Friday, 2011-12-02

DocScrutinizerStskeeps: you happen to know anything about possible silicon errata (bugs in CPU) related to N900 OMAP3430 thumb ?00:01
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: or maybe you know how to contact konttori?00:02
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araujodamnshock, well, you could try latest Nemo release, it is using that image afaik01:30
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cxl000rdesfo If you can boot your own kernel on the device and have graphics/device drivers/firmware for it then you can probably develop an adaptation that will allow running mer01:41
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: thumbs are broken, pun intended05:06
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: yes, that05:22
DocScrutinizer's what I recall as well, but what *exactly* is broken05:23
DocScrutinizeras freemangordon now starts to compile Qt in thumb, claiming all the problems were mere compiler bugs05:24
dm8tbrI suppose if I spend half an hour digging through IRC logs I'd find it, but basically there are two errata that are of such nature that they can't both be fixed at the same time05:24
DocScrutinizerthanks a lot05:24
dm8tbrand mind you there are two kernel fixes that can be activated, but they are mutually exclusive05:25
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I think that was the discussion, back then™05:27
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: - specifically05:30
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: great, thanks05:30
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: btw - it's entirely possible that his code will run for hours without problems and then spontaneously combust into a giant fireball. at least that's what carsten and me saw.05:34
DocScrutinizerthat's what silicon bugs are like, yes :-) thanks anyway for confirming it, as freemangordon wasn't inclined to trust in my words05:35
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dm8tbrthe other part of that conversation probably happened on #meego-arm05:37
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DocScrutinizer#meego-arm seems dead, even the chanlog link05:46
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: thumb2 is immensel broken on n90005:51
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: here's my log of that
DocScrutinizeryou happen to know which "objdump $FILE|grep foo" or whatever incantation tells me for sure if a binary is thumb or not?05:53
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: disassembly, i guess, you might be able to see thumb instructions05:54
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DocScrutinizer:nod: if only I'd know them even when I see05:55
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: it's so broken that bash in thumb can work ok one moment and constantly segfault after05:55
DocScrutinizerI boticed some files, esp the erratically thumbified modest, had 16bit opcodes and lots of "invalid" instructions05:56
DocScrutinizerwhich vanished after compiling modest correctly05:56
DocScrutinizerstill I need a way to scann whole /usr/bin/* reliably for thumb05:57
Stskeepswell, thumb is 16 bit opcodes05:59
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Stskeepsmorn phaeron06:18
phaerongood morning06:19
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yup, gathered as much, and objdump -d seems to even display accordingly, but tbh it puzzles the sh*t outa me, as I see single 16bit instructions mixed with 32bit, and AIUI you ned a particular instruction (BX?) to switch to thumb mode and I can'T find anything like that either06:22
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yeah, i guess thumb interworking06:23
Stskeepslooking after that should make you able to see it06:23
Stskeepsbasically the thing about switching modes06:23
Stskeepsmeans linking ARM and thumb code together06:23
DocScrutinizerwould you know what the opcode (mnemonic or hex) looks like?06:24
DocScrutinizerduh, THAT's a cpu-hogging link, my brwoser seems like never finishing rendering06:26
DocScrutinizerOOOH it does06:26
DocScrutinizerBX, BL, nice :-S06:29
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: many thanks06:31
Stskeepswe'd be on thumb in mer/meego if it wasn't for n900 and other buggy sillicons06:31
Stskeepsthe qt issue is fixed in later qt versions06:31
DocScrutinizerthought as much, but why isn't HARM on thumb, at least partially (for the non-time-critical parts)?06:32
DocScrutinizerwell, I have to say I nly heard it's not (freemangordon)06:33
