Thursday, 2011-11-10

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Stskeepsmorn06:16
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cxl000morning06:24
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Stskeepscxl000: do you have wifi on the n8x0 's yet?06:40
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution#Responding_to_reviews <- valuable information for anyone contributing to Mer06:55
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Stskeepsmorn marquiz06:57
marquizmorning06:57
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vgrademorning07:03
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cxl000Stskeeps I have copied the maemo firmware and successfully loaded the wifi.07:21
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Stskeepsok, cool07:22
cxl000I have also scanned my AP07:22
cxl000just installing connman-test now.07:23
Stskeepsk07:24
cxl000wlan0 comes up with a bogus hw address07:24
Stskeepsthat's expected07:25
Stskeepswlan-cal and all07:25
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cxl000The battery management module is now compiling with the 3.1 kernel and detects the plug/unplug of the charger07:32
Stskeepsok, nice07:32
cxl000I'll do some extended charging tests when I have time to monitor the various bm metrics07:35
Stskeepswear protective glasses07:36
Stskeeps:P07:36
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veskuhStskeeps: A bit of feedback of the contribution. I think gerrit produces a bit too many emails for my taste.07:43
veskuhStskeeps: the other thing was that instructions did not mention that email address has to match the one in the actual commit.07:43
Stskeepsah, yeah07:44
Stskeepsi am pondering to merge the automatic testing mails a bit07:44
Stskeepsjust wanted something going at first07:44
* Stskeeps adds to todo07:45
Stskeepsveskuh: you can also add additional personalities/emails inside gerrit07:46
veskuhStskeeps: yeps, but still you need to configure your git to contain one of those emails07:46
Stskeeps:nod:07:46
Stskeepsdo you use a threaded email reader?07:47
Stskeepsi use gmail so it lumps things pretty nicely07:47
veskuhMainly yes, but on mobile no.07:48
Stskeepstrue07:48
veskuhbut main issue with a lot of mails is that it makes difficult to spot the ones where to react07:49
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Stskeepsperhaps change policy to only send mails that indicate something bad happened07:55
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Stskeepsie, "this package caused XXX to break" kind of stuff07:55
Stskeepsand perhaps "view test report at URL.."07:56
veskuhStskeeps: yes, and if all checks are ok and request approved maybe then email.07:56
Stskeepsok, noted07:56
veskuhGood that you added instructions on fixing submission.07:57
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arc_mat|tpStskeeps: how are you using gerrit? It interacts nicely with the google repo tool, but with regular git alone, isn't it a pain?08:00
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Stskeepsarc_mat|tp: not terribly compared to traditional OBS workflow08:03
Stskeepsarc_mat|tp: we have a bunch of git repos, one per packaging08:03
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veskuhStskeeps: maybe anon wiki access should be disabled? lot of spamming lately..08:19
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Stskeepsveskuh: yes, alterego was supposed to fix that08:20
veskuhGood08:20
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lbtStskeeps: http://monster.tspre.org/~merreleases/ ?08:55
Stskeepslbt: yes, now at releases.merproject.org, see the mailing list08:55
Stskeeps(i know, i should have forewarned about that..)08:55
lbtthere's a mailing list?08:55
Stskeepsyes?08:55
lbt:D08:55
Stskeepsmer-general08:55
lbtkidding :)08:55
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lbtslaine: hey .... I got round to doing my OBS setup docs last night08:56
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup08:56
lbtalso  : http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Systems08:57
slainelbt, cool08:57
lbtwould be great to merge things and verify08:57
slaineYeah, I should try and get my process into the wiki, been traveling the last couple of days08:57
lbtI've sent some patches to #obs to fix some issues too08:58
lbtI'd like to keep things discrete but connectable08:58
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lbtso use a consistent set of names and assumptions08:59
slainesure08:59
lbtso when someone sets up fakeobs it will connect to their obs and boss etc08:59
lbtand gerrit08:59
lbtwhen we figure it out08:59
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slaineJust checking up on my run while I was away09:02
slaineit looks like i586 and armv7hl mostly built09:02
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slainethe repo url doesn't appear to be working though.09:03
lbtI'm hoping to send in a 'named vhost' config to #obs09:03
lbtdo you mean the http:82 url ?09:03
slainelbt, yup09:03
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slaineWhen I try to go to, http://obsvm.labs.lincor.com:82/home:/glen:/armv7hl/Mer_Core_armv7hl, I get a 40409:04
slaine(not a public machine)09:04
slaineAll the packages built, bar boardname09:04
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lbtalterego: ping09:06
Stskeepsslaine: is your project marked in 'repositories' as 'publish'?09:06
slaineStskeeps, I'll check09:06
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slaine<disable/>09:07
