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| Stskeeps | goooood morning vietnam | 05:35 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | :P | 05:35 |
| jolo | tune up the volume! the morning show's gonna start! rock&roll! ;) | 05:36 |
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| sjn | yay! | 05:49 |
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| tiwake | interesting | 06:35 |
| tiwake | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Jolla-Debt-Restructuring | 06:35 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf | 06:36 |
| tiwake | whats the root issue? | 06:36 |
| tiwake | or is it a bunch of little ones | 06:36 |
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| jolo | anyone know something about sailfish on fairphone 2? | 06:40 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: 'it costs a lot more to make a OS than people might immediately release' | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | 'realize' | 06:41 |
| tiwake | Stskeeps: well sure, there was what, 100ish employees? working on it for a few years | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 06:41 |
| Stskeeps | now imagine how much money tizen or firefox os or nokia sunk into their projects. | 06:42 |
| tiwake | I don't know anything about those | 06:42 |
| pp_ | not to mention intel and microsoft :-) | 06:42 |
| Stskeeps | with 1000+ employees. | 06:43 |
| Moo-Crumpus | and os2 and beos ... | 06:43 |
| Stskeeps | so in that regard, we've done well for little amount of money | 06:43 |
| tiwake | thats pretty typical for smaller companies | 06:44 |
| ArtVandalae | Sammy too. Apple and Google too. *IMO* technologically speaking, the big 2 don't even appear to be that far ahead | 06:44 |
| tiwake | is jolla just not getting enough bites yet on licensing like they thought they would? | 06:45 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: the awkard thing about business today is that nobody cares about income until very late in process; you have to show scale and a business model | 06:45 |
| Stskeeps | but sometimes financing slips, and shit happes | 06:46 |
| Stskeeps | ns | 06:46 |
| * sjn wonders if he'll get his tablet :-\ | 06:46 | |
| * Stskeeps hopes people do | 06:46 | |
| * sjn saw it for the first time last week | 06:47 | |
| tiwake | in what context? jolla not caring about income until late in the process? | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: as in, if the business model makes sense at let's say, 1000000 users | 06:47 |
| * sjn liked it | 06:47 | |
| Stskeeps | then it's normal not to make a profit until very late | 06:47 |
| tiwake | oh, yeah | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | and that's when the big investments usually come in | 06:47 |
| Stskeeps | as to help you scale | 06:47 |
| jaacoppi | Stskeeps: isn't that called gambling? | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | jaacoppi: welcome to modern business. | 06:48 |
| tiwake | yeah, that | 06:48 |
| tiwake | lol | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | it's the reason why cyanogenmod as an example got so much investment | 06:48 |
| tiwake | modern business building | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | they have a lot of users | 06:48 |
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| Stskeeps | so there's a potential for business | 06:48 |
| Moo-Crumpus | stskeeps what do you know? | 06:48 |
| Stskeeps | Moo-Crumpus: oh god, where do i start.. :p | 06:48 |
| Moo-Crumpus | ok... | 06:49 |
| Stskeeps | sjn: the tablet started out on my table, did the first moves to get sailfishos on the prototype and happy to see that at least some people that backed it have it now | 06:49 |
| sjn | Stskeeps: cool. good to know "someone in the know" hangs out here too :) | 06:50 |
| tiwake | yeah | 06:50 |
| Stskeeps | sjn: there's plenty of sailors here. | 06:50 |
| Moo-Crumpus | i love my phone and would live to get my tablet :( | 06:50 |
| tiwake | http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/11/after-raising-record-3-4m-on-kickstarter-uk-drone-startup-collapses/ | 06:51 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: i think it's a good time to start looking into ethereum's trustless crowdfunding at this point :P | 06:51 |
| tiwake | Stskeeps: whatcha talking about? | 06:51 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: ah.. sec | 06:51 |
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| Stskeeps | tiwake: imagine for a moment you could do a crowdfunding that wasn't actually managed by a person or people (who are falliable), but by a smart contract | 06:52 |
| tiwake | not understanding smart contract | 06:53 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: hosted in a blockchain like environment, so it'd be executed by a network of independent computers | 06:53 |
| Stskeeps | smart contract is a piece of code :) | 06:53 |
| tiwake | then way not say AI? | 06:53 |
| Stskeeps | because it's stupid intelligence :p | 06:53 |
| Stskeeps | just code that runs, but does it reliably and decentralized | 06:54 |