DocScrutinizermaybe I'm asking the wrong person in wrong channel :-D06:34
Stskeepsharm not on thumb.. now that's more interesting06:38
Stskeepsi think they had too old toolchain06:38
DocScrutinizeryeah, compiler had bugs too, that'S where freemangordon started to say "now I got a gcc that's supposed to work for thumb. I don't buy we got silicon errata as well" and announced he'll build Qt on thumb for CSSU now06:40
Stskeepsyeah, i would advise against it06:40
* DocScrutinizer did same06:40
Stskeepsit looks fine at first but when in actual deployment and most importantly idle states, as it will crash left and right06:40
DocScrutinizerthe random nature of modest crashes should have told enough06:41
DocScrutinizertypical for silicon errata, not exactly so for compiler bugs06:42
Stskeepsif you notice in changelogs of fremantle software, they actively spent time removing -mthumb that was in old n810 sw06:42
DocScrutinizerisn't it funny there's no big fat bold warning "DONT USE THUMB, CPU IS BORKED!" in a prominent location of fremantle SDK?06:45
Stskeepsi thought there was actually06:45
Stskeepsbut can't find it06:46
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Sageyey, all glib2 problem package fixes are in :)07:40
Stskeepsyeah.. switching CI tests to go on master instead07:43
Stskeepsso we can evaluate them better07:43
Stskeepsi really have to improve fakeobs performance, it takes ~0.5 sec per request07:48
Stskeepson the intensive-git ones07:48
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* Stskeeps finds a bug in fakeobs and fixes it..09:46
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Stskeepsturns out when you requested an old version of a package, it broke09:47
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jbossage pong10:15
jbosyou pinged me yesterday, I'm just back from some nice vacation :) how can I help?10:16
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Sagejbos: I was pondering about peregrine. You one of the devs, right?10:22
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SageStskeeps: any ideas about the maliit build failure with armv6l10:31
Stskeepsshow me?10:31
Sageactually phonon breaks to that too10:32
Sage/usr/bin/ld: maliit-server: hidden symbol `__sync_synchronize' in /usr/lib/gcc/armv6l-meego-linux-gnueabi/4.6.1/libgcc.a(linux-atomic.o) is referenced by DSO10:32
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Stskeepsi think we have a bug on that10:33
Sagebut any ideas about it? :)10:34
Stskeepsvery loosely10:34
Stskeepslo cajl10:34
cajli search this person :
Sage"I think you can fix this by linking shared libraries with -Wl,-lgcc."10:35
StskeepsSage: which is a bit scar10:35
Sage <- quite old (2009)10:36
Stskeepswell, test if it works with -Wl,-lgcc i guess in LDFLAGS10:36
cajli would like to install mer and plasma active on the Archos Gen 910:36
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* Stskeeps headdesks10:47
Stskeepslbt: tiny error in our instructions10:48
Stskeepsguess what linkpac -c does10:48
Sageg++ -Wl,-O1 -Wl,-lgcc,--as-needed -o maliit-server .obj/main.o .obj/mimdummyinputcontext.o .obj/mpassthruwindow.o .obj/moc_mimdummyinputcontext.o .obj/moc_mpassthruwindow.o    -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/lib ../src/ -lXfixes -lQtGui -lQtCore -lpthread -lXext -lX11 -lm10:48
Sage/usr/bin/ld: maliit-server: hidden symbol `__sync_synchronize' in /usr/lib/gcc/armv6l-meego-linux-gnueabi/4.6.1/libgcc.a(linux-atomic.o) is referenced by DSO10:48
Sagewhere does that first -Wl come? :)10:49
Stskeepslbt: makes the link stuck at this particular version10:49
Stskeepsit's meant to be -C copy10:49
* Stskeeps curses10:49
lbtah yes10:49
Stskeepsi486,i586 is fine, no need to re-bootstrap10:50
* Stskeeps ponders how to recitify situation without having to re-bootstrap10:50
jonnor_workProblems with maliit? (just joined in the middle of the conversation)10:50
Stskeepsjonnor_work: just awkward problems on armv6 builds10:51
Stskeepssee above10:51
SageStskeeps: where does that -Wl option come by default?10:53
Stskeepsit looks bad10:54
Sagethat another -Wl is from maliit and I can change that and added that -lgcc10:54
Sagebut I can't find the first one10:54
Sagenot in meego-rpm-configs or in maliit package10:55
Sagesame option is on others so at least not armv6l only11:00
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jbosSage, I'm the project responsible for peregrine @ basyskom. Right now we are in the middle of many other projects, which means the time for peregrine is really really short.12:08