slained'oh09:07
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* lbt wonders what the point of a disabled publish repo is?09:08
lbtseems a daft default09:08
* araujo has sometimes wondered that too09:09
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alteregolbt: pong09:11
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slaineYeah, with enabled set I can get to the repo now09:15
slaineCool09:16
slaineSo, PC KVM Host -> FakeOBSVM -> OBSVM -> Full build of i586 & ARMv7hl09:16
slaineYay09:16
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lbtalterego: can you give me sysop or whatever on the wiki - and I think we need anti-spam09:26
Stskeepswe enabled that this morning09:26
lbtOK np09:26
Stskeepsie, no anonymous edits and a captcha09:26
lbtOK - and only sysop can delete pages09:27
Stskeepsright, would be good to add that for you09:27
lbtyay ... image built on local IMG09:29
lbtusing "add my project repo" feature - which is rather neat (if it works)09:29
lbt"Retrieving systemd-37-7.1.i586.rpm ...OK"   seems to have09:30
alteregolbt: you now have Sysops and Bureaucrats09:31
lbtta09:32
alteregoSame goes for you Stskeeps ;)09:32
lbtI'm hoping to setup an LDAP over the next few days so we can add that09:32
alteregoThat'll be fun :)09:32
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lbtwe have the meego wiki config09:33
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lbtStskeeps: how do I test systemd then?09:38
lbtfor Mer09:38
lbtdo I use a Nemo image?09:38
Stskeepsyou could, and rpm -Uvh09:38
lbtI guess "what are our acceptance criteria" ?09:39
lbtThis is the 48h "suck it and see" window?09:39
Stskeepsright now, does it boot up and does it break any other packages09:39
lbt*nod*09:39
Stskeepsnot so far on the automatic booting just yet09:39
Stskeepshttp://review.merproject.org/10309:41
* Stskeeps likes09:41
lbtyeah - I'm pleased it wasn't too painful for you09:41
Stskeepswith a qt upgrade most of the fallout is likely to be in the vendors though09:44
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cxl000Stskeeps n810 now connected via wifi. Now I need to install more network apps.11:01
Stskeepscool11:02
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norayrcxl00Op: are you running mer or nemo on  n810?11:22
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cxl00Opnorayr yes. I now have it connecting to wifi11:51
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Meizirkkihello11:53
Stskeeps'lo Meizirkki11:53
Stskeepswelcome back to 2008 ;)11:53
Meizirkkihaha11:53
Stskeepshow are you doing?11:53
Meizirkkigood thanks. and you ?11:54
Stskeepsquite well, interesting times11:54
MeizirkkiA lot has happened to Maemo/Meego lately..11:55
Stskeepsyeah.. it felt like a good time to show everyone how a proper mobile project should be done ;)11:55
Stskeepsa lot of interesting things already running on it11:56
Meizirkkirunning on.. Mer?11:56
Stskeepsyeah11:56
Stskeepsmer's now defined as a core and user interfaces and hardware adaptations are outside11:57
Stskeepssec11:57
Meizirkkioh11:57
MeizirkkiSorry, I haven't been keeping up with Mer or about anything for the whole year11:57
StskeepsNemo - handset user interface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCCxjO0CXjw11:57
Stskeepshehe, i'm just filling you in :)11:57
MeizirkkiStudent life.. ;)11:57
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xFbWDXTqLk - Plasma Active on N95011:58
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4XxQpJpitY - Cordia (hildon desktop) on ideapad11:58
Stskeepsso you're in lukio now or did you move on to university?11:59
av500[Exit]? really?11:59
Stskeepsin the nemo video?11:59
Stskeepswe didn't enable gestures yet11:59
av500yep11:59
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl7Djukoysc has gestures12:00
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MeizirkkiStskeeps, I'm in vocational institute studying electronics and some lukio subjects.12:01
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MeizirkkiIt's kinda two in one :P12:02
StskeepsMeizirkki: alright, sounds like a good topic :)12:02
MeizirkkiYes, I've always been more of a hardware guy12:03
MeizirkkiKinda random, but I've been interested in different phenomenom of static electricity lately. Tesla's stuff.12:04
Stskeeps:nod:12:04
Stskeepsquite useful to know about for making electronics12:04
MeizirkkiI've already managed small-scale, but great distance wireless transmission of electricity with _seemingly_ >100% efficiency. Tesla was a genius.12:05
MeizirkkiI can't really tell why the voltage received is bigger than the one transmitted. The coils are identical after all12:06
Meizirkkiwhy*12:06
Stskeepssounds like you should pursue physics as well12:06
Meizirkkimm12:07
MeizirkkiThat's what my father told me ;)12:09
MeizirkkiBut due to these tests with Tesla's technology I'm very much questioning some laws of physics right now.12:10
MeizirkkiTesla disagreed with Einstein on many things.12:10
MeizirkkiWasn't E=mc² proven wrong by quantum mechanics already?12:10
Meizirkkianyway*12:11
Stskeepshehe12:11
Stskeepsdid you still have your n810 or was it broken?12:11
MeizirkkiBroken :( But I still have it12:12
Stskeepsalright12:12
Stskeepsit was the screen or something right12:12
MeizirkkiIt's fully functional but there are cracks in the screen covering almost half of the stuff on screen12:13
MeizirkkiI can't see what's below12:13
Stskeeps:nod:12:14
MeizirkkiTouchscreen is still working almost perfectly12:14
