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| * keithzg[m] still can't quite understand why even the *software* sales are region-locked | 03:27 | |
| keithzg[m] | Oh well, guess I should just resign myself to never actually being able to use a SailfishOS device other than to play around with. Maybe I should actually have tried to get my tablet refund after all :/ | 03:28 |
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| tbr | keithzg[m]: let me guess USofA? | 05:50 |
| keithzg[m] | tbr: close, but no cigar! Canada. | 05:51 |
| tbr | same difference ;-þ | 05:51 |
| gexc-tablet | at least Canada uses metric :-/ | 05:52 |
| tbr | even the pint is metric in canada! (learned that recently) | 05:53 |
| tbr | I can't say I'm surprised. It makes sense from a beancounter risk mitigation standpoint. If you explicitly don't sell a product (regardless of hw/sw), you can't get sued over patent infringement. | 05:53 |
| keithzg[m] | Yup, it's 500mL, an official government unit of measurement! | 05:53 |
| gexc-tablet | the payment system seems not accepting CC issued by a US bank? | 05:54 |
| keithzg[m] | Ironically enough, patents are why Sony phones haven't had fingerprint sensors enabled in the U.S. . . . but they do in Canada. | 05:55 |
| keithzg[m] | gexc-tablet: Not surprising if they're trying to avoid purchases from outside of Europe ;) | 05:57 |
| keithzg[m] | Eh, I don't really buy the beancounter argument here, particularly because Canadian law and judicial precedents have been rather explicit about their inapplicability to software products sold by entities with no physical presence in Canada. | 05:59 |
| keithzg[m] | It goes to the extent that I don't even actually pay sales taxes on digital goods I buy from Google, because the sale is considered to have taken place outside of Canada. | 05:59 |
| keithzg[m] | So if Jolla's lawyers are the ones holding up Canadian sales, they need to hire new layers ;) | 06:00 |
| keithzg[m] | s/layers/lawyers/ | 06:00 |
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| gexc-tablet | hmm... that's stupid | 06:04 |
| gexc-tablet | we may consider someone travels to europe while holds a CC from somewhere else.. | 06:05 |
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| tbr | keithzg[m]: mm, that would be favourable. I'm not familiar with the trade treaties though, have there been any cases where companies got sued in the US for stuff that happened on the canadian market. (yes it's not logical, law defies logic) | 06:31 |
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| keithzg[m] | tbr: Certainly not that I'm aware of. And frankly, most of the trade treaties, if they have portions regarding liability and such, tend to be more about excepting these large multinational corporations from culpability than establishing methods of holding them to account :P | 06:41 |
| tbr | :) | 06:42 |
| jonwil | Patents have their uses (and there are many things over the years that deserved to be patented) but its gone too far with all the software patent BS | 06:43 |
| jonwil | its far too easy to get patents for very vague things | 06:43 |
| keithzg[m] | That's one of the reasons I was worried about the TPP, Canada has been fairly resistant (when you consider all the treaties and the common legal precedents and traditions), but the TPP would have done several things to "harmonize" US and Canadian patent laws and acknowledgements. And our damned government was champing at the bit to sign it, and definitely would have if Trump (in the one action he's maybe ever taken | 06:45 |
| keithzg[m] | that I've agreed with, hah) hadn't pulled out of the TPP. | 06:45 |
| keithzg[m] | The USPTO has gotten better at invalidating patents recently though, too, and there was that recent-ish supreme court case that slapped down many aspects of software patents (again), although some recalcitrant circuits continue to ignore that . . . | 06:46 |
| keithzg[m] | So U.S. patent law is at least getting slightly better, rather than worse. That's one of the reasons the Powers That Be tend to love trade treaties though; it kindof skips the legislative process, and then if people want to roll back the laws, "oh, sorry, but we've signed all these treaties!" | 06:48 |
| jonwil | I wish Australia wasn't so keen to sign all these treaties that benefit big corporations to the determent of everyone else. | 06:52 |
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| lantern1 | you can use any free EU vpn (https://www.freeopenvpn.org/logpass/germany.php) for example. They don't check the credit card issuer country. | 06:55 |
| lantern1 | so your card will be accepted by Jolla's billing. although you will pay full 50 EURO (includeing 24% EU VAT) | 06:56 |
| r0kk3rz | jonwil: you know the aus govt will do anything to help our export industries :p | 06:57 |
| jonwil | If the government genuinely cared about exporters they would be putting a LOT more pressure on other countries to remove tariffs and restrictions that prevent our farmers from accessing international markets (and subsidies that artificially distort the market and make foreign crap cheaper than the locally-produced stuff) | 06:59 |
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| ender| | note to self: Jolla will still sound the alarm even if the phone is off | 07:03 |
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| Tomo | yeah, that's actually pretty awesome.. saved me from missing my morning alarm a few times | 07:04 |
| tadzik | sounds good, but also sounds like something I wouldn't like to rely on ;) | 07:04 |
| louisdk2 | Have anyone tried enabling tap to wake on Sailfish X? :) | 07:05 |
| Tomo | in my case it's been a charger i _thought_ i plugged in in the evening | 07:05 |
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| pawky | if anyone also gets the "circling circle of eternity", its because one doesnt have the latest 34.3... thingy installd.. reflash with this first then re run the sailfish flash ;-) | 07:21 |
| pawky | oh.. and yes.. you have to boot after installing the 34.3 and go through the whole android init stuff (like described in the official install instructions), then it all works :-) | 07:23 |
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| keithzg[m] | Yeah, I remember my N9 doing the "alarm even while off" trick too, and other Nokias before that. 'Tis nice when you're running out of battery but know you're still going to need to wake up, although it does mean you really have to actually answer the alarm rather than mashing on your phone's power-off button ;) | 07:36 |
| Jope | heh | 07:37 |
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| ender| | louisdk2: i did, but couldn't find the setting | 07:54 |
| pawky | what are the instructions to install googles appstore on the Jolla X? | 07:55 |
| pawky | the same as the old ones? | 07:55 |
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| r0kk3rz | you dont | 07:55 |
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| pawky | r0kk3rz: i get your point, but if you really really need to | 07:57 |
| pawky | ? | 07:57 |
| r0kk3rz | it barely works anyway? https://together.jolla.com/question/160541/is-sailfish-blocked-from-google-play-store/ | 07:57 |
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| pawky | r0kk3rz: but isnt that an old problem where you will have to install an old version of the appstor, then update? | 07:58 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: (I am reading up... ) | 07:59 |
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| keithzg[m] | Is there really much point in installing the Play Store? Isn't there even an app in F-Droid these days that'll handle downloading Play Store APKs? | 08:00 |
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| keithzg[m] | https://f-droid.org/packages/fr.kwiatkowski.ApkTrack/ | 08:01 |
| inte[m] | I guess its rather that most playstore apps dont work withough google services nowadays | 08:01 |
| keithzg[m] | Yeah, Play Services is the big thing, the Play Store is kindof a side note (that also requires Play Services to run in the first place) | 08:02 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: the point is that you *cant* update it, because it stops working :P | 08:02 |
| inte[m] | there is NoGApps but I never got that work on my jolla | 08:02 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: you can but its weired | 08:02 |
| pawky | ok... but openGApps seems to be the way to go then? | 08:03 |
| inte[m] | for me the playstore only works right after install but stops working | 08:03 |
| inte[m] | so if i delete it and reinstall, it would again work once :) | 08:03 |
| r0kk3rz | lol | 08:03 |
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| keithzg[m] | inte: That does sound . . . not worth the hassle, hah | 08:04 |
| inte[m] | true :) I never use it | 08:04 |
| inte[m] | i use google services though | 08:04 |
| * keithzg[m] hopes to ever be able to use Google Services on SailfishOS again, it's not looking likely :P | 08:04 | |
| r0kk3rz | yeah i'm close to giving up on it really. AD has outlived its usefulness | 08:04 |
| inte[m] | if you can get it work on the jolla tell us how :) | 08:05 |
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| inte[m] | what is ad? | 08:05 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: in short the install instructions should be same as jolla c | 08:05 |
| inte[m] | apart from active directory | 08:05 |
| keithzg[m] | Inte: Alien Dalvik I assume | 08:05 |