| tiwake | AI is stupid, for sure | 06:54 |
| Stskeeps | https://www.ethereum.org/crowdsale | 06:54 |
| Stskeeps | could even make constructs that if a product isn't delivered to people, the tokens or the money received become worthless | 06:55 |
| tiwake | oh, hmm | 06:55 |
| FireFly | Hmm, that sounds interesting | 06:56 |
| Stskeeps | it is. | 06:56 |
| tiwake | fake money, but really more like an escrow... for lots of people | 06:57 |
| tiwake | its not really fake money though | 06:57 |
| Stskeeps | could build very interesting projects that way | 06:58 |
| FireFly | The question is, how do you tie the token to a physical product? I mean, how do you prevent both the seller and buyer unable to lie? | 06:58 |
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| Stskeeps | FireFly: well, that's always the challenge | 06:59 |
| Stskeeps | you could have mutually trusted oracles | 06:59 |
| tiwake | its hard to build off of that when most of the time such kickstarting things require tooling (molds, whatever) that are rather expensive to be bought | 06:59 |
| Stskeeps | or in extreme cases, fedex | 06:59 |
| tiwake | cant do that without the kickstarter money | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | FireFly: or backers could vote if this is the product they wanted | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | tiwake: sure, but then you could take another model, that you can pull out at any time, if the project isn't living up to it's promises, or progress | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | so your ability to take out money becomes less over time | 07:00 |
| tiwake | that would require a different currency though wouldent it? | 07:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, not sure | 07:01 |
| FireFly | Hmm, voting is tricky though. If one party represents at least half the backers, they could lie and get their way anyway | 07:01 |
| tiwake | currencies are pretty useless unless everyone involved use it | 07:01 |
| FireFly | (I suppose) | 07:01 |
| FireFly | But interesting idea nonetheless | 07:02 |
| Stskeeps | i think these things could be a good way to do new models; and ensure consumer rights better | 07:02 |
| tiwake | though at the end of the day, its hard to beat the bartering power of a bottle of whiskey ;) | 07:03 |
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| Jope | 07:19 | |
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| * Moo-Crumpus not changing nick to nothing | 08:49 | |
| corvinux | Hi | 08:50 |
| Moo-Crumpus | holla | 08:52 |
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| Moo-Crumpus | Moo-Crumpus not changing nick to nothing | 08:55 |
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| AL13N | coderus: ok, i'm gonna try it | 09:27 |
| TemeV | what does system_server process do and why does it use 50% of cpu? | 09:30 |
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| Stskeeps | TemeV: alien dalvik's system_server | 09:31 |
| TemeV | Stskeeps: thanks. I restarted Android support and it seems to calm down now | 09:33 |
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| Lipevakala | First app not working. Truly Yours (ambiences) Can not find it from Store and im positive it was there before. OR has it but its not working, only loading forewer.,. | 09:45 |
| Nicd- | great, my USB developer mode has stopped working | 09:48 |
| AL13N | coderus: "ssu rr reposname" still has it in the disabled list | 09:48 |
| AL13N | how do i actually remove them? | 09:48 |
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| noume | Hai! | 09:50 |
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| AL13N | can someone send me his /etc/ssu/ssu.ini file? | 09:52 |
| AL13N | from the jolla phone? | 09:52 |
| AL13N | but without the password please | 09:52 |
| AL13N | i wish to compare it to mine | 09:52 |
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| AL13N | anyone? | 09:53 |
| tiwake | ponies | 09:53 |
| AL13N | :-( | 09:53 |
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| AL13N | Nicd-: Stskeeps: Lipevakala: tiwake: ? you guys have a jolla phone ? can you plz help me out a bit? | 09:54 |
| Stskeeps | i have a devel version ssu.ini so can't help you | 09:54 |
| AL13N | right | 09:55 |
| tiwake | all I have is ponies | 09:55 |
| AL13N | ponies are too expensive to maintain | 09:55 |
| Nicd- | AL13N: what do you need? | 09:55 |
| AL13N | Stskeeps: is it normal that ssu rr actually does not remove but just disables? | 09:55 |
| tiwake | twilight sparkle disagrees :P | 09:55 |
| AL13N | a /etc/ssu/ssu.ini (normal user one) | 09:55 |
| AL13N | without password please | 09:56 |
| AL13N | only the general section actually | 09:56 |
| Nicd- | k, wait | 09:56 |
| AL13N | maybe also the repository-url-variables | 09:56 |
| AL13N | Stskeeps: the ssu part, that's from mer too? any idea who is packaging that? or who is an expert on this? | 09:57 |
| AL13N | i have duplicate repositories which i can't seem to get rid of | 09:57 |
| Nicd- | AL13N: https://gist.github.com/Nicd/aef0b2c08f135dad1890 | 09:58 |