MeizirkkiMy touchbook is not as lucky. :P12:16
Stskeepshehe12:16
MeizirkkiIt's dead in ten different ways12:16
Stskeepsnot the most solid piece of hardware12:18
Meizirkkiindeed12:18
MeizirkkiIt was messed up. I know I kinda praised it when I had it but in fact it's the single most unusable device for what it was intended for12:20
Stskeepsand worst of all, that everyone ended up copying it some years after (see asus transformer..)12:20
Stskeeps:P12:20
Meizirkkiyea12:20
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* Meizirkki finished watching the videos.12:24
MeizirkkiInteresting12:24
Stskeepsyeah, a lot of cool stuff12:24
MeizirkkiN9 seems like a good device. I heard it has sold ok too12:25
MeizirkkiIs Nokia now 100% with MS or is there still some meego development going on by them ?12:26
Stskeepsthere's a lot of rumours but of course the N9 still gets updates12:26
Stskeepswe're some people who work on the Nemo stuff12:26
Stskeeps(public, open source project)12:27
Stskeepsbut nothing comercial12:27
Meizirkkiokay12:28
Meizirkkiafk12:29
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lbthttp://review.merproject.org/#change,10612:35
lbtso Stskeeps is BOSS doing stuff now?12:35
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Stskeepsyes12:36
Stskeepsit should pick it up in shortly though12:36
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Stskeepslbt: and now you see why i should have some kind of central log place to dump failures12:41
Stskeeps-----------------------------------------------------------------12:41
Stskeeps----- building systemd.spec (user abuild)12:41
Stskeeps-----------------------------------------------------------------12:41
Stskeeps-----------------------------------------------------------------12:41
Stskeeps+ exec rpmbuild -ba --define '_srcdefattr (-,root,root)' --define 'disturl obs://build.tspre.org/home:Admin:SBC:tmpq1tfMaobsupload-change-106/Core_i586/455322545f8bce35c63c114db1fdab74-systemd' /home/abuild/rpmbuild/SOURCES/systemd.spec12:41
Stskeepserror: File /home/abuild/rpmbuild/SOURCES/systemd-37.tar.bz2: No such file or directory12:41
Stskeepslbt: http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution#Responding_to_reviews12:42
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lbthow on earth is that missing12:42
lbtah12:43
Stskeepsforgot to git add it probably12:43
lbtI missed the sign-off and then missed that in the 2nd go around12:43
Stskeepsgit commit -s --amend is very usefl12:43
lbtyeah ... it's in the non-signed-off commit here12:43
lbtso should I get a fail email ?12:45
Stskeepsyeah, you got one already i think12:45
lbtgood, I'm glad I slipped that process test in there then :P12:46
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lbtthe git process doesn't look sustainable though - having each tgz as a blob12:52
lbtI'm thinking we should be using pristine-tar12:52
Stskeepstwo things: we need to be able to verify that we use exact tarball as upstream and 2) we need to make it easy to replicate mer12:54
Stskeepseven with OBS we had to upload big files12:54
lbtpristine tar is designed to do binary replication of an upstream tarball12:54
Stskeepsmmk12:54
lbtlet me show you in a bit12:55
lbtI have a pristine tar tree of systemd-35 36 3712:55
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mdfe_hi all, what happens to the meego-ux-settings-libsettings package in mer core? I cannot find a alternative package12:56
mdfe_sorry my fault :(13:00
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mdfe_please ignore, I have done a mistake by renaming repository names13:01
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lbtmdfe_: hey13:03
mdfe_hi13:03
lbtmdfe_: we removed the meego.com link too13:03
lbtit seemed to be the cause of more issues13:03
Stskeepsdid you set up a repository people can build against..?13:03
lbtStskeeps: no. it was late13:04
lbtand I'm kinda waiting for some interest13:04
lbtso if mdfe_ needs MeeGo:Trunk then we can set it up13:04
mdfe_lbt: This would be aweseome13:04
Stskeepsmdfe_: are you using trunk or 1.2?13:04
mdfe_Stskeeps, lbt: more important is 1.2 but we take what we get13:05
Stskeepsok13:05
Stskeeps1.2 is prolly easier to import13:05
lbt*nod*13:05
lbt*sigh* .... I'll add it to my list13:05
lbtfood ... bbiab13:05
mdfe_lbt: :)13:06
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slaineWhat are the chances for fakeobs being run/hosted on the merproject server ?13:28
Stskeepsnil13:29
slainetoo much overhead ?13:29
Stskeepsthe idea is to avoid central points of failure, api.meego.com was a nightmare for us all13:29
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Stskeepspeople's OBSes simply grind to a halt, so13:29
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slainenod, but if rsync is down, it's just as bad, seeing as fakeobs is just a seed to your own obs13:30
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lbtslaine: nah.... once rsync is done you're safe13:30
slaineyeah, but once you've done a copy pac, your safe too13:30
Stskeepsof course, but rsync just means you can't update to next snapshot, not that your entire production halts13:30
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Stskeepslbt: next time around remmber change-id:13:32
Stskeepsless clutter13:33
lbt?13:33
slaineI'm not following how fakeobs being external grinds my obs to a halt if it's down. Perhaps I'm not using it as it's intended ?13:33
slaineOnce I've pulled in all the packages from fakeobs, into my mer snapshot hosted on my OBS, I don't need fakeobs13:33
