| *** jvd_ has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| gotclue | just read the wiki. you guys have it wrong in so many ways, I don't know what to say other then FAIL! I predict you have the most shity community next to none at all. I won't even suggest to join a other/new project, because you have now future and only lower the quality. | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| *** rantom has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
| *** Guest52777 has quit IRC | 00:05 | |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: that's a constructive opinion | 00:06 |
| gotclue | i am pretty sure you are the kind of guys who can't get things done. | 00:06 |
| king_aoeu | but i do agree with you on some points | 00:06 |
| king_aoeu | i'm not part of this community, i'm just like you | 00:06 |
| *** buser has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| *** pdanek has left #mer | 00:07 | |
| king_aoeu | i'm interested in mobile computing and its success, and i don't think project like this do it right, but i may be wrong | 00:07 |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| king_aoeu | i haven't read the wiki yet, but your first intervention makes me want to | 00:07 |
| *** Milhouse has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: I might sound bad, but after reading the wiki I had a bad case of facepalming. | 00:07 |
| *** arcean_ is now known as arcean__ | 00:08 | |
| king_aoeu | i predict the same will happen to me | 00:08 |
| king_aoeu | but mer's community can't be worse than the tizen one | 00:08 |
| king_aoeu | have you heard about tizen? | 00:08 |
| gotclue | yeah, came from there. | 00:09 |
| king_aoeu | what's your opinion about them? | 00:09 |
| king_aoeu | do you think they should be more transparent? | 00:09 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | ouch...mer takes some punches tonight | 00:09 |
| king_aoeu | it's nothing personal guys | 00:09 |
| king_aoeu | when i think a project is doomed to fail, i feel bad for people contributing to it | 00:10 |
| king_aoeu | i don't hate anyone | 00:10 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: actually I think it is your personality, you're not happy with anything | 00:10 |
| king_aoeu | i don't know much about mer, so i can't comment yet | 00:10 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: you have a point, i'm not easily satisfied | 00:10 |
| king_aoeu | but i don't think it's necessary a bad thing | 00:11 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: not a good one opinion. at least they have industry support so they are a bit better of then this mer guys here. I won't like tizen, I think. | 00:11 |
| *** arc_mat|tp has quit IRC | 00:11 | |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: and the down side of that, for you, is probably that you won't do it yoursefl either | 00:11 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | The main people are at sleep now. They return in about 7 hours | 00:11 |
| *** jvd_ has joined #mer | 00:11 | |
| *** rantom has joined #mer | 00:12 | |
| *** mord has joined #mer | 00:12 | |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 the booze is doing the talking... | 00:12 | |
| king_aoeu | i don't think talking to them would change anything, since i'm not really interested in mer anyway (being just a core) | 00:12 |
| *** mord is now known as Guest43449 | 00:12 | |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: tizen has industry support, that's right, but the fact that they aren't transparent at all pisses me off | 00:12 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: what do you want, and who do you think will make it for you ? | 00:12 |
| king_aoeu | the main reason i'm here is to find people like me, that have a vision for mobile computing which is different from what we're used to soo | 00:13 |
| king_aoeu | grids of icons, widgets, i want to change that | 00:13 |
| gotclue | I know some nicks in this channel from openaos. they exactly the guys that begin stuff but can't get it done. | 00:13 |
| *** Milhouse has joined #mer | 00:13 | |
| berndhs | I don't take criticism seriously from people who do nothing themselves | 00:14 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | Well,the time has come my friends. Thi is it! | 00:14 |
| berndhs | all right, sleep well | 00:14 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: the idea and philosophy of a project is more important that the people it's composed of | 00:14 |
| king_aoeu | gn | 00:15 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i think you should consider their criticism | 00:15 |
| king_aoeu | but i can't force you to | 00:15 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: but the philosophy in this case is even worse. | 00:15 |
| king_aoeu | that's the problem | 00:16 |
| berndhs | i think mer is extremely promising | 00:16 |
| berndhs | very useful for people/companies who want to build something themselves | 00:16 |
| king_aoeu | if it's interesting to you, maybe | 00:17 |
| gotclue | berndhs: which companies? HOW does it look promising??? I don't get it. | 00:17 |
| king_aoeu | but personally, as an user, i don't care about that. in fact, it makes it even worse | 00:17 |
| *** eman has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| *** eman` has joined #mer | 00:17 | |
| berndhs | yes, I'm not looking for a ready made solution, I want to actually make something | 00:17 |
| berndhs | as a user, you can come and buy my product when I have it ready | 00:18 |
| berndhs | or as a contributor you can help me make it | 00:18 |
| king_aoeu | Building a core for companies to use leads to many companies making many different os. As an user, i don't want a variety of OS, I want to use an OS with a big userbase, so it gets developer support. Mer doesn't seem to solve this problem, it seems to make it worse. | 00:19 |
| gotclue | if you have a company why not employ some devs, make it and if its done, ask about opensource guys? hows that? | 00:19 |
| berndhs | why do you care what OS other end-users use? what difference does it make to you ? | 00:19 |
| king_aoeu | developer support | 00:19 |
| king_aoeu | for exemple, i'm a windows phone user | 00:20 |
| berndhs | I think you just like telling people what to do :) | 00:20 |
| king_aoeu | i want people to use windows phone, as the more people use it, the more app will be availaable for it | 00:20 |
| berndhs | you won't even know what other people use | 00:20 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 everyone is blinded by iStuff nowadays...opensorce will be the NEXT thing... | 00:20 | |
| berndhs | I don't want everyone to do the same thing, the boredom would make people unstable | 00:21 |
| king_aoeu | KaziKluBey_N900, open source won't succeed unless you agree on some standards | 00:21 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: what is more important, not being bored or having apps? | 00:21 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: what standards for example? | 00:21 |
| king_aoeu | the more os, the less app each of them will have | 00:21 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: tehre will be many apps, there already are | 00:21 |
| berndhs | nonsense | 00:21 |
| king_aoeu | you don't understand | 00:22 |
| berndhs | if there is only 1 OS, progress will stop fairly soon | 00:22 |
| berndhs | you will get your 2012 version, then then 2012 version in 2013, in 2015,.... | 00:22 |
| king_aoeu | it's like if you were saying that you don't care what language other talk in, as long as you talk the language you want to | 00:22 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | Sure,but in my world I can see that happening. People will realize that in a near future | 00:22 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: which works out pretty well, I think everyone on the planet speaking one language would be a loss | 00:22 |
| king_aoeu | Kazi: sure what? we need standards? | 00:22 |
| berndhs | I don't care what languages other people talk in while they are not talking to me | 00:23 |
| berndhs | of the 7 billion people, I talk to maybe a few thousand | 00:23 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: you still can't say what other people talk in isn't important, as you can't communicate with them. I don't agree that a language diversity is a great thing. | 00:23 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: but I can communicate with them, if need be | 00:24 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: that means you don't have access to so much content, since you can't read it | 00:24 |
| berndhs | I don't even speak the same language all day | 00:24 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: how? | 00:24 |
| berndhs | I can read 2 languages fluently like a native, and a few more at a simple level | 00:24 |
| wmarone_ | well, if I plan on interacting with people who don't speak my language, I can learn theirs | 00:25 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: and? | 00:25 |
| berndhs | I can read dozens of programming languages | 00:25 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king:I just had a vision earlier tonight when people realized that opensource is the way of doing things. And I hope it'll come true | 00:25 |
| berndhs | why should I want everyone to use one languages ? | 00:25 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: so? is it good in any way? let's learn languages just for the sake of it then... | 00:25 |
| * wmarone_ curses MS for this monoculture-worship that plagues computing | 00:25 | |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: that's what I did :D | 00:25 |
| king_aoeu | KaziKluBey_N900: there's no other way than open source. Any other way is foolish and retarded. You can't create value and not share it with others. | 00:26 |
| berndhs | people who are too dumb to do things in more than 1 way won't get any smarter if you limit the rest of the population | 00:26 |
| *** shanem has quit IRC | 00:27 | |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: why? you don't have to learn other languages if there are no other. It gives your more time to use the language, which is good. No? | 00:27 |
| wmarone_ | no | 00:27 |
| wmarone_ | because it starves people of diversity | 00:27 |
| wmarone_ | it constrains thought | 00:27 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: most languages aren't different enough from one another to justify the existence of this diversity. It's not like if there were 4 langugaes, each specialized in one field. I would agree with that. | 00:28 |
| wmarone_ | technical monocultures are as problematic as biological monocultures | 00:28 |
| berndhs | the reason there are so many borrowed words in most languages is that 1 language doesn't express everything equally well | 00:28 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i agree with that, but that doesn't justify the 1000 of languages. | 00:29 |
| berndhs | and who has to "justtify" the variety? is there someone who has to give permission ? | 00:29 |
| wmarone_ | exactly, there is no need to justify the existence or use of other languages | 00:29 |
| berndhs | why would I need permission from anybody to speak in some language ? | 00:29 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: if diversity is necessary for evolution, ok. But when we realize one thing is better than the other, we have to kill the "not so good" one, not try to keep it alive for the sake of "diversity" | 00:29 |
| berndhs | or why would I need permission from anyone to make a different UX ? | 00:29 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: because it's useless. if nothing justifies something, it's useless and thus, should not exist | 00:30 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: and thus languages that don't adapt often die off. explicitly exterminating languages or other ideas and modes of thinking for the sake of something ill defined is ridiculous | 00:30 |
| berndhs | no you're not answering, who is in a posiotion to judge and say I can't do it ? | 00:30 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i'm not saying you need permission, but you hurt a lot of people by making so. | 00:30 |
| berndhs | not why, the why is simple | 00:30 |
| berndhs | the why is because i want to | 00:31 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: your appeals to a non-existent authority are sad | 00:31 |
| berndhs | I dont hurt anybody, nobody has to use my products | 00:31 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king: Yes,but I'm thinking when people turn away from the closed environment in the iWorld and understands the benefits of openness. We agree there I' sure :) | 00:31 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: you hurt by not contributing | 00:31 |
| wmarone_ | who says he isn't contributing? | 00:32 |
| king_aoeu | Kazi: my comment was mostly an agreement, i just disagree about the way things are done in the opensource world. But i'm 100% for it in theory | 00:32 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 slightly drunk at the moment | 00:32 | |
| king_aoeu | i'll try to find an analogy | 00:32 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: I think you are trying to paste a closed source, Microsoft style environment on something that is fundamentally not that | 00:33 |
| king_aoeu | i never supported closed-sourceness | 00:33 |
| gotclue | contributing? to what? for the sake of it? this mer is seems to do all the bad things that meego already sucked in. | 00:33 |
| gotclue | stupid thing. | 00:34 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: no, but that seems to be the source of your ideas. You can't control or dictate what other people do when working with open source. | 00:34 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: wait, so now you're gonna start trolling or something? | 00:34 |
| king_aoeu | i could do an analogy with religion, but i don't want to affect some people | 00:34 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: suppose I pick one uniform way of doing things, and I can enforce it, would you be happy then ? | 00:35 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: but some people are ignorant and don't understand that by working selfishly on meaningless stuff, they aren't contributing to th ings that matter to others | 00:35 |
