4 | 01:17 |
| sethstorm | (the entire boot process, showing that it panics a bit after mapping /dev/ttyO2) | 01:18 |
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| sethstorm | cxl000: it panics at the following "Unhandled Fault, imprecise external abort (0xc06) at 0x00000000" | 01:44 |
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| sethstorm | (which is 2 lines after) | 01:50 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 07:04 |
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| Stskeeps | morn ScriptRipper | 08:29 |
| lbt_ | morning all | 08:39 |
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| Stskeeps | morn lbt | 08:40 |
| lbt | hey | 08:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | morning | 08:44 |
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| * Stskeeps fails at aggregates | 08:48 | |
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| Stskeeps | in the dark depths of obs: can you linkpac an aggregate? | 09:02 |
| iekku | morning | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | morn iekku :) | 09:03 |
| iekku | coffee, omnom | 09:03 |
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| lbt | hey slx | 09:32 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo DamonOehlman, so what brings you here? | 10:17 |
| DamonOehlman | Just found out about mer - pretty interested to keep up with what's going on :) | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, welcome then :) feel free to hang out | 10:19 |
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| DamonOehlman | thx - just looking through the wiki now | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | so what's your focus? netbooks, tablets, interactive busstops? | 10:21 |
| DamonOehlman | tablets primarily I guess... | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | plasma active project exists at least | 10:23 |
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| DamonOehlman | Have to say, I'm really impressed with what I've seen so far. | 10:28 |
| DamonOehlman | Got quite a few test devices kicking around, so might try a build or two sometime :) | 10:30 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:41 |
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| * Stskeeps clones qt5 | 14:00 | |
| Stskeeps | time to put bostik's qt5 packaging to use with mer :) | 14:00 |
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| Stskeeps | hint for x86 people wanting to run in VM: xorg-x11-drv-vesa requires xorg-x11-server-setuid | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: freemangordon talked to you about thumb? or rather not | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: to you? | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | yes, he did | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems the conversation been rather futile | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm kinda depressed about his stubbornness to prove thumb working by deploying Qt for testing - he refuses to accept this not being a scientific/engineering way to tackle the issue | 15:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not even thinking about any plans to validate the sh*t, other than "if 10 users say WFM for a few weeks it's good enough" WTF?! | 15:33 |
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| Stskeeps | well, we've presented the facts | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | he "doesn't buy it" :-S | 15:35 |
| dm8tbr | *nod* we did, gave him enough rope to hang himself | 15:35 |
| dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: you'll get really fun failure reports that will not correllate at all. 'my device craps out at random times' | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* thanks pals | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah I know :-/ | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2011-12-04 15:43:25] <DocScrutinizer> and the icing on top: NOBODY literally NOBODY will be able to tell if it's been your defective "fix" that failed when eventually a user's dialer or H-D or whatever reboots out of a sudden | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-12-04 15:44:22] <DocScrutinizer> result: general image of CSSU/maemo becomes "unstable crap" | 15:41 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, none of #mer's business :) | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, sorry | 15:42 |
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| sledges_ | hello | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | lo sledges_ | 16:22 |
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| sledges_ | how's it going Stskeeps ? Thanks to you I focus my ambition on the Mer project now | 16:27 |
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| Stskeeps | it's going well, been experimenting a bit with llvmpipe today | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | so where do you hope to help? | 16:43 |
| sledges_ | I just received Nokia N9, and the apps in it are simply crashing. I find my strong side would be porting (to other architectures as well), and eventually fixing those bugs to make the BSP usable: be it MeeGo for my current N9, or eventually most likely Mer | 16:47 |
