Thursday, 2011-10-27

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Jucatocoffee in prague? :)05:20
iekkui think they prefer absinthe :P05:21
Ronksucoffee is overrated :)05:28
iekkuRonksu, absinthe for you also?05:30
dcthangheh, finlandia05:30
Jucatonot for Stskeeps. coffee is vital!05:30
dcthangor one shot of Koskenkorva05:31
Ronksuiekku: pretty much anything goes.05:33
Bostikabsinthe is evil05:33
Bostiknever again!05:34
Ronksuiekku: although I just filled myself with a huge mug of tea, and hsould probably continue the journey towards office.05:34
RonksuBostik: never again before the next time.05:34
Paimentea with absinthe mm mm mmm05:34
BostikRonksu: never again, period05:34
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BostikI *like* how absinthe tastes with burnt sugar; I *enjoyed* the vivid and colourful dreams it gave me05:35
Bostik... until that one time which gave such horrible nightmares and caused me to wake up in a spasm of anxiety05:35
BostikNEVER AGAIN!05:35
Ronksupoint taken :)05:35
Bostikbeing hung over I can take, being unsure whether I'm awake and having doubts to what would be the better answer is something I'd prefer not to experience with any frequency05:38
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dcthanghello, which is the most suitable SDK for Meego CE?07:16
Stskeepsqt sdk typically07:17
dcthangwhich one handset or tablet I mean?07:18
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Stskeepsjust do QML in general, if you can do it with harmattan qt components that is good07:18
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harbaumI wonder if it's time to stop promote qml. qt components differ significantly for the two plattforms supported atm (harmattan and symbian) and both have an expiration date07:24
dcthangokay, so no problem at all07:24
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Stskeepsharbaum: harmattan's qt components is surprisingily little tied to actual harmattan07:25
harbaumi have given up on using qml. the only plattform that really requires to use it is harmattan. all other ploattforms support plainqt nicely and the n9 isn't even available in most countries.07:26
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harbaumbut there's no othe rplattform that actaully uses it and imho it's nokias property and it wouldn't even be legal to use it on a different device07:26
dcthangwhy you gave up QML?07:26
* Jucato doesn't get the stop promoting QML because Qt Components ____.07:26
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w00tharbaum: it's perfectly legal, look at the licensing ...07:27
Jucatowhich is he referring to as "no other platform that actually uses it and it's nokia's property"? QML? Qt Components? or the Harmattan Qt Components specifically?07:28
w00t(i'm also not sure why you seem to think they differ, as apart from imports, they have the same base API, plus some extra platform-specific components)07:29
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Jucatoisn't that the purpose of Qt COmponents? having a base API on which other platform-specific components (like harmattan's, kde plasma's) can be built?07:29
w00tthere's also the 'custom' branch which provides a single set of components with zero platform-specific dependencies, which can run anywhere07:30
w00tJucato: ideally07:30
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Stskeepsmorn veskuh07:35
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veskuhGoor morn Stskeeps.07:36
Stskeepswhat was the url for your mer-nemo image review?07:36
Stskeepsi'm listening to ixonos' president of global services's commercial version of my hacking your existence keynote :P07:38
Jucatoisn't the "mer" in nemo redundant?07:38
harbaumw00t: So why is kate then asking people to copy files from the ctual device etc?