Stskeepsslaine: to properly track you need linkpacs from fakeobs13:34
slainenot copypacs13:34
Stskeepscopypacs aren't bound to give a proper result13:34
Stskeepsbesides that, even an idle link can cause problems at times13:35
slaineI understood it that the copypacs, copied the package from one obs server to another, which allowed me to import all the projects from the fakeobs and rebuild them on my obs instance13:35
Stskeepsright, but it's not a proper way to actually track the core13:36
Stskeepsas you don't get updates13:36
slaineBut what I should have done, was do a linkpacs, which redirects from my obs out to the fakeobs instance13:36
slaineand I'll only get updates, once I run the rsync13:36
slaineso I can control when I get them13:37
slainek13:37
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norayrcxl000: I guess you have prepared the image? Do you know whether usb host mode works?13:44
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Stskeepslbt, so what's on your list after 1.2 build import?15:14
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lbtphaeron had a boss problem ... then polish the notes from the systemd release15:16
Stskeeps:nod:15:16
lbtthen VMs on merproject.org15:17
lbtdid you have anything?15:17
phaeronlbt: no problems :)15:17
Stskeepslbt: nop, just had to check where the vm setup was on the list15:17
Stskeepsin order to prioritize myself15:17
lbtphaeron: cool - what was it15:17
lbtStskeeps: oh, and try to see where Pasi is15:17
phaeronlbt: one was bossbot not being a maintainer in target project15:17
lbtOK15:18
Stskeepslbt: my list is setting up the mer bugzilla, find out some way to add components automatically for tonight15:18
phaeronlbt: and the other was a bug in buildservice that I fixed on vm and will add to git15:18
slaineWhats the plan for the 1.2 import, are we looking are doing a MeeGo 1.3 based on Mer ?15:19
lbtI'm going to become religious so I can pray that kvm VM setups are at least vaguely similar to xen15:19
Stskeepslbt: disk images, rest can be fixed15:19
lbtslaine: I'm doing the 1.2 import now15:19
slaineYeah, but why ?15:19
Stskeepsslaine: customer service for meego using people on COBS15:19
slaineAh, makes sense15:19
lbtplasma active specifically15:19
Stskeepsslaine: we dropped the live link to meego OBS as it was too unstable15:19
slainenod15:20
lbtso it's rude to not permit meego builds15:20
lbtslaine: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_private_instance_boot_strapping15:20
slainelbt, my OBS_Setup.txt might be of some help15:20
slaineFirst section is about setting up kvm host and clients15:20
lbtslaine: link ?15:20
lbtOK15:20
slainehttp://slaine.org/files/OBS_Setup.txt15:21
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slaineIf you can use a native lvm partition, as I did in the guide, it helps a lot with i/o performance15:21
lbthehe15:21
lbtreminds me of the one for c.obs15:22
lbthttp://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Installation15:22
slainecool15:22
slainehehe, mine was nearly that complicated15:23
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lbtStskeeps: phaeron noticed : http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2011/11/10/bugzilla-without-our-own-server/15:26
Stskeepslbt: suppose they could wrap under Nemo15:27
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lbtor part of the incubation around Merproject?15:37
Stskeepsalready commented15:38
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Stskeepsmorn gabrbedd15:45
gabrbeddGood morning Mr. Keeps.15:46
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arc_matlbt: ping15:51
lbtpon15:51
* lbt really really needs a new kbd15:51
arc_mat:)15:52
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arc_matlbt: we're running in a little bottle neck here because I have to channel all build requests through mdfe, can you help me with an obs account?15:52
lbtsure ... you need a meego.com account15:53
arc_matmwelwarsky15:53
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lbtdone15:53
arc_matlbt: thanks15:53
av500not a tizen account these days?15:53
mdfe_:)15:53
Stskeepsyou can't register on tizen.org15:53
av500Stskeeps: I know, they are still busy porting the community15:54
lbtROFL15:54
arc_matlbt: now let's see if I remember my password :(15:54
lbtmeego.com has a reset by email15:54
Stskeepslbt: also for the list: first VM: ldap15:55
arc_matlbt: I remembered it ;)15:55
lbtwas already there15:55
Stskeepsah god15:55
Stskeepsgood15:55
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Stskeepsmatrixx: ping16:00
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mdfe_Stskeeps: I cannot build against Mer:fake:Core:armv7l at the moment16:45
mdfe_Stskeeps: I'm not able to trigger a build for this target16:45
Stskeepsmdfe_: i'll take a look16:45
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Stskeepsmdfe_: caused an updates storm for schedulers16:47
mdfe_Stskeeps: Thanks :)16:48
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Stskeepsmdfe_: let me know if that changes anything16:52
mdfe_Stskeeps: I will do16:53
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mdfe_Stskeeps: It looks like the publishing is stuck and mayby this cause trouble by dependency calculation16:58
vgradeyea, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=Project%3AKDE%3ADevel&repository=Mer_Extras_armv7l16:58
vgradehas not transitioned from Finished state16:59
vgradehttps://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=kdelibs&project=Project%3AKDE%3ADevel17:00