| yestoall | give me your email | 09:58 |
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| AL13N | Nicd-: thanks, big help, i see some oddnesses, i'm gonna try and fix | 09:59 |
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| AL13N | Nicd-: good news is, i got rid of double repos | 10:05 |
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| AL13N | bad news is refresh fails completely, i'm gonna try to remove account and add it back | 10:05 |
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| AL13N | ok, i got rid of the double repository, but still customer-jolla fails | 10:13 |
| AL13N | i'll disable it and start the 2.0 upgrade | 10:14 |
| AL13N | i'll probably fail | 10:14 |
| AL13N | we'll see | 10:14 |
| AL13N | damnit, still the same problem | 10:16 |
| AL13N | i'll retry with version | 10:16 |
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| AL13N | ok, i finally got it, re-enabled back customer-jolla and it works now | 10:49 |
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| yestoall_ | AL13N: glad it works now :-) | 11:23 |
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| gandrel | :q | 12:30 |
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| pa | is there any way to hack warehouse, and make it show all the results instead of only the first page? it's super annoying.. | 12:56 |
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| coderus | pa: change https://github.com/custodian/orn-warehouse/blob/master/qml/js/api-apps.js#L13 "apps" to "apps?pageSize=200" | 13:27 |
| coderus | similar here: https://github.com/custodian/orn-warehouse/blob/master/qml/js/api-apps.js#L47 | 13:27 |
| gandrel | hi, how to debug establishing network connection in Sailfish? | 13:28 |
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| cb400f | connman probably logs somewhere, have you tried restarting "network"? | 13:28 |
| gandrel | issue is that default route is not set for wlan | 13:29 |
| gandrel | for 3G workign without issues | 13:29 |
| gandrel | journal is not saying anything usefull | 13:30 |
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| ggabriel | ok, partner space is pretty cool | 13:32 |
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| gandrel | ? | 13:34 |
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| coderus | ggabriel: i dont like it so much. it zoomed out on jomescreen and all content is looking weird | 13:34 |
| ggabriel | gandrel: i've just got my stella birds thingy | 13:36 |
| ggabriel | coderus: admittedly ux could be better | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | but partner space with other half is a pretty cool concept | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | assuming this can be marketed/commercialised properly and so on | 13:37 |
| ggabriel | it will be off on my phone fwiw :P | 13:37 |
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| pa | coderus, thanks! | 14:28 |
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| ggabriel | sooo, random question, I have 2 jolla phones now and want to make the new one primary, so want to transfer all the data from old | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | I will dd p28 (making a backup of new p28 ofc) | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | should I expect any problem? I suppose IMEI and other physical things are stored elsewhere | 15:25 |
| ggabriel | I'm not sure where the lock code is stored though, but I know it so it shouldn't be a problem | 15:26 |
| eugenio | don't take my word for it, but since there are images of p28 around probably IMEI and such are on separated partitions | 15:26 |
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| cehteh | ggabriel: i'd just rsync the files, dd (or ddrescue) should work, but copies even unused blocks and you cant resume a operation when it breaks, plus the unique ids of the btrfs (if there are any) are suddenly not unique anymore | 16:13 |
| cehteh | also you get all btrfs accumulated cruft and fragmentation to the destination, while rsyncing would be more 'prime' | 16:14 |
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| eugenio | the uuid is not unique, 86180ca0-d351-4551-b262-22b49e1adf47 | 16:20 |
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| cehteh | yeah maybe all device are shipped with the same image, bit ugly but would work | 16:23 |
| cehteh | still there are enough other benefits for using rsync | 16:24 |
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| tiwake | I need to reflash my N900 | 17:47 |
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| locusf | ggabriel: its stored in the partition labeled 'security' | 17:55 |
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| coderus | ggabriel: dd works of course | 18:08 |
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| LMS | has sailfish os implemented taking screenshots? | 19:10 |
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| flux | lms, yes, there are screenshot apps in the store | 19:12 |
