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| tortoisedoc | greetings! | 07:12 |
|---|---|---|
| tortoisedoc | Jolla shop is empty | 07:12 |
| tortoisedoc | any chance to see some refill? | 07:12 |
| dr_gogeta86 | i don't think so ... now is total layoff .. .so | 07:16 |
| tortoisedoc | gah | 07:17 |
| tortoisedoc | right | 07:17 |
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| tbr | total? 50% was the new | 07:24 |
| tbr | news | 07:24 |
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| Stskeeps | that doesn't sound accurate | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:33 |
| Stskeeps | (as in, total) | 07:33 |
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| * Stskeeps glances at http://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2015/11/unnoticed-leak-answers-and-raises.html | 07:36 | |
| Stskeeps | might interest tbr | 07:36 |
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| entil | tortoisedoc: local news just printed jolla reporting "their bank account being empty" so probably no bonus | 07:41 |
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| tortoisedoc | entil : heh I guess that's the end of the line | 07:48 |
| tortoisedoc | unless tekes can give them some funding in dec? | 07:49 |
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| pp_ | they're having cuts as well :P | 07:49 |
| pp_ | but I guess they could forgive existing loans or whatnot | 07:49 |
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| Stskeeps | after spending some time with 'ld', i'm slowly starting to conclude that the old unix model is just plain broken | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 07:59 |
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| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : how so | 08:00 |
| tbr | entil: well, that's pretty much expected after earlier news | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | tortoisedoc: trying to work with static libraries and it doesn't actually include the whole archive... and then cmake on top of the mess | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:01 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : err, wait what :D | 08:02 |
| tortoisedoc | you loading static libraries via ld? | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | as in, linking it into another .so | 08:02 |
| tortoisedoc | aah | 08:02 |
| tortoisedoc | injecting :PO | 08:02 |
| entil | tortoisedoc: beats me, bob; as much as I love the guys and all, I wouldn't hold my breath for receiving anything | 08:02 |
| * tortoisedoc still wants his tablet | 08:02 | |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : hooking? | 08:02 |
| djselbeck | Applications still get approval in store, so there are people working right now ;) | 08:03 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : & patching? | 08:03 |
| entil | tortoisedoc: and good luck with emergency crowdfunding; the powers that be already lead the people astray by not coming out with the emergency, so if I hadn't my tablet I'd be royally pissed off | 08:03 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : the powers that be already? | 08:03 |
| entil | tortoisedoc: the powers that be, some dude in the board or management or wherever who probably made a conscious decision to not tell the people that the company's hemorrhaging money and will not be able to deliver | 08:04 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : heh | 08:04 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : I'd rather say they had to buy back shares | 08:04 |
| tortoisedoc | nothing surprising there | 08:04 |
| entil | like at the stage of "hey remember the igg? when it was obvious it wouldn't fund more than half a year of effort? well, the time's up and we had to switch hardware vendors, so we're sorry, we're fucked, and we're broke unless you pitch in more €€€" | 08:04 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 08:05 |
| birdzhang | djselbeck: I submitted my apps 12 days ago...still not approvaled :( | 08:05 |
| entil | but instead they did something that's very hard to distinguish from a scam | 08:05 |
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| tortoisedoc | entil : and that is? | 08:06 |
| djselbeck | birdzhang: Mine just got approved after 12 days as well | 08:06 |
| Helle_ | Stskeeps: on purpose, static linking by design only includes what code your program actually uses, remember, it was developed at a time where memory usage was severly constrained (and it tends to still be used in those cases | 08:06 |
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| entil | tortoisedoc: ... letting the people believe they'll get their tablets? | 08:06 |
| lpotter | have they said you wont get your tablet? | 08:06 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : where's that different from a scam? :P | 08:06 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : where's that NOT different from a scam | 08:07 |
| birdzhang | djselbeck: wow,next is mine :) | 08:07 |
| entil | usually when you take money for a promise and don't deliver it's somewhere between a lie and a scam, and what hurts here is that jolla is all about #unlike #community but did not come clean - bankruptcies are not surprises to the powers that be | 08:07 |
| entil | lpotter: just recent .fi news that their bank account is empty - with the slight caveat that the newspaper might be blowing it out of proportion, but it's the biggest newspaper, not a tech blog | 08:07 |
| lpotter | so | 08:08 |
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| Nicd- | entil: but they're not bankrupt yet | 08:08 |
| Nicd- | they were in the middle of a financing round and it didn't go through | 08:08 |
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| entil | no, but good luck with emergency crowdfunding - if I didn't have my tablet I'd send a flaming bag of shit to whoever's in charge of business | 08:08 |
| Nicd- | I think they were betting on it going through normally | 08:08 |
| tortoisedoc | Nicd- : yes definitely | 08:08 |
| lpotter | so you have your tablet,, so what's your problem? | 08:09 |
| entil | I think that's the worst fucking thing you can do to people who actually want the #unlike #community to thrive | 08:09 |
| entil | disappointing and hurtful | 08:09 |
| tortoisedoc | they just made the mistake not to have a plan b | 08:09 |
| Nicd- | startups often don't have a plan b | 08:09 |
| tortoisedoc | Nicd- : indeed :) | 08:09 |
| tortoisedoc | perhaps thats what makes them startups :P | 08:09 |
| lpotter | I'm fairly sure they have plan b | 08:09 |
| Nicd- | lpotter: is this the plan b? :P | 08:09 |