| gotclue | wmarone_: where am I wrong? | 00:35 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: it's up to you to back up your argument, not for me to disprove a wide swipe like that | 00:35 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | I think mer+nemo,or other UX feels fresh | 00:35 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: but you yourself are not contributing anything | 00:35 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: so I cannot work on what I want, but I must instead work on what others want? | 00:36 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i'm not talking about any sanction here. Just saying you should use your good judgment to realize that some stuff is not worth doing | 00:36 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: itis worth doing if I like it | 00:36 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: in a way, i'm contributing to the world by trying tomake you realize this | 00:36 |
| gotclue | wmarone_: but thats it! I don't know where to begin, so bad it is! | 00:36 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: then your argument is hollow and carries no weight | 00:36 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: do we agree there? | 00:36 |
| berndhs | who's permission do I need to do what I want in a way I want to ? | 00:36 |
| king_aoeu | let's say you live in a society | 00:37 |
| king_aoeu | and the yfeed you, teach you, etc | 00:37 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: no tell me who can give or deny permission ? not you | 00:37 |
| gotclue | King_aoeu: pretty much. you seem to have common sense. I miss this so much in the embedded world. | 00:37 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 bad mood rising | 00:37 | |
| king_aoeu | and then, when you're an adult, you decide to suicide, because you want to | 00:37 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: that's a stupid analogy | 00:38 |
| king_aoeu | maybe | 00:38 |
| wmarone_ | no, it is. try harder. | 00:38 |
| king_aoeu | but it has similar points | 00:38 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: then you should start to contribute to something, anything, in a positive way | 00:38 |
| king_aoeu | but why is it stupid? | 00:38 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: instead of just telling others they do it wrong | 00:38 |
| king_aoeu | why shouldn't the person suicide? | 00:38 |
| king_aoeu | because he can't help society after that? | 00:39 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: because someone who kills themself cannot contribute whatsoever. someone who lives can always contribute. | 00:39 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: and honestly, yes, why shouldn't they? If they really want to. | 00:39 |
| king_aoeu | what if everyone decide it's a good idea? | 00:39 |
| king_aoeu | should we stop them? | 00:39 |
| king_aoeu | we need them | 00:39 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: yet another stupid point | 00:39 |
| berndhs | if someone really wants to leave, you should let them go | 00:39 |
| king_aoeu | it's as stupid for you than your "but i want to do this" to me | 00:40 |
| berndhs | if you want someone to stay to work for you, that's selfish | 00:40 |
| king_aoeu | not work for me, work for society | 00:40 |
| king_aoeu | i'm talking about what open source really is | 00:40 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 abill,is that you? ;) | 00:40 | |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: here's the thing. you're trying to dictate what others can and cannot do | 00:40 |
| berndhs | I don't take anything away from other people by doing what I want on my computers | 00:40 |
| king_aoeu | you don't seem to understand the hconcept of open source berndhs | 00:40 |
| berndhs | yes I do | 00:40 |
| berndhs | i use open tools and make my work available | 00:40 |
| gotclue | berndhs: if someone wants to bang his head against a wall how to contribute there, other than tell him "Thats some reeeeaaally stupid idea, don't do it". | 00:41 |
| king_aoeu | what if a want to kill you? am i allowed? who can dictate if i cant or not? | 00:41 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: your argument is becoming increasingly stupid | 00:41 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: you would be hurting me and others who want me around | 00:41 |
| king_aoeu | so? you want to dictate what i cant and can't do? | 00:41 |
| king_aoeu | can* | 00:41 |
| lbt | do you guys realise how much troll-fed backlog you're generating :D | 00:41 |
| berndhs | no I dont care what you do | 00:41 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: no, see, this is why we have laws and not anarchy | 00:42 |
| *** sebsauer has joined #mer | 00:42 | |
| king_aoeu | you agree with laws, but not with common sense? | 00:42 |
| lbt | any chance you could take it to #meego-bar please | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | let's say i believe in the spaghetti monster | 00:42 |
| berndhs | not your sense :) | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | i spend 10 hours a day praying the spaghetti monster | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | he's my god | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | people follow me | 00:42 |
| lbt | berndhs: wmarone_ at least you should :) | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | they do the same | 00:42 |
| king_aoeu | you would not try to c onvince me i may be wrong? | 00:43 |
| king_aoeu | you would let me do this if i think it's what i want to? | 00:43 |
| wmarone_ | sure, have fun ;p | 00:43 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 yawns | 00:43 | |
| king_aoeu | honestly, you would not try to convince me it's a bad idea? | 00:43 |
| king_aoeu | you would let everyone do that | 00:43 |
| * wmarone_ hands king_aoeu some meatballs | 00:43 | |
| king_aoeu | your familiy, etc? | 00:43 |
| berndhs | anyway i have work to do to make the world more to my liking :) | 00:43 |
| king_aoeu | you surrender? | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | at this point? | 00:44 |
| wmarone_ | lol, surrender | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | i'm asking you a simple question | 00:44 |
| wmarone_ | you have won nothing | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | would you? yes or no | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | you're stubborn | 00:44 |
| berndhs | I go change the world, while you keep complaining | 00:44 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: seriously, read the wiki. there is no sense in discuss with this guys. they won't get it. | 00:44 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 OT,anyone? | 00:44 | |
| lbt | guys please ... this is OT | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: i think we agree there, but i feel bad for them | 00:44 |
| king_aoeu | ok, i'll stop right now | 00:45 |
| king_aoeu | i'm relieved that at least one person agrees with me | 00:45 |
| king_aoeu | otherwise i think suicide wouldn't be such a bad idea | 00:45 |
| gotclue | I am only still here, because I can't sleep yet. | 00:45 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king: had some scnapps tonight? | 00:45 |
| wmarone_ | trolls like trolls, obviously | 00:45 |
| king_aoeu | Kazi: nope, w hy? | 00:45 |
| *** afiestas_ has joined #mer | 00:45 | |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: someone that has common sense is a troll now? | 00:45 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king: or something else. you seem speeded | 00:46 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: can you describe me selfishness and tell me if you agree with it or not please? | 00:46 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: #meego-bar | 00:46 |
| king_aoeu | Kazi: i'm always like that | 00:46 |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 00:46 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king: ok.that explains it. let's not argue.join forces and make mer+nemo conquer | 00:49 |
| gotclue | King_aoeu: the way I see it, they only wan't to profit but are to incompetent to get things done themself. they might be able to write some lines of code but then their ego comes in and it sucks. | 00:51 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | what i have seen there are some really sharp minds running this show | 00:51 |
| king_aoeu | it's one-sided | 00:51 |
| gotclue | I bet, if I'd tell them to join debian or openemedded they'd bitch how much they hate it because it doesn't fit their incompetence. | 00:58 |
| *** arcean__ has quit IRC | 00:58 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | Yeah,yeah. We'll see,but I hope to see my n900 uitilize it's full potential | 01:03 |
| gotclue | like 100% cpu for UX. wow, that makes sense. | 01:04 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | nemo seems alright,plasma not there yet | 01:06 |
| gotclue | seriously. for n900 I rather look at SHR with enlightenment and its three devs. nemo and plasma both suck. | 01:08 |
| king_aoeu | can i see a nemo screenshot? | 01:08 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | seen the video on youtube? | 01:08 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: i don't know if you're a designer or ergonomist or anything, but look at this diaporama and try not to laugh http://plasma-active.org/ | 01:09 |
| king_aoeu | if you have no sense of design and bad taste, nevermind, you won't understand | 01:09 |
| king_aoeu | all i find is "finding nemo" stuff | 01:09 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | search: mer+nemo | 01:09 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | and dark...something | 01:09 |
| gotclue | I even tried plasma already. It is so bad... sooo baaaad. simply stupid. | 01:10 |
| gotclue | slow and buggy also | 01:10 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | gc: on n900? | 01:10 |
| gotclue | something similar. it's not usable. you must have been brain damaged, to like plasma. sorry, but thats the way I see it. | 01:12 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | http://youtube.com/watch?v=pCCxjO0CXjw | 01:12 |
| king_aoeu | mer means sea | 01:12 |
| king_aoeu | you want me to find french nemo video? | 01:12 |
| *** sebsauer_ has joined #mer | 01:12 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | there it is | 01:12 |
| king_aoeu | thx | 01:12 |
| *** sebsauer has quit IRC | 01:13 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | looks promising to me. it's wip as we all know | 01:14 |
| gotclue | lool | 01:15 |
| king_aoeu | from what i see, nemo is miles ahead of plasma | 01:16 |
| gotclue | here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKn4VyEFUQs I don't like the enlightment people, but at least they are competent in their stuff. | 01:16 |
| king_aoeu | i don't like how rounded the icons are (nor the icon concept) | 01:16 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue: sorry, i don't like it | 01:17 |
| gotclue | nemo is broken, like meego ux was. it won't work on other devices then n900 and even there it is slow as hell, bug ridden and mostly unsable. | 01:18 |
| gotclue | belive me, it's bad. | 01:18 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 01:20 | |
| king_aoeu | don't tell me the os in the video you sent me is good and usable | 01:20 |
| king_aoeu | it's a desktop os in a phone, come on | 01:20 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | me? | 01:21 |
| gotclue | me? | 01:21 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | hehe | 01:21 |
| king_aoeu | gotclue | 01:21 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | it seemed fast. but i guess i had better hatdware? | 01:22 |
| gotclue | maybe it doesn't depend on 3d-hardware? | 01:23 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | meaning? | 01:24 |
| gotclue | I am saying to depend on 3d-hardware only to draw a button, is a failure right at the beginning. | 01:25 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | ok,i don't know that stuff. i'm just a basic user | 01:26 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: how so, especially when the target hardware includes it across the board? | 01:28 |
| gotclue | try SHR. there is a image for you to test I am sure. you will likely run into some problems with audio and stuff, but the next stable release will be nice. | 01:29 |
| gotclue | wmarone_: simple, get stuff working in 2d fast and realiable. 3d accerlation could still be useful as a option, to depend on it before just won't do it, there just isn't much support for it in the linux world. | 01:32 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | gotclue: i've seen that earlier. do they make a bootable image with sd-card and u-boot? | 01:32 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | as i do now with nemo | 01:33 |
| king_aoeu | why don't you people use Windows Phone? | 01:33 |
| gotclue | can't say. please look at their website for instructions. http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Devices/NokiaN900 | 01:34 |
| wmarone_ | because I want something I have control over, as a result I am still on my N900 | 01:34 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | ssscchhhh! | 01:34 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | shr seem to have stalled. i read about it earlier but havent heard any recent stuff about it | 01:36 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | The N900 sure is a uggly duckling | 01:37 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | or a late bloomer | 01:37 |
| gotclue | take a look at they source, they are still active. not much people but they are busy. they migrate to new openembedded-core, so its much under the hood work. | 01:37 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | they should anounce their activity on talk.maemo.org aswell | 01:38 |
| gotclue | nah, meamo/meego/mer they don't get important stuff. they want slow and buggy UX they could sell to... I don't know who. | 01:40 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | wmarone_: do you think nemo could perform better than maemo in the longrun? | 01:41 |