mdfe_on sade's project too17:00
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Stskeepsmdfe_: how did your own OBS setup go btw?17:12
mdfe_I do the setup of a server at the moment17:15
Stskeepsalright17:15
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arc_matStskeeps: I've tried building a package locally, but I keep getting errors about "wrong exec format", as if the host cpu was trying to execute arm binaries17:16
arc_matStskeeps: and the build fails, of course17:16
av500arc_mat: you need to build on the target of course!17:17
arc_mat /ignore av50017:18
Stskeepsarc_mat: ah, that's normal - what host system are you on17:18
Stskeeps?17:18
arc_matopensuse 11.417:19
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Stskeepsarc_mat: ls -l /usr/bin/qemu-arm17:22
arc_matcomes up blank, but I have /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static17:22
Stskeepsok, do you have qemu-binfmt-conf.sh too by chance?17:23
arc_matat least I have no package containing that17:24
Stskeepsarc_mat: cp /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /usr/bin/qemu-arm17:24
Stskeepsand run http://pastie.org/284274817:24
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arc_matStskeeps: thanks17:27
Stskeepslbt: i've noticed obs 2.3 asks for _pubkey now17:30
Stskeepschecking out what happens if i answer 404 instead17:30
arc_matand voila I have my package, and it only took a day ;)17:31
Stskeepshehe17:31
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mdfe_:)18:06
* Stskeeps is setting up bugzilla18:11
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lbtmumble18:17
Stskeepsmm?18:17
Stskeepsnot due for launch before we've set up ldap too :P18:18
lbt:)18:18
lbtI was going to do minimal VM installations18:18
Stskeepshttp://bugs.merproject.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Mer%20Core18:18
Stskeepsgoing for approach of triaging is better than default assignees initially18:20
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Stskeepslbt: "Mer Vendor Interface: If you have a problem with the "interface" of the Mer project to you as a vendor, file a bug here"18:41
lbtgood idea - a concrete place18:41
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mdfe_hi all, any idea where I can get osb-server-install-i686-2.1.9-Build3.10.iso ?18:52
lbtno... but if you want an OBS...18:55
lbthttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/OBS_Setup18:55
vgradehttp://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tools/images/18:55
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mdfe_greate thanks :)18:56
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cxl000morning20:16
cxl000norayr I've not tested USB. I'll add it to the todo list. You are welcome to build an image a test.20:17
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vgradecxl000, morning20:22
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cxl000Hi vgrade did you say you knew a UI person interested in the n810?20:46
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vgradecxl000, yes20:57
vgradesec20:58
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vgradeti.eugene@gmail.com21:04
vgradeQtDesktop guy21:04
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pdanekseems #tizen is one of most useless romms ever, considering amount of people staying there every day :D21:14
pdanekrooms *21:14
pdanekfor now21:14
norayrcxl000: morning :)21:14
cxl000morning norayr21:15
pdanekhave anyone here purchased N9 yet?21:15
norayrcxl000: how is your port?21:15
norayrI mean build21:15
norayrAnd is it described somewhere?21:16
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cxl000I'll update the community wiki shortly.21:16
norayrhow to build the image21:16
norayrthanks!21:17
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norayrDo you use some UX on it?21:17
norayrmeego ux sould be too slow21:18
cxl000The kickstart there needs a couple of minor changes and I'll add some instruction for getting wifi up.21:19
cxl000This build uses Razor (QtDesktop) which feels OK.21:20
pdanekcan I ask, build for which device?21:21
norayrdo you think you can also provide an image for releases.merproject.org?21:21
norayrN81021:22
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* norayr watches razor-qt screenshots21:24
king_aoeusup people, i hope this channel is more alive than #tizen21:24
matrixxhiya21:24
cxl000I should be able to provide an image.21:28
cxl000bbiab21:28
norayrking_aoeu: at least we have something to talk about the topic21:29
king_aoeu:P, true21:29
Velmontpdanek: Are you asking anyone? I have an N9. I guess loads of others.21:31
pdanekjust guessing if anyone is already porting Mer to N9 :)21:32
pdanekI know that most of hardwork is done on N900, a bit of N95021:32
pdaneka bit of on N950 *21:32
VelmontAh. I'm definately not doing any porting :-) But will test stuff when more starts popping up.21:34
w00tn950 and n900 are in pretty good shape, n9 is a bit more difficult due to there not being any way to restore it if you screw up, but some people have gotten mer running already21:35
pdanekyou can't really reflash it after brick? no Nokia provided software for it?21:36
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king_aoeudoes mer work with any hardware manufacturers?22:07
king_aoeuyou won't go far with the n922:07
Stskeepsking_aoeu: hardware adaptations are outside the mer project, so is UI, we just provide a piece of the puzzle for others to use22:08
king_aoeudo you work with tizen?22:08
