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| just486 | hi! is the old solution to add additional keyboard layouts to the inputs still working? | 10:57 |
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| Hummer12007 | hi, my phone has recently powered off (to the "charge me, master" screen) while it had 38% charge (it's powered on successfuly the next moment with the same level) | 12:22 |
| Hummer12007 | csd reports ~87% capacity | 12:23 |
| Hummer12007 | what could cause it? | 12:23 |
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| tbr | Hummer12007: could be the quite common oxide build up on the connector surfaces between battery and phone. | 12:31 |
| tbr | Hummer12007: you can (*gently*!) clean the surfaces | 12:31 |
| Hummer12007 | ok, I'll clean the contactz then | 12:31 |
| Hummer12007 | thanks | 12:31 |
| tbr | you could also just insert/remove the battery 20 times and wiggle it a bit at that | 12:31 |
| tbr | same effect | 12:31 |
| pp_ | magic duct tape too? | 12:32 |
| tbr | no duct tape necessary | 12:33 |
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| Aciid | I just found myself on the backers CSV among the first thousand orderee's | 12:52 |
| Aciid | im so fucking dissapointed | 12:52 |
| Aciid | :D | 12:52 |
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| Aciid | I remember when I stopped right on mannerheimin tie just to order, I got a lot of shit for stopping on a bus stop | 12:53 |
| * roboro is pretty sad that he probably isn't one of the lucky ones... | 12:54 | |
| Aciid | yeah im not getting one tho im among the firs tthousand | 12:54 |
| * tbr sees a 50:60 (sic!) chance to get one, as they haven't said anything about the eMMC capacity of those 540 devices | 12:55 | |
| Nicd- | so glad I couldn't persuade my wife into getting one | 12:56 |
| the_mgt | so what is the best and what is the cheapest DIY alternative? | 13:01 |
| tbr | I don't think there are many tablet adaptations, yet | 13:01 |
| Yaniel | SailPI with a hdmipi? | 13:02 |
| locusf | yep | 13:03 |
| Yaniel | definitely DIY and IIRC you end up somewhere between 100 and 200€ | 13:03 |
| locusf | 150€ | 13:03 |
| locusf | no android support | 13:03 |
| locusf | (yet) | 13:03 |
| the_mgt | wasnt there a nexus tablet running sailfish? | 13:04 |
| Yaniel | oh right, the hdmipi doesn't have a touchscreen I think | 13:04 |
| Yaniel | so you have to buy that separately still | 13:05 |
| Nicd- | it does | 13:05 |
| Nicd- | "10-finger capacitive touch" | 13:05 |
| Yaniel | then it has changed a bit since I last looked | 13:05 |
| Yaniel | cool | 13:05 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah sailpi is a little more DIY than im looking for | 13:05 |
| Yaniel | this is actually starting to look relatively attractive :D | 13:06 |
| locusf | how come "little more DIY" :p | 13:06 |
| entil | on a related note, any rumors (or preferrably facts) on how official sailfish on the fairphone2 will be? will it ship with sailfish or will it need to be whacked in? | 13:06 |
| locusf | its really simple to assemble | 13:06 |
| phlixi_o | nexus 7? | 13:07 |
| tbr | if my next tablet will be intel, then I'm waiting for Kaby Lake. Among other things that will have decent hw decoding acceleration for VP9 and HEVC | 13:07 |
| the_mgt | entil: I was wondering about that, too. since the last tablet blog post sounded somewhat official | 13:07 |
| the_mgt | but the interview on reviewjolla sounded more like unofficial | 13:08 |
| locusf | its a community port | 13:08 |
| r0kk3rz | locusf: im keen to take a look at FOSDEM! but mostly not so much diy hardware is what i want | 13:08 |
| locusf | r0kk3rz: well lets see tomorrow then :) | 13:08 |
| entil | community port.. myeah.. guess it's better than nothing | 13:08 |
| the_mgt | and by DIY I did not mean hardware, but installing a port of sailfish to a readily available tablet | 13:08 |
| locusf | or tonight | 13:08 |
| entil | would be nice to go like 1) buy fairphone 2) power on 3) enjoy sailfish | 13:09 |
| Yaniel | entil +1 | 13:09 |
| locusf | well the community ports are usually: 1) install twrp/<insert other custom recovery> 2) flash sailfish .zip file 3) boot to sailfish | 13:10 |
| kimmoli | just add step 2.5) flash sailfish | 13:10 |
| dr_gogeta86 | locusf, unlock bootloader first | 13:10 |
| dr_gogeta86 | pls | 13:10 |
| locusf | err | 13:10 |
| dr_gogeta86 | and on some phone ... is terrible like lg g3 | 13:10 |
| locusf | does fp2 really have it? | 13:10 |
| entil | hoping for good docs on how to do it either way | 13:12 |
| Yaniel | wow they've even got the price for that display down from what it used to be | 13:12 |
| r0kk3rz | entil: coming to fosdem? theres a fairphone talk that apparently sledges is going to be at | 13:13 |
