| *** BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil | 01:21 | |
| *** SpeedEvil is now known as Guest69157 | 10:41 | |
| henk | hi, my WIFI connection is currently on. Is it on all the time if available? is it possible to have it disconnect if not needed/used? | 10:52 |
|---|---|---|
| Coolgeek | you can use "situation". with this, you can automate some task based on several things. | 11:14 |
| Coolgeek | like activate the wifi when you are in a certain area or the access point if the blutooth is connected | 11:15 |
| Coolgeek | dunno if this will be good in your case | 11:15 |
| Coolgeek | so try it and tell us | 11:16 |
| henk | Coolgeek: thanks, that’s not quite what I’m after, though. let me rephrase: | 11:17 |
| henk | when I first started using the internet I had a dial-up connection (analog modem that actually dialed a phone number) and being online all the time was expensive. so my system and later my router used "dial-on-demand", meaning that the connection to the internet was established if and only if something actually tried to connect to the internet. after 3 minutes of inactivity the internet connection was | 11:21 |
| henk | "hung up", to save costs. I’d expect jolla to do the same with the WIFI connection: disconnect if there is no activity, as it is more expensive than not being connected (for the battery). i.e. I expect it to connect to a WIFI network _if necessary_, not immediately _when possible_. is it supposed to do that? | 11:21 |
| Nicd- | AFAIK Jolla already turns off WiFi a bunch when your phone is locked | 11:24 |
| Nicd- | and connects it when you unlock the phone (in anticipation that it will be needed) | 11:24 |
| henk | Nicd-: hm, ok, thank you. better than nothing, I guess, and probably a good approach for 80% of the cases … | 11:32 |
| Nicd- | it's probably the optimal approach for regular users | 11:33 |
| Nicd- | people want to use online apps when they unlock their phones | 11:33 |
| henk | yep. I’m an irregular user, it seems: I usually want to make a phone call when I unlock my phone … | 11:34 |
| henk | Nicd-: you are not quite correct: this doesn’t happen on "unlock" it seems but also on "power button pressed", which I do a lot because it’s my watch. | 11:38 |
| henk | i.e. without unlocking | 11:39 |
| henk | the same seems to go for "mobile data": always connected when the phone is "in use" whether needed or not. | 11:40 |
| Nicd- | makes sense, it's tied to the awake state of the phone | 11:40 |
| henk | would be nice to be able to configure that behaviour. | 11:40 |
| r0kk3rz | henk: how should it know 'when its needed'? | 11:41 |
| r0kk3rz | if you want to micromanage it, thats what the quick setings are for | 11:42 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: see above: dial-on-demand has been possible for at least two decades. I guess as soon as a connection to a network without a route is needed the connection that provides a default route is established but don’t ask me about implementation details please (: | 11:43 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: uhm, sorry, but that’s a strange comment. I’m asking exactly because I do _not_ want to micromanage and still have sensible behaviour. As I said: dial-on-demand has been in use for decades to save costs and prevent people from having to remember to switch off their modem or have to go switch it on when they want to go online. | 11:44 |
| r0kk3rz | nobody does that anymore, they just leave it on | 11:44 |
| abranson | henk: symbian used to do that, but by maemo/meego they'd dropped it. | 11:44 |
| abranson | i think as batteries got better and data got cheaper, it became an unnecessary complication | 11:45 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: what did you do to get qualified to speak for the world population? is that a seminar or some kind of certification? | 11:45 |
| r0kk3rz | the most sensible behaviour is actually just to leave it on | 11:45 |
| henk | and just because everything becomes cheaper and better, just leaving stuff running that consumes any kind of resource is still wasting. | 11:48 |
| abranson | i'd be interested to see if that's still implemented by anyone, and how. I think applications had to be written with the expectation that they shouldn't open connections in case they intend to trigger a connection prompt, so most modern applications would constantly try to connect. | 11:48 |
| r0kk3rz | what 'resources' exactly? | 11:48 |
| abranson | i remember the sfos connection prompt did a lot of spamming in the early days because of this | 11:48 |
| r0kk3rz | if nothing is transmitting, what do you think is happening? | 11:48 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: energy | 11:48 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: I see things being sent without me needing things being sent. | 11:49 |
| r0kk3rz | lol. which would still happen on a dial on demand scenario | 11:49 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: I see my jolla contacting my access point, i.e. sending via WIFI. for nothing. | 11:50 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: so I’m not sure what you mean "woul still happen"? | 11:50 |
| r0kk3rz | well, if something on the device requests network access, it would connect | 11:51 |
| r0kk3rz | right? | 11:51 |