Stskeepsking_aoeu: no code is released, so not really22:09
king_aoeubut why aren't they using your code?22:09
king_aoeuwhy do everybody in this world reinvent wheels?22:09
king_aoeuthere's 2 possibilities, either the tizen people are retarded (which i think is true), or mer is a complete failure22:10
king_aoeuno offense, it's just my opinion22:10
king_aoeuLots of people are working on mobile os right now, and i have no idea why thy do so22:11
king_aoeuwe already have a lot of them, and another mobile os die everyday22:11
king_aoeueven webOS22:11
Stskeepsking_aoeu: well, i don't fully see your point.. we have something that works here and projects using us22:11
king_aoeuwhy don't you work with Mozilla, they're doing theirs i think22:11
andre__where does mozilla have a mobile OS?22:12
king_aoeumozilla is working on a mobile os22:12
king_aoeuidk if they're transparent or not about it22:12
Stskeepsking_aoeu: mer is a core, not a full ui nor the next revolution to topple iphone22:12
king_aoeuand does anyone plan to use this core?22:13
andre__mer is a core, and nemo/N900CE is *one* potential user interface for it22:13
Stskeepsking_aoeu: sure, various companies and projects already trying it out22:13
king_aoeui don't see why everyone want their own os22:14
Stskeepsking_aoeu: our main target is small to medium businesses22:14
Stskeepsking_aoeu: either way, what do you hope to contribute with?22:14
king_aoeua new os doesn't bring any value to the world (most of the time)22:14
king_aoeui think mobile computing is part of the future22:15
king_aoeubut mobile computing can't be separate from other form f actor os22:15
king_aoeuone core/os must be used on every devices22:15
king_aoeui don't like competition, as it's not a win-win situation22:16
Stskeepsi vote for windows 8 in that case22:16
king_aoeumost of the time, competing products offer 99% of the same thing, while use want 1 product that offers 100% of the features22:16
Stskeepsking_aoeu: could i ask you to browse through the urls in the topic and read up a bit about what Mer is about?22:16
king_aoeui think Microsoft are the only one going in the right direction right now22:16
king_aoeuwith W8 and Windows Phone22:17
king_aoeuthey want to unify the experience, which is awesome22:17
king_aoeuthe problem is, they still don't innovate enough in the UX field22:17
king_aoeui personally want to contribute to bring a new UX to mobile computing22:18
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king_aoeusince i don't work for microsoft, i have to find an open project that could be like a proof of concept, for others to use22:18
Stskeepsalright, then you might want to base upon mer to not do all the boring system stuff22:18
king_aoeubut most open os put the emphasis on technical aspect, not the ux, when the ux really is what matters to the user22:19
Stskeepssee Plasma Active and Nemo UIs for examples of mer use22:19
king_aoeubut are they really innovating?22:19
Stskeepssure, at least plasma22:20
king_aoeuor just cloning other  mobile os, to let mer be usable, when that's not really the objective here22:20
king_aoeuill take a look at them22:20
king_aoeudo Plasma Active/Nemo UI people hang out here?22:20
king_aoeuor in their own channel?22:20
Stskeepsmer does not contain a ui or hw adaptations, we just provide foundation, google for plasma active22:21
Stskeepseither way, sleep time22:21
king_aoeui understand that, just asking if ui builder hand out here22:21
Stskeepsthey do, but they talk primarily in #active22:21
Stskeepsbbl22:22
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king_aoeubut yeah, i think we need an open mobile os but i think most people here just do it for the sake of making an open os (to not use microsoft/apple stuff)22:22
king_aoeufrom what i saw, MeeGo didn't look that great22:22
wmarone_meego had the problem of coming with a UI, but always accompanied by the message of "the UI is just a reference"22:23
vgradeking_aoeu, http://twitpic.com/7bxu2w, how more unified do you want, plasma active built on Mer core, on TV on Tablet on Mobile?22:23
king_aoeuyou forget desktop22:24
wmarone_use an appropriate UI for the desktop22:24
wmarone_nothing in Mer prevents that22:24
king_aoeuthose aren't appropriate?22:24
king_aoeuthis picture shows the idea, but there's not much details22:24
vgrade?22:25
vgradeall the work going on in device adaptation and ux can be found here, http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace22:26
king_aoeuthe picture i mean22:26
vgradeany more details you need?22:27
king_aoeunot really22:29
king_aoeuplasma's ui looks cheesy22:29
king_aoeualso, the window paradigm is over22:30
king_aoeuhas nemo ui a website?22:31
vgradewiki page, off the community page I linked22:32
jceking_aoeu: the window paradigm is "over"? I think that might be a bit premature.22:33
berndhswindow paradigm is only over for people with tiny screens22:33
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berndhsand once all the little devices have projectors, it will come back in some way22:34
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king_aoeuberndhs, no, the window paradigm really is outdated and obsolete22:37
king_aoeubtw, #plasma banned me, didn't take long22:38
king_aoeuthey have a weird definition of free speech22:38
wmarone_king_aoeu: hmm, I would love to see the logs that led up to it22:38
king_aoeui said i didnt't want to be rude22:38
king_aoeuthan i got rude22:38
wmarone_so you barged in and started flaming or something?22:39
king_aoeubut i just gave them my opinion about plasma-active22:39