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| Stskeeps | sounds like a good thing to do :) | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | mer has core as focus but a lot of adaptation projects exist around in the community | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | #nemomobile for n9 adaptation | 16:48 |
| sledges_ | brilliant, it's superb to discover everything from a person (you), rather than bumping around wikis et al. | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, just help put the wiki in order, gives me more free time | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:49 |
| sledges_ | ;)) a good start! | 16:50 |
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| sledges_ | Stskeeps, I would like to kill off Android hype a bit, and offer my workplace to do CE Linux BSPs (board support packages); that's another thing I am here basically | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 16:51 |
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| Venemo_N950 | hey w00t :) | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | sledges_: if you're getting crashes you should contact warranty services btw | 16:51 |
| dm8tbr | make sure you are on latest firmware before that :) | 16:52 |
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| sledges_ | Stskeeps: yes, they are not that friendly anymore (see last posts on N9 wifi issues thread in nokia forum: "Nokia [doesn't] care centre reply: WORKSFORME in most cases) thanks to Elop I guess... | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: is it a 64gb n9? | 16:53 |
| sledges_ | no, it's 16gb | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | hm, ok | 16:53 |
| sledges_ | and Stskeeps, dm8tbr : yes I'm running PR1.1; so can't imagine what's wrong, hardware should be ok; facebook crashes after first news feed d/l, web browsers crashes when it wants.. | 16:54 |
| Venemo_N950 | sledges_, that should not be happening. | 16:54 |
| sledges_ | just need to find time to attach the debugger ;) | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | i'd take it to warranty, personally, it doesn't act like that, at all, for me | 16:54 |
| Venemo_N950 | sledges_, it may be a hardware defect too. | 16:55 |
| sledges_ | Venemo_N950: in which respect, some video processing aspects maybe? looks software to me, everything else seem to work | 16:55 |
| dm8tbr | I'd take a look at the syslog, there are a few nasty bugs in 1.1 and the only way to really get rid of them is full reflash | 16:55 |
| sledges_ | is a long story (I guess I'm the odd one out): I bought this N9 off e-bay, the guy acquired it as being sold as the "US Version 850MHz", wonder if I could chase the receipt for warranty, or hopefully product revision number will suffice | 16:56 |
| Venemo_N950 | sledges_, my old N900 used to behave like that after it fell down from my pocket. | 16:56 |
| sledges_ | yup, can be that he did a dirty upgrade (if that's possible) | 16:56 |
| sledges_ | dm8tbr: ^ | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, got any other ARM devices as well? | 16:57 |
| sledges_ | Stskeeps: was about to write that | 16:57 |
| sledges_ | a new client at our workplace next week will want consultancy for their ARM11 tablet, I have 4 days left to prop up with a nice Linux MeeGo/Harmattan shiny looking demo, I got some dev boards and some handhelds. What could you recommend as a quick start? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, i'd start with a rope | 16:59 |
| dm8tbr | *nod* | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | as arm11 is a bit underpowered for linux/nemomobile ;) | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | but i'd recommend you to try and boot mer armv6 on your device and do some qml | 16:59 |
| dm8tbr | plasma is probably EGL heavy too? | 17:00 |
| sledges_ | so mer does not include a GUI? (soz for not having read the docs yet) | 17:00 |
| dm8tbr | mer is just a core | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: so mer's a core and you build things on top of it.. but you can dump a lot of stuff on top | 17:00 |
| sledges_ | ok, sounds already nice ;) | 17:00 |
| dm8tbr | you can put UI on top and put your HW adaptation below | 17:00 |
| sledges_ | which boils down to a kernel, dm8tbr | 17:00 |
| dm8tbr | not 100% | 17:01 |
| sledges_ | and a bootloader | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | you'll need 2.6.32 or above for kernel | 17:01 |
| sledges_ | (finally not a stone age :)) | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: kernel, bootloader, gles libraries, possibly xorg driver, .. input devices, audio, ... etc | 17:01 |
| dm8tbr | EGL/GLES is also sort of hw | 17:01 |
| dm8tbr | power management | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | so, yeah, i'd start out with something qml like | 17:02 |
| sledges_ | gles are tied with kernel modules, and devs are again down to the kernel? and PM is down to tailoring it against the board you have, surely.. | 17:02 |