jbosso there might come updates and changes, but mostlike not with the speed it had before, however at least for december, who knows what will be in future ;)12:11
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Stskeeps'lo felipec, got my mail with our n900 kernel config?12:15
felipecStskeeps: oh, yes... I already had an old meego config, but still somehow wasn't working12:16
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felipecStskeeps: I somehow got it working, but only on 3.2-rc3, I'm not sure if that newer config would improve things12:17
Stskeepsmm, well, i guess config matches well with our .37 one and the power management patches etc12:18
Stskeepsour team is significantly smaller these day so there's practically no kernel work ongoing for n900, but a quite stable .37 kernel12:19
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felipecStskeeps: the config you shared is for .38, no?12:20
Stskeeps.37 i think12:20
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Stskeeps <- for this kernel + patches12:21
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lodyworkhi all12:22
Stskeepslo lodywork12:23
lodyworkis the admin of mer here?12:23
felipecStskeeps: <- Linux kernel version: 2.6.28.rc7-4.netbook12:23
Stskeepsfelipec: yeah, ignore that part :P12:23
Stskeepsit's just a stupid effect of the insane kernel packaging we had in meego, we use that on our .37 kernel12:24
Stskeepslodywork: well, i think everyone involved with infrastructure etc is and contributors, yes12:24
xruxahmmm, is the raspberry pi board strong enough (GLES-wise) to run Nemo?12:24
Stskeepsxruxa: it doesn't have multiprocess gles12:24
Stskeepswhich makes some things suck12:24
felipecStskeeps: you should probably use the result of 'savedefconfig', it's much simpler and easier to maintain12:25
xruxaStskeeps: meaning single rendering context?12:25
lodyworkok @stskeeps12:25
Stskeepsfelipec: agreed12:25
felipecmake savedefconfig12:25
Stskeepsfelipec: on other devices we've switched to a lot less complicated kernel packaging12:25
Stskeepslodywork: so i'm one, and what's up?12:25
Stskeepsxruxa: as in, you talk to gles on the framebuffer practically12:26
Stskeepsno x11 egl12:26
lodyworki was wondering about system requirments of Mer12:26
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Stskeepslodywork: Mer has ports for Atom (SSSE3), non-Atom x86, ARMv6, ARMv7 softfp and hardfp12:27
Stskeepslodywork: we've had Mer with xorg+connman+ofono+bluez+3D support+QML viewer (qt) up in 37mb ram12:27
lodyworkstskeeps: i mean how much memory will you expect it will use12:27
StskeepsMer's just a core, so it really depends on what you throw on top of it12:28
felipecStskeeps: there's no UI?12:28
lodyworkyou can port icewm12:29
Stskeepsfelipec: we define Mer as being the core, minus hardware adaptation and minus UI -- those are projects outside, that way we can focus on the core work without politics on which side Cancel is in, in a dialog box12:29
Stskeepsfelipec: so we're just a lean and mean Linux/Qt+HTML5+JS core12:29
Stskeepsfelipec: Nemo (the former community edition) is a seperate project, that bases upon Mer, as an example, and delivers hardware adaptations for various devices12:30
lodyworki found these around
Stskeepslodywork: yeah, those are old12:30
lodyworkbut i loved it12:31
Stskeepslodywork: should be easy to create in QML if you want to :)12:31
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lodyworkthats right12:31
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felipecStskeeps: makes sense, the core is really important. But I feel without a nice UI people won't chime in12:32
lodyworkso is there any image to dload right now12:32
Stskeepsfelipec: so far we have Plasma Active and Nemo basing upon it, even Cordia (hildon desktop based) and other people doing work, contributing in the areas of the core they can12:32
lodyworkthats even nicer12:33
Stskeepsfelipec: happen to have seen Nemo on top of Mer video?12:34
lodyworkso.. how can i but this on my android mobile??12:35
Stskeepslodywork: if you want to put it on a device, you need a hardware adaptation that provides GLESv2/EGL typically -- and most android mobiles doesn't come with traditional gnu/linux hardware adaptations12:36
felipecStskeeps: nope... Nice!12:36
lodyworkits 528MHz ARMv6 256MB RAM .12:38
lodyworkandoid is flashed on it12:38
Stskeepslodywork: if you can boot a 2.6.32 kernel or later on it and your own file system you can possibly run something on it, but it won't be as pretty as the video above12:38