| inte[m] | ah | 08:05 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: alien-dalvik, y'know the current topic of converstation :P | 08:06 |
| inte[m] | hehe | 08:06 |
| inte[m] | i cant say ad is doing bad | 08:06 |
| inte[m] | really | 08:06 |
| keithzg[m] | Sadly I feel like in some respects it's becoming more important these days, as services move away from open standards into proprietary protocols and apps. | 08:06 |
| inte[m] | im quite satisfied | 08:06 |
| r0kk3rz | aside from not being able to run anything anymore, yeah its great | 08:06 |
| keithzg[m] | haha | 08:06 |
| pawky | Am I right, nobody has still created any firewall app for sailfish? | 08:07 |
| keithzg[m] | Yeah hopefully Anbox or something similar can be adapted as a replacement solution. | 08:07 |
| inte[m] | i use car2go for example, which relies on google services unfortunately, but it works well | 08:07 |
| inte[m] | i cannot even get anbox run on my ubuntu desktop | 08:07 |
| inte[m] | its probably rather prealpha | 08:07 |
| keithzg[m] | Huh, really? Ran perfectly fine on my Kubuntu desktop when I tried it out ages ago now. | 08:08 |
| r0kk3rz | anbox on sailfish is worse than pre-alpha | 08:08 |
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| inte[m] | anbox seems to rely on certain graphic chipsets | 08:08 |
| pawky | openGapps didnt want to install :-( | 08:08 |
| inte[m] | doesnt work with intel onboard graphics | 08:08 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: for desktop, on sailfish we already run android graphics drivers | 08:08 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: ok cool maybe worth a try | 08:09 |
| keithzg[m] | Regardless, an open-source solution is clearly needed for replacing Alien Dalvik, and in theory things should be better these days since Android isn't based on the weird fork of theirs but rather OpenJDK. | 08:09 |
| inte[m] | pawky: told you... :( | 08:09 |
| pawky | maybe rip the .apk file from the Xperia image? :-) | 08:10 |
| inte[m] | libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate | 08:10 |
| inte[m] | [ 2017-10-12 08:09:22] [Renderer.cpp:190@initialize] Failed: Missing egl_image related extension(s) | 08:10 |
| inte[m] | thats when i start anbox here | 08:10 |
| inte[m] | try to start | 08:10 |
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| pawky | I wonder if one could get the good old debian guarddog working on Jolla... | 08:11 |
| keithzg[m] | inte: Almost certainly a matter of drivers; on the machine where it worked out of the box, I was running the open radeon drivers. | 08:12 |
| inte[m] | yeah | 08:12 |
| inte[m] | there are several threads regarding this issue on the github page | 08:12 |
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| pawky | is that aptoid store any trustworthy? | 08:17 |
| inte[m] | did anybody ever try microg on jolla? https://github.com/microg | 08:17 |
| inte[m] | oh just found it on tjc | 08:18 |
| louisdk2 | ender|, have you tried this: "mcetool -i disabled" and "mcetool -z always"? :) | 08:18 |
| keithzg[m] | Inte: Yeah, people have been doing that for a long time, I was gonna mention microG but I've been out of the loop long enough (pulled back in by the possibility of SailfishX) that I wasn't sure what the status of that was vis-a-vis SailfishOS/AlienDalvik. | 08:19 |
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| inte[m] | i think i gave it a try 2y ago but never got it work and eventually gave up | 08:20 |
| inte[m] | i barely use android apps, but those i DO use rely on google services so I installed the original | 08:20 |
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| keithzg[m] | Frankly if I ever get a SailfishOS device capable of running Android apps again I'll probably just stick to F-Droid and such, heh. Stuff like Signal is now available without Google Play Services, after all. | 08:23 |
| ender| | louisdk2: no, i was looking through the GUI options | 08:23 |
| FIQ | so after I updated to 2.1.2, my jolla seems to no longer recognize my SIM | 08:23 |
| Tegu | ouch | 08:23 |
| FIQ | trying to call someone to give a PIN prompt results in "Only emergency numbers allowed" (translated from swedish) | 08:23 |
| FIQ | has this problem been seen before? tried to google but nothing | 08:24 |
| Tegu | I cannot see 2.1.2 yet, but now I'm afraid to update when it comes available | 08:25 |
| FIQ | oh it's new? | 08:25 |
| FIQ | I figured it was an old update because I hadn't updated in years | 08:25 |
| FIQ | so I went to 2.0, then 2.1.2 | 08:25 |
| r0kk3rz | was released to everyone like, 2 days ago? | 08:25 |
| FIQ | ah | 08:25 |
| FIQ | well a phone that doesn't recognize my SIM is essentially a brick at the moment | 08:26 |
| FIQ | completely worthless | 08:26 |
| FIQ | lol | 08:26 |
| Tegu | indeed | 08:26 |
| r0kk3rz | FIQ: maybe try a version --dup to make sure everything updated, otherwise contact jolla care | 08:26 |
| Tegu | especially as a main phone.. | 08:26 |
| Tegu | perhaps post on TJC as well in addition to Jolla Care | 08:26 |
| Tegu | together jolla com | 08:27 |
| r0kk3rz | 2.0-2.1.2 is basically a replace the whole world update :) | 08:27 |
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| Tegu | apparently, 2.1.2 is a phased roll out https://together.jolla.com/question/168137/release-notes-212-kiiminkijoki/ | 08:32 |
| louisdk2 | I'm still wondering if a Sailfish X license is locked to a specific account or device? | 08:33 |
| stephg | louisdk2: account I would imagine | 08:33 |
| louisdk2 | stephg, So I could get a new device and use SFOSX on that instead? | 08:34 |
| r0kk3rz | louisdk2: it would be best to ask jolla about that, maybe its written in the fine print somewhere | 08:34 |
| inte[m] | did anybody backup the xperia x drm keys prior to install or is that done by the jolla software automatically? | 08:34 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: its not done by jolla... | 08:35 |
| inte[m] | ah ok no big deal its only that users should be aware on how to backup the keys because otherwise they couldnt return to android | 08:36 |
| inte[m] | at least not with all features | 08:36 |
| phlixi_o | inte[m]: http://sailfishmods.de/2017/07/howto-sony-xperia-x-teil-1-cda-drm-keys-bootloader/ | 08:36 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, thats up to you to figure out :P | 08:36 |
| phlixi_o | inte[m] iirc you speak german, am i rite? | 08:36 |
| r0kk3rz | jolla wont be giving out instructions about that | 08:36 |
| louisdk2 | r0kk3rz, stephg I'm either waiting for a replay og making a seperate email adress just in case. | 08:36 |
| FIQ | ok so trying to do version --dup as a regular user gives "REFRESHING CACHE AND DOWNLOADING PACKAGES", then fails to connect because of lack of network, then "UPGRADE NOT COMPLETE - Retry 1 of 9" and does the same thing | 08:37 |
| r0kk3rz | FIQ: you have no wifi either? | 08:37 |
| FIQ | no | 08:37 |
| inte[m] | phlixi_o: öh, ja :) | 08:37 |
| r0kk3rz | well that wont work then | 08:37 |
| FIQ | ah | 08:37 |
| FIQ | I thought it just told version info of stuff or something | 08:38 |
| FIQ | well, it clearly isn't :P | 08:38 |
| r0kk3rz | nope | 08:38 |
| inte[m] | didn't consider my english that bad that you could figure that out so easily:) | 08:38 |
| FIQ | yeah I'll see what happens later when I do have wifi | 08:38 |
| FIQ | I guess | 08:38 |
| phlixi_o | inte[m] i reguglarly see "inte" on heise forum for each jolla/sailfish article | 08:38 |
| FIQ | can't see why it would only do a partial upgrade though | 08:38 |
| keithzg[m] | Inte: I just follwed the English instructions at https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-x/how-to/guide-one-noob-friendly-guide-xperia-x-t3590476 because my German is that bad ;) | 08:38 |
| pawky | so.. if google playstore isnt supported in any way, what is the official way to get any android apps into the phone??? | 08:39 |
| inte[m] | phlixi_o: ah hehe nice guess :) | 08:39 |
| FIQ | 3rd party apks? | 08:39 |
| abranson | pawky: aptoide store. should get installed with android support? | 08:39 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: install a marketplace of your choice from jolla store? | 08:39 |
| phlixi_o | inte[m] click that: http://sailfishmods.de/2017/07/howto-sony-xperia-x-teil-1-cda-drm-keys-bootloader/ :-) | 08:39 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: Aptiode is the official way. F-Droid is a good idea. | 08:39 |
| phlixi_o | (if you didnt already) | 08:39 |
| abranson | pawky: see 'marketplaces' section of the jolla store | 08:39 |
| pawky | abranson: yes, but it seems a bit fishy, and its NOT an official app from Jolla as far as I know | 08:40 |
| pawky | to my knowledge it just something someone put up there, or am I wrong? | 08:40 |
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| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: btw i tried the version --dup on my jolla yesterday but it failed due to a undefined symbol | 08:40 |
| pawky | keithzg[m]:oh, is it the officially promoted app store from Jolla, are you sure? | 08:41 |
| pketo | louisdk2: the sailfis X license is tied to the account and first xperia device you use that account on | 08:41 |
| Jettis | FIQ do you have tohkbd? you have to take it off while booting sailfish | 08:41 |
| FIQ | I do | 08:41 |
| FIQ | hmm, weird.. why? | 08:41 |
| FIQ | I did notice that booting took forever | 08:41 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: Android support is official, back in the day it was Yandex that was put up in the store officially, now I think it's indeed Aptiode, but F-Droid is arguably a better idea (it's only open source apps, so it's a LOT less sketchy). | 08:42 |