Jucatoor are there plans for Nemo to have other bases?07:38
StskeepsJucato: technically nemo could at some point rebase on something else07:38
veskuhStskeeps: enjoying it?07:38
harbaumShe sais the theme graphics are proprietary. And the components without graphics are rather useless07:38
JucatoStskeeps: ah07:38
Stskeepsveskuh: except for the singing part and it was a bit odd audience as target, yes..07:39
harbaumdcthang: because it's only required for harmattan and one can't even buy a harmattan device in my home country07:39
xruxaharbaum: I have made custom theming for Qt components for the ones I need in my apps. It is lot of work though ...07:40
w00tharbaum: CE has an openly licensed theme, so that isn't a problem07:40
Jucatoharbaum: even if that were true, that doesn't mean it's true for Qt Components in general, much less QML itself.07:40
Stskeepsveskuh: we had a quite good Mer day yesterday, we got like five minutes in Dawn's Tizen talk to talk about Mer, so, and meeting a loto f interesting people07:41
Jucatoso "stop promoting QML" because the harmattan QML components are "broken" doesn't make sense (to me)07:41
xruxathough it does not mean Nokia/Kate should put this together and officially add free QtComponents graphics to git somewhere07:42
Jucato("broken" for lack of a more general term for the situation you're describing about it)07:42
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xruxaveskuh: do you feel the applcaunched/booster actually works (is in makes things faster) - I did some measurements and could not see difference :(07:44
veskuhStskeeps: really nice, hopefully that will turn in to commits :)07:44
Stskeepsxruxa: widgets gallery booster really surprised me in speed on the nemo image07:44
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xruxaStskeeps: cool, will need a nemo image (as soon as sshd works out of box pls)07:44
veskuhxruxa: yes, it works if it is not starving out of memory again07:44
veskuhbut when we are running out of memory swapping will kill the benefit07:45
Stskeepsi saw a talk yesterday about someone who used ramzswap/compcache on meego n90007:45
JucatoStskeeps: how was your talk? is it over? (couldn't see your name in the schedule)07:46
xruxaI'm playing now with QtComponent based html5 runners now and those would be lovely is applauncherd works. Now it is 4 seconds launch times on N900.07:46
StskeepsJucato: wasn't a whole talk07:46
StskeepsJucato: just five minutes within another talk07:46
Jucatofaster-than-lightning talk07:46
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Jucatolike when you were invited on stage at las year's meegoconf?07:47
Stskeepsish, yeah07:47
veskuhxruxa: hmm.. actually at summer there was some boosters that had bugs since we had old version of it.07:48
Stskeepsancient version, too07:48
xruxaStskeeps: how fast is widgetsgallery (boosted) on the Mer image - I get  1 second non boosted on the current image07:49
Stskeepsxruxa: like 0.5sec ish07:49
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* xruxa is getting his N9 on Monday - then N900 is 100% for Nemo playtime :)07:52
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harbaumJucato: No problem, feel free to promote whatever you think it's appropriate. I have moved my efforts from qml and meego/harmattan to plain qt on symbian and perhaps mer and i am having good results08:03
harbaumI have spent some weeks learning aml and porting my stuff to qml and qt componentns, but the workload/possible audience ratio has turned out to be not worth the effort08:04
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Jucatoharbaum: I'm not promoting anything and having issues about it. you were the one who said "<harbaum> I wonder if it's time to stop promote qml." so I asked about that08:07
Stskeepsgood thing we can all work together on a core while disagreeing on the UI approaches :P08:07
Mirvharbaum: hi.. I still think QML would work just as fine on S60 5th edition, Symbian^3 and Maemo 5, since all of those support Qt 4.7.. and all new Symbian^3 work like the Belle is in QML. but of course there is a free choice.08:07
harbaumJucato: Uhm, correct :-)08:07
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harbaumMirv: Yes, but i don't need to rewrite anything for these. I can just recompile existing stuff08:08
Mirvthe longer term question is of course Qt5 transition which affects aeveryone08:08
Jucatoharbaum: I was just trying to ask for your reasons. that's all. no political agenda or whatever.08:08
Mirvharbaum: yep08:08