king_aoeui think i remained calm22:39
king_aoeuhere's the transcript : i don't really think i'm interested in plasma anymore22:39
king_aoeu- the ui is not really innovative22:39
* KaziKluBey_N900 hickups22:40
king_aoeui don't want to be rude, but the ui looks likee a clone of other os (but poorly executed)22:40
king_aoeu the "window" paradigm is dead and you should not use it22:40
wmarone_so you rolled in and essentially started trolling22:40
king_aoeu the ui looks cheesy as hell22:40
king_aoeui've seen 0 innovation in any of the screenshots22:40
king_aoeukick, i try to join, banned22:40
* KaziKluBey_N900 fetches the gloves22:40
king_aoeui don't think i trolled them22:40
wmarone_sure you did, you came in and immediately started criticizing22:41
king_aoeui expected a reaction, it's true, but i only said my honest opinion, never invented anything to make them react22:41
king_aoeupersonally, if i had a project like this, i would love people to come and criticize it22:41
king_aoeui would explain them the design decisions, and change the design if the person brings good arguments22:42
wmarone_sure, but have you brought any good arguments?22:42
wmarone_no, you simply opened fire with opinion22:42
king_aoeuthey did not give me the time to22:42
* KaziKluBey_N900 thinks he's not the only one who had a drink or two tonight...22:42
wmarone_generally you should come prepared, even better would be to not fill the channel with it22:43
king_aoeuthey asked me if i saw plasma active one, i said yes, here is what i think about it22:43
wmarone_king_aoeu: what other screenshots have you seen?22:43
king_aoeui've seen this http://plasma-active.org/22:43
wmarone_ok,have you used it?22:43
king_aoeui think it's enough to judge22:44
wmarone_not really22:44
king_aoeui haven't use it, but i don't think i need to22:44
king_aoeuwhy don't you think so?22:44
berndhsbest way to evaluate is to run it on a virtual machine for a bit22:44
king_aoeui like how the widgets/window align/snap to the grid22:45
king_aoeubut that's about it22:45
arc_mat|tpking_aoeu: so, do you have a project that would invite people to criticize it?22:45
king_aoeuunfortunately i don't have one yet22:45
king_aoeubut i'm actively looking for one22:45
vgradegood luck22:46
king_aoeuthx22:46
berndhsking_aoeu: what could you contribute ?22:46
king_aoeuideas, which is not really what people are looking for as a contribution22:46
berndhsking_aoeu: design work, implementation work, marketing, money, hardware ?22:46
king_aoeui can program, but i don't think i'm the best programmer22:47
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king_aoeui'm very good in conceptual design22:47
king_aoeui can't design good interfaces (using photoshop and stuff), since i don't have the artistical skills required22:47
vgradedo you have any story boards?22:48
king_aoeubut i'm good at judging about design, and making outline22:48
king_aoeustory boards?22:48
king_aoeuno22:48
berndhsstory board is a draft, or sequence of drafts, showing how some action progresses22:48
berndhslike drawing of scenes in a movie22:49
king_aoeui don't have any real draft22:49
king_aoeui can't design a complete os just like that22:49
wmarone_you don't have to design a complete OS22:49
king_aoeui'm looking for people interested in the same thing as i am, then i will work with them on something22:50
vgradehttps://desktopsummit.org/sites/www.desktopsummit.org/files/contour_marcoMartin_FaniaJoeck.pdf22:50
king_aoeui need feedback22:50
king_aoeuatm, i'm good at spotting what is wrong with operating systems22:50
vgradecreate something like that and ask for comments22:50
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king_aoeumostly mobiles one, since they're closer to the ultimate  experience than destop os22:50
berndhsi'm looking for cooperators for a UX, but it has a specific direction I want to go in22:50
king_aoeuit's not that specific22:51
king_aoeubut yeah, i already have a good idea22:51
berndhswell, my purpose is specific :)22:51
king_aoeuoh, i thought you were rephrasing what i said22:52
king_aoeuwhat is it?22:52
berndhsno I'm actually looking for collaborators22:52
berndhsI want to make a UX that enhances outdoor activities22:52
berndhssailing, snowboarding, farmers on their tractors22:52
king_aoeuoh, you talked about it earlier in another channel22:53
berndhssnowmobiling sorry22:53
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berndhsyes that one22:53
king_aoeucan you  give me an exemple?22:53
king_aoeuof an enhanced experience?22:53
berndhssailors communicating between boats during a race, doing navigation, fleet organization, party planning22:53
berndhsmanage consumables of the boat / the fleet22:54
king_aoeuso you want to build an activity management tool, for outdoor activities, right?22:54
berndhsthat is one aspect of it yes22:54
king_aoeui personally am interested in doing something similar, but not limited to it22:55
king_aoeuit won't be as specialised as yours tho22:55
berndhsbut the UX for that will be different from the usual UXs designed today22:55
king_aoeucan you give me an exemple?22:55
berndhsless emphasis on shininess of the UX itself22:55
king_aoeuthe best UI is no UI22:56
berndhsno dancing icons22:56
king_aoeui agree with you there, i don't like chromy stuff22:56
king_aoeuno chrome, no shine, no glassy buttons22:56
king_aoeuflat 2d and simple interface22:56
berndhsthe shinyness has  a purpose when the UX is for entertainment of passengers22:56
king_aoeulet the data shine by itself22:56