| FIQ | I will try | 08:42 |
| Jettis | dont know but thats what is said in tjc | 08:42 |
| phlixi_o | louisdk2: on the blog comments someone asked: Great! Just bought one. What if I need Sailfish X on two or more devices? | 08:42 |
| phlixi_o | louisdk2: and Jaymzz replyed: Congratulations! If you need the paid features, you need as many licenses to as you have devices. | 08:42 |
| FIQ | (also, tohkbd was no longer recognized either I noticed, but I figured it was just due to dodgy connectors... they have always been dodgy for me, just never bothered looking into it because I only use the jolla for tethering 99% of the time) | 08:42 |
| keithzg[m] | FIQ: Ah, yeah I had that exact problem, connman didn't work until I rebooted with my tohkbd off | 08:43 |
| pawky | keithzg[m]: the very reason one usually need the store for is to install bank apps etc.. | 08:43 |
| phlixi_o | louisdk2: not exactly if you want to switch devices though... but maybe they can say something | 08:43 |
| pawky | they dont come with F-droid ;-) | 08:43 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: YOu can track and install bank APKs and such from the Play Store indirectly using this app from F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/packages/fr.kwiatkowski.ApkTrack/ | 08:43 |
| louisdk2 | phlixi_o, I guess that #1 license will be tired to 1st activated device, #2 license to 2nd device and so on. | 08:44 |
| inte[m] | i think the xperia x supports usb-otg but does that also work with sailfishos, and maybe even for android-apps on alien dalvik? | 08:44 |
| keithzg[m] | (certainly if you're using a banking app it's probably a good idea to make sure to keep it up to date, hah!) | 08:44 |
| FIQ | Jettis: do you mean the entire cover or just the keyboard | 08:44 |
| FIQ | part | 08:44 |
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| phlixi_o | louisdk2 actually i am not sure, it just ruled out using one license on multiple devices.. could be that you are allowed to move your license from one to another device (and then no longer valid on first device) | 08:44 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: otg works with sailfish, no idea about dalvik integration | 08:44 |
| Jettis | the entire cover | 08:44 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: I doubt your bank's app is on anything other than the Play Store anyways ;) | 08:45 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: thats at least half cool :) | 08:45 |
| pawky | keithzg[m]: so.. how do I crank them in? | 08:45 |
| pawky | get the playstore apk from an Xperia image? | 08:46 |
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| inte[m] | id love to use a certain android app which would install on alien dalvik but relies on usb-otg | 08:46 |
| inte[m] | does not even need google services | 08:46 |
| inte[m] | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.jp.icom.rs_ms1a.menu | 08:46 |
| louisdk2 | phlixi_o, I'll wait for an official reply and if I want to buy Sailfish X prior to that I'll make a seperate account. | 08:46 |
| inte[m] | dont have an xperiax yet but i would surely instantly get one if that would work ;) | 08:47 |
| FIQ | Jettis: worked and nw it doesn't take forever to boot... do I have to do this each time or just this once? | 08:47 |
| FIQ | *now it didn't | 08:47 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: You either have to install all of Google Play Services and the Play Store (which will almost immediately cease working) or install the APKs through some other method (like the "ApkTrack" app I linked to from F-Droid) and hope that the app in question doesn't rely on Google Play Services. | 08:49 |
| Jettis | you have to do it every time... | 08:49 |
| inte[m] | keithzg: the icom app? | 08:49 |
| inte[m] | ah | 08:49 |
| inte[m] | got it | 08:49 |
| FIQ | hmmm | 08:50 |
| FIQ | sounds silly, but OK thanks | 08:50 |
| keithzg[m] | pawky: Frankly, you're probably better off using your bank's website. | 08:51 |
| pawky | keithzg[m]: so, things that worked nicelly with the original Jolla phone, will not work anymore on a Sony Xperia with Sailfish X? | 08:51 |
| inte[m] | i personally never do banking on my phone | 08:51 |
| inte[m] | not even on the jolla | 08:52 |
| keithzg[m] | Heh I never remember Android apps working perfectly nicely on my Jolla (although some definitely did) | 08:52 |
| keithzg[m] | Eh, my phone is almost certainly more secure than my bank's computer systems. Hell, my phone's passphrase is longer than my bank lets me set my login password :P | 08:53 |
| pawky | Well.. I do, and thats why I am trying to migrate from Jolla -> Xperia Android -> Xperia Sailfish X having all apps that did run on the old Jolla also working on the new | 08:53 |
| phlixi_o | keithzg[m] i use exactly one android app regulalry, and it works like a charm (threema, they even sell the apk on their website :-) ) | 08:53 |
| keithzg[m] | Well, pawky, if you did steps to get Android apps working for you before and it worked, just do that again :) | 08:53 |
| pawky | To my knowledge, the new alien dalvik was supposed to be better than the old... | 08:53 |
| pawky | keithzg[m]: aha.. and I used playstore... :-/ | 08:54 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: marginally. 4.1->4.4.4 | 08:54 |
| pawky | which everybody tells me doesnt work any more... :-( | 08:54 |
| Nicd- | still stuck on 4.4? damn | 08:55 |
| keithzg[m] | phlixi_o: If I was able to use a SailfishOS device as my main phone, these days the main Android app I'd need would be Signal, and I'd like Riot.im as well. Luckily, neither needs Play Services 🙂 And considering the Matrix integration planned for the Librem phone which is intended to run Plasma Mobile, hopefully we'll be getting a native QML app for Riot.im sometime soon anyways! | 08:56 |
| phlixi_o | keithzg i thought matrix is dead | 08:57 |
| keithzg[m] | phlixi_o: Naw, not at all. Hell, I'm talking to you via it right now :) | 08:57 |
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| phlixi_o | keithzg[m]: https://matrix.org/blog/2017/07/07/a-call-to-arms-supporting-matrix/ | 08:57 |
| r0kk3rz | phlixi_o: its open sauce, takes more than running out of funding to kill it | 08:57 |
| keithzg[m] | I mean . . . that's not exactly their most recent blogpost ;) | 08:57 |
| keithzg[m] | Yeah, that's exactly why I like Matrix/Riot, can't just be arbitrarily killed by a single company dying or turning the lights off :) | 08:59 |
| keithzg[m] | Oh interesting, looks like they got an Ubuntu Touch version running relatively easily: https://matrix.org/blog/2017/09/28/experiments-with-matrix-on-the-purism-librem5-starring-ubports-and-nheko/ | 09:00 |
| keithzg[m] | The only big problem seems to have been the old version of Qt. So, err, when's SailfishOS getting Qt 5.9? ;) | 09:00 |
| r0kk3rz | keithzg[m]: someone needs to wrap a qml UI around quassel, and thats about it really | 09:00 |
| r0kk3rz | not quassel, quaternion | 09:01 |
| keithzg[m] | r0kk3rz: Not a bad plan, although I seem to remember people trying and sputtering out on doing that all the way back to the N900 days! | 09:01 |
| keithzg[m] | Huh, quaternion? Never heard of that one | 09:02 |
| r0kk3rz | its a desktop matrix client | 09:03 |
| inte[m] | we had this yesterday. there is a dropbox-link to the matriski matrix client on tjc | 09:03 |
| r0kk3rz | but all the magic is in https://github.com/QMatrixClient/libqmatrixclient | 09:03 |
| inte[m] | that does work | 09:03 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: but theres no sauce! | 09:03 |
| inte[m] | yes | 09:03 |
| inte[m] | but the client is somewhat useable | 09:03 |
| r0kk3rz | how can i work on it if theres no sauce! | 09:03 |
| inte[m] | true | 09:04 |
| inte[m] | you could work on the tensor client though | 09:04 |
| keithzg[m] | Ah, I see I see | 09:04 |
| inte[m] | i guess matriski is also a fork of tensor | 09:04 |
| inte[m] | tensor dropped sailfish support but v0.1 did support sfos | 09:04 |
| inte[m] | maybe it can be reimplemented | 09:05 |
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| r0kk3rz | the latest tensor uses that lib i just linked | 09:05 |
| inte[m] | but if you want a client NOW, to work with it, matriski is ok | 09:05 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: yeah i know matriski uses this lib as well | 09:05 |
| inte[m] | it a lib though, not a useable client | 09:06 |
| r0kk3rz | obviously. | 09:06 |
| inte[m] | maybe its possible to write a simple pythong-gui and incorporate that lib | 09:06 |
| inte[m] | python | 09:06 |
| inte[m] | in terms of keeping it simple :) | 09:07 |
| r0kk3rz | whaaaa. thats not keeping things simple at all | 09:07 |
| inte[m] | regarding matrix: i like i was able to still register the "inte" nick on the matrix.org server | 09:08 |
| inte[m] | appears to be barely used | 09:08 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: im not so fluent in other languages though :) | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | I just went the crazy mile and registered keithzg . . . on riot.keithzg.ca ;) | 09:08 |
| keithzg[m] | Speaking of I should probably update my Matrix server . . . | 09:08 |
| inte[m] | keithzg: hehe | 09:08 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: QML is easy. python apps on sailfish use QML too | 09:10 |
| * keithzg[m] of course set up auto-updates for security updates, but didn't do so for non-security updates and there was a matrix-synapse update earlier this month | 09:10 | |