| dm8tbr | mer-ux? ;o) | 17:02 |
| sledges_ | so only xGL libs are somewhere in both kernel and user spaces.. | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | just saying that all those parts are outside the core :) | 17:02 |
| sledges_ | what's the performance drop, due to the fact that Mer is a core, still a middle tier though | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | performance drop of not having GLESv2 or what do you mean? | 17:04 |
| sledges_ | I'm sure this project thrives due to you guys having it glued virtually seamlessly ;) | 17:04 |
| sledges_ | well, if you have multilayered architecture, the amount of interfaces increased introduce latency | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, okay | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | long story short our core is what is needed to drive basic startup, and the qt apis | 17:05 |
| sledges_ | still better than Android and its Dalvik (:goes green:) | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | so it's pretty close to the iron | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | http://gitweb.merproject.org/gitweb | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | a lot of this is just for building software, not installed | 17:05 |
| dm8tbr | think of it as 'common set of libraries and tools' that you'd need anyway (unless you throw out userspace and write something own like android did) | 17:06 |
| sledges_ | wonder if I could come up with something shiny over next 5 days, is feels like time as for €uro now :)) | 17:06 |
| dm8tbr | sledges_: that silly-cone does not do GLES does it? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: well, there's a plugin to export photoshop to qml | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: that could be a nice demo | 17:07 |
| sledges_ | Stskeeps: something like Crank UI ? | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | well, or gim | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | p | 17:07 |
| sledges_ | gimp | 17:07 |
| sledges_ | yes, that was the word that popped in my mind immed :) | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/10/19/exporting-qml-from-photoshop-and-gimp/ | 17:07 |
| sledges_ | dm8tbr: don't know yet | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | you design your stuff in photoshop and you can export it straight to your device | 17:07 |
| * dm8tbr hands sledges_ more rope, he'll need it | 17:07 | |
| sledges_ | :)) | 17:08 |
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| Stskeeps | dm8tbr: well, technically qml can run ok on 200mhz | 17:08 |
| sledges_ | pity nemomobile it too much wamped up, why did the customer go for ARM11... | 17:08 |
| sledges_ | that takes away some cards I thought I had on the table | 17:09 |
| dm8tbr | because it's cheap | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVPOEmOVnQ&feature=related | 17:09 |
| dm8tbr | you can buy generic arm11 tablets by the container from china ;) | 17:09 |
| dm8tbr | cool beans that video | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqsHiRE6XqI&feature=related is also kinda impressive | 17:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | Stskeeps, so one could even make a responsive qml gui on the N8x0? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo_N950: if people spent time on improving the adaptation, yeah | 17:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | what's missing? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | xorg driver manual update handling, for instance | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | check the wiki | 17:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | ok | 17:12 |
| sledges_ | other cards (for demo and reconvincing the client to give up on ARM11) I've got are: HTC Wildfire (ARM11, Qualcomm), OpenMoko Neo FreeRunner (ARMv4T Samsung SoC), Freescale i.MX32 QSB and HTC Hermes (ARMv5Tx Samsung SoC) | 17:12 |
| sledges_ | (well, Wildfire is same cheapy arm11, pity that android runs on it, and I am actually still using it) | 17:13 |
| sledges_ | shoot, google _did_ some [insert your adjective here] job | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | sure it's a i.mx32 and not .31? | 17:14 |
| sledges_ | 53 | 17:14 |
| sledges_ | soz | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | imx53 is more likely to convince, you can actually get GLESv2 for it | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | and it's armv7-a | 17:14 |
| sledges_ | yes, so I could already run MeeGo on it | 17:15 |
| dm8tbr | mh, I think smoku had something cooking for imx | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but no gles, meego's hardfp only | 17:15 |
| sledges_ | but I got no touchscreen, so can't convey tablet experience for them either | 17:15 |
| sledges_ | great, good to know | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | we have both in mer | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | and screw touchscreen, a mouse is good :P | 17:16 |