| wmarone_ | probably | 01:41 |
| gotclue | based on what? | 01:41 |
| wmarone_ | he asked relative to maemo | 01:42 |
| wmarone_ | nemo already runs on more hardware | 01:42 |
| gotclue | ok, nemo runs on more hardware then maemo. thats something I can agree with, and I am nice enough to not ask on how much more hardware. | 01:45 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | well it's been a bumpy ride with maemo however the mer+nemo-route seem rather steady. With limited resources though | 01:45 |
| gotclue | or the level of "runs". | 01:45 |
| king_aoeu | didn't nokia make nemo? | 01:46 |
| wmarone_ | no | 01:46 |
| king_aoeu | but it's the same as meego | 01:46 |
| king_aoeu | meego is better than nemo then | 01:47 |
| king_aoeu | why did they make it shittier? | 01:47 |
| king_aoeu | meego wasn't bad | 01:47 |
| king_aoeu | the n9 seems like a pretty slick device | 01:47 |
| king_aoeu | it's just like the Nokia Lumia 800 (i may get it) | 01:47 |
| wmarone_ | the n9 doesn't run meego | 01:47 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | short story,politics | 01:48 |
| king_aoeu | no? | 01:48 |
| king_aoeu | but nokia annonced the n9 with meego... | 01:48 |
| king_aoeu | with the swiping and stuff | 01:48 |
| wmarone_ | it's "meego harmattan" | 01:48 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | i just repeat what i heard on the forum | 01:48 |
| wmarone_ | it has more in common with Maemo | 01:48 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | i hope that nemo and meego harmattan will play together soon. | 01:50 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | appwise | 01:50 |
| wmarone_ | it should be possible, at least for Qt applications | 01:50 |
| gotclue | debian with nokia flavor, meego app compatibility and properitay UX that only nokia has sources for. | 01:51 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | it feels like we N900 owners are left behind. but that was also the case with the older nits,as it seems | 01:52 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | but nemo seems a lot more promising then maemo and cssu | 01:53 |
| berndhs | making an app that works equally well on harmattan and nemo is not hard at all | 01:54 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | let's make it happen :) | 01:55 |
| gotclue | lol? | 01:55 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | come on,cheer up! | 01:56 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | :) | 01:56 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | :( | 01:56 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | nightime OT on #mer is ok,right? | 01:57 |
| *** KaziKluBey has joined #mer | 01:57 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | huh,i'm logging in | 01:57 |
| berndhs | losing track of your multiple personalities ? | 01:58 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | my stationery started by itself.. | 02:00 |
| gotclue | ok. someday the arm devices are fast and powerfull enough to run at usable speed, just not n900. (ignoring everything else the speaks against nemo and co) | 02:00 |
| king_aoeu | a powerful device is not required | 02:00 |
| king_aoeu | take exemple of wp7 | 02:00 |
| king_aoeu | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_jwdaEKwcs&feature=related | 02:00 |
| king_aoeu | (hater's gonna hate) | 02:00 |
| gotclue | i know wp7. | 02:00 |
| king_aoeu | do you like it? | 02:01 |
| gotclue | i meant nemo for powerfull devices, forgot a word. | 02:01 |
| berndhs | powerful devices are comming, the chip manufacturers don't knwo wha to do with the real restate | 02:02 |
| king_aoeu | wp7 is just an exemple of a mobile os that doesn't need lots of power too run super smoothly | 02:02 |
| berndhs | "need" has nothing to do with this industry, nobody needs any of this | 02:02 |
| king_aoeu | well, android needs a powerful device to run smoothly | 02:03 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | i wonder if wp7 will be as hackable as a desktop os. if so it'll be pretty intersting | 02:03 |
| berndhs | nobody needs a smart phone | 02:03 |
| wmarone_ | android has architectural problems that inhibit it from running smoothly | 02:03 |
| gotclue | like maemo, mer and meego | 02:03 |
| wmarone_ | KaziKluBey_N900: they're throwing people a bone with ChevronWP7, but I doubt they will allow it to get any moreso | 02:03 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: matter of optimization, everyone says the N9 is as smooth as can be as well | 02:04 |
| king_aoeu | chevronWP7 is nice | 02:04 |
| berndhs | n950 is pretty smooth | 02:05 |
| king_aoeu | oh, here's my question: | 02:05 |
| king_aoeu | why don't you contribute to Android? | 02:05 |
| king_aoeu | (or fork it, or idk) | 02:05 |
| king_aoeu | what's wrong with android? | 02:05 |
| wmarone_ | 02:05 | |
| king_aoeu | what does that mean? | 02:05 |
| wmarone_ | android is nothing without google | 02:06 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | i think i the line of xp,win7 etc that you can fin for "free" online . | 02:06 |
| *** KaziKluBey has quit IRC | 02:06 | |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | hm,my desktop starts and goes offline in 10 mins | 02:07 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: do you think that mer is better than android without google? | 02:08 |
| wmarone_ | mer at least shares a common base with the rest of the Linux/FOSS world | 02:09 |
| king_aoeu | i think android is crap, and it's not less crappy without google | 02:09 |
| wmarone_ | android, outside a few bits and pieces, is entirely insular and top down | 02:09 |
| king_aoeu | Android doesn't? | 02:09 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: and what's the issue with it? | 02:09 |
| wmarone_ | dalvik, bionic, the rendering subsystem, etc. all exist nowhere but android | 02:09 |
| king_aoeu | what if it doesn't share any root with linux? | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | does it make it bad? | 02:10 |
| wmarone_ | bad? no | 02:10 |
| wmarone_ | kill my interest? yes | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | what? | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | there's something i don't understand right here | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | you have an open mobile os | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | that you can use and customize as you want | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | free | 02:10 |
| king_aoeu | and you don't use it, just because it's not linuxy enough? | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | you start a whole new os, just for thta? | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | there must be something else | 02:11 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: governance. Android goes where google wants it to | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | i can't believe it's just it | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | can't you fork google? | 02:11 |
| wmarone_ | nope | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | and start from there? | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | why? | 02:11 |
| king_aoeu | isn't open source? | 02:12 |
| berndhs | fork google ? | 02:12 |
| wmarone_ | oh I could try and maintain a divergent fork | 02:12 |
| wmarone_ | but ultimately I would not be able to keep pace with google's forward progress | 02:12 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: that is the fork of android http://replicant.us/ | 02:13 |
| *** sebsauer__ has joined #mer | 02:13 | |
| king_aoeu | doesn't replicant.us kill the purpose of mer? | 02:14 |
| *** sebsauer_ has quit IRC | 02:15 | |
| wmarone_ | no, because it's only part of the equation | 02:16 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: mer doesn't have a real purpose, but I understand that java/dalvik (non c/c++) is somewhat more appeling. | 02:16 |
| wmarone_ | that and replicant.us will go where google leads | 02:16 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: if you hate mer so much, I am curious as to why you are here | 02:17 |
| gotclue | lack of sleep | 02:17 |
| berndhs | well, on nemo I can ssh into all my sites with ipv6, I android I can't, nevermind wp7 | 02:17 |
| Jucato | "mer doesn't have a real purpose" huh what? | 02:17 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: replicant.us doesn't "have" to go in the same direction has google... | 02:18 |
| king_aoeu | Jucato: what's the purpose of mer? | 02:18 |
| wmarone_ | no, but if they don't then they'll break compatibility and have to assume more and more development work themselves | 02:18 |
| king_aoeu | and is mer in a better position? | 02:19 |
| Jucato | http://www.merproject.org/ | 02:19 |
| wmarone_ | mer is not dependent on a single vendor | 02:19 |
| king_aoeu | Jucato: i read it | 02:19 |
| wmarone_ | no one company owns the upstream | 02:19 |
| king_aoeu | replicant.us is not either | 02:19 |
| wmarone_ | it is, it depends on google | 02:19 |
| king_aoeu | they can do whatever than want from there | 02:19 |
| king_aoeu | how do they depend on google? | 02:19 |
| wmarone_ | simple, if google changes dalvik they must adopt the changes | 02:20 |
| wmarone_ | same for bionic | 02:20 |
| king_aoeu | so you rely on linux | 02:20 |
| Jucato | their aim is just to replace the proprietary parts with free software, but they will still be working on Google's Android codebase | 02:20 |
| gotclue | of reverse bionic/ dalvik | 02:20 |
| king_aoeu | instead of google, right? | 02:21 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: linux is not owned by any one vendor | 02:21 |
| king_aoeu | google is not a vendor | 02:21 |
| wmarone_ | yes they are | 02:21 |
| king_aoeu | ok, they are | 02:21 |
| wmarone_ | I cannot contribute to Android or influence its direction unless I am a member of the OHA | 02:21 |
| wmarone_ | I can effect the linux kernel, individually if I choose to try | 02:22 |
| king_aoeu | if linux changes, mer changes too, right? | 02:22 |
| king_aoeu | you use the linux kernel, or something else? | 02:22 |
| king_aoeu | do you use your own version of it? | 02:22 |
| Jucato | there's a big difference | 02:22 |
| king_aoeu | which one? | 02:22 |
| Jucato | linux kernel development is open, android isn't | 02:22 |
| Jucato | android is "open source" in the most minimal requirement of "open source", but not its development | 02:23 |
| king_aoeu | no, but i mean technically | 02:23 |
| Jucato | it's what is called a "code dump" | 02:23 |
| king_aoeu | you will be able to update mer to linux 3.1? | 02:23 |
| berndhs | linux kernels are condigured for more or less specific target machines | 02:23 |
| berndhs | more specific for phones, less specific for desktops | 02:23 |
| *** wicket64 has quit IRC | 02:23 | |
| king_aoeu | so you had to make your own kernel | 02:23 |
| king_aoeu | custom | 02:23 |
| Jucato | ... | 02:23 |
| king_aoeu | no? | 02:23 |
| berndhs | so the "linux" you run on an n900 is not the same "linux" you run on a supercomputer | 02:24 |
| gotclue | they want to say, they can't use newer kernel because they can't port the driver. | 02:24 |
| berndhs | read up a little on how to build a linux kernel, just look at what you can configure | 02:24 |
| Jucato | the linux you run on one distro is not exactly 100% the same linux you use on another distro | 02:24 |
| Jucato | they might have distinct configurations/modules/patches | 02:24 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: that's a plague that affects pretty much all hardware running linux today :/ | 02:25 |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 02:25 | |
| berndhs | you don't _want_ the same kernel on a single core 32 bit phone and a 2048 core supercomputer | 02:25 |
| king_aoeu | i'm just asking if it would be simpler to take dalvik, use it, and when google change direction (and you don't want to), you just use the last good version of dalvik and update it as you want | 02:25 |
| king_aoeu | you would have something functional | 02:26 |
| *** antoniojasr has joined #mer | 02:26 | |
| king_aoeu | already | 02:26 |
| king_aoeu | in fact, mer and android are pretty much the same thing | 02:26 |
| king_aoeu | manufacturers can just get android ,customize it and that's it | 02:27 |
| berndhs | not on a new device where android hasnt run before | 02:27 |
| Jucato | ... | 02:27 |
| king_aoeu | i don't see how it's simpler to start from scratch (mer) than start from android | 02:27 |
| gotclue | mer not on a device that has run android before ;-) | 02:27 |
| *** otep_ is now known as otep | 02:27 | |
| king_aoeu | so now you want an os that doesn't run on android devices? | 02:28 |
| king_aoeu | nice | 02:28 |
| king_aoeu | so an os that doesn't exist and has no device for it | 02:28 |
| Jucato | (mer isn't even a start from scratch) | 02:28 |
| king_aoeu | good idea | 02:28 |
| Jucato | ? | 02:28 |
| king_aoeu | more from scratch than android | 02:28 |
| berndhs | you don't follow what i'm writing, so nevermind | 02:28 |
| Jucato | not really | 02:28 |
| wmarone_ | errr | 02:28 |
| wmarone_ | no, android is seriously from scratch | 02:28 |
| king_aoeu | i follow it... | 02:28 |
| berndhs | no, you misunderstand parts of it | 02:29 |
| king_aoeu | your goal here is what? | 02:29 |
| wmarone_ | with a few "Linux" trappings to make it appealing to hardware OEMs | 02:29 |
| king_aoeu | you need a mobile os? | 02:29 |
| Jucato | depends on what you consider an "os" | 02:29 |
| king_aoeu | you build mer so other can build os using it, right? | 02:29 |
| berndhs | from mer, I want an OS base without a specific UX | 02:29 |
| Jucato | if you consider a full blown stack like Android an OS, complete with UX, policies, etc., the no, mer is not for a "mobile os" | 02:30 |
| berndhs | an OS base that lets me change the UX | 02:30 |
| Jucato | mer is a *core* on which someone would build a "mobile os" | 02:30 |
| berndhs | so I don't want android or harmattan, certainly not wp7 | 02:30 |
| king_aoeu | why would someone want to take mer, and build an os with it? | 02:30 |
| berndhs | because that was mer is for | 02:30 |
| king_aoeu | no, who want to do that? | 02:31 |
| berndhs | it is a basis to make your own | 02:31 |
| berndhs | who ? independent manufacturers | 02:31 |
| king_aoeu | yes, but why would i make my own? | 02:31 |