| inte[m] | yeah ok, qml would be feasible | 09:10 |
| inte[m] | but im not getting into c++ now. i know some c, thats enough :) | 09:11 |
| keithzg[m] | r0kk3rz: Is pyotherside still the preferred method, or has that changed? | 09:11 |
| r0kk3rz | keithzg[m]: i believe so | 09:11 |
| keithzg[m] | inte: If you know some c, you know more about c++ than I did when I wrote my first QML/c++ app, a few years ago now for work! Took me about 30min to make a QML/python app that did the job, but it was going to be sent out to Windows-using clients , so I rewrote it with C++ . . . which took about a week :P | 09:13 |
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| keithzg[m] | (Probably would have taken even longer, but the Qt documentation is pretty damn good---at least compared to Microsoft's Visual Studio C++ documentation, which is the main comparison point I have from my work, and dear lord is that awful) | 09:17 |
| inte[m] | keithzg: i thought python was running fine on windows? | 09:17 |
| inte[m] | i rather use it for scripting and statistics stuff | 09:17 |
| keithzg[m] | inte: Oh sure, you can run Python on Windows, but it's trickier to package that alongside your application for random customers than to just use C++ and have Qt Creator compile it all together. | 09:18 |
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| inte[m] | you could still pack it. i think there is some kind of a binary format to pack python apps | 09:19 |
| inte[m] | havent used it though | 09:19 |
| keithzg[m] | There are at least two, and I've used both at my work :) | 09:19 |
| keithzg[m] | Couldn't find an easy way to do that yet have the QML app actually interface with it though. | 09:19 |
| inte[m] | oh i see thats bad | 09:20 |
| keithzg[m] | And I was like "hell, I should probably learn a bit of C++ at some point anyways" ;) | 09:20 |
| inte | sure, if you do that for your living its absolutely worth it :) | 09:21 |
| keithzg[m] | Luckily the other programs my work ships that I have stumbled into ownership of are just commandline programs and thus can just be compiled to exes. | 09:21 |
| keithzg[m] | inte: Yup yup, paid training essentially :) | 09:21 |
| inte | yes thats what i ment | 09:21 |
| keithzg[m] | pyinstaller (despite the name making it sound like it's for installing, rather than just bundling) seems like the currently-running project. The older one was py2exe, but that doesn't even work on the last few versions of Python 3 unfortunately. | 09:22 |
| inte[m] | but no support for gui-apps, right? | 09:23 |
| inte | mh. https://wiki.qt.io/Packaging_PySide_applications_on_Windows | 09:24 |
| inte | and the link to the pyinstaller howto leads to nowhere... | 09:24 |
| keithzg[m] | py2exe definitely didn't; only just ported the main program I inherited to PyInstaller so haven't taken much more than a surface "oh, that was a dead-easy switchover!" glance at it but interestingly enough their website mentions PyQt compatibility | 09:24 |
| keithzg[m] | Well that wiki page appears to be from 2011, haha | 09:25 |
| keithzg[m] | All these mentions of Qt4 :P | 09:25 |
| inte[m] | yes | 09:25 |
| inte[m] | and qt4 is eol for long | 09:25 |
| inte[m] | PyInstaller bundles a Python application and all its dependencies into a single package. The user can run the packaged app without installing a Python interpreter or any modules. PyInstaller supports Python 2.7 and Python 3.3+, and correctly bundles the major Python packages such as numpy, PyQt, Django, wxPython, and others. | 09:26 |
| inte[m] | that is what they say at https://pyinstaller.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ | 09:26 |
| keithzg[m] | Yeah, I definitely might try and take advantage of that if I'm ever directed to write a GUI app for work again. Python and QML are just so much more pleasant than any of the alternatives :D | 09:34 |
| keithzg[m] | (Had a similar experience trying to take a silly little QML app I wrote for myself for SailfishOS years back and trying to make it into an Android app . . . I quickly gave up :P) | 09:35 |
| inte[m] | i thought that was possible too? | 09:36 |
| keithzg[m] | Oh it is, although it was much . . . jankier back then than it is now, heh | 09:36 |
| keithzg[m] | These days I'd probably just use something like Kirigami and call it a day | 09:37 |
| inte[m] | if it wasnt c# xamarin could be nice as well | 09:37 |
| inte[m] | for the cross platform stuff | 09:37 |
| inte[m] | or electron/nodejs | 09:38 |
| inte[m] | even though i personally do not like the webstyle of those apps | 09:38 |
| r0kk3rz | c#/wpf is the best thing about xamarin, everything else is fairly broken :) | 09:38 |
| keithzg[m] | Hmm yeah how easily do electron apps compile for SailfishOS? I agree, native apps are a better bet if possible, but that actually opens up a lot of possibilities. | 09:39 |
| keithzg[m] | (The Signal "desktop" client as a SailfishOS app, for instance) | 09:39 |
| inte[m] | for c# id rather go with windows forms since these apps could usually be run in mono as well | 09:39 |
| r0kk3rz | bleh winforms, no thanks | 09:39 |
| inte[m] | i dont think electron apps compile for sfos at all :) | 09:39 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: well its a portable app then | 09:40 |
| * keithzg[m] wishes for C#/WPF, all the programmers at work are stuck for legacy reasons on Win32 . . . | 09:40 | |
| inte[m] | through mono | 09:40 |
| inte[m] | almost full .net 4.5 support | 09:40 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah gui apps with mono is kinda a non-starter really, maybe MS will get around to porting wpf | 09:41 |
| inte[m] | but why wpf and not windows forms? | 09:41 |
| inte[m] | i barely used either | 09:41 |
| inte[m] | its only the gui though | 09:41 |
| r0kk3rz | WPF is a much more modern way of making UIs, its declarative like QML is | 09:41 |
| inte[m] | ok, but that doesnt render wf totally unuseable | 09:42 |
| r0kk3rz | no, but it still sucks | 09:42 |
| inte[m] | i guess it depends on the complexity of the gui how much wf sucks :) | 09:43 |
| r0kk3rz | imo high level languages suit UI programming a lot better than lower level stuff like winforms | 09:44 |
| inte[m] | i rather stay with python anyways :) | 09:44 |
| r0kk3rz | you tell the engine how everything is connected, and it sorts out the state at any given point | 09:44 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: are there no interface designer tools that somehow click the code together for you? | 09:44 |
| r0kk3rz | whaaa? | 09:45 |
| inte[m] | i mean like in qt creator | 09:45 |
| inte[m] | have no experience with wf | 09:46 |
| r0kk3rz | ive not used the qtc designer, but surely its just about plonking controls on a canvas? | 09:46 |
| r0kk3rz | which is usually the worst way to construct a UI if you want it to scale at all | 09:46 |
| inte[m] | i only found it nice to run a windows app with mono since the app was actually build win-only and the developer wasnt even aware it would run in mono :) | 09:46 |
| r0kk3rz | indeed MS is making good improments in that area | 09:47 |
| r0kk3rz | *improvements | 09:47 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: ok forgive me for my ignorance :) | 09:47 |
| inte[m] | im not doing gui programming at work and currently im already happy if things work | 09:48 |
| inte[m] | sdrsharp is one example | 09:49 |
| inte[m] | very nice sdr app for use with e.g. rtl chipsets | 09:49 |
| inte[m] | i recently bought an sdr kit from china fo 15$ which can receive shortwave radio | 09:50 |
| inte[m] | was a good soldering practice but its fun :) | 09:50 |
| inte[m] | given the fact that prebuild kits are available for less than 25$ it was of course not worth to solder it yourself, but it was fun indeed :) | 09:51 |
| inte[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_lNfEL7kc | 09:52 |
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| inte[m] | this guy has not the greatest smd soldering skills but yeah the instructions are quite useable :) | 09:53 |
| sailfishmods | .... and still no Android support, MS Exchange and text prediciton in my account :( | 10:09 |
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| pawky | Well, for those who want to know.. I just cut out the .apk file from the Xperia android backup and installed it nicely on Sailfish :-) | 10:26 |
| pawky | thus thta is, even though a bit awkward, another way to cram in android apps :-) | 10:27 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: what apk? | 10:27 |
| pawky | in this case a bank app.. | 10:27 |
| pawky | some_bank.apk file :-) or am I spelling it wrong? | 10:28 |
| pawky | What I meant was, if one (like I) converts their already in use Xperia from Android to Sailfish, they could just happily rip out the .apk files from the backup and try to install them that way, at least for starters.. | 10:29 |
| pawky | if one can not find these files in the ordinary backup, using Titanium Backup to do a backup to ones SD card, before doing the conversion will by example nicely give you the files you need. | 10:31 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah if you can get the apk files and they're compatible with 4.4.4 it'll be fine | 10:32 |
| r0kk3rz | and they dont need gapps | 10:32 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: yeah, i just meant, an android backup could also be your source to them, for starters | 10:34 |