| Hartzi | entil: Welcome to the real world. If there's no money left, then there isn't :P | 08:09 |
| lpotter | no, it's a hickup | 08:09 |
| entil | well, I got mine, so I'm #unlike as ballz, but plan b is always the gullibility^Wkindness of the community if you actually interact with them | 08:10 |
| tortoisedoc | Hartzi : its not even that | 08:10 |
| tortoisedoc | Hartzi : there would be plenty of people ready to give money to jolla | 08:10 |
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| tortoisedoc | Hartzi : and jolla could have just kept pre sales of tablets open forever | 08:10 |
| tortoisedoc | Hartzi : and get more cash | 08:10 |
| tortoisedoc | there must be something else | 08:10 |
| entil | Hartzi: that's not the problem, the problem is that when you don't communicate and suddenly are out of money it reads as "guess what, #community, we're #unlike because we got paychecks, and you didn't get shit, lol @ u" | 08:10 |
| lpotter | you dont know what you are talking about | 08:11 |
| lpotter | and it's not that simple | 08:11 |
| tortoisedoc | lpotter : who are you talking to now | 08:11 |
| lpotter | entil: | 08:11 |
| * entil shrugs | 08:11 | |
| * tbr concurs, things are likely much more complicated | 08:12 | |
| lpotter | there's always more to the story than meets the eye | 08:12 |
| entil | well sure, but what's wrong with status updates? | 08:12 |
| narchie1 | #peoplePowdered | 08:12 |
| tbr | it's easy to point fingers and accuse people/companies based on limited knowledge | 08:12 |
| lpotter | well.. maybe just maybe, it fell through at the last moment? | 08:12 |
| entil | you got 12k backers, and a handful (afaik nothing's reported, except that it's not many) that's shipped, and there's been a year of time to send status updates | 08:13 |
| pp_ | it's like a laptop with 5% battery... You could use it to check facebook and then you're completely screwed | 08:13 |
| Tofe | tortoisedoc: against shares, ok, but otherwise it's not the role of the community | 08:13 |
| entil | tbr: that's why I'm limiting the blame to whichever unknown body decided it's best to wait until the last moment, because that's never a good idea, but it's usually some business suit making that call because they're not on eg. irc interacting with the people | 08:13 |
| Hartzi | entil: propably the thing is the owner(s) haven't allowed Jolla to communicate more. Complaining like an idiot doesn't help Jolla perform better.. it just makes things worse. | 08:14 |
| tortoisedoc | Tofe: related to what? | 08:14 |
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| tortoisedoc | +1 Harzi | 08:14 |
| tortoisedoc | +1 Hartzi | 08:14 |
| Tofe | tortoisedoc: related to giving money to Jolla :) | 08:14 |
| entil | Hartzi: I'm beyond caring now :P I'll use my jolla phone and tablet until they die, and count my blessings I got the tablet, but I'm sorely disappointed in the owners | 08:14 |
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| lpotter | maybe they were legally bound to not give public detailed updates on financing talks | 08:14 |
| entil | if the intex phone ships, I'll consider that as well, because sailfish rules | 08:15 |
| entil | lpotter: it's not related to financial talks or investment rounds; they could always have done another indiegogo | 08:16 |
| tortoisedoc | Tofe: jolla shop is out of stock; I still do wonder why jolla stopped pre-sell tablets? | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | entil: you don't really start another indiegogo when you haven't delivered on the previous one | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | ::P | 08:16 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 08:16 |
| tortoisedoc | lolz | 08:16 |
| entil | probably someone figured it's losing face to ask for more money, but on the other hand people probably undrestand changing the hw vendor is a huge thing and would be all about the community, | 08:16 |
| zchydem | puf.. it's easy to complain, but things are not so black and white. Also a person who is backer of any crowdfunding campaign should know that there is always a big chance of failure. Same as putting money on stocks | 08:16 |
| entil | Stskeeps: there are projects that do that, and I've even chanced backing one | 08:16 |
| tbr | gee, this devolved to tmo-like levels quickly. time to shift atention. | 08:16 |
| lpotter | zchydem: +1 | 08:17 |
| pp_ | yupyup... finnish companies can't even actually beg for money | 08:17 |
| tortoisedoc | lolzers indeed tmo spirit is high here | 08:17 |
| Nicd- | yeah, the indiegogo money went to jolla hong kong | 08:17 |
| Nicd- | afaik | 08:17 |
| entil | zchydem: that's actually the truest thing, just wonder how many people of the 12k, or of kickstart/igg backers in general, really realize that they're gambling | 08:17 |
| tbr | level "don't confuse me with facts!" | 08:17 |
| entil | afaik igg works in finland if it's the type of campaign that refunds if it's not met | 08:18 |
| entil | and afaik kickstarter is not allowed in finland because you always lose your money | 08:18 |
| entil | but this is not 100% sure facts, so take it as you will | 08:18 |
| zchydem | entil: I've been wondering the same thing | 08:18 |
| tortoisedoc | entil : this has been a gamble since day #1. | 08:19 |
| tortoisedoc | wheres the news there :P | 08:19 |
| entil | there's a part of me that goes along the lines of "a fool and his money shall soon be parted" and "it's your fault if you didn't read into it" but it's not often you can read on the campaigns or anywhere that "hey! remember! no refunds!" | 08:19 |
| * lpotter is amazed that jolla got sailfish 2.0 out AND got x86 tablet up and ready | 08:20 | |
| entil | especially when you have to start using the funds to deliver, not collect it all first and then start | 08:20 |
| entil | yeah, lots of love to the tech people | 08:20 |
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| zchydem | lpotter: exactly that's been amazing thing and especially when knowing how few developers there are | 08:22 |
| lpotter | indeed | 08:22 |
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| entil | have there been only a few? I thought jolla was pretty tech heavy | 08:22 |
| narchie1 | #peoplePowered | 08:22 |
| Stskeeps | entil: not compared to 1000-2000 people efforts like tizen | 08:23 |
| entil | wasn't it like 100 people? so if a lot of those aren't in tech then I dunno what | 08:23 |
| entil | Stskeeps: sure, of course | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | 120 = a mixup of care, business development, QA, developers, etc | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | design | 08:23 |
| lpotter | Stskeeps: or 1000's in Nokia :) | 08:23 |