| berndhs | companies who want to be independent of google or microsoft | 02:31 |
| king_aoeu | why would they want that? | 02:31 |
| berndhs | to make money the way they see fit | 02:32 |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #mer | 02:32 | |
| Jucato | open source projects who want to have the flexibility of creating their own UX instead of reusing something like Android or Harmattan | 02:32 |
| king_aoeu | as a manufacturer, i don't see why i should build my own os, when i can just use Android | 02:32 |
| Jucato | you're a manufacturer? | 02:32 |
| king_aoeu | no | 02:32 |
| berndhs | different manufacturers run their businesses differently | 02:32 |
| Jucato | then how do you know what a manufacturer would think? | 02:32 |
| king_aoeu | are you a manufacturer? | 02:32 |
| berndhs | some prefer to align themselves with google, some with microsoft, some prefer different ways | 02:33 |
| Jucato | no. and I never presumed I would know. and I never answered anything from the POV of a manufacturer. | 02:33 |
| king_aoeu | but if people of mer think it's good for manufacturer, what make them think so? | 02:33 |
| berndhs | and lets not forget that this is a very big market, several billion end users | 02:34 |
| king_aoeu | how often do people want to create their own os? | 02:34 |
| gotclue | why would I develop for mer if only some freaky manufactor benefits from it? | 02:34 |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: done right, you aren't limited to mer | 02:35 |
| king_aoeu | also, why do you exist, there's tizen | 02:35 |
| berndhs | gotclue: you personally don't want to develop for mer i'm fairly sure | 02:35 |
| berndhs | gotclue: but then you probably don't want to develop for anyone :) | 02:35 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: mer will eventually base itself off Tizen, is the plan as I understand it | 02:35 |
| king_aoeu | you mean merge it? | 02:35 |
| king_aoeu | i don't see why both should exist | 02:36 |
| king_aoeu | why they use you? | 02:36 |
| king_aoeu | is tizen ui dependant? | 02:36 |
| wmarone_ | there's a better explanation of the plan out there, I don't recall at the moment | 02:36 |
| wmarone_ | sadly, we don't know much about tizen atm | 02:36 |
| wmarone_ | so things can still change | 02:36 |
| Jucato | (just because you don't see why both should exist doesn't mean they should not exist. fortunately) | 02:36 |
| Jucato | (fortunately mer is an open source project that is free to steer its own ship) | 02:37 |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 02:37 | |
| king_aoeu | people that contribute to Mer everyday | 02:38 |
| king_aoeu | why do they do that | 02:38 |
| king_aoeu | that motivates them? | 02:38 |
| king_aoeu | what company would develop application for Mer | 02:38 |
| king_aoeu | what user would want a Mer device? | 02:38 |
| gotclue | because forking tizen is to much work. you depend on some vendor that make up-down decisions. thats only opensource at a bare minimum... lol | 02:38 |
| wmarone_ | as was said before, we know nothing about how Tizen will be governed | 02:39 |
| gotclue | yeah, just tought it was funny while looking at the comments about replicant.us. | 02:40 |
| king_aoeu | I'm a company that offer a service | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | people use my service | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | i made an android and an iOS app | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | why would i make a Mer app | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | there's no reason for it | 02:41 |
| berndhs | sure there is | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | so people using Mer won't have any official app | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | and they will be sad | 02:41 |
| Jucato | you dont' even make a mer app | 02:41 |
| king_aoeu | you make a what app? | 02:42 |
| Jucato | argh why am I even replying | 02:42 |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 02:42 | |
| king_aoeu | you make an app for the os that uses Mer? it's even worse | 02:42 |
| berndhs | why ? | 02:42 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | come on you nerds,give it some time. haven't you learned that since the maemoera | 02:42 |
| king_aoeu | why what? | 02:42 |
| berndhs | whats bad about it, as long as you make money on the deal, assuming you are commercial | 02:43 |
| king_aoeu | omg | 02:43 |
| Jucato | (you don't make an app for the linux kernel) | 02:43 |
| king_aoeu | there won't be a facebook app on Mer (or the os made with it) ? | 02:43 |
| berndhs | sure there will be, someone will make it | 02:44 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | kavopus is ther already | 02:44 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | kasvopus | 02:44 |
| king_aoeu | some services don't have an api | 02:44 |
| berndhs | and there will be google+ apps and twitter apps and the rest | 02:44 |
| king_aoeu | some services require the manufacturer to do the app | 02:45 |
| king_aoeu | no | 02:45 |
| berndhs | sure | 02:45 |
| *** akira_tsukamoto has joined #mer | 02:45 | |
| king_aoeu | you can't make a complete facebook app, it wont have all the features of the real one | 02:45 |
| berndhs | google+ has an api, haven't looked at it, but its there | 02:45 |
| king_aoeu | i'm making Google+ for WP7 | 02:45 |
| king_aoeu | and the api is very limited | 02:45 |
| berndhs | ok let us know how it turns out | 02:46 |
| king_aoeu | you won't have the functionalities of the real app | 02:46 |
| berndhs | then you're probably doing it wrong :) | 02:46 |
| wmarone_ | "apps" in place of functional mobile websites is broken anyway | 02:46 |
| king_aoeu | it's in standby right now, the api is too limited and i reached the limit | 02:46 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: you're talking hypothetical, right? | 02:46 |
| king_aoeu | wmarone_: why don't you work on fixing it then? | 02:47 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: well, mer is hypothetical, so yes | 02:47 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: because I don't manage the websites in question | 02:47 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: no your google+ app is the hypothecal case | 02:47 |
| king_aoeu | but if it ever works out, you will need a facebook app, and it wont have the same features as the real ones, what will you do then? | 02:47 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i'm actually building a google+ app for WP7 | 02:48 |
| king_aoeu | you want screenshots? | 02:48 |
| berndhs | i thought you were not much of a coder | 02:48 |
| king_aoeu | i'm a programmer | 02:48 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 02:48 | |
| berndhs | ah | 02:48 |
| berndhs | well, if the API for wp7 is not good, one more reason to avoid wp7 :) | 02:49 |
| gotclue | and I.... I don't even have a smartphone. howzdat? | 02:49 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | king: you know qt and stuff? | 02:49 |
| king_aoeu | it's the Google+ api which isn't good | 02:50 |
| king_aoeu | not the WP7 api | 02:50 |
| berndhs | what's missing? I havent looked at it | 02:50 |
| king_aoeu | i don't know qt and stuff | 02:50 |
| gotclue | isn't google+ still beta? | 02:50 |
| berndhs | all of googles things are beta | 02:50 |
| king_aoeu | i know python, php, silverlight/c#/xaml/wpf/asp.net, haskel, etc...l | 02:50 |
| king_aoeu | it's beta yes | 02:51 |
| king_aoeu | but its not the point | 02:51 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | you should look into it. | 02:51 |
| king_aoeu | the point is that many company have no api and have to make the app, a third party just can't | 02:51 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: which is a problem with the companies, not the platform | 02:51 |
| king_aoeu | if they don't make app for mer, what will you do? | 02:51 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | and port that g+ app to nemo :) | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | ok, but we don't live in a perfect world | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | i won't port it on nemo, sorry | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | mobile dev is so hard | 02:52 |
| berndhs | you should look at Qt, it will work fine on wp7 too | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | porting is a pain | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | lol no | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | qt doesn't work on wp7 u fool | 02:52 |
| berndhs | yes it will | 02:52 |
| king_aoeu | no it wont | 02:52 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | listen to berndhs,he's good with words | 02:53 |
| berndhs | who will stop them ? | 02:53 |
| king_aoeu | stop who? | 02:53 |
| king_aoeu | why would they do it? | 02:53 |
| berndhs | the folks who want to make qt work on wp7 | 02:53 |
| king_aoeu | they already have silverlight, and WinRT | 02:53 |
| berndhs | qt works on the rest of the windows platforms | 02:53 |
| king_aoeu | good luck with that, and why would anyone be retarded enough to want to use qt on windows phone 7? | 02:53 |
| king_aoeu | wp7 is not like the rest of windows... | 02:54 |
| gotclue | king_aoeu: make it a webapp. connect it a server you set up, that connects to google+. make a shitload of money. | 02:54 |
| king_aoeu | we're no longer in the windows mobile ero | 02:54 |
| king_aoeu | era* | 02:54 |
| berndhs | because they already have applications working on other platforms on qt | 02:54 |
| king_aoeu | google+ has a webapp already... | 02:54 |
| berndhs | sure thats another way, you will have webapps on mer-based systems too | 02:54 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: people who port apps that way are retarded and don't know anything about UX/UI | 02:55 |
| berndhs | many ways to do things | 02:55 |
| gotclue | yeah, but connecting to your server means service you can get money for. | 02:55 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 sssccchhh...i'm trying to get some sleep | 02:55 | |
| king_aoeu | i would literally punch anyone i meet who try to port a qt app to wp7, that would be aweful | 02:55 |
| king_aoeu | nobody would use it either | 02:55 |
| berndhs | end users don't know what an app is written in, and they don't care | 02:55 |
| king_aoeu | yes but qt is for ui | 02:56 |
| king_aoeu | and they'll realize it's qt | 02:56 |
| berndhs | end users want to post their pics, watch their movies, chat with their friends | 02:56 |
| king_aoeu | they won't be able on mer | 02:56 |
| berndhs | you're not very informed about qt I think | 02:56 |
| king_aoeu | ? | 02:56 |
| king_aoeu | ok, try to make a panorama app is qt | 02:56 |
| king_aoeu | go | 02:57 |
| king_aoeu | i challenge you | 02:57 |
| berndhs | or maybe you swallowed the microsoft spin as the complete truth | 02:57 |
| king_aoeu | what do you mean? | 02:57 |
| gotclue | also qt stuff on wp7 only takes extra ram and flash, the users won't like that. | 02:57 |
| berndhs | I mean that microsoft, like most companies, tells you things that are not entirely true | 02:58 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 ouch,a new herd is forming.. | 02:58 | |
| berndhs | for marketing purposes | 02:58 |
| king_aoeu | since you're not a designer, maybe it's not important to you to have apps that integrate with the rest of the ui | 03:00 |
| king_aoeu | but it's very important | 03:00 |
| king_aoeu | qt would'nt make that possible | 03:00 |
| berndhs | well I'm making my own UX, so I don't give a rat's ass about wp7 integration :) | 03:00 |
| king_aoeu | you must use wp7 ux | 03:01 |
| berndhs | unless of course MS wants to fund my efforts, then we can talk | 03:01 |
| king_aoeu | also, qt to wp7 is in theory possilbe | 03:01 |
| berndhs | me personally, no I don't ahve to use any wp7 | 03:01 |
| berndhs | dont' need it, don't want to use those devices | 03:02 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | this is the thing im talking about. people get obsessed with brands.iP,wp lures people int their realm. | 03:02 |
| gotclue | OMG wp7 eats peaopl | 03:02 |
| king_aoeu | you have no sense of design | 03:02 |
| berndhs | wp7 devices have the same direction and purpose as most others, so they are not appropriate for my purpose | 03:03 |
| berndhs | has nothing to do with sense of design | 03:03 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: your story changes too often in the same day :) | 03:03 |
| gotclue | why don't you guys just use fluxbox? lol | 03:04 |
| king_aoeu | look, unless we find a way to make app work on any os (no more native app), we will continue to make native app. This mean that the more mobile os there are, the more painful it will be to build/port all these apps to all those platforms. Since apps are what make a phone useful, the more mobile os, the less happy customers are | 03:04 |
| king_aoeu | we should try to converge mobile os, so there are the less of them possible (1 would be nice), and that's it | 03:05 |
| berndhs | there are billions of end users | 03:05 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: I see you would be happy as a dictator | 03:05 |
| king_aoeu | but you see my point right? | 03:05 |
| berndhs | they will support many different manufactuerers | 03:05 |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: I see your point, but it is wrong | 03:06 |
| berndhs | there is lots of space, lots of opportunity | 03:06 |
| berndhs | your point assumes that the market is small and will only support a few providers | 03:06 |
| gotclue | berndhs: you only want your (mabye) ux to sell. talk about few providers. | 03:08 |
| berndhs | no I want many UXs to sell | 03:08 |
| berndhs | I jsut want to have mine for me and people with similar preferences, if that ends up being a decent market, then fine | 03:09 |
| berndhs | I'm not interested in covering every taste | 03:09 |
| gotclue | you mean only a gui that let's you start/ stop one app XYZ. | 03:10 |
| berndhs | no | 03:10 |
| gotclue | on gui per app? | 03:10 |
| berndhs | many apps running at the same time | 03:10 |
| berndhs | how much you see depends on display size | 03:11 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | promise to play nice while i'm gone kids. g'nite! | 03:11 |