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| phlixi_o | the apks are downloaded while installing (obviously, lol) and are kept, there is absolutely no need to use a bloaty of any sort. you can just copy the apk file of any app on android | 10:55 |
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| phlixi_o | bloaty app* | 10:56 |
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| phlixi_o | they are in data/app | 10:58 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah get rid of those bloaty UIs, someone in #purism asked if someone was making an ncurses UI for librem-5 :) | 10:59 |
| phlixi_o | and later versions it is /data/app/your-package-name-1/base.apk | 10:59 |
| phlixi_o | its not about UI | 10:59 |
| phlixi_o | when i wanted to do this, a few years ago, (get an APK that is only distributed via play store) everyone yelled at me to install this app or that app. which where just as fishy as alle the webservices that offer to download apks for you | 11:00 |
| phlixi_o | idk, es explorer or whatever. its a huge pile of bloat, and comes with loads of bullshit, while i only wanted the apk | 11:01 |
| pawky | But am I the only one who would see it benificial to have som UI to configure iptables on the phone? | 11:02 |
| pawky | like AFwall in android? | 11:02 |
| pawky | does security come more second to Sailfish user even compared to Android? | 11:04 |
| phlixi_o | for what do you need a firewall without beeing a server? | 11:06 |
| pawky | to limit what your local softwares can do | 11:06 |
| phlixi_o | if there are no ports listened, you dont need a wall | 11:06 |
| pawky | because scetchy apps.. do scetchy things... | 11:06 |
| pawky | and thats what AFwall makes shure you know about and can limit | 11:07 |
| phlixi_o | you can not protect yourself from executables you run | 11:07 |
| pawky | ehh.. yes you can | 11:07 |
| phlixi_o | practically not | 11:07 |
| pawky | philosophically? | 11:08 |
| pawky | to my knowledge android apps are java... | 11:08 |
| pawky | and in android (at least) you can set what application ID has the right to do what on the network. | 11:09 |
| phlixi_o | and how is that related` | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | philosophically its quite strange that people are OK with running sketchy software if they have a button to press to make them feel safe | 11:09 |
| r0kk3rz | its like touching the privacy settings on facebook | 11:10 |
| phlixi_o | hehe r0kk3rz :-) | 11:10 |
| phlixi_o | well said | 11:10 |
| r0kk3rz | you *feel* like you're in control, but you probably arent still | 11:10 |
| pawky | i dont follow you, if I controll the network routing, as root, then no matter what a userland app wants to do, it will not be able to connect to anything. | 11:10 |
| pawky | unless we are talking about apps that uses exploits etc.. | 11:11 |
| pawky | doing privilege escalation | 11:11 |
| phlixi_o | of course malidcous apps will run exploits | 11:11 |
| pawky | well.. these do not have Sailfish as target and will most certainly fail... | 11:12 |
| pawky | hence thats why you want them to run under Sailfish | 11:12 |
| phlixi_o | ? | 11:12 |
| phlixi_o | i did not ask for anything to run on sailfish | 11:12 |
| phlixi_o | ...in this conversation :d | 11:12 |
| r0kk3rz | you can rationalise it any way you want, you're still running software you do not trust | 11:13 |
| r0kk3rz | who knows what it really does? | 11:13 |
| phlixi_o | i just pointed out, its not neded to install a shady/fishy app to export apks of installed apps | 11:13 |
| pawky | phlixi_o: not YOU but that why ... one wants to run them in alien dalvik under sailfish... better? | 11:14 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: well.. i do know what they are doing... i just dont know what they are communicating. | 11:15 |
| pawky | I mean if a notepad app, tells me it also want network access.. then its pretty obvious they want to send some interesting stuff back to the creator.. so.. you just block it. | 11:15 |
| phlixi_o | for that reason i prefer "adb shell pm list packages" and "adb pull full/directory/of/the.apk" to get an apk of an app with good reputation, over installing an shady app, to have a button for "send apk via bluetooth" | 11:15 |
| phlixi_o | no, you just dont install it | 11:16 |
| pawky | Android on the Xperia, by example continuously had an "ExtendedBootLocker" function that constantly connects to servers in the US. | 11:16 |
| pawky | so.. do I wont it, nope... hence I block it in the FW... tada... | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | its android, of course it constantly connects to servers in the US | 11:17 |
| pawky | not of course.. but yes.. | 11:17 |
| phlixi_o | of course of course | 11:17 |
| pawky | then again.. why would the ExtendedBootLocker want to do this... and why doesnt anybody know why it does so? | 11:17 |
| phlixi_o | its android, its existance is to spy on you | 11:17 |
| pawky | exactly... hence a need to limit what goes over the network | 11:18 |
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| pawky | many apps, you dont even know wether it does connect to something... a FW would give you this info :-) | 11:18 |
| r0kk3rz | its an illusion of control at best, thats my point | 11:19 |
| phlixi_o | so does tcpdump | 11:19 |
| pawky | so, whenever I install a new app, I dont give it any network access, and start logging. | 11:19 |
| pawky | after a while I know what it does | 11:19 |
| phlixi_o | after w hile you think you know what it does | 11:19 |
| pawky | phlixi_o: yes.. and do we have tcpdump with a UI available?... and when using tcpdump its already to late.. | 11:19 |
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| phlixi_o | but, whatever.. time for lunch :D | 11:19 |
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| phlixi_o | you know what a malicous app could do? it could try to make an unsuspicious connection, and when refused, act nicely. | 11:21 |
| phlixi_o | realworld example: wannacry | 11:21 |
| mornfall | you mean malware authors aren't complete morons? :p | 11:22 |
| pawky | ou don't seem to be able to format and mount any exfat sd card on Sailfish X :-( | 11:22 |
| pawky | mornfall: meaning? | 11:22 |
| inte[m] | maybe all so win ransomware is sponsored by cloud providers to push their services, who knows ;-) | 11:23 |
| pawky | Does anyone trust the sailfish store more??? | 11:23 |
| pawky | am I the only one being cautious about what the apps are doing after installing, and want to be able to monitor their internet connectivity through a UI app, such as one configuring iptables? | 11:24 |
| pawky | The worlds end is near.... | 11:24 |
| mornfall | yep, the permission system on sfos is, well, isn't | 11:25 |
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| r0kk3rz | monitoring is fine, so you know what to nuke from orbit | 11:26 |
| r0kk3rz | but continuing to run things when you've already been tipped off, is well... strange | 11:27 |
| inte[m] | im wondering if this would be a good start: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-Xperia-X-F5121-32GB-Black-Unlocked-SIM-FREE-12M-Warranty-Good-Condition-/202006354119?epid=222424830&hash=item2f088458c7:g:OcAAAOSwQVZZgfx9 | 11:29 |
| inte[m] | price seems fair | 11:30 |
| inte[m] | the dualsim version is not support yet, not even unofficially through patches, right? | 11:30 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: well.. it all depends upon if one knows what it tries to send. | 11:30 |
| pawky | which I could check once I know it does send things, like with tcpdump... | 11:30 |
| pawky | inte[m] on jakibakis linux install page he mentiones the dual card... | 11:32 |
| pawky | it sounded it might be doable.. | 11:32 |
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| inte[m] | which page are you talking about? duckduckgo wouldnt find it | 11:33 |
| inte[m] | i guess i rather go for the single sim variant. its cheaper and less hacking | 11:35 |
| inte[m] | what do you people think, is there anything wrong with the ebay offer? | 11:36 |
| inte[m] | new its still 299.- € at Aldi | 11:36 |
| pawky | inte[m]: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1536424 | 11:37 |
| inte[m] | thx | 11:37 |
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| inte[m] | well isnt that the android firmware? | 11:41 |
| inte[m] | nice to be able to flash that but... makes no sense if dualsim is not supported in the jolla gui | 11:41 |
| inte[m] | i know, its supported in jolla c | 11:41 |
| inte[m] | anyways | 11:41 |
| inte[m] | i guess i go for the ebay offer which is single sim anyways | 11:42 |
| pawky | inte[m]: the instructions? | 11:42 |
| inte[m] | they link to a sony image page which is android | 11:43 |
| pawky | no... in the end "Finally reboot your phone and enjoy Sailfish OS on your Phone!" | 11:43 |
| inte[m] | ah ok | 11:43 |
| pawky | inte[m]: you need to have the right version of Android and install it fully before changing to sailfish | 11:43 |
| inte[m] | so its flashing android first and than install sfos above | 11:44 |
| pawky | you also NEED to run it... until you come to the main screen. | 11:44 |
| pawky | and THEN flash the sailfish.. or else, you can read in the chat log how it went for me.. ;-) | 11:44 |
| pawky | yes.. | 11:44 |
| inte[m] | but i dare the sfos-release which would be installed above the image does not support dualsims | 11:45 |
| pawky | best ist to read their official install instructions | 11:45 |
| inte[m] | sure | 11:45 |
| pawky | i kind of skimmed through it and ended up in several interesting scenarios | 11:45 |