| entil | r0kk3rz: I was kinda hoping to, but no :( | 13:14 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: theres a few niceish looking tablets around, i think a bunch of us should get organised so we can pool our resources supporting the thing | 13:14 |
| the_mgt | r0kk3rz: on the intel side of things? | 13:16 |
| entil | the taobao one should be easy ;) | 13:16 |
| the_mgt | entil: exactly my thought. I was speculating some people here were more informed about it, through various other sources | 13:17 |
| entil | beats me, bob | 13:17 |
| the_mgt | also, intel and "fitting into lastu case" would be superb | 13:17 |
| tbr | if you want intel, then I'd still go with baytrail-T based hardware, just as the jolla tablet | 13:18 |
| the_mgt | otoh, jolla should be somehow interested to get somebody to make an intel tablet, otherwise the whole money would be a double waste. no own tablet and no use for the software port... | 13:18 |
| sledges | entil: next year then:) | 13:18 |
| tbr | the_mgt: you overestimate the reusability of a hw adaptation | 13:20 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: yeah, cherry trail intel things are about around the £120 mark | 13:20 |
| the_mgt | tbr: didnt they port everything from arm_whatever to intel_x64? | 13:21 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: you recon? maybe i buy a taobao special then | 13:22 |
| tbr | the_mgt: the general x86 build already existed because of the emulator adaptation | 13:22 |
| tbr | the_mgt: so most things would have been hardware specific AFAIU | 13:23 |
| r0kk3rz | my biggest concern is the screen on some of these cheap chinese things, its hard to find reviews | 13:23 |
| r0kk3rz | especially given the trouble jolla went to screen wise | 13:23 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: if you want to go for something from china. look for Baytrail-T, android AND kernel sources | 13:23 |
| the_mgt | tbr: like "writing kernel modules for hardware" or what? | 13:24 |
| tbr | the_mgt: getting the display to work, getting the sensors to work, getting the intel HD graphics to work, supporting hardware specific things | 13:25 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: there seem to be a few onda tablets with baytrail. I think I also saw kernel sources or such on their official forum. | 13:27 |
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| tbr | I still feel bad that I was so enthusiastic about Cherrytrail and that made kimmoli buy the v820w | 13:28 |
| kimmoli | tbr: #blame tbr. not really, i actually used it hmm twice | 13:29 |
| tbr | heh | 13:29 |
| * lainwir3d opens his jolla tablet | 13:34 | |
| * Yaniel opens his EMP device | 13:36 | |
| lainwir3d | haha | 13:36 |
| Nicd- | lainwir3d: hows it feel like having a tablet with a slow OS and pretty much no apps? ;) | 13:36 |
| Nicd- | and bad battery life | 13:37 |
| kimmoli | doesn't bother me | 13:37 |
| lainwir3d | Nicd-: very nice actually :P | 13:40 |
| lainwir3d | And I don't feel the OS is that slow :/ | 13:40 |
| lainwir3d | i even find it fast | 13:40 |
| r0kk3rz | tbr: well lets not make the same mistake twice then :) | 13:40 |
| lainwir3d | that being said, yeah some apps are missing | 13:41 |
| roboro | its fast because it has no apps :D | 13:41 |
| lainwir3d | haha | 13:41 |
| lainwir3d | yeah :D | 13:41 |
| lainwir3d | well most apps I use daily are there though | 13:41 |
| Yaniel | how's fingerterm on it | 13:42 |
| Nicd- | personally I can't even get the tablet SDK to work | 13:42 |
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| Nicd- | so I'm not going to recompile and fix my apps for the tablet. someone else is free to do that though | 13:42 |
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| Yaniel | well... I couldn't get the phone SDK to work last time I tried either | 13:43 |
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| lainwir3d | Yaniel: the terminal is nice. Especially with a usb keyboard now that usb otg is working | 13:45 |
| lainwir3d | I ported my apps, that's always a start | 13:45 |
| lainwir3d | and I "forced" a coworker to do the same :P | 13:45 |
| lainwir3d | even though he doesn't have a tablet | 13:46 |
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| tbr | r0kk3rz: feel free to dig e.g. here for kernel source http://www.ondaforum.com/files/ | 13:48 |
| tbr | other possible hardware would be Teclast | 13:50 |
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| tbr | ok looks like teclast doesn't release source | 13:54 |
| tbr | meh, none of them seem to, kinda expected :-/ | 13:57 |
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| r0kk3rz | tbr: makes me wonder whether the jtab taobao special is best, since jolla do release kernel sources | 14:02 |