| berndhs | what you see per app depends on the app | 03:11 |
| berndhs | good night KaziKluBey_N900 | 03:11 |
| gotclue | 5" 800x480 three big icons... success! | 03:11 |
| berndhs | gotclue: not sure what that means | 03:11 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 is only sleeping... | 03:12 | |
| king_aoeu | here's an idea | 03:13 |
| king_aoeu | why don't you work on a platform that make it possible for people to build one app that would work on any os? | 03:13 |
| wmarone_ | qt can do that ;) | 03:13 |
| king_aoeu | why isn't widely used by all os? | 03:14 |
| wmarone_ | because Microsoft/Apple/Google don't want to | 03:14 |
| berndhs | qt apps work on android, mer, probably tizen, on desktop linux, mac, windows | 03:14 |
| berndhs | microsoft is trying to sell its own software, shocking as that may be :) | 03:15 |
| gotclue | i mean... i am going to get sleepy. I might doing a mer and start my own mobile os tomorrow. as gui... yeah, damn I'll use wxwidgets! | 03:16 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: i don't see your point.... | 03:16 |
| king_aoeu | does qt stop them from selling their software? in fact it would make their software work in any os (no port required), and allow all qt apps to work on wp7 | 03:17 |
| berndhs | no qt doesn't make anyone stop selling something else | 03:18 |
| berndhs | nobody has to use qt if they don't want to | 03:18 |
| gotclue | like the users don't want | 03:18 |
| berndhs | you should study the concept of "choice" :) | 03:18 |
| gotclue | because its slow | 03:19 |
| *** OdyX has joined #mer | 03:19 | |
| wmarone_ | gotclue: please, now you're just spouting BS | 03:19 |
| berndhs | gotclue: you're slow :) | 03:19 |
| gotclue | yeah. I know. qt isn't bad, but kde and plasma are. | 03:20 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: choice is the most overrated thing ever | 03:20 |
| *** sebsauer has joined #mer | 03:20 | |
| berndhs | king_aoeu: maybe you haven't had any | 03:20 |
| *** sebsauer__ has quit IRC | 03:21 | |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: why would someone not support a standard? why woudl a decide to no longer undestand english? so that i don't understand all the work that is done in english (so that most people can read it) ? | 03:21 |
| wmarone_ | hey look, his argument has come full circle | 03:21 |
| king_aoeu | it's retarded | 03:21 |
| berndhs | I support many standarts and even define my own standards, it's great | 03:22 |
| king_aoeu | berndhs: just watch this | 03:22 |
| king_aoeu | http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html | 03:22 |
| king_aoeu | it's one of the best video | 03:22 |
| king_aoeu | it's about choice | 03:22 |
| king_aoeu | don't you think choice opposes standard in many cases? | 03:22 |
| berndhs | and now I chose to watch a movie on my PS3, and maybe read an ebook using _my_ ebook reader app on my n950 | 03:22 |
| gotclue | I choose you pikatchu! | 03:23 |
| berndhs | so you go watch schwarts | 03:23 |
| berndhs | I watch sean connery :) | 03:23 |
| *** berndhs has left #mer | 03:23 | |
| king_aoeu | this guy is retarded | 03:23 |
| wmarone_ | king_aoeu: no, he's just tired of arguing in circles with you | 03:24 |
| king_aoeu | at least he's happy | 03:24 |
| *** n6pfk has joined #mer | 03:26 | |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 ...zzzZZZzzz... | 03:28 | |
| gotclue | good. i am sleepy enough. I think, I'll dream about forking Tizen, mix it with replicant and sell it to apple ;) | 03:32 |
| *** gotclue has quit IRC | 03:32 | |
| king_aoeu | he will get nightmares | 03:34 |
| *** n6pfk has quit IRC | 03:52 | |
| *** n6pfk has joined #mer | 03:54 | |
| *** n6pfk has quit IRC | 04:03 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 04:11 | |
| *** sandroandrade has quit IRC | 04:19 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 04:21 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 04:26 | |
| *** king_aoeu has quit IRC | 04:29 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 04:32 | |
| *** berndhs_950 has joined #mer | 04:36 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 04:41 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 04:41 | |
| *** leinir has joined #mer | 04:49 | |
| *** jabis has quit IRC | 04:50 | |
| *** sebsauer has quit IRC | 04:56 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 04:59 | |
| *** mike_m has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** jabis has joined #mer | 05:04 | |
| *** mike_m has joined #mer | 05:04 | |
| *** jbepsilon has joined #mer | 05:09 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 05:09 | |
| *** mike_m has quit IRC | 05:09 | |
| *** kthomas has joined #mer | 05:10 | |
| *** mike_m has joined #mer | 05:10 | |
| *** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC | 05:11 | |
| *** mike_m has quit IRC | 05:17 | |
| *** mike_m has joined #mer | 05:17 | |
| *** mike_m has quit IRC | 05:19 | |
| *** mike_m has joined #mer | 05:20 | |
| *** antoniojasr has quit IRC | 05:22 | |
| *** mike_m has quit IRC | 05:23 | |
| *** mike_m has joined #mer | 05:23 | |
| *** jbepsilon has quit IRC | 05:24 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 05:41 | |
| *** stefanoPi has quit IRC | 05:43 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 05:44 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 05:47 | |
| *** rdqfdx has joined #mer | 05:48 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 05:48 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 05:49 | |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 05:49 | |
| iekku | morning | 06:00 |
| dm8tbr | moaning | 06:01 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 06:05 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 06:05 | |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b king_aoeu!*@* | 06:05 | |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*@*92.196.92.184 | 06:07 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 06:07 | |
| Stskeeps | man, troll town last night | 06:07 |
| iekku | missed that | 06:08 |
| *** tomeff has quit IRC | 06:08 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 06:12 | |
| *** Stskeeps changes topic to "Mer is back! - http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-October/484215.html - http://www.merproject.org | Wiki: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/ | Contribution to packages: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution | Building against Mer in COBS: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Building_against_Mer_in_COBS | This channel is logged, http://mer.bfst.de/logs | Don't be a poisonous" | 06:12 | |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 06:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 06:12 |
| *** Stskeeps changes topic to "Mer is back! - http://bit.ly/qqX2jp - http://www.merproject.org | Wiki: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/ | Contribution to packages: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution | Building against Mer in COBS: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Building_against_Mer_in_COBS | This channel is logged, http://mer.bfst.de/logs | Don't be a poisonous person: http://oreil.ly/tdiQ5x" | 06:13 | |
| iekku | haha | 06:13 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 06:13 | |
| timoph | :) | 06:15 |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 06:16 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 06:25 | |
| *** Eismann has quit IRC | 06:31 | |
| *** Eismann has joined #mer | 06:35 | |
| *** kimitake_idle has quit IRC | 06:45 | |
| ighea | n810 builds ready? ;D | 06:45 |
| Stskeeps | ighea: sure, cxl000's been working on it | 06:46 |
| ighea | nice | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbE4Ply5Cbs | 06:46 |
| *** kimitake_idle has joined #mer | 07:01 | |
| vgrade | morning | 07:08 |
| Stskeeps | morn vgrade | 07:09 |
| vgrade | he got kicked from plasma, very funny | 07:10 |
| Stskeeps | some people just need to know basics of interacting with a project | 07:11 |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 07:11 | |
| vgrade | went in there, said your project sucks | 07:13 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, hrm | 07:13 |
| Stskeeps | that's just bad social skills | 07:13 |
| av500 | logs? | 07:13 |
| vgrade | [22:35] <king_aoeu> the "window" paradigm is dead and you should not use it | 07:16 |
| vgrade | [22:35] <king_aoeu> the ui looks cheesy as hell | 07:16 |
| vgrade | [22:36] <king_aoeu> i've seen 0 innovation in any of the screenshots | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. sigh :P | 07:17 |
| av500 | I have to admit, the 1st time I saw this: http://vizzzion.org/images/blog/active-web-activity.png I thought this: http://schinnell.org/pics/figure4w311.jpg | 07:19 |
| av500 | but then, Im not on #active :) | 07:19 |
| Stskeeps | it's retro times anyway | 07:20 |
| *** tomeff has joined #mer | 07:28 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 07:29 | |
| *** n6pfk has joined #mer | 07:33 | |
| * Stskeeps kicks off next mer release build | 07:37 | |
| *** veskuh has joined #mer | 07:38 | |
| *** fw190 has joined #mer | 07:44 | |
| Stskeeps | morn fw190 | 07:44 |
| fw190 | morn | 07:44 |
| fw190 | you are quick ;) | 07:44 |
| fw190 | I saw a new image of nemo | 07:44 |
| fw190 | seems tahta the wrok is going forward | 07:44 |
| Stskeeps | yes, quite | 07:45 |
| fw190 | the CSSU team is moving forward also so may trusty old N900 has some future ;) | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 07:46 |
| fw190 | and Tizen looks R.I.P. ;0 | 07:46 |
| Stskeeps | i trust they're just really busy codin | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | g | 07:48 |
| fw190 | some how I don't. I trusted Nokia, the MeeGo and now I'm sceptic | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | good thing we're alive then and kicking :P | 07:49 |
| *** sebsauer has joined #mer | 07:50 | |
| *** tomeff has quit IRC | 07:51 | |
| *** norayr has joined #mer | 07:52 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 07:55 | |
| fw190 | yep Mer is still there. Funny thing that indyviduals can gather and push something that big companies can't | 07:55 |
| *** phaeron has joined #mer | 07:57 | |
| fw190 | Stskeeps: it's time to celebrate . Tiil next time | 07:58 |
| Termana | morning | 07:58 |
| *** fw190 has left #mer | 07:59 | |
| Stskeeps | morn Termana | 07:59 |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 08:02 | |
| *** jargon- has joined #mer | 08:04 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 08:05 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 08:07 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 08:07 | |
| *** afiestas_ has quit IRC | 08:08 | |
| veskuh | I filed bug numer #1 http://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if we'll be able to keep the db, we plan to add LDAP auth | 08:22 |
| w00t | ugh | 08:22 |
| w00t | :P | 08:22 |
| w00t | when's that happening? | 08:22 |
| alterego | lbt said next week I think he's gonna set it up | 08:22 |
| alterego | Then we'll need to integrate with wiki and bugzilla. | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | it's on lbt's list, he is first setting up the new VM physical host so | 08:23 |
| alterego | We have meego.com config examples for how that works so shouldn't be _too_ difficult. | 08:23 |
| *** dyoung has joined #mer | 08:25 | |
| *** norayr has quit IRC | 08:25 | |
| cxl000 | ighea http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptation/N8x0 | 08:30 |
| *** xruxa has joined #mer | 08:31 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 08:42 | |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 08:43 | |
| dm8tbr | http://images.formeego.org/n810/ has been created with access for cxl000 and the 'n900' group | 09:00 |
| *** mdfe_ has joined #mer | 09:04 | |
| *** phaeron has joined #mer | 09:04 | |
| *** Guest43449 is now known as mord | 09:04 | |
| lbt | morning - yep, I got a fair way with the VM and phost deployment last night | 09:06 |
| lbt | One VM is running - shame there's no network or console though :) | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | details, details | 09:07 |
| lbt | *g* the console is the main reason I prefer xen | 09:07 |
| lbt | (there's that little in it) | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | screen + kvm? ;) | 09:08 |
| *** jonnor_work has joined #mer | 09:09 | |
| *** lamikr has joined #mer | 09:09 | |
| dm8tbr | lxc also has simulated consoles :) | 09:09 |
| *** tagunil has quit IRC | 09:10 | |
| *** kthomas has quit IRC | 09:17 | |
| *** tadaaki has joined #mer | 09:19 | |
| *** javiF has joined #mer | 09:20 | |
| *** arc_mat|tp has joined #mer | 09:23 | |
| *** slaine has joined #mer | 09:25 | |
| *** arc_mat|tp has quit IRC | 09:31 | |
| *** norayr has joined #mer | 09:32 | |
| *** kidproquo has joined #mer | 09:36 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #mer | 09:37 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #mer | 09:37 | |
| Stskeeps | mdfe_: heads up, in next mer release 4.8.0 rc1 comes | 09:39 |
| *** norayr has quit IRC | 09:40 | |
| mdfe_ | :9 | 09:40 |
| *** kidproquo has quit IRC | 09:51 | |
| *** sebsauer_ has joined #mer | 09:51 | |
| *** KaziKluBey has joined #mer | 09:52 | |
| *** sebsauer has quit IRC | 09:53 | |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: hi, any idea whats going wrong? http://pastebin.com/K3jcsUzh | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | mdfe_: ah.. sec | 09:54 |
| mdfe_ | packages-git/mappingscache.xml is empty | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | echo '<mappings />' > packages-git/mappingscache.xml | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | something went wrong in ordering it seems | 09:56 |
| mdfe_ | there are also old monster.tspre.org urls inside the script | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | ahh | 09:57 |
| mdfe_ | the new urls are working too | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | you're using the old one | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | 2. git clone http://monster.tspre.org:8080/p/mer/release-tools | 09:57 |
| *** norayr has joined #mer | 09:58 | |