Stskeepsand require a lot of hacking12:39
lodyworki will study this harded12:39
lodyworkwhat is n9 specs????12:41
Stskeepslodywork: 1gig ram, 1ghz, single core omap36xx or something, i think12:42
lodyworki'll lean back now12:42
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Stskeepsfeel free to stay around and learn :)12:42
lodyworkthx12:43 is a good place to look around at12:43
lodyworkthats nic12:44
lodyworki will try to port slitaz on ARM12:45
Stskeepsprobably just easier to build on mer and some lightweight environment12:46
Stskeepswe have qtdesktop12:46
lodyworkthen i will make it work as a guest OS12:46
lodywork is for windows12:47
Stskeepson a n81012:48
lodyworkthis stil high end hw12:49
Stskeepsnot really12:49
Stskeepsarmv6, 400mhz, 128mb ram12:49
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Sagejbos: ok, Well I was mainly interested if someone could test the home:sage:telepathy that it works as it should and that we could move peregrine to the Nemo images12:52
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SageStskeeps: do we have ready made obs image available that user could just boot on VM and start using?13:25
Stskeepsphaeron has one, but frankly, you will want to follow lbt's guide instead13:26
Stskeepsinstall opensuse 11.4 minimal and go through that13:26
Sageyeah, well I was hoping download and use :D13:26
Stskeepsit often brings along worse problems13:26
* Sage ponders what vm software to use on his laptop for that13:27
Sagedo we have guide how to setup it properly?13:28
Stskeepsdefine properly13:28
lbtset what up properly?13:28
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Sagewell, setup by step with opensuse 11.4 image from 0 to running system. Is there some easy to use gui for kvm usage?13:29
Stskeepsi have virt-manager on my setup at least, it's pretty good13:29
Sagealso if I need to compile just lets say 10 small packages how much diskspace I need for the whole thing 10G enough? 160G HDD13:30
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Stskeepsyou'll need fakeobs so 1.3gb for sources, ~500 mb for each architecture13:32
SageI was planing to hook up to cobs13:33
Stskeepswasn't sure if you wanted total offline operation :)13:33
SageI really don't have enough space to fakeobs on my laptop :)13:33
SageSSD drives aren't so big :/13:33
rdesfois it possible to get mer on an lg optimus v?13:33
Stskeepsrdesfo: it's a tegra2?13:33
rdesfonot sure.... how do I check?13:34
Stskeepsrdesfo: generally: if you assume you'll be able to make phonecalls with mer on a android device, you're usually wrong. if you're OK with that, if you can boot your own linux kernel (larger than 2.6.32) and root file system, you can probably run mer13:35
Sagelbt: btw, your guide doesn't say if it is recommended or even mandatory to use 64-bit system13:35
lbtSage: it's not mandatory but probably recommended13:36
rdesfo Stskeeps, thanks13:37
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Sagewhat I need to do to get access to my KVM VM that is behind the NAT interface? There is default firewall in opensuse or do I need to change the interface out from NAT? I can ping it but nothing else.14:13
Stskeepsyou can make a virtual network i think14:14
Stskeepsat least it showed up on my ifconfig14:14
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Sageyes, there if virbr0 and my host has .1 ip and the VM .4514:15
swerdenstskeeps: can you send me you skype name?14:15
swerdenlbt: Can you please send me your skype name?14:16
Stskeepsswerden: carsten.v.munk14:16
Stskeepsit's in the email :)14:16
Sageah, firewall needs configs.14:16
StskeepsSage: just disable the firewall, it's only a bother14:16
Stskeepsswerden: and lbt_on_skype14:17
* Sage searches how14:17
StskeepsSage: yast14:17
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lbtswerden: hey .... I'm afraid I have to go out14:19
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swerdenlbt: ok, so it was may fault. When do you like have this call. Later? 18:00?14:20
lbtswerden: sure I'll be back in about 1.5 - 2hrs14:21
lbtHave to take my wife to physio :)14:21
Stskeepslet's say 18 MET then?14:21
Stskeeps(15:21 MET atm)14:22
lbtthat works for me14:22
Stskeepsswerden: that OK with you too?14:22
swerden18:00 is perfect14:22
lbtthanks... bbiab14:22
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SageStskeeps, lbt: normal ?14:24
StskeepsSage: yes, edit /etc/init.d/mysql and make it say 3-5, not 2-514:25
Stskeepsthink it's a bug in their mysql package14:26
* Sage adds not to wiki page14:27