| inte[m] | a friend of mine who also ordered the tablet back then will be happy to sell me a voucher :) | 11:45 |
| pawky | if you have windows somewhere.. do it with that machine | 11:45 |
| pawky | inte[m]: :-) | 11:45 |
| pawky | i bough mine on the voucher... | 11:46 |
| inte[m] | and i could borrow his windows computer to install sfos :) | 11:46 |
| inte[m] | win-win | 11:46 |
| pawky | i actually still got money left even after a refund and a voucher. | 11:46 |
| inte[m] | i actually received the tablet :) | 11:46 |
| inte[m] | yeah, i guess he still has about 150€ left | 11:46 |
| pawky | inte[m]: I tried to follow the instructions i sent to you, but when kind of loosing direction, i went for the official install first, so at least i could see it all worked | 11:46 |
| inte[m] | jey | 11:47 |
| pawky | i had some issues with the fastboot driver | 11:47 |
| pawky | the machine was running win7, but the driver from Sonys download link wasnt correct | 11:47 |
| inte[m] | so, anybody has doubts about the ebay offer? apart from that those devices are not brandnew but refurbished | 11:47 |
| pawky | i fiddled a bit, then succeeded to get the android adb driver in.. and that one worked | 11:47 |
| inte[m] | pawky: ah im sure ill be able to figure that out | 11:47 |
| inte[m] | eventually, there is irc ;) | 11:48 |
| pawky | inte[m]: i know.. im just charing... | 11:48 |
| inte[m] | sure thx :) | 11:48 |
| pawky | i ended up going to bed like 2:00 becaus i realised i HAD to get the phone working, it is my only alarm clock :-D | 11:48 |
| inte[m] | haha | 11:48 |
| pawky | inte[m]: are you wondering about the price? | 11:49 |
| pawky | let me check | 11:49 |
| inte[m] | well and one would always want to have thinks done of course | 11:49 |
| inte[m] | the price seems fair, 155€ including 12m warranty | 11:49 |
| inte[m] | and free shipping | 11:49 |
| inte[m] | i love the brexit, shopping in uk is so cheap nowadays SCNR | 11:50 |
| pawky | the price range for a new one (in the north of europe, is about €210 - €370 | 11:50 |
| inte[m] | new for 210€?? | 11:50 |
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| inte[m] | where did you find that? | 11:50 |
| pawky | https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=3555407 | 11:50 |
| inte[m] | what is .nu? | 11:51 |
| pawky | oh.. did i write the wrong phone? | 11:52 |
| pawky | thats a country .. ;-) | 11:52 |
| inte[m] | no | 11:52 |
| pawky | nu means now in our language | 11:52 |
| inte[m] | i was only wondering about the language | 11:52 |
| inte[m] | is that finish? | 11:52 |
| pawky | so buying domains from .nu is quite popular | 11:52 |
| inte[m] | hehe i see | 11:53 |
| pawky | its some atoll somewhere | 11:53 |
| pawky | but let me check some more | 11:53 |
| inte[m] | ah, swedish right? | 11:53 |
| pawky | this is what I paid... https://www.elgiganten.se/product/mobil-tele-gps/mobiltelefoner/SONXPXBK/sony-xperia-x-smartphone-grafit-svart | 11:53 |
| pawky | ~280€ | 11:54 |
| inte[m] | ok 2190sek is about 230€ | 11:54 |
| pawky | inte[m]: yeah.. i think so.. but thats a net store.. they usually put products up to lure people in, but then they are "out of stock" | 11:56 |
| pawky | so, dont take it to literarily .. | 11:56 |
| inte[m] | ah i see | 11:56 |
| pawky | i believe ~280€ is standard for the phone, in real life | 11:57 |
| inte[m] | cheapes offer i found in germany is 269€ | 11:57 |
| pawky | (in a store) | 11:57 |
| pawky | but you need to have the right frequencies | 11:57 |
| inte[m] | so i tend to go for the refurbished one | 11:57 |
| pawky | depending upon where you live | 11:57 |
| inte[m] | well, its from uk, should be fine | 11:57 |
| pawky | and what carrier you use.. | 11:57 |
| pawky | a lot of lock in. | 11:57 |
| inte[m] | sure | 11:57 |
| pawky | double check! | 11:57 |
| inte[m] | but european frequencies should differ too much | 11:58 |
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| pawky | it might work, but only one band, it migh work in you country but not your provider etc | 11:58 |
| pawky | no.. but they do differ | 11:58 |
| inte[m] | there used to be some lower frequencies utilised in the north of sweden/finland/norway i guess but i dont expect too much problems between uk and germany | 11:59 |
| inte[m] | at least, im not aware about any | 11:59 |
| pawky | just check... | 11:59 |
| pawky | its for free on the internet ;-) | 11:59 |
| inte[m] | yeah, i didnt really follow the lte stuff recently | 11:59 |
| pawky | i did some checking because i wanted to buy the aqua. | 11:59 |
| pawky | I ended up not doing so because of the frequencies | 11:59 |
| pawky | it might have worked, but i would be limited to where depending on where in the country etc.. | 12:00 |
| inte[m] | because in sweden there are different frequencies in use? | 12:00 |
| ender| | i bought my xperia x from germany, was 292€ with shipping | 12:00 |
| pawky | inte[m]: depending upon countries some frequencies overlapp, and some dont | 12:00 |
| ender| | (there were several cheaper options, but they didn't ship to Slovenia) | 12:00 |
| ender| | https://geizhals.eu/sony-xperia-x-schwarz-a1397330.html https://geizhals.eu/sony-xperia-x-weiss-a1397894.html | 12:01 |
| pawky | one would prefere to have the most possible frequencies available, especially in your country. thus if you would have one phone that supports one LTE frequency, and another one that supports two, you are probably better of with the latter... | 12:02 |
| inte[m] | according to: https://www.4g.co.uk/4g-frequencies-uk-need-know/ | 12:08 |
| inte[m] | they use the same bands as in germany (3,7,8,20) | 12:08 |
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| pawky | but as yo unotice, some only use the 2100, and some also use the 2600 | 12:09 |
| pawky | some phones only support one of these frequencies... thats why its good to check | 12:09 |
| pawky | i think the intex aqua supported 2300 (india) and 2600, and then yo couldnt use that phone with Three by example.. | 12:09 |
| inte[m] | well, id assume that the european version would support all | 12:09 |
| pawky | :-) | 12:10 |
| ender| | https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/O81Bj/sony-xperia-x-lte-a-f5121-sony-suzu-ss#frequencies | 12:10 |
| pawky | ok.. i give up, i just meant its good to check... its a frequencie swamp out there.. | 12:10 |
| inte[m] | well, since volte is not supported by the jolla yet its less important anyways | 12:10 |
| inte[m] | or are there any plans on that? | 12:10 |
| inte[m] | pawky: no, thank you | 12:10 |
| pawky | and if bying from Amazon, you might not know if you really get the UK version, or one imported from another country.. like india | 12:10 |
| inte[m] | you are of course right | 12:10 |
| pawky | or china.. | 12:11 |
| pawky | and thats why you need to check.. | 12:11 |
| inte[m] | sure those phones could be a problem | 12:11 |
| pawky | the countries might be compaible.. the phones might not | 12:11 |
| inte[m] | well the offer has 12m warranty | 12:11 |
| inte[m] | i can still send it back if it doesnt work | 12:11 |
| pawky | because you can buy the intex aqua from amazon.co.uk by example.. | 12:11 |
| pawky | but its still a 2300 2600 phone | 12:11 |
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| pawky | a funny remark.. when connecting to my Sailfish X using MTP: one of the folder goes "Intex Aqua Fish"... duh? | 12:12 |
| pawky | (the camera folder) | 12:13 |
| inte[m] | according to http://de.gsmchoice.com/de/katalog/sony/xperiax/Sony-Xperia-X.html | 12:14 |
| inte[m] | the f5121 should support all bands | 12:14 |
| pawky | i doubt they would in all countries... because of restrictions.. thats why its so hard to certify phones in all countries. But you are probably right, Sony has the cash to pull through such a thing ;-) | 12:15 |
| inte[m] | well, its all software defined | 12:16 |
| inte[m] | so its easy to block bands in certain countries | 12:16 |
| pawky | it wasnt in the Intex Aqua as far as i know.. | 12:16 |
| inte[m] | like with wifi channels, e.g. in japan | 12:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i wonder what magical antenna design they used for that | 12:17 |
| pawky | because people who bought the phone being frustrated about the limited bands, didnt succeed to change it | 12:17 |
| inte[m] | oh, o2 support lte2600 in germany so the intex should work here | 12:17 |
| pawky | :-) | 12:17 |
| mornfall | you probably don't want the intex, it's pretty crummy | 12:18 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: those frequencies are not too far apart | 12:18 |
| inte[m] | mornfall: no, and it has become expensive | 12:19 |
| inte[m] | especially now, when the xperia x is available | 12:19 |
| r0kk3rz | inte[m]: the antenna design on aqua fish / jolla c were different | 12:19 |
| r0kk3rz | i presume they did that for a reason | 12:19 |
| inte[m] | r0kk3rz: sure but only because the intex doesnt support the lower bands at all | 12:19 |
| inte[m] | the intex was not build with the european markets in mind | 12:20 |
| r0kk3rz | why would you make two SKUs when one will cover it? | 12:20 |
| inte[m] | maybe its cheaper if you dont need the lower bands | 12:21 |
| inte[m] | and better | 12:21 |
| inte[m] | the swr is surely better in monoband antennas | 12:21 |
| inte[m] | there is always loss if you need a tuner | 12:21 |
| inte[m] | but you can do multiband | 12:22 |
| inte[m] | its always a compromise | 12:22 |
| inte[m] | depending on your needs | 12:23 |
| inte[m] | you could do 80m with a short vertical | 12:23 |