| tbr | r0kk3rz: yes, if you can actually get one and if the firmware isn't locked, then it's the way to go | 14:02 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 14:02 |
| tbr | (and even if firmware is locked, it should be possible to transplant the firmware from a jolla tablet, all it needs is a SPI eeprom reader/writer) | 14:03 |
| tbr | also would be kind of interesting to have dump of the android image for it | 14:03 |
| tbr | could even dual boot :) | 14:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah i guess its all conjecture until i actually get it and poke around | 14:05 |
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| phlixi_o | imho major drawback of all non official devices so far is the lack of android capability (and i dont mind paying for that, but afaik nobody is selling it for non jolla devices... otherwise i would have had already sailfish on other hardware than jolla device...) | 15:19 |
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| phlixi_o | of course having everything native would be much nicer, but thats even way more unrealistic than purchaseable licenses for the android stuff... | 15:20 |
| phlixi_o | IMHO^^ | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | well, purchaseable licenses aren't unrealistic at all | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | it's just comparable problems to that of paid app support | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | phlixi_o: how much would you pay for it? | 15:21 |
| phlixi_o | i dont mind paying 10bucks a month for having a software running that is not android/ios and the whole spying businessmodel | 15:22 |
| phlixi_o | if 2eur is for dalvik, then tzhats fine | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | on what hw? | 15:22 |
| phlixi_o | one | 15:22 |
| Tegu | kickstarter for "bring alien dalvik for 1+1!" | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | huh? | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:22 |
| phlixi_o | one piece | 15:22 |
| phlixi_o | ^^^ | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but what hw ;) | 15:22 |
| phlixi_o | i dont mind the hardware that much | 15:23 |
| phlixi_o | i even had no problem to pay 300 euro to support sailfish developement for the last year :D | 15:24 |
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| phlixi_o | ...i have no problem... | 15:25 |
| phlixi_o | and if you now came up with a product like "hey, 15eur a month get updates for sailfish" than i would probably buy it too | 15:26 |
| phlixi_o | though i think that is too much | 15:26 |
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| phlixi_o | but the most people probably will say, wtf? android is for free | 15:26 |
| phlixi_o | Stskeeps :-) | 15:26 |
| ggabriel | lol, android isn't free | 15:26 |
| phlixi_o | ggabriel i am sure you understand what i meant, right? | 15:27 |
| ggabriel | they now want me to accept new t&c's | 15:27 |
| ggabriel | yes, phlixi_o, I do | 15:27 |
| ggabriel | but I make an extra effort to make people aware when they say it's for free | 15:27 |
| ggabriel | or they think it's for free | 15:27 |
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| phlixi_o | yeah, like me, but that wont help much i guess, most people still happily pay 500eur for the phone (inkl os) but cry if whatsup costs .99 a year | 15:28 |
| phlixi_o | like software should not be allowed to cost money (of course which is silly) | 15:28 |
| ggabriel | well, making whatsapp a paid application is taking the piss really | 15:28 |
| ggabriel | although it gives the power to people to sue | 15:28 |
| ggabriel | which is good | 15:28 |
| phlixi_o | no one goes to court for .99 | 15:28 |
| ggabriel | not .99, it's liability | 15:29 |
| ggabriel | becuase if you pay [any amount], then there's a contract | 15:29 |
| ggabriel | if you don't pay, you have no contract and rely on statutory rights which are harder to fight for | 15:29 |
| phlixi_o | i assume there is technically no difference to 0.00 | 15:29 |
| ggabriel | legally, there is | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | anyway, we digress :) | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | I like your monthly payment idea, it's been said before | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | but it's tricky in so many ways | 15:30 |
| phlixi_o | you (usual facetuber) will accept any eula anyway | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | phlixi_o: would you pay in bitcoin or ethereum's ether for it? | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:30 |
| ggabriel | can I pay with chocolate? | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | maaybe. | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:31 |