| henk | I only press the power button, do not even unlock, and it contacts the AP. that is a waste of energy. | 11:51 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: yeah, but nothing does. | 11:51 |
| henk | it just does this "to be ready" when I just want to see the time. that is wasting. | 11:52 |
| r0kk3rz | how do you know? | 11:52 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: know what? | 11:52 |
| r0kk3rz | you say you see it contacting the wifi, well, how? | 11:52 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: monitoring the signal | 11:53 |
| henk | monitoring my AP | 11:53 |
| r0kk3rz | how? | 11:53 |
| Nicd- | it might be some zeroconf stuff, broadcasts, etc | 11:54 |
| Nicd- | I know my networks have a lot of activity on all the time when I open Wireshark, even if I'm seemingly doing nothing with the devices | 11:54 |
| r0kk3rz | not quite, its probably going to be any queued iphb requests | 11:54 |
| r0kk3rz | thats basically what iphb does | 11:54 |
| r0kk3rz | queues network requests for when the device is woken up | 11:55 |
| Nicd- | what's iphb? | 11:55 |
| r0kk3rz | like, when you turn on the screen | 11:55 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: ATM hostapd’s debug log. | 11:55 |
| henk | r0kk3rz: good enough? | 12:06 |
| r0kk3rz | not especially, but i dont really care either | 12:07 |
| henk | thought so, you seem rather careless | 12:08 |
| henk | another question: I noticed jolla contacts ipv6.jolla.com via http for some reason. any idea why? | 12:08 |
| Tofe | henk: that must be to determine if the network is actually working, i.e. not behind a proxy with login for instance | 12:10 |
| henk | Tofe: that doesn’t seem to happen for IPv4, though?! | 12:13 |
| Nicd- | I think it's to check for IPv6 connectivity | 12:13 |
| henk | so my phone drains my battery by connecting to wifi and/or mobile data anytime I wake it up just to see the clock, without any sensible reason. and it randomly(? can’t figure out when that happens, yet) leaks my (IPv6-network) location to jolla. both by design. I hate "phones" /-: | 12:23 |
| abranson | henk: that's so connman can detect if you're actually connected to the internet or stuck in a captive portal requiring a login. the other side just returns a standard code. you can set the url it contacts yourself if you're worried about it. | 12:26 |
| henk | abranson: good to know, but my main worry is that it does that without me even trying to access the internet … only because the device establishes a connection which I don’t even need at that moment, just because I might. automation gone wrong IMHO, but as we established before: I’m an "irregular" user, it seems … where can I change that URL? | 12:33 |
| abranson | henk: you have lsof and such like to find out what's connecting to the internet. like I said, most modern software expects a network connection to be present and will make connections whenever it feels like it. sailfish uses a lot of packages that are mainly used on desktop systems, so they won't be data-saving at all. | 12:36 |
| abranson | connman config is /etc/connman/main.conf | 12:37 |
| henk | abranson: "most modern software expects a network connection"? where do you get that idea? my laptop works just fine without an internet connection. the phone and most apps I use work just fine with WIFI and mobile data switched off. I did check: nothing connects to the internet. the phone just decides to establish a connection and in consequence connects to ipv6.jolla.com to check if it’s | 12:43 |
| henk | working. | 12:43 |
| henk | abranson: thanks, will that be overwritten by updates? | 12:44 |
| abranson | henk: you can switch off your wifi and mobile connections in sailfish just as easily as you can on a laptop. | 12:45 |
| abranson | but i haven't seen a device that will automatically connected and disconnect on demand since the last time I used symbian about ten years ago. | 12:45 |
| abranson | i'll rephrase: most modern software doesn't expect to have to ask for a network connection | 12:46 |
| abranson | not sure if it'll be overwritten. maybe. | 12:47 |
| henk | abranson: thanks | 12:55 |
| Tegu | hm, apparently, the vibration for calendar alert has changed from single vibration to double vibration | 14:50 |
| Tegu | a small detail but this is a bit better | 14:51 |
| *** BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil | 15:48 | |
| Kabouik_ | Is there a hidden option somewhere in Sailfish 3 to call from abroad? I change from Jolla C to Xperia X, same SIM and line, but now I cannot call from abroad. | 16:21 |
| Kabouik_ | The only things that changed are the phone and Sailfish fresh install to 3.0.0.8 (I was in 2.xxx on the Jolla C). | 16:21 |
| r0kk3rz | whats the issue with calling? | 16:22 |
| Kabouik_ | Whenever I call a number with the correct prefix, the call is immediately terminated before ringing | 16:22 |
| Kabouik_ | The numbers are all good, I am calling numbers that I called very often when I had the Jolla C | 16:22 |
| r0kk3rz | so you're using the +whatever country code | 16:22 |
| Kabouik_ | Yes | 16:22 |
| r0kk3rz | its not something ive done recently, but in the past that worked fine | 16:23 |
| Kabouik_ | I can send texts to those numbers by the way | 16:23 |
| *** pyllyukk1 is now known as pyllyukko | 16:46 | |
| *** jrayhawk_ is now known as jrayhawk | 21:40 | |
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