| entil | I don't really know but isn't tizen also aimed at everything from cars to thermometers, so that kinda attenuates the need for tech people | 08:23 |
| zchydem | IIRC there was 1800 people working on MeeGo | 08:23 |
| zchydem | which included ~200 trolls | 08:24 |
| pp_ | dunno if it has changed but tizen also is about selling mobile intel chips :-) | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | pp_: bwhaha. intel has long ago exited tizen in that regard | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:24 |
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| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : didnt they fork to some other distro? limobo or something? | 08:25 |
| sletta | zchydem: is that with or without externals? :p | 08:25 |
| pp_ | heh yea, looks like even IVI just died: http://download.tizen.org/releases/daily/tizen/ivi/latest/ (updated in January) | 08:27 |
| tortoisedoc | pp_ : isnt that mantained by samsung internally? | 08:27 |
| pp_ | intel used to have interest in that side (reference hardware is intel too) | 08:28 |
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| zchydem | sletta: Can't remember, but I believe it was with externals | 08:46 |
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| lainwir3d | o/ | 09:40 |
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| pdanek2 | Hello, did Jolla officially say the reason of tablet delays please? | 09:58 |
| ggabriel | financial trouble? | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | not really | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | "Unfortunately, we have not been able to keep this timeline for wave 2. This can be attributed to various factors and simply the fact that we are still a start-up." | 09:59 |
| pdanek2 | they didn't relate that to tablet shipping in their press release | 09:59 |
| Nicd- | just "various factors" | 09:59 |
| pdanek2 | oh, ok | 09:59 |
| pdanek2 | i see | 09:59 |
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| pdanek2 | ibdiegogo doesn't give any assurances to buyers? | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | you're not a buer | 10:01 |
| Stskeeps | +y | 10:01 |
| Nicd- | yeah, crowdfunding is just funding | 10:01 |
| pdanek2 | on kickstarter when project wasn't done | 10:01 |
| pdanek2 | they offered me refund | 10:01 |
| tbr | also see the TC interview, tablet production/delivery is depending on acquiring funding | 10:02 |
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| pdanek2 | so the tablet price on indiegogo was undervalued if it's not enough to fund the project | 10:04 |
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| Nicd- | pdanek2: at the same time with the tablet they closed over €10M funding | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | nobody would have bought the tablet at over 5 times the price :P | 10:06 |
| djselbeck | It wouldn't be worth it | 10:06 |
| Nicd- | and again, Jolla really thought they would get more money in the latest financing (I think) | 10:07 |
| Nicd- | so it's not like they planned to run out of money from the start | 10:07 |
| tbr | my guess is that the tablet was done roughly at cost (of hw and external engineering) | 10:08 |
| pdanek2 | jolla should never think like that, funding on indiegogo itself should he calculated to be enough to ship all tablets right? | 10:08 |
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| tbr | the cost of software is not really in it, maybe a fraction | 10:08 |
| * tbr is highly amused by all the armchairing these days | 10:09 | |
| Nicd- | jolla phone available again in the store | 10:10 |
| Nicd- | it seems | 10:11 |
| Nicd- | "Your Jolla will ship with all new Sailfish OS 2.0, which is released soon." :P | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | we obviously didn't have money to pay for website updates :p | 10:11 |
| birdzhang | :D | 10:12 |
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| pdanek2 | what about that deal with Russian government, is it still actual? | 10:13 |
| Nicd- | nothing heard about it | 10:14 |
| Nicd- | no news about sailfish secure either | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | we presented at BRICS meeting of communications ministers, i'd say it's still on? | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | quite recently | 10:14 |
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| tortoisedoc | yeah Got Tablet-targeted SF2.0 - oh wait.. :P | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | *go | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | deh | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | so basically | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | what jolla did, is to sell tablets at a loss | 10:17 |
| tortoisedoc | and was planning to back it up with enough investor money | 10:18 |
| tortoisedoc | = | 10:18 |
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| tortoisedoc | ? | 10:18 |
| tbr | interesting thought, does HADK contain everything (and licensing!) to create a tablet adaptation? | 10:18 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : i was wondering the same; could get the N1 | 10:18 |
| Smar | couldn’t jolla just trick putin to fund jolla with some lure or something ;) | 10:19 |
| tortoisedoc | (which basically has the same specks) | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: you can stuff it on any tablet yes | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | it's one codebase | 10:19 |
| Hartzi | Smar: trick putin? He could nuke Finland after that :P | 10:19 |
| TemeV | N1 is available somewhere? | 10:19 |
| tortoisedoc | TemeV : China? | 10:20 |
| Smar | Hartzi: is ”sell” better word? :P | 10:20 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: yes, but are the tablet ux packages available? both in technical and legal terms | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: yes | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: one codebase. | 10:20 |
| Hartzi | Smar: much better | 10:20 |
| Smar | Hartzi: also I don’t really think that would be feasible | 10:20 |
| tortoisedoc | about codebase | 10:20 |
| Smar | Hartzi: to me sell is worse word :P | 10:20 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: codebase is perpendicular to that question though | 10:20 |
| Hartzi | Smar: He's maniac. :P | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: yeah, but anyway, yes, they are | 10:20 |
| tbr | *nod* | 10:20 |
| Smar | Hartzi: hence selling something with equal terms is bound to turn bad ;) | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | HADK implies non-commercial usage but i think that's fair | 10:20 |
| tbr | sure | 10:21 |