| phlixi_o | Stskeeps: i needed, i would find a way to do that. until things change dramatically, i stick with sepa if posssible, or visa | 15:31 |
| phlixi_o | IF needed | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | as an example, it's semi-trivial for a software to check if there's sufficient funds on a unique account you pay into that jolla drags 3 eur/month from, as an example | 15:32 |
| phlixi_o | i never said there are no problems to implement that. payment is a b*tch | 15:32 |
| phlixi_o | internatioinally even worse | 15:32 |
| phlixi_o | i bet thats tthe reason why there is no payment in jolla store, because of 100 tricky little details connected to it | 15:34 |
| phlixi_o | compared to "just download what you want" | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | ironically it would have been easier to sell the phone with a markup that would give X amount of bitcoin along from beginning | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:34 |
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| phlixi_o | ..mine your future | 15:35 |
| phlixi_o | i would also "buy" lets say for 50bucks the androis thingy licence | 15:37 |
| phlixi_o | but in general i prefer to pay regularly, because buying software does not work longterm | 15:38 |
| Tofe | I think most users would prefer the contrary... | 15:41 |
| Tofe | A poll ! We need a poll ! ;) | 15:41 |
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| phlixi_o | well, i work in software which is not with millions of customers, and sellig the software like an orange and then giving updates forever for free simply does not work | 15:42 |
| phlixi_o | and supporting old releases with patches while doing new branches with new features just adds overhead | 15:44 |
| pp_ | apple manages ok (but they support hardware for a sensible time, not forever) | 15:44 |
| phlixi_o | i think thats also the reason why comparable systems like windows 10, the whole adobe stuff or ms office, ayou either buy a certain time of updates, or you pay regularly | 15:45 |
| phlixi_o | which is the same in the end | 15:45 |
| phlixi_o | and yes, from a users point of view, of course its better to pay once, because usually thats way less toc | 15:46 |
| phlixi_o | tco | 15:46 |
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| entil | I just heard the android support is jolla proprietary and not available for community ports :( | 16:21 |
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| dr_gogeta86 | entil, you don't say | 16:21 |
| entil | any word on whether or not this is a permanent situation? | 16:21 |
| entil | I just lost my enthusiasm for upgrading my phone, because there are some android apps I pretty much need | 16:22 |
| tbr | entil: someone finally got some initial success in running AOSP as an app. So there might be a solution in the long run. | 16:23 |
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| entil | yeah, let's see how things evolve, maybe there'll be a more official blessed-by-jolla phone coming out | 16:24 |
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| ggabriel | entil: there is open source dalvik, just needs more community owrk | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | is that what you meant tbr ? | 16:29 |
| entil | ggabriel: nice | 16:29 |
| ggabriel | entil: work in progress of course, there is a youtube video somewhere | 16:30 |
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| phlixi_o | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--OtwvH4ARU | 16:30 |
| phlixi_o | Android as Sailfish OS App by krnlyng! (alpha) | 16:30 |
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| entil | lol, I'm severely lagged | 16:32 |
| entil | trying to watch the video... | 16:32 |
| ggabriel | you get the idea though... it's a sfos application, but android is inside | 16:33 |
| entil | and that's capable of running software ... installed as apks? | 16:33 |
| ggabriel | don't know but you can try it :) | 16:33 |
| ggabriel | I saw the camera working fwiw | 16:33 |
| entil | that's excellent | 16:34 |
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| entil | kinda sucks for jolla's ipr though | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | nowhere near the amount of integration dalvik does though | 16:39 |
| entil | I have legacy whatsapp and important signal that I have to care about | 16:40 |
| ggabriel | Stskeeps: ssshhh, work in progress :P | 16:40 |
| entil | someone asked about writing a textsecure/signal client for sailfishos, pointed him to my pre-alpha hack abandonware and probably scared him off | 16:42 |
| entil | and someone else suggested looking into whether or not ubuntu phone apps, in go, can be ported to sailfish | 16:42 |