| sledges_ | lol, imagine a tablet operated with a mouse :)) | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | i'd drop the freerunner, htc hermes as we don't have ports for that in mer | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | htc wildfire you can't assume to get gles on | 17:17 |
| dm8tbr | sledges_: if you are after development hardware that looks like a product you could consider Archos gen8 devices. OMAP3, so GLES, open boot-loader, UART documented. | 17:17 |
| sledges_ | you mean for that ARMv , or just this particular hardware adaptability, i thought it's outside the core? | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, mer is built for X86 (atom, non-atom), ARMv6, ARMv7 (softfp, hardfp) | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | like, generic instruction sets | 17:17 |
| sledges_ | and Stskeeps wildfire is arm11, so as you mentioned is underpowered | 17:18 |
| sledges_ | I see, thanks for all the bits chaps! | 17:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | dm8tbr, how about gen9? | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | i'd go with the imx53 personally and show what you can get with what's considered low end | 17:19 |
| dm8tbr | Venemo_N950: no official SDE yet, but should be coming real-soon™ with plasma-active | 17:19 |
| dm8tbr | http://dot.kde.org/2011/11/30/plasma-active-archos-g9-tablet | 17:20 |
| Venemo_N950 | i see | 17:20 |
| dm8tbr | I'm not sure sledges_' client would like to buy OMAP4 silicon in quantity though, etc :) | 17:20 |
| sledges_ | so, for a quick-and-dirty plan-of-action: I grab i.MX53's pure kernel, grab Mer and whack nemomobile on top? | 17:21 |
| kyb3R | Stskeeps: both of those articles we discussed are at http://open-coral.org:1480/material/TUT-material/ They are conbined in same file. I bet you find the one :) | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | imx53 kernel, gles libraries, mer armv7l, mix it together in a pot, run some tests that gles works, etc | 17:21 |
| sledges_ | (by pure I mean not Androided) | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | and then try to add things on top | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: ta | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: what's with the weird :1840 port btw? | 17:22 |
| sledges_ | and, Stskeeps, the top [shiny] things being nemomobile or QML chores? | 17:22 |
| kyb3R | the server we have is vserver and it runs another apache at port 80 | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: nemomobile can possibly run but i can't guarantee it | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: look into mod_proxy and apache | 17:23 |
| sledges_ | would be nice to benchmark GLES video performance alongside with android in front of the customer ;) i.MX53 has android bsp running from adeneo at the moment. doesn't look sluggish either (main UI navigation) | 17:23 |
| kyb3R | Will do...when I have the time for it | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: made my life so much easier when i discovered it | 17:25 |
| kyb3R | :) | 17:26 |
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| sledges_ | thanks fellows! I will save this irclog as my golden starting point :) | 17:32 |
| sledges_ | give me hope or give me rope, going to attempt to fight the windmills §} | 17:32 |
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| matrixx | is there currently Mer + PA image for i586 somewhere? | 17:40 |
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| Bostik | Stskeeps: it has some awkward bits right now, there were a lot of "let's break everything" commits last week | 18:07 |
| Bostik | Stskeeps: and I haven't managed to keep up with all of them yet | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, current one fails | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | though only with "unpackaged file" | 18:10 |
| Bostik | I had the wednesday evening state in shape, and then all hell broke loose | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | matrixx: hmm, not sure, javier / mdfe would usually know | 18:31 |
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| Kris_CZ | hi, I wanted to run zypper but after entering su I do not know the password | 18:40 |
| dm8tbr | did you try 'meego' and 'mer' | 18:40 |
| Kris_CZ | hm its meego i try nemo :-) | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | it's meego for stupid reasons atm :) | 18:43 |
| sledges_ | i'm talking to you on this irc client on my MeeGo 1.1 run on Asus EeePC 1005HA ;) fast as lighning! run pylons+sqlsever and can webdev on the rain | 18:44 |
| sledges_ | train lol | 18:44 |
| sledges_ | sqllite to be true | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | hehe :) | 18:46 |
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| Stskeeps | it's sad we don't have a good netbook solution | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind seeing a qt based one | 18:46 |
| sledges_ | yup | 18:46 |
| dm8tbr | wasn't there something about plasma and netbooks? | 18:48 |
| sledges_ | lcd? | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | no, plasma active | 18:48 |