| birdzhang | ￥1399.00 | 10:21 |
| TemeV | tortoisedoc: so why bother when I could buy something that is more easily available | 10:21 |
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| tortoisedoc | TemeV : its more close to jolla tablet? :P | 10:22 |
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| Stskeeps | tbr: i have a wet dream to stuff it on https://developer.qualcomm.com/hardware/mdp-805 | 10:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:22 |
| tbr | .oO(should have ordered that 90$ 6" tablet on aliexpress when it was cheap..." | 10:22 |
| TemeV | tortoisedoc: could be, though I don't see what difference does that make | 10:23 |
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| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libcontentaction/blob/master/rpm/libcontentaction-qt5.spec version here is 0.2.3 | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | tortoisedoc: it's automatically updated by tar_git | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | based on the tag | 10:23 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : on device tho pkcon get-packages is 0.2.6? | 10:23 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: that being a dev device it's probably insanely expensive | 10:23 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: also a 64bit 8xx series SoC could be interesting | 10:24 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : ok but is it latest-latest-hot-cake-from-owen? :) | 10:24 |
| tbr | who's Owen? ;) | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: 800 usd yeah | 10:24 |
| tbr | not as expensive as I thought :D | 10:24 |
| TemeV | unclde Owen? | 10:24 |
| TemeV | *uncle | 10:24 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : how many 0wen's are there | 10:24 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 10:24 |
| tbr | obviously: Owen is a baker | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: or this monster: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/21/exopcs-40-inch-multitouch-exodesk-is-coming-in-2012-for-1-299/ | 10:25 |
| tortoisedoc | :D | 10:25 |
| * tortoisedoc shrugs | 10:25 | |
| tortoisedoc | damn innovation going the wrong wya | 10:25 |
| tortoisedoc | *way | 10:25 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: I think in this size category I'd either go with a split or completely set up my own thing | 10:26 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: think touchscreen display or rear projection table | 10:26 |
| * tbr looks at the huge glass pane with white backside and his 1080p projector and goes *hmmmmm* | 10:26 | |
| tbr | (MSFT demonstrated this with some sort of camera tracking a while ago) | 10:27 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps:reposted in #mer | 10:28 |
| tortoisedoc | (should have posted there in the first place deh) | 10:28 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: if you want to play with such stuff, get a TORSBY or GLASHOLM table :) | 10:29 |
| * tbr has a TORSBY acting as a white board, very nice hack | 10:30 | |
| SfietKonstantinW | tbr: can you "draw" on that table ? | 10:32 |
| tbr | SfietKonstantinW: I use whiteboard markers, yes | 10:33 |
| tbr | nothing electronic about my current use case | 10:33 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ah | 10:33 |
| SfietKonstantinW | so no screen under the glass to project something | 10:33 |
| tbr | I was saying thought that it would be easy to convert it | 10:33 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ah | 10:33 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ok | 10:34 |
| SfietKonstantinW | thought you already converted it | 10:34 |
| tbr | http://www.ikeahackers.net/2012/01/not-expensive-glass-whiteboard.html | 10:34 |
| SfietKonstantinW | wow nice | 10:35 |
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| tbr | if someone wants to sponsor me a TORSBY underframe and a mirror, then I'd be happy to make that experiment | 10:36 |
| tbr | hmm, looks like I'd have to remove 2 struts, oh well, still doable | 10:36 |
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| tbr | ah, instructions show that the struts could be easily omitted | 10:39 |
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| tbr | so if someone feels like sending me 80€ + money for a mirror and maybe one of those tracker things the xbox has | 10:41 |
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| tortoisedoc | tbr : ebay? :P | 10:42 |
| tortoisedoc | why do you need a camera btw | 10:42 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: input device, or do you have a good idea how else to do that? | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | and btw, the kinect (xbox camera) only works at 24fps barely | 10:43 |
| tortoisedoc | so you want to project on the whiteboard and use camera for motion detection? | 10:43 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: no, that would be building one of those rear projection tables | 10:44 |
| tortoisedoc | aha | 10:44 |
| tortoisedoc | we did some proof of concept with kinetic and oculus some time ago | 10:45 |
| tortoisedoc | but it worked like Sh*t because of the crappy quality of the kinetic camera | 10:45 |
| the_mgt | somebody did inputtracking with a wii remote. and an ir pen. that doesnt help you much, I guess | 10:46 |
| tortoisedoc | hah a wiimote | 10:47 |
| tbr | IIRC the microsoft surface table (name?) used an IR camera mounted below the table next to the projector and could distinguish finger touches on the glass surface | 10:48 |
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| Helle_ | yep, same as nearly every other touch table | 10:51 |
| Helle_ | tbr: it btw was just called the Microsoft Surface | 10:51 |
| Helle_ | which then got reused for the tablets | 10:51 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | tbr: the surface table was called "surface" before the surface was cool | 10:53 |
| tbr | yes, it got rebranded to pixelsense, which was always the name of the sensor apparently | 10:53 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ah | 10:54 |
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| SfietKonstantinW | name clashing is always good | 10:54 |
| SfietKonstantinW | ... | 10:54 |
| SfietKonstantinW | (not) | 10:54 |
| tortoisedoc | surface is surface | 10:56 |
| tortoisedoc | M$ cant copyright that:P | 10:56 |
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| tbr | I'm pretty sure they trademarked it though | 10:57 |
| Helle_ | tbr: well, that's a fun trademark to try to uphold | 10:58 |
| Helle_ | they have been referred to as "surface" since the first ones where hacked up | 10:58 |