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| entil | but that still doesn't solve whatsapp | 16:42 |
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| ggabriel | solve whatsapp? you mean kill whatsapp? :P | 16:44 |
| entil | that would be a solution as well, but I'd settle for being able to communicate over it | 16:44 |
| ggabriel | like sending an sms? you need a phone number to use whatsapp at the end of the day | 16:45 |
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| entil | like upholding a group chat with my brothers and sisters for example | 16:45 |
| ggabriel | you're asking for trouble | 16:45 |
| ggabriel | best to deal with syblings on a one to one basis | 16:46 |
| ggabriel | sms protects you from that point of view; whatsapp doesn't | 16:46 |
| entil | I'll try to keep that in mind | 16:46 |
| phlixi_o | i migrated them to threema (where my peers are) and email | 16:47 |
| phlixi_o | in the end there is nothing email cant do (in regards of messener stuff) | 16:47 |
| entil | good for you | 16:47 |
| ggabriel | agree re email | 16:47 |
| phlixi_o | my condolences for the whatsupfacecrap | 16:47 |
| ggabriel | broadly supported, to | 16:47 |
| ggabriel | +o | 16:47 |
| phlixi_o | dezentralized structure | 16:48 |
| phlixi_o | email is great | 16:48 |
| entil | all email eventually hits gmail | 16:48 |
| phlixi_o | open protocols | 16:48 |
| ggabriel | erm, no | 16:48 |
| phlixi_o | well, but it doesnt have to hit gmail | 16:48 |
| ggabriel | hotmail sucks a bit at it though | 16:48 |
| ggabriel | welll, whatsapp hits facebook, so... | 16:49 |
| ggabriel | and not eventually, always | 16:49 |
| ggabriel | happy data privacy day :P | 16:49 |
| entil | and after I've convinced everyone I care about that email is the best I can move on to solving world hunger and the day after that poverty AND war | 16:49 |
| ggabriel | there's a bit of a gap there | 16:49 |
| phlixi_o | that all solved before i bet | 16:49 |
| ggabriel | but good luck | 16:49 |
| entil | my god I never realized how easy this is | 16:49 |
| entil | thanks guys | 16:49 |
| ggabriel | always here to help | 16:49 |
| entil | but yeah, it'd be nice to see IM apps running on that youtube-video setup | 16:50 |
| ggabriel | entil: if you have a jolla, you can download now and try... | 16:50 |
| entil | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA4KTPt2wgY Whatsapp on SailfishOS (non-jolla, Nexus 4) | 16:51 |
| entil | let's see if I can get that video going any faster than the previous one :D | 16:51 |
| entil | sadly very little chatting in that video, a big part of it was installation, but nice | 16:53 |
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| entil | ggabriel: where am I not finding the installation instructions for anything but nexus 5? I'd be happy to try that out | 16:55 |
| phlixi_o | entil: i used to have slow inet at office, and then just downloaded youtube videos before watching them | 16:56 |
| phlixi_o | ...half of the top100 firefox addons are youtube downloader plugins.. | 16:57 |
| phlixi_o | weird | 16:57 |
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| entil | what's jolla store's policy on community ports? do they get whitelisted at some point? | 17:01 |
| stephg | entil: you mean ported devices and getting the store? | 17:01 |
| entil | yeah | 17:02 |
| stephg | if the port is stable and the device can reliably hand out a mac or an imei there're going to be allowed | 17:03 |
| entil | nice! | 17:04 |
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| stephg | at least that is my understanding | 17:04 |
| stephg | it's being ironed out still | 17:04 |
| sharix | stephg: I think using the IMEI as primarykey for the account is not a good idea. | 17:07 |
| sharix | As long as jolla keeps the data, I#m fine, but who knwos who will own that data in the future? | 17:07 |
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| Stskeeps | sledges: sitting inside | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | w/ jvd | 17:07 |
| sledges | Stskeeps: ok, 8mins | 17:08 |
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| Stskeeps | stephg: when was your eta for chichis | 17:11 |
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| EYeA | Jolla )01!@ )0h | 17:11 |
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| EYeA | NO NO NO | 17:19 |
| EYeA | Jolla tablet | 17:19 |
| EYeA | dam | 17:19 |
| EYeA | shame | 17:19 |
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| krnlyng | Stskeeps: obviously, nowhere near the manpower, i see it as an experiment :) and probably never will be more than that | 19:44 |
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| Stskeeps | krnlyng: sure | 19:46 |
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