xruxabut he is 100% right - there is no clear position from Qt/Nokia on the theme/graphics for version of QtComponents :(08:08
Mirvdid anyone happen to have any information if a non-QML Qt application can be some way made non-ugly on Harmattan?08:08
Mirvthere was a hint about "MApplication" instead of "QApplication", but that was probably not any real information about helping with the issue08:09
JucatoStskeeps: and still people want Mer to bless a UX and/or hardware adaptation. sheesh -_-08:09
xruxahehehe, there was theme for QtGui but IIRC it was axed - those apps would look bad anyway08:09
StskeepsJucato: ncurses as main UX!08:09
JucatoStskeeps: why not! :)08:09
Jucatoin fact, why does it have to be graphics at all? no body said "UX" was "GUI" right? :)08:10
xruxaJucato: isn't that the whole point of one Mer and many UXs on top of it?08:10
Jucatofor a sysadmin on the road, the perfect UX would be a portable device with a keyboard and a command line08:10
Mirvwe just need touch input extension for ncurses08:10
Jucatoxruxa: yes. unfortunately, some people believe that it will be more successful to steer it some other way ... oh well08:11
* Jucato is just content to have experience Plasma Active on Mer on the N900 ...08:12
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faenilmorning :)09:08
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cxl000morning slaine how goes you OBS adventures?09:36
slaineStalled at the moment09:36
cxl000Is there updated documentation on getting set up?09:38
slainethe layout of mer/fakeobs wasn't conducive to having i586 and arm projects09:40
slainecxl000: I'll put up my guide once this last step is overcome09:40
slainedon't want to be harassing Stskeeps while he's at the conference in Prague09:41
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cxl000Are you able to mix arm arches like armv6 or does that suffer from the same layout problem?09:45
gpradewhat is your plans? do try oneday to install mer/nemo on a nokia n9? do you think this is possible?09:46
cxl000further adaptation to the trimslice then try and resurrect my n81009:49
faenilI've seen CE 1.3 on N9 at QtDevDays09:49
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gpradeit would be so cooool to see this oneday on my n9 :-)09:55
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faenil:) you will ;)09:59
gpradefine, thank you10:01
faenilat least, I know that MOSLO for N9 is coming, so...10:01
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gpradethen i will wait until the n9 is a littlebit cheaper and buy it then, at the moment i need to pay 700€ in germany as a eu-import10:02
faenilbut imho it would take something like 1 month and a half to get Mer on it..10:02
faenilgprade: I got it for free at DevDays :D10:02
slainecxl000: the problem seems to be with >1 arch10:02
gpradeok, but i am not a developer10:02
faenilgprade: oh ok :)10:03
slaineStskeeps said he'd think about it, I said we'd leave it 'til he was back from the conf10:03
faenilthen you might hate the actual status of Mer...I mean, the UI need A LOT of work :)10:03
faenilI mean the UI on top of Mer, of course10:04
faenilMer is only the core10:04
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gpradeone other question, core (from mer) means that this is the base for all distro, so you think mer will be the base for a car-pc too??10:04
faenilwho knows...10:05
gpradebut the idea from a core is for this cases?10:06
faenilI'm not sure actually...but yeah, you have the core10:06
slaineYes, that's the idea10:06
faenilthan you build hw adaptations to make it work on different hardware10:06
faeniland then put UI on top of it, to make it usable :P10:07
gpradethen i have a big, big, big, big, big wish. please integrate a syncframework into the core10:07
faenilplease God, do that xD10:08
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harbaumIt's really interesting to see how fast nokia can deliver devices if they want to ... and the lumia 800 with its 800x480 amoled imakes me want cordia on it12:23
Jucatolumia 800 is almost the same as the N9 right? give a few physical differences (placing of led flash, another button at the side) right?12:28
harbaumdunno ... the lumia will soon be available, so chances are that i'll see one in real life soon12:29
harbaumdoesn't the n9 have a 854x480 screen?12:29
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Hq`no need to guess, check from
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Jucato,N9 right. different CPU is probably the most significant ...12:36
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Stskeeps'lo wepoi13:32