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| tbr | depends, if they used "microsoft surface" then it's easier | 10:58 |
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| dist | How many actually got their tablets? | 11:00 |
| tbr | 100-200 is the guess | 11:01 |
| dist | So, about 13000 euros per tablet? (if only indiegogo is taken into account) | 11:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I did not get my tablet. I'm not 100% happy about it, but even if I don't, I consider it a worthwhile investment into open-source. | 11:03 |
| tbr | and about 2 apples per kiloparsec | 11:03 |
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| the_mgt | sdsd | 11:08 |
| the_mgt | sorry | 11:08 |
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| tabasko | is that hygrometer under back cover left from camera lens? | 11:21 |
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| tabasko | I noticed mine has turned red :E | 11:21 |
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| ggabriel | tabasko: yes, that means that that was in contact with water | 11:23 |
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| tabasko | ggabriel: daymn :c | 11:23 |
| tabasko | why I did took it with me to sauna room | 11:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Or internal condensation | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | tabasko: or humidity detector | 11:24 |
| ggabriel | lol | 11:24 |
| ggabriel | never thought about taking the phone to the sauna | 11:24 |
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| tbr | a very binary "peak hold" hygrometer if you insist on the term. | 11:26 |
| ggabriel | tabasko: but the phone works? | 11:26 |
| Nicd- | sauna?! :D | 11:27 |
| Nicd- | just... why | 11:27 |
| ggabriel | saunas can be quite boring | 11:27 |
| Nicd- | the point is relaxation | 11:28 |
| tabasko | ggabriel: works mostly but it does have some random reboots and complains that it cant charge when plugged in | 11:28 |
| Nicd- | not browsing facebook | 11:28 |
| ggabriel | tabasko: put it in rice maybe | 11:28 |
| tabasko | might be too late | 11:28 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: ouch, I should have never gone in with beer then :S | 11:28 |
| ggabriel | never late to try :P | 11:28 |
| tabasko | And no, I didnt take phone in actual sauna. Only room where you take your clothes off | 11:28 |
| tabasko | but that was bit moist place too | 11:29 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: many people would consider having a beer relaxing | 11:29 |
| tabasko | ggabriel: not good idea, beer gets hot and who likes hot beer | 11:29 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: ;); tabasko: this is why I got drunk very quickly then, by drinking the beer fast | 11:30 |
| ggabriel | anyway, do try rice, | 11:30 |
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| PaulePanter | Looks like, the date in the file name got tossed around: http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | PaulePanter: CDN is acting up | 11:37 |
| * tbr likes how that was written in ms-word and generated on osx... | 11:38 | |
| tbr | (yeah, yeah, he's marketing, but still) | 11:38 |
| * Stskeeps has a osx desktop, laptop and will kill himself if he has to use libreoffice for anything again. | 11:39 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:39 |
| ggabriel | tbr: I use linux and yet I need to use MS* stuff just to share with the world | 11:39 |
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| tbr | Stskeeps: you have to admit, that it shouldn't be harder to get the same styling in lowriter than in word.app | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: it shouldn't be | 11:40 |
| ggabriel | one of my friends, who works in IT a lot, famours words: "apple products raise the quality of your work at no extra cost" | 11:41 |
| PaulePanter | Stskeeps: Which LibreOffice version did you try last? Are you using Pages and Numbers? | 11:41 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulePanter: no, i use microsoft word when i have to use that | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | and libreoffice quite recent | 11:42 |
| PaulePanter | I see. | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | and at same time i do OSS software. | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:42 |
| PaulePanter | In my opinion, that’s better than Pages and/or Numbers, as these formats are even more “incompatible” as DOC(X) stuff. | 11:42 |
| * Stskeeps would really like the world to move to something like early-access.notion.so | 11:43 | |
| Stskeeps | er, http://early-access.notion.so | 11:43 |
| the_mgt | I do share the hatred for Libre Office | 11:45 |
| noume | I like it how MS Office works better on Linux than libreoffice does... | 11:45 |
| noume | it takes less RAM and gives better performance | 11:46 |
| the_mgt | LO is quite ok as a viewer, but the writing part kills me. be it the excel or word part | 11:46 |
| PaulePanter | noume: Using an emulator? | 11:47 |
| noume | I'm using Codeweavers | 11:48 |
| pp_ | office for mac <3 (except that it only seems to get "critical updates", and those are every few weeks) | 11:49 |
| Nicd- | LO could be heaps better (it has improved in the recent years though after the loooong stagnation under Sun), but I manage my basic writing tasks just fine | 11:50 |
| Nicd- | currently writing my thesis with it | 11:50 |
| noume | still i'm curious about the future of Jolla and Sailfish OS. Is it likely that it will be fully released as OSS so the community may continue to work on it even if Jolla may eventually file bankrupt? | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | noume: i think it's a bit more unclear now that decisions has to be made together with creditors. | 11:50 |
| noume | Methinks, Libreoffice has improved a ton after the fork but it stall has a long way to go | 11:51 |
| pp_ | for thesis-like stuff latex is a winner imho | 11:51 |
| rigo | anybody a clue whether jolla continues to sell phones during protection? | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: we do, it seems | 11:51 |
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| rigo | \o? | 11:51 |
| rigo | \o/ | 11:51 |
| pp_ | sold out, it seems | 11:51 |
| noume | I've used scribus for heavy editing with some success. Results at least look much better than even with MS Word | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-jolla.html/ | 11:51 |
| pp_ | oh, they got more | 11:51 |
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| noume | Stskeeps: i have the best of wishes for the new financing round. Though SFOS has quite a few bugs still unadressed, it is quite ready for the market. Let's hope it will not fail in the hands of some shady investment company that kills it | 11:55 |