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SageERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)14:32
Stskeepsmysql -u root ?14:32
SageERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)14:33
Stskeepsran /usr/bin/mysql_secure_installation first ?14:33
* Sage removes capslock from his keyboard14:33
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Sageok, something isn't right.14:39
Sageafter the guide getting Access forbidden! from :8214:39
Sageapi responds14:40
Sageand webui gives: Application error - Change this error message for exceptions thrown outside of an action (like in Dispatcher setups or broken Ruby code) in public/500.html14:41
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Stskeepshow about https://localhost:444 ?14:45
Sagethat is the api that works14:54
Stskeepsok, verify that webui points at the right api then14:54
Stskeepsin settings14:54
Sagebut with links on localhost I get same problems14:54
Sageyes, it is set to point https://localhost:444/ in /srv/www/obs/webui/config/environments/production.rb14:55
Stskeepscheck the web logs, may be a clue there14:56
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Sage[02/Dec/2011:16:57:02 +0200] TLSv1 DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA "GET / HTTP/1.1" 310 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0"14:57
Sageonly line that comes to /var/log/apache2/*14:57
Sagewhen trying to access that if that was what you meant14:57
Stskeepsi'd assume it'd put the application error somewhere14:58
Stskeepswhere did you get that patch from? :P15:00
Sagehah, you noticed :D15:00
Stskeepsi -do- review things15:00
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Sagea bit of google helped with that15:01
Sagemade it by myself in the end though15:02
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SageStskeeps: parts of this
Stskeepswhat kind of compile error did that cause?15:06
Sagewell, we don't compile anything outside that dir so linkin didn't go well15:07
Sagesee %build from .spec15:08
Stskeepsyeah okay, makes sense15:09
SageStskeeps: also see the comments above License in .spec15:09
Sagerest of that is GPLv3+15:09
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Sageok, time to continue next week.15:18
Stskeepshave a good weekend15:20
Sageyou too. cya15:20
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swerdenStskeeps: skype?17:05
swerdenlbt: skype17:05
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lbtswerden: yes - Stskeeps can't make it right now17:05
lbtwe can carry on though17:06
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foobar1 Stskeeps:17:15
foobar1hi divid ...17:15
foobar1rayman is her17:15
lbtsorry - I hate skype17:15
foobar1no  problem ;)17:15
foobar1i send the net overview via mail ... ok17:16
foobar1i have read this yesterday17:20
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lbtskype sucks17:30
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swerdenlbt: we are done. So have a nice weekend17:33
lbt:)  .... will do17:33
foobar1lbt: ok, have a nice weekend ...17:33
foobar1lbt: you have mail ;)17:33
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foobar1lbt: google talk works better as skype ;)17:45
lbtit can't be any worse than that call !17:46
lbtI think it may have been because it was a conf-call17:46
lbtit's usually OK-ish  when it is  1-to-117:46
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lbtit's a shame - I was hoping to talk to you both in a bit more detail17:47
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foobar1lbt: we are creating that surely17:57
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lbtgood point ... can't we use SIP ?17:58
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foobar1lbt: we need to see what has stefan ;)17:59
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foobar1lbt: ok ... i need your ssh-pub-key ... you have post, with my gpg-key ;D18:01
lbtI sent it already18:01
lbtand I have your gpg too18:01
lbtfoobar1:  nb ... this is the policy I put together for meego :
lbtcomments welcome - I plan on using that for mer too18:03
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wmaroneStskeeps: is there a bare-minimum .ks file that will build an armv7 (softfp or hardfp) image available? I tried using the N950 rootfs but it dies miserably, and I can't get vgrade's .ks to work.18:11
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matrixxgood evening18:18
matrixxI think many of us have applied for the raspberry pi18:19
matrixxhave you read this yet?