wepoihello stskeeps13:32
Stskeepsso what brings you here?13:33
wepoicuriosity I guess13:33
wepoiso Mer is going to be Nemo?13:33
Stskeepsnah :)13:33
Stskeepsthe community edition project, ie, the one that had a handset user interface, is now called Nemo13:34
StskeepsMer is a core13:34
wepoiahh, OK I see13:34
wepoiwill be like SwipeUI, will it be .deb or .rpm and on which handset will it run?13:35
Stskeepsmer is a core, it doesn't have any user interface :) it's .rpm and Nemo is based upon Mer13:35
wepoithanks, OK rpm build in OBS I guess. Who will make the UI?13:36
Stskeepsanyone who wants to13:36
wepoiOK, but you guys won't integrate some FOSS UI from someone .. coz Mer is core, right?13:37
Stskeepscorrect, no preferentials13:38
bigbluehatmaybe there could be a section on the Mer site that references several UI wrapped options13:38
Stskeepsyes, there will be13:39
wepoiso Mer is mostly for device builders .. right? on what kind of Handset will it run initially? N9, N900?13:39
Stskeepswe will actively advertise for everyone utilizing Mer13:39
StskeepsMer already runs on N900, beagleboards, x86 devices, etc13:39
Stskeepstegra2 devices..13:39
bigbluehatand there's a lot of trolls here looking for the n800 builds ;)13:40
wepoiOK; thanks .. is there a roadmap or something? are you waiting for Tizen to release more information?13:40
Stskeepsright now we're setting up infrastructure - releases and builds and contribution is already rolling13:41
Stskeepswe're not strictly depending on Tizen as we have meego 1.3 core as a base13:41
Stskeepsand it works13:41
wepoiOK cool, thanks13:42
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Stskeepsno problem, we're always happy to talk about our work - there is no NDAs, no secret agendas, just proper open source :)13:43
wepoiübercool ;-)  and who might make the UIs? are there already people doing something? (besides Plasma Active)13:44
Stskeepsplasma active, Nemo, etc13:44
Stskeepssomeone can do a interactive busstop ui by ease13:45
arneti guess we have at least two iuis - cordia and one from meego13:46
Stskeepsthat too13:46
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wepoiwhere would I find more infos about Nemo (toolkit, interaction design etc) ?13:47
arnetcordia is based os maemo fremantle ui13:47
Stskeepswepoi: based off the N9 UI code, though without swipe13:47
Stskeepsqt, meego touch framework, etc13:48 is a good start13:48
wepoisupercool, why no swipe13:48
arnetcauseits ploprietary13:48
wepoibuh! OK13:48
Stskeepswepoi: nokia's design and closed source13:49
arnetwill we have a separate channel for nemo?13:49
Stskeepswe want something working first13:49
wepoiStskeeps: are the design guidelines for N9 Qt apps also ploprietary ;-) ?13:49
wepoidang, I think compatibility to that stuff would be good13:50
arnetyep, and may take place of absent trolls and remind that I would like to see a n810 version :P13:51
Stskeepsarnet: i can push you in the right direction..13:51
* bigbluehat waves at arnet13:51
arnetwepoi, I was using onscreen keyboard :P13:51
wepoiso in the long run Mer/Nemo could be used to update the N9 (after its last update 1.2) ? (if I am lucky)13:52
arnetStskeeps: okay, lets talk about it one day. I am currently building slonopotamuses gentoo on it13:52
Stskeeps:nod: good start13:53
Stskeepswepoi: people already run Nemo on it13:53
wepoiyou know, really want that white N9 .. so beautiful .. but I worry about updates13:53
wepoiStskeeps: coolio13:53
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arnetwepoi: Ive read somewhere that nokia promised support till 2015. But if you want to stay with freedom, you dont need it13:54
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wepoiwill unlocked/rooted Android phones be able to run Mer/Nemo?13:55
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Stskeepsit depends on chipset but it's a uphill battle13:55
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wepoiStskeeps: so if the chipset is similar to the N9 it might work?13:57
Stskeepswepoi: generally, you need GLESv2/EGL to work13:57
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wepoiwhich kernel version does the n9 run?13:58
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wepoiStskeeps: thanks, my Motorola Defy also has 2.6.32 and a very similar chipset like the N9 .. how would I go about (trying to) installing Mer/Nemo on it?14:03
Stskeepswepoi: OMAP3?14:04
wepoi800MHz Cortex-A8 processor, TI OMAP3610 chipset14:04
wepoiAFAIK just a bit slower than the N914:05
Stskeepsget own kernel booting and rootfs14:05