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| noume | *fall | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | let's how the world turns out | 11:55 |
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| Milo- | oh come on. this guy knows how to solve the problem: https://together.jolla.com/question/122667/feedback-cost-cutting-funding-suggestions/ | 12:03 |
| Milo- | Replace competent developers with fresh graduates from indian universities! | 12:03 |
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| Milo- | Also, you got to stop paying any money to your managers until further notice! | 12:04 |
| * Stskeeps ponders to go downstairs to buy some beer | 12:05 | |
| cehteh | jolla management/board/whatever will now *exactly* look at TJC for advices how to proceed :D | 12:07 |
| cehteh | anyway i'd like the idea if jolla becomes a cooperative where people can buy in .. as long they get heared when they vote on something | 12:08 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: it's always beer-o-clock - somewhere | 12:09 |
| Milo- | You can't mention indians without thinking about IPA. | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | tbr: well, it's unclear who would enforce a company alcohol policy at this point :p | 12:10 |
| * trigpoint likes an IPA | 12:11 | |
| tbr | Stskeeps: also if you are on HOC, when are you on the clock? ;) | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | (HOC?) | 12:11 |
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| tbr | Home Office Connection | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yeah | 12:11 |
| tbr | old Nokia term | 12:11 |
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| tortoisedoc | tabasko : try a hairdryer | 12:25 |
| tortoisedoc | Stskeeps : rum, not beer, RUM | 12:28 |
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| tortoisedoc | just wondering, do we have then a doomsday now in december | 12:29 |
| tortoisedoc | to refer to | 12:29 |
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| tortoisedoc | for jolla to definitely shut the doors (*shrug*) or keep on running? | 12:29 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: those indicators are usually irreversible. As they are meant to indicate if something _ever_ was moist. | 12:30 |
| lainwir3d | tortoisedoc: or whisky ! | 12:31 |
| tortoisedoc | tbr : huh? Why would you put such a thing in a device? | 12:31 |
| tortoisedoc | lainwir3d : damn no RUm for starters! | 12:31 |
| tbr | tortoisedoc: "warranty void if this label is pink" | 12:32 |
| tortoisedoc | lolz | 12:32 |
| tortoisedoc | of course | 12:32 |
| lainwir3d | well, anything you prefer for starters :-) | 12:32 |
| * tortoisedoc facepalsm | 12:32 | |
| lainwir3d | I like both anyway | 12:32 |
| tortoisedoc | sounds like a deal! Where do we meet for the rum :D | 12:32 |
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| tbr | tortoisedoc: apple was infamous for having very sensitive indicators at some point. the ambient sweat in your pocket was supposedly enough to set some of them off | 12:33 |
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| tortoisedoc | heh; how to fuck customers #1 eh | 12:33 |
| tortoisedoc | apologies for the sillogism | 12:33 |
| lainwir3d | :) | 12:35 |
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| pdanek2 | Micromax should soon release 4G memory phone, their new flagship called Yu Yutopia. | 12:40 |
| pdanek2 | GB* | 12:40 |
| pdanek2 | With Cyanogen. | 12:40 |
| Devaux1 | Xiaomi Mi4c is on sale | 12:41 |
| pdanek2 | Sailfish was supposed to be the Intex's answer to Micromax <> Cyanogen cooperation. | 12:41 |
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| tortoisedoc | pdanek2 : so not anything small | 12:43 |
| pp_ | tbr: I cleaned the screen of a macbook air, display broken, not covered by applecare due to moisture... meh | 12:44 |
| tbr | yah, fun | 12:44 |
| tortoisedoc | you wish | 12:45 |
| tortoisedoc | wife bought lumia 850 | 12:45 |
| tortoisedoc | 90€ | 12:45 |
| tortoisedoc | three weeks screen cracks in her pocket | 12:45 |
| tortoisedoc | repair was either 140€ for repair, or 40 € shipping only (in case they pay the part) | 12:45 |
| tortoisedoc | seller told to buy new phone | 12:46 |
| tortoisedoc | wtf | 12:46 |
| pp_ | purchase protection insurance with credit card has been useful, for 6 months you get money back (-40e) for anything like that | 12:47 |
| tortoisedoc | pp_ : aha | 12:47 |
| tortoisedoc | thanks for the hint | 12:47 |
| tortoisedoc | but is ppi something extra you have ontop of the card? | 12:48 |
| pp_ | finnish banks often have it (mine is op, nordea used to have even better conditions) | 12:48 |
| flux | was it in her back pocket, perchance :P | 12:54 |
| tortoisedoc | that's not what I said :P | 12:55 |
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| flux | you didn't discount that alternative either ;-) | 13:03 |
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| tortoisedoc | flux : now that's what you said :P | 13:07 |
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| trigpoint | credit cards have purchase protection, but its not valid if the payment goes through paypal | 13:30 |
| tortoisedoc | trigpoint : how about bank cards? | 13:30 |
| trigpoint | not debit cards, only credit | 13:30 |
| tortoisedoc | ogh | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | or, o great help then :P | 13:34 |
| tortoisedoc | one reason to buy with cc i guess | 13:34 |
| trigpoint | it is, the main reason i have one | 13:35 |
| trigpoint | but you loose the protection if you use paypal | 13:36 |
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| ggabriel | well, depends | 13:38 |
| ggabriel | sometimes paypal is the payment provider, in which case you don't lose anything | 13:38 |
| trigpoint | paypal is ok for small stuff as cc protection only comes in, in the uk at least, at gbp100 | 13:38 |
| citylight2 | did anyone try to run sailos on nexsus 5x? | 13:39 |
| ggabriel | you lose protection if you use paypal's account, which can get money from your bank account, credit card, debit card, etc.. | 13:39 |
| trigpoint | http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/PayPal-Section75 | 13:40 |
| trigpoint | so if buying something like jolla, pay by cc, not paypal | 13:41 |
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| tortoisedoc | cc? | 13:43 |
| tortoisedoc | ah credit card :D | 13:44 |
| trigpoint | :) | 13:44 |
| flux | doesn't paypal provide protection as well? | 13:45 |