| inte[m] | but dont expect a good performance | 12:23 |
| inte[m] | so, if you only need a certain band in your market you would rather focus on that | 12:24 |
| inte[m] | its much easier | 12:24 |
| inte[m] | if you focus the worldwide market, you go for the compromise | 12:25 |
| inte[m] | https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/O81Bj/sony-xperia-x-lte-a-f5121-sony-suzu-ss | 12:26 |
| inte[m] | ah, interesting | 12:28 |
| inte[m] | there ARE different versions of sony phones, like the xperia x performance (https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/OyEJD/sony-xperia-x-performance-td-lte-502so-sony-dora-ss) vs. https://www.frequencycheck.com/models/GJq9r/sony-xperia-x-performance-td-lte-so-04h-sony-dora-ss | 12:29 |
| inte[m] | however, there is only a single f5121 modell listed which supports all bands | 12:29 |
| inte[m] | i didnt find anything about a country-specific version of the f5121 so i guess there aren't any | 12:33 |
| inte[m] | and I'd presume it would be also mentioned on wikipedia if there were any: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Xperia_X | 12:34 |
| ender| | i ordered mine from germany, the only thing was that it offered german language first | 12:35 |
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| phlixi_o | has anyone running SX on the F5122? | 13:07 |
| inte[m] | ups | 13:10 |
| inte[m] | https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-collecting-user-data-without-permission-806579/ | 13:10 |
| Tomo | yeah, using OP2 and that made me sad :( | 13:10 |
| Tomo | compared to other android OEMs, i thought they are more sensible than that shit | 13:11 |
| inte[m] | well this could help: https://www.chrisdcmoore.co.uk/post/oneplus-analytics/ | 13:11 |
| inte[m] | at least it seems possible to uninstall the device manager without rooting | 13:12 |
| Tomo | removable, yes.. but OP respecting users, not so much | 13:12 |
| inte[m] | its android after all, everything is logged by google anyways scnr | 13:12 |
| Tomo | true | 13:12 |
| SQUelcher | I hate being tracked, but it's really hard nowadays. | 13:13 |
| r0kk3rz | s/really hard/impossible | 13:14 |
| inte[m] | just use the do-not-track function in your browser hehe | 13:14 |
| Tomo | >:D | 13:14 |
| SQUelcher | I've used a Nokia E90 until it fell apart. Then another E90, then another one, until i switched to Jolla ;) | 13:14 |
| SQUelcher | inte[m]: That sounds quite easy! Let's do this! ;) | 13:15 |
| Tomo | using obscure hardware which nobody gives a shit about is a great way to not get tracked but a bit too much to ask :D | 13:15 |
| inte[m] | well, doesnt this make traking even easier | 13:15 |
| inte[m] | ? | 13:15 |
| inte[m] | like with obscure browser extensions? | 13:16 |
| SQUelcher | inte[m]: Depends on who is tracking you.. | 13:16 |
| r0kk3rz | tracking has invaded the real world, it doesnt matter what devices you use | 13:17 |
| phlixi_o | id say there are different level of tracking | 13:18 |
| phlixi_o | so its not totally doesnt matter | 13:18 |
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| inte[m] | in terms of mobile phones a simple phone running osmcombb is probably the only solution but... | 13:18 |
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| Tomo | yeah obviously whatever hardware you use you can still be tracked via the cell network.. but i meant using for example E90 excludes you from vendor's tracking since Nokia/Microsoft for sure ain't running a data collection practice for such old devices | 13:19 |
| inte[m] | anyways | 13:19 |
| Tomo | well not for sure but they cba i'd guess | 13:20 |
| inte[m] | got to go | 13:20 |
| inte[m] | by | 13:20 |
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| M4rtinK | Tomo: yeah, why make it easy for people who want to track you | 13:20 |
| r0kk3rz | its a lost battle, just accept it and go on with your life | 13:20 |
| M4rtinK | I think this is a very bad idea | 13:20 |
| SQUelcher | I've bought a Motorola Dumbphone which is osmocombb-compatible a while ago, but i can't find it anymore.. | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK | I think one should at least try to do something about it where possible | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: you think you're making a difference? really? | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK | well, actually yes | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | whatever you need to tell yourself :) | 13:22 |
| M4rtinK | if more people use offline map rendering/routing/POI search based on OSM Scout Server + modRana | 13:22 |
| r0kk3rz | yes if only the whole world suddenly changed, thats vegan thinking | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK | they are not feeding their location data to google and other geodata service providers with questionable privacy policies | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK | (even though this is basically just a side effect of being able to navigate without internet connection) | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK | how I see it is that a bunch of people are trying to profit from peoples private data, including mine | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK | which is pretty morally shady | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK | so I don't want to make it easy for them where possible | 13:24 |
| Tomo | nah, collecting anonymous or even specific user identifying (but not actual identity connected) data is not morally shady in my opinion | 13:25 |
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| M4rtinK | Tomo: it seems pretty rude to me basically | 13:26 |
| Tomo | otherwise we wouldn't have such free (well it's not free if you consider the price of allowing large scale data gathering and ad optimization a price) services like google | 13:26 |
| M4rtinK | especially when you then sell it for profit to random third parties | 13:26 |
| Tomo | if the data is anonymous, who cares? | 13:27 |
| r0kk3rz | data is never anonymous | 13:27 |
| M4rtinK | well, sometimes it's anonymous | 13:27 |
| Tomo | if it's possible to connect it to real people when for example a rogue government takes over, different story | 13:27 |
| M4rtinK | sometimes it's "anonymous" | 13:27 |
| Tegu | anonymized data may still reveal a real identity | 13:27 |
| M4rtinK | there was a case of GPS device manufacturer selling "anonymized" data to third parties | 13:28 |
| M4rtinK | basically tracklogs | 13:28 |
| Tomo | i mean "anonymous" in the sense that's it's not legal to connect it to a real identity.. but in the wrong hands with enough resources it's not anonymous and that's the flipside | 13:28 |
| M4rtinK | they were totally anonymous | 13:28 |
| M4rtinK | some of them just went from home to work every day and back (and to any other places you have visited) | 13:28 |
| M4rtinK | totally anonymous for sure | 13:29 |
| M4rtinK | people wanting to profit on this sort of data don't want anonymous data | 13:29 |
| M4rtinK | so I don't really trust the ones selling it them to do it properly (they have a financial incentive not to do that right) | 13:30 |
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| pawky2 | Jolla Sailfish X, have I justs paid €50 for a few patches of the same os as in my Jolla phone, no extra cool features what so ever??? | 14:17 |
| r0kk3rz | well. yeah :) | 14:17 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: you paid for aliendalvik :) | 14:17 |
| sailfishmods | ...what is still missing in my account :/ | 14:18 |
| r0kk3rz | actually you even lost a cool feature, the TOH | 14:19 |
| pawky2 | but it has no new features what so ever, its more or less the same as on my jolla phone | 14:19 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky2: did you expect something else? | 14:19 |
| pawky2 | there is exactly nothing new anywhere to be found | 14:19 |
| pawky2 | yes, of course.... | 14:19 |
| r0kk3rz | like? | 14:20 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: I think it would be a lot worse if they added exclusive stuff while still updating the j1 | 14:20 |
| pawky2 | is this the time when I should list all cool features that doesn't yet exist? | 14:20 |
| r0kk3rz | no not a wishlist :P | 14:20 |
| pawky2 | jakibaki: i would say on the contrary, i could understand why I paid the €50 for new cool features | 14:21 |
| r0kk3rz | i mean literally, did you see anything anywhere which said you'd get new features :P | 14:21 |
| pawky2 | r0kk3rz: thats what I thought ;-) | 14:21 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: I paid for a officially supported build | 14:21 |
| pawky2 | so, now my old jolla will not get any updates any more? | 14:21 |
| r0kk3rz | the only announcements i saw were about missing features, not new ones :) | 14:21 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: Yes it will | 14:21 |
| pawky2 | so... what have I paid for?? | 14:21 |
| r0kk3rz | support for the xperia x? | 14:22 |
| r0kk3rz | proprietary licenses | 14:22 |
| pawky2 | actually.. HERE maps is gone | 14:22 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: A large part of the money you paid for the j1 was used for software-development... | 14:22 |
| pawky2 | , Google playstore is not installable... | 14:22 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: yes it is | 14:22 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: Jolla-C play-store guides work | 14:22 |
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| pawky2 | jakibaki: people say it workes once and then stops... | 14:23 |