| mdfe_ | no | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | yes, you are, you're using the gitorious one :P | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | which is wrong | 09:58 |
| mdfe_ | git clone https://git.gitorious.org/merproject/release-tools.git | 09:58 |
| mdfe_ | this the one I use | 09:58 |
| mdfe_ | ok | 09:58 |
| Stskeeps | that's old | 09:58 |
| mdfe_ | thx | 09:58 |
| *** tomeff has joined #mer | 10:01 | |
| *** dyoung has quit IRC | 10:01 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 10:03 | |
| *** sebsauer_ has quit IRC | 10:04 | |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: git clone http://monster.tspre.org:8080/p/mer/release-tools --> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly | 10:04 |
| *** sebsauer_ has joined #mer | 10:04 | |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it does that at times, try again? | 10:04 |
| *** Openfree` has quit IRC | 10:05 | |
| mdfe_ | hm, tried it 6 or 7 times | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | ok, do you have a gerrit account with ssh keys set up? | 10:07 |
| *** kakashi_ has quit IRC | 10:09 | |
| *** mingwandroid has joined #mer | 10:10 | |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: no I do not have a gerrit account | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | ok, lemme just restart gerrit, | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: doesn't KVM have a graphical console too? | 10:13 |
| *** norayr has quit IRC | 10:14 | |
| Stskeeps | mdfe_: try now | 10:15 |
| *** Hq` has left #mer | 10:16 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: btw, will you bash me over the head if i for fun tried to import a lot of fedora source package and test build them against Mer? | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | into COBS | 10:16 |
| mdfe_ | Stskeeps: :9 | 10:18 |
| mdfe_ | looks good | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | mdfe_: better now? | 10:18 |
| *** mmmm has joined #mer | 10:19 | |
| *** tagunil has joined #mer | 10:20 | |
| mdfe_ | yepp | 10:22 |
| mdfe_ | :) | 10:22 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 10:23 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 10:24 | |
| *** xmlich02 has quit IRC | 10:27 | |
| lbt | Stskeeps: fedora vs suse? | 10:27 |
| lbt | kvm does have graphical console - it's painful, slow and has no scrollback :) | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | point | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | but i have seen kvm with serial console or whatever too i guess | 10:28 |
| lbt | yeah - I had it working once | 10:28 |
| lbt | -nographic | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: well, i'd like to test how close our packaging standards are to fedora | 10:29 |
| lbt | I certainly have no bias against either | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | opensuse packaging is slightly different than mer/meego's so | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | as far as i can tell | 10:29 |
| lbt | mmm | 10:29 |
| lbt | fedora have sane changelogs don't they :) | 10:30 |
| * lbt votes fedora | 10:30 | |
| Stskeeps | ie, higher liklihood of failure | 10:30 |
| *** berndhs_950 has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| *** Venemo has joined #mer | 10:36 | |
| Stskeeps | matrixx: do you happen to be graphically and QML inclined? | 10:45 |
| matrixx | Stskeeps: not so graphically, more QML:cally | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | matrixx: reason i'm asking is because we need someone to make a small QML for initial Mer bringups on devices, ie, showing Mer logo, perhaps some animation, perhaps some touch feedback | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | matrixx: right now we just have qmlviewer startup animation but it doesn't show much/help test :) | 10:48 |
| matrixx | Stskeeps: I can start working on such | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | that'd be cool :) | 10:48 |
| *** smoku has joined #mer | 10:48 | |
| Stskeeps | wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Artwork has old SVGs and such | 10:49 |
| matrixx | Stskeeps: I'm waiting to get my N9 that I can leave N950 for mer work | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | bonus points for anything involving the ocean or fish | 10:49 |
| matrixx | let's see what we can come up :) | 10:50 |
| matrixx | animating fishes perhaps? :D | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:50 |
| dm8tbr | fishtank? \o/ | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mer_Wazd_Wallpaper_Nokian_Ship.jpg is still funny all these years after.. | 10:51 |
| * dm8tbr votes for animated fishtank background | 10:51 | |
| dm8tbr | hrhr, subtle :D | 10:51 |
| matrixx | :D | 10:52 |
| Termana | lol | 10:52 |
| xruxa | Good one | 10:52 |
| lbt | yay ... proper serial console on kvm | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 10:57 |
| lbt | it makes finding network errors sane | 10:57 |
| lbt | :Q | 10:57 |
| lbt | (I am not using vi by choice ... just in case you wondered) | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: not too friendly advertising for other projects in a newly started project | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | it creates a bad atmosphere :P | 10:59 |
| *** lauri has joined #mer | 11:01 | |
| lauri | Hey guys :P | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | lo lauri | 11:02 |
| lauri | Stskeeps: that's a familiar nickname :P | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | i'm everywhere | 11:02 |
| lauri | :D | 11:02 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, it was just too tempting to play the poisonous guy. | 11:03 |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 11:03 | |
| andre__ | plus if people want to do something *now* instead of waiting for vaporware it's the right thing to do. So I don't feel bad about it. | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: :nod: just letting you know my opinion | 11:04 |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 11:04 | |
| Stskeeps | andre__: either way, i've spent some setting up bugs.merproject.org (see enter bug) | 11:05 |
| andre__ | they can always kick me off the mailing list if it's an issue. I wouldn't care, it's dead anyway :) | 11:05 |
| andre__ | yay | 11:05 |
| andre__ | I'll review the draft for a bugzilla structure this weekend | 11:05 |
| andre__ | http://bugs.merproject.org/ is a 503 right now | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | seems so indeed | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | we're still setting it up | 11:07 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 11:13 | |
| *** peavey has quit IRC | 11:13 | |
| *** tomeff has quit IRC | 11:14 | |
| *** akira_tsukamoto has left #mer | 11:21 | |
| *** sebsauer__ has joined #mer | 11:24 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: OBS is just too damn fat | 11:25 |
| *** sebsauer_ has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| lbt | you could slim it down until you have pbuilder or any of the other "only do our own builds" systems :) | 11:26 |
| * lbt forgives OBS a lot - and yes it is too fat | 11:27 | |
| lbt | Stskeeps: what was it in particular? | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | what triggered me thinking it's too fat? that it needs too many resources constantly compared to what it realistically ought to :P | 11:29 |
| *** peavey has joined #mer | 11:29 | |
| * lbt looks at the build demands of Qt | 11:30 | |
| Stskeeps | it's better in qt5 | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:30 |
| lbt | so do you mean the chroot part? | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | no, the rest, api, scheduler, webui | 11:31 |
| lbt | or more the srcsrver/scheduler/dispatcher/api | 11:31 |
| lbt | yeah | 11:31 |
| lbt | well, ruby sucks in terms of memory - but hey, it could be java | 11:32 |
| *** himamura has quit IRC | 11:32 | |
| *** sebsauer__ has quit IRC | 11:34 | |
| *** sebsauer__ has joined #mer | 11:34 | |
| kimju | so far all the projects that I've had to do with ruby have ended up containing more code as patches to ruby's stdlib than in the main application itself.. still, I kind of like it as a language. | 11:34 |
| lbt | it's annoyingly appealling | 11:36 |
| *** Jucato has quit IRC | 11:36 | |
| *** Jucato has joined #mer | 11:38 | |
| *** Aurium has joined #mer | 11:39 | |
| *** F__i__L|AWaY has joined #mer | 11:40 | |
| *** RhymeswA has left #mer | 11:40 | |
| *** sebsauer__ has quit IRC | 11:41 | |
| Sage | Bostik: ping | 11:41 |
| Bostik | Sage: oi? | 11:42 |
| Sage | Bostik: you packaging qt5 for Mer? What is the status of that? | 11:42 |
| *** F__i__L|AWaY is now known as F__i__L | 11:42 | |
| F__i__L | hello | 11:42 |
| Bostik | Sage: it builds, but it doesn't really work yet | 11:43 |
| *** tomeff has joined #mer | 11:43 | |
| Sage | Bostik: you have the packages in OBS somewhere available? | 11:43 |
| Bostik | the beauty of it all is that I needed to do zero modifications to the specs and helpers to enable Mer builds - just added an OBS target and that's it | 11:43 |
| Bostik | http://gitorious.org/modular-qt-specwork/modular-qt-specs | 11:43 |
| Bostik | there | 11:43 |
| Bostik | pushed qtmultimedia packaging fixes there less than 10min ago | 11:44 |
| Bostik | I think Stskeeps has been updating the builds with those files :) | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but i don't have time for it right now :P | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | quite easy to get going though | 11:45 |
| Bostik | qtquick3d is broken for all builds outside local OSX, and qttools has been broken in so many ways it's not even funny | 11:48 |
| *** tomeff has quit IRC | 11:50 | |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 11:51 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 11:52 | |
| Sage | ok. Good to know. | 11:53 |
| slaine | It's great to see so much activity around here | 11:53 |
| slaine | thanks everyone | 11:53 |
| Sage | lbt: workers are disappearing again | 11:54 |
| *** lizardo has joined #mer | 11:55 | |
| lbt | better :) | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | how's the phost doing? | 12:00 |
| *** Hurrian has joined #mer | 12:00 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: trying an experiment with disabling webui from lighttpd and seeing how much memory that saves/load.. | 12:01 |
| *** phaeron has joined #mer | 12:01 | |
| lbt | apache/passenger seems better too FWIW | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | obs 2.3? | 12:02 |
| lbt | dynamic across api/webui too | 12:02 |
| lbt | yes | 12:02 |
| lbt | memcached works too | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | i should probably upgrade at some point | 12:02 |
| lbt | which means better response and less load | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | how big difficulty did you have upgrading? | 12:03 |
| lbt | not much | 12:03 |
| lbt | mmm was looking for notes | 12:04 |
| lbt | it took a while though | 12:04 |
| lbt | http://pastie.org/2797960 | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 12:05 |
| *** smoku has left #mer | 12:06 | |
| *** smoku has joined #mer | 12:06 | |
| *** otep has quit IRC | 12:12 | |
| *** javiF has quit IRC | 12:13 | |
| *** otep has joined #mer | 12:13 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 12:20 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 12:20 | |
| *** tagunil has quit IRC | 12:25 | |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 12:28 | |
| *** Aurium has quit IRC | 12:32 | |
| *** lizardo_ has joined #mer | 12:36 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 12:37 | |
| *** lizardo_ is now known as lizardo | 12:37 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 12:38 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 12:39 | |
| *** drussell has quit IRC | 12:40 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 12:40 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 12:48 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 12:48 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 12:50 | |
| *** himamura has joined #mer | 12:54 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 12:55 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 12:55 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 12:58 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 12:59 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:00 | |
| Stskeeps | http://fosdem.org/2012/devrooms_for_2012 | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | ^ Open Mobile Linux | 13:00 |
| *** berndhs has joined #mer | 13:01 | |
| w00t | scary | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | will be a good meeting place for Mer-minded people | 13:02 |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 13:02 | |
| *** norayr has joined #mer | 13:02 | |
| slaine | "World of GNUstep" | 13:02 |
| slaine | wow | 13:02 |
| slaine | that's still going ? | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:02 |
| * Stskeeps plays with meego 1.1 for MIPS | 13:03 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 13:08 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:08 | |
| *** mingwandroid has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| *** tomeff has joined #mer | 13:09 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 13:13 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:13 | |
| *** grega_ has joined #mer | 13:13 | |
| Termana | slaine, sounds almost like a dance | 13:14 |
| Termana | DO THE GNUSTEP BABY WOOO | 13:14 |
| slaine | lol | 13:14 |
| slaine | I just learned the GNUstep for my wedding dance | 13:14 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 13:15 | |
| *** Hurrian has quit IRC | 13:15 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:15 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:15 | |
| Stskeeps | god, i forgot how fucking slow native qemu-arm builds are | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | er, qemu | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: can webui be run on a seperate machine? | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: yes. | 13:22 |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:22 | |
| Stskeeps | ok | 13:22 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: check passenger-status | 13:22 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: You see that they are 2 separate applications | 13:22 |