| flux | oh, right, the link covers those protections :) | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | well paypal has their own protection system | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | and terms | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | this world is becoming a terms world | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | yes but only IF and IF and IF and IF | 13:46 |
| tortoisedoc | wtf | 13:46 |
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| flux | well, it's partially because some people try to scam as much as they can. so they try to plug each loop hole. | 13:47 |
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| tortoisedoc | flux : it was meant in general | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | not only specific to paypal | 13:53 |
| flux | I think it's also true in general :-) | 13:53 |
| tortoisedoc | flux : you are missing the point; the idea of this whole thing is about being free; and here we are excluding one by one, incrementing limits :P | 13:56 |
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| tortoisedoc | *one by one possible ways to handle | 14:04 |
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| ggabriel | tortoisedoc: paypal's "protection" system is a joke | 14:05 |
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| pdanek | Do you think tablets was good idea? | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 14:10 |
| pdanek | Or Jolla should have rarther invested in new phone? | 14:10 |
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| tortoisedoc | I think given the feedback on the tablet its a more viable way than phones | 14:11 |
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| Lieke_ | my jolla phone still works nicely, so i wouldn't have bought a new phone | 14:11 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | well, I'm not so sure in retrospect | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | we wouldn't have gotten the sailfishos 2.0 attention w/o it | 14:11 |
| dr_gogeta86 | Stskeeps, not enough ... | 14:12 |
| dr_gogeta86 | peps want money .. | 14:12 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | giiven that the end goal still seems to be lcensing to phone manufacturers | 14:12 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | the os might not as flexible, x86 and tablet ready | 14:13 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | but might have have been more polshed | 14:13 |
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| pdanek | I'm wondering. | 15:04 |
| pdanek | Windows Phone became more gesture based, iOS too, Blackberry is long time... | 15:05 |
| pdanek | Why Android didn't become gesture based yet? | 15:05 |
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| ggabriel | ios gesture based? windows phone? what are those buttons for then? :P | 15:10 |
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| coderus | W10M gesture based, wutthe only gesture i know is for switching panes | 15:15 |
| coderus | but its not the gesture, just swipe | 15:15 |
| ggabriel | ok, technically, tapping the touchscreen is a gesture | 15:16 |
| coderus | lockscreen unlock swipe, which used everywhere | 15:16 |
| coderus | tapping is an action in this world | 15:16 |
| coderus | gesture is movement | 15:16 |
| coderus | touch/pointer click is never became a gesture :D | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | according to the dictionary, gesture is an action (among other things) | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | action with the body, even | 15:17 |
| coderus | technical dictiouary about UI/UX terms? :P | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | so, yeah, all mobile os's are gesture based | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | ui/ux can't have their own dictionary :P | 15:17 |
| coderus | sure it can | 15:17 |
| ggabriel | but i'm being cynical ofc | 15:18 |
| ggabriel | ios is as gesture based as my shower | 15:18 |
| coderus | but well, any mobile os have flickables, pinch areas and etc, so yes, all is gesture based :) | 15:18 |
| twaapo | hey, is there a reference for fingerterm gestures somewhere? | 15:18 |
| coderus | last not gesture based os was WM6.5 with stylus, where you need to tap small scrollbar buttons, etc | 15:18 |
| ggabriel | twaapo: only up/down/left/right that I know of? or you mean how to configure them? | 15:19 |
| twaapo | thats a plus | 15:19 |
| ggabriel | there's documentation somewhere | 15:19 |
| ggabriel | tried tjc? | 15:19 |
| twaapo | like it sends alt+left if i tap at rightside+leftside | 15:19 |
| twaapo | i think? | 15:19 |
| twaapo | dunno whats a tjc | 15:20 |
| twaapo | ah | 15:20 |
| ggabriel | together.jolla.com | 15:20 |
| twaapo | that tjc | 15:20 |
| twaapo | :D | 15:20 |
| twaapo | well i tried google several times during the last year or so | 15:20 |
| ggabriel | that's why you fail | 15:21 |
| ggabriel | don't use google | 15:21 |
| twaapo | hehe | 15:21 |
| ggabriel | fwiw https://github.com/nemomobile/fingerterm | 15:21 |
| ggabriel | I cannot remember where I read how to configure it | 15:21 |
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| twaapo | did you find a reference for the hex code things for ctrl+ stuff too? \xwhatever? | 15:22 |
| twaapo | i think i did as well actually but lost it | 15:22 |
| ggabriel | i normally get the hex code from this X sniffer | 15:23 |
| ggabriel | what was the name again :P | 15:23 |
| ggabriel | xev | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | but then I had issues and somebody said what to do | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | I think I used tmo for help too | 15:24 |
| twaapo | ah yea i meant the \\e[] stuff in the fingerterm settings.ini for gestures | 15:24 |
| twaapo | hmm | 15:24 |
| twaapo | thats like pgdown tho | 15:24 |
| ggabriel | ok, so you now know/remember more than I do :D | 15:25 |
| twaapo | i remember that one bit cause i changed it like year ago | 15:26 |
| twaapo | still dont know how some of the gestures work tho :D | 15:26 |
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| * SkyFall keeps refreshing jolla blog and jolla.com/press rapidly after being told jolla may close | 16:57 | |
| r0kk3rz | im sure we will hear one way or another | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | not dead. | 16:59 |
| M4rtinK_phone_ | SkyFall: so it is *your* fault the sky is falling! ;-) | 17:00 |
| SkyFall | I knew chosing that nick will pay off, but didn't know when xD | 17:01 |
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| daitheflu | each time you refresh, the communication is delayed for another 2 weeks :P | 17:05 |
| r0kk3rz | that meme just doesn't want to die does it :p | 17:06 |