| pawky2 | and I didnt be able to install the apk | 14:23 |
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| pawky2 | What I am trying to say is that i believe this payware, will be quite a hard sell, for the none über enthusiasts like me... :-/ | 14:24 |
| pawky2 | and I would have liked at least one nifty feature... | 14:24 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: Use yalp-store for installing apps as a temporary workaround. (and the play-services still work) | 14:24 |
| pawky2 | I have also noticed the autofocus, seems to get it right, then backs a tiny bit to actually make the picture slightly out of focus | 14:25 |
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| Ingvix | you need to prevent the store from updating and then it works | 14:25 |
| Ingvix | *updating itself | 14:26 |
| jakibaki | Ingvix: How do I do that? | 14:26 |
| pawky2 | i get it... but its not a €50 feature is it.. ;-) | 14:26 |
| pawky2 | jakibaki: you set it in the app | 14:26 |
| jakibaki | pawky2: ok, thanks :) | 14:26 |
| pawky2 | settings something | 14:26 |
| Ingvix | no, play store forces updates | 14:26 |
| pawky2 | just as you can do with other apps.. i presume you just search for playstore and do the same | 14:26 |
| pawky2 | oh... | 14:27 |
| pawky2 | ok, my bad | 14:27 |
| pawky2 | wait... forces its own updates? | 14:27 |
| Ingvix | yes | 14:27 |
| jakibaki | Ok, I'll just keep using yalp-store for installing apps | 14:27 |
| Ingvix | wait a moment, I check how it was done | 14:27 |
| pawky2 | I would think it uses itself for the update, hence you should be able to find playstore and then choose not to update it | 14:27 |
| pawky2 | within the ap | 14:28 |
| Ingvix | I'm pretty sure that can't be done | 14:28 |
| Ingvix | at least I couldn't find a way when I was troubleshooting it | 14:28 |
| Ingvix | jakibaki, create and empty folder in /opt/alien/data/app/ with a name "com.android.vending-1.apk" | 14:30 |
| jakibaki | Ingvix: thanks! | 14:30 |
| Ingvix | then it is unable to update itself | 14:30 |
| pawky2 | :-) | 14:30 |
| pawky2 | I still believe this Jolla X will be a bit of a hard sell... only the future will tell B) | 14:31 |
| pawky2 | (it even rimes...) | 14:31 |
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| M4rtinK | pawky2: actually I'm totally fine with the current model | 14:35 |
| M4rtinK | pawky2: makes perfect sense to me | 14:35 |
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| M4rtinK | supporting a device (initial & ongoing support) has some cost | 14:35 |
| r0kk3rz | its the same version of the same OS, why would it have different features? | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | (we are not there yet as with desktop distros where a generic OS image will work on any hardware) | 14:36 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe if they get some fingerprint or NFC going | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | + the third party licensing | 14:36 |
| M4rtinK | so I'm totally fine with paying them to do their work | 14:37 |
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| M4rtinK | so I can finally enjoy Sailfish OS on proper hardware | 14:37 |
| M4rtinK | and I hope this is just a beginning of an ongoing effort to support more hardware | 14:38 |
| M4rtinK | basically anything compatible with Sailfish OS & enough interested users | 14:38 |
| M4rtinK | is a potential Sailfish OS target (and revenue source for Jolla) | 14:39 |
| M4rtinK | also this model encourages Jolla to keep supporting hardware as long as there are paying users | 14:39 |
| M4rtinK | vs the Android model | 14:39 |
| M4rtinK | where the Manufacturer also does OS support, but has no real incentives to keep the OS up to date once the device has been bought | 14:40 |
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| phlixi_o | german golem and heise as well have SX in the ticker :-) https://heise.de/-3860536 https://www.golem.de/news/sailfish-x-kostenpflichtiges-betriebssystem-fuer-sonys-xperia-x-1710-130575.html | 14:55 |
| r0kk3rz | i wonder if we can coax some sales figured out of Jolla | 14:56 |
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| louisdk2 | Have anyone gotten Emma on Virtualbox to detect Xperia X with Virtualbox and a Linux host? | 15:10 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: OpenRepos global download stats are possibly showing some increased traffic: https://openrepos.net/statistics/global | 15:15 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah im not really interested in that | 15:15 |
| M4rtinK | I'm afraid we don't really have any other data right now | 15:16 |
| r0kk3rz | sure we can cobble together some tea leaves and come up with a guestimate | 15:16 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I'm seeing something similar for modRana download stats since yesterday | 15:16 |
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| r0kk3rz | those numbers seem quite high really, is that total number of app downloads or something? | 15:19 |
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| ruskie | meh latest update didn't go through on my jolla 1 guess I'll have to do recovery :( | 17:05 |
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| * gexc-tablet just got an amex card working :-/ | 17:12 | |
| gexc-tablet | even the download link is region locked, hmm... | 17:13 |
| M4rtinK | interesting | 17:14 |
| M4rtinK | but again, it's all working the same way as a RHEL subscription :) | 17:15 |
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| M4rtinK | eq. you need to have a subscription to both get the binaries/installation images & to receive updates | 17:15 |
| M4rtinK | with the substantial difference that all of RHEL is open source and you can of course get the source even without a subscription | 17:16 |
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| abranson | M4rtinK: that's something to aim for then isn't it? | 17:23 |
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| * attah boots up his 10 year old thinkpad... it smells distinctly vintage | 17:35 | |
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| M4rtinK | abranson: definitely! :) | 17:41 |
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| keithzg[m] | louisdk2: Did you ever get emma in a VirtualBox guest to detect your X? Have you installed the extensions pack on your host and the guest additions on your guest? | 18:38 |
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| friese | well just lovely :-) Camera is a big step up from my old Jolla 1, Sailfish is incredible fast (as expected) and even bluetooth works fine for me, pebble & my car bluetooth all perfect | 19:06 |
| friese | missing tap-to-wake and of course fingerprint would be nice :) | 19:07 |
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| Tegu | there's no tap-to-wake? :o | 19:07 |
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| Tegu | there's no tap-to-wake? :o | 19:07 |
| r0kk3rz | there is kinda | 19:08 |
| r0kk3rz | but is disabled | 19:08 |
| Tegu | :/ | 19:08 |
| r0kk3rz | its still early days yet | 19:10 |
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| jakibaki | Tap-to-wake is disabled for a good reason. It's pretty much broken (at least for me). I end up having to quadruple-tap and sometime the touchscreen doesn't work at all when turning on using the normal button. | 19:14 |
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| attah | So what's the best way for gapps on SalifishX? opengapps or the full monty? | 19:24 |
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| * r0kk3rz trombone solo | 19:28 | |
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| * kid bought and downloaded Sailfish X today and will get the phone next week … *excited* :-) | 20:26 | |
| cb400f_ | you should be, it's very neat running sfos on that thing :-) | 20:27 |
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| kid | Good to hear. I've been on Android since feb, when I had to retire my Jolla1. Still have the tablet though. | 20:29 |
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| nekron | its running beautiful on the X h/w | 20:40 |
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| * nekron still migrating stuff from J1 to X | 20:41 | |
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| Sm4 | is there still a file in dalvik in which you have to specify all the android apps that can show notifications? | 20:42 |
| Sm4 | my google-fu isn't working | 20:42 |
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| r0kk3rz | Sm4: not in dalvik, in sailfish | 20:46 |
| r0kk3rz | take a look at the files in /usr/share/lipstick/notificationcategories | 20:47 |
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| Sm4 | i think /usr/share/lipstick/androidnotificationpriorities is actually the file i'm looking for | 21:01 |
| Sm4 | thanks for pointing me in the right direction! | 21:03 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah somewhere there :) | 21:08 |
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| ender| | is it just me, or does sailfishx lock itself much faster than sailfish on jolla? | 21:44 |
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| M4rtinK | screen timeout reset to default ? ;-) | 21:46 |
| ender| | yes, but on jolla it didn't lock as soon as the screen went off | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | oh that | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, could be different | 21:48 |
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