| kimmoli | or the cli way; https://together.jolla.com/question/39930/howto-take-a-screenshot-from-the-command-line/ | 19:13 |
| LMS | this is quite cool :D thanks | 19:15 |
| cehteh | any working 'location' alarm? | 19:19 |
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| cehteh | the android cruft is add-ridden and buggy | 19:20 |
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| M4rtinK | I think I saw something about built-in screenshot taking support | 19:42 |
| M4rtinK | maybe on the Mer gitweb dashboard | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | there's an app that triggers the screenshot functionality | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | lbt's | 19:42 |
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| kimmoli | (fwiw toholed has option for proximity screenshot, tohkbd has shortcut Sym+Ins for it) | 19:49 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/lipstick/merge_requests/7 | 19:50 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | something like that might be coming? | 19:50 |
| locusf | wasn't merged | 19:52 |
| locusf | so no | 19:52 |
| locusf | see the comments | 19:52 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | yes i know | 19:52 |
| HarhaanJohtaja | but still something like that might be coming | 19:54 |
| pdanek | wow | 19:55 |
| pdanek | I just finished watching Riot On Documentary | 19:55 |
| pdanek | I didn't know about Riot before | 19:55 |
| pdanek | except the Riot related to League of Legends | 19:55 |
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| Aciid | riot is the biggest documentary about the bubble | 21:37 |
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| pdanek | Why people posted video about Riot documentary before our Community meeting? | 21:58 |
| pdanek | Does Jolla have anything in common with Riot? | 21:59 |
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| narchie1 | yes | 22:04 |
| narchie1 | no tablets | 22:04 |
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| pdanek | What's the story of tablets? | 22:06 |
| pdanek | I wasn't following | 22:06 |
| pdanek | I thought Jolla started shipping already | 22:07 |
| Nicd- | only a few were shipped | 22:07 |
| Nicd- | now they are stopped | 22:07 |
| Nicd- | because no money | 22:08 |
| Nicd- | pretty bad that they have not told anyone that they are not shipping at all | 22:12 |
| Nicd- | except in one interview to a finnish newspaper | 22:12 |
| Nicd- | not even an update on their blog | 22:13 |
| pdanek | Nicd-: I thought money from tablets was dedicated for tablets | 22:16 |
| pdanek | not used for Sailfish development etc. | 22:16 |
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| Nicd- | the tablet money was nothing | 22:21 |
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| Nicd- | it was mostly to get more money from investors I think | 22:21 |
| pdanek | hm | 22:22 |
| pdanek | for employee salaries, they probably need about 4 mil. eur annually? | 22:24 |
| Hartzi | must be more | 22:24 |
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| narchie1 | it's all over | 22:35 |
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| phlixi_ | well, 4M/(100*12) = 3.3K. pdanek i doubt thats enough | 23:00 |
| phlixi_ | probably more like 10M | 23:00 |
| Hartzi | one M.Sci IT employee cost to a company 6k-10K eur per month in finland | 23:02 |
| phlixi_ | that would translate into 8-12M | 23:02 |
| Hartzi | yeah | 23:02 |
| phlixi_ | actually 7.2 to 10 :D | 23:04 |
| phlixi_ | actually 7.2 to 12 :D | 23:04 |
| phlixi_ | ...now without typos :D | 23:04 |
| Hartzi | 8 to 12 is close enough | 23:04 |
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| phlixi_ | that is without an office or whatever... (dont htink about hardware) | 23:05 |
| Hartzi | because the salaries are usually from 3000 eur to 5000 eur but a company must pay many many things what makes it 2x or 3x for a company | 23:06 |
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| Aciid | a employer in finland usually thinks the costs as "double the salary" and youll get your expenses | 23:07 |
| Aciid | and thats even not including what some places put into the working environment + benefits + all that crap that is out of the contracts. but usually salaries are what hurts the most | 23:07 |
| Aciid | designer offices and lounges ( hello nokia ) | 23:08 |
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| lpotter | there's heaps of expenses involved | 23:16 |
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| M4rtinK | also note that proper software development is hardly just developers | 23:19 |
| M4rtinK | you need developers | 23:19 |
| M4rtinK | but also QA | 23:19 |
| M4rtinK | and other related jobs like release engineering, admins/infra, documentation people, support people | 23:20 |
| M4rtinK | and that's just the engineering side | 23:20 |
| M4rtinK | so not counting marketing, sales, lawyers, finance, etc. | 23:20 |
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| lpotter | and paper pushers | 23:26 |
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