| Mikaela | How about using RSS feed which it most likely has? | 17:07 |
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| daitheflu | r0kk3rz: of course it doesn't, it's a meme ;) | 17:07 |
| ggabriel | Mikaela: need money for that :P | 17:10 |
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| Mikaela | ? | 17:11 |
| ggabriel | rss feed | 17:11 |
| Nicd- | SkyFall: https://blog.jolla.com/feed/ | 17:12 |
| r0kk3rz | every refresh gets jolla 0.00001€ more into debt | 17:12 |
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| Nicd- | r0kk3rz: in that case they have made some really shitty deals with their hosting providers :P | 17:13 |
| ggabriel | arguably you can always refresh the rss feed a zillion times | 17:13 |
| Mikaela | I have never heard of paid RSS feeds | 17:13 |
| Mikaela | Or was that the joke? | 17:13 |
| daitheflu | Mikaela: I guess ggabriel was joking :) | 17:14 |
| ggabriel | Mikaela: nah, I proposed that jolla would need money to implement rss feed in their blog, but then I didn't know they already had one | 17:14 |
| Mikaela | Oh | 17:14 |
| ggabriel | time to add to tidings, since i'm here | 17:14 |
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| Morpog | Anyone can tell me latest sailfishos tablet relase number? So I can update to it via version --dup | 18:33 |
| Morpog | I fear the servers get offline.... | 18:34 |
| eugenio | it should be the same of the phone, I guess | 18:36 |
| eugenio | 2.0.0.10 | 18:36 |
| Morpog | eugenio, that I have already, I'm speaking about unreleased stuff | 18:36 |
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| eugenio | oh, AFAIK there aren't unreleased releases floating around in public | 18:37 |
| coderus | Morpog: no EA yet, due to jolla problem, you know | 18:44 |
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| Morpog | coderus, well I thought, maybe someone pushed it accidentally on his last working hours there :D | 18:50 |
| TemeV | if they have something to push there... | 18:52 |
| TemeV | something even closely stable I mean | 18:52 |
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| coderus | should be | 18:54 |
| coderus | but i'm afaraid the person responsible for ea is laid off :D | 18:54 |
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| pp_ | 2.0.1.3 or whatnot was mentioned on some mailing list, but there's no public repo for it :P | 19:04 |
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| coderus | it's some internal release | 19:14 |
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| cehteh | oh phones are back in stock | 19:53 |
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| Aciid | ahahh these people planning again against jolla in the blog | 20:04 |
| Aciid | didn't they read that they funded jolla hk | 20:05 |
| Aciid | not jolla fi | 20:05 |
| Aciid | "Can all of us almost 12000 backers or less make an online signing campaign and submit it to the Finnish Authorities, Indiegogo, Paypal for action against Jolla? Any advice would be welcome & if someone from Finland can give more inputs about local laws, that would be great" | 20:05 |
| Aciid | :DDD | 20:05 |
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| kimmoli | IGG style crowdfunding is already against finnish laws | 20:08 |
| tbr | that's why jolla hk | 20:09 |
| Aciid | yes I think they knew what they were doing :D | 20:09 |
| Aciid | but the haters are not catching up | 20:09 |
| cehteh | how much did they collect so far? | 20:10 |
| Aciid | 2.5mil€ from IGG | 20:10 |
| Aciid | and something undisclosed via pre-orders | 20:10 |
| cehteh | not that bad | 20:10 |
| phlixi_ | its pretty useless to fight for some of ou r money if jolla doesnt deliver | 20:10 |
| phlixi_ | if there is no money left, then there is no money left... | 20:11 |
| Aciid | they can just pull the plug if something would really build up | 20:11 |
| Aciid | finnish custom | 20:11 |
| Aciid | "oh debt collectors, better go bankrupt | 20:11 |
| phlixi_ | ...and a cause will not generate more money (actually it would burn) | 20:11 |
| Aciid | but in neckbeard logic it's completely the opposite | 20:11 |
| Aciid | in neckbeard logic, you file a lawsuit against something then all your friends join, you sue for well something since you want that tablet | 20:12 |
| Aciid | because it has caused you a ) bodily harm b ) anxieity | 20:12 |
| phlixi_ | such neckbeard has tro be pretty stupid | 20:13 |
| phlixi_ | has to be | 20:13 |
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| Aciid | and surely it ends up like pistorius, all televizd and youll be a celebrity afterwards!!! | 20:13 |
| phlixi_ | well | 20:13 |
| phlixi_ | that sounds, i dont have words for such idiotic stuff | 20:14 |
| phlixi_ | preeeety silly | 20:14 |
| phlixi_ | or just dumb as fuck | 20:14 |
| cehteh | customer support got layed of first? .. i send a mail yesterday about my return/refund (asking about postponing it) and got no reply today :> | 20:14 |
| Aciid | but thats whats going down at blog.jolla.com comments :D | 20:14 |
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| phlixi_ | i guess those "neckbeards" (what is that actually?) are immune to logic | 20:16 |
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| kimmoli | also all the post igg pre-orders are by Jolla Mobile Ltd (HK). only phones are by Jolla Ltd/Oy (FI) eventhough they almost share same webshop | 20:21 |
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| sakustar | so anyone got a jollablet in finland? | 20:25 |
| kimmoli | \o/ | 20:25 |
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| sakustar | id like a swipe please | 20:27 |
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| Shinryuu | is it possible to do mac filtering with tethering? | 21:52 |
| tbr | huh, why would you need that? | 21:53 |
| Shinryuu | well, I just want to experiment with somehing | 21:53 |
| phlixi_ | e.g. to prevent a device from automatically (trying) to connect | 21:53 |
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| tbr | look at arptables | 21:55 |
| Shinryuu | oki! | 21:55 |
| tbr | you'll likely have to build modules or the kernel and the user space management binaries | 21:56 |
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| phlixi_ | my android support kinda randomly stopped working (didnt install anything or the like) | 22:03 |
| phlixi_ | any ideas how to fix? searching tjc turned up various threads suggesting reinstall of android support and apps... | 22:04 |
| phlixi_ | ...unfortunately that didnt work | 22:04 |
| phlixi_ | if possible i would like to not do a factory reset | 22:06 |
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