berndhsthis would be a somewhat separate market22:57
king_aoeuyes22:57
berndhsthink sports shoes versus dress shoes22:57
king_aoeui understand22:57
king_aoeudifferent purpose22:57
berndhssome of the same customers, companies could sell several devices to the same person22:58
berndhslots of money for everyone :)22:58
king_aoeu:)22:58
berndhsi dont want to replace anyone22:58
king_aoeui'm not sure i agree there tho22:58
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berndhsoh other people can make other interfaces, fine with me22:59
king_aoeui'm prefer the swissknife philosophy22:59
king_aoeuone that rules them all22:59
berndhsin fac they should, I don't want to make the same product for everyone22:59
arc_mat|tpjack of all trades, master of none...22:59
berndhsif I try to cover all tastes, I have to listen to too many people complain22:59
king_aoeubut i know that when you're a professional butcher that must use a knife all day, a butcher knife is better than a swissknife22:59
arc_mat|tpthat's the swiss army knife22:59
king_aoeuyes23:00
king_aoeuthat's the touchscreen23:00
berndhstouch screens suck as input devices23:00
king_aoeuthe touchscreen can be adapted to many ui (piano, dj board, keyboard)23:00
king_aoeubut it's not as good as the real tools23:00
berndhsbandwidth is too small, only 2 fingers, 3 at most23:00
king_aoeuif you use many different interface, a touchscreen is fine and portable23:00
king_aoeubut if you do dj professionally, don't use an ipad as a dj board23:01
king_aoeuyou need a balance, i agree there23:01
arc_mat|tpand yet it is what djs are doing...23:01
berndhstouchscreen is ok if the input bandwidth can be small23:01
berndhsbut that's not the main issue23:01
king_aoeuthe more experienced you get, the more custom the tools23:01
berndhsi'm not trying to sell particular devices23:02
berndhsthat's the manufacturers' resposibility, not mine23:02
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king_aoeuwhere does the idea come from?23:03
king_aoeudo you do such sport and lack a good device to do these things while sporting?23:03
berndhsi like sailing, don't do enough of it23:04
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berndhsI find watching movies on a 3 inch screen unfulfilling23:04
arc_mat|tpbut would you take a 10 inch screen with you, maybe on the metro?23:05
berndhsprobably too big23:05
arc_mat|tpa compromise23:05
berndhsyeah23:05
king_aoeuthe metro should be equiped with them23:05
king_aoeuno compromise23:05
arc_mat|tplike the touchscreen23:05
king_aoeui'm going to eat, later23:06
arc_mat|tpking_aoeu: the metro will not show the movies I like23:06
berndhsyou should have projectors, so you can use the guy in front of you as a display23:06
KaziKluBey_N900Anyone tried todays nemo-image?23:06
king_aoeuthe metro should be divided in multiple section for people with different taste/interest23:06
berndhsof course if you use the girl in front of you as a touch screen, your activities may later be severely limited23:07
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berndhsKaziKluBey_N900: there is an image ?23:08
KaziKluBey_N900shure is,i have on my device23:08
KaziKluBey_N900not now though..23:08
berndhsthat doesn't help me a lot :)23:09
berndhsi have one from last week I think23:09
berndhswhere is it from ? I'll add it to the wiki if its not there already23:09
KaziKluBey_N900repository.maemo.org/meego/Nemo/23:10
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KaziKluBey_N900berndhs: you meant nemo right?23:12
berndhsyes23:14
berndhsI put it in the list of resources23:15
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arc_mat|tpthe paradigms of this timezone demand I go to bed now23:21
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king_aoeui'm finding nemo deconcerting23:26
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berndhsah, sunny on saturday, good to mow the field for the last time this year23:32
KaziKluBey_N900Maybe some flyshing too if we're lucky23:34
KaziKluBey_N900flyfishing23:34
berndhsI can ride around on the tractor and think about applications I would like to have :)23:35
KaziKluBey_N900I can stand in a perfect stream and ponder...23:36
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KaziKluBey_N900I just don't understand the difference between cssu and nemo. Personally I feel nemo is the future and cssu a workaround...23:39
* KaziKluBey_N900 hides..23:39
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VenemoKaziKluBey_N900, I'm sorry?23:40
KaziKluBey_N900Huh?23:40
berndhswhat is cssu ?23:41
andre__cssu is based on maemo.23:41
VenemoKaziKluBey_N900, you srsly don't understand the difference between cssu and nemo?23:41
andre__http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU23:41
andre__while nero is meego's community edition.23:41
andre__that's the difference, I'd say.23:41
KaziKluBey_N900Yes I do. But I don't understand why people commits in nemo instead23:42
VenemoKaziKluBey_N900, Nemo is a user experience over Mer. Community SSU is a bunch of fixes for the old Maemo 5.23:42
KaziKluBey_N900Since it seems as nemo is the most open23:42
Venemoindeed it is23:43
KaziKluBey_N900What i'm trying to say is I would like to see everyone comitting to nemo since maemo is a deadend. Or,is it?23:45
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Stskeepsmore of a #nemomobile topic23:46
KaziKluBey_N900aa,you're right23:46
KaziKluBey_N900sorry,got caught up in the heated debate earlier on...23:49
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