Stskeepsbaseband will be an issue14:05
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Stskeepslo araujo14:06
araujohello Stskeeps o/14:06
wepoiStskeeps: thanks a lot for answering all my stupid questions. I think I will look into getting my own kernel running. (I guess XDA devs is a good place to ask, right? )14:07
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araujoSage_, ping14:08
arnetwepoi: not stupid, normal questuins14:08
wepoiarnet:: OK, thanks14:09
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araujolbt_away, \o14:14
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lbt_praguehey ... just taking a breather14:14
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lbt_pragueI think Sage_ is on holiday for a bit BTW14:15
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berndhsit's bad enough that these contributors sleep, now they go on holiday14:18
Stskeepsor on advertising trips14:19
berndhsnext thing you know they will insist on 24 hour days14:19
araujolbt_prague, ooh.. I see14:22
araujolbt_prague, well, do you know if boss is sending a status message when packages are accepted for Mer to nemo-commits ml?14:23
lbt_pragueyou should have seen a message in #meego-arm14:24
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araujolbt_hel, ?14:57
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Stskeepshe has a lightspeed vehicle14:58
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lbt_helNah .... I upgraded to tachyon speed14:59
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Stskeeps'lo virtuald15:11
Stskeepsso what brings you here?15:11
virtualdwell i'm curious about mer and what it will mean for teh future15:13
virtualdand it's also to remind me to buy a new phone15:13
virtualdinstead of making a note, i join here15:13
Stskeepshehe, mer may be interesting in order to create the future :)15:13
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* Stskeeps heads out from linuxcon for some dinner15:15
virtualdyeah i'm not much of a programmer though15:15
virtualdok bye15:15
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* Stskeeps stretches19:14
Stskeepsharbaum_: good work with the beagleboard-plasma demo, was showing it to a few people today19:15
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KaziKluBey_N900Fawlty Towers on the telly. Still funny :)21:41
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Stskeepsrandom statistics: is a list of the mer packages, listing how many commits they recieved when they were in meego, over the length of the project22:05
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Stskeepsevening gprade22:23
gpradehello stskeeps, how are you? how was the con? i read that you are on a con?22:24
Stskeepsyeah, i'm at linuxcon, though leaving tomorrow midday-ish22:25
Stskeepsit was good, we gained a lot of interest in Mer and spoke to a lot of people22:26
Stskeepsso it was a good investment22:26
gpradecool, nice to hear22:27
gpradewith who did you spoke? people from device manufactures maybe?22:28
Stskeepsa lot of different people.. chipset manufactorers, ui people, etc..22:31
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gpradeok, what do you think how long you must work at the infrastructure (servers, wiki, and so on) for mer? when do you think you can work on mer?22:33
Stskeepsyou can already contribute, actually22:33
gpradeyou told in one past communication, that you must first do all this work, so then afeter finish you can start working on mer22:34
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Stskeeps , click "all" -> "merged"22:34
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Stskeepswe have some bits and pieces still to be done, such as doing some basic testing on each submit of code22:34
Stskeepsbut manual procedure is working22:34
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gpradeis something like a bugzilla?22:35
Stskeepsso, to contribute, you clone a git repo with the package in it, you change what you need to change, and submit it to review.merproject.org22:36
Stskeepsand then a number of tests will be run on it eventually, telling us if it's a good or a bad change22:36
gpradeok, cool thing that22:37
Stskeepswhen approved, it then becomes part of Mer22:37
Stskeepsanyway, i'm off to sleep22:39
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gpradei asked today to faenil if you can please add a syncframework to mer, what do you think about taht22:39
gpradeok, then next time, good night22:39
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