matrixxcould we have a Mer related effort group and one of us as a mentor?18:19
matrixxI would be delighted to try qtquick2 and opengles2 effort on top of Mer on RasPi18:20
matrixxbut not sure if I have time for this mentoring :/18:20
lbtI think that makes sense18:21
Stskeepswmarone: let me just cook you one up18:24
matrixxthere's at least 7 applicants who I either know to work on or have mentioned Mer in the project description18:25
matrixxthat was only with a quick glance, might be much more18:25
Stskeepsif you think it makes sense, then apply and set it up :)18:26
matrixxok, maybe I can have time for that effort, though the people I'm going to pick up there are much more experienced with Mer than me ;)18:27
Stskeepsi have a pi now so i'll push with some stuff at least18:28
matrixxnice :)18:28
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Stskeepsi've been meaning to start some work on making a oss wrapper so people can build in OBS against some of the broadcom libs without having them18:30
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Stskeepshmm, i wonder if /opt/vc will be the canonical path for the pi's gles18:44
matrixxoh right, we have a tutor application in now18:46
Stskeepscan write two of us already has pi's at least18:47
matrixxwill that make it more difficult to get those for rest of us ;)18:47
Stskeepsno idea, will show we're serious, too :P18:48
matrixxok, I'll add that :P18:48
lbtmatrixx: looks good18:48
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matrixxdone :)18:49
Stskeepsmatrixx: did you put your mer thingie anywhere btw?18:50
Stskeepsthe qml one18:50
matrixxStskeeps: it's in github18:50
matrixxI have to warn you that at the moment it shuts down only from command line18:51
matrixxno quit button or anything :D18:51
Stskeepsthat's okay18:51
matrixxI haven't had time to work on it in a while, my house building project just started18:51
matrixxthat means that there's no more than in the video I showed some time ago18:52
matrixxI have packages in OBS18:52
Stskeepsthat's fine, any contribution is welcome :)18:53
Stskeepswmarone: ..haven't forgotten you, just got sidetracked, moment18:53
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matrixxa sec and I'll give you a link to the mer packages18:53
matrixxStskeeps: pick here:
Stskeepswmarone: you just need a traditional SD card layout, FAT first, then ext3 (or 4?) and swap?18:54
matrixxnow, tell me which is your application number in the Pi device program page and I'll add it to the list18:57
matrixxif there's someone who hasn't mention Mer in his projects ;)18:57
Stskeepswmarone: i have a nook color too so if you want me to test anything i can do that18:59
Stskeepsi mostly use it for reading anyway and i'm a little pissed at the reader app18:59
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* Stskeeps tests if it works19:01
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Stskeepswmarone: mic-image-creator -f raw --save-kernel --arch=armv7l --record-pkgs=name --cache=~carsten/NOBACKUP/tablet-cache --outdir=~carsten/NOBACKUP/tablet-os --run-mode=1 --config=test.ks19:12
Stskeepswmarone: change --cache and --outdir to your own likings19:12
wmaroneI'll have to play with the image format19:14
* wmarone wishes the boot process wasn't such voodoo19:15
Stskeepsvoodoo on the nook color or in mer?19:16
wmaronenook color19:16
Stskeepsisn't it a standard omap format?19:17
wmaronethe x-loader/u-boot/kernel situation is flaky with newer versions of u-boot19:17
wmaronei.e. I can't build the x-loader, u-boot, and kernel that come from the B&N sources and get a boot19:17
Stskeepsand i assume you're aware of the crazy alignment stuff19:17
Stskeepsie, partition alignments19:17
wmaroneso I'm using an older u-boot and x-loader with the 2.6.32 kernel19:17
wmaroneyeah, I am using a shell script that generates a two-partition setup on my SD card19:18
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Stskeepsah, the normal omap script then :P19:24
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