| *** drussell has joined #mer | 13:24 | |
| *** phaeron has quit IRC | 13:26 | |
| *** sandroandrade has joined #mer | 13:28 | |
| *** bigbluehat has joined #mer | 13:31 | |
| *** sandroandrade has quit IRC | 13:32 | |
| *** bigbluehat has quit IRC | 13:34 | |
| *** sandroandrade has joined #mer | 13:35 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 13:37 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 13:37 | |
| *** Venemo has quit IRC | 13:39 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 13:48 | |
| *** niqt has joined #mer | 13:49 | |
| *** gabrbedd has joined #mer | 13:52 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 14:00 | |
| *** sebsauer has joined #mer | 14:11 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #mer | 14:15 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 14:18 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 14:20 | |
| *** veskuh has quit IRC | 14:28 | |
| *** tryggvib has joined #mer | 14:30 | |
| *** norayr has quit IRC | 14:31 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 14:32 | |
| *** drussell has quit IRC | 14:35 | |
| *** Eismann has quit IRC | 14:38 | |
| *** Eismann has joined #mer | 14:40 | |
| *** wicket64 has joined #mer | 14:41 | |
| slaine | anyone here learned much about pulseaudio ? | 14:43 |
| slaine | not directly mer related but hoped I might get some help | 14:44 |
| slaine | pulseaudio seems to launch gconf-helper | 14:46 |
| slaine | but there's a massive lag between pulseaudio starting and gconf-helper | 14:47 |
| slaine | like 20 seconds or something | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | that does seem rather high | 14:48 |
| *** trbs has joined #mer | 14:48 | |
| slaine | something is clearly blocking, I just need to track down what | 14:49 |
| slaine | this is on my customized fedora build | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | dbus launch maybe | 14:49 |
| slaine | Yeah, I wondered that, but dbus seems to be running ok prior to this bit | 14:50 |
| *** ssirkia has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| *** ssirkia has joined #mer | 14:54 | |
| *** mutek has joined #mer | 14:59 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 15:00 | |
| *** javiF has joined #mer | 15:03 | |
| *** mutek has left #mer | 15:07 | |
| *** mdavey has joined #mer | 15:08 | |
| *** arcean has joined #mer | 15:15 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #mer | 15:19 | |
| *** kyranto has quit IRC | 15:19 | |
| *** gabrbedd has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| *** sebsauer_ has joined #mer | 15:28 | |
| *** sebsauer has quit IRC | 15:30 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 15:30 | |
| *** tagunil has joined #mer | 15:31 | |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
| *** KaziKluBey has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 15:42 | |
| *** leinir has joined #mer | 15:48 | |
| *** kkkkkkkkkkkkk has joined #mer | 15:49 | |
| *** Jucato_ has joined #mer | 15:49 | |
| *** Jucato has quit IRC | 15:49 | |
| *** Jucato_ is now known as Jucato | 15:50 | |
| *** leinir_ has joined #mer | 15:50 | |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 15:51 | |
| *** M4rtinK has quit IRC | 15:53 | |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 15:54 | |
| *** drussell has joined #mer | 15:55 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 15:55 | |
| *** gabrbedd has joined #mer | 15:57 | |
| *** mlfoster has joined #mer | 15:59 | |
| *** tadaaki has quit IRC | 15:59 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 16:00 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 16:00 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #mer | 16:02 | |
| *** mdavey has quit IRC | 16:03 | |
| *** sebsauer_ has quit IRC | 16:03 | |
| *** leinir_ is now known as leinir | 16:05 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: starting to have tamed the kvm beast? | 16:06 |
| *** Eismann has quit IRC | 16:06 | |
| *** Eismann has joined #mer | 16:08 | |
| *** grega_ has quit IRC | 16:10 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 16:11 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| *** antoniojasr has joined #mer | 16:13 | |
| *** niqt has quit IRC | 16:13 | |
| *** slx has joined #mer | 16:14 | |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 16:14 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 16:14 | |
| *** swerden has quit IRC | 16:15 | |
| *** damnshock has joined #mer | 16:17 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #mer | 16:17 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 16:20 | |
| *** KaziKluBey has joined #mer | 16:23 | |
| *** tagunil has quit IRC | 16:25 | |
| *** n6pfk has quit IRC | 16:26 | |
| *** slx is now known as swerden | 16:26 | |
| *** rzr has joined #mer | 16:29 | |
| *** tagunil has joined #mer | 16:33 | |
| *** beholder has joined #mer | 16:35 | |
| *** mingwandroid has joined #mer | 16:38 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| * dm8tbr snickers | 16:46 | |
| dm8tbr | 16:43:40< king_aoeu> can anyone help me to get unbanned from #mer? | 16:46 |
| *** aoeu has joined #mer | 16:47 | |
| aoeu | can i talk to the person that banned king_aoeu please? | 16:47 |
| _av500_ | oh, you are not kind any moreß | 16:50 |
| _av500_ | ? | 16:50 |
| _av500_ | king :) | 16:50 |
| _av500_ | I guess the peasants revolted | 16:50 |
| berndhs | well, it happens | 16:51 |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 16:52 | |
| pdanek | http://mer.bfst.de/logs/%23mer/%23mer.2011-11-11.log.html | 16:52 |
| pdanek | starting 7:13am | 16:52 |
| pdanek | maybe this was reason for ban | 16:52 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: yep - been out with Denise - back now... | 16:53 |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 16:54 | |
| aoeu | beside saying someone was retarded, i didn't do anything wrong | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: your behaviour wasn't appropiate and i think you might benefit from reading this article to understand where you went wrong, http://oreil.ly/tdiQ5x | 16:55 |
| *** ssirkia has left #mer | 16:55 | |
| *** afiestas has joined #mer | 16:55 | |
| aoeu | thanks for the tip, i'm reading it right now | 16:56 |
| *** berndhs has quit IRC | 16:56 | |
| lbt | Stskeeps: that reminds me - can I get op for occasions such as that | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: you have it already AFAIK | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: since two years ago | 16:57 |
| lbt | I may just need training then :) | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | /chanserv op #mer | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | or msg chanserv works too | 16:57 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o lbt | 16:57 | |
| lbt | hmm - OK, I guess I don't understand the konversation UI :D | 16:58 |
| _av500_ | lbt: you issue the command | 16:58 |
| _av500_ | no ui needed | 16:58 |
| *** lamikr has quit IRC | 16:59 | |
| lbt | yeah I'm training myself to use these new-fangled guis :) | 16:59 |
| *** lbt sets mode: -o lbt | 16:59 | |
| * Stskeeps is trying to build mer MIPS packages | 16:59 | |
| * lbt is avoiding doing kvm.... | 17:00 | |
| lbt | but it beckons me... | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | anything i can help with? | 17:01 |
| aoeu | "For instance, people in the community can ask endless questions or focus on perfection (in a design or feature set) and bogart the attention of developers." i think describes me perfectly | 17:01 |
| aoeu | but i think it's legitimate to ask you if this project is really going in the right direction | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: right, but in practice it's best to combine it with both contribution and talk, -- talk is cheap, show me the code | 17:03 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: you might also consider taking a few courses: http://trolluniversity.com/ | 17:03 |
| aoeu | i'm not there to annoy you for the sake of it, i only want to bring my opinion, i don't think it's worth nothing | 17:04 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: 7h of it is too much | 17:04 |
| aoeu | how is it to much? it only shows my interest | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: judging by the interest in our work, i think we're on a good path | 17:04 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: it is still too much | 17:04 |
| _av500_ | you made your point | 17:04 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: not just yet - I'll let you know as soon as we have something | 17:05 |
| lbt | first an admin VM, then ldap | 17:05 |
| lbt | I'm using a private bridge as a mgmt VLAN | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: makes sense | 17:05 |
| lbt | so we can bridge that on the phosts using openvpn or something similar | 17:05 |
| aoeu | but i'm still not conviced that your project is bringing anything to us, and i want to to convince me of that | 17:06 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 17:06 | |
| lbt | aoeu: sorry, we're not really that interested in convincing you. | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: i can spend hours upon hours convincing you but honestly, it's better to be convinced at what we have | 17:06 |
| lbt | I asked you nicely last night to take the OT elsewhere | 17:06 |
| aoeu | i think that convincing people to use your product is fondamental | 17:07 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: take it or leave it or join and help | 17:07 |
| lbt | the lack of respect you show causes you to lose credibility | 17:07 |
| *** leinir has quit IRC | 17:07 | |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: ie, that we have something good that's immediately recognisable -- and well, only way to do that is to create it | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | read: i could sell you the stars but it doesn't matter if i don't have it, i have to spend time taking us there | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:08 |
| aoeu | i don't want to contribute to a project if i don't agree 100% with it | 17:08 |
| * _av500_ has a bridge to sell | 17:08 | |
| _av500_ | aoeu: then take option #2 | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: there's plenty of open source projects needing help, contribute to those that appeal to you | 17:09 |
| aoeu | it seems like you're only building a mobile os core for other's to use, but who are these other people and why do they need it? | 17:09 |
| _av500_ | there we go again | 17:09 |
| aoeu | instead of looking for project that appeals me perfectly or start my own, i start by looking for project that i think have potential, and change them so they share the same value as i do | 17:10 |
| _av500_ | lol | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: i'm going to restrict this conversation for 15 minutes, after that you're free to leave, or stay and contribute | 17:10 |
| _av500_ | what is your success rate? | 17:10 |
| dm8tbr | can we *plonk* now please? | 17:10 |
| aoeu | 0% | 17:10 |
| _av500_ | lool | 17:10 |
| aoeu | starting a new project is against my values, as it's selfish | 17:11 |
| _av500_ | i feel so sorry for you | 17:11 |
| aoeu | but i'm starting to think that most open source project have selfish motivations, so i may have to start my own project :( | 17:11 |
| * dm8tbr is a shellfish | 17:11 | |
| _av500_ | you are really stuck between rocks and hard places | 17:11 |
| *** tryggvib has quit IRC | 17:11 | |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: so, everyone who has to make a device with reasonably sane functionality will have to lift a burden regarding the OS core - not everyone can afford employing a team of 40 linux hackers | 17:12 |
| aoeu | if i was an open source project, i would love to have aoeu contribute to myself | 17:12 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: ok, 15minutes are over | 17:12 |
| _av500_ | obvious troll is ... | 17:12 |
| dm8tbr | aoeu: how selfish of you | 17:13 |
| aoeu | people with a vision are called trolls nowadays | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: Mer helps by making it possible for people to collaborate on something they otherwise would have to do on their own | 17:13 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: if you have visions, go see a doctor | 17:13 |
| _av500_ | famous german politician quote | 17:13 |
| aoeu | Stskeeps: i agree with this, but i think there's a better way to do this | 17:14 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: show us | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: OK, let me hear it in one sentence | 17:14 |
| aoeu | first, you have to determine if there's a market for it | 17:16 |
| aoeu | you can't create something, and hope people will use it | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | i have and there is | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | i didn't just jump into this blindly | 17:16 |
| _av500_ | aoeu: yes, open source can | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | i've identified practices in many different companies and challenges they've told me about | 17:17 |
| aoeu | companies don't always do the right thing you know? how many company build their own management system for themselves? too many | 17:17 |
| * _av500_ fails to see the point | 17:18 | |
| lbt | aoeu: what do you think you can contribute? | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | next argument - there is a market for sure | 17:18 |
| aoeu | maybe i'm wrong, but Mer seems to make it easier for companies to reinvent the wheel (making another mobile os), and i'm not sure that's a good thing | 17:18 |
| aoeu | wheel* | 17:18 |
| lbt | Mer is indeed aimed at companies who want a differentiated product | 17:19 |
| aoeu | what justifies something to be different? | 17:19 |
| lbt | but who want to limit that differentiaton as much as possible | 17:19 |
| aoeu | me | 17:19 |
| lbt | innovation and markets both require differentiation | 17:19 |
| aoeu | that's not entirely true | 17:20 |
| lbt | yes it is depending on the meaning of require | 17:20 |
| lbt | I use it to mean "they ask for" | 17:20 |