| sledges_ | rite! one more keyword ;) | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | we should really start /Dictionary.. | 18:49 |
| sledges_ | wiki | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:49 |
| sledges_ | is harmattan == a MeeGo 1.2 Hangset UX ? | 18:51 |
| sledges_ | Handset | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | nah, it's actually maemo6 but shares a lot of technologies | 18:52 |
| sledges_ | lol | 18:53 |
| Xase | Plasma Active looks sweet. | 18:55 |
| sledges_ | right, got your point Stskeeps: Nokia withdrew from MeeGo and stuck with Maemo and forked off Harmattan for N9; has anyone heard of Meltemi being materialised in any way? | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: nah, it's worse than that | 19:05 |
| sledges_ | just for the low-end budget linux phones in Nokia's future, if any (for both :)) | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | maemo6/harmattan existed first, then came meego codebase, nokia withdrew from meego and published the harmattan codebase | 19:05 |
| sledges_ | so harmattan had never been merged? | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | well, you see Nemo? | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | that's the open source harmattan bits | 19:06 |
| sledges_ | yup, i was asking whether harmattan ever made it into MeeGo | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | not really | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | it's a sad tale, but now we have mer and we're all happier | 19:06 |
| sledges_ | yes, past it a misery, future is a mistery, .... ;) | 19:07 |
| Ans5i | knocks on wood | 19:11 |
| sledges_ | if we put enough effort, might throw the wood altogether :) | 19:12 |
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| Stskeeps | any debianites in the house? | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | what on -earth- does libgamin-dev [!linux-any] | libfam-dev [!linux-any], | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | mean? | 19:37 |
| dm8tbr | o.O | 19:40 |
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| Stskeeps | well, i think it means i can get rid of a circular dependancy and gamin | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | less footprint, yay | 19:47 |
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| sledges_ | nice! I remember on small-footprint BSPs (buildroot etc.) writing a python script to identify orphaned .so files and remove them (?)safely to shrink shrink shrink :) | 19:52 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe, dlopen() screws that up a bit | 19:55 |
| sledges_ | i think my lack of knowledge just worked that around: I did strings instead of ldd :)) | 19:55 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, clever ;) | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder why bash doesn't link to readline | 19:57 |
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| sledges_ | hm, explain me this: that 'script' already on two different rootfs suggested removal of libnss_dns.so ! (and other libnss_*) - as nothing directly depend on them (kernel!? no way), but as soon as you remove libnss_dns _external_ dns name resolution fails, but syscall gethostbyaddr doesn't, and for /etc/hosts still does its job lol | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | sledges_: probably dynamic loading and nss configuration | 20:00 |
| sledges_ | yea, they do dlopen("libnss_%s...' along those lines :) | 20:00 |
| sledges_ | but what headache and time-spent I had to find this out! :D | 20:01 |
| sledges_ | as obviously i forgot which [critical] files got trimmed from under /lib.. :) | 20:01 |
| * Stskeeps files mer bug 30 | 20:01 | |
| sledges_ | and DNS system just borked | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | there's just really crazy things in the gnu/linux stack at times | 20:06 |
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| sledges_ | makes life more exciting | 20:07 |
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| sledges_ | and still not even wanting to go anywhere near the otherworld (apple and m$) | 20:08 |
| berndhs | i'm sure some of the closed code is even more exciting and stays closed to avoid embarassement :) | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind having to deal with three different security libs and five different ways to do an interactive command line | 20:10 |
| Stskeeps | not | 20:11 |
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| vgrade | matrixx, http://share.basyskom.com/contour/Deployment/mer_x86_usb_live_and_install_archive/ | 21:24 |
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| mdavey | vgrade: you going to CHASE tomorrow evening? | 22:38 |
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| * sledges `has anyone gone to OHSW Munich to shed some PR around? | 22:49 | |
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| vgrade | mdavey, thanks for the link, I think I might | 23:20 |
| mdavey | okay, I might see you there, then :) | 23:21 |
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