| lbt | not "they cannot provide without" | 17:20 |
| aoeu | well, every "new" or "alternative" product must have a strong reason to exist in the first place and if it fails, it should be destroyed | 17:21 |
| lbt | so it should differentiate? | 17:21 |
| dm8tbr | destroy all humans! | 17:21 |
| lbt | and yet you say : "make it easier for companies to reinvent the wheel (making another mobile os), and i'm not sure that's a good thing" | 17:21 |
| lbt | so on the one hand you support differentiation and on the other you forbid it? | 17:21 |
| lbt | hmm | 17:21 |
| aoeu | let's say 2 companies have 2 different way to make the same product, and one is successful, we should destroy the on that fails, not try to support it | 17:22 |
| lbt | define successful | 17:22 |
| * KaziKluBey_N900 deja vu | 17:22 | |
| _av500_ | aoeu: like apple setting out to destroy android :) | 17:22 |
| lbt | "makes most money".... "benefits society the most" | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | aoeu: 15 minutes are almost up, any finishing words? | 17:22 |
| aoeu | or converging | 17:22 |
| aoeu | i don't think success is exclusive | 17:22 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: can I practice? | 17:22 |
| _av500_ | go | 17:22 |
| vgrade | :) | 17:22 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o lbt | 17:23 | |
| Stskeeps | we all have things to work on so we have to move on | 17:23 |
| aoeu | anyway, don't say i did not warn you | 17:23 |
| aoeu | i'm full of advices | 17:23 |
| aoeu | but you don't seem to be taking me seriously | 17:23 |
| _av500_ | no really? | 17:23 |
| aoeu | so i'll have to leave you work on this | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: go ahead | 17:23 |
| *** lbt sets mode: +b *!adb32123@*.173.179.33.35 | 17:23 | |
| pdanek | :D | 17:23 |
| pdanek | silence | 17:24 |
| lbt | appropriat regex? | 17:24 |
| *** aoeu has quit IRC | 17:24 | |
| Stskeeps | sortof, but you're lacking the kick | 17:24 |
| lbt | OK - kickban then | 17:24 |
| pdanek | silence will fall | 17:24 |
| _av500_ | well, he asked the question that must not be asked... | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | now, seriously though: when making a product typically the last thing you want to do is screw around with e2fsprogs, troff and systemd | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:25 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: but buildroot does that for me :) | 17:25 |
| lbt | so... what would you have used to ban ... and why? | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so, i would have used *!*@ instead as the IP of the user is in the ident | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | and possibly taking out the /24 | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | not that it matters much these days, dhcp users fly around quite a lot :P | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: hehe, buildroot does serve a purpose similar-ish to mer yes | 17:27 |
| lbt | OK | 17:27 |
| dm8tbr | I'd actually have quieted him +q | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | or that | 17:29 |
| dm8tbr | means he can't talk but read :) | 17:29 |
| dm8tbr | much more fun | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | that said, we should really do some rationales on our existence somehow :P | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | even though it's probably better to actualy have omething that works | 17:30 |
| KaziKluBey_N900 | maybe a videocompilation on all devices running mer+ux | 17:32 |
| _av500_ | Stskeeps: hopefully on g9 soon | 17:34 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: how about "'cause we want to do this, if you don't want to use it or partake then fine" | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: also works, i guess | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | _av500_: looking forward to seeing it | 17:38 |
| *** xruxa has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| * Stskeeps disconnects from computer a bit | 17:41 | |
| *** berndhs has joined #mer | 17:50 | |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 17:52 | |
| *** smoku has left #mer | 17:53 | |
| *** afiestas_ has joined #mer | 17:56 | |
| *** afiestas has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** Eismann has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** Eismann has joined #mer | 17:59 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #mer | 18:00 | |
| *** shanem has joined #mer | 18:06 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 18:16 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 18:16 | |
| *** javiF has quit IRC | 18:24 | |
| *** drussell has quit IRC | 18:24 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 18:27 | |
| *** slaine has quit IRC | 18:34 | |
| *** lizardo has joined #mer | 18:35 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 18:39 | |
| *** pdanek has left #mer | 18:42 | |
| *** grega_ has joined #mer | 18:52 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #mer | 18:55 | |
| *** M4rtinK has joined #mer | 18:56 | |
| *** Alison_Chaiken has joined #mer | 19:01 | |
| *** lpotter has joined #mer | 19:05 | |
| *** Eismann has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
| *** OdyX has quit IRC | 19:06 | |
| *** OdyX has joined #mer | 19:06 | |
| *** Eismann has joined #mer | 19:08 | |
| *** mingwandroid has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| *** jjmarin has joined #mer | 19:14 | |
| *** jjmarin has quit IRC | 19:18 | |
| *** jjmarin has joined #mer | 19:18 | |
| *** jjmarin has quit IRC | 19:25 | |
| *** lpotter has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
| *** pdanek has joined #mer | 19:35 | |
| lbt | Stskeeps: when back can you check if the gratisdns.dk ns accept notify from 172.31.44.222 | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | .. why would it? | 19:49 |
| lbt | that's the maemo.org master named | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | i don't know if it does, but master DNS is set to 80.248.164.191 and it shouldn't get zone updates from anywhere else than the master :P | 19:50 |
| *** NIN102 has joined #mer | 19:51 | |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 19:53 | |
| lbt | OK - I thought ns.formeego.org was handled by the maemo.org NS | 19:53 |
| lbt | well, it is - that is where the zone files are | 19:53 |
| lbt | and that is 172.31.44.222 | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | that's slightly confusing | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | so ns.formeego.org is itself just a slave? | 19:54 |
| lbt | clearly there's an intermediary - I'd not realised | 19:54 |
| lbt | it does look like it | 19:54 |
| *** kimitake_idle has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
| lbt | X-Fade or dm8tbr ping | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | what symptoms are you seeing? zone not getting pushed out? | 19:55 |
| lbt | ys | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 19:55 |
| dm8tbr | lbt: yar? | 19:55 |
| lbt | so ... DNS for merproject | 19:55 |
| lbt | ns.formeego.org ? | 19:55 |
| lbt | I thought we had root on that - and I thought it was the maemo machine? | 19:56 |
| dm8tbr | I think X-Fade has, yes | 19:56 |
| lbt | OK - I'll check when I see him | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | ns.formeego.org is at logica, like rest of maemo.org machines | 19:57 |
| lbt | *nod* | 19:57 |
| lbt | I'm on 172.31.44.222 | 19:57 |
| lbt | maybe it NATs ? | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | inetnum: 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | netname: IANA-BBLK-RESERVED1 | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | descr: Class B address space for private internets | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | descr: See http://www.ripe.net/db/rfc1918.html for details | 19:57 |
| * Stskeeps pokes lbt with RFC1918 | 19:57 | |
| lbt | sigh | 19:58 |
| * Stskeeps slides a good cider over the table | 19:58 | |
| lbt | who uses the top end | 19:58 |
| lbt | 172 | 19:58 |
| lbt | 172.16 .... :) | 19:58 |
| * dm8tbr likes to use 172.23/16 for his stuff and for some conspiracy fun ;) | 19:59 | |
| * lbt likes 10.0.0.X .... so easy to remember | 19:59 | |
| dm8tbr | too popular :) | 20:00 |
| lbt | so many subnets | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | i use 192.168.98.* as that's the house number i used to live in | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:00 |
| lbt | hehe | 20:00 |
| lbt | access.merproject.org has made it out | 20:00 |
| dm8tbr | I guess it's like with machine naming, everybody has their favourite scheme | 20:01 |
| lbt | I can adjust my SSH settings now | 20:01 |
| lbt | I call my admin machines zathras | 20:01 |
| lbt | but you need to be a Babylon 5 fan to appreciate that one : | 20:02 |
| *** lpotter has joined #mer | 20:02 | |
| * dm8tbr uses shakespeare characters | 20:03 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 20:04 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 20:05 | |
| Bostik | I just go with obscure Norse pantheon | 20:06 |
| berndhs | i name my mobile things after warm islands | 20:07 |
| *** Kiranos has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** sandroandrade_ has joined #mer | 20:09 | |
| *** kimitake_idle has joined #mer | 20:10 | |
| *** Kiranos has joined #mer | 20:10 | |
| Stskeeps | any of you people have MIPS devices you'd like to run Mer on, btw? | 20:13 |
| *** norayr has joined #mer | 20:16 | |
| *** antoniojasr has quit IRC | 20:21 | |
| *** antoniojasr has joined #mer | 20:21 | |
| Stskeeps | my new favourite osc flag | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | osc checkout -l 500000 | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | don't download files over 500000 bytes | 20:23 |
| *** wicket64 has quit IRC | 20:24 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: something wrong with COBS schedulers? | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Astskeeps%3Abranches%3AMer%3Afake%3ACore%3Ai586 and i don't see any other jobs | 20:26 |
| lbt | it's churning away | 20:28 |
| lbt | Maemo.org may be blocking it | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 20:29 |
| lbt | repository 'Maemo.org:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan/standard' is unavailable | 20:29 |
| *** xruxa has joined #mer | 20:29 | |
| timakima | i see dead platforms | 20:30 |
| lbt | for your proj 5 mins ago building: 1, notready: 1, unfinished: 1 | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | timakima: hehe | 20:31 |
| lbt | timakima: careful..... you remember how *that* ended | 20:31 |
| *** harbaum has joined #mer | 20:32 | |
| timakima | sorry, couldn't resist while seeing maemo, meego and harmattan in a same sentence :) | 20:32 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: you didn't mention it was Qt | 20:32 |
| lbt | qt has to build on 04 - and 04 had died | 20:32 |
| lbt | building no | 20:33 |
| lbt | w | 20:33 |
| *** sandroandrade_ has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| *** sandroandrade has quit IRC | 20:33 | |
| Stskeeps | ok | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | i'm doing an experiment on debugging information | 20:34 |
| *** grega_ has quit IRC | 20:35 | |
| *** arc_mat has quit IRC | 20:36 | |
| Stskeeps | for the logs: standard '-g' in qt is 317.8 mb debuginfo | 20:37 |
| *** antoniojasr has quit IRC | 20:45 | |
| *** jargon- has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
| *** arcean_ has joined #mer | 20:52 | |
| *** arcean has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| *** arcean_ is now known as arcean | 21:01 | |
| Stskeeps | '-gstabs', 87.1 mb | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | '-gdwarf-4', 169mb | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | something is screwed up here somewhere | 21:04 |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 21:05 | |
| * lbt starts a deadmans switch before playing with iptables | 21:17 | |
| *** jonnor_work has quit IRC | 21:22 | |
| *** antoniojasr has joined #mer | 21:35 | |
| *** sandroandrade has joined #mer | 21:37 | |
| *** Cyb3r-D00m has joined #mer | 21:38 | |
| *** onekenthomas has joined #mer | 21:41 | |
| *** onekenthomas has quit IRC | 21:42 | |
| *** onekenthomas has joined #mer | 21:43 | |
| *** stefanopi has quit IRC | 21:44 | |
| *** stefanopi has joined #mer | 21:44 | |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 21:44 | |
| *** arc_mat|tp has joined #mer | 21:53 | |
| *** niqt has joined #mer | 21:58 | |
| *** norayr has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| *** mr_jrt has left #mer | 22:07 | |
| vgrade | nice and quiet tonight | 22:07 |
| lbt | quietly busy | 22:07 |
| Cyb3r-D00m | this silence is too loud for me :P | 22:11 |
| *** smoku has joined #mer | 22:12 | |
| *** lynxis has joined #mer | 22:13 | |
| *** iekku has quit IRC | 22:15 | |
| *** jvd_ has quit IRC | 22:15 | |
| *** jvd_ has joined #mer | 22:15 | |
| *** petterw has joined #mer | 22:16 | |
| *** iekku has joined #mer | 22:16 | |
| *** sandroandrade_ has joined #mer | 22:22 | |
| *** Cyb3r-D00m has quit IRC | 22:27 | |
| *** antoniojasr has quit IRC | 22:29 | |
| *** rdqfdx has quit IRC | 22:32 | |
| *** Kiranos has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| *** jjmarin has joined #mer | 22:34 | |
| *** jjmarin has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| *** mlfoster has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| *** Kiranos has joined #mer | 22:40 | |
| *** mdfe_ has quit IRC | 22:42 | |
| tripzero | Stskeeps, ping | 22:44 |
| * tripzero guesses he's sleeping | 22:44 | |
| *** pdanek has quit IRC | 22:45 | |
| *** jjmarin has joined #mer | 22:47 | |
| lbt | does he do that6? | 22:48 |
| *** anc_k has joined #mer | 22:55 | |
| *** lizardo has quit IRC | 22:56 | |
| *** lynxis has quit IRC | 22:59 | |
| *** sandroandrade_ has quit IRC | 23:04 | |
| *** Hurrian has joined #mer | 23:22 | |
| *** anc_k has quit IRC | 23:24 | |
| *** niqt has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| *** smoku has left #mer | 23:29 | |
| *** xruxa has quit IRC | 23:47 | |
| *** RhymeswA has joined #mer | 23:55 | |
| iekku | he is lucky